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[texski]

houston chronicle, dec. 26
s are pure. This can't be a crime because Heavenly Father is the one that tells (jailed FLDS leader Warren Jeffs) when a girl is ready to get married ..."

An unnamed 13-year-old girl seized from a polygamist compound. She was asked whether a 13-year-old girl who married a 40-year-old man and had a baby would be considered sexually abused.

_ "This case is about adult men commanding sex from underage children."

Child Protective Services, in an appeal to the state Supreme Court, defending its seizure of more than 400 children from a polygamist compound.

_ "On the record before us, removal of the children was not warranted."

Texas Supreme Court, ordering children from the polygamist compound be returned to their parents.
s are pure. This can't be a crime because Heavenly Father is the one that tells (jailed FLDS leader Warren Jeffs) when a girl is ready to get married ..."

An unnamed 13-year-old girl seized from a polygamist compound. She was asked whether a 13-year-old girl who married a 40-year-old man and had a baby would be considered sexually abused.

_ "This case is about adult men commanding sex from underage children."

Child Protective Services, in an appeal to the state Supreme Court, defending its seizure of more than 400 children from a polygamist compound.

_ "On the record before us, removal of the children was not warranted."

Texas Supreme Court, ordering children from the polygamist compound be returned to their parents.
s are pure. This can't be a crime because Heavenly Father is the one that tells (jailed FLDS leader Warren Jeffs) when a girl is ready to get married ..."

An unnamed 13-year-old girl seized from a polygamist compound. She was asked whether a 13-year-old girl who married a 40-year-old man and had a baby would be considered sexually abused.

_ "This case is about adult men commanding sex from underage children."

Child Protective Services, in an appeal to the state Supreme Court, defending its seizure of more than 400 children from a polygamist compound.

_ "On the record before us, removal of the children was not warranted."

Texas Supreme Court, ordering children from the polygamist compound be returned to their parents.

[TealMermaid]

Originally Posted by juliekan

OOPS
here, Walton posted it

http://www.leftturnfilms.com/

Thanks. Wow that looks interesting. I can't wait to see the film.

[walton]

Originally Posted by Imperfect3

So we went on a road trip between Christmas and New Year's. We drove from northern NV down to Las Vegas, then over to Flagstaff to visit relatives. Our trip took us through Kingman, twice. I waved hello to Warren for each of you.

Good to see you.

Are you that close to Kingman? Up for an adventure?

Go look in the windows and tell me if you see Warren sitting on his cot. Now just about everyone appears the same height when they are sitting down, but even Warrens height should give him away.

If he is laying down his feet should be dangling over the edge unless of course he is in a fetal position which would of course take up the whole cot.

Now if he is on his knees still praying, his head and shoulders should be much higher than the door lock thingy.

And if the deputy comes out and asks you what your doing, tell him that Walton says she is tired of the games and I wanna know for sure that is Warren Steed Jeffs sitting in that jail cell.

Now if that female deputy comes out.... Run!! I think she might be fed up with my little antics.

All this was said in fun. Please no one try this. I am not sure but I think a person could get into trouble for it. If I lived closer I would try it. It probably cost me a night in the slammer and a fine, but I would be measuring everything so I could get the dimensions down pat. I'd also be bellering like an old cow calling out Warrens name in hopes that he'd answer me.

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_11320432

Please read the comments made after this story. A very long read but so worth it.

Some of the info shared is old news. Some of the info there are things that I've read about and could not put the pieces together. Some of the info is new even to me.

[walton]

I had tried calling but couldn't get thru. I sent off an e-mail and got a response back.

The kids are fine.

http://thehopeorg.org/ Lots of info here

Here is a phone number and mailing addy if anyone is interested.

The HOPE Organization
115 North 300 West, Building B Suite 101
Washington, UT 84780

Contact us:
(435) 627-9582
email us

[texski]

reading the comments by willie jessup it is clear he is asking for money from the state. getting ready for a law suit??? he uses words like reimbursement for their treatment by the authorities. i cannot see texas handing over any money , can the rest of you here?? so that means law suits, which, i think, would be good, it would be a window into their secret world .

[juliekan]

Originally Posted by texski

reading the comments by willie jessup it is clear he is asking for money from the state. getting ready for a law suit??? he uses words like reimbursement for their treatment by the authorities. i cannot see texas handing over any money , can the rest of you here?? so that means law suits, which, i think, would be good, it would be a window into their secret world .

