2/1-

bkwits · #1 02-01-2009, 11:07 AM

Good morning everyone.. Gee, I can't leave you alone for a few hours. But today will be better. It's Sunday and we will behave ourselves.

PensiveOne · #2 02-01-2009, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkwits

Good morning everyone.. Gee, I can't leave you alone for a few hours. But today will be better. It's Sunday and we will behave ourselves.

Good morning bkwits. I promise to behave as well. Big day for Arizona with the Super Bowl. I don't expect any more news on this case today.

denisel · #3 02-01-2009, 11:35 AM

not to rehash something, but if TR took the donuts back to work, the police ought to be able to question workers if she was there and there would be donuts at work the next day. Did anyone know if police asked her coworkers? Good thing she kept receipts.

denisel · #4 02-01-2009, 11:36 AM

Does anyone know if all those filings on 1-29 from the court are available to view yet?

GentleBreeze · #5 02-01-2009, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denisel

Does anyone know if all those filings on 1-29 from the court are available to view yet?

No filings since the discovery supplemental on 1/27.

imoo

bkwits · #6 02-01-2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denisel

Does anyone know if all those filings on 1-29 from the court are available to view yet?

Did you check on the ChildsVoice Myspace page. The link is in the links section. But I don't believe the findings have been posted. IMO

GentleBreeze · #7 02-01-2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda777NJ

Good morning denisel and welcome.

IMO I think Tiffany's alibi checked out just fine.

Good Morning!

I agree. I don't think it would be difficult to do at all.

imoo

denisel · #8 02-01-2009, 11:42 AM

What does IMO mean?

bkwits · #9 02-01-2009, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denisel

not to rehash something, but if TR took the donuts back to work, the police ought to be able to question workers if she was there and there would be donuts at work the next day. Did anyone know if police asked her coworkers? Good thing she kept receipts.

I saw a post on a blog a long time ago from a co worker. I believe she said Tiff brought the donuts back, but not sure. Does anyone remember where that blog is (if it is still up)?

#10 02-01-2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkwits

I saw a post on a blog a long time ago from a co worker. I believe she said Tiff brought the donuts back, but not sure. Does anyone remember where that blog is (if it is still up)?

It's in Detective Neckel's second testimony while being questioned by Mr. Brewer.

GentleBreeze · #11 02-01-2009, 11:56 AM

So what does everyone think is going to happen in the hearing, Thursday?

imo

#12 02-01-2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denisel

not to rehash something, but if TR took the donuts back to work, the police ought to be able to question workers if she was there and there would be donuts at work the next day. Did anyone know if police asked her coworkers? Good thing she kept receipts.

Don't be shy about rehashing, please. We've covered the same bases a hundred times on this board, but sometimes something new comes up, evidence, idea, or scenario to spark a new discussion. I imagine there are many more rocks to look under and angles to be considered. Seems like every time a small piece to the puzzle is revealed the theories are adjusted accordingly.
It's seldom boring. To me anyway.
Happy hunting.

#13 02-01-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GentleBreeze

So what does everyone think is going to happen in the hearing, Thursday?

imo

It'll have to be more than has happened in the previous ones. I'm still hoping for more evidence disclosure.
Is a ruling on the Motion to Dismiss likely?
How about Mr. Brewers Motion to Suppress?

denisel · #14 02-01-2009, 12:07 PM

Do you feel judges often use every tool they can, delaying, etc., so they do not have to rule, they do not have to be controversial, having attorneys ask a higher court for an opinion, and ultimately hoping a case settles? It would be a cautious move to do nothing, by having the boy in treatment for the 245 days and see what happens, see if they settle?

IMO

Pag Boi · #15 02-01-2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denisel

not to rehash something, but if TR took the donuts back to work, the police ought to be able to question workers if she was there and there would be donuts at work the next day. Did anyone know if police asked her coworkers? Good thing she kept receipts.

