Sat. Apr 4, Sun. Apr. 5 [Time to Move On I Guess]

[Politigal]

Here's a new Gricar forum

http://gricar.getforum.org/board/you...-forum-f2.html

Originally Posted by Politigal

Here's a new Gricar forum

http://gricar.getforum.org/board/you...-forum-f2.html

Or a thread over at Crime Library

But...what the heck happened here this week...if I am allowed to ask? And why was UtR banned...if I am allowed to ask?

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally Posted by Serendipitous1

Or a thread over at Crime Library

But...what the heck happened here this week...if I am allowed to ask? And why was UtR banned...if I am allowed to ask?

Ditto, if I'm allowed to ask.

[Cloudbuster]

I agree with you LW. I tried joining the crime library and it won't let me thru. Its a shame that many threads are gone and it's hard to go day by day to a new one. I don't understand why we have to start a new one everyday? If we had only 4 in total that would be better. Perhaps someone is complaining and whining to CW. I can tell you it's not me.

[Politigal]

And I'm sorry CW, but I do not understand why UTR was banned. She has been one of the most integral/loyal/judicious posters on this forum. She has provided numerous fact filled posts. She's always tried to be fair.

[gstickley]

Neither do I understand why UTR was banned. Nor do I understand why we had to go to day-at-time posting. Nor do I understand why the threads for Mon., Tue., & today were completely deleted, with no explanation given. If a poster has to be "punished", at least that poster (& all the others) ought to know what the punishment is for, & why "punish" everyone else? I've seen quite a bit of bullying & harassing but never by UTR. This is very unfair to UTR & it is very unfair to the rest of us who don't harass & bully!

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally Posted by Cloudbuster

I agree with you LW. I tried joining the crime library and it won't let me thru. Its a shame that many threads are gone and it's hard to go day by day to a new one. I don't understand why we have to start a new one everyday? If we had only 4 in total that would be better. Perhaps someone is complaining and whining to CW. I can tell you it's not me.

As far as I know, the "One thread per day" rule was complied with, but since Monday, even the daily threads were deleted. I didn't see anything I'd call improper on today's thread.

For UtR...and the rest of this 'motley crew'.

Jefferson Airplane: "When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead...and the White Knight is talking backwards...and the Red Queen's 'off with her head!' Remember what the door mouse said...FEED YOUR HEAD"

[J. J. in Phila]

I'd almost believe this to be an April Fool's prank, but it's April Second.

I, for one, do not understand this.

Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila

I'd almost believe this to be an April Fool's prank, but it's April Second.

I, for one, do not understand this.

Does not matter. In the morning this will all just be someone's "white rabbit" wet dream...and then disappear.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally Posted by Serendipitous1

Does not matter. In the morning this will all just be someone's "white rabbit" wet dream...and then disappear.

A lot of hard work and study has gone into these threads. Many hours upon hours of research, I call it blood sweat and tears. If your right S1 then it disappears just like Ray Gricar did and we all know he worked hard with his cases ect. Maybe it's just a coindence but everytime something is going on like upcoming elections things go poof. Heck if you go on a spirituality thread and say anything your attacked and that's okay but here? Im going to ask Alice I think she'll know? I don't think our CW would do this for no reason. She strikes me as not that way, so maybe it's something else?

[Politigal]

corrected link for my forum

http://gricar.getforum.org/board/

[gstickley]

What a great post, LW. You've said exactly what I've thought for years, but I could never have the grace to say it the way you just did--or maybe I just didn't have the courage!

Ray Gricar has been missing 4 years, less 12 days. Is anybody seriously looking for him? We've heard for the past couple years that a new investigation has been ongoing, but we've never gotten any proof of it. Media releases have been almost non-existent. The most we've gotten consists of ways he could have "walked away" & reasons why he would have "walked away", with a comment here & there that maybe there is another reason RG is missing; but the other reasons why he is missing are surrounded by the "walkaway".

I thought that, & I still do think, that KA would be the one candidate who would do the most to further an investigation into RG's disappearance. Yet, the almost fever pitch of animosity has increased with the upcoming election & even prior to her announcing her candidacy.

Really makes you wonder, doesn't it?

This is my opinion, to which I am entitled.

[J. J. in Phila]

While media releases have been scant, reading between the lines, I have the impression that the investigation is continuing.

[Politigal]

Originally Posted by gstickley

What a great post, LW. You've said exactly what I've thought for years, but I could never have the grace to say it the way you just did--or maybe I just didn't have the courage!

Ray Gricar has been missing 4 years, less 12 days. Is anybody seriously looking for him? We've heard for the past couple years that a new investigation has been ongoing, but we've never gotten any proof of it. Media releases have been almost non-existent. The most we've gotten consists of ways he could have "walked away" & reasons why he would have "walked away", with a comment here & there that maybe there is another reason RG is missing; but the other reasons why he is missing are surrounded by the "walkaway".

I thought that, & I still do think, that KA would be the one candidate who would do the most to further an investigation into RG's disappearance. Yet, the almost fever pitch of animosity has increased with the upcoming election & even prior to her announcing her candidacy.

