Jan. 2nd

[wolfi_2]

just want to start a new threat, well, this is great site, the only thing I really don´t like, is the always changing threat address.

[Crispy]

Woo Hoo!! We are back home!

After reading through the available reports I don't see one mention of the back door of the residence.
Was it locked when the cops arrived?
The boy said he didn't use it because it's always locked. Seems to me it's a very important part of the investigation. Yet LE didn't note it.

Another thing. What good is the 911 call transcript when it doesn't have a time of transmission/received recorded? I think these calls are partly, if not fully, funded by the Federal government and it's mandated that these calls be time stamped. It seems amateurish for St. Johns PD to have released this transcript without the activity times stated.

[suzanne]

Originally Posted by Hawk

Another thing. What good is the 911 call transcript when it doesn't have a time of transmission/received recorded? I think these calls are partly, if not fully, funded by the Federal government and it's mandated that these calls be time stamped. It seems amateurish for St. Johns PD to have released this transcript without the activity times stated.

I agree with you.

Tanya Romans Witness Statement has no witness information whatsoever except her name, statement, and signature. Not even a date/time.
The info isn't blacked out, which would be understandable for public release, it appears she never filled it out, nor did SGT. Rodriguez ask for it.
That would be unacceptable in most jurisdictions. The cops here in my county are taught to 'go by the book', or pay dearly. Especially in regards to reports that will go to court. (And the public record).

It appears that Apache County, AZ simply 'makes it up as they go'. Now, and, historically.

[bkwits]

Originally Posted by Hawk

After reading through the available reports I don't see one mention of the back door of the residence.
Was it locked when the cops arrived?
The boy said he didn't use it because it's always locked. Seems to me it's a very important part of the investigation. Yet LE didn't note it.

You know, I wondered about the doors early on. I think that maybe the front door was left unlocked, since he mentions that the back door is always locked. They didn't ask the boy that. At least not on record.

Why did Mrs. Romans ask her husband, "Who's that", when referring to the child's voice (she said 'little boy') she claims to have heard? She later told LE that she could recognize the boys voice from having met him (once) previously.
Then she claims to have asked her husband, "What did he say"?
Would she not have known what he said had she actually heard the voice? Why ask?

Please read her report. Does it sound sincere to you?

Originally Posted by bkwits

You know, I wondered about the doors early on. I think that maybe the front door was left unlocked, since he mentions that the back door is always locked. They didn't ask the boy that. At least not on record.

Right. If it is a regular door lock in the knob that can be engaged from the inside when existing to the outside, then it isn't so important.
However, if it's a dead bolt, not keyed but levered, it means someone could enter the front door, exit the back door, and the dead bolt would be unlocked. Even if the doorknob lock in engaged.

The boy said he saw someone enter the front door but didn't see the person exit. If that's true, and the dead bolt was turned from the inside (if there is one) it could explain a lot. The shooter(s) could have ran out the back, jumped in a white car missing the rear hubcaps, and be gone. It ain't like the neighbors were watching.

I haven't read any information about this. But then again, it's Apache County AZ.

Just a thought.

Originally Posted by bkwits

You know, I wondered about the doors early on. I think that maybe the front door was left unlocked, since he mentions that the back door is always locked. They didn't ask the boy that. At least not on record.

They didn't ask him either because they didn't think to, or because 'They already had their man' and didn't want to confuse matters with substantial, relevant, get to the truth questions.

But then again, its Apache County AZ.

Originally Posted by Hawk

Why did Mrs. Romans ask her husband, "Who's that", when referring to the child's voice (she said 'little boy') she claims to have heard? She later told LE that she could recognize the boys voice from having met him (once) previously.
Then she claims to have asked her husband, "What did he say"?
Would she not have known what he said had she actually heard the voice? Why ask?

Please read her report. Does it sound sincere to you?

It reads like a lie. Just as it is.

Originally Posted by bkwits

You know, I wondered about the doors early on. I think that maybe the front door was left unlocked, since he mentions that the back door is always locked. They didn't ask the boy that. At least not on record.

Bet Tiffany could get in and out of it.

Originally Posted by Justice_Dawg

It reads like a lie. Just as it is.

Well! There is still life on this board!


Go Falcons!

Originally Posted by Justice_Dawg

Bet Tiffany could get in and out of it.

I meant the drug dealers/gang members in the white car. Tiffany couldn't have pulled this off in million years. Neither could have Mrs. Romans. Directly, anyway.

Originally Posted by Hawk

I meant the drug dealers/gang members in the white car. Tiffany couldn't have pulled this off in million years. Neither could have Mrs. Romans. Directly, anyway.

Why couldn't Tiffany?

Originally Posted by Hawk

Well! There is still life on this board!


Go Falcons!

Falcon's got a wildcard too eh?

