Michelle Young Sept 26, 2008

[Kat4Eagles]

Please pick it up here.



Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

If we could know just one thing for sure, just give us the estimated time of death .

Narrow it down to 2-3 hours at least.

This midnite to 6 am is too long.


Kat

[bookie]

Originally Posted by onederwomyn

And everyone -- I can actually shed some light on this because I have worked in a few hotels while in college.

The washing of linens and vacuuming is religiously done. HOWEVER, the bedspread/comforters for many places only get washed weekly or sometimes monthly. ICK! I usually strip them off...

I believe there was even a dateline showing all the crap on some of the comforters...

I worked in hotels too and yes floors are vacuumed often but they aren't steam cleaned which is what is needed to kill germs. Not that any of this has anything to do with the case. A person's shoe wearing habit is their own. Just because I always wear shoes and you feel comfortable walking hotel hallways in your socks doesn't prove Jason was leaving the hotel that night.

Originally Posted by Kat4Eagles

If we could know just one thing for sure, just give us the estimated time of death .

Narrow it down to 2-3 hours at least.

This midnite to 6 am is too long.


Kat

I agree and I am sure there is a closer time line of Michelle`s death.

[5swab5]

Originally Posted by bookie

I worked in hotels too and yes floors are vacuumed often but they aren't steam cleaned which is what is needed to kill germs. Not that any of this has anything to do with the case. A person's shoe wearing habit is their own. Just because I always wear shoes and you feel comfortable walking hotel hallways in your socks doesn't prove Jason was leaving the hotel that night.

I agree about the shoes, no biggie one way or another.

But, nothing says I am leaving for the night like a long sleeve sweater, especially a missing long sleeve sweater.

MOO

Swabby

[annalyzer]

Originally Posted by Kat4Eagles

Please pick it up here.



Kat

Hey, I'm still catching up over there! j/k Still lmao over your not rude because you covered your mouth comment. lol

[annalyzer]

Originally Posted by onederwomyn

So...is Cassidy (well, Jason) receiving social security benefits because of Michelle's death?

Most likely.

[JHP]

Originally Posted by bookie

I worked in hotels too and yes floors are vacuumed often but they aren't steam cleaned which is what is needed to kill germs. Not that any of this has anything to do with the case. A person's shoe wearing habit is their own. Just because I always wear shoes and you feel comfortable walking hotel hallways in your socks doesn't prove Jason was leaving the hotel that night.

What we don't know is if there are more photos of J in the hallways at any time after the midnight one on the S/W. If there are none I would say he left the hotel for some reason. For a long period of time. If they have pictures of him retuning to the room at say 2:15
then I think the chance he killed her is slim. But maybe there was an accomplice he met with.

I would like to know more.
JMO

I hate shoes, I don't think twice about running around hotels barefoot. However after some of your comments I might have to rethink it.

[bookie]

Originally Posted by 5swab5

I agree about the shoes, no biggie one way or another.

But, nothing says I am leaving for the night like a long sleeve sweater, especially a missing long sleeve sweater.

MOO

Swabby

In your opinion maybe. It's 76 degrees here right now and my MIL is sitting in her house wearing a sweater and has a throw blanket on her legs. I could be sweating and she'd be freezing. So that's also that depends on the person.

Originally Posted by 5swab5

I agree about the shoes, no biggie one way or another.

But, nothing says I am leaving for the night like a long sleeve sweater, especially a missing long sleeve sweater.

MOO

Swabby

Who says it is missing,someone has to be looking for it to be missing. MOO
ETA Is it a sweater or sweat shirt?

[annalyzer]

Originally Posted by HI_CYCLE

Who says it is missing,someone has to be looking for it to be missing. MOO
ETA Is it a sweater or sweat shirt?

Looks like a regular pullover shirt to me.

[5swab5]

Originally Posted by bookie

In your opinion maybe. It's 76 degrees here right now and my MIL is sitting in her house wearing a sweater and has a throw blanket on her legs. I could be sweating and she'd be freezing. So that's also that depends on the person.

Comparing what women and men do at any given temperature is useless.

Jason didn't need a sweater to go to the front desk.

MOO
Swabby

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally Posted by annalyzer

Hey, I'm still catching up over there! j/k Still lmao over your not rude because you covered your mouth comment. lol

Hi Anna........!!

CW says to wrap it up around Page 15 or so, and we went over the speed limit.

Thank you and everyone else for joining us here !!



Kat

[bookie]

Originally Posted by 5swab5

Comparing what women and men do at any given temperature is useless.

