July 2 thru 12/31

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1...239834,00.html

The jury found him guilty of both offenses and 3rd District Judge Royal Hansen set a tentative sentencing date of Aug. 22. Prior to that, officials will conduct a presentence investigation to determine sentencing recommendations.

The murder charge carries a potential sentence of 15 years to life. The judge could impose a sentence ranging from 6 years to life, 10 years to life or 15 years to life on the aggravated sexual assault conviction

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9729470

"They still always say they're being persecuted for polygamy," Chapman said, of reaction to recent crackdowns. "Well, they're being prosecuted for crimes."
FLDS elder and sect spokesman Willie Jessop blasted discussion of the group at a conference focused on cults. He called it stereotyping.
Likewise, Mary Batchelor, co-founder of Principle Voices, an advocacy group for polygamous communities, said some people are unwilling to see the diversity in polygamous groups and only see good or bad.
"We have a legitimate culture and obviously there is variety in how that culture is practiced among the groups," Batchelor said. "Some may view it [polygamy] as a cult. We don't."


It is a cult. imo

[walton]

Originally posted by Imperfect [*]Hi Walton,

Any idea where our thread from 6/30 - ? went? Did you get a chance to read any of it?

Mimi's was the last post on it at 7:39pm, and now it's gone.

There was lots of good stuff on that from yesterday and today.

[/*]

Don't know what happened, where it happened or what happened to it.

Last post I read was the post grammybear made to me.

[evalles]

I had no idea the raid took place at night.

This is what two of the legal aid attorneys said.
I think the link was posted first on the last thread, wherever that went ?


While CPS agents repeatedly insisted (and the media largely regurgitated this insistence) that the agency had no choice but to pull children from the YFZ ranch, that it was acting out of extreme concern for the safety and well-being of those individuals, Chisholm and Balovich found the actions of the state in the ensuing weeks “unbelievably horrible.”

For starters, said Chisholm, the initial investigation by CPS to question YFZ members was instigated at 9 pm, and subjects, including young children, were questioned well into the night, while armed agents (and a tank) surrounded them.

Then, once YFZ children were taken into custody, those under five years old were initially allowed to remain with their mothers, albeit all housed in a sports coliseum in San Angelo (anyone reminded of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina?). Mothers’ mobile phones were confiscated, said Chisholm, and the coliseum entrances/exits were barricaded and guarded by Department of Public Safety (DPS) agents. CPS maintained that it was not preventing mothers from leaving the premises; if a mother left, however, CPS would not allow her back in. “If you had a child in there, what would you do?” asked Chisholm, who represents 4 of the mothers.

Further, after being blocked for an entire day by DPS from access to her clients into the coliseum, Balovich was forced to file a motion for a lawsuit before agents relented

http://www.bigbendgazette.com/blog/_...1/3771392.html

[walton]

I do believe that the questions late into the night is due to the different answers from the leaders and the "parents".

And if memory serves me right, the "shuffling" of kids from one home to the next might have added to the length of time.

jmo

[evalles]

Originally posted by walton [*]I do believe that the questions late into the night is due to the different answers from the leaders and the "parents".

And if memory serves me right, the "shuffling" of kids from one home to the next might have added to the length of time.

jmo [/*]

They started at 9pm, how could it be the parents fault ? It's gonna take hours when over 400 chilgren involved.

It hasn't even been proven that they were shuffling kids around.
It's also just as possible that the parents weren't lying or misleading them and they were confused by the sheer number of children they were dealing with.
Also per the attorney :
it turned out that the CPS list of where each child went was not always accurate

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by evalles [*]

They started at 9pm, how could it be the parents fault ? It's gonna take hours when over 400 chilgren involved.

[/*]

IIRC, from a long interview with Sheriff Doran, the reason for the late start was because they were all stalled off at the gate for hours upon hours, trying to negotiate with the FLDS & hoping to not have to enter by force.

[Mimi428]

Here's the article of the interview with Sheriff Doran -

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700231536,00.html

On the first page, he explains that no one knew beforehand how many children were on the compound nor did they know how many might be removed. Sheriff Doran had been lied to by the FLDS, who had maintained that there were approximately 100 people TOTAL on the compound.

