What is Cassey's best defense?

[ksk1]

I believe she did this, but I am concerned about the state's case. I dont think they should focus too much on her character before the child went missing, but I think they should focus on the fact that she did not report her daughter missing, the lies she told police, the smell in the car, forensic evidence in the car, some of her actions when she was "looking" for Caylee, some of the jail tapes in that she was not concerned about her daughter. I dont think they should use the tape of her in jail when "a child's" remains were found because I think the state blew that when they "tricked" her. What they did may be legal but they may invoke sympathy from the jury. Also, there are major problems with Cronk trying three times to find the remains. But is that reasonable doubt? The state should not make this case too complicated. Keep it simple, and convict.
For those of you who think she is innocent, what is your best case to get an acquittal?

[Dogmatic]

I don't know if Casey is guilty of killing her daughter.

That being said, the biggest strike against her is the 30 days between Caylee "missing" and police finding out. One has to wonder how long Casey would have actually waited, if her mother hadn't forced the issue.

Her best defense, imo, is to produce the person that was threatening her or scaring her into not reporting her daughter missing. If she produces that person, then perhaps reasonable doubt could raise it's head, however, the jury still has to accept the fact that a mother of a missing baby waited 30 long days and during that 30 day period, seemed to be having quite a happy time with friends and social activities. Basically, it's a train wreck.

The thirty days that allowed the killer a head start on police and decomposition to take it's toll on the evidence, comes back to bite the party hardy Mom who was "too scared" to notify police.

[Dick Tracy]

Originally Posted by Dogmatic

I don't know if Casey is guilty of killing her daughter.

That being said, the biggest strike against her is the 30 days between Caylee "missing" and police finding out. One has to wonder how long Casey would have actually waited, if her mother hadn't forced the issue.

Her best defense, imo, is to produce the person that was threatening her or scaring her into not reporting her daughter missing. If she produces that person, then perhaps reasonable doubt could raise it's head, however, the jury still has to accept the fact that a mother of a missing baby waited 30 long days and during that 30 day period, seemed to be having quite a happy time with friends and social activities. Basically, it's a train wreck.

The thirty days that allowed the killer a head start on police and decomposition to take it's toll on the evidence, comes back to bite the party hardy Mom who was "too scared" to notify police.

When I first saw this thread, I looked at the thread starter just to make sure it wasn't Jose Baez solicitating for ideas.

Most of the evidence that we've seen or at least can clarify is largely circumstantial. But it is an incredible amount, almost as high as Mount Rainier. The jury will side with Caylee because of the multitude of lies that she told. And I also think it is imperative that the state show the character of Casey, and then paint a precision picture weaving lie after lie into the crime, and then tie it off nicely with some physical evidence.

I also think the state hasn't shown it's entire hand yet. I think they hardcore evidence that ties her to the crime, and we just haven't seen it.

[enigma]

Originally Posted by Dick Tracy

When I first saw this thread, I looked at the thread starter just to make sure it wasn't Jose Baez solicitating for ideas.

Most of the evidence that we've seen or at least can clarify is largely circumstantial. But it is an incredible amount, almost as high as Mount Rainier. The jury will side with Caylee because of the multitude of lies that she told. And I also think it is imperative that the state show the character of Casey, and then paint a precision picture weaving lie after lie into the crime, and then tie it off nicely with some physical evidence.

I also think the state hasn't shown it's entire hand yet. I think they hardcore evidence that ties her to the crime, and we just haven't seen it.

Bolding mine. I have always believed and maintained that...

Just as a quick summary...

Caylee goes "missing" not once, but twice, first on June 9, then on June 15

Mother of the year keeps quiet about it for 31 days because she's using her own resources to find her "missing" daughter. I wonder whether she really expects anyone to believe she expected to find her daughter on the dancing floor or under the lounges at Fusian, or in the tattoo parlor, or in the shop where she bought lingerie and clothes for herself only, with money she stole from her friend.

Mother of the year researches chloroform/cloraform and how to make it, with significant traces of chloroform found in the trunk of her car, as well as hair identified as her daughter's, and shown to exhibit bands on it which are indicative of her being dead when placed/stored in the trunk

Caylee's remains in a state of decomposition (skeletal remains only), consistent with the length of time she had been "missing" and the environment where she was discarded

The ME's conclusion of murder, despite the absence of any soft tissue (or maybe even because of it, at least in part)

the duct tape on Caylee's skull (and heart sticker) - did she say something she was not supposed to? did she make too much noise while mommy was texting/talking to TonE until all hours that morning?

the desperate comment about the smell of death/decomp in Casey's car, right before it became an even more desperate attempt to retract or otherwise justify it

the pathetic attempts of the parents to reinvent CMA almost as fast as she's destroying herself and everyone else she still can, having already done it to "that child"?