Jason didn't need a sweater to go to the front desk.

MOO
Swabby

That is your opinion, not mine but I do tend to keep an open mind.

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally Posted by 5swab5

Comparing what women and men do at any given temperature is useless.

Jason didn't need a sweater to go to the front desk.

MOO
Swabby

Whoa now, hold up there, little lady.

Let's say Jason got a shower and had to go out to the car for something he forgot.

A sweater would make sense so he did not catch a cold or :cough:

Same with shoes, it was cold out....remember??

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally Posted by bookie

That is your opinion, not mine but I do tend to keep an open mind.

This is one of those arguments that could go on for days, like the leaves, (which, ,thankfully I slept through) cause we just don't know what Jason's habits were.

But, I am one of the neat freaks too, shoes come off at the door, carpets are clean and I walk around barefooted.

But, I don't do that so much when I stay over in AC.

No matter how clean the room looks, you never know who slept in that bed or what they did in that room before we got there.

So, I guess it is a toss~up.



Kat

[5swab5]

Originally Posted by HI_CYCLE

(snipped)ETA Is it a sweater or sweat shirt?

My good deed for the day, I looked it up.

Page #1 of the Feb SW:

#5) dark colored, long sleeve pullover garment with a lighter colored thin stripe bisecting the chest area.

So I guess we don't know. I will say that the texture of the garment in that pic at the front desk looks much rougher to me, than the lighter colored shirt that Jason had on when he checked in.

MOO

Swabby

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally Posted by onederwomyn

So he left his room open and left the building?

I actually would have no problem with the "needed something out of his car" scenario....had he used his keycard to get back into the room.

Vending machine with door propped...ok...I can imagine that. Parking lot? No.

That's hard to say.

I could see a guy leaving his door open, more than a woman, though.

I think Jason supposedly traveled a lot, and I don't know what his habits were.

Sometimes card keys can be a pain, they will keep giving you a red light, instead of the green light to let you in..

We always stay on the 28th floor or above , so it's not like I am running down to the lobby without using the elevator.

But, now here is a neat thing, you need a elevator card to get to your floor to get to your room to use your door key card.

I see people leaving doors open a lot though.

As for Jason, I just don't know..

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally Posted by onederwomyn

On the supposedly traveled alot note...how often? Does anyone really know? I mean, I know he traveled for work, but I would be really interested in seeing how often he spent the night and specifically for business within 6 hours from home.

I am not saying that him staying is not believable, because I have stayed half way for certain things. I just would like to know to establish a pattern. For example, had he done this twice a month for a year and this fit the pattern? Or, was this particularly night a once in a blue moon (like, first time in 6 months) type of thing.

I don't know , I just read/ heard he was on the road a lot .

I am not sure how often he traveled or if it required him to stay over much.

You did remind me of an earlier post that someone said they once asked Michelle if she was afraid to stay alone.

To which she supposedly replied "No, why?
Is someone going to break in and kill me?"

Early post, no link, just eerie words to remember.

Kat

[5swab5]

Originally Posted by onederwomyn

On the supposedly traveled alot note...how often? Does anyone really know? I mean, I know he traveled for work, but I would be really interested in seeing how often he spent the night and specifically for business within 6 hours from home.

I am not saying that him staying is not believable, because I have stayed half way for certain things. I just would like to know to establish a pattern. For example, had he done this twice a month for a year and this fit the pattern? Or, was this particularly night a once in a blue moon (like, first time in 6 months) type of thing.

You are correct, Jason's travel log will indeed be interesting at trial.

I cannot believe that any company that shows a profit, is in the habit of paying for its "traveling salesmen" to routinely stay in hotels only 170 miles from their home. That is absurd.

It is 5 hours from my house to Kitty Hawk on the shore and no one has ever contemplated stopping and spending the night half way there.

MOO

Swabby

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally Posted by 5swab5

You are correct, Jason's travel log will indeed be interesting at trial.

I cannot believe that any company that shows a profit, is in the habit of paying for its "traveling salesmen" to routinely stay in hotels only 170 miles from their home. That is absurd.

It is 5 hours from my house to Kitty Hawk on the shore and no one has ever contemplated stopping and spending the night half way there.

MOO

Swabby

There you go, talking about Jason's trial again.

2 killers, Swabby.

There has always been that pesky 2 killer theory floating around, and now you got 2 different shoes, 2 different styles, 2 different sizes, 2 different patterns, 2 killers.

