NYC Wants NON-CITIZENS to Have Right to Vote! What’s Next, Electing Non Citizens

In advance of the 2009 citywide elections, a coalition of immigrant and advocacy organizations is reigniting a fight to give noncitizens the right to vote in municipal elections, drawing the ire of opponents who argue that voting is a right for American citizens only. At a rally outside City Hall yesterday organized by the New York Coalition to Expand Voting Rights, supporters of a City Council bill that would extend voting rights to 1.3 million noncitizen New Yorkers said it’s unfair that immigrant residents pay more than $18 billion in state income taxes when they can’t vote for their representatives. The group is planning to pressure elected officials to back the legislation, which has been on file for more than two years but hasn’t moved forward. A supporter of the bill, Council Member Robert Jackson of Harlem, said in his district alone there are about 40,000 people who are paying taxes and don’t have the right to vote. He said the coalition needed to publicize the position of every council member on the proposal and the reasons for their stances. He suggested that those opposed to giving noncitizens the right to vote might be motivated by racism, and noted that in the early years of American history noncitizens were allowed to vote. That ended after World War I.
http://oneoldvet.com/?p=8101

[Smoof]

I think this reader's response at

http://www.nysun.com/new-york/racism...-rights/85345/

says it all

Reader comment on:
Racism Is Charged of Opponents of Voting Rights for Noncitizens
Submitted by Porterhouse, Sep 8, 2008 13:23


First of all, the NYC council doesn't have the authority to grant voting rights to anyone, legal or illegal. That's the responsibility of the Federal Govt. and even the Feds can't authorize voting rights for illegals! This is simply another attempt by the Marxist backers and controllers of the illegal immigrant movement to control our political process. The "notoriously corrupt" city council would be better advised to concentrate on keeping themselves out of prison, (no easy task) rather than trying to use powers they don't have. And if jlo's numbers above are correct, then 1 out of 5 NY'ers shouldn't be here! And how much taxes do they pay? How do people who don't legally exist pay taxes? To whom do they pay them, Mexico? Does the IRS now take bags filled with cash sent to them anonymously?

[Rangerx1]

Originally Posted by stopthemurde

As I read it there was NO MENTION OF ILLEGAL ALIENS getting any right to vote. There a millions of legal residents (like myself since 1971) who have elected for reasons of their own not to become citizens of USA (I wanted to keep my EU citizenship in order to have a safer passport for international travel. My country did not allow dual citizenship until last year).

I have worked and paid local taxes, real estate taxes, and sales taxes JUST THE SAME AS all my neighbors have and I do not see any reason why I should not be able to vote on local issues where my local tax dollars are spent. My children (US citizens) have went to schools where I have had no say about school district administration and issues.

I would not to vote since I do not keep up with politics but I would like to have the right to do so in case I did.

If you would have been a fly on the wall looking at my life in USA I would think you would say that what I have done is not different from the average American, but that actually I have held a job paying twice as much as the average family earns per year, so I have paid more taxes for my income, my larger homes, and my better cars, and spent more money on sales taxes. So why should I not have the right to vote on local issues? The only difference between a US citizen and me is a different passport and I have a greencard which expires in 10 years at which time I have to apply for a new one which costs about $300.

Some rights come with being a citizen. As you said, it was your choice not to pursue citizenship. So why should you then get all the rights a citizen does?

[Tracian]

Originally Posted by stopthemurde

If you read my post I did not ask to have ALL THE RIGHTS a citizen does. I only asked to have the right to vote on local matters (city or county), not even at state level.

What difference does it make if I get a US passport? I would still be the same person I am today, no more no less.

Your reply demonstrates so clearly why this country is anti-immigrant in their mentality - and has been since the 70s. No matter how well our education or career speaks of our worthiness we are considered second class people. I don't mind that since it does not bother me. I know who I am and I am proud of who I am. My friends know who I am and do not think of me any differently than they do of their other friends. Actually since I am foreign born and educated and well-traveled I am more interesting they say. But at the dealership a salesperson, who is less intelligent and less educated than I am, looks at me down his nose as if my money is not as good as his. When that happens I take my money elsewhere. I am also a proud citizen of my country and I did not want to give away my birthright just because of a political technicality. Now my country has finally realized that since they have one million expatriates around the world that it is only LOGICAL to allow them to have dual citizenship. On top of that, my son (age 27) will receive his EU citizenship this year as well. He has never lived in any EU country but they consider that it is his birthright to be the citizen of EU due to his genetic heritage.

Now I call that progress to meet the growing demands for global co-operation and peace in the world. Would you fight a war with a country that you are a citizen of? We are all citizens of the world and unfortunate the billons living on this planet do not understand it, and do not want to think of themselves as such. They can only think as you do: US and THEM and we must make sure the separation is clear at all cost.

