My perspective on Ray's Disappearance

[Cinderella]

This is the way that I view what might or very well could have happened to Ray.

First of all, none of us humans are perfect.

Ray was a very handsome man who happened to be DA in Centre County.
Ray loved women, but he didn't like to just stay with one.

He was probably enticed by a lot of women and probably could have had his choice in women, but staying with one woman all of his life probably didn't satisfy Ray. (I would like to add my own comment that although I didn't know the relationship that Ray had with Barbara, I know that she must have deeply cared about him. She probably would have done most anything to please him, but he was not a one woman man.)

If you have ever noticed, men appear to have a harder time living alone than woman. So a man is usually living with a woman.

After two failed marriages, he probably knew that married life was not for him for life.

I wonder if PF started noticing changes in RG before 2005. People around the area knew that Ray liked women. I am sure that PF knew, but she might have thought in her heart that this time it would last. I am wondering that she noticed that he might be seeing someone else so she moved in her job, to be closer to Ray and find out maybe who he was seeing. Or what was happening in his life that was making him seem to change. ( I don't think that when there is a lot of time to work together it makes a difference, but with retirement getting close, I am sure that Ray was getting a little nervous about retiring and having PF retire with him. What would happen if she retired and something happened to the relationship?) I feel that Ray was depressed because he felt stuck and didn't want to hurt PF or others and the closer the retirement got, the more nervous he became.
In this time, I don't think that Ray was faithful to PF. I don't think that he was faithful to any of his wifes. Some men are like that. After all he wasn't married to her, but he did live with her. I don't think that Ray wanted to marry PF and that is why he bought the house and a car for her. If someone is in love, a wedding ring or engagement ring is put on someone's finger. If they both were planning on retiring at the end of 2006, then Christmas of 2005 would have been an ideal time to make plans for an engagement or wedding. I wonder if Ray and PF were having some spats over the changes.

I think that PF knew that Ray was seeing someone. I don't think that Ray stayed Thursday night with PF. I think that that is where the story gets all messed up by trying to protect images. I do believe that Ray called PF and told her where he was headed, just to let her know. Or maybe stated where he was headed thinking that she would not suspect anything. From what I have heard, when a man fools around, it means nothing. From what I understand, most men do fool around and a lot of women also do. I think that Ray was seeing a woman. I think that he planned on meeting her in Lewisburg because it was out of the way of Bellefonte and people might not readily notice who he was. Also with her. I think that they met and maybe Ray had a motel or hotel room already in his name. Maybe he didn't spend several days with PF. The statement that we will wait as long as it takes could fit in this plan because he might have said that he wanted to think things over. I believe that the woman may have wanted to be with him or set him up for someone. At any rate, the construction worker leaned into the car. I think that it was a boyfriend, husband or just someone wanting to get Ray. I kind of think that it was a set up due to the almost perfect setting. The woman might have known that something was going to happen or maybe not. I think that Ray was moving his car in the parking lot because she might have been late or he didn't think that she knew what vehicle he would have been in. Or the situation was manipulated by friends of Ray to make it look like Ray was in Lewisburg, because they didn't want the real truth to be known of what did happen to Ray. People can say they saw anything. If you are a friend of someone you can get people to say things that are not true. It could have been to get everyone's eyes on Lewisburg and not where it happened. After all the news media was there.

I think that the man that met up with Ray while he was with the woman drove Ray in the car and took him someplace else. Possible a camp or some quiet place. Who knows this person could have been blackmailing Ray for a while.

We have a person who supposedly made statements about Ray and was angry at Ray. He made statements that came true. I can't believe that all the statements that I heard second hand were exactly things that came true. So the person kills himself. How do you convict a dead man, you can't. What good would it be to pursue the case, if you thought that this man did it. Even if you thought the body was in cement. How do you get a person out from under cement. What is all of this news going to do to the public, family's? Maybe if knowing what happened and nothing could be done, it might be better to let well enough alone.

To me the police acted like they didn't want to hear anything about Ray unless you had a body. I am not so convinced that they didn't find his body, or maybe not.

