Caylee Anthony 09-09-08 A>M thread

[nutterbutter]

Good morning all.Please continue here.A new day and renewed hope Caylee will be found soon.
For Caylee

[mojito]

Originally Posted by TREE TREE

READ THESE 2 POST BY Takotna AND Shellberry that I just found on another board.

Quote:
Originally posted by Takotna[*]
This just hit me like a ton of bricks -


Flies flew out of the trunk when George and the Towman opened the trunk -

THERE WOULD BE NO FLIES IF THERE WAS CHLOROFORM IN THE TRUNK

My conclusion - The chloroform was introduced to the trunk after George picked it up.

My speculation - G/C used chloroform to clean the trunk.

IMO [/*]
Shellberry Quote

I think that is a great possibility.
I recently read you can use it to kill fire ants and bee/wasp nests.
living in florida, that would be a sure fire way to get rid of them for good if you had a problem.
I really wouldnt find it odd if they made a mix of it or bought some online for that reason....then used it to 'clean up' the car...

imo/jmo

The only thing about this theory, to me, is that George already talked about the mixture he used to clean with. If HE was the one who used chloroform, he should've admitted it then. He also should come forward now unless he wants to further implicate his own daughter.
Does anyone have proof about the choloroform/fly theory? (that the flies wouldn't be able to live)
Off to work...just my 2 cents...

[crymeariver2006]

I think it's going to boil down to the dates of the computer searches. Anything before 7/14 says Casey is most likely responsible for the chloroform, anything after....could be George or Cindy.

I've never doubted that the trunk was cleaned and that whoever cleaned it missed the few strands of Caylee's hair. Couldn't use bleach because that would discolor the trunk carpeting. Then George comes up with the Arm & Hammer. He also says the "DNA results will be inconclusive".

I'm just not so sure that chloroform was used for cleaning. The computer searches are going to tell the story.

I'm also thinking that it's an exaggeration to say that the chloroform was still so heavy that it could be smelled upon opening the trunk. Wouldn't that have knocked out the tow truck owner and George?

IMO, the chloroform was found in the air test, in addition to the decomp gasses scents.

I'm no scientist, but I doubt any of the Anthonys are either.

[farrahrani]

Originally Posted by TREE TREE

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I do not recall anything Cindy or George saying they actually cleaned the car. Just aired it out.

I do know that ants are really hard to kill at least the ones that were in my garden and the ones my cousin has. We have never been successful in killing them. IF the CH would kill ants and wasp......wouldn`t they kill the flies also........I have even heard the CH in that trunk would of killed the driver, yet George did drive the car.

I dunno. I know that many things that will kill regular houseflies, won't necessarily kill gnats. I think that's what they are called. Those tiny flies that hover around anything decomposing? I went away for a few days, and my kids left some dishes in their room with scraps of food in them. When I came in their room, the smell was godawful because everything was closed up, and those tiny flies were EVERYWHERE. After cleaning up, we got Raid and HotShot bug spray which didn't really work. But it DID kill a regular housefly we let in through a window later.

So maybe chloroform, being stronger and more concentrated would have killed the flies, but did anyone mention flies around the car? I missed that part. All I ever heard about what the smell.

[farrahrani]

I can't find the edit button but crymeariver made a good point, about nobody mentioning the smell. I think some kind of chemical smell would have been mentioned by either the detective who was called to their house, or by any of the family who was standing nearby when the car was opened. While it wouldn't have necessarily knocked them out, as all they had to do was slam the trunk shut and step back, it probably would have been noted in the reports somewhere. And the media would have commented on that smell well before the chloroform search leak. IMO

[kakax]

Originally Posted by TREE TREE

READ THESE 2 POST BY Takotna AND Shellberry that I just found on another board.

Quote:
Originally posted by Takotna[*]
This just hit me like a ton of bricks -


Flies flew out of the trunk when George and the Towman opened the trunk -

THERE WOULD BE NO FLIES IF THERE WAS CHLOROFORM IN THE TRUNK

My conclusion - The chloroform was introduced to the trunk after George picked it up.

My speculation - G/C used chloroform to clean the trunk.

IMO [/*]
Shellberry Quote

I think that is a great possibility.
I recently read you can use it to kill fire ants and bee/wasp nests.
living in florida, that would be a sure fire way to get rid of them for good if you had a problem.
I really wouldnt find it odd if they made a mix of it or bought some online for that reason....then used it to 'clean up' the car...

imo/jmo

I went and found my quote from last night cause I just got up and can't put words together yet LOL. But I agree with you...