I have a question, does the country that you have retained citizenship from allow non-citizens to vote?

TIA

[Carol25]

Originally Posted by stopthemurde

As I read it there was NO MENTION OF ILLEGAL ALIENS getting any right to vote. There a millions of legal residents (like myself since 1971) who have elected for reasons of their own not to become citizens of USA (I wanted to keep my EU citizenship in order to have a safer passport for international travel. My country did not allow dual citizenship until last year).

I have worked and paid local taxes, real estate taxes, and sales taxes JUST THE SAME AS all my neighbors have and I do not see any reason why I should not be able to vote on local issues where my local tax dollars are spent. My children (US citizens) have went to schools where I have had no say about school district administration and issues.

I would not to vote since I do not keep up with politics but I would like to have the right to do so in case I did.

If you would have been a fly on the wall looking at my life in USA I would think you would say that what I have done is not different from the average American, but that actually I have held a job paying twice as much as the average family earns per year, so I have paid more taxes for my income, my larger homes, and my better cars, and spent more money on sales taxes. So why should I not have the right to vote on local issues? The only difference between a US citizen and me is a different passport and I have a greencard which expires in 10 years at which time I have to apply for a new one which costs about $300.

Only because you never desired to become a citizen. You never took the time or had the desire to learn about our country, its history or its laws. To be a citizen is a privilege. And to you it doesn't appear that way to you. It is a privilege to vote for our leaders as well as a right. You have worked in this country have paid your dues. You still haven't been granted that privilege for going a step beyond.

[StarShine]

Originally Posted by jenny_92808

Illegal Aliens should not have the right to vote in our country. period!

Absolutely.

[Rangerx1]

Originally Posted by stopthemurde

It is attitudes like yours which is creating a hostile environment for immigrants of all colors in this country. This country will not survive if it cannot import well educated people from other countries.

I love that one. Texanne's hostile attitude? Do you mean the one where she just said she threw a party for a friend of her daughters that gained citizenship? Way to go on that one!

The duty of deciding the course of government falls upon the citizens of this country by exercising their vote, whether it be local or national. It was your choice not to gain citizenship. Don't expect all benefits of citizenship anyway. It becomes an arrogant attitude on your part that you should then influence the path of government by your vote. As always, this comes down to immigrants abiding by the laws as layed out. You want the benefits, apply for citizenship. There is no hostility towards those that desire this. There is the expectation that if a person comes here, they live by the level at which they choose to stay and not beyond it.

[Tracian]

Originally Posted by Tracian

I have a question, does the country that you have retained citizenship from allow non-citizens to vote?

TIA

Quoting myself in hopes of an answer

[Details]

Becoming a citizen means committing to the United States, so yes, I do think you should have decided this is your one home before you get to vote on the direction any part of our country will take. Becoming a citizen means you could be drafted for a war, you have to take part in jury duty, and that you are not sitting there trying to straddle two countries, you have chosen this one - no fallback EU, Mexican, or other citizenship.

Your taxes pay for the benefits you recieve working here, to a greater or lesser degree depending on your income - but they don't make you a citizen. Only choosing to become an American citizen makes you a part of this country sufficiently to decide what direction it will go. It's a different level of commitment than just paying your taxes. It's the difference between a home owner and a renter - one is on the hook for everything, the other is just paying for the space, with no responsibility.

[Rangerx1]

Originally Posted by stopthemurde

To correct Texanne, I am a permanent resident in this country which is quite different from being a guest. A guest is a person who cannot stay and work here without applying for visas and permits to do so, and the person has a limited time for their visit. This country is, has been and will my home and no citizen can change that unless laws are changed or I break some laws of this country.

<snip>

Originally Posted by stopthemurde

So why should I not have the right to vote on local issues? The only difference between a US citizen and me is a different passport and I have a greencard which expires in 10 years at which time I have to apply for a new one which costs about $300.

So is it permanent or reapply in 10 years?

Originally Posted by OvrAndOvrAgn

In advance of the 2009 citywide elections, a coalition of immigrant and advocacy organizations is reigniting a fight to give noncitizens the right to vote in municipal elections, drawing the ire of opponents who argue that voting is a right for American citizens only. At a rally outside City Hall yesterday organized by the New York Coalition to Expand Voting Rights, supporters of a City Council bill that would extend voting rights to 1.3 million noncitizen New Yorkers said it’s unfair that immigrant residents pay more than $18 billion in state income taxes when they can’t vote for their representatives. The group is planning to pressure elected officials to back the legislation, which has been on file for more than two years but hasn’t moved forward. A supporter of the bill, Council Member Robert Jackson of Harlem, said in his district alone there are about 40,000 people who are paying taxes and don’t have the right to vote. He said the coalition needed to publicize the position of every council member on the proposal and the reasons for their stances. He suggested that those opposed to giving noncitizens the right to vote might be motivated by racism, and noted that in the early years of American history noncitizens were allowed to vote. That ended after World War I.
http://oneoldvet.com/?p=8101

My god, there's that word again...........RACISM.......