When the child confessed, there was no need to get the coworkers stmts since SJPD called off all investigators ASAP

DN says she went to Tif's house on Thursday to get some things straight in her head that didn't make sense to her. That is when Tif offered up the s'ghetti.

I have many problems with the Tif went to the store 2x tale that DN has given.

DN only has a video of the video of Tif's 1st purchase. When did she go to Wilbur's to get it? By the time the child was arrested, LE knew that Tif went at least once. That the victims coworkers were there after 5pm.

IF the video could be rewound to watch Tif's 1st purchase, they had to pass the 2nd purchase. Why wasn't the video taken as evidence? I don't believe for one second that the store employee could show her Tif's old purchase but couldn't eject it.

Had Wilbur's been robbed or accusing an employee of stealing, they would have a video to LE ASAP.

DN secured a tape of the SRP employees leaving. DN secured a tape of the coerced confession. DN couldn't call someone to get the tape of Wilbur's out of the video?

What did Tif buy that rotted? Why take rotten, smelly food from her Jeep into her dirty kitchen?

There is a reason why the Wilbur's video is not in evidence. It didn't fit the crime or the time line JMOO

#16 02-01-2009, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pag Boi

When the child confessed, there was no need to get the coworkers stmts since SJPD called off all investigators ASAP

DN says she went to Tif's house on Thursday to get some things straight in her head that didn't make sense to her. That is when Tif offered up the s'ghetti.

I have many problems with the Tif went to the store 2x tale that DN has given.

DN only has a video of the video of Tif's 1st purchase. When did she go to Wilbur's to get it? By the time the child was arrested, LE knew that Tif went at least once. That the victims coworkers were there after 5pm.

IF the video could be rewound to watch Tif's 1st purchase, they had to pass the 2nd purchase. Why wasn't the video taken as evidence? I don't believe for one second that the store employee could show her Tif's old purchase but couldn't eject it.

Had Wilbur's been robbed or accusing an employee of stealing, they would have a video to LE ASAP.

DN secured a tape of the SRP employees leaving. DN secured a tape of the coerced confession. DN couldn't call someone to get the tape of Wilbur's out of the video?

What did Tif buy that rotted? Why take rotten, smelly food from her Jeep into her dirty kitchen?

There is a reason why the Wilbur's video is not in evidence. It didn't fit the crime or the time line JMOO

Hambuger meat.

GentleBreeze · #17 02-01-2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawk

It'll have to be more than has happened in the previous ones. I'm still hoping for more evidence disclosure.
Is a ruling on the Motion to Dismiss likely?
How about Mr. Brewers Motion to Suppress?

Who really knows, Hawk, but I think time is of the essence now where he has to rule one way or the other. I do believe JR has reconsidered, after getting the appellate ruling and is going to do so before competency is decided.

However that is just trying to read tealeaves. He may let the hearing go forward and tell them he will rule later but it seems odd if that were true he would set up the hearing before the competency date.

I do know he can rule whichever way he thinks is best for all parties concerned. I do think he will weigh all of his options carefully. A lot is at stake here. Not only the boy's age but two murder victims.

I am in agreement with Linda. He may decide to give the 240 days and then have him assessed again.

While we heard from one media outlet only that the prosecution expert agreed with the defense expert, we have heard that from no other media. While they may agree to incompetency the state expert may think he can be restored in 240 days.

imo

muska · #18 02-01-2009, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pag Boi

When the child confessed, there was no need to get the coworkers stmts since SJPD called off all investigators ASAP

DN says she went to Tif's house on Thursday to get some things straight in her head that didn't make sense to her. That is when Tif offered up the s'ghetti.

I have many problems with the Tif went to the store 2x tale that DN has given.

DN only has a video of the video of Tif's 1st purchase. When did she go to Wilbur's to get it? By the time the child was arrested, LE knew that Tif went at least once. That the victims coworkers were there after 5pm.