Is that enough?

JMHO

[Katprint]

This thread on Casey's "BEST DEFENSE" is deteriorating into why there is no best defense. It may be true that there really is no great defense and the best Casey can hope for is a mediocre defense. Presumably the point of this thread is to discuss what those mediocre defenses might be.

So let's throw some mud at the wall and see what sticks:

(1) Cindy did it. Cindy is every bit as much connected to all of the physical evidence discovered to date i.e. the trash bags, laundry hamper, duct tape, scrapbooking stickers came from her house. Cindy is a co-owner of the smelly car and has keys to it. Caylee's body was discovered close to Cindy's residence. Plus, Casey's defense team may have some (somewhat unreliable) witness testimony that Caylee's body was not placed in the nearby overgrown vacant lot until after Casey had been put back in custody, but Cindy was not in custody and could have placed Caylee's body there.

Granted, there are definitely problems with this theory that have to be addressed. Casey's lies about nanny ZFG, "ugly coping" etc. will have to be spun to something like Casey was not initially worried about Caylee because Casey left Caylee with Cindy (who was previously Caylee's primary babysitter to the point of complaining about it to Cindy's coworkers), that Cindy called 9-1-1 to frame Casey, that Casey lied to protect her beloved mother Cindy, and generally that Casey is a victim and Cindy is a monster in sheep's clothing.

(2) Organized Crime Did It In a surprise manuever, the defense may allege that Casey was working as a prostitute or drug mule or other illegal scandalous jobs, that Casey balked at continuing further criminal activities, and that Caylee was taken hostage to keep Casey in line. Then, when the police got involved looking for Caylee, these bad guys murdered Caylee and dumped her body near Casey's house expecting it to be found sooner than it was. The duct tape and heart sticker across Caylee's mouth was a warning to Casey to keep her mouth shut or face the same fate. Casey would continue to blame her lies, failure to report Caylee missing, etc. on trying to protect her family from these bad guys.

Amazingly enough there are actually real-life cases of children being taken from their parents as hostages for their parents' conduct, including a rare slavery case prosecuted about 10 years ago in central California where children of undocumented workers were taken to prevent the workers from shirking/demanding to be paid/escaping from the farm compound. The workers were permitted monthly visits with their children so that they could satisfy themselves concerning their children's continued wellbeing, but the workers were constantly threatened that their children would be harmed if the workers caused any trouble.

(3) A different babysitter did it A variation on the illicit career theme, Casey may claim that she left Caylee with some random prostitute/drug dealer/other virtual stranger while Casey was making money doing whatever illegal activities. Then Casey stole from them or stiffed them and they kept Caylee as a hostage/collateral, then killed Caylee when things got too hot.

(4) Insanity/Diminished Capacity Casey may admit to having caused Caylee's death but bring in experts to testify that Casey was not in her right mind at that moment due to psychosis, intoxication, brain disease, whatever. Then, when Casey returned to lucidity, she freaked out and hid Caylee's body as it was later found. Explanations for the location, the heart sticker, etc. will be spun to reflect great emotional turmoil and remorse.

(5) Accidental Death Again, Casey may admit that Caylee's death happened while Caylee was under Casey's care, but purely by accident i.e. accidental strangulation on a venetian blind cord, or accidental drowning, or accidental poisoning or some other accident perhaps while Casey was sleeping when she should have been watching Caylee. Then, when Casey discovered Caylee's death, Casey freaked out.

(6) Manslaughter or Second Degree Murder but not First Degree Murder Per (5) above except the accident was the direct result of Casey's criminal abuse/neglect i.e. chloroforming or duct-taping Caylee to keep her quiet and/or sticking Caylee in the car trunk where she suffocated or died of heat in mid-June Orlando summer temperatures.


That's pretty much all I can think of off the top of my head. I will add additional mediocre defenses as I think of them.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[Dogmatic]

Katprint,

Well done!

Casey will have to produce "Zanny" or at the very least a cell phone number for said person, whether that person is a drug dealer, ****, or whatever.