Bingo, empty threat.

[walton]

This website must really chaff the arses of Warren, Wee Wille and the other losers in the leadership of FLDS. It debunks their entire religious viewpoint from a Mormon viewpoint.

But they believe it to be true.

[walton]

I just do not understand how they want to keep things the same ie 1840's instead of moving forward and being a progressive society.

IMO Greed, Power, Money and Sex

[juliekan]

http://www.childbrides.org/news.html

CEDAR CITY - A Utah state senator is preparing to present his controversial incest bill during the 2009 Utah legislative session, which begins Jan. 26.

Two Utah geneticists provided testimony to back Stowell's case. Nobel Prize winner Dr. Mario Capecchi, University of Utah distinguished professor of human genetics and biology and investigator at Howard Hughes Medical Center, provided statistics, saying there is a 25-50 percent chance of deformity with first relationships and 6-8 percent with second relationships. First relationships include father-daughter and brother-sister incest, and second include cousin and uncle-niece relationships, Stowell explained. John Opitz, University of Utah professor of pediatrics, human genetics, pathology, obstetrics and gynecology, wrote in his testimony that "the deleterious effects of incest in resulting offspring by way of mortality, defect and mental retardation range from 61 to 89 percent."

[walton]

http://www.kued.org/productions/utahnow/?action=people

I just found this site. Listen to Bill Allreds 350 words or less about Polygamy issues.

Actually there are a lot of good topics over there.

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_11368343

Allegations that members of a southern Utah polygamous sect are guilty of widespread welfare fraud were raised repeatedly this summer during a U.S. Senate judiciary committee hearing.

They surfaced frequently, too, in messages sent to Texas Gov. Rick Perry after an April raid on the Eldorado ranch occupied by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

"Please pull the plug on the freebies for the cult. Why are the taxpayers of your state paying for this illegal group?" wrote a Michigan couple on April 17.

But welfare data from Utah, Arizona and Texas do not support the claims.




Remember that Utah and Arizona also don't have much data supporting the FACT that there is child abuse and child marriages going on inside these two states.

Just because they don't have the data doesn't mean it isn't happening. Utah and Arizona have done little to get off their arses to do anything concerning these groups.


I do believe that this is called stirring the pot.

It can't be easy being a reporter in these two states. imo

[juliekan]

From the above article:

But Paul Murphy, spokesman for Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff, said that while there may not be "outright fraud" by the polygamous community, there is "a resentment that taxpayers are being used to support this lifestyle.

"If you are going to have three wives and 15 children, you need to figure out a way to support three wives and 15 children," he said.

AMEN

[texski]

the fraud comes in when they are able to give 1,000 a month to their prophet but claim they are unable to support their children by these extra "wives" who list themselves as single women in order to qualify for all the government welfare. they also work for corporations who must not give them any health benefits because the care of these sickly children is all on the taxpayers as well. the inbreeding that causes mental health problems is claimed on the social security as well as all the children the old men have with the young wives after they are on social security. i wonder if any of them pay any taxes at all, they are just using those of us who do pay our taxes as suckers to support them.

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1...275478,00.html

Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, held hearings on the BCS in 2003 as chairman of the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee, accusing the entity of bias against non-BCS teams. Following the U.'s Sugar Bowl win last week, Hatch repeated his criticisms.

"Regardless of what happens in the Florida-Oklahoma game, the outcome will not change the fact that there is only one undefeated team in Division I college football: the University of Utah," Hatch said. "For the second time in four years, the BCS-busting Utes have gone undefeated and yet uninvited to play for a national championship. That needs to change because the system is broken. The BCS is fatally flawed and, until it is fixed, will continue to produce a flawed college football champion."




Sometimes words just escape me.


But you should see the facial expressions and hand gestures.

[walton]

Originally Posted by Texas-SE

The FLDS continues with it's propaganda campaign with this story broadcast by a Houston,TX TV station.

http://www.khou.com/news/state/stori....16a9c451.html

Watch video link on website. IMO this is whitewash as issue of under age marriages is not resolved.

Oh come on now. He did say that he was raising his kids to be honest and good citizens.

Growing up in Arizona was a good thing despite that his father was involved in the raid of '53'. He himself was/is a respectable and productive part of society. No baggage from growing up in a cult that condones breaking the law and watching others do just that.