#159 Yesterday, 09:30 PM
kakax
Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 2,314

I wish Nancy Grace had spent more time on the chloroform levels. She said that the smell was overpowering when they opened the trunk. About a week ago, Dr. Koby stated that Chloroform was used in DNA laboratories to somehow split DNA. Makes me wonder if it wasn't ordered to cover up what was in the trunk...a concerted effort to mess with any DNA that was in the trunk. Maybe that is why they haven't gotten specific DNA back and haven't arrested her.

[kakax]

Originally Posted by crymeariver2006

I think it's going to boil down to the dates of the computer searches. Anything before 7/14 says Casey is most likely responsible for the chloroform, anything after....could be George or Cindy.

I've never doubted that the trunk was cleaned and that whoever cleaned it missed the few strands of Caylee's hair. Couldn't use bleach because that would discolor the trunk carpeting. Then George comes up with the Arm & Hammer. He also says the "DNA results will be inconclusive".

I'm just not so sure that chloroform was used for cleaning. The computer searches are going to tell the story.

I'm also thinking that it's an exaggeration to say that the chloroform was still so heavy that it could be smelled upon opening the trunk. Wouldn't that have knocked out the tow truck owner and George?

IMO, the chloroform was found in the air test, in addition to the decomp gasses scents.

I'm no scientist, but I doubt any of the Anthonys are either.

I agree with you...the dates are important. I hadn't heard that until NG last night....she isn't always on the mark. We will just have to see.

[cutiepatootie61]

Not so sure the odor of chloroform would have been detected over the decomp odor, this article says it's a pleasant non-irritating odor.


Chloroform, also called trichloromethane or methyltrichloride,
is a colorless liquid with a pleasant, non-irritating odor and a
slightly sweet taste. As a volatile organic compound (VOC),
chloroform easily vaporizes (turns into a gas) in the air.


http://www.odh.ohio.gov/ASSETS/4E4C5...ct%20Sheet.pdf

[trich]

I read yesterday that the searches on the computer on chloroform occured around the time Caylee went missing.
Now if that is true ...mind you I said if it is true....that means IMO although the chloroform may have been in the house or nearby but that the uses for it were investigated back in June.
Somewhere I have heard that in crime investigations they do not believe in coincendences.
It is very possible that Casey killed Caylee with the chloroform and George and Cindy also used it to try and clean the trunk up.

[ladeebug565]

Originally Posted by TREE TREE

READ THESE 2 POST BY Takotna AND Shellberry that I just found on another board.

Quote:
Originally posted by Takotna[*]
This just hit me like a ton of bricks -


Flies flew out of the trunk when George and the Towman opened the trunk -

THERE WOULD BE NO FLIES IF THERE WAS CHLOROFORM IN THE TRUNK

My conclusion - The chloroform was introduced to the trunk after George picked it up.

My speculation - G/C used chloroform to clean the trunk.

IMO [/*]
Shellberry Quote

I think that is a great possibility.
I recently read you can use it to kill fire ants and bee/wasp nests.
living in florida, that would be a sure fire way to get rid of them for good if you had a problem.
I really wouldnt find it odd if they made a mix of it or bought some online for that reason....then used it to 'clean up' the car...

imo/jmo

So, it begs the question, when did the internet searches of chloroform occur and did Cindy have access to it in her work as a nurse? I still don't see telling the 911 operator that the trunk smelled like a dead body AND making an attempt to clean it up. This case is beyond strange.

[cutiepatootie61]

Originally Posted by ladeebug565

So, it begs the question, when did the internet searches of chloroform occur and did Cindy have access to it in her work as a nurse? I still don't see telling the 911 operator that the trunk smelled like a dead body AND making an attempt to clean it up. This case is beyond strange.

The Anthony's had a full 31 hours with the car before LE took it on June 16 at 9:30 PM.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally Posted by kakax

I went and found my quote from last night cause I just got up and can't put words together yet LOL. But I agree with you...

#159 Yesterday, 09:30 PM
kakax
Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 2,314

I wish Nancy Grace had spent more time on the chloroform levels. She said that the smell was overpowering when they opened the trunk. About a week ago, Dr. Koby stated that Chloroform was used in DNA laboratories to somehow split DNA. Makes me wonder if it wasn't ordered to cover up what was in the trunk...a concerted effort to mess with any DNA that was in the trunk. Maybe that is why they haven't gotten specific DNA back and haven't arrested her.