I believe the truth was know about Ray at least at the second town meeting. Remember they didn't give Ray too long to show up before the grief session. I think that by the second town meeting that family knew what happened to Ray. Actually if you look at the pictures of the meetings closely, in the first picture, you can see Lara wearing a necklace, then in the second meeting, she had on a different necklace. If my mother hadn't died recently, I wouldn't think anything of it. I don't think that anyone took notice, but Lara was wearing a necklace that holds cremation remains. When people are cremated, many people purchase those necklaces to keep someone close to their heart. I know that Lara could say they were her dogs, or relatives, but I believe that they were Ray's ashes. I believe that the family and friend of Ray didn't want the citizens to know what really happened to Ray because of the great job he did in office and also to protect PF.

I have thought long and hard. This is my conclusion. Knowing the truth if he is deceased would be good. I don't know if doing anything else would be helpful.

I probably left out a lot of things that I wanted to say. I think that this sums up what I think. These are my own opinions and thoughts and no one elses. I think that if you look at the case through this perspective, that it will all fall into place.

I know that I probably ruffled some feathers, but this makes the most sense to me.

I must say that Ray was a damn great DA, who I miss very much and didn't even know him. I wish that I would have attended some of his trials. He fought for the Citizens of Centre County.

Please excuse any typos.

Just my opinion, My opinion only.

[J. J. in Phila]

I think this a subject that not really been explored and should be.

I will say this in opposition. It would be difficult for RFG to hide a relationship from PEF, but not impossible. A brief fling, a singular encounter, irregular encounters would be easier to hide.

Some of the arguments in favor of it is that no one seems to be killing off law enforcement officials in Central Pennsylvania.

[Chump#7]

She's saying that the murderer, in this scenario BJL, was already dead shortly after Ray disappeared. Therefore, he was unable to be punished for his crime. And by letting the details out to the public as to how this went down would only serve to tarnish Ray's image. So the decision was made to let that one go, provide alibi's consistent with the "timeline", and move on.

That about right Cindy?

The BJL angle was another one pushed aside quickly. Rehash anyone? I'm game. If nothing else it was a fascinating read - would have made a great movie.

[Cinderella]

BJL was out for a kill. He made statements that he was going to kill his boss. He was then fired and worked for someone else. I can't prove that BJL killed RG but I think that the family know the truth. All it would bring out would be a can of worms and you can't convict a dead man. I still wonder about the supposed note. Did he leave one and someone get rid of it? Only the people first on the scene would know. I think that the police know this from the beginning. I don't think that they expected the kind of persistence of citizens. If I had to make a bet, I bet that RG was creamated at Wetzler's Funeral Home in Bellefonte. Then Lara got the necklace with some of his ashes in it. I think that if BJL would not have committed suicide then he would be in jail with probably someone very close to him. Even if BJL's SO just met with RG, it could have happened. You still can't convict a dead person

Just my Thoughts.

[Cinderella]

Lewisburg,

I wonder if RG ever went there that day. It is far better to set up a place away from the real crime scene so that detectives can search and not have anyone focusing on them. I think that it was set up that way to keep people from knowing the real truth. Was BJL getting heat from LE so much that he knew that he was caught and it was only a matter of time? I think that is probably it. If the truth be known BJL probably did say those things to people but mouths are shut.

When I saw the enlarged picture of Lara wearing the necklace at the 2nd press conference and the saddened looks I knew that he was dead and they found him and she was wearing the ashes.

Those are only my opinion, but the necklace gave it away. I am sure most people did not know the significance of what she had around her neck.

