3 infants removed from cockroach and rat infested home in Chicago- 1/3/08

[kaylynn]

CHICAGO — Rats and roaches scurried across the floor, empty bottles of alcohol lay strewn about, waste backed up in a toilet, and it was cold.

Chicago police alleged Sunday that those were the squalid conditions in a West Side apartment where officers found three babies, aged 4 months, 14 months and 16 months.

Harrison District Lt. John Andrews called the case "shocking and appalling."

Officers entered the home Saturday night, first finding the older babies, both boys, on the floor near exposed electrical wires and a space heater, according to police.

Only after officers heard another cry later did they find the baby girl between a mattress and a wall, Andrews said. He alleged that adults in the room hadn't mentioned the girl.

"If not for alertness of the officers and luck, that girl might have died," he said.

Three adults, who told police they lived in the apartment, have been charged in the case.

Kevin Wysinger, 21, and Latrice Johnson, 23, were charged with three misdemeanor counts of endangering the life of a child and three misdemeanor counts of contributing to the neglect of a child; Shirley Fenner, 21, faces one count of the same charges.

The babies were taken to a hospital for observation, then turned over to the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services, who placed them in the care of other relatives.

The adults charged are the parents of at least one child, Andrews said, but he declined to say who were the parents of which children.

Family members took issue with police accounts.

Shirley Johnson, the mother of Latrice Johnson and Shirley Fenner, told the Chicago Tribune that the apartment is hers, and that neither her daughters nor the babies live there.

She challenged police descriptions of the apartment, denying it is infested with rats and roaches. She also disputed accounts that the baby girl was hidden on a floor behind a mattress.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,475764,00.html

[Amy]

Originally Posted by jamesb68

if the apartment was as bad as they say it was I am sure they have pictures and video of it, if not, the family should take their own pictures and video

Guess the family would have plenty of time to take pictures, the mother of the women says the apartment is hers. Hopefully there are police photos, too, as the mother would also be able to clean the place up before she took photos.

[Dogmatic]

Thankfully, all three of the innocent babies are alive.

Here's hoping this brings them the life, protection, and love they deserve.

[evalles]

Originally Posted by jamesb68

why were the police there, was the baby left on the bed as the adults went to see what the police wanted and then rolled off the bed, were there really rats in there, did they call animal control? or the apartment s owner to make them aware of this issue as all the appartments would most likely be affected as well? this story sounds kinda fishy to me

Just curious as to what caused your obvious distrust of the system ?
Could you possibly think our wonderful CPS wouldn't be looking out for the children's best interests ?

[evalles]

Originally Posted by grammybear

Ember, IA. We have no way of knowing what or how the relatives will treat these children. It just seems like there has not been adequate time to check out the people whho were given guardianship. My one daughter who got custody of her nephew who had been in the juvinelle system and then a foster family. It took time for meetings and getting their home inspected as well as a very thorough back ground check. I think it took somewhere like 5 months before this poor kid could move in with them. That is sop here in Utah and I believe it would have been harder if this had been a baby.

I just pray that these babies are in the loving care of someone who really cares what happens to them.

jmoo

I think kids should always go with family if possible. It's much less traumatic than being sent to live with strangers.

[evalles]

Originally Posted by ember

Family members can still be strangers. If these family members had no idea these babies were living in these horid conditions my guess would be they are strangers.

If they knew they were living there and did nothing, they should not have gotten custody.

We don't know what they knew. I haven't seen pictures to know how bad the house really was. Were the kids beaten or abused or did they just live in a dirty house ? Could they have moved the kids AND their mother to another location and WORKED to keep the family together ?
I don't think a parent and child should be permanently separated because of a dirty house. It's a fixable problem with an easy solution - clean it up. Helping the family would be a lot healthier for all and less expensive than the years of foster care these kids are facing.

I still think kids shoud be with family whenever possible.
Kids need to know their heritage - where they come from.
Severing family ties is harmful in my opinion and responsible for a lot of the problems we're facing in society now.

[evalles]

Originally Posted by ember

We do know how bad it was. It was worse than just a dirty house.

No heat, no running water and no food found on the premises, and police found a toilet overflowing with waste and an open front door with a sheet covering the doorway to separate the living space from a dark hallway and stairwell.

The children, boys ages 14 and 16 months, were on the floor with the rodents, wearing winter coats and surrounded by numerous open containers of alcoholic beverages, exposed electrical wires and a space heater, according to police.
http://www.myfoxchicago.com/myfox/pa...Y&pageId=3.2.1

I do not believe kids should be with people who endager their lives PERIOD. If severing family ties means they're no long in danger than that is what is the best for the child.