IMO, that's her only hope of a defense.

[avalonfox]

Originally Posted by Katprint

This thread on Casey's "BEST DEFENSE" is deteriorating into why there is no best defense. It may be true that there really is no great defense and the best Casey can hope for is a mediocre defense. Presumably the point of this thread is to discuss what those mediocre defenses might be.

So let's throw some mud at the wall and see what sticks:

That's pretty much all I can think of off the top of my head. I will add additional mediocre defenses as I think of them.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

(respectfully snipped)

I think you covered any and all possibilities...but am wondering how the phone call from Caylee on July 15th is going to be explained. since they know she never received a call from anyone they don't know on that day from her records. Why the lie?
Jury might half listen to any of those you mentioned...until they throw in that phone call...then they won't listen at all.

(in my opinion)

[BlueHeron]

Originally Posted by Katprint

This thread on Casey's "BEST DEFENSE" is deteriorating into why there is no best defense. It may be true that there really is no great defense and the best Casey can hope for is a mediocre defense. Presumably the point of this thread is to discuss what those mediocre defenses might be.

So let's throw some mud at the wall and see what sticks:

(1) Cindy did it.
(2) Organized Crime Did It
(3) A different babysitter did it
(4) Insanity/Diminished Capacity
(5) Accidental Death
(6) Manslaughter or Second Degree Murder but not First Degree Murder Per (5) above except the accident was the direct result of Casey's criminal abuse/neglect

That's pretty much all I can think of off the top of my head. I will add additional mediocre defenses as I think of them.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

<respectful snipping>

It seems to me that all of these, with the exception of #4 would require KC to testify. I can't see how any of those other scenarios could be presented to the jury without KC saying that's what happened. Am I right, or is it possible without her on the stand?

[Katprint]

Originally Posted by Katprint

(5) Accidental Death Again, Casey may admit that Caylee's death happened while Caylee was under Casey's care, but purely by accident i.e. accidental strangulation on a venetian blind cord, or accidental drowning, or accidental poisoning or some other accident perhaps while Casey was sleeping when she should have been watching Caylee. Then, when Casey discovered Caylee's death, Casey freaked out.

respectfully snipping myself (LOL!)

The recent tragic death of Mike Tyson's 4 year old daughter who somehow wrapped the cord from an exercise machine around her neck and strangled http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/05/26/ari...ter/index.html is an illustration of the type of accidental strangulation to which I was referring. Sadly, these types of accidents happen all the time.

Given Casey's tendency to take things that happened to other people and insist that they happened to her, I think this recent occurrence increases the likelihood that Casey may claim that a similar thing happened to Caylee. Of course, Tyson's child's mother immediately called 9-1-1 upon discovering her daughter's situation, which was plainly not what Casey did. No doubt Casey would try to explain away her treatment of Caylee's remains as additional "ugly coping" or denial or some other psychobabble.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[itsjustme]

FONT="Trebuchet MS"][/font]
We all know the saying "Innocent Until Proven Guily". in this case it's not just the circumstantial evidence but the forensic evidence that shows she is "guilty" prior to the trial.

How this woman finds a "venue" truly able to sit a jury is beyond me. I live in South Florida and last I heard the trial was being moved here.

I certainly think with everything publicized on TV and the internet she is guilty. Let's hope the jury who sits on her trial does also.

Originally Posted by Dogmatic

I don't know if Casey is guilty of killing her daughter.

That being said, the biggest strike against her is the 30 days between Caylee "missing" and police finding out. One has to wonder how long Casey would have actually waited, if her mother hadn't forced the issue.

Her best defense, imo, is to produce the person that was threatening her or scaring her into not reporting her daughter missing. If she produces that person, then perhaps reasonable doubt could raise it's head, however, the jury still has to accept the fact that a mother of a missing baby waited 30 long days and during that 30 day period, seemed to be having quite a happy time with friends and social activities. Basically, it's a train wreck.

The thirty days that allowed the killer a head start on police and decomposition to take it's toll on the evidence, comes back to bite the party hardy Mom who was "too scared" to notify police.

[Katprint]

Originally Posted by itsjustme

FONT="Trebuchet MS"][/font]
We all know the saying "Innocent Until Proven Guily". in this case it's not just the circumstantial evidence but the forensic evidence that shows she is "guilty" prior to the trial.

How this woman finds a "venue" truly able to sit a jury is beyond me. I live in South Florida and last I heard the trial was being moved here.