IF the video could be rewound to watch Tif's 1st purchase, they had to pass the 2nd purchase. Why wasn't the video taken as evidence? I don't believe for one second that the store employee could show her Tif's old purchase but couldn't eject it.

Had Wilbur's been robbed or accusing an employee of stealing, they would have a video to LE ASAP.

DN secured a tape of the SRP employees leaving. DN secured a tape of the coerced confession. DN couldn't call someone to get the tape of Wilbur's out of the video?

What did Tif buy that rotted? Why take rotten, smelly food from her Jeep into her dirty kitchen?

There is a reason why the Wilbur's video is not in evidence. It didn't fit the crime or the time line JMOO

Supposedly the second trip was erased by the time the police knew there was a second trip and went looking for it, but you're right....wouldn't they have had to go past that second trip to get the video of the first trip. That is another reason to doubt whether there was a second trip......the receipt could be from anyone.

GentleBreeze · #19 02-01-2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muska

Supposedly the second trip was erased by the time the police knew there was a second trip and went looking for it, but you're right....wouldn't they have had to go past that second trip to get the video of the first trip. That is another reason to doubt whether there was a second trip......the receipt could be from anyone.

I would think in a small store like this that the cashiers may even know her and remembered her coming back in.

imoo

#20 02-01-2009, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GentleBreeze

Who really knows, Hawk, but I think time is of the essence now where he has to rule one way or the other. I do believe JR has reconsidered, after getting the appellate ruling and is going to do so before competency is decided.

However that is just trying to read tealeaves. He may let the hearing go forward and tell them he will rule later but it seems odd if that were true he would set up the hearing before the competency date.

I do know he can rule whichever way he thinks is best for all parties concerned. I do think he will weigh all of his options carefully. A lot is at stake here. Not only the boy's age but two murder victims.

I am in agreement with Linda. He may decide to give the 240 days and then have him assessed again.

While we heard from one media outlet only that the prosecution expert agreed with the defense expert, we have heard that from no other media. While they may agree to incompetency the state expert may think he can be restored in 240 days.

imo

Where would the boy be for the 8 months? Seems improbable to me that he'll know anymore about 'assisting his defence' in 240 days than he does now. It would also be easy for him to trick the 'experts' with a little coaching and education.
A smart person can play dumb much easier than a dumb person can play smart. But that's the law I guess.

Pag Boi · #21 02-01-2009, 12:28 PM

The neighbors that allegedly heard sounds

11/7 - DN tells BB that she interviewed the Jaramillos and recorded their statement. They heard.....

- BB asks DN what words that Jaramillos used to describe the noise. Who brought up the shots/pop and what verbiage was used? DN says she recorded the interview and asked them for a written stmt. DN says she hasn't had time to review the tape so she cannot say whether she brought it up or they did.

11/19 - BB asks DN about her case notes. If she has different recollections at different points in time, which notes would be the most reliable. DN says her first notes

- BB asks DN about the Jaramillos statement and how the pop/shot sounds came up. DN tells BB that her Chief interviewed the Jaramillos. The Chief used the pop.....pause....pop.......to describe the witness stmt to her.

We have no idea what the witness actually heard. We have no idea what the witness told LE. LE can't even keep their story straight about how the neighbor came to be an ear witness.

Much like the only other ear witness, Tanya. This is the worst investigation ever released to the public. All JMOO

GentleBreeze · #22 02-01-2009, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawk

Where would the boy be for the 8 months? Seems improbable to me that he'll know anymore about 'assisting his defence' in 240 days than he does now. It would also be easy for him to trick the 'experts' with a little coaching and education.
A smart person can play dumb much easier than a dumb person can play smart. But that's the law I guess.

I really don't know. Maybe out but under the direction and rule of the court. Directed to receive extensive mental therapy.