[evalles]

Originally posted by Mimi428 [*]

IIRC, from a long interview with Sheriff Doran, the reason for the late start was because they were all stalled off at the gate for hours upon hours, trying to negotiate with the FLDS & hoping to not have to enter by force. [/*]

That's what he says, isn't there any video coverage ?
So far I haven't seen any of the claims they made against these parents turn out to be true.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Mimi428 [*]

IIRC, from a long interview with Sheriff Doran, the reason for the late start was because they were all stalled off at the gate for hours upon hours, trying to negotiate with the FLDS & hoping to not have to enter by force. [/*]

As Mimi sited: http://deseretnews.com/article/1,514...6,00.html?pg=2

Quoting the article:
Deseret News: The FLDS have said they cooperated from the beginning. From the gate, everything. That they provided everyone that was asked to talk to.

Doran: No, there was a level of accomodation, but I can't say there was a full level of cooperation. They met us at the gate, we laid out what we had going on. We were held up at the gate for about two to three hours. When the leader of the group showed up, that's when the Texas Ranger who was the affiant on the search warrant, presented him with the search warrant and handed it to him and that's when we took Child Protective Services in. They set us up at the school...(CPS) put in a request to see so many girls, but that request was not carried out. It was in small increments through the night and not as requested by Child Protective Services.

edited for spelling, hope I finally got it all correct

[juliekan]

IIRC, the Amish only marry one woman, not several?

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan [*]

As Mimi sited: http://deseretnews.com/article/1,514...6,00.html?pg=2

Quoting the article:
Deseret News: The FLDS have said they cooperated from the beginning. From the gate, everything. That they provided everyone that was asked to talk to.

Doran: No, there was a level of accomodation, but I can't say there was a full level of cooperation. They met us at the gate, we laid out what we had going on. We were held up at the gate for about two to three hours. When the leader of the group showed up, that's when the Texas Ranger who was the affiant on the search warrant, presented him with the search warrant and handed it to him and that's when we took Child Protective Services in. They set us up at the school...(CPS) put in a request to see so many girls, but that request was not carried out. It was in small increments through the night and not as requested by Child Protective Services.

edited for spelling, hope I finally got it all correct [/*]

That is what I remember reading.

[walton]

Originally posted by 1314 [*]I still don't understand what all the hoopla is about. This behaviour has gone on for decades in the regions that border Arizona and Utah. It is no secret nationally or internationally.

Why is this being treated like it's news. It isn't, and most people know it. [/*]

The hoopla might be that there are states out there that are willing to act on calls about abuse within any community. Unlike a few other states. Namely Utah and Arizona.

The hoopla is that even though the abuses were well known in those states the local agencies did not/have not responed accordingly. Check the many links on the link thread.

The hoopla might be that this call involved over 400 children when only 100 plus people were expected to be living at the ranch.

Yup, this is big news. And I still believe that Texas did the best thing that they could under those circumstances. I am still proud of Texas.

[walton]

Originally posted by evalles [*]

That's what he says, isn't there any video coverage ?
So far I haven't seen any of the claims they made against these parents turn out to be true. [/*]

Sheriff Doran wouldn't lie.

[walton]

Originally posted by grammybear [*]I had to take off for a little while due to a crisis with one of our daughters and come back and find the thread deleated.
I heard about the guilty verdict with Dutson Parley. I sure hope the court takes into consideration his background with the FLDS. I have seen cases go either way and even though I do not agree with this boy killing his girlfriend I think there are issues that need to be considered.

The biggest problem that I see is that the FLDS have been lying for so long that authorities cannot take anything they say as gospel. I think this group should have been charged with their criminal behavior along time ago. They say it is religion and I say they are just using religion as an excuse for their sickening behavior. They have committed crines and they should be made to pay for it. The rest of society for the most part pay for their crimes and the FLDS should have to play by the same rules.

I still say that CPS did the what they thought was the right thing to do with what they had to work with. I do not think they realized exactly what they would find when they got there.

I also remember that the sheriffs dept and the social workers had to wait a long time to get in. I though I heard somewhere that the FLDS were shedding documents when the CPS workers came in.

jmo [/*]

grammy have you noticed anything missing from any of the articles about Parley?

Comments from his parents. Nothing stating that the parents were even there. All I've seen is that he might have had one brother there at this last court hearing.

[walton]

Originally posted by evalles [*]

They started at 9pm, how could it be the parents fault ? It's gonna take hours when over 400 chilgren involved.