Yup. I vote a thin white wash.

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1...275420,00.html

exas child welfare authorities are seeking permanent conservatorship of a 14-year-old girl allegedly married to Fundamentalist LDS Church leader Warren Jeffs.

The girl's mother wants a jury to ultimately decide who gets custody of all of her children. Barbara Jessop's attorney, Valerie J. Malara, filed a demand notice in an Eldorado, Texas, court, seeking a jury trial to decide custody over her three children.

The demand was filed in advance of a permanency hearing scheduled Thursday in San Angelo, Texas, where child welfare authorities were to update a judge on the girl's status in foster care.


More info at the link. They mention BillM's website.

[texski]

football games are much more important to utah than possible crimes against children.??????
i think it is wonderful that we are getting a lot of news about the flds, someone, somewhere has gotten thru to the media that the public is concerned and wants our public officials to start being concerned as well.

[lotty]

Originally Posted by walton

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1...275420,00.html

exas child welfare authorities are seeking permanent conservatorship of a 14-year-old girl allegedly married to Fundamentalist LDS Church leader Warren Jeffs.

The girl's mother wants a jury to ultimately decide who gets custody of all of her children. Barbara Jessop's attorney, Valerie J. Malara, filed a demand notice in an Eldorado, Texas, court, seeking a jury trial to decide custody over her three children.

The demand was filed in advance of a permanency hearing scheduled Thursday in San Angelo, Texas, where child welfare authorities were to update a judge on the girl's status in foster care.


More info at the link. They mention BillM's website.

Thanks for the link!
I think they should Bring it on!!!! Jury trial all the way!

[walton]

http://www.people.com/people/archive...148264,00.html

Lawyer Rod Parker, who represents the group, says after a man first weds, subsequent marriages are performed only within the church and don't involve underage girls, therefore breaking no laws. For the FLDS, he says, "the issue is, who controls marriage—the state or God and God's representative, their prophet?"



This was printed in 2003

If a lawyer knows his client or anyone else is breaking the law... don't they have a legal obligation to report it? or is Polygamy legal in Utah? ( Don't have to answer that, I know it isn't legal.)

Just wondering.

[walton]

Originally Posted by texski

football games are much more important to utah than possible crimes against children.??????
i think it is wonderful that we are getting a lot of news about the flds, someone, somewhere has gotten thru to the media that the public is concerned and wants our public officials to start being concerned as well.

Hey there Texski,

Do you remember Hatch saying one thing about the Polygamy issue in the last year? two years?

I think during the Senate hearing I might have seen him bite his lip a time or two.

[walton]

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Chu...7994624/?itm=3

"My name is Flora Jessop. I’ve been called apostate, vigilante, and crazy *****, and maybe I am. But some people call me a hero, and I’d like to think they’re right too. If I am a hero, maybe it’s because every time I can play a part in saving a child or a woman from a life of servitude and degradation, I’m saving a little piece of me, too.

I was one of twenty-eight children born to my dad and his three wives. Indoctrinated to believe that the outside world was evil, and that I resided among the righteous, I was destined to marry a man chosen for me by the Prophet. I would then live in harmony with my sister-wives, bear many children, and obey and serve my future husband in this life and throughout eternity. But my innocence didn’t last long. While still a child, I understood that the church of the righteous was nothing but a church of lies.


more at the link



I really like and admire Flora. The link said that the books would be published Jan. 27th

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_11398137?source=rv

After investigating a small polygamous community in British Columbia for more than three years, Canadian authorities have charged two of its leaders with practicing polygamy.

Jim Oler, 44, and Winston Blackmore, 52, were arrested this morning and each face one count. They are expected to be released later today, with the conditions that they limit their travel and do not perform any spiritual marriages, said Sgt. Tim Shields, a media relations officer for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

Blackmore and Older are scheduled for an appearance in Creston Provincial Court on Jan. 21.

Oler, accused of having two wives, is charged with "practicing polygamy" between Nov. 1, 2004, and Oct. 8, 2008.

Blackmore, alleged to have 20 wives, is charged with "practicing polygamy" between May 1, 2005, and Dec. 8, 2006.


And further into the article: Willie Jessop, a spokesman for the FLDS Church, said the sect is "very disappointed" by the charges.

