Judge signs order returning all 440 children

[RachelRose]

Banner on CNN.com right now - 9:30 a.m. June 2. Details to follow.

[evalles]

CNN just said that all 450+ children are going home !!


They can start picking them up at 10 AM.

http://gosanangelo.com/news/2008/ju...ing-home-today/

Here's the signed order.

http://web.gosanangelo.com/pdf/flds0602.pdf

[SavannahStar]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lady]

Originally posted by RachelRose [*]I understand all the provisions except the parenting class. I mean, can you imagine trying to teach that? The entire thing would be a total farce, and waste of time, and the standard curriculum certainly wouldn't cover "and don't marry off your daughters when they are 12".

Everything else, they totally get.

I'm glad I'm not teaching that class! [/*]

No kidding...they don't understand that letting your 12yr old have sex with their "prophet" is wrong.
Their "prophet" is in "prison" and they don't think he did anything wrong.
This is just crazy.

[Katprint]

I was very glad to see the additional provisions about not releasing the children to anybody except their parent/legal guardian, that the parents/legal guardians taking custody are ordered not to interfere in the investigations (for example by instructing the children not to give any information to investigators like they were previously instructing the children), disclosing the addresses where the children will be living, and not removing the children from the state. I agree that the children should not be needlessly traumatized by separation from their parents while the whole child-bride issue is investigated, but it still needs to be fully investigated. Warren Jeffs is in prison, but what happened to his 11, 12 and 13 year old brides that he was kissing in those photos? Where have they been reassigned?

As to the parenting classes: I think some of the parents - particularly the ones who can look at a photo of Jeffs french-kissing a 12 year old girl and say they still think Jeffs is "perfect" - could use some parenting education about inappropriate underage sexualization. I know that the FLDS is not the only place where underage girls get pregnant but it is harmful WHEREVER it is going on, and any parents who approve/fail to protect their children need help improving their parenting skills.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[lady]

As long as there are only the Women/Mothers and Children...I don't have a problem with it, as long as they don't let any of the Men return.

[evalles]

Originally posted by lady [*]As long as there are only the Women/Mothers and Children...I don't have a problem with it, as long as they don't let any of the Men return. [/*]

I didn't see any restrictions on the fathers.
The only ones that wouldn't be able to be there are those that have molested their children and I haven't heard of any cases where that would apply.

[Katprint]

Originally posted by lady [*]As long as there are only the Women/Mothers and Children...I don't have a problem with it, as long as they don't let any of the Men return. [/*]

While I agree that they should not give the underage "wives" (aka victims of statutory rape) back to the perpetrators, I do not understand why a man who fails to protect his children is any worse than a woman who fails to protect her children. Hopefully this is an area where parenting classes will help.

This situation isn't very different from the faith-healing religions where parents fail to obtain necessary medical treatment for children. The children are removed from the parents until the parents agree to follow the law about obtaining necessary medical treatment for their children even if the adults chose not to obtain medical treatment for themselves. But BOTH parents are responsible, not just the father or just the mother.

Katprint

Originally posted by Katprint [*]I was very glad to see the additional provisions about not releasing the children to anybody except their parent/legal guardian, that the parents/legal guardians taking custody are ordered not to interfere in the investigations (for example by instructing the children not to give any information to investigators like they were previously instructing the children), disclosing the addresses where the children will be living, and not removing the children from the state. I agree that the children should not be needlessly traumatized by separation from their parents while the whole child-bride issue is investigated, but it still needs to be fully investigated. Warren Jeffs is in prison, but what happened to his 11, 12 and 13 year old brides that he was kissing in those photos? Where have they been reassigned?

As to the parenting classes: I think some of the parents - particularly the ones who can look at a photo of Jeffs french-kissing a 12 year old girl and say they still think Jeffs is "perfect" - could use some parenting education about inappropriate underage sexualization. I know that the FLDS is not the only place where underage girls get pregnant but it is harmful WHEREVER it is going on, and any parents who approve/fail to protect their children need help improving their parenting skills.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions [/*]

Kat...thanks for the additional information. While I haven't read much on it this morning, this sounds fairly similar to what the judge was requesting on Friday. I agree with the rest of your comments also.