According to one of the grandmothers, they didn't even live there.
How do we know that they weren't there helping somebody move or clean or just picking somebody up ?

Until I hear all the facts and both sides of the story, I can't pass judgement.
I don't even know why the cops were there. Was it for a report regarding the kids or did somebody have a warrant ?

I respect your opinion but it doesn't change mine, that kids should be with their family if at all possible. I'm aware it's not always possible and that makes me sad.

[Dogmatic]

I don't know if the children lived there or were just visiting, but the brief description indicates to me that it wasn't a fit place for the children to be at for even a short time.

I'm sure there is a lot more that will come out about this story. In the meantime, I'm glad the kiddos are out of there, and I hope they are being loved, sheltered, and cared for properly

[evalles]

Originally Posted by forensicpsy

The house belongs to the grandmother. The daughters and grandchildren were visiting. The grandmother should be thrown in jail IMO.

The police were called because the two daughters were fighting.


imo

Good to know. Is it true that the kids were placed with family ?

[evalles]

Originally Posted by forensicpsy

That's what I read and frankly it pizzes me off.

The custodian for the children gets plenty of money for their care.


imo

I think it's better than being given to strangers, but if they didn't live there I don't understand why they weren't just told to leave.

[Details]

Can't just tell the parents to leave and ignore that they exposed their children to a hazardous situation. And parents under investigation lie - the claim that they don't live there should be investigated. And whoever let an infant get trapped between a mattress and a wall - a place where infants suffocate - needs to be checked into.

[evalles]

Originally Posted by Details

Can't just tell the parents to leave and ignore that they exposed their children to a hazardous situation. And parents under investigation lie - the claim that they don't live there should be investigated. And whoever let an infant get trapped between a mattress and a wall - a place where infants suffocate - needs to be checked into.

If the report is true.
It's not fair to say they're lying if you don't know.
There are plenty of links on in-sessions that have documented LE lying when it suits their purpose.

The media only presents one side and without hearing both or at least seeing some pictures, I don't know what's fact.
I would hope they would have photographed the scene. Are there any links with pics ?

Originally Posted by evalles

According to one of the grandmothers, they didn't even live there.
How do we know that they weren't there helping somebody move or clean or just picking somebody up ?

Until I hear all the facts and both sides of the story, I can't pass judgement.
I don't even know why the cops were there. Was it for a report regarding the kids or did somebody have a warrant ?

I respect your opinion but it doesn't change mine, that kids should be with their family if at all possible. I'm aware it's not always possible and that makes me sad.

Well according to this:

http://www.chicagocontent.com/?p=1786

The three adults, who told police they lived in the apartment, are parents of at least one of the children, but police were not saying who is related to whom to avoid identifying the children.

I don't know what to think just yet. If the apartment was just cold rather than hazardous, if they don't live there but were just visiting, I don't see them jumping to take the children. It's not like there are a lot of resources for placing children.

Add to that, how do you justify taking these children, when there are thousands of homeless families across the country. Are we going to start taking all children from families that don't live in a suburban raised ranches with a weekly maid service?

I'll admit from what I saw it doesn't appear a great place to raise children, but I haven't seen enough to know the reported conditions are true.

I find it extremely suspicious the three arrested adults claimed to live there when arrested, but suddenly the next day Mom says they don't. So if they don't, where do the children live? It seems a very simple and easily verified piece of information.

According to the reports I've read, LE was still there 30 minutes after finding the first two children because they were waiting for a photographer. I have no doubt there is ample documentation regarding conditions before the family spent the night cleaning & before the media was allowed entry.

Grandma says “You don’t see no roaches because it’s cold”, when talking to the media. But there were space heaters going that night. Getting off your butt and using a broom and dustpan for a few hours can work wonders, as will shoving everything under the beds and into the closets & cutting the heat to drive off the vermin.

[evalles]

Originally Posted by interested

Well according to this:

http://www.chicagocontent.com/?p=1786



I don't know what to think just yet. If the apartment was just cold rather than hazardous, if they don't live there but were just visiting, I don't see them jumping to take the children. It's not like there are a lot of resources for placing children.

Add to that, how do you justify taking these children, when there are thousands of homeless families across the country. Are we going to start taking all children from families that don't live in a suburban raised ranches with a weekly maid service?

I'll admit from what I saw it doesn't appear a great place to raise children, but I haven't seen enough to know the reported conditions are true.

I find it extremely suspicious the three arrested adults claimed to live there when arrested, but suddenly the next day Mom says they don't. So if they don't, where do the children live? It seems a very simple and easily verified piece of information.