I was thinking about the pillow.

If it were a bed pillow, that managed to get on the floor during the struggle, I can't see anyone deliberately walking on a bed pillow.

I am wondering if there was some kicking involved and if the pillow was on Michelle as if she was shielding herself, and that is how the prints came about.

Could any of Michelle's head injuries or wounds come from being kicked?

Remember that old post that someone said something was done to Michelle after she was dead...

Could it be that she was kicked?

Sorry for the insensitivity.



Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally Posted by 5swab5

:snipped:

It is 5 hours from my house to Kitty Hawk on the shore and no one has ever contemplated stopping and spending the night half way there.

MOO

Swabby

So, if Jason got on the road close to 8:pm, and wanted to drive straight through to Clintwood, it is ,once again"::, a 5 hour and 34 minute drive, putting him there at approx 1:30 in the morning.



Kat

[5swab5]

Originally Posted by Kat4Eagles

So, if Jason got on the road close to 8:pm, and wanted to drive straight through to Clintwood, it is ,once again"::, a 5 hour and 34 minute drive, putting him there at approx 1:30 in the morning.



Kat

So?

He should have either left earlier, or better yet...got up early in the morning to leave. Much ado about nothing for a brief meeting that he was late for.

Besides, what is a 5½ hour drive for a traveling salesman, they stay on the road.

MOO

Swabby

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by Kat4Eagles

There you go, talking about Jason's trial again.

2 killers, Swabby.

There has always been that pesky 2 killer theory floating around, and now you got 2 different shoes, 2 different styles, 2 different sizes, 2 different patterns, 2 killers.

I was thinking about the pillow.

If it were a bed pillow, that managed to get on the floor during the struggle, I can't see anyone deliberately walking on a bed pillow.

I am wondering if there was some kicking involved and if the pillow was on Michelle as if she was shielding herself, and that is how the prints came about.

Could any of Michelle's head injuries or wounds come from being kicked?

Remember that old post that someone said something was done to Michelle after she was dead...

Could it be that she was kicked?

Sorry for the insensitivity.



Kat

I'm sorry too, but I've always wondered if she might have been kicked. I think that could account for what some think is 2 different strengths of blows.

The kicks putting the prints on the pillowcase is an interesting possibility, Kat.

JMO



And I will now pack slippers when staying in a motel!

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally Posted by 5swab5

So?

He should have either left earlier, or better yet...got up early in the morning to leave. Much ado about nothing for a brief meeting that he was late for.

Besides, what is a 5½ hour drive for a traveling salesman, they stay on the road.

MOO

Swabby

We don't know for a fact that Jason was late..

That is an unknown.


Kat

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by Brooklyn

Why would 2 different shoes 'kick' a pillowcase ?
Maybe to soften the blows

I don't know - I still don't have a good scenario for the footprints being on the pillowcase at all. But I have always thought it possible that some of the blows were kicks. I guess it would make more sense to me that the footprints occurred as a byproduct of a rage that would lend itself to kicks, than if someone just stepped on a pillow.

JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally Posted by Cardinal

I'm sorry too, but I've always wondered if she might have been kicked. I think that could account for what some think is 2 different strengths of blows.

The kicks putting the prints on the pillowcase is an interesting possibility, Kat.

JMO



And I will now pack slippers when staying in a motel!

I am not sure if any of Michelle's wounds are consistent with kicking ,though, do you think that they could be?

Or, if someone just stomped on the pillow if Michelle was holding it?

I just don't get the walking on a pillow.

Bed pillow, throw pillow, actual pillow, or pillow case?


Good idea about the slippers.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally Posted by Cardinal

I don't know - I still don't have a good scenario for the footprints being on the pillowcase at all. But I have always thought it possible that some of the blows were kicks. I guess it would make more sense to me that the footprints occurred as a byproduct of a rage that would lend itself to kicks, than if someone just stepped on a pillow.

JMO

So, then I guess the pillow was on the floor, and somehow this pillow was involved in the struggle and the murder,and that this was the pillow mentioned and moved in the 911 call.

I am staying with that .

Kat

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by Kat4Eagles

I am not sure if any of Michelle's wounds are consistent with kicking ,though, do you think that they could be?

Or, if someone just stomped on the pillow if Michelle was holding it?

I just don't get the walking on a pillow.

Bed pillow, throw pillow, actual pillow, or pillow case?


Good idea about the slippers.

Kat

I checked the SW and the autopsy report. The SW just says "pillow". I suppose it could be a bed pillow, or one of those decorative smaller ones. The smaller one might be more likely to be stepped on.