[shelby77]

Originally Posted by Hawk

Why did Mrs. Romans ask her husband, "Who's that", when referring to the child's voice (she said 'little boy') she claims to have heard? She later told LE that she could recognize the boys voice from having met him (once) previously.
Then she claims to have asked her husband, "What did he say"?
Would she not have known what he said had she actually heard the voice? Why ask?

Please read her report. Does it sound sincere to you?

Those same things occured to me while reading it also, along with the fact that the entire report is half a** filled out, their key piece of evidence indicating the boys presence at the crime scene, you'd think someone would at least go to the trouble in ensuring all the i's were dotted and t's were crossed so to speak. What a joke.
Then again if you look into the Joel Barr story and start to poke around the characters over in Apache County, it's not surprising, but it certainly is appalling! It seems to me they all play by their own rule book over, justice be damned. What a shame. They lost all credibility when it comes to me thats for sure.

Originally Posted by Justice_Dawg

Why couldn't Tiffany?

She, or Mrs. Romans, didn't have the opportunity according to the timeline evidence. Or the stomach for it, in my opinion.

These murders are so horrific, and overdone, that the killer(s) was doing one of three things;

Enjoying the kill.
Hated the victims so much he/she took the last head shots for vengeance.
Were afraid for their life should the victims jump up and get them (as a child would).

This thing would not have been pretty to watch. The shootings took time.
The victims didn't just lay down voluntarily and die. There probably would have been vocal cries, maybe loud, perhaps involuntarily, and a lot of after shot body movement, even if slight quivers. Or even after death nerve movement.
Tremendous blood flow after the head shots would have been visually devastating and probably stopped an average angered human.
Immediate remorse, or fear, would have forced them to seek a safe place.
Yet the shooter fired again. Then again. Then again. Then again. Then again.

These are hateful murders that turn the stomach of American society. This kind of killing requires a special kind of killer.
One that runs out of bullets.

[bkwits]

Originally Posted by Hawk

She, or Mrs. Romans, didn't have the opportunity according to the timeline evidence. Or the stomach for it, in my opinion.

These murders are so horrific, and overdone, that the killer(s) was doing one of three things;

Enjoying the kill.
Hated the victims so much he/she took the last head shots for vengeance.
Were afraid for their life should the victims jump up and get them (as a child would).

This thing would not have been pretty to watch. The shootings took time.
The victims didn't just lay down voluntarily and die. There probably would have been vocal cries, maybe loud, perhaps involuntarily, and a lot of after shot body movement, even if slight quivers. Or even after death nerve movement.
Tremendous blood flow after the head shots would have been visually devastating and probably stopped an average angered human.
Immediate remorse, or fear, would have forced them to seek a safe place.
Yet the shooter fired again. Then again. Then again. Then again. Then again.

These are hateful murders that turn the stomach of American society. This kind of killing requires a special kind of killer.
One that runs out of bullets.

I wonder how Tanya didn't hear the shots, the cries of Vincent, but heard and recognized the boy's voice.

Originally Posted by bkwits

I wonder how Tanya didn't hear the shots, the cries of Vincent, but heard and recognized the boy's voice.

Mrs. Romans didn't hear the shots, so she claims, but her husband may have. Maybe he didn't tell her so not to worry her.

[muska]

Where is Tanya Romans' witness statement? Is that at the Child's Voice MySpace page? I've had parents in from out of town and kids home from school and college. I've been trying to keep up with the reading but haven't managed much more than that. How about the newer police interviews? They're at Child's Voice, right? Thanks a lot!!!

Here's the deal;

Had a Mexican gang, or an irate Navajo, done the deed they would have used a 12 gauge shot gun, or at least a suppressor Ruger .22 then picked up the empty casings. The killings would have taken about 4 seconds each, with two/three head shots to both victims. They would not have done it at Romeros home and blamed it on the boy.
Why would they? One group is illegal anyway. Mexico ain't that far away.
They would have done the deed anywhere that was convenient to them (on the dirt road toward town or the lonesome bar they hung out in). A safe place. Under darkness. Romeros residence would not have been.

If either Mrs. Romero or Mrs. Romans wanted to do the deed and planned it, where is the evidence for that?

Originally Posted by muska

Where is Tanya Romans' witness statement? Is that at the Child's Voice MySpace page? I've had parents in from out of town and kids home from school and college. I've been trying to keep up with the reading but haven't managed much more than that. How about the newer police interviews? They're at Child's Voice, right? Thanks a lot!!!

It's at the bottom of Mr. Hogel's statements.

[muska]

Originally Posted by Hawk

It's at the bottom of Mr. Hogel's statements.

Sorry, but I don't know where Hogel's statement is. I see listings for Womack and Jones at Child's Voice but not Hogel. Can you (or anyone who's here reading right now) let me know where to find it? Thanks!!

The truth will be one day be told that the boy did it. Alone. Hatred. Revenge. Depression. Skillful execution.
History will say he was the most notorious shooter of the early 21th century.