Kobilinsky had already admitted that he had been contacted by Baez. Then Kobilinsky comes up with the DNA extraction theory. Baez wants to use that as an argument to the jury (and/or public) that it was the police who put the chloroform in the car trunk while doing their presumptive testing. That's the impression I got. He later said that it was used in labs (something I had never heard of before).

I strongly believe that IF Kobilinsky has been contacted by the defense, he does not need to be appearing on shows like NG as an "expert TH".

[k_can004]

Good Morning all... today is a new day... very interesting reading so far!

[jerzeegirl]

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...dler.in.Trunk/

although o/t ........hmmmmm

[n/t]

Why would George mention Arm & Hammer? That really bothers me. Was it a slip? Who keeps laundry detergent in their car? I've been trying to research ingredients in laundry detergents and some do contain an ingredient called triclosan which mixed with chlorine and water can cause chloroform gas.

Here are a couple of links:
http://www.dentist.net/dn-article13.asp

http://www.yourlawyer.com/topics/overview/triclosan

With that said, I couldn't find anything yet stating Arm & Hammer contains this ingredient but I haven't had the time to continue my googling. LOL.


Good Morning!

[cutiepatootie61]

Originally Posted by jerzeegirl

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...dler.in.Trunk/

although o/t ........hmmmmm

[trich]

I also wanted to add that after reading what Casey's friends said about Caylee sleeping and nothing could wake her up when Casey took her out with her just is more convincing proof she was drugging the child.
I also think Casey just might take the whole family down with her.....I hope if they have been covering up her crime that they all do go down big time.

[emanondeeni]

Originally Posted by cutiepatootie61

The Anthony's had a full 31 hours with the car before LE took it on June 16 at 9:30 PM.

And we only have their statements as to what was in the car.

[kakax]

Originally Posted by crymeariver2006

Kobilinsky had already admitted that he had been contacted by Baez. Then Kobilinsky comes up with the DNA extraction theory. Baez wants to use that as an argument to the jury (and/or public) that it was the police who put the chloroform in the car trunk while doing their presumptive testing. That's the impression I got. He later said that it was used in labs (something I had never heard of before).

I strongly believe that IF Kobilinsky has been contacted by the defense, he does not need to be appearing on shows like NG as an "expert TH".

No, he shouldn't. And what I also don't understand is if the smell of decomposition was so great, they could also smell an overwhelming aroma of chloroform? Their noses must be very discerning LOL!! I had originally heard that the chloroform was found by the air test. I wish we had more info about the chloroform...levels, location. Last week I heard they found it in the car..passenger side. I guess its all speculation until we hear it in a court of law.

[morson]

Originally Posted by crymeariver2006

Kobilinsky had already admitted that he had been contacted by Baez. Then Kobilinsky comes up with the DNA extraction theory. Baez wants to use that as an argument to the jury (and/or public) that it was the police who put the chloroform in the car trunk while doing their presumptive testing. That's the impression I got. He later said that it was used in labs (something I had never heard of before).

I strongly believe that IF Kobilinsky has been contacted by the defense, he does not need to be appearing on shows like NG as an "expert TH".

I believe that Dr. K said that chloroform could be used in labs to extract DNA. If that is true, it should not harm/destroy the DNA but may make it harder to actually get DNA from whatever samples they took.

Actually, I do think that it is very likely that G & C used chloroform to clean the trunk of the car. Living with fire ants in FL, increases the likelyhood of them actually having chloroform.

[steffaroob4]

Fly theory:
I think that it would depend on the consentration levels of the chloroform in the car. The levels may have been a hundred times higher than any type of natural level, we just don't know too much at this point. I doubt that the levels were high enough to kill anything if it was 2 or 3 weeks later after trunk being exposed to the chemical. I guess we will just have to wait, do you think they would be able to test the garbage from the dumpster to see if there were traces soaked in any of items in the garbage? I wonder when we will find out the dates of the computer searches. I don't think GA had enough time to put anything in that trunk, do we know where he was on the 15th, did he go to work, after picking up car?

[emanondeeni]

Originally Posted by trich

I also wanted to add that after reading what Casey's friends said about Caylee sleeping and nothing could wake her up when Casey took her out with her just is more convincing proof she was drugging the child.
I also think Casey just might take the whole family down with her.....I hope if they have been covering up her crime that they all do go down big time.