But the autopsy report.......remember the "crescentic abrasion"? Suppose it was the tip of a shoe?

JMO

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by Brooklyn

I bet we hear about many more prints in that room.
The pillow on the floor just provided the clearest evidence due to the smooth texture.

I can see that. And I would be really surprised if there weren't other footprints in the room.

JMO

[5swab5]

Originally Posted by Kat4Eagles

So, then I guess the pillow was on the floor, and somehow this pillow was involved in the struggle and the murder,and that this was the pillow mentioned and moved in the 911 call.

I am staying with that .

Kat

There is zip, nada, nothing to indicate that the pillow that Meredith moved was the one with the footprints on it.

Good Grief, how many married couples only have one pillow in their bedroom?

MOO

Swabby

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally Posted by 5swab5

There is zip, nada, nothing to indicate that the pillow that Meredith moved was the one with the footprints on it.

Good Grief, how many married couples only have one pillow in their bedroom?

MOO

Swabby

In order to get to Michelle, if there were a pillow by her, it would have to be moved, right?

Why would you take a pillow off the bed?
Or just reach for another pillow somewhere else?

This is the pillow.

Kat

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by Kat4Eagles

In order to get to Michelle, if there were a pillow by her, it would have to be moved, right?

Why would you take a pillow off the bed?
Or just reach for another pillow somewhere else?

This is the pillow.

Kat

It could be, Kat. But IIRC, right before Meredith moved the pillow, she mentioned blood in the bed. So she could have moved a pillow on the bed, instead.

JMO

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by .02¢

It's all about the mindset. Anyone but Jason.

Actually, I don't think we were talking so much about "who did it" as we were about "how it was done".

JMHO

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally Posted by Cardinal

Actually, I don't think we were talking so much about "who did it" as we were about "how it was done".

JMHO

Yes, we were.

Thank you, Card.

Kat

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by Kat4Eagles

Yes, we were.

Thank you, Card.

Kat

You're welcome. And I think it was a good discussion. FWIW, I really enjoyed reading the discussion earlier today. Very constructive, I thought.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that the abrasion was the tip of a shoe.

JMO

[5swab5]

Originally Posted by Kat4Eagles

In order to get to Michelle, if there were a pillow by her, it would have to be moved, right?

Why would you take a pillow off the bed?
Or just reach for another pillow somewhere else?

This is the pillow.

Kat

Nope, no way of knowing that.

You actually believe that Michelle endured the beating she did and only one pillow fell off the bed?

Not logical.

MOO

Swabby

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by .02¢

I disagree. Although Swabby was the one to mention Meredith, the insinuation was there when Kat4Eagles talked about the pillow being moved on the 9-1-1 call. I guess it's all in how you read what's put out there. Thanks for correcting me.

I wasn't trying to correct you; I'm sorry if that's how what I said came across. I was just stating my perspective, and my position in the conversation.

I guess everyone interprets things from their own perspective and position. I know I do.

JMO

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by 5swab5

Nope, no way of knowing that.

You actually believe that Michelle endured the beating she did and only one pillow fell off the bed?

Not logical.

MOO

Swabby

I think the first blow sent Michelle off the bed - I think she would have tried to get away at that point. If that's true, there's no way to know how many pillows fell off the bed.

And that's assuming she was in the bed when first attacked. I'm not sure that's a valid assumption.

JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally Posted by Cardinal

You're welcome. And I think it was a good discussion. FWIW, I really enjoyed reading the discussion earlier today. Very constructive, I thought.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that the abrasion was the tip of a shoe.

JMO

Yes, we have been having some good discussions.

Something else always continues to bug me, it was an old post where someone said something awful was done to Michelle after she died.

I never forgot that, although I have no idea what it meant.

Possibly nothing, because Michelle suffered such a horrible death as it was.

And, if it really was that horrible, than MF would have noticed it.

Then I remember C's words of Mommy having boo boo's everywhere and I am wondering what she sees, if Michelle is twisted and facing down..what is visible to C, and again why did MF not notice the wounds C describes.

What is C talking about?

Then I wonder how long this struggle took place, and why it took so long to kill Michelle, it almost seems like the killer was prolonging it, and why would they do that?

Unless it was a thrill kill, and they were in no hurry to leave, and they even left all the lights on in the house as their calling card.

Then , there is this.
Maybe the attempted strangulation was stopped on purpose..!!

I need a break!!

Kat