[Cloudbuster]

You know Im trying to keep a open mind Cind so I think anythings possible. A man kills himself within the same weekend, if he did that is. Hmmm has ties to RG thru court. A woman visited by the now deceased at about 2 am if I recall right. A woman that had the deceased thru the court, accusing of a possible murder attempt on her. No one would show up at her house that hour and for what? A friendly kiss? I think not. If RG was seen last on saturdayish then is it possible BJL was going to now confront the other party on what he may have seen. You figure Ray was seen saturday possibly. Then saturday night leading to 2 am considered sunday, then I think it was a confrontation at the wife's house. Seemed BJL might have felt very hurt by the time of a possible confrontation with her. Question is why was he so upset to show up at her house? What had him so upset that it couldn't be a phone call to her at a reasonable time? He must have felt something SO horrible to even show up there at all given he knew he would most likely be arrested. It's one of those dot connectors.

[Cloudbuster]

It just dawned on me what if BJL was kicked out of his home that night after a possible argument with dad? Seems like something going on that night between the trio.

[puzzled]

BJL had recently discovered that his father was sleeping with BJL's wife TL. He was very upset. Also JL wanted BJL to lie about items that were taken out of the house before the fire. JL wanted BJL to sign a paper stating that they were lost in the fire. BJL would not sign it. BJL told his father that he was gonna go to Ray and tell Ray everything. He told his father that Ray was gonna put him in jail again. To make matters worse some guy named VM who is related to TL some how thought that Ray had slept with his girlfriend. The guy who I originally was told had heard BJL saying those things was a guy named Potsy who worked as a driver for RW Bird milk company. He later told the police supposedly that he had only seen BJL in passing that night and that he had not heard him saying anything about Ray. However the person that I know was insistent that Potsy had told his brother repeatedly that BJL had said all these things about Ray that night. It is hard to say who is telling the truth and who is maybe afraid to tell the truth. Keep in mind that BJL's family does not believe he killed himself. He was turning over a new leaf. He was getting a divorce and trying to move on. It could be that BJL made an appt to meet with Ray and that TL and JL and or VM intercepted Ray and kidnapped him. I believe wholeheartedly that Ray was killed that day. I believe that these supposed sightings of Ray after April 15th are false.

[J. J. in Phila]

I think there are a couple of problems with the BJL theory.

1. There really is no motive. The one recent brush with the law and RFG was favorable to BJL, to the point that RFG defended his "weak" response in the press. (It wasn't weak and reasonable.)

2. BJL was accounted for at the time.

3. How the heck could BJL know where RFG would be.

4. From everything I've heard about BJL, I would not describe him as a "rocket scientist." If this was a murder, it was a brilliant murderer. "Brilliant" was not a word I'd use to describe BJL.

LW, has constantly raised the suicide comments in the press. We know where that came from, TG and GC. It's not unusual they'd jump to that conclusion, considering the circumstances.

[puzzled]

I think you are missing the point JJ. First of all I do not think BJL killed Ray. I think BJL's father JL may have possibly killed Ray. Also keep in mind that JL is the one that gave BJL an alibi after BJL had died. The police asked JL about BJL's where abouts. The motive for JL would be that he knew that if his son told Ray what he had been up to with the arsons and stuff that Ray would send him back to jail. So you have BJL telling his father I am gonna tell Ray what you have done. That right there would be a huge motive for JL to get rid of Ray. Did you ever wonder if maybe Ray did meet with BJL and BJL told him about all the crimes his father had committed? What if Ray met with BJL on thursday and then told his Dad that he had spilled the beans to Ray? What if TL then set Ray up so that JL and VM could intervene and kill him? BJL was really angry at his father. JL did not want to go back to prison. TL was accusing BJL of shooting her when in fact he did not shoot her. So she is a bonafide liar. God only knows what she may have told Ray in order to set him up. You refuse to seriously delve into this possibility for some reason. But keep one thing in mind JJ if you had the answers to this case you would not be here three and half years later. So therefore if they did kill Ray and BJL knew or suspected it then maybe that is why they then killed BJL ...dead men can not speak.