"This is clearly not about underage marriage," Jessop said. "We've been very specific that we do not condone underage marriage and haven't for several years. This demonstrates nothing more than a vindictive attitude toward our religion."

Holy Cow!! This took me by surprise. Big time.

I wasn't expecting anything out of Canada until after Warrens trials were over.

Funny how Willie is talking for/about this sect up in Canada. What the heck. lol

Man, I really really hope someone puts EVERYTHING in a book and tells it all. This is HUGE! and I am liking it. Somehow, I am feeling just a tad bit safer.

Got Texas to my South and Canada to my North.

[walton]

Originally Posted by grammybear

I was pretty upset the other night when I heard MS statements about the Utes. My thinking was that if the politicians could put as much effort into protecting the children of the FLDS maybe we would be getting somewhere. Don't get me wrong football is ok, but more important is our children and the prosecution of those who hurt our children.
I am glad the media is giving more attention to the issues of the FLDS. Now if we could get the politicians and justice people to start doing their job where these children are involved our society would be a lot better.

jmoo

I love football. And I like it even better when the spectators get involved. What irked me was that Hatch couldn't take the time out of his day to address the issues of Polygamy.

What irked me is that Mark Shurtleff said they didn't have the time or resources to "investigate" smaller issues like Polygamy.

What really pissed me off is that Shurtleff did the shoo shoo sound when so many people went into his office, gave him names, times, events and probably quoted to him which laws were being broken and he tells them he doesn't have proof. BS

He did the Walkabout with Willie but couldn't take a day to go to Dan Fischers place and talk to the kids. And to think that Shurtleff got reelected another term. If I lived in Utah, I would be asking for my money back. jmo

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1...275844,00.html

Both Blackmore and Oler were to be released from RCMP custody late Wednesday pending a future court appearance. They were ordered by a judge to surrender their passports, check in with RCMP authorities, not leave British Columbia and perform no "celestial" marriages," said RCMP Sgt. Tim Shields.

A spokesman for the FLDS Church did not immediately return a call seeking comment.

News of the charges stunned many.

"I'm shocked. I really am," said Mary Batchelor, the director of the Utah-based pro-polygamy group Principle Voices. "I'm amazed they are actually doing that."

Batchelor said she had been in contact with some of Blackmore's wives, whom she said were understandably upset.

I don't know why but this just cracked me up: A spokesman for the FLDS Church did not immediately return a call seeking comment.

I wonder how a person gets the number for the FLDS spokesman?
Yellow Pages?
FLDS?
FLDS spokesman. Please Dial #1
Latest FLDS spokesman. Please dial #2
About to be waiting in the wings spokesperson. Please dial #3

lol

Mary Batchelor shocked? Good.



And Winston has this to say:

"Since we are not hiding we are not hard to find," he wrote. "It is hard to think that Canada, the home of free lovers and legalized same-sex marriages, not to mention legal wife-swapping clubs, could waste their time on people who live like we do."

Waste of time? lol

Sorry Winston I just never did buy into that I am going to leave little girls alone song and dance. They took Winstons passport and he can't leave Canada.

Yup, I am feeling dang good about now. Texas Rangers and the Canadian Mounted Police.

[texski]

there are a lot of CANADIANS here in florida where we and they spend the winter. tomorrow i plan to go out and hug as many as i can find and tell them thank you for their government. if they dont know what i am talking about , maybe i can get more of them involved in watching the ones in their country. OH CANADA

[juliekan]

Sorry, will get back on topic, as I have scrolled up and seen lots is going on but I have to relate what my DH had to say tonight. We were discussing politics and he brought up (to put it nicely) Harry Reid. He said HR only cares about:
1. himself
2. his political party
3. then his country(maybe)

And my DH doesn't even follow this topic. He'd just angry at everything else Harry Reid is doing.

[juliekan]

from Walton's post above:

And Winston has this to say:

Quote:
"Since we are not hiding we are not hard to find," he wrote. "It is hard to think that Canada, the home of free lovers and legalized same-sex marriages, not to mention legal wife-swapping clubs, could waste their time on people who live like we do."

Waste of time? lol

And where is Merrill Jessop and Wendall Neilson? They let him go, and you will never see them again.

[juliekan]

OK, now that I have calmed down a bit I have a couple of questions. (did not expect to come in and check the computer and something has happened; yes Walton you warned me something was coming.)

why is Blackmore only charged with bigamy from May 2005 - December 2006 if he has 20 wives?

