6/15 to 6/18

[VictimHelp]

But that's the big question, who is responsible, the mom? Was she tearing at him, was she giving him mental abuse for being with his dad, encouraging him to act in some way so she could be back together with him. I mean this all happened after he talked to mom.

Was it Vinnie? Oh but he's dead. And I doubt if he was the cause.

Some posters are assuming there was a cause and someone should be responsible. There was no abuse. The only person responsible for shooting the two men was CR.

A more likely scenario is the boy was manipulative and a patholological liar and that if he didn't get his way, WATCH OUT! Vinnie didn't let him get his way. The cause IMO was the boy. the person responsible IMO was the boy.

GB, you know as well as I do, that sometimes a person is defective, and no parent caused the defect.

[garcia]

VH, no reward poster up yet, no flyers, seems like the mom and family are uninterested in finding the "killers". I'm beginning to think there are no OTHER killers.

[dgfred]

Originally Posted by garcia

VH, no reward poster up yet, no flyers, seems like the mom and family are uninterested in finding the "killers". I'm beginning to think there are no OTHER killers.

Release ALL and EVERY piece of evidence, and any subsequent interviews with all concerned... and the search WILL be on. The job will be done by somebody, all they need is the evidence... not the little tidbits that MIGHT or COULD show the boy is responsible. What harm would it do to release all the evidence? Hmmmmmmmm I wonder.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally Posted by dgfred

Release ALL and EVERY piece of evidence, and any subsequent interviews with all concerned... and the search WILL be on. The job will be done by somebody, all they need is the evidence... not the little tidbits that MIGHT or COULD show the boy is responsible. What harm would it do to release all the evidence? Hmmmmmmmm I wonder.

Maybe someone should ask Wood or Brewer. They certainly know that is one of the reasons to take a plea to keep the intricate evidence against their client unknown so it will not further inflame the passions of the community.

imo

[dgfred]

Originally Posted by GentleBreeze

Maybe someone should ask Wood or Brewer. They certainly know that is one of the reasons to take a plea to keep the intricate evidence against their client unknown so it will not further inflame the passions of the community.

imo

That is not so. How could the community be more 'inflamed'? That's silly.
The 'reason' for taking the PLEA (if evidence was soooo good- do not offer plea) was to NOT take the chance of being charged later for a murder and to get the boy (soon hopefully) the care he needed. If LE is so sure of the right person, just release ALL the evidence, no one would hate the boy any more than they are already showing. If the entire community thinks he did it, then just release all the evidence, simple solution and no more questions.

[VictimHelp]

Originally Posted by GentleBreeze

Maybe someone should ask Wood or Brewer. They certainly know that is one of the reasons to take a plea to keep the intricate evidence against their client unknown so it will not further inflame the passions of the community.

imo

The reason they won't release any of the records is because he is a minor, and minors records are sealed. Not even his mom could get them to release the records. I'ld expect the courts to be very strict on that ruling.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally Posted by VictimHelp

The reason they won't release any of the records is because he is a minor, and minors records are sealed. Not even his mom could get them to release the records. I'ld expect the courts to be very strict on that ruling.

I don't think it is just because he is a minor but that is one of the reasons but when someone pleas their case out the detailed evidence against them is sealed once the plea is struck.

The only way the public may know some of the details is if the Judge stipulates the defendant has to give a statement of guilt and a brief review of what happened before the Judge accepts the plea deal. Other than that everything goes mum and the true evidence against the defendant is never known.

imo

[VictimHelp]

Originally Posted by dgfred

Release ALL and EVERY piece of evidence, and any subsequent interviews with all concerned... and the search WILL be on. The job will be done by somebody, all they need is the evidence... not the little tidbits that MIGHT or COULD show the boy is responsible. What harm would it do to release all the evidence? Hmmmmmmmm I wonder.

Hmmmmmm I wonder why MOM, grandpa, or grandma haven't put up one flyer or offered even a $10 reward to find the "killer". Why hasn't mom, grandma and grandpa asked the state to release the evidence if they think it is exonerating.....hmmm, I wonder. maybe they already know he's guilty.

[garcia]

Originally Posted by VictimHelp

Hmmmmmm I wonder why MOM, grandpa, or grandma haven't put up one flyer or offered even a $10 reward to find the "killer". Why hasn't mom, grandma and grandpa asked the state to release the evidence if they think it is exonerating.....hmmm, I wonder. maybe they already know he's guilty.

