~Honey~ I love you

[Politigal]

?????

Ok folks...riddle me this

*If* Gricar walked away from his life as he knew it...it would have to have been methodically & meticulously planned over a period of time. He would have planned for back-up transportation, $$$, clothing, a new identity, a travel route & destination, a place to live or stay, and it probably would have involved an accomplice.

He would be leaving behind the daughter, who by all accounts he dearly loved & was extremely close to.

He would be leaving behind his retirement that he worked over 20 yrs to amass.

He would be leaving behind his reputation & career, his other family, his friends, his abode, his clothing, his Mini Cooper (that was titled in Patty's name,) his antique collectibles, his family photographs & memorabilia, his degrees, and everything he owned.

And he would leave all this behind ....without one goodbye....without one note....without one clue....without any apparent remorse....

Yet...he worried so much & felt so guilty about not being able to let Patty Fornicola's *DOG* out to pee, that he decided to phone?????????????????????


No folks...it DOES NOT compute.


It's time to take off the rose colored glasses (or put down the scotch) & use some common sense.

IMO

[J. J. in Phila]

First, the preparation. Yes, there is some circumstantial evidence. There are reports that RFG did some things and said some things prior to disappearing that are consistent with a voluntary walkaway. I disagree that he needed an accomplice, or helper, though that remains a possibility.

RFG expressed an interest in walkaway cases. He said several things that indicated he would not be present in the Fall of 2005. He expressed an interest in eliminating the contents of his laptop so that no one could see the data. He left no ties, and even the money he left behind was accessible by his daughter. He certainly seems to have so have some money unaccounted for.

RFG had announced his retirement, so there would be no "scramble" to fill the post. His own statement, about his retirement, indicated that he wasn't going to practice law or run for office, so "career" is not an issue. As for reputation, he didn't need one and, if he walked away, he brilliantly pulled it off, passing into legend. Would anyone be talking about him today but for his disappearance? No. He's achieved more fame as a missing prosecutor than being a retired one. (And that is only one possible reason.)

The Mini wasn't his, and the "antiques" have been overplayed (according to TG). He did like traveling, however.

As for his daughter, RFG might have intended to inform her, and for all I know, may have. Informing her then would put her in the position of lying to LE and failing the polygraph. There is another factor. Twelve hours after his last contact, he was reported missing, and 24 hours late, LG was sitting on the West Coast, but on her way to Bellefonte. He'd have no way of knowing if she would be in the company of LE or family when he called.

As for the call, why didn't RFG call from the house and very close to an area where there was no cell coverage? Answer, because he knew that Route 192 would be where LE would start to search. He'd know that there would be a record of the call.

While searching there, he is putting more distance between him and where LE is looking for him, and the Mini. Seriously, if someone wanted to make it look like suicide, why Route 192? Why not make the call from Lewisburg? A tiny little detail that delays the finding of the Mini.

And why Lewisburg. It's out of the A/J/SC media market, so virtually no one will walk to him and say, "Didn't I see you on TV?"

Yes P'gal, it is time take off the rose colored glasses and put down the drink. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence that RFG was intending to walk away. More than for murder or suicide. It does "compute," though it is not conclusive. The evidence I'm looking for is, if this circumstantial evidence is correct, how did RFG get out of Lewisburg?

[day2day]

Originally Posted by Politigal

?????

Ok folks...riddle me this

*If* Gricar walked away from his life as he knew it...it would have to have been methodically & meticulously planned over a period of time. He would have planned for back-up transportation, $$$, clothing, a new identity, a travel route & destination, a place to live or stay, and it probably would have involved an accomplice.

He would be leaving behind the daughter, who by all accounts he dearly loved & was extremely close to.

He would be leaving behind his retirement that he worked over 20 yrs to amass.

He would be leaving behind his reputation & career, his other family, his friends, his abode, his clothing, his Mini Cooper (that was titled in Patty's name,) his antique collectibles, his family photographs & memorabilia, his degrees, and everything he owned.

And he would leave all this behind ....without one goodbye....without one note....without one clue....without any apparent remorse....

Yet...he worried so much & felt so guilty about not being able to let Patty Fornicola's *DOG* out to pee, that he decided to phone?????????????????????