His case will be studied for years to come. I hope the historians will be able to tell us why he did it.

It is an amazing story. Both from the heart and from lucky circumstance.

I'm looking for naysayers. Are there any?

[bkwits]

Originally Posted by Hawk

The truth will be one day be told that the boy did it. Alone. Hatred. Revenge. Depression. Skillful execution.
History will say he was the most notorious shooter of the early 21th century.

His case will be studied for years to come. I hope the historians will be able to tell us why he did it.

It is an amazing story. Both from the heart and from lucky circumstance.

Well, I've never said for certain that the child did NOT do it, but I am far from convinced that he did.

All criminals are not smart. In fact, most are not smart. I've not yet seen anything that points to the boy except that he was around there.

To me, the confession points more towards innocence than guilt, but there are other factors that are troubling.

Remember, we have not seen any evidence yet. There is undoubtedly some unknown factor at work in this case. IMO

[Details]

Originally Posted by Hawk

I'm looking for naysayers. Are there any?

You've been on these threads long enough, I believe, to know exactly how many naysayers there are, and a plain unsubstantiated statement isn't really much worth a response, from me.

Hatred and revenge - sounds like emotions generated by marital difficulties, thugs, and custody disputes. Hardly like an 8 year old boy that no one saw any isssues with.

Originally Posted by bkwits

Well, I've never said for certain that the child did NOT do it, but I am far from convinced that he did.

All criminals are not smart. In fact, most are not smart. I've not yet seen anything that points to the boy except that he was around there.

To me, the confession points more towards innocence than guilt, but there are other factors that are troubling.

Remember, we have not seen any evidence yet. There is undoubtedly some unknown factor at work in this case. IMO

The evidence that has been released not only points to the boy but validates his confession.

Originally Posted by Details

You've been on these threads long enough, I believe, to know exactly how many naysayers there are, and a plain unsubstantiated statement isn't really much worth a response, from me.

Most often among jurors (which of course we aren't) unsubstantiated is subjective.

Originally Posted by Details

You've been on these threads long enough, I believe, to know exactly how many naysayers there are, and a plain unsubstantiated statement isn't really much worth a response, from me.

Hatred and revenge - sounds like emotions generated by marital difficulties, thugs, and custody disputes. Hardly like an 8 year old boy that no one saw any isssues with.

You don't kill a human being for no reason. Emotion is the biggest killer in the world!

[Details]

Originally Posted by Hawk

The evidence that has been released not only points to the boy but validates his confession.

How is his confession validated? Not a detail from it is true. The two men were not shot two times, nor was the father shot in the chest, nor was the gun placed in the closet.

[Details]

Originally Posted by Hawk

You don't kill a human being for no reason. Emotion is the biggest killer in the world!

And these two men, Tim in particular, had plenty of people with more than enough reason to be "emotional" towards them. How many murders are committed when a husband cheats on a wife? Out of outrage over a upcoming divorce? Due to custody battles? Due to finding out that you're just the other woman? Due to drug deals? Due to fights at work or in bars?

Originally Posted by Details

How is his confession validated? Not a detail from it is true. The two men were not shot two times, nor was the father shot in the chest, nor was the gun placed in the closet.

The confession validates the evidence.

[wolfi_2]

Hawk, I’m just amused how you act nearly alone on this threat the whole night.
-I don’t see the hate factor in this (for the boy), he should had have a good relationship with his dad. And I really don’t see how he should do the shootings if they where so horrible as you stated, without being afraid after the first shoot’s. I still see no reason for the boy doing that.

Originally Posted by wolfi_2

I’m just amused how you act nearly alone on this threat the whole night.
-I don’t see the hate factor in this (for the boy), he should had have a good relationship with his dad. And I really don’t see how he should do the shootings if they where so horrible as you stated, without being afraid after the first shoot’s. I still see no reason for the boy doing that.

Okay.
Then who did the murders?
And how?

[wolfi_2]

Originally Posted by Hawk

Okay.
Then who did the murders?
And how?

I don´t know, but I think it wasn´t the boy.

[Details]

Originally Posted by Hawk

The confession validates the evidence.

I provided the exact ways in which it does not. You provided a blank meaningless empty assertion. I think that's my answer.

Originally Posted by wolfi_2

I don´t know, but I think it wasn´t the boy.

Well. These men did not commit suicide! What happened?

[Details]

Originally Posted by wolfi_2

Hawk, I’m just amused how you act nearly alone on this threat the whole night.
-I don’t see the hate factor in this (for the boy), he should had have a good relationship with his dad. And I really don’t see how he should do the shootings if they where so horrible as you stated, without being afraid after the first shoot’s. I still see no reason for the boy doing that.

The neighbors, those who knew the family, saw them day by day, saw a good relationship, and a good boy.

On the other hand - the bullet hole in Tim's truck due to a bar fight, his criminal record, his current relationships with a wife and a girlfriend - all of these provide many people with reason to hate.