Daily Thread 5/12, 5/13, 5/14

Moving back over from the Mother's Day board, welcome back!

[KatyDid]

I'm watching Today Show interview two sets of FLDS parents whose children were taken.

The men sound like they have a Canadian accent.

[lotty]

Has anyone seen this yet?

http://www.truthwillprevail.org/

Another FLDS website.

Originally posted by KatyDid [*]I'm watching Today Show interview two sets of FLDS parents whose children were taken.

The men sound like they have a Canadian accent. [/*]

Possible, I believe the FLDS is stating that citizens of Canada and Utah were at the compound and were taken. Identity is still pretty up in the air, though.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Rainkiss [*]

Possible, I believe the FLDS is stating that citizens of Canada and Utah were at the compound and were taken. Identity is still pretty up in the air, though. [/*]

Has Canada been silent about these citizens? Maybe they are saying good riddance.

[warhorse46]

Originally posted by KatyDid [*]

Has Canada been silent about these citizens? Maybe they are saying good riddance. [/*]

I have read that there are some pretty large compounds in Canada. During the Warren Jeffs trial they talked about sending unruly members up there as punishment sometimes.

[warhorse46]

Originally posted by Rainkiss [*]

Possible, I believe the FLDS is stating that citizens of Canada and Utah were at the compound and were taken. Identity is still pretty up in the air, though. [/*]

I think it is going to take months & months to match children to parents, maybe even years if the adults keep setting up road blocks.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Originally posted by warhorse46 [*]


I think it is going to take months & months to match children to parents, maybe even years if the adults keep setting up road blocks. [/*]

ITA..It's like the "Shell Game" only using women, Children, locations and yes even countries to hide their agenda..it is amazing that a handful of men can hold so much power over so many..Baffling outsiders is just what they have done for generations..One only has to look to the likes of Jim Jones and other cults (Sects) throughout the world!

I truly hope they unravel their web of deceit, one layer at a time, like peeling an onion..including all that stench!

LMS

[Lyndawitha"Y]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult




[edit] *.I.T.E.
Steven Alan Hassan, former member of the Unification chruch, and now an exit counselor and mental health counselor, has developed his own model, the BITE Model, to determine how destructive mind control can be understood in terms of four basic components, which form the acronym BITE:

Behavior Control
Information Control
Thought Control
Emotional Control
It is important to understand that destructive mind control can be determined when the overall effect of these four components promotes dependency and obedience to some leader or cause. It is not necessary for every single item on the list to be present. Mind controlled cult members can live in their own apartments, have nine-to-five jobs, be married with children, and still be unable to think for themselves and act independently.[29]

I took a portion from the link I posted about which in a nutshell describes the FLDS in this case at hand..unfortunately the Jeff's and Jessops of this world are not alone in this activity..but they simply must be dealt with and exposed for their devient agenda.
I for one just can't swallow that bitter pill they are trying to force on those outside of their CONTROLLED ENVIORNMENT1

LMS

Originally posted by Lyndawitha"Y [*]

ITA..It's like the "Shell Game" only using women, Children, locations and yes even countries to hide their agenda..it is amazing that a handful of men can hold so much power over so many..Baffling outsiders is just what they have done for generations..One only has to look to the likes of Jim Jones and other cults (Sects) throughout the world!

I truly hope they unravel their web of deceit, one layer at a time, like peeling an onion..including all that stench!

LMS [/*]

Well, DNA testing should start nailing things down. I'm sure most, if not all, of the men who had underage "brides" are already moving to hide from Texas authorities.

Originally posted by KatyDid [*]

Has Canada been silent about these citizens? Maybe they are saying good riddance. [/*]

I haven't heard them say anything... I did find this.

WordWide Religious News Site

A Globe and Mail investigation last week discovered that a 17-year-old girl from Bountiful was among a group of 463 children and teenagers under 18 years old who were apprehended during the Texas raid on April. 3. Authorities say they found at the compound indications of sexual abuse and a pervasive pattern of grooming girls for underage sex with older men.

The Canadian girl's parents have said their daughter was at the Texas compound to visit her grandmother. Former FLDS women said in interviews the sect regularly sends young girls across the border, in both directions, for religious marriages to older men. The men are encouraged in the religion to have at least three wives. Former members say the movement of women across the border is akin to trafficking of young girls for sexual purposes.

[not.another]

Here we go.....


http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/05/12/...ter/index.html

I wonder how Mr. Bush will respond?

[juliekan]

I'm guessing he will refer this to whoever he has tracking this case. I bet he doesn't want to say a word!