I thought they were trying to distance themselves from the FLDS down here....who called in the dogs....I mean Willie J?

Where is Rod Parker?

[juliekan]

to quote walton:

Got Texas to my South and Canada to my North

goodnight all!

[walton]

Originally Posted by Texas-SE

Amazing how things work out, ole Warren and his cronies must be feeling pretty low about now. Yet I wonder what's next, will the FLDS break up, will it go underground and lash out in a violent manner like the LaBarons. I still wonder if the FLDS had anything to do with burning of Gov house in Austin, TX.

Should make interesting read when Flora J's book comes out, will new secrets come out, who will be embarassed. Will names be named.

Isn't this just great news Texas-SE?

I don't know how they would be able to go underground with this much press. Kinda hard to build a compound anyplace and not be noticed.

Concerning the Gov. mansion I don't know that the FLDS really had anything to do with it. I think that if anything it could be one of those groups that would use the FLDS as an excuse to do something. Friends in low places type thing.

I am looking forward to Floras book.

[walton]

Originally Posted by juliekan

Sorry, will get back on topic, as I have scrolled up and seen lots is going on but I have to relate what my DH had to say tonight. We were discussing politics and he brought up (to put it nicely) Harry Reid. He said HR only cares about:
1. himself
2. his political party
3. then his country(maybe)

And my DH doesn't even follow this topic. He'd just angry at everything else Harry Reid is doing.

You and your husband talk Politics? I've heard of that happening with other people. I've just never been able to experience this. lol

Harry Reid is the one that brought Stephen Singular to the Senate hearing. I use to give "uncle Harry" a bad time so I've kinda let up on him a bit since he pushed the whole "investigation thing.

I won't hold back on Hatch though. He should know better. imo

[walton]

I have an idea where Wendell and Merill are at.

Rod Parker is pacing in a room with a bright light and a guy pounding a table with his fist saying TALK!!

The reason for the charges during that time frame is because they have "evidence" to back up that time frame. jmo

As far as Willie....I bet it is two more years before I find out for sure about his confirmed role in all this.

This is a good day.

[lotty]

There is a custody hearing today, about B. Jessop's daughter (14yo).
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/conten...ext/?cid=88591

On the other note...Isn't Jim Oler the head of the FLDS Bountiful group? Someone set me straight. Winston was exe'd.

Mr. Willie running his mouth again...when is he going to realize, it's not just about underage marriage? JMO

[lotty]

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/tod...721/story.html

Interesting article. Two very different approaches to the same problem, although Texas, I think was pushed in a very different direction. This will be interesting to watch.

Hi grammy
I wonder how the custody hearing will go today. I wish they would push for a jury to decide the custody issue. I can't imagine a jury giving a child to a parent who takes the 5th so often. JMO

[juliekan]

http://gosanangelo.com/news/2009/jan...trial-in-sect/

BREAKING NEWS: Attorneys agree to trial in sect custody case


The jury trial will take place Sept. 28 in Tom Green County, as the attorneys in a separate order agreed to waive the constitutional requirement that such a trial be held in Schleicher County, whose courthouse has no air conditioning

[juliekan]

and this....

I guess they must have found a "family member" for her to live with, otherwise I cannot imagine them letting her live with a foster family till Sept.(sigh)

According to an order signed this afternoon by 51st District Judge Barbara Walther, the state will investigate another possible placement for the girl, who sect documents record as being married to Jeffs when she was 12 years old.

[juliekan]

[quote=lotty;12631305]http://www.vancouversun.com/news/tod...721/story.html

Interesting article. Two very different approaches to the same problem, although Texas, I think was pushed in a very different direction. This will be interesting to watch.
<snipped>

lotty, long time no see!

terrific article, written in a very open manner, almost naively....I think they may have an uphill battle, from some of what they said.

[juliekan]

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_11408229

Texas says mom cooperating to protect FLDS teen

In its motion, the department said Barbara Jessop failed a home study because she did not provide a "plan for how she might protect'' her daughter from being placed in another marriage.

But in court Thursday, state officials said she is now complying with their requests.

Yikes, sounds like they may send her home?

[juliekan]

Bountiful timeline
Vancouver SunJanuary 7, 2009

http://www.vancouversun.com/Life/Bou...403/story.html