If I were CR's mom, I'ld be offering a reward to find the "killers". I'ld post it in town. I'ld hand out flyers. I'ld bug the St. Johns PD every day to find the killers. I'ld ask the evidence be released. I'ld meet the media every day. I certainly wouldn't violate conditions of release. I guess mom knows he's guilty.

[dgfred]

Originally Posted by garcia

I I were CR's mom, I'ld be offering a reward to find the "killers". I'ld post it in town. I'ld hand out flyers. I'ld bug the St. Johns PD every day to find the killers. I'ld ask the evidence be released. I certainly wouldn't violate conditions of release. I guess mom knows he's guilty.

Another silly bash. How/why would she hand out flyers? She is struggling just to survive. Why would anyone need to bug the PD, just release the evidence..... Just like they did BEFORE with the little bits that showed the boy 'could' have done it... not beyond a doubt. I guess she is trying to help her son, but that is just me. I don't see where she is violating conditions, except for seeing her friend which cannot be allowed. All the other things are hogwash imo.

[VictimHelp]

Originally Posted by Fep

Pray tell where the mom is going to get money to put up a reward for a lost poodle much less anything else. That is about as far fetched as you can get. If information is correct the Mom simply does not have extra money.

For some reason some posts by nics appear to be well written and intelligent but the same nic will some times type up pure nonsense.

Kind of a mystery or is it?

She can put up a poster without a reward if she has no money or the Romero family could put up a reward.

[tottenwess]

Originally Posted by garcia

If I were CR's mom, I'ld be offering a reward to find the "killers". I'ld post it in town. I'ld hand out flyers. I'ld bug the St. Johns PD every day to find the killers. I'ld ask the evidence be released. I'ld meet the media every day. I certainly wouldn't violate conditions of release. I guess mom knows he's guilty.

I'm just noticing that you and VictimHelp have the same problem of spelling "I'ld" (sic). It would lead me to believe that you are same person....Hmmmm

[dgfred]

Originally Posted by VictimHelp

Hmmmmmm I wonder why MOM, grandpa, or grandma haven't put up one flyer or offered even a $10 reward to find the "killer". Why hasn't mom, grandma and grandpa asked the state to release the evidence if they think it is exonerating.....hmmm, I wonder. maybe they already know he's guilty.

Uhhhhh, maybe not.
Are they allowed to speak about the case yet?
Why should they have to ask to release the evidence? If it is so solid, and absolutely shows the boy as the ONLY shooter, why not release it?
It couldn't harm anyone now, the boy has already pled, and it would confirm the boy's support that he is indeed the only suspect, and something had to have caused this, and help could be found somehow for the boy. As it is, with the blurry investigation and initial findings... nobody knows exactly what happened.

[VictimHelp]

In all cases, the mom and family are allowed to speak about the case to ask help to find the killers, as long as they don't give details of the case. What about the Ramsays and everyone else who went on daily talk shows. They said they couldn't comment on the case but they wanted to find the real killers and they offered rewards. The gag order only disallows comments on the evidence and the actual case.

Even if it were against the law, what mom wouldn't ask the media to help find a killer, punishment or not. If it were me and I though my child was innocent, I'ld be speaking out every day, and there would be a huge public outcry if they tried to shut me up.

[dgfred]

Originally Posted by R~O~S

What will happen will happen in this case going forward, I really don't have an opinion on what should or shouldn't happen. But..........

Weren't the conditions of release based on his mothers cooperation in complying with the conditions re school and restrictions for CR?

Isn't that the point? If she's not doing what she agreed to do, if she's taking him out of state without permission, if she's allowing him to miss school, isn't she out of compliance and therefore changes need to be made?

CR is a minor, he requires a guardian be it via confinement or a responsible adult willing to comply with the court orders. If none of this had happened he'd still need a guardian and his guardian would be held accountable for him and his behavior. From what I can see, based on the defense response, his mother is not in compliance. Therefore a hearing needs to be held to address those issues.

What has she not done, that you are 100% sure of?
Maybe she had permission.
Maybe school wasn't held that/those days.
Dugout mess is a bunch of nothing.
Gun issue is NOT an issue.
Only problem I can see is the friend, and whether she is having CR around him.
From what I can see the mother is in compliance, through a most difficult time in her life.

The silence has been un-deafened.

[eagargal]

Just an FYI, per the court calendar tomorrow's proceedings are via teleconference. I can't imagine anything substantive happening if that is the case. IMO.

http://www.apacheclerk.net/calendar.htm

[dgfred]

Originally Posted by eagargal

Just an FYI, per the court calendar tomorrow's proceedings are via teleconference. I can't imagine anything substantive happening if that is the case. IMO.

http://www.apacheclerk.net/calendar.htm

What!?!?!? You mean they are not going to slam the boy in jail for all of these grave misdoings? I hope the judge fusses some at the mom for still hanging around with her 'friend' and actually tears into Whiting for the other silly accusations... he earned it.