[evalles]

Was this really in their best interests ?

Ruth Edna Fischer was first allowed to see her 2-year-old daughter, from whom she had been separated after the raid on their polygamist ranch in Texas, at the child’s hospital room. The child had been taken there because of severe dehydration and malnutrition, Ms. Fischer said.

“Hannah looked like a little orphan sitting on the couch,” Ms. Fischer said. “Her hair was stringy and she was in a diaper, a pair of dirty socks and a hospital gown.”

The second visit two weeks later at a state office in Angleton, Tex., was worse. The girl would not even meet her mother’s gaze. “It was like she hardly remembered me,” said Ms. Fischer, who has four children in state custody.


http://fldsview.blogspot.com/

[evalles]

Originally posted by RachelRose [*]I think a large portion of these children will develop real anxiety disorders. What a mess for them. [/*]

Or worse. It's gonna be very hard to get back to "normal" after this. As you could see, time pretty much just stood still at the compound while the kids were gone.

Originally posted by evalles [*]Was this really in their best interests ?

Ruth Edna Fischer was first allowed to see her 2-year-old daughter, from whom she had been separated after the raid on their polygamist ranch in Texas, at the child’s hospital room. The child had been taken there because of severe dehydration and malnutrition, Ms. Fischer said.

“Hannah looked like a little orphan sitting on the couch,” Ms. Fischer said. “Her hair was stringy and she was in a diaper, a pair of dirty socks and a hospital gown.”

The second visit two weeks later at a state office in Angleton, Tex., was worse. The girl would not even meet her mother’s gaze. “It was like she hardly remembered me,” said Ms. Fischer, who has four children in state custody.


http://fldsview.blogspot.com/ [/*]

So where's all the pro-CPS people?

[Roux]

Originally posted by zone [*]


So where's all the pro-CPS people? [/*]

I'm not pro anyone or anything, except truth. I'm also not gloating over anything that has happened. But IMO it is not over until the criminal investigation is completed.

[evalles]

Originally posted by zone [*]


So where's all the pro-CPS people? [/*]

Stealing someones child and telling them it's in the child's best interests.

[Roux]

Originally posted by evalles [*]

Stealing someones child and telling them it's in the child's best interests. [/*]

Please, that's not necessary.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by zone [*]


So where's all the pro-CPS people? [/*]

In regards to responding to that BS post on a blog? Or in general? Or what?

It is possible, of course, that a child of that young age could become dehydrated if s/he has contracted an ailment resulting in a high fever, vomiting, diarrhea, etc. Malnutrition, on the other hand, would not have shown up in that short of time.

I've noticed a continuing tendency from the FLDS to speak/write in very melodramatic fashion when describing the wrongs they have suffered. Frankly, FLDS or not, I personally believe that more folks would be willing to listen with less suspicion if they dropped the superflous drama, 'cuz as soon as they bring in the preposterous crap, I then view everything they say with MORE suspicion, not less.

Hospital is full of evil personnel who leave sick & dirty 2-year-old to languish on a couch? (can't figure out what hospital it might be with a couch in a patient's room, but . . . whatever) Nurses, personal care attendants, doctors making combined efforts to deny sick child a clean diaper & clean socks? And make no mistake about it - that is the exact scenario the person who wrote that nonsense was trying to invoke.

Puh-lease.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by evalles [*]

Stealing someones child and telling them it's in the child's best interests. [/*]

S E E K

H E L P

[walton]

Originally posted by zone [*]


So where's all the pro-CPS people? [/*]

Well I am not afraid to admit it. I am pro-CPS.

Did you want to ask me something? But before you ask, you should also know that I am totally against child molesters of any sort, against child abuse and against Domestic Violence.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Imperfect [*]

Perhaps they're avoiding the pro-pedophile thread?

Just sayin'.

[/*]

[evalles]

Originally posted by Imperfect [*]

Perhaps they're avoiding the pro-pedophile thread?