No folks...it DOES NOT compute.


It's time to take off the rose colored glasses (or put down the scotch) & use some common sense.

IMO

If only Honey coulda "talked" I have a feeling this case would have already been solved.

GREAT post Pgal!!

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally Posted by day2day

If only Honey coulda "talked" I have a feeling this case would have already been solved.

GREAT post Pgal!!

Only a great post if you ignore the evidence. Sorry, the circumstantial evidence points toward walk away, rather strongly.

Honey's walk is itself a clue. If the call was faked, why not make it from Lewisburg, and, if PEF faked it, why not simply say that they discussed it in the morning? Riddle me that?

[Politigal]

Originally Posted by day2day

If only Honey coulda "talked" I have a feeling this case would have already been solved.

GREAT post Pgal!!

Thx Day....

It just seems so totally absurd to me that some would think that Gricar could just up & leave and not tell his beloved daughter goodbye, but care enough to worry about that damn dog.

That's ridiculous, and IMO it only leaves the *foul play* scenario.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally Posted by Politigal

Thx Day....

It just seems so totally absurd to me that some would think that Gricar could just up & leave and not tell his beloved daughter goodbye, but care enough to worry about that damn dog.

That's ridiculous, and IMO it only leaves the *foul play* scenario.

I'm glad you approve of lying to the police.

P'gal do you have any children? Serious question. Just yes or no, not their ages/sexes or anything.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally Posted by Politigal

Thx Day....

It just seems so totally absurd to me that some would think that Gricar could just up & leave and not tell his beloved daughter goodbye, but care enough to worry about that damn dog.

That's ridiculous, and IMO it only leaves the *foul play* scenario.

Some folks like dogs more than people pgal. Ray himself didn't speak much to live folks. He can always catch up with his daughter when he felt it safe to do. He cared about that dog cause he only felt remorse leaving it behind maybe. Really some folks care for animals more than people. Heck he divorced two woman, one of them didn't even know anything was wrong in the marriage. Ray would be hard to figure out, although being a legend seems not to be in his character. Perhaps not wanting to answer to anybody might fit considering he left before for a cleveland Indian game? You must remember he was the chief law enforcement head so not answering to anybody matches that. lol

[Politigal]

Originally Posted by Cloudbuster

Some folks like dogs more than people pgal. Ray himself didn't speak much to live folks. He can always catch up with his daughter when he felt it safe to do. He cared about that dog cause he only felt remorse leaving it behind maybe. Really some folks care for animals more than people. Heck he divorced two woman, one of them didn't even know anything was wrong in the marriage. Ray would be hard to figure out, although being a legend seems not to be in his character. Perhaps not wanting to answer to anybody might fit considering he left before for a cleveland Indian game? You must remember he was the chief law enforcement head so not answering to anybody matches that. lol

IIRC, the dog belonged to Patty. And with all the articles about Gricar's history...his daughter Lara was *the* major factor in his life....no animals were mentioned (other than Honey.)

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally Posted by Politigal

IIRC, the dog belonged to Patty. And with all the articles about Gricar's history...his daughter Lara was *the* major factor in his life....no animals were mentioned.

He hadn't been in the household since 1990, and she was an adult living 2500 miles away.

Now, RFG, if he left, would be aware that LE would talk to her. Do you really think that he'd want to put her in a position where she'd have to lie to the police. Telling her would mean that he would he would expect her to lie to LE, or tell the truth, thus ruining his plan to walk away. Then there is the polygraph. He'd know it was possible that she'd be asked to take a polygraph. If she don't know, she can answer truthfully.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally Posted by Politigal

IIRC, the dog belonged to Patty. And with all the articles about Gricar's history...his daughter Lara was *the* major factor in his life....no animals were mentioned (other than Honey.)

Im speaking of Honey the dog as a animal in generality. Lara is a major factor in his life I agree 100%. What makes you think she still isn't? Do you see her on this board? NO

[Cloudbuster]

Originally Posted by Politigal

?????