[puzzled]

I have always thought it was a little more than coincidence that Ray goes missing and then BJl is dead just hours later. In addition how in the hell could the police say in that article on Sunday morning that BJL had committed suicide and that their is no connection to Ray's disappearance. I could they possibly have proven that beyond a shadow of a doubt? And why did they never check JL's where abouts? Could be because they did not know what had gone on behind the scenes? Could be because they are lazy, stupid, incompetent, unmotivated, gullible. If you ask me the likely killers of Ray are JL and VM. The likely killer of BJL is TL. Why do you refuse to look very carefully at this possibility JJ? Do you already know exactly what did happen to Ray and BJL? Do you not realize that there could be massive corruption with the law "enforcement" in these areas? JL said oh BJL was with me. Okay but the questions should have been well where were you?

[Chump#7]

puzzled,

Who is "VM"? I can't remember if I ever knew at all.

And are the threads still available that contained posts from BJL's aunt, the alphabet soup scenarios, etc.? TIA.

Originally Posted by Chump#7

puzzled,

Who is "VM"? I can't remember if I ever knew at all.

And are the threads still available that contained posts from BJL's aunt, the alphabet soup scenarios, etc.? TIA.

Ah...'kpenley89' and 'tiredoftheguff'...where are they now...with their highly speculative conjecture and boorish, personal accusations/innuendoes. Living on through Cinderella, I suspect.

The initial post in this thread is basically a repeat from nearly 2-1/2 years ago...but with cremation ash, necklace lockets added for interest. And nearly a year before that I was informed (by someone who should know) that BJL apparently did make the boast...though after RG's disappearance was made public...and that the PSP did in fact investigate BJL and found no connection. But JCL...now there is a character, and a question LE has not answered.

[Cloudbuster]

Is it possible JL and VM intercepted RG while on route 192? If I remember correctly VM lives on 192? Then could JL drive the mini to Lewisburg? He moves it 7ral times to position it how he wanted it to look? Then JL needs picked up. Could VM look like the construction worker that leaned in the car? He drives JL back to his house and they dispose? JL then goes home and tells BJL what he did and BJL gets angry and later that night 2 am confronts TL that night about her brother or half brother?

Just a theory.

[Cloudbuster]

What if RG was going to meet with BJL? Just to get even with his dad he tells JL what he is about to do? That also explains why BL didn't sign those insurance papers? JL now knows about the meeting. He follows RG and intercepts him close to VM's house. Then JL preceeds to take the mini to Lewisburg positions it 7ral times then maybe BJL now see's its not RG as he leans in the window. They get into a argument BJL leaves and VM or TL picks JL up. Later that night 2 am BL goes to TL's house to tell her he is not signing the insurance papers.

Just another theory.

[Cloudbuster]

I have one more possible theories. What if TL set up a meeting at her brothers VM? She wants to discuss the case she had against BJL. Then it also makes sense why RG told PF he was on 192. He didn't tell her it was a pleasure drive or work related drive. Okay he meets TL at VM"s house but its a set up and JL is there. I gotta say what a coindence that her brother or half brother lives on that road. One of Ray's friends had stated that RG didn't take that road to Lewisburg but that he uses 45 instead. Its even shorter. To me RG knew where he was going and why. It also explains why he told PF he was taking half the day off. See if he only had to drive to VM's he had plenty of time to get the other half of day in at work.

[sherrijean981]

Originally Posted by Cloudbuster

Is it possible JL and VM intercepted RG while on route 192? If I remember correctly VM lives on 192? Then could JL drive the mini to Lewisburg? He moves it 7ral times to position it how he wanted it to look? Then JL needs picked up. Could VM look like the construction worker that leaned in the car? He drives JL back to his house and they dispose? JL then goes home and tells BJL what he did and BJL gets angry and later that night 2 am confronts TL that night about her brother or half brother?

Just a theory.

No, VM lives off Rt 144, on Green's Valley Rd.

I wonder why BJL and JL didn't just have a shoot out with each other and leave RG out of it? RG was an innocent bystander to the evil and criminal ways of the Leathers family. And if TL is the type of person to sleep with father of husband can any of you seriously think RG would have a relationship with her? I don't think so!