Just sayin'.

[/*]

And your basis for inferring that I condone pedophilia ?

Maybe they're avoiding the anti- civil rights thread.

Please don't ask anyone else to refrain from making personal or rude comments on these threads, as you've just joined the club.

[evalles]

Originally posted by Mimi428 [*]

In regards to responding to that BS post on a blog? Or in general? Or what?

It is possible, of course, that a child of that young age could become dehydrated if s/he has contracted an ailment resulting in a high fever, vomiting, diarrhea, etc. Malnutrition, on the other hand, would not have shown up in that short of time.

I've noticed a continuing tendency from the FLDS to speak/write in very melodramatic fashion when describing the wrongs they have suffered. Frankly, FLDS or not, I personally believe that more folks would be willing to listen with less suspicion if they dropped the superflous drama, 'cuz as soon as they bring in the preposterous crap, I then view everything they say with MORE suspicion, not less.

Hospital is full of evil personnel who leave sick & dirty 2-year-old to languish on a couch? (can't figure out what hospital it might be with a couch in a patient's room, but . . . whatever) Nurses, personal care attendants, doctors making combined efforts to deny sick child a clean diaper & clean socks? And make no mistake about it - that is the exact scenario the person who wrote that nonsense was trying to invoke.

Puh-lease. [/*]

Melodramatic ? LOL Like your use of "superflous drama" or "preposterous crap".
I don't think they were talking about hospital personnel, they wouldn't have been in charge of dressing or grooming the baby.
It would have been the foster parent who was chosen by CPS.

[evalles]

Originally posted by mcannie1965 [*]

Where is the proof they are letting a 12 year old have sex with their "prophet?" Where is the proof a group lives by this belief? Where? TIA

The court let the children go home with their parents! It is a great day in America!

mho [/*]

That's what I've been sayin' .
How can posters continue to spew such lies ?

[evalles]

Originally posted by Mimi428 [*]


S E E K

H E L P [/*]

SEEK

THE

TRUTH

[walton]

When I was a little kid it was thundering out and I asked my parents what makes that noise?

My dad told me it was God shaking the dice cup. My mother told me that it was Gods way of making music.

I asked my parents, where did I get my freckles from? My mother told me that for every freckle I had it was because the angels kissed me. My dad told me it was from running behind a cow on a windy day.

Now... is the glass half empty or is it half full?

The courts sent the kids back with the people that claim the kids as their own. Bad thing good thing?

It just is.

Time will tell and thank goodness that there are some rules that even a culture left behind are now familar.

[evalles]

Originally posted by Texanne [*]Anyone who has had dealings with CPS in Texas can guarantee you one thing.....once a child is in the system...it is IN THE SYSTEM. The parents will be subjected to visits and investigation for some time. It will be harder for the child molesters to get by with it from now on.....unless they move the kids out of state (as they have been known to do). The pedophiles will have to come up with some stunts to continue their molesting the little girls now. And I suspect with all the money these dirty old men have, they will do exactly that. I am fully in support of people'e rights not being violated....but in this case I am more concerned with the right of innocent little girls not being turned into brood mares by a bunch of dirty old men. It is just that simple with me. I knew all along they would eventually be returned. But those of you who think the molesters will get off scot free...think again. They are in the system now. [/*]

The only flaw in this thinking, is that there was no indication that any of the children that were returned were molested.

[Roux]

Originally posted by mcannie1965 [*]

Where is the proof they are letting a 12 year old have sex with their "prophet?" Where is the proof a group lives by this belief? Where? TIA

The court let the children go home with their parents! It is a great day in America!

mho [/*]

the criminal investigation is continuing and if the proof is there, we'll eventually have the truth of the matter

[walton]

Originally posted by evalles [*]

That's what I've been sayin' .
How can posters continue to spew such lies ? [/*]

I truly hope you can back that up with a link.

TIA

[evalles]

Originally posted by Roux [*]

the criminal investigation is continuing and if the proof is there, we'll eventually have the truth of the matter [/*]

Then maybe everyone should wait to find out what the truth is before accusing all these parents of being child molestors or pedophiles.