[VictimHelp]

Originally Posted by dgfred

What has she not done, that you are 100% sure of?
Maybe she had permission.
Maybe school wasn't held that/those days.
Dugout mess is a bunch of nothing.
Gun issue is NOT an issue.
Only problem I can see is the friend, and whether she is having CR around him.
From what I can see the mother is in compliance, through a most difficult time in her life.

The silence has been un-deafened.

If it were me, I wouldn't have violated any of the conditions. And I think you wouldn't have either.

She was warned PREVIOUSLY about the felons but she CHOSE to DISREGARD those warnings. She went out of state ignoring the judge's instructions. She didn't do anything about his school for many months, so I'm not surprized he missed school. And the dugout thing is more serious than you realize. The dugout is reserved for players and coaches only, obviously he was UNSUPERVISED.

And there is SILENCE and will continue to be SILENCE about putting up a reward poster or handing out or posting flyers to look for the "killer" because the family and mom already know who is the "Killer".

Whiting is doing his JOB and is showing no favoritism. All the defense will offer is EXCUSES why they are non-compliant.

JR is doing his JOB by hearing those violations, instead of summarily dismissing them.

[dgfred]

Originally Posted by VictimHelp

If it were me, I wouldn't have violated any of the conditions. And I think you wouldn't have either.

She was warned PREVIOUSLY about the felons but she CHOSE to DISREGARD those warnings. She went out of state ignoring the judge's instructions. She didn't do anything about his school for many months, so I'm not surprized he missed school. And the dugout thing is more serious than you realize. The dugout is reserved for players and coaches only, obviously he was UNSUPERVISED.

And there is SILENCE and will continue to be SILENCE about putting up a reward poster or handing out or posting flyers to look for the "killer" because the family and mom already know who is the "Killer".

Whiting is doing his JOB and is showing no favoritism. All the defense will offer is EXCUSES why they are non-compliant.

JR is doing his JOB by hearing those violations, instead of summarily dismissing them.

Do you know if she had permission to leave the state, no.
She has done much, much more for his schooling than you know, so that one is out too.
Do you even know if he went 'into' the dugout, no.
He was not unsupervised, you just don't know it.
If we know the killer, release ALL the evidence... what could it hurt?
It is not an excuse, if nothing happened in the first place, right???
Whiting seems to be buckling under pressure, thereby filing a motion before the facts were fully known... basically to poison the publics opinion even worse than they already have... by releasing milli-evidence
that shows it is 'consistant' with the boy being the shooter.

[VictimHelp]

Originally Posted by dgfred

Do you know if she had permission to leave the state, no.
She has done much, much more for his schooling than you know, so that one is out too.
Do you even know if he went 'into' the dugout, no.
He was not unsupervised, you just don't know it.
If we know the killer, release ALL the evidence... what could it hurt?
It is not an excuse, if nothing happened in the first place, right???
Whiting seems to be buckling under pressure, thereby filing a motion before the facts were fully known... basically to poison the publics opinion even worse than they already have... by releasing milli-evidence
that shows it is 'consistant' with the boy being the shooter.

If it were me, I wouldn't have violated any of the conditions. And I think you wouldn't have either.

She was warned PREVIOUSLY about the felons but she CHOSE to DISREGARD those warnings. She went out of state ignoring the judge's instructions. She didn't do anything about his school for many months, so I'm not surprized he missed school. And the dugout thing is more serious than you realize. The dugout is reserved for players and coaches only, obviously he was UNSUPERVISED.

And there is SILENCE and will continue to be SILENCE about putting up a reward poster or handing out or posting flyers to look for the "killer" because the family and mom already know who is the "Killer".

Whiting is doing his JOB and is showing no favoritism. All the defense will offer is EXCUSES why they are non-compliant.

JR is doing his JOB by hearing those violations, instead of summarily dismissing them.

The case ia already pled, he pled guilty, so there can be no poisoning of the public? She should ask the court to release all the evidence if she thinks he's not guilty.

[sdn8tv]

Originally Posted by VictimHelp

If it were me, I wouldn't have violated any of the conditions. And I think you wouldn't have either.