Originally Posted by jenny_92808

Illegal Aliens should not have the right to vote in our country. period!

But it's ok for them to pay into the system right?

Originally Posted by Texanne

You are rude and obnoxious at a time that you are a guest in someone else's home (USA). I will not give you the respect of responding to any more of your posts. If you do not like our laws, don't let the door (border) hit you in the butt on your way out. I only debate immigration with people whose business it is (Americans). Sorry, our country....our rules. see ya You are on iggy. click

Can't stand the heat?


Well you know what to do............

[Rangerx1]

Originally Posted by stopthemurde

My status is "permanent" but I have to get a new green card every so often(every 10 years? I don't know exactly how often since they took my expired green card when I returned from Europe last year and a new one is getting processed right now). I never thought about it but is the renewal required only if I want to leave the country since no one botherd me while I was here with an expired one? I need to check into their new laws.

In the 70s and 80s I had to send them a card each January registering my address, or at any time I moved. That requirement was dropped. But back then I had a "permanet" greencard.

Then at some time in the 80s they got rid of the "permanent" greencard due to illegal immigrants being able to easily create one. I found out about that coming home from Europe with my "permanent" greencard which was immediately cut in half by a mean looking woman before she explained what the problem was. I had the distinct feeling this woman truely enjoyed this part of her job and she would never allow noncitizens to vote on anything. Then I was escorted to a holding room, interviewed, and two hours later allowed to resume my trip. At that time I was working full time here and had no problems while being ignorant about my invalid greencard. I don't know why they never sent a notice of this important change. They knew my address.

The renewal is similar to you having to renew your passport. Your citizenship does not expire if your passport expires. They also want to be able to investigate every 'alien' every so often which is a great idea. Now they store fingerprints and a photo of the iris on the card. Every country I know requires passports to be renewed. If they did not the crooks could create fakes ones lasting forever.

I just traveled to Europe this month while having no greencard since the new one has not yet arrived. Instead, I had a stamp in my EU passport that one was being processed - the stamp is valid for a year while they are processing my renewal.

It takes a long time to get one now due to all the checks they do and due to the volume they are processing. That's all good for this nation that they take their time. And I do consider my status to be a great privilege to be able to live here. It is a great country with some problems but I believe they can be solved.

Thanks for the insight into things. It's nice to get real world explanations on how these things play out. I think we'd clear up many issues if others that want to live/work here would follow and respect the process as well as you have been. Good to have you here.

[Details]

Originally Posted by stopthemurde

Hi Details,

I appreciate all the valid points you bring up, well said. I have to agree with you on them in as far as general voting and elections go.

But why am I allowed to vote on my HOA issues but not on how my local, real estate, and sales taxes are used in the town I live? And at the local level, some of your arguments are no longer valid (e.g. getting drafted, a female on disability at age 60 no less). And at level, as a permanent resident, I am just as vested in my community as the citizens are.

Due to the fact that I do not live in my home country and have never paid income taxes there, my status there is an expatriate. I am not entitled to the multitude of benefits which the well-off nation offers its citizen. So yes, I can go back home but as a second class citizen since I have elected to make my home elsewhere. I can stay there, even vote, but I would not get the great social benefits after retirement as my relatives back home do.

And pls note that I am discussing this purely for the sake of having an interesting topic. I can live just as well without any rights to vote here as I have since 1971. I have no interest in acting on this to become a new right for noncitizens. Actually the word "noncitizen" is ambiguous since there are at least three types here: permanent residents, legal aliens with visas for various reasons to stay here for a limited time, and illegal aliens. The three groups have different rights and privileges while staying here.

Some things apply to you, others do not - jury duty, for example, you cannot escape. The simple commitment of becoming a citizen as well. I do think all of this applies to local issues as well. To me, it is, the difference between a renter and a homeowner. You live here, but you haven't chosen to commit.

Originally Posted by lita456

But it's ok for them to pay into the system right?

Illegal immigrants are paying into the system? Under what stolen SS# are they paying into the system with? They cost the system way more than what they pay into the system. What makes me want to is Americans like you who want to destroy this country by giving the right to vote to people who have no right to be in this country to begin with.