If he cuts him loose then JR has no legal authority over this kid, anymore.

imoo

#23 02-01-2009, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda777NJ

She did have a receipt, she was seen on video, she did run into and talk with EMT's, she did go to buy her husband stuff, she did buy donuts.

IMO Tiffany's alibi is rock solid and backed up by physical evidence and witnesses.

I agree. She was scrutinized by the cops and the public more than any other person, besides the defendant, I believe.

She simply wasn't at the scene.

denisel · #24 02-01-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pag Boi

When the child confessed, there was no need to get the coworkers stmts since SJPD called off all investigators ASAP

DN says she went to Tif's house on Thursday to get some things straight in her head that didn't make sense to her. That is when Tif offered up the s'ghetti.

I have many problems with the Tif went to the store 2x tale that DN has given.

DN only has a video of the video of Tif's 1st purchase. When did she go to Wilbur's to get it? By the time the child was arrested, LE knew that Tif went at least once. That the victims coworkers were there after 5pm.

IF the video could be rewound to watch Tif's 1st purchase, they had to pass the 2nd purchase. Why wasn't the video taken as evidence? I don't believe for one second that the store employee could show her Tif's old purchase but couldn't eject it.

Had Wilbur's been robbed or accusing an employee of stealing, they would have a video to LE ASAP.

DN secured a tape of the SRP employees leaving. DN secured a tape of the coerced confession. DN couldn't call someone to get the tape of Wilbur's out of the video?

What did Tif buy that rotted? Why take rotten, smelly food from her Jeep into her dirty kitchen?

There is a reason why the Wilbur's video is not in evidence. It didn't fit the crime or the time line JMOO

Respectfully speaking, your arguments don't make sense to me. She had the receipts. Why would she buy rotten meat? I assume she couldnt get into her house, thus the meat rotted in her vehicle. She probably didnt even go to her vehicle because of the media. Didn't someone post she was at her grandmothers house to avoid the media?I wouldnt drive around with all the press. And I always forget things and have to go back to the store sometimes even three times. From what I read on posts, she went back to the store from her work, not from home. What do you base that this on that doesn't fit the timeline? Why would the store keep the tapes after several days? Do you really believe Wilbur's employees are covering up a crime? Wouldn't they go to jail for that? Maybe I'm missing something but I don't know what evidence you have to reach those conclusions? If she did it from the timeline you suggest she would have had to guess that the boy was walking around the block an hour and a half, get a white car, kill the men, go back to work and go back to Wilburs in one minute and then convince a Wilburs employee to help out. However, from what I read on the posts the boy had an hour and half window to commit the crime. I'm not accusing anyone but your post makes no sense.

IMO

GentleBreeze · #25 02-01-2009, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pag Boi

The neighbors that allegedly heard sounds

11/7 - DN tells BB that she interviewed the Jaramillos and recorded their statement. They heard.....

- BB asks DN what words that Jaramillos used to describe the noise. Who brought up the shots/pop and what verbiage was used? DN says she recorded the interview and asked them for a written stmt. DN says she hasn't had time to review the tape so she cannot say whether she brought it up or they did.

11/19 - BB asks DN about her case notes. If she has different recollections at different points in time, which notes would be the most reliable. DN says her first notes

- BB asks DN about the Jaramillos statement and how the pop/shot sounds came up. DN tells BB that her Chief interviewed the Jaramillos. The Chief used the pop.....pause....pop.......to describe the witness stmt to her.

We have no idea what the witness actually heard. We have no idea what the witness told LE. LE can't even keep their story straight about how the neighbor came to be an ear witness.

Much like the only other ear witness, Tanya. This is the worst investigation ever released to the public. All JMOO

Of course, they do. I am sure the Jaramillos are still there and very able to tell what they heard, when and how they sounded.

imo

Pag Boi · #26 02-01-2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda777NJ

She did have a receipt, she was seen on video, she did run into and talk with EMT's, she did go to buy her husband stuff, she did buy donuts.