Really makes you wonder, doesn't it?

This is my opinion, to which I am entitled.

That's the weird impression I get sometimes Gstickley...that some people just really *don't* want to know what happened to RG.

[J. J. in Phila]

One thing that both candidates in 2005 could have done was say, "If this isn't resolved by the time I'm sworn in, I'll call a grand jury to investigate the disappearance." Politically, I can understand why neither did.

It's the one thing that MM could have done at any point, it is the one thing that any of the three challengers could call for at any point. It's one of the things that Bob Buehner has called for.

[Amused]

I think you might be surprised that many more read here than it would appear.

I am a Centre County resident and I always stop in here before I leave.
I cannot believe that one of you was banned. wow.

Also, imo, I don't care for the daily thread requirement.

[gstickley]

Hey, we're still here! And 273 "views" to date. That's pretty good news. Apparently, there really are interested people out there.

Only 11 more days until the 4th anniversary of Ray Gricar's disappearance. Four (4) long years of waiting for something, anything, to show that his disappearance hasn't been forgotten & that somebody is still investigating the disappearance. It's been a long time since LE has had any press releases ref. this case. It would be nice to hear from them.

[Politigal]

Sorry for the inconvenience folks....but the board I created just wasn't working properly, so I've found a new forum host here. Please visit & spread the word. Thanks, Politigal

http://raygricar.iboards.us/

Ya know...it seems to me that CW has warned us numerous times to "take it to PMs". Some of us have done just that...and some get banned for it, while others do not. It seems this further warning from CW kinda escaped the general population's notice...including mine (and I know ignorance is no excuse): Effective immediately (3/2/09) - pm's are now bannable.

There is a redeeming feature however: How is a poster that is banned able to come back under a new username? ...hint to UtR...

And there are lots of other good CW-isms here.

Anyone can blog about their own personal interpretation of anything...however misguided and/or misinformed. But only in an open discussion forum, amongst a diverse population, can those interpretations be properly adressed and challenged. Sure, there are going to be heated differences of opinions. And of course there are "rules". But in the end, when opinions are stifled, discussion is gone...and only the truth suffers. hint to UtR

I have seen the feigned apologies here and elsewhere...but I have to wonder what the heck someone was thinking!

This fourth anniversary of RG's disappearance is particularly interesting, to me at least, because of the DA election cycle. My hope is that the next DA of Centre County will be able to "dynamite" the log jam. It is perhaps the last best hope of solving the mystery.

Without proper and verifiable credentials...and whether they admit it (e.g. Slamdunks) or not...bloggers on the subject of RG are nothing more than posters on a exclusive (some might say 'alternate opinions excluded') message board. But their power to persuade is lost in their own impotence...which is the reason I am not blogging about the disappearance of Ray Gricar (and have no idea why a certain individual would presume to do so, he also being completely impotent).

Anyone who is registered on the CDT website, for instance, can blog about RG's disappearance. And, in my opinion, there should be an alternative blog there. Any takers? ...hint to UtR...

I think the indecision during the 8-1/2 month reign of MS contributed to the enigma. He has to live with that, even if it was not he who totally screwed up this investigation. But the real a-hole is still sitting there, doing nothing useful (like teats on a bull), except possibly looking for sheltered employment...like LM (post Gricar).

Why is that?

Originally Posted by puzzled

No big deal pgal...we luv ya! Happy weekend to all!

Puzzled...just puzzled here, I guess. What part of "n-o d-i-s-c-u-s-s-i-o-n" did you not understand? Are you a meek rebel (like me), or one of those who wants this forum shut down, or something in between?

Originally Posted by Serendipitous1

Anyone who is registered on the CDT website, for instance, can blog about RG's disappearance. And, in my opinion, there should be an alternative blog there. Any takers? ...hint to UtR...

Thanks for the PMs J.J. (I will not report you). But "sporadic comments" has not yielded anything useful (so far)...sorry to say.

ETA: by useful I mean exculpatory in regard to RG's disappearance.

[J. J. in Phila]

"Sporadic Comments" wasn't intended to "yield" anything other than the right question or the right comment. There has been some new information, though nothing "earth shattering."

I don't believe there was anything to report.

Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila

"Sporadic Comments" wasn't intended to "yield" anything other than the right question or the right comment. There has been some new information, though nothing "earth shattering."

I don't believe there was anything to report.

So you acknowledge that "sporadic comments" has yielded nothing...as was obvious to anyone who has followed this case...and that "the right comment" excludes those which differ from your totally opinionated offerings. Thanks for confirming that J.J...though I truly wish it was otherwise (and I mean that sincerely).

When PB left the CDT (and state), he left a void which no one could fill. We, the public, are back to no hope of knowing learning anything new. This anniversary will come and go without so much as a whimper. Because no one who is in a position to make a difference seems inclined to care.

That is just the way that it is. And all the "Mrs. Prosecutors" hug their children...and hope this does not happen to their man. Good luck with that!