[sherrijean981]

Originally Posted by Cloudbuster

I have one more possible theories. What if TL set up a meeting at her brothers VM? She wants to discuss the case she had against BJL. Then it also makes sense why RG told PF he was on 192. He didn't tell her it was a pleasure drive or work related drive. Okay he meets TL at VM"s house but its a set up and JL is there. I gotta say what a coindence that her brother or half brother lives on that road. One of Ray's friends had stated that RG didn't take that road to Lewisburg but that he uses 45 instead. Its even shorter. To me RG knew where he was going and why. It also explains why he told PF he was taking half the day off. See if he only had to drive to VM's he had plenty of time to get the other half of day in at work.

It sounds more like your case should be against VM and TL in the killing of BJL.

I don't remember the names anymore of the woman who heard BJL say about his getting rid of RG. She worked in the bar BJL was at, and I was told my the woman who owned the used car lot on Rt 144 just outside of Bellefonte. She lives in front of or beside that woman.

Shortly after I had been given all that info I had passed it on to TG with her address, names, etc. I don't know what he did with the info or if it was passed on to LE.

I believe that was all removed from the forum a long time ago.

[sherrijean981]

Originally Posted by Cinderella

BJL was out for a kill. He made statements that he was going to kill his boss. He was then fired and worked for someone else. I can't prove that BJL killed RG but I think that the family know the truth. All it would bring out would be a can of worms and you can't convict a dead man. I still wonder about the supposed note. Did he leave one and someone get rid of it? Only the people first on the scene would know. I think that the police know this from the beginning. I don't think that they expected the kind of persistence of citizens. If I had to make a bet, I bet that RG was creamated at Wetzler's Funeral Home in Bellefonte. Then Lara got the necklace with some of his ashes in it. I think that if BJL would not have committed suicide then he would be in jail with probably someone very close to him. Even if BJL's SO just met with RG, it could have happened. You still can't convict a dead person

Just my Thoughts.

Now you have a conspiracy with the funeral home owners and whoever brought RG's body to be cremated. Are you saying the Leathers family or LE would have sent RG's body there?

Or maybe the funeral home RG turned in for disposing of bodily fluids from funerals illegally?

[puzzled]

JL knew that BJL was not going to sign the papers. BJL had asked his mother if he should sign them and she said no. BJL told his father that he was going to meet with Ray and tell him everything. So JL knew that. I am not certain about one thing...I do not know if VM is TL's half brother or if he BJL's baby Momma's half /step brother. I never said that Ray had a relationship with TL. What I believe I was told was that VM thought that Ray had slept with his girlfriend at one time. I do not know if it is true but that is what I was told. Whether it happened or not VM believed that it did.
Thanks for referring to me as a boorish person S1. What was that you said about James Renner? That he is a man kisser....would that be a fact or an innuendo?

Originally Posted by puzzled

<Snip>
Thanks for referring to me as a boorish person S1. What was that you said about James Renner? That he is a man kisser....would that be a fact or an innuendo?

Twas not you, my dear...but rather the glass-slippered one. And the other thing is a fact...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYt6RklOFQk

[puzzled]

That was gross! Nasty....yucko!

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally Posted by puzzled

I think you are missing the point JJ. First of all I do not think BJL killed Ray. I think BJL's father JL may have possibly killed Ray. Also keep in mind that JL is the one that gave BJL an alibi after BJL had died. The police asked JL about BJL's where abouts. The motive for JL would be that he knew that if his son told Ray what he had been up to with the arsons and stuff that Ray would send him back to jail. So you have BJL telling his father I am gonna tell Ray what you have done. That right there would be a huge motive for JL to get rid of Ray. Did you ever wonder if maybe Ray did meet with BJL and BJL told him about all the crimes his father had committed? What if Ray met with BJL on thursday and then told his Dad that he had spilled the beans to Ray? What if TL then set Ray up so that JL and VM could intervene and kill him? BJL was really angry at his father. JL did not want to go back to prison. TL was accusing BJL of shooting her when in fact he did not shoot her. So she is a bonafide liar. God only knows what she may have told Ray in order to set him up. You refuse to seriously delve into this possibility for some reason. But keep one thing in mind JJ if you had the answers to this case you would not be here three and half years later. So therefore if they did kill Ray and BJL knew or suspected it then maybe that is why they then killed BJL ...dead men can not speak.

