1-29 Hearings

[JusticeDawg©]

New Thread! We hit 30 pages on the old one!! WoW

[mrrogers]

everrybody keep your fingers crossed for good luck

Originally Posted by mrrogers

everrybody keep your fingers crossed for good luck

We need a Smiley with its fingers crossing!

Somebody email the Smiley people!

[wolfi_2]

I just think,
to present a 9 year old child to the public, maybe handcuffed and in chains is ignominiously!

[rusure?]

How is the thread "sticky" from before this thread closed? It is still opened.

[muska]

Website with all kinds of information about St Johns:
http://www.city-data.com/city/St.-Johns-Arizona.html

There is a big difference in the demographics of St Johns specifically and Apache County in general:
St Johns: White/NonHispanic -68%
Hispanic -23%
American Indian - 7%
Other - 9%
Apache County: American Indian - 79%
White/NonHispanic - 17%
Hispanic - 4.5 %
Other - 1.8%

Whoever put this website together was really detail oriented!!

[GentleBreeze]

Good Morning!

This is one of the big days in this case, I think.

For some reason, I think, Judge Roca may deny both motions after hearing both sides.

imoo

[muska]

The website that I left above also has info on crime rates in St Johns and all over Arizona as compared to national rates. As best as I can tell, St Johns has had an increase in burglaries in recent years and has a somewhat higher overall crime rate (434 per 100,000) than the national average (321 per 100,000). The burglary rate has really climbed.........maybe it was a burglary gone bad on 11/5.

[rusure?]

Originally Posted by muska

Website with all kinds of information about St Johns:
http://www.city-data.com/city/St.-Johns-Arizona.html

There is a big difference in the demographics of St Johns specifically and Apache County in general:
St Johns: White/NonHispanic -68%
Hispanic -23%
American Indian - 7%
Other - 9%
Apache County: American Indian - 79%
White/NonHispanic - 17%
Hispanic - 4.5 %
Other - 1.8%

Whoever put this website together was really detail oriented!!

This is interesting. One small town I lived in was comparitively like the demographics of St. Johns and Apache County. Someone told me in the town I lived that blacks weren't allowed to move in there. I was shocked. I could not figure out how a town could keep a race of people from moving there. The rest of the county had a much higher percentage of blacks. Wonder if folks in St. Johns had a similar "pac"? Could be a hate crime alright, especially if Tim was the target.

[rusure?]

Originally Posted by muska

The website that I left above also has info on crime rates in St Johns and all over Arizona as compared to national rates. As best as I can tell, St Johns has had an increase in burglaries in recent years and has a somewhat higher overall crime rate (434 per 100,000) than the national average (321 per 100,000). The burglary rate has really climbed.........maybe it was a burglary gone bad on 11/5.

IA. Either burglary or hate crime. I wonder how much of the family mess was from someone looking for something in particular.

[rusure?]

Originally Posted by GentleBreeze

Good Morning!

This is one of the big days in this case, I think.

For some reason, I think, Judge Roca may deny both motions after hearing both sides.

imoo

Both motions? Are you talking about the one motion today concerning dismissal of count 1 and the one next week concerning the competency issue? Is there another you are referring to for today?

Oh, and Good Morning to you too.

[rusure?]

Has the motion to quash the confinement order been granted?
I noticed in the confinement order, dated 1/6, that there were no dates in the blanks except where it says that he will be handed over to staff on 1/21? Anybody know what is going on with all that?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally Posted by rusure?

Both motions? Are you talking about the one motion today concerning dismissal of count 1 and the one next week concerning the competency issue? Is there another you are referring to for today?

Oh, and Good Morning to you too.

Hi rusure!

No, I mean ruling on count one. I think he will deny, dismissing without prejudice and will also deny dismissing with prejudice.

imoo

[rusure?]

Originally Posted by GentleBreeze

Hi rusure!

No, I mean ruling on count one. I think he will deny, dismissing without prejudice and will also deny dismissing with prejudice.

imoo

I'm sorry GentleBreeze, but your post reads as if he will grant both ways.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally Posted by rusure?

I'm sorry GentleBreeze, but your post reads as if he will grant both ways.

Grant?!!!!!

I said he will deny the motion to dismiss put in by the state and he will also deny the motion to dismiss with prejudice that the defense requested.

Maybe another day of not having enough Coke Classic yet but how is "DENIAL" a "GRANT"?

[eagargal]

Originally Posted by rusure?

This is interesting. One small town I lived in was comparitively like the demographics of St. Johns and Apache County. Someone told me in the town I lived that blacks weren't allowed to move in there. I was shocked. I could not figure out how a town could keep a race of people from moving there. The rest of the county had a much higher percentage of blacks. Wonder if folks in St. Johns had a similar "pac"? Could be a hate crime alright, especially if Tim was the target.