Ok folks...riddle me this

*If* Gricar walked away from his life as he knew it...it would have to have been methodically & meticulously planned over a period of time. He would have planned for back-up transportation, $$$, clothing, a new identity, a travel route & destination, a place to live or stay, and it probably would have involved an accomplice.

I agree

He would be leaving behind the daughter, who by all accounts he dearly loved & was extremely close to.
He wasn't close to her by distance? She is always just a call away.
He would be leaving behind his retirement that he worked over 20 yrs to amass. Not necessarily just his SSI part.

He would be leaving behind his reputation & career, his other family, his friends, his abode, his clothing, his Mini Cooper (that was titled in Patty's name,) his antique collectibles, his family photographs & memorabilia, his degrees, and everything he owned.
All replaceable if the need arises.
And he would leave all this behind ....without one goodbye....without one note....without one clue....without any apparent remorse....
Why leave if you want to do it discreetly? Remorse? He probably couldn't wait. lol
Yet...he worried so much & felt so guilty about not being able to let Patty Fornicola's *DOG* out to pee, that he decided to phone?????????????????????

Oh while it is Patty's dog let her deal with it.
No folks...it DOES NOT compute.

Just computes to RG right?
It's time to take off the rose colored glasses (or put down the scotch) & use some common sense.
Glasses can be for day and night. No scotch intended lol. Common sense can not be used because everything about this case is NOT common. No sense intended. lol

IMO

This is a matter of opinion in the eyes of the beholder. lol

Originally Posted by Politigal

?????

Ok folks...riddle me this

*If* Gricar walked away from his life as he knew it...it would have to have been methodically & meticulously planned over a period of time. He would have planned for back-up transportation, $$$, clothing, a new identity, a travel route & destination, a place to live or stay, and it probably would have involved an accomplice.

He would be leaving behind the daughter, who by all accounts he dearly loved & was extremely close to.

He would be leaving behind his retirement that he worked over 20 yrs to amass.

He would be leaving behind his reputation & career, his other family, his friends, his abode, his clothing, his Mini Cooper (that was titled in Patty's name,) his antique collectibles, his family photographs & memorabilia, his degrees, and everything he owned.

And he would leave all this behind ....without one goodbye....without one note....without one clue....without any apparent remorse....

Yet...he worried so much & felt so guilty about not being able to let Patty Fornicola's *DOG* out to pee, that he decided to phone?????????????????????


No folks...it DOES NOT compute.


It's time to take off the rose colored glasses (or put down the scotch) & use some common sense.

IMO

I'm so glad you posted this, Pgal. I've been working myself on starting a thread with reasons I have trouble making sense of the "planned walkaway" theory.

The call regarding Honey as you describe it above is one of those reasons. It makes no sense that someone would be on the brink of putting his loved ones through pure torture and agony but take the risk of making a traceable call with the purpose of saying a) I won't be in to work this afternoon and b) I can't let the dog out at noon. If you don't care that you're going to break your beloved daughter's heart, you certainly aren't going to care whether the dog goes out at noon. And the "he can always call his daughter later after the heat is off" explanation is pure bunk. If he's thinking that way, why try to disappear at all? It's not much of a disappearing act if you're thinking you're going to contact loved ones later, and not very realistic if you're thinking "I'll tell Lara but ask her not to tell TG, CG, etc."

In my mind there are a few other questions, one regarding the call. Saying "I'm on 192" isn't very bright planning if you're a supposedly brilliant man who's spent years planning this. Yes, JJ, it makes much more sense to place the call from home, to say, "I'm leaving here in about an hour and probably won't be home at lunch to walk Honey. Can you do it?"

Then, by the time PF reports RG as missing, LE has NO idea where to start looking. That's going to keep them a lot busier than giving them a heads up. And it's going to be a lot less risky, especially if Bennett's supposed noon Saturday sighting is taken as gospel. That would mean LE missed stumbling into RG only by hours. What's he going to do then, say "I'm on my way home now," and blow years worth of planning?

The whole timing of the "planning" issue also makes very little sense. If as has been argued this was a plan years in the making (to gather funds), when did the planning begin? When he was with EG? When he was planning to divorce her? Okay, then why get involved with PF to the point of moving in with her and creating this whole soul mates forever stuff? That just makes walking away more complicated, and the funds he purportedly put into building a future with PF would have made more sense going into his walkaway plan, especially given the fact that he eventually chose to walk before getting his retirement monies. No one would have blinked an eye had he only dated PF or had he dated a number of women casually following his divorce from EG--much better planning if you're planning a walkaway.