[juliekan]

www.rickross.com/reference/yahweh/yahweh42.html

Test case for Texas anti-polygamy laws
Leader of Yahweh sect in Texas arrested for bigamy, breaking child labor laws, and aggravated assault of his 14 yo stepdaughter who he planned to make his wife

[evalles]

Polygamist sect work takes toll on social workers

http://www.statesman.com/news/conten...508stress.html

These workers are used to going into homes where things are really bad and feeling good about moving children from risk and danger," Hansen said. "This situation is completely different. To look at the mothers and children, you would see love and affection and bonds, plus children who appear to be in good physical condition. It was wrenching to pull children away from their mothers."
Secrest says she is troubled by what she sees as misconceptions about the FLDS mothers.

They're not brainwashed, she says. They're not zombies. Each woman has her own personality. Some are funny. Some are quiet. All seem strong and independent.

[evalles]

Texas child welfare attorneys say children were removed from the YFZ Ranch and should not return there because its residents live as one big family and all have the same dangerous belief system.


I thought they were removed for abuse, not their beliefs.

http://trla.wordpress.com/2008/05/10...-kids-at-risk/

Originally posted by evalles [*]Texas child welfare attorneys say children were removed from the YFZ Ranch and should not return there because its residents live as one big family and all have the same dangerous belief system.

I thought they were removed for abuse, not their beliefs.

http://trla.wordpress.com/2008/05/10...-kids-at-risk/ [/*]

also from the same link

The new filing refers the appeals court to testimony from child psychiatrist Bruce Perry, who described an "unhealthy" belief that it's OK to have sex with and marry young women. "This pervasive practice and belief creates an environment that develops people who have a high potential of replicating sexual abuse of young children as a part of their belief system," the court document states.

"Part of the danger to the boys is that their belief system requires that they follow the prophet," it also stated

As for possible temporary restraining orders against men at the ranch, DFPS says that wasn't practical. "How could the department have identified the alleged perpetrator or perpetrators when the evidence demonstrated that the entire male and female population at the YFZ Ranch had been enculturated into the belief that underage marriage was sacrosanct?"

[evalles]

Originally posted by dsmith [*]

also from the same link

The new filing refers the appeals court to testimony from child psychiatrist Bruce Perry, who described an "unhealthy" belief that it's OK to have sex with and marry young women. "This pervasive practice and belief creates an environment that develops people who have a high potential of replicating sexual abuse of young children as a part of their belief system," the court document states.

"Part of the danger to the boys is that their belief system requires that they follow the prophet," it also stated

As for possible temporary restraining orders against men at the ranch, DFPS says that wasn't practical. "How could the department have identified the alleged perpetrator or perpetrators when the evidence demonstrated that the entire male and female population at the YFZ Ranch had been enculturated into the belief that underage marriage was sacrosanct?" [/*]

Is this the same expert witness who said he obtained his knowlege of the FLDS from the media ?

What evidence ? The opinions of the DFPS ?

[evalles]

This is who is in charge of the FLDS kids. I certainly don't feel better.


Salt Lake Tribune reports that Carey Cockerell, commissioner of TX Department of Family and Protective Services, claimed FLDS ‘child abuse’ as he testified to the TX Senate Committee on Health and Human Services

Existing Sexual Abuse Suit Pending Against Commissioner Cockerell of TX DFPS


http://www.flds.ws/tag/babies/

Children claim repeated sex abuse
They were punished for reporting the abuse.

Besides administrators at Nixon and HHS officials in Washington and South Texas, the suit accuses state officials of negligence. Specifically named are Carey Cockerell, Dianna Spiser and Joyce James, the top bosses at the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/met...e.3689173.html

Originally posted by evalles [*]

Is this the same expert witness who said he obtained his knowlege of the FLDS from the media ?

What evidence ? The opinions of the DFPS ? [/*]

here is some info on Dr Perry so go to this link and read

http://www.childtrauma.org/CTAMATERI...xual_abuse.asp

the only problem with leaving the children with the mother/wife is that they also have the same belief as the men

no matter how you slice it, it is still child abuse

[Details]

Originally posted by evalles [*]Texas child welfare attorneys say children were removed from the YFZ Ranch and should not return there because its residents live as one big family and all have the same dangerous belief system.


I thought they were removed for abuse, not their beliefs.

http://trla.wordpress.com/2008/05/10...-kids-at-risk/ [/*]

The dangerous belief is that child abuse is OK. So, in this case, the belief and the abuse are the exact same thing.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Originally posted by Details [*]The dangerous belief is that child abuse is OK. So, in this case, the belief and the abuse are the exact same thing. [/*]

There you go..ITA..What ever happened to the therories of :
"Better Safe than Sorry"..

and for those out there who want to quote " Innocent until proven guilty"..I'll just say..no one is at this point charged with anything..only suspect!

LMS

[evalles]

[quote]Originally posted by Details [*]The dangerous belief is that child abuse is OK. So, in this case, the belief and the abuse are the exact same thing. [/*][/QUOTE


Funny that witnesses that were actually with the families disagree.