The northern half (if not more) of Apache county is in the Navajo Nation. It starts about 30 miles north of SJ and extends up to the Utah border. The Navajo reservation encompasses the north-eastern corner of AZ and the north-western corner of NM and also a portion of south-eastern UT and south-western CO. It is huge.

Interestingly, the Navajo Nation is on Daylight Savings Time, while AZ is not.

[rusure?]

Originally Posted by GentleBreeze

Grant?!!!!!

I said he will deny the motion to dismiss put in by the state and he will also deny the motion to dismiss with prejudice that the defense requested.

Maybe another day of not having enough Coke Classic yet but how is "DENIAL" a "GRANT"?

Because your post said:

Hi rusure!

No, I mean ruling on count one. I think he will deny, dismissing without prejudice and will also deny dismissing with prejudice.

imoo

If one denys both ways (you did not specify defense or pros on either) then one also grants both way. In my thinking anyway.

[GentleBreeze]

OK, he will not dismiss count one, imo.

He will not dismiss it with prejudice nor will he dismiss it without prejudice imo.

I don't know how simpler I can state it. So after this I give up.

Although I would like to be surprised. Maybe he will rule in favor of the State or defense today. Who really knows. I was just speculating anyway.

imo

[rusure?]

Originally Posted by GentleBreeze

OK, he will not dismiss count one, imo.

He will not dismiss it with prejudice nor will he dismiss it without prejudice imo.

I don't know how simpler I can state it. So after this I give up.

Although I would like to be surprised. Maybe he will rule in favor of the State or defense today. Who really knows. I was just speculating anyway.

imo

OK. The way you stated it the first time was clear as mud, now it is as clear as a clear blue lake.

Originally Posted by GentleBreeze

OK, he will not dismiss count one, imo.

He will not dismiss it with prejudice nor will he dismiss it without prejudice imo.

I don't know how simpler I can state it. So after this I give up.

Although I would like to be surprised. Maybe he will rule in favor of the State or defense today. Who really knows. I was just speculating anyway.

imo

To be fair all around Judge Roca won't dismiss either charge. I think you're right.
He already knows he's going to rule the boy incompetent on the 6th and any 'substantive issue' will be put aside today. (I learned this from listening to all you people who know about these things.)

Hope we get some more evidence today though. And he rules on the defence motion to suppress the search warrant(s).

[rusure?]

Originally Posted by Hawk

To be fair all around Judge Roca won't dismiss either charge. I think you're right.
He already knows he's going to rule the boy incompetent on the 6th and any 'substantive issue' will be put aside today. (I learned this from listening to all you people who know about these things.)

Hope we get some more evidence today though. And he rules on the defence motion to suppress the search warrant(s).

Perhaps he'll go ahead and rule dismissed with predjudice on both counts so he will not have to go through the rest of the trial. The DA opened the door for that course of action. Then, maybe someone will come up with the truth.

Originally Posted by rusure?

Perhaps he'll go ahead and rule dismissed with predjudice on both counts so he will not have to go through the rest of the trial. The DA opened the door for that course of action. Then, maybe someone will come up with the truth.

Holy cow!
Is that too much to expect? Would the evidence ever be public then. I guess the gag order would be null and void?

[wolfi_2]

Originally Posted by mrrogers

everrybody keep your fingers crossed for good luck

I will do it right now

[rusure?]

Originally Posted by Hawk

Holy cow!
Is that too much to expect? Would the evidence ever be public then. I guess the gag order would be null and void?

With this case, I believe anything is possible.

[FDInLaw]

Is there any hope for a more thorough investigation? IMO this is the only way to resolve this case.

Prayers for the judge. . . may he have wisdom.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally Posted by Hawk

To be fair all around Judge Roca won't dismiss either charge. I think you're right.
He already knows he's going to rule the boy incompetent on the 6th and any 'substantive issue' will be put aside today. (I learned this from listening to all you people who know about these things.)

Hope we get some more evidence today though. And he rules on the defense motion to suppress the search warrant(s).

Well the only thing that give me pause is he has now decided to have a hearing on it, when in the past he said he wasn't going to address it or any other substantive issues, until the competency issue was known. So he may have had time to reflect on it and has changed his mind, which of course, he is entitled to do.

While we think he is going to rule that he is age incompetent we have no guarantee of that. We have not heard what the second expert's opinion is nor do we know if JR may think the boy could be reassessed in the 240 day time, since the boy is now nine. He uses the experts opinion as a guide but it is up to him solely what is decided in the end.

imoo

[rusure?]

Originally Posted by Boltzfan

Kiss the blarney stone, rub your budda's...keep positive thoughts. I don't think I will get one thing done today at work. I'll be watching the news (and this site all day). I'll let you know what local talk on the radio is today.

Please do. I imagine local talk on the radio will get the word out before the court site will.

[rusure?]

Originally Posted by GentleBreeze

Well the only thing that give me pause is he has now decided to have a hearing on it, when in the past he said he wasn't going to address it or any other substantive issues, until the competency issue was known. So he may have had time to reflect on it and has changed his mind, which of course, he is entitled to do.