[evalles]

Originally posted by walton [*]

I truly hope you can back that up with a link.

TIA [/*]

Back what up with a link ?

That there have been no charges filed?
That CPS workers testified in multiple individual hearing that the kids weren't abused ?

Why don't those that call these parents abusers and pedophiles follow that up with a link ?

[walton]

Originally posted by evalles [*]


Back what up with a link ?

That there have been no charges filed?
That CPS workers testified in multiple individual hearing that the kids weren't abused ?

Why don't those that call these parents abusers and pedophiles follow that up with a link ? [/*]

evalles

I was responding to your post to which you were respoding to mcannies post.

[walton]

http://myeldorado.net/

Judge Walther issues emergency order keeping one child, an alleged sexual abuse victim, from returning to the YFZ Ranch.





http://myeldorado.net/graphics/Motio...orcement-1.pdf

[Carol25]

I'm Pro CPS and I'm stil here. I'm just waiting to see if they can find them all to see if they can continue their investigation. I hope the 10-16 year olds don't disappear..

[evalles]

Originally posted by Imperfect [*]

Now Evalles ... that was a little joke. I realize no one here condones pedophilia, for heaven's sake.

It was so absurd it was funny ... get it?



Edited to add: And I'm afraid I can't refrain from making note when someone is being disrespectful. Sorry. [/*]

Then expect the same.
One of my mom's favorite quotes was -- practice what you preach.

[evalles]

Originally posted by Imperfect [*]

mcannie1965,

One of his 'wives' is 12. Her name is Merrianne or something similar. I believe she was taken into custody at the ranch with the other children. That, or she was located and was going to testify had the hearings continued.

There's another of his wives who's 13.

Remember the tiny girls from the pictures? The ones Warren was kissing so intimately? Those were his wives, ages 12 and 13 at the time the photos were taken.

There's the proof, don't you agree? [/*]

If true, it proves that Jeff's committed a crime, not that every parent abused their children.

[datagal]

Ok, I'm a little confused after reading the order about one Therese Jeffs. Everyone seems to assume that Warren Jeffs is her husband. So tell me this, how does her going back to the ranch put her at immediate risk of her alleged perpetrator having access to her? Anyone?

[evalles]

Originally posted by Imperfect [*]

mcannie1965,

One of his 'wives' is 12. Her name is Merrianne or something similar. I believe she was taken into custody at the ranch with the other children. That, or she was located and was going to testify had the hearings continued.

There's another of his wives who's 13.

Remember the tiny girls from the pictures? The ones Warren was kissing so intimately? Those were his wives, ages 12 and 13 at the time the photos were taken.

There's the proof, don't you agree? [/*]

The girl in custody is Teresa Jeffs. If she's a victim of sexual abuse, they shouldn't be using her name.

[walton]

Originally posted by Imperfect [*]

Walton,

Thanks so much for that link.

Thank goodness she doesn't have to go back to the ranch and right back into the hands of her abuser. [/*]

No problem. I truly wish that there wouldn't have been one.

Originally posted by evalles [*]

If true, it proves that Jeff's committed a crime, not that every parent abused their children. [/*]

right....they follow every other "doctrine" that Jeff's puts down as gospel except the one about having sex with underage girls.

I'm sorry...I don't buy it IMO

Originally posted by datagal [*]Ok, I'm a little confused after reading the order about one Therese Jeffs. Everyone seems to assume that Warren Jeffs is her husband. So tell me this, how does her going back to the ranch put her at immediate risk of her alleged perpetrator having access to her? Anyone? [/*]

I believe most everyone there has a last name of Jeffs or Smith IMO

[evalles]

Originally posted by KKKKKKatie [*]

right....they follow every other "doctrine" that Jeff's puts down as gospel except the one about having sex with underage girls.

I'm sorry...I don't buy it IMO [/*]

If it's so rampant, why are they only holding one girl as a victim of sexual abuse, and it appears she might have been a victim of Jeff's.