I certainly think with everything publicized on TV and the internet she is guilty. Let's hope the jury who sits on her trial does also.

With respect, this thread is not supposed to be about the reasons why Casey is clearly guilty. The original poster asked, "For those of you who think she is innocent, what is your best case to get an acquittal?"

Maybe I shouldn't have posted my scenarios because I do not belong to the group of people who "thinks she is innocent." I posted them primarily because it did not look like people were coming up with much that might support an acquittal and I hoped to get the ball rolling.

So, does anyone out there think Casey is innocent? We're waiting to hear what Casey's best defense is from you!

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[*Spike*]

there probably isnt anyone on this board that believe's casey didnt do it. JMO

[Details]

The thing is - the best defense, in this case, won't be something that will get her off. That simply does not exist - too many lies, it's just too obvious she knew what had happened.

So, the best defense she should be looking for is the one that reduces her responsibility as much as possible. And that would be the 'accidental death and panicked disposal of the body' scenario. Hope for far lesser charges off of that.

I don't think it's what happened, and I don't hope she gets it - but I think that's their best possible defense. However - if they try it - I'd love to see charges brought up for what she did to that lady she accused of taking Caylee. It's a double-edged sword - this is the defense most likely to minimize jail time - but they'd have to admit to lying, and that could lead to some other charges.

[puleeze09]

Originally Posted by ksk1

I believe she did this, but I am concerned about the state's case. I dont think they should focus too much on her character before the child went missing, but I think they should focus on the fact that she did not report her daughter missing, the lies she told police, the smell in the car, forensic evidence in the car, some of her actions when she was "looking" for Caylee, some of the jail tapes in that she was not concerned about her daughter. I dont think they should use the tape of her in jail when "a child's" remains were found because I think the state blew that when they "tricked" her. What they did may be legal but they may invoke sympathy from the jury. Also, there are major problems with Cronk trying three times to find the remains. But is that reasonable doubt? The state should not make this case too complicated. Keep it simple, and convict.
For those of you who think she is innocent, what is your best case to get an acquittal?

Innocent?

It will be a cold day in hell before she is ever found innocent. Too much evidence against her. To those who think kronk had anything to do with this case other then finding the body then you should get your heads examined. He is not the killer as some of you wish he was so your beloved casey can be free.

[enigma]

Casey's "best" (or should I say only) defense? Cindy, at this stage.

Just my humble opinion.

[imc_e]

Casey has boxed herself into a first degree murder trial with a defense that no jury will accept.

Her best defense would be to confess what happened or suffer the fate that is coming down the pipe.

Guilty as charged, and that is just a matter of time.

Poor Caylee didn't stand a chance.

jmo

[spydernweb2006]

IMO Once Casey was at Universal with the Police looking for Her Office that didnt exist and at Sawgrass Apts looking for a non existant nannies apartment in an obviously vacant apartment, she became unvelievable on all counts. She has lied soooo much that even if at this late stage of the game IF she decided to tell the truth, noone would believe her, especially a jury. Casey and Her Parents/Family have only themselves to blame for any ramifications the courts give them for the death of Caylee, because even IF they didnt ( I personally believe they DID) cause Caylee's death they sure covered up any crimes with their lies.

NO JURY is gonna buy anything that comes outta Casey or her Parent's mouths, they have just lied too much and smeared too much bull manure to ever be seen by anyone as innocent or even caring about true justice for Caylee. Playing devil's advocate even if someone else had killed Caylee, Casey and Her parents have made such a mockery and mess of the investigation that noone would realistically buy any other theories without some very direct and overwhelming evidence that another person other then Casey did it and her Parents are covering for her. So even IF someone else had killed Caylee or if it were an accident Casey and her Parents have negated any presumption of innocence and consideration in the eyes of the public. I highly doubt any jury is gonna be very sympathetic to Casey when they see the remains photos and know that while that poor baby was tossed away. OC was partying and playing house with TonE.

Personally I think the whole family has some serious mental issues, far beyond what we can comprehend. I just cannot get my mind around how can you be partying and having fun with your baby dead in the trunk of your car, or a Family member that would cover for such behavior.

I gonna go hug my grandkids and say a prayer for Caylee. My heart aches.....


JMHO

Hugs,
Spyder

[margaritaville]

Originally Posted by enigma

casey's "best" (or should i say only) defense? Cindy, at this stage.

Just my humble opinion.

ita.....

Moo