No, JL wouldn't have had a motive to kill RFG. He could have had a motive to kill his son, but not to kill RFG. BJL, in your scenario, could have spoken to any LE officer.

Also, it's very unlikely that RFG would have gone into the field, as it where, at all, and wouldn't have tried to have a clandestine meeting.

[sherrijean981]

Originally Posted by puzzled

JL knew that BJL was not going to sign the papers. BJL had asked his mother if he should sign them and she said no. BJL told his father that he was going to meet with Ray and tell him everything. So JL knew that. I am not certain about one thing...I do not know if VM is TL's half brother or if he BJL's baby Momma's half /step brother. I never said that Ray had a relationship with TL. What I believe I was told was that VM thought that Ray had slept with his girlfriend at one time. I do not know if it is true but that is what I was told. Whether it happened or not VM believed that it did.
Thanks for referring to me as a boorish person S1. What was that you said about James Renner? That he is a man kisser....would that be a fact or an innuendo?

Who is James Renner? That is the second time you have mentioned that name and still don't know who it is?

[Cinderella]

Originally Posted by snowbird01

CINDERELLA Snipped for length.
Ray had a motel or hotel room already in his name. Maybe he didn't spend several days with PF. The statement that we will wait as long as it takes could fit in this plan because he might have said that he wanted to think things over. I believe that the woman may have wanted to be with him or set him up for someone. At any rate, the construction worker leaned into the car. I think that it was a boyfriend, husband or just someone wanting to get Ray. I kind of think that it was a set up due to the almost perfect setting. The woman might have known that something was going to happen or maybe not. I think that Ray was moving his car in the parking lot because she might have been late or he didn't think that she knew what vehicle he would have been in. Or the situation was manipulated by friends of Ray to make it look like Ray was in Lewisburg, because they didn't want the real truth to be known of what did happen to Ray. People can say they saw anything. If you are a friend of someone you can get people to say things that are not true. It could have been to get everyone's eyes on Lewisburg and not where it happened. After all the news media was there.

I think that the man that met up with Ray while he was with the woman drove Ray in the car and took him someplace else. Possible a camp or some quiet place. Who knows this person could have been blackmailing Ray for a while.

We have a person who supposedly made statements about Ray and was angry at Ray. He made statements that came true. I can't believe that all the statements that I heard second hand were exactly things that came true. So the person kills himself. How do you convict a dead man, you can't. What good would it be to pursue the case, if you thought that this man did it. Even if you thought the body was in cement. How do you get a person out from under cement. What is all of this news going to do to the public, family's? Maybe if knowing what happened and nothing could be done, it might be better to let well enough alone.

To me the police acted like they didn't want to hear anything about Ray unless you had a body. I am not so convinced that they didn't find his body, or maybe not.

I believe the truth was know about Ray at least at the second town meeting. Remember they didn't give Ray too long to show up before the grief session. I think that by the second town meeting that family knew what happened to Ray. Actually if you look at the pictures of the meetings closely, in the first picture, you can see Lara wearing a necklace, then in the second meeting, she had on a different necklace. If my mother hadn't died recently, I wouldn't think anything of it. I don't think that anyone took notice, but Lara was wearing a necklace that holds cremation remains. When people are cremated, many people purchase those necklaces to keep someone close to their heart. I know that Lara could say they were her dogs, or relatives, but I believe that they were Ray's ashes. I believe that the family and friend of Ray didn't want the citizens to know what really happened to Ray because of the great job he did in office and also to protect PF.

I have thought long and hard. This is my conclusion. Knowing the truth if he is deceased would be good. I don't know if doing anything else would be helpful.

I probably left out a lot of things that I wanted to say. I think that this sums up what I think. These are my own opinions and thoughts and no one elses. I think that if you look at the case through this perspective, that it will all fall into place.