It hasn't even been proven that they were shuffling kids around.
It's also just as possible that the parents weren't lying or misleading them and they were confused by the sheer number of children they were dealing with.
Also per the attorney :
it turned out that the CPS list of where each child went was not always accurate [/*]

When they were asked about Sara the CPS and LE were told that there were NO Saras that lived there. After asking some of the others they found I think 5 Saras living there.

[juliekan]

[quote]Originally posted by juliekan [*]

As Mimi cited: http://deseretnews.com/article/1,514...6,00.html?pg=2

Quoting the article:
Deseret News: Do you believe the call was a hoax?

Doran: Hard to say. We uncovered a Sarah Barlow that matched that description, and based on their fear of talking to law enforcement, who's to say? I don't have the proof and evidence in front of me to say that she does not exist.

(Doran talks about the investigation into the hoax caller)

Doran: At the same time, when we were told there was no Sarah Barlow out there with that name, we uncovered several and one closely resembling that description. I really don't have a good answer for that.

[juliekan]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008...-green-county/

Sect affiliated company bids on Tom Green County project

[Roux]

Originally posted by Imperfect [*]

Last time I looked, we were behaving ourselves.

[/*]

I was worried and upset when I checked in last night to catch up and found our thread missing. My last post was congratulating Juliekan on her bday so thought maybe my O/T got us banished!

[lotty]

Originally posted by juliekan [*]http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008...-green-county/

Sect affiliated company bids on Tom Green County project [/*]

I wonder if it has anything to do with the link(s) I posted on the link thread that was pulled. IIRC I posted two different newspaper articles about it.
As always JMO/IMO.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Roux [*]

I was worried and upset when I checked in last night to catch up and found our thread missing. My last post was congratulating Juliekan on her bday so thought maybe my O/T got us banished! [/*]

thanks, honey, never got to see it. Nope, I sent CW an e-mail last night and they reported that it was a technical problem. I've also been surfing around this morning and there are at least 4 other threads complaining...and I mean stuff like cooking threads..how can you offend anyone there? Like your cooking can stink on-line We can stop worrying, we didn't tick anybody off. Just lost a lot of info...

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Imperfect
[
One of the disappearing threads was from a poster whose mother passed away. [/*]

I SAW that, how awful!

Originally posted by Imperfect [*]

Thanks for the link, JK.

IMO, there should be a moratorium on awarding contracts to FLDS-affiliated companies until the entire subject of possible criminal conduct has been put to bed.

No state government, nor the federal government, should aid and abet whatever is going on inside that cult until we know what truly IS going on inside that cult. And I think Bruce Wisan should be in the big fat middle of it.

If they want to live on compounds, behind gates, in secrecy so they can break whatever laws of the land they feel like, then they can figure out how to fund that mess on their own, without government assistance. [/*]

At the very least they have to prove they will not use underage laborers!!

[juliekan]

Originally posted by juliekan [*]http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008...-green-county/

Sect affiliated company bids on Tom Green County project [/*]

One company is JNJ Engineering Construction Inc. which is owned by Jacob Nathan Jessop. Couldn't locate who owns Paragon T Contractors, but they are supposedly also out of Hilldale.

Lotty sent me this info. Lotty

http://www.hesperianbeacon.com/051707news.htm

Very interesting story about Samuel Fischer who has relocated to the Texas Panhandle from Hilldale. He has bought 3 homes in the area, one for his family and other for "key people." Mr. Fischer's wife had complications with her"last 6 children" that she gave birth to (out of 13), so when Mr. Fischer happened upon some children who were from a family" torn apart", he adopted all 9 of them. And Lo and Behold, he also adopted their mother!
This article is HIM, talking about his life. No spin allowed.

Thanks Lotty

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Vinnie [*]

At the very least they have to prove they will not use underage laborers!! [/*]

Wouldn't yu think? Then again we know how hard it is to pin them down on things like age, parentage, etc.

[Mimi428]

I'm trying to re-find the links that were on the poofed thread & at least get them on the "Links" thread. May take me awhile, I've got to leave very soon & I imagine by the time I get back this board will be closed for the Holiday weekend.

Walton - I still have not found anything specific on David Mackert, but I will continue to look.

The details that came out in the murder trial of Parley Dutson are horrifying. Read an article on him the other day, written before the guilty verdict.

I hope that during our 4th of July celebrations, we can all take a moment to reflect on the innocent minors, unfortunate enough to be born into families who view them as disposable tickets to glory. If ever there has been a group who have been used as if they are no more than tools - useful only as long as they work for their elders & to be disposed of should they fail to perform - it is the FLDS children.