Those remarks by her friends are very telling. IMO it is a very rare child that can sleep anywhere a party is going on...if anything, they force themselves to stay awake.

[SavannahStar]

Originally Posted by kakax

No, he shouldn't. And what I also don't understand is if the smell of decomposition was so great, they could also smell an overwhelming aroma of chloroform? Their noses must be very discerning LOL!! I had originally heard that the chloroform was found by the air test. I wish we had more info about the chloroform...levels, location. Last week I heard they found it in the car..passenger side. I guess its all speculation until we hear it in a court of law.

I think it's definitely all speculation. Since this chloroform news broke, for one thing, I've heard "suspiciously high levels," "high levels," "traces," "huge amounts," etc. I assumed the info came from the Body Farm testing. Then I heard it was from FBI testing. Then I heard both. So who knows what to believe.

As far as Dr. K going on TH shows after having been contacted by Baez, I don't see that as a problem. We don't know that he is, or will be, hired by the defense. It's my understanding Baez said he was contacting forensic people to explore some things. As can be expected. For all we know LE may have contacted Dr. K as well. Baez could also have contacted other forensic people too....Baden etc. We just don't know. I don't find Dr. K to be acting like he is on one side or the other right now, he's just giving out information. Maybe some of it "we" don't like, so it is therefore suspect?

[kOOkie1]

I cant see Casey knowing much about Chloroform ..although possible.. just doesnt, to me, seem likely. I would think GA&CA used it to mask the decomp. smell. I agree the computer searches are going to be key because ONE of them researched it. Will be interesting how they will "spin" that ~Mannn i wanna know the date!!!!(jmo)

[emanondeeni]

Originally Posted by steffaroob4

Fly theory:
I think that it would depend on the consentration levels of the chloroform in the car. The levels may have been a hundred times higher than any type of natural level, we just don't know too much at this point. I doubt that the levels were high enough to kill anything if it was 2 or 3 weeks later after trunk being exposed to the chemical. I guess we will just have to wait, do you think they would be able to test the garbage from the dumpster to see if there were traces soaked in any of items in the garbage? I wonder when we will find out the dates of the computer searches. I don't think GA had enough time to put anything in that trunk, do we know where he was on the 15th, did he go to work, after picking up car?

The garbage bag from the trunk has me curious....I would like to know what was in the bag (other than pizza) that would attract flies and maggots. And what kind of flies were they. No one has said. If they were blowflies wouldn't there need to be something that those flies would only be on in there?

Good morning friends. Interesting discussion about the flies. How the heck could they get into a closed trunk anyway?

Also, didn't we learn that chloroform isn't as dense as oxygen and therefore would be found in the upper part of the trunk, so there could still be air to breathe in the bottom? In other words, the flies could survive in the trunk?

[ccat]

Did anyone notice Casey's attitude yesterday when she was en route to her meeting? She was walking very cocky and confidently. That spoke volumes to e. It seems as though she feels invincible because she probably is confident that she did something to little Caylee that no one can find.

Originally Posted by trich

I also wanted to add that after reading what Casey's friends said about Caylee sleeping and nothing could wake her up when Casey took her out with her just is more convincing proof she was drugging the child.
I also think Casey just might take the whole family down with her.....I hope if they have been covering up her crime that they all do go down big time.

I agree with all of your points Trich!! I believe I heard that it is possible to trace chloroform ingestion by performing a hair analysis. I sure hope they had enough hair samples to perform this testing of Caylee's hair. IMO.

If not from the hair found in the trunk, then certainly from the possible hair found on the brush they took of Caylees.

[emanondeeni]

Originally Posted by Regina.Lampert

Good morning friends. Interesting discussion about the flies. How the heck could they get into a closed trunk anyway?

Also, didn't we learn that chloroform isn't as dense as oxygen and therefore would be found in the upper part of the trunk, so there could still be air to breathe in the bottom? In other words, the flies could survive in the trunk?

If the vapor is more dense than oxygen, it would be at the bottom of the trunk.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally Posted by Regina.Lampert

Good morning friends. Interesting discussion about the flies. How the heck could they get into a closed trunk anyway?

Also, didn't we learn that chloroform isn't as dense as oxygen and therefore would be found in the upper part of the trunk, so there could still be air to breathe in the bottom? In other words, the flies could survive in the trunk?