I know that I probably ruffled some feathers, but this makes the most sense to me.

I must say that Ray was a damn great DA, who I miss very much and didn't even know him. I wish that I would have attended some of his trials. He fought for the Citizens of Centre County.

Please excuse any typos.

Just my opinion, My opinion only.

So you're saying this is a "no snitch" thing? Better to protect feelings and reputations than find the killer and prosecute him/her?[/quote]

What I am saying is that I think that this may have opened a can or worms for both the families. Also the person that did this maybe have committed suicide later. You can't convict a dead man. Although I am not say that he did it. It could have been a high official's wife that was meeting Ray.

[J. J. in Phila]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Renner

[Cinderella]

Originally Posted by Chump#7

She's saying that the murderer, in this scenario BJL, was already dead shortly after Ray disappeared. Therefore, he was unable to be punished for his crime. And by letting the details out to the public as to how this went down would only serve to tarnish Ray's image. So the decision was made to let that one go, provide alibi's consistent with the "timeline", and move on.

That about right Cindy?

The BJL angle was another one pushed aside quickly. Rehash anyone? I'm game. If nothing else it was a fascinating read - would have made a great movie.

Chump #7, it coud have very well have been the case.

[Cinderella]

Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila

No, JL wouldn't have had a motive to kill RFG. He could have had a motive to kill his son, but not to kill RFG. BJL, in your scenario, could have spoken to any LE officer.

Also, it's very unlikely that RFG would have gone into the field, as it where, at all, and wouldn't have tried to have a clandestine meeting.

J. J. JL did have motive to kill RG. RG put JL in jail for motesting family members. J. J. JL. hated Ray. J. L wanted compete control of BJL and didn't want Ray to interfere.

[Cinderella]

Originally Posted by puzzled

I think you are missing the point JJ. First of all I do not think BJL killed Ray. I think BJL's father JL may have possibly killed Ray. Also keep in mind that JL is the one that gave BJL an alibi after BJL had died. The police asked JL about BJL's where abouts. The motive for JL would be that he knew that if his son told Ray what he had been up to with the arsons and stuff that Ray would send him back to jail. So you have BJL telling his father I am gonna tell Ray what you have done. That right there would be a huge motive for JL to get rid of Ray. Did you ever wonder if maybe Ray did meet with BJL and BJL told him about all the crimes his father had committed? What if Ray met with BJL on thursday and then told his Dad that he had spilled the beans to Ray? What if TL then set Ray up so that JL and VM could intervene and kill him? BJL was really angry at his father. JL did not want to go back to prison. TL was accusing BJL of shooting her when in fact he did not shoot her. So she is a bonafide liar. God only knows what she may have told Ray in order to set him up. You refuse to seriously delve into this possibility for some reason. But keep one thing in mind JJ if you had the answers to this case you would not be here three and half years later. So therefore if they did kill Ray and BJL knew or suspected it then maybe that is why they then killed BJL ...dead men can not speak.

I would love to know who gave BJL and JL their alibis.

[Cinderella]

Originally Posted by sherrijean981

Who is James Renner? That is the second time you have mentioned that name and still don't know who it is?

I would love to know when the papers were to be signed. The aunt said that BLJ's mother hadn't see him in a while before he died. So I would like to know when the conversation took place.

[Cinderella]

Originally Posted by logicworks

Placed in that context, there were a few very strange things early on.

First, RG is reported missing.
Second, little more than 24 hours later, BJL ends up dead in the parking lot where a woman who had him put in jail resides.
Third, the following day, the news reads 'suicide possible' for RG, but NO body?
Fourth, grief counciling is held immediately after RG doesn't show up for work.
Fifth, the necklace Cind mentions, on LG.
Sixth, IIRC, someone mentioned that BJL's ex, the mother of his daughter, family members of PF, also wore the same kind of necklace, hers with BJL's ashes in it?

I would like most of all to know the actual origin of the 'bragging' story. NO one just makes a confession to murder up on his way out, and it's a confession of murder not heard until after BJL is dead, making BJL quite the easy target since he can't defend himself. I still think somehow finding the source of that 'bragging' statement is key.