If he began the plan after he got involved with PF, are we to believe he's really that far into the "cad zone," as S1 describes it, asking her to retire to travel with him, then hitting the bricks without her in his long term plan to take off and let everyone wonder what the heck happened to him?

[J. J. in Phila]

UTR, for heaven's sake, if you are planning to vanish, you don't tell people. You also don't put loved ones in the position of lying to the police. That is the first bit of illogic in your premise.

Now, let's take a look at the call, and assume it was faked. What does it do. Well, it established beyond doubt that the phone was in Brush Valley at 11:12 AM. We know where the phone ended up. It also gives LE a start point for the search. That start point is not near the car or the river

Assume that someone wanted to "make it look like suicide." Okay, why would you need to delay the finding of the car? Any time after the police are called, the car may be found. If the car is moved after the police are called, RFG probably didn't kill himself and then move the car.

So what does the call do, effectively. It gives LE a start point to search, about 30 miles away from where the car is really located. It delays the finding of the car. That doesn't help the scenario a bit, since PEF received the call and later was the one to report him missing. It delays the finding of the car only after the police are called.

It would help the scenario if the call was made after the phone passed through the dead zone or was in Lewisburg itself. It would make the discovery of the car sooner, in all probability.

Now, assume the call was not faked. Who benefits from the call from Brush Valley? RFG, if this is a walkaway. He knows that even after someone reports him missing, they are going to be looking 30 miles from where the car is really parked. Maybe LE will find the Mini, parked in a public place, ten minutes after he's reported missing, but if they don't find it immediately, LE will start searching at the point of last contact, 30 miles away.

RFG cannot control a few things in this scenario:

1. When he will be reported missing.

2. When LE will start the search.

3. When the Mini will be found.

He can attempt to buy some time by making a routine call from 30 miles away where he plans to dump the car. If that's what he did, it worked brilliantly.

PEF only controls one thing, when to report him missing. She could have easily delayed that until the early morning of 4/16. She can't control points #2 or #3. Neither can DZ control point #3, because he's not patrolling Lewisburg.

You couple this with PEF making the report 12 hours after last contact and the BPD issuing the APB quickly, and we can see the illogic of P'gal's and your premise.

[Politigal]

It's still my opinion that the Mini Cooper was already in Lewisburg when the call was placed...and who ever placed the call went to Lewisburg right after, and placed the cell phone in the car, via the passenger side door, hence the small amount of cigarette ash.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally Posted by Politigal

It's still my opinion that the Mini Cooper was already in Lewisburg when the call was placed...and who ever placed the call went to Lewisburg right after, and placed the cell phone in the car, via the passenger side door, hence the small amount of cigarette ash.

That really is irrelevant to the spot where the call was placed and your opinion is outweighed by three witnesses that we know of.

[SuperKyle]

Ok, we really need to look at "REALITY" here and mix some common sense in with it. That is that sometimes completely rational people do completely irrational things. This kind of thing happens all of the time. No, really, ALL OF THE TIME.. Every day someone in America walks away from family and friends for what appears to be no reason whatsoever.

Just this past year in Ohio we had a man head to Texas on his anniversary. Just walked right up and away.

Here is one for you, no indication at all.
Jon R. Van ****
http://www.reintjes.us/missing_jon.htm

I've been in contact with his wife?? and it is now believed he is found and had just walked away.

People do this all the time, nothing new at all. The sad thing is the people left behind who have no idea why.

Sometimes it doesn't matter what you are walking away from.

Matthew Wilson....... ring a bell?

[day2day]

Originally Posted by Politigal

It's still my opinion that the Mini Cooper was already in Lewisburg when the call was placed...and who ever placed the call went to Lewisburg right after, and placed the cell phone in the car, via the passenger side door, hence the small amount of cigarette ash.

I agree pgal. I don't believe that Mr. Gricar every placed that call. Juss part of the plan....