She was warned PREVIOUSLY about the felons but she CHOSE to DISREGARD those warnings. She went out of state ignoring the judge's instructions. She didn't do anything about his school for many months, so I'm not surprized he missed school. And the dugout thing is more serious than you realize. The dugout is reserved for players and coaches only, obviously he was UNSUPERVISED.

And there is SILENCE and will continue to be SILENCE about putting up a reward poster or handing out or posting flyers to look for the "killer" because the family and mom already know who is the "Killer".

Whiting is doing his JOB and is showing no favoritism. All the defense will offer is EXCUSES why they are non-compliant.

JR is doing his JOB by hearing those violations, instead of summarily dismissing them.

Flyers are for promoting car washing and missing puppies...not solving murders.

[VictimHelp]

Originally Posted by sdn8tv

Flyers are for promoting car washing and missing puppies...not solving murders.

And flyers and rewards posters are effective at getting someone in the community to step forward with information, unless you already know he's guilty, and then they are useless. Why leave any stones unturned, if you think the boy is innocent. It's worth a try if you believe there are other killers.

[VictimHelp]

But the mom and Romeros are doing nothing in St. Johns to find the killers, so I guess the boy isn't innocent after all. No interviews. No rewards. No flyers. No community involvment. No visits to the police station to prod further investigations. No daily interviews with the media asking for help in finding the boy's killer. If I thought the boy was innocent and I were his mom I'ld do something to prove my boy's innocence. But we all know he confessed and pled guilty and is guilty.

[dgfred]

Originally Posted by Linda777NJ

Hmmm I would bet that the parents of missing children and the people that pay for billboards for help solving murders...and the FBI's most wanted list hanging at my post office and a few stores I frequent will be shocked to learn getting the word and the need for info out there is restricted for puppies and car washes.

The ones that pay for billboards usually have the funding to do so.

I don't recall anyone posting 'restricted' ??? Probably meant what worked best for flyers imo.

[tottenwess]

Originally Posted by Fep

Ha....that is true Wal-Mart does have posters "for missing children" but who in the world disappeared in this case. I don't believe there has ever been a poster or flyer "anywhere" that is associated with an investigation of a murderer. This flyer business VH and her friend have harped on for days do not come close to being rational. mhoo

Do you mean VH and himself/herself?

[dgfred]

Originally Posted by Linda777NJ

Go to the city of Philadelphia, you'll find them often posted on telephone polls requesting information and providing a phone number to leave information anonymously to help solve murders..there's also huge bill boards for the same thing.

IF the mom had the money, she might would do that.
IF the family had the money and some more information (evidence) they might would be willing to do that.
IF investigators would release ALL the evidence, some of us might be willing to do that.

But really, what relevance does it have here to keep harping on about flyers? Is that the best of discussions concerning this case? IMO not.

[R~O~S]

Originally Posted by Fep

Ha....that is true Wal-Mart does have posters "for missing children" but who in the world disappeared in this case. I don't believe there has ever been a poster or flyer "anywhere" that is associated with an investigation of a murderer. This flyer business VH and her friend have harped on for days do not come close to being rational. mhoo

Apparently you've never heard of the Sund Carrington Foundation.

http://www.lacipeterson.com/sundcarrington.html

They provide funds to families without economic means to help find the missing and provide information to bring violent criminals to justice. They were instrumental in providing reward money for information leading to first the safe return of Laci Petersen and in the end information leading to a conviction. They also stepped forward in the Sandra Cantu case IIRC. They've been providing this support since the loss of their founders, Francis and Carole Carrington's daughter, Granddaughter and a family friend in Yosemite National Park in 1999. FWIW, they're not the only ones, just the organization I know off the top of my head.

[dgfred]

Originally Posted by VictimHelp

But that's the big question, who is responsible, the mom? Was she tearing at him, was she giving him mental abuse for being with his dad, encouraging him to act in some way so she could be back together with him. I mean this all happened after he talked to mom.

Was it Vinnie? Oh but he's dead. And I doubt if he was the cause.

Some posters are assuming there was a cause and someone should be responsible. There was no abuse. The only person responsible for shooting the two men was CR.

A more likely scenario is the boy was manipulative and a patholological liar and that if he didn't get his way, WATCH OUT! Vinnie didn't let him get his way. The cause IMO was the boy. the person responsible IMO was the boy.

GB, you know as well as I do, that sometimes a person is defective, and no parent caused the defect.

Yeah, he is a manipulative and pathological liar, that murders two grown men (one of them his dad).... Gee, let's allow him to go live with his mother, that shouldn't be a problem. GB will say they didn't know what else to do with an 8 year old... but no sane Judge in the country would allow that if it was possible for the boy to harm anyone.