As a murder mystery movie, what does it play out as---- a family feud gone wrong? The biggest mystery I see is what was BJL doing at the house of a woman who had him put in jail, and was then involved with his father? Did BJL hear the news in the bar and immediately suspect? Was the 'bragging' confession made up to cover for someone else? Yet another full report I wish was released, but that one will likely never be seen.
The seventh very strange occurrence, the PSP-CIA get together to see if there is anything overlooked, and JL is arrested.

Was it two separate stories five miles apart playing out at the same time? Or is it one story, with the truth being hidden?
JMO

LogicWork, Do you have a blown up picture that Lara was wearing? My sister bought hers from Wetzler Funeral Home in Bellefonte.

[Cinderella]

Originally Posted by sherrijean981

Now you have a conspiracy with the funeral home owners and whoever brought RG's body to be cremated. Are you saying the Leathers family or LE would have sent RG's body there?

Or maybe the funeral home RG turned in for disposing of bodily fluids from funerals illegally?

I am saying that it is a possibility. Lara was wearing the necklace that they sell. The funeral home will put the ashes in. Wetzlers has a creamatory. Wetzlers would keep quiet. It is one of the best Funereal Homes in Bellefone. I don't know if there are other. Wetler's in Milesburg.

[Cinderella]

Originally Posted by sherrijean981

No, VM lives off Rt 144, on Green's Valley Rd.

I wonder why BJL and JL didn't just have a shoot out with each other and leave RG out of it? RG was an innocent bystander to the evil and criminal ways of the Leathers family. And if TL is the type of person to sleep with father of husband can any of you seriously think RG would have a relationship with her? I don't think so!

VM's dad lives on 192. Isn't Green's Valle Road off of 192? In my statement, I offered BJL as a killer. It could have been some else.

[Cinderella]

Originally Posted by sherrijean981

Now you have a conspiracy with the funeral home owners and whoever brought RG's body to be cremated. Are you saying the Leathers family or LE would have sent RG's body there?

Or maybe the funeral home RG turned in for disposing of bodily fluids from funerals illegally?

I am saying that Ray Gricar would most likely sent Rays both there.

BJL was creamated, but I don't know where.

[Cinderella]

Originally Posted by Serendipitous1

Twas not you, my dear...but rather the glass-slippered one. And the other thing is a fact...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYt6RklOFQk

So I am boring S1. This site was almost dead and I got some people thinking. Did i say something that made you angry. Just count me one of your Pete Bosak's that you usually put down. If someone doesn't agree with you then they are wrong. Go have some more mushrooms.

[Cloudbuster]

Maybe we could solve this once and for all. Maybe by asking the family if a dog could be taken to the property? One that can find human remains. I know we can't ask to go on JL's property but maybe the mom would allow it on BL's property?

[sherrijean981]

Originally Posted by Cinderella

VM's dad lives on 192. Isn't Green's Valle Road off of 192? In my statement, I offered BJL as a killer. It could have been some else.

Remember when we were discussing the VM connection before? Greens Valley Rd ended shortly after VM's address, with a fence now up so they can go no further with a car. There is a trail though that can be followed from that road to Blue Ball Rd and crossed over to go to Madisonburg. Blue Ball Rd was the connection to Rt 192 and Rt 64 near Mingoeville.

Also the trail from the VM's end of Greens Valley Rd does go to the quarry on Rt 64, just outside of Pleasant Gap.

[sherrijean981]

Originally Posted by Cloudbuster

Maybe we could solve this once and for all. Maybe by asking the family if a dog could be taken to the property? One that can find human remains. I know we can't ask to go on JL's property but maybe the mom would allow it on BL's property?

You would think JL would allow that too, if he had nothing to hide.

[puzzled]

The mom told police a long time ago that they could go and search but the police refused to do so.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally Posted by sherrijean981

You would think JL would allow that too, if he had nothing to hide.

I don't think JL would allow it.