I thought I heard it was heavier than oxygen and would be found at the bottom of the trunk. Oxygen would remain highest at the top of the trunk.



BTW, webcam2 shows wider view of Anthony's yard. For Sale by Owner is in the neighbor's yard.

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/live/mobilecam2.html

[SwFlorida]

Originally Posted by n/t

Why would George mention Arm & Hammer? That really bothers me. Was it a slip? Who keeps laundry detergent in their car? I've been trying to research ingredients in laundry detergents and some do contain an ingredient called triclosan which mixed with chlorine and water can cause chloroform gas.

Here are a couple of links:
http://www.dentist.net/dn-article13.asp

http://www.yourlawyer.com/topics/overview/triclosan

With that said, I couldn't find anything yet stating Arm & Hammer contains this ingredient but I haven't had the time to continue my googling. LOL.


Good Morning!

I cant remember if I ever read whether it was Arm & Hammer Laundry soap or was it Arm & Hammer baking SODA?.. My DH use to be a shrimper and once he had to use my Jeep to haul some shrimp. Long story short.. The Jeep stunk to high heaven. Gross. ,, The only thing we could find to get the smell out was A&H baking soda.. Just a thought to ponder.

[kOOkie1]

Just wondering..soo, Casey is a Person of Interest in the case..is that correct? now..legally is that different from being a Suspect..or is that kind of the same thing?(jmo)

[witchywoman]

Originally Posted by nutterbutter

Good morning all.Please continue here.A new day and renewed hope Caylee will be found soon.
For Caylee

Thank you for starting a thread..

Wish i could stay and chat everyone, but ive got to work a lil while, take some calls from the uk, do some tarot readings...

BUT, ill be back as soon as i can...

thanking everyone ahead of time for the links, the info, the 411..thank u everyone for keeping witchy in the know...

chanting Caylee is found

[steffaroob4]

Originally Posted by Regina.Lampert

I agree with all of your points Trich!! I believe I heard that it is possible to trace chloroform ingestion by performing a hair analysis. I sure hope they had enough hair samples to perform this testing of Caylee's hair. IMO.

If not from the hair found in the trunk, then certainly from the possible hair found on the brush they took of Caylees.

Do we know if chloroform can be found in hair? That would interest me, I have been wondering if she used chloroform on those yapping dogs.

I wonder if the garbage was setting outside for a day or two, before being placed in the trunk, I have a hard time figuring out how flies got in the trunk. Do you think if a window was left open a crack, that they could get to the trunk that way?

[crymeariver2006]

Originally Posted by ccat

Did anyone notice Casey's attitude yesterday when she was en route to her meeting? She was walking very cocky and confidently. That spoke volumes to e. It seems as though she feels invincible because she probably is confident that she did something to little Caylee that no one can find.

As I recall, Scott Peterson also had that same attitude.

[zippy]

Was re-reading Doc last night and was checking card from Sawgrass apts. and noticed the signature card was signed : c- zenaida Gonzale, am I reading this incorrectly?

[bluwaters]

Please Light a Candle for Caylee

Click any unlit candle to start.

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/...l=eng&gi=cayle

[steffaroob4]

Originally Posted by crymeariver2006

I thought I heard it was heavier than oxygen and would be found at the bottom of the trunk. Oxygen would remain highest at the top of the trunk.



BTW, webcam2 shows wider view of Anthony's yard. For Sale by Owner is in the neighbor's yard.

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/live/mobilecam2.html

Oh dear, there goes the neighborhood, this thing needs to end.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally Posted by SwFlorida

I cant remember if I ever read whether it was Arm & Hammer Laundry soap or was it Arm & Hammer baking SODA?.. My DH use to be a shrimper and once he had to use my Jeep to haul some shrimp. Long story short.. The Jeep stunk to high heaven. Gross. ,, The only thing we could find to get the smell out was A&H baking soda.. Just a thought to ponder.

George said "Arm & Hammer laundry detergent". That was one of those moments for me.

[emanondeeni]

Originally Posted by ccat

Did anyone notice Casey's attitude yesterday when she was en route to her meeting? She was walking very cocky and confidently. That spoke volumes to e. It seems as though she feels invincible because she probably is confident that she did something to little Caylee that no one can find.

The high-five got me. I would think Baez would have told her to not to things like that when she's in public.