IMO Tiffany's alibi is rock solid and backed up by physical evidence and witnesses.

Then why didn't DN get the video? If you READ her testimony, her 3 days wasn't 3 days. She knew that the coworkers had been there. Why didn't she retain the video?

Where are the receipts? Where are the EMTs statements? Coworkers?

As has been repeated many times, only took a few minutes for someone to fire 10 shots. Tif had a pea shooter according to her husband's coworker

How do we know that Tanya was at work 170 miles away? Per Tanya, Tim was the family's "sole supporter."

Where was Grandpa? Amos? Larry? Dana? Candy? Misty? Tim Neckles? After all DN wanted everyone in the neighborhood's statement and whereabouts.

GentleBreeze · #27 02-01-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda777NJ

I have to go, company coming in an hour for the stupid football game party

Well, at least I know the food will be good and I do enjoy the commercials

Have a great day!

I'll be back later to discuss ear witness!

Enjoy! I am pulling for Arizona.

imoo

Pag Boi · #28 02-01-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GentleBreeze

Of course, they do. I am sure the Jaramillos are still there and very able to tell what they heard, when and how they sounded.

imo

Awwwwhhhh.

Should we believe DN on 11/7 or on 11/19?

denisel · #29 02-01-2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda777NJ

I have to go, company coming in an hour for the stupid football game party

Well, atleast I know the food will be good and I do enjoy the commercials

Have a great day!

I'll be back later to discuss ear witness!

Enjoy. I'm rooting for Pittsburgh!

#30 02-01-2009, 12:38 PM

After Nellie, the boxer pup was placed into Mrs. Romero's jeep the day of the murders I wonder why Nellie didn't get into the hamburger meat?

GentleBreeze · #31 02-01-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pag Boi

Awwwwhhhh.

Should we believe DN on 11/7 or on 11/19?

Neither, the actual witnesses are very capable of telling what they heard.

imo

denisel · #32 02-01-2009, 12:41 PM

I think someone post the boy and the boxer were at the grandmas.

bkwits · #33 02-01-2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawk

After Nellie, the boxer pup was placed into Mrs. Romero's jeep the day of the murders I wonder why Nellie didn't get into the hamburger meat?

Great point.

GentleBreeze · #34 02-01-2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denisel

I think someone post the boy and the boxer were at the grandmas.

Who posted that and where?

thanks.

imoo

denisel · #35 02-01-2009, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denisel

I think someone post the boy and the boxer were at the grandmas.

IMO I don't think you leave a boxer in your car for a couple of days.

bkwits · #36 02-01-2009, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denisel

I think someone post the boy and the boxer were at the grandmas.

No, Tiffany put Nellie in her Jeep.

#37 02-01-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denisel

IMO I don't think you leave a boxer in your car for a couple of days.

Not indefinitely. I mean initially when Mrs. Romero put the puppy in her Jeep when she first arrived at the residence.
My dogs would have eaten the meat, the wrapper and the bag it was in.

GentleBreeze · #38 02-01-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denisel

IMO I don't think you leave a boxer in your car for a couple of days.

I sure don't think so and surely the hamburger meat was tightly wrapped. We aren't talking about a bloodhound here but a boxer puppy.

She may have placed her where she couldn't get to the food.

imoo

denisel · #39 02-01-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkwits

No, Tiffany put Nellie in her Jeep.

Would she leave the dog in her jeep a couple of days without letting it go to the bathroom? IMO

bkwits · #40 02-01-2009, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denisel

IMO I don't think you leave a boxer in your car for a couple of days.

The meat was there from the store that Tiffany had just come from. She put Nelly in the Jeep with the meat when she got to the house and found our her husband and Tim had been murdered. Nelly was prob in the Jeep for quite awhile. Tiff and the child went to a neighbors and were interviewed by Avila. Later the child was taken to his grandma's. I think (but am not sure) that the dog stayed with Tiffany.

IMO