According to the reports I've read, LE was still there 30 minutes after finding the first two children because they were waiting for a photographer. I have no doubt there is ample documentation regarding conditions before the family spent the night cleaning & before the media was allowed entry.

Grandma says “You don’t see no roaches because it’s cold”, when talking to the media. But there were space heaters going that night. Getting off your butt and using a broom and dustpan for a few hours can work wonders, as will shoving everything under the beds and into the closets & cutting the heat to drive off the vermin.

The mother of the other child was arrested after returning from the store.
Maybe that was to take care of the "no food" situation.
The kids were also reportedly in good condition.
It doesn't say anything about them being bruised or underweight.
I despise grocery shopping. I work full time & we order take out alot.
There are days you wouldn't find much in my fridge either.
I know cops can get mean if they get po'd.

Originally Posted by evalles

The mother of the other child was arrested after returning from the store.
Maybe that was to take care of the "no food" situation.
The kids were also reportedly in good condition.
It doesn't say anything about them being bruised or underweight.
I despise grocery shopping. I work full time & we order take out alot.
There are days you wouldn't find much in my fridge either.
I know cops can get mean if they get po'd.

Well that's the part that has me unconvinced taking the kids was necessary or appropriate. They were in good health & dressed appropriately. The apartment was cold, but they had winter jackets on when the police arrived. I didn't see any information about how the baby was dressed, the boys had jackets on.

Yet I saw mention in one of the articles that there was an ongoing investigation by child services.

I dunno, I just don't have enough information to form an opinion yet.

But, I've been infuriated with authorities not removing children during an investigation only to have the child end up dead or permanently disabled while they putz around investigating too.

So, I don't think I'm going to criticize LE removing them to be on the safe side. They're with family & safe which is the most important thing. If this is all an exaggeration they'll soon be home with their parents.

[Cooper]

Originally Posted by evalles

I think kids should always go with family if possible. It's much less traumatic than being sent to live with strangers.

Not so. I'm assuming you are not a social worker. I am.

[Details]

I worry about any automatic, "send the kids to family" - often enough a screwed up parent was screwed up by their parents, who screwed up their brothers and sisters too - and all of whom might pressure the kids to recant for the sake of family. It's sometimes, often, likely most of the time the best choice - but it should never be the automatic choice.

[CHICANA]

Originally Posted by Cooper

Not so. I'm assuming you are not a social worker. I am.

No I'm definitely not a social worker and don't want to be. I have a neighbor who is though and she can be seen on her back porch getting drunk & high every weekend when it's warm out. We used to feed her dog because she'd take off with her boyfriend and not leave it any food. Then one day it just disappeared.
I am a mother and having been one for 18 years I feel my opinion is just as valid as yours.
You don't think a child is traumatized by being taken away from his/her family and placed in a foreign environment with people they've never met before ?
I would imagine that even a child that is in a less than perfect home would suffer.
I guess I'm old school. I still believe that blood is thicker than water and family ties are extremely important and when severed can cause major dissociative problems as the child grows.

[Details]

Many kids, some of whom have survived to grow up - others that did not, can tell you just how very thick blood is. Family is only as good as the family itself is. And CPS doesn't deal with less than perfect homes and families - they deal with the worst homes and families. Beating your children, keeping them where they might just accidentally suffocate, failing to feed them, putting them in danger - that's not "less than perfect" - that's bad. Sometimes it runs in families -an abused child becomes an abusive mother who has accepted that as the norm, as her parents taught her. Giving her child to "family" can be the worst thing possible.

Post here and there for awhile, and you'll hear about some of those families, and even, when someone feels they can stand the pain of talking about their past, what an amazing and wonderful difference it is when they get into a foster home, even when it is "less than perfect".


Oh, and knowing one CPS worker with "less than perfect" life choices doesn't mean any more than knowing one mother with "less than perfect" life choices - one individual doesn't prove what they all are like. CPS workers get to see the worst abuse, and all too often find out that they cannot reach the bar of proof required to help the children, sometimes not until it's too late, their every decision, positive and negative is questioned and considered wrong, like anyone, they get no credit for the right choice, but infinite condemnation for the wrong one, and with the stakes being a child's life. It's not easy.

[Elle]

I am happy these children are safe. I am aware no system is perfect. I am aware mistakes and rash judgement do sometimes lead to children being removed when they should not be. I am also aware of the many lives of children that have been saved.
I am also happy to NOT be reading an article stating that one/all of these children died/injured because LE and CPS failed to act.

imo