JMO

[juliekan]

Mimi

[lotty]

Originally posted by juliekan [*]

One company is JNJ Engineering Construction Inc. which is owned by Jacob Nathan Jessop. Couldn't locate who owns Paragon T Contractors, but they are supposedly also out of Hilldale.

Lotty sent me this info. Lotty

http://www.hesperianbeacon.com/051707news.htm

Very interesting story about Samuel Fischer who has relocated to the Texas Panhandle from Hilldale. He has bought 3 homes in the area, one for his family and other for "key people." Mr. Fischer's wife had complications with her"last 6 children" that she gave birth to (out of 13), so when Mr. Fischer happened upon some children who were from a family" torn apart", he adopted all 9 of them. And Lo and Behold, he also adopted their mother!
This article is HIM, talking about his life. No spin allowed.

Thanks Lotty [/*]

You are welcome!
Anyone catch this from the above link? As always JMO/IMO.

"According to Fischer the business specializes in custom cabinet work, however he intends to branch out into the modular line of cabinet making."

[juliekan]

Originally posted by lotty [*]
You are welcome!
Anyone catch this from the above link? As always JMO/IMO.

"According to Fischer the business specializes in custom cabinet work, however he intends to branch out into the modular line of cabinet making." [/*]

thanks, that was my tie-in to the other article and then I noticed I had completely left that out after I got enraged about the rest of the article

[juliekan]

Just a warning in case anyone wants to write down some of these links.....surfing around again and sites are going

POOOOOOF

all over the boards

[evalles]

Originally posted by walton [*]




Sheriff Doran wouldn't lie. [/*]

How exactly do you know that ?

[Roux]

Originally posted by juliekan [*]http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008...-green-county/

Sect affiliated company bids on Tom Green County project [/*]

Parker seems to butt in and make comments on anything and everything FLDS, but I suppose he gets calls from newspaper people asking for a blurb.

What really cracked me up was his comment that the FLDS companies are very familiar with the bidding process on govt projects. Well of course they are -- they've got it down to a T.

And the icing on the cake, he said they have a good track record on compliance. Not according to some of the links I've read.

[walton]

I first heard about Ken Driggs when he was going to be at Warrens trial. I believe he was called a "Mormon expert".

Then I heard Ken Driggs was called an expert on the FLDS.

I just found this: http://www.amazon.com/Evil-Among-Us-.../dp/1560851384



He was on the MSNBC special the other night. I wish I could have heard his take on things. Maybe he knows who has the keys.



Check out the comments:

doesn't stop researching and investigating until he gets to the truth.

Cool.

[walton]

Originally posted by Imperfect [*]Hello!

We're back from the holiday.

Anyone home? [/*]

I missed you guys. Hope everyone had a safe and happy holiday.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Imperfect [*]I missed everyone, too.

We went camping up in the Sierras for a couple days -- came back yesterday. It was very peaceful. No TV, no phone, no computer or internet.

I took the opportunity to read some more of 'Escape' by Carolyn Jessop. I learned Merril married her in order to stop a lawsuit Carolyn's father had initiated against him for some business dealing they had. Also learned that Merril's intent was to ask the then-prophet ('Uncle Roy') for Annette Jessop, Carolyn's younger and more beautiful sister. But he GOT THEIR NAMES CONFUSED, and asked Uncle Roy for Carolyn instead. So they started out their already doomed marriage with neither of them having ever intended to marry the other. What a mess. [/*]

Good Morning Ev1

I was in Texas for a week. I too the book 'Escape' with me to read. It is shocking to read about the way Warren Jeffs took control of the 'cult'.

It is also interesting to read about the 'family dynamics' within a polygamist society. The jealousy and cruelty that go on between the sister wives is astonishing.

[walton]

Originally posted by Imperfect [*]Well as I live and breathe!

We're back! [/*]

Feels good doesn't it?

[witchy1]

Yes!!!!

[LLaFren]

OMG, we are back....

Let the postings begin! I missed you guys!

[witchy1]

Thank you. Not much on Warrens hospital stay, huh? They said that they are watching him but were not for sure if he had been fasting.
Do you know anything else?
TIA

[LLaFren]

The only thing I recall reading (I'll go back and try to find the link) is that he's weak from "fasting"...give me a minute and I'll try refind the article