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally Posted by Serendipitous1

So you acknowledge that "sporadic comments" has yielded nothing...as was obvious to anyone who has followed this case...and that "the right comment" excludes those which differ from your totally opinionated offerings. Thanks for confirming that J.J...though I truly wish it was otherwise (and I mean that sincerely).

First nothing "earthshaking" as of yet. There are some new things including the fact that Mr. Gricar seemed to be working harder the week before he disappeared (something we were all missing), the titling of the Mini, the significance of the media markets, the witness list.

As for excluding poster comments, I've only done that with one homepage comment that included a link (and she's free to post it in comments or on her homepage) and two from one poster who used *suggestive* language. It wasn't the poster UTR.

Keep also in mind that the gook folks there (who are voters) have not been following the case as you or I do.

If you check today's blog someone was chiding me for saying I thought something was coincidence.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally Posted by Serendipitous1

When PB left the CDT (and state), he left a void which no one could fill. We, the public, are back to no hope of knowing learning anything new. This anniversary will come and go without so much as a whimper. Because no one who is in a position to make a difference seems inclined to care.

That is just the way that it is. And all the "Mrs. Prosecutors" hug their children...and hope this does not happen to their man. Good luck with that!

I said that the first time he asked. You might note that I am generally trying to get the evidence out prior to the anniversary.

[gstickley]

Originally Posted by logicworks

'Second thoughts' on the route of travel-----

Down route 192 then turned off on route 445, toward Millheim/Aaronsburg----might explain why LE did not go to Lewisburg to check for the Mini there. It always seemed logical that if he said he was going down route 192, then logically, they would have followed the route all the way down to the Lewisburg area.

Since Saturday's air searches included route 45, I would guess, for some reason, LE thought he turned away from Lewisburg somewhere along the way. IF LE suspected he turned off from route 192, since route 45 also leads to Lewisburg, why didn't the search extend all the way down to Lewisburg?
JMO

I've never understood why either, LW. Surely, one would think, if RG were reportedly last heard from on Rt. 192, that & all roads leading to Lewisburg would have been checked. If information had been given to LE about RG visiting the SoS previously & his interest in antiquing (& wasn't there someplace else nearby that he had visited?), I've never understood why Lewisburg wasn't checked by air. Added to that, if BOLO's were issued to surrounding states, why did it take so long for LE in the Lewisburg area to spot the Mini? (And, wasn't the locating of the Mini almost an accident?) I realize other Mini Coopers were in the area, but why were they not all checked out if they were cruising the area? Strange-looking car missing, DA missing, LE in other states contacted: why did it take so long to find the Mini in Lewisburg? Why were the air searches concentrated in one area only??

[Cloudbuster]

I wish we would know where the 38 missing cars was held? It seems after the RG call perhaps from that area he switched cars? Did he head one way and the other person headed to Lewisburg with his mini? Im wondering if RG had a reason to be undercover at that point or at least didn't want to be seen, perhaps he was observing something and needed to downplay his appearance. That would include his vanity mini and his need for sunglasses coupled with dressed casual. It all points toward not wanting to stand out.

MOO

[J. J. in Phila]

Actually, this had nothing to do with "character." The last known location that LE had was in a rural area, and one without cell coverage, in part. They assumed, logically, but incorrectly, that there was breakdown or accident.

Had there been an accident in a more densely populated area, i.e. Bellefonte or Lewisburg, it would be reported; someone would have seen it, heard it, or reported a car wrapped abound a telephone poll. Likewise, those areas had cell coverage. Had the car broken down, RFG could have called for repairs.

Also, as someone who does live in a densely populated area, it would be next to impossible to find a car from the air in an area with a lot of cars, like Lewisburg, especially from a fixed wing aircraft.

[J. J. in Phila]

LW, LE started looking for RFG on 4/16/05. They started at the last place where they had evidence that he was, Brush Valley. The trail led beyond that by the evening.

One possibility, at that time, and the one I would have suspected, is that he had a car accident, possibly in Brush Valley, that hadn't been reported to LE. They knew, at about 6:30 PM, that this didn't happen, but they didn't know before that.

[2-B]

Originally Posted by logicworks

It would appear that one of the most important factors in determining whether foul play took place is to know where the person was at, at the time of disappearance. Considering LE did not go to Lewisburg, I don't think that is the last place he was at.


Here is a link to a South Wales site, light years ahead, IMO, that states-----------

'Those who are missing with the intention to suicide and those missing due to foul play, are regarded by the police as high priority. The implications associated with misclassifying suicide and foul play cases as runaways are very serious.'

[snipped]

Other countries do seem light years ahead, if for no other reason than having national policies to deal with missing people. The UK policy (ironically enough, drafted in 2005) states in bold, capital letters:

REMEMBER, IF IN DOUBT, THINK THE WORST UNTIL THE CONTRARY IS PROVED

Like the South Wales site, the UK policy is worth a close read, especially the section on assessing factors that can indicate risk to the person missing. Among other things, these include

1. Whether the disappearance is out of character;
2. The circumstances of the last known sighting;
3. Whether the person prepared for an absence from home.

http://www.acpo.police.uk/asp/polici...5_24x02x05.pdf.