While we think he is going to rule that he is age incompetent we have no guarantee of that. We have not heard what the second expert's opinion is nor do we know if JR may think the boy could be reassessed in the 240 day time, since the boy is now nine. He uses the experts opinion as a guide but it is up to him solely what is decided in the end.

imoo

I think he is holding the hearing to shut the DA up. If he did not hold a hearing after a motion and a reply to the motion from the DA, he pretty much has his back against the wall because the DA could go over his head again on appeal. Maybe he is holding the hearing to show the DA not to go over his head to get what he wants. I think the judge knew what he was doing in the way he responded the first time, and the Supreme Court showed JR knew what he was doing.

[rusure?]

Originally Posted by FDInLaw

Is there any hope for a more thorough investigation? IMO this is the only way to resolve this case.

Prayers for the judge. . . may he have wisdom.

Perhaps a more thorough investigation by a PI to at least clear the boys name and find the killer(s) at the same time. I don't believe that LE or the DA will continue with it in order to save face.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally Posted by rusure?

I think he is holding the hearing to shut the DA up. If he did not hold a hearing after a motion and a reply to the motion from the DA, he pretty much has his back against the wall because the DA could go over his head again on appeal. Maybe he is holding the hearing to show the DA not to go over his head to get what he wants. I think the judge knew what he was doing in the way he responded the first time, and the Supreme Court showed JR knew what he was doing.

I just don't see Judge Roca as holding this against the DA or has some vendetta against the State. He knows the DA had a perfect right to appeal the decision. It has been said that JR was a Prosecutor himself.

Actually the Appeals Court did say that Judge Roca had it wrong and he could rule before the incompetency issue is resolved. They also said he was using the adult competency standard which is not the same as a juvenile being assessed for incompetency.

imoo

[Cherishlove]

Originally Posted by wolfi_2

I just think,
to present a 9 year old child to the public, maybe handcuffed and in chains is ignominiously!

It's leaves me feeling sick inside to think of it, maybe we can all take a moment and say a prayer for this little boy. I sure hope this comes to end for this small child soon,so he can be with his Mother and get the therapy he will need now. It's gone on too long now.

[FDInLaw]

Originally Posted by rusure?

Perhaps a more thorough investigation by a PI to at least clear the boys name and find the killer(s) at the same time. I don't believe that LE or the DA will continue with it in order to save face.

This is where the public comes in. Pressure needs to applied or justice does not have a prayer IMO.

[rusure?]

Originally Posted by GentleBreeze

I just don't see Judge Roca as holding this against the DA or has some vendetta against the State. He knows the DA had a perfect right to appeal the decision. It has been said that JR was a Prosecutor himself.

Actually the Appeals Court did say that Judge Roca had it wrong and he could rule before the incompetency issue is resolved. They also said he was using the adult competency standard which is not the same as a juvenile being assessed for incompetency.

imoo

Actually, the court said that JR was not bound to wait for the competency hearing before ruling. That I believe is where the adult standard came in. Since he was not bound to wait, it also means he can wait if he wants. They didn't say he was forced to rule.

I think we are speculating anyway. It would be nice to be in his head and then we would not have to sepculate. Or we could be learning a little patience as well.

[JusticeDawg©]

Weaing my Lapis ring and necklace- Lapis=Justice. Burn a blue or white(innocence) candle if you have one.
I don't have a buddah

Justice.....
That is all I want is Justice.

Justice for CR
Justice for VR and TR (No matter what he did with his life)

This boy does not deserve to be lock up in solitary. He is 9 yrs old. IF he did this, or covered/helped someone, I'd like to know the reason why. I'd like to see him get help.

These men did not deserve to die. I want Justice for them. I hope the judge makes it known that the killer/s will not get away with this. I feel this Judge will do the right thing. I have faith.

I want to see CR released to his mom today. That is all I have to say.

[rusure?]

Originally Posted by FDInLaw

This is where the public comes in. Pressure needs to applied or justice does not have a prayer IMO.

You are 100% correct in that assesment. The public cannot wait until this case appears as an episode on "Cold Case" (if it is still on TV by then)

[PensiveOne]

This is amazing. Just think how easy killing with a .22 will be now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd1SRtkhh-U

[rusure?]

Originally Posted by PensiveOne

This is amazing. Just think how easy killing with a .22 will be now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd1SRtkhh-U

That is a very scary thing to see.

[JusticeDawg©]

Originally Posted by HotNostril

With my luck I'd mix it up and shoot my ear off.

That wouldn't be just your luck.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally Posted by HotNostril

With my luck I'd mix it up and shoot my ear off.

LOL Me too!

[JusticeDawg©]

Dimissal of murder charge against 9-year-old sought
January 29th, 2009An Apache County judge is expected to consider whether to dismiss one of two murder charges against a 9-year-old boy.

http://www.azfamily.com/video/localn...ml?nvid=326550


Put up or shut up. LOL