They weren't abused but the parents believe in abuse ??
Doesn't make sense.
They're not even providing evidence of abuse.
So it's not the same thing.

[evalles]

Originally posted by dsmith [*]

here is some info on Dr Perry so go to this link and read

http://www.childtrauma.org/CTAMATERI...xual_abuse.asp

the only problem with leaving the children with the mother/wife is that they also have the same belief as the men

no matter how you slice it, it is still child abuse [/*]

And yet, the CPS physician testified that the children were healthy and well taken care of.
I'll take medical science over psycho science any day.

[Details]

Evidence of abuse has been provided - physical evidence, documentation from the cult of the abuse, statements from the children and cult members, testimony in court cases - the evidence of the abuse has been thouroughly documented.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz [*]

Unless it involves the need for vaccinations, apparently. [/*]

That cracked me up GGW!

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9235389

The White House has not received a letter from those seeking help in the aftermath of the polygamous sect raid in Texas despite comments by an FLDS member that he gave one to "presidential staffers" at Bush's Crawford ranch.




I can not stop smiling.

[Details]

And I'm sure the White House couldn't care less that the letter didn't reach them. Especially not from pedophile supporting wedding crashers.

Originally posted by walton [*]http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9235389

The White House has not received a letter from those seeking help in the aftermath of the polygamous sect raid in Texas despite comments by an FLDS member that he gave one to "presidential staffers" at Bush's Crawford ranch.




I can not stop smiling. [/*]

Gotta wonder if he even was there, or just posted the thing on the internet, made a press statement, and never even left home.

[Details]

I think that's quite likely. Pretend you got to talk to a presidential staffer or such - because no way are you going to get even close to that wedding in real life.

[walton]

Either way it works.

Originally posted by Details [*]I think that's quite likely. Pretend you got to talk to a presidential staffer or such - because no way are you going to get even close to that wedding in real life. [/*]

Yah, the article mentioned that reporters with White House clearance and credentials weren't even allowed near the place. I could buy maybe he got close enough to get stopped, and handed the letter over, but the article also says that the Secret Service wouldn't accept it... And, with all the anthrax scares, I doubt I'd want to take something like that from random guys driving around, either.

[walton]

With the letter all over the internet, newspapers, radio and tv, you would think that our President would 1. make a comment or 2. Have someone else make a comment on the Biggest Raid since Waco. Something of which he has not done since this started.

How many other stories involve govt. officials moving in on a Ranch to pull out over 500 people?

The Texas Rangers? Big Iron Machines that protect 12 people? Scores of LE? Media? Something that involves 3 states maybe 3 countries?


Everyone has noticed but the White House and those running for office.


Now watch the shuffle.

Originally posted by walton [*]With the letter all over the internet, newspapers, radio and tv, you would think that our President would 1. make a comment or 2. Have someone else make a comment on the Biggest Raid since Waco. Something of which he has not done since this started.

How many other stories involve govt. officials moving in on a Ranch to pull out over 500 people?

The Texas Rangers? Big Iron Machines that protect 12 people? Scores of LE? Media? Something that involves 3 states maybe 3 countries?


Everyone has noticed but the White House and those running for office.


Now watch the shuffle. [/*]

Too touchy an issue. If any of the candidates touch this one, they'll get blasted right out of the election. If you think CPS did the right thing, you're anti-family rights. If you think they were wrong, you're condoning child molestation. Unless any of them have a better idea on how it could have been handled, you won't hear it discussed unless it's lobbed at them out of left field at some Q&A session. (And, by the way, I asked not too long ago on the Mother's Day Board thread for anybody who had a problem with the way CPS handled the situation for a better idea on how it COULD have been handled. In case anybody missed it, I'll repeat it here, 'cause I still haven't heard an answer to that one.)

The White House DID comment. I believe what that article is stating is, essentially, "kindly keep your lies to yourself." If the President had anything else to say, he'd've said it, but he's in the same position as the candidates. His approval ratings are lower than a snake's belly as it is, he does NOT want to step in this one.

[evalles]

Originally posted by Details [*]Evidence of abuse has been provided - physical evidence, documentation from the cult of the abuse, statements from the children and cult members, testimony in court cases - the evidence of the abuse has been thouroughly documented. [/*]

I haven't seen any evidence. Please show me evidence, all have I"ve seen are statements made by disgruntled ex-members.

[juliekan]

http://www.foxnews.com/studiob/index.html

Dockstader Interview on Shepard Smith this afternoon.

The family states they have a 23 yo daughter that is being held by CPS even though she has a Utah DL and birth cert. They say that CPS states she is 16 years old. Willie Jessop (writer of all the letters to the state, pres etc.) They deny that underage marriage has happened at all, because underage marriage has to lack parental consent. When asked didn't Warren Jessop have "children with children" Willie again states that the girl is never underage with parental consent....Then Willie says at the end of the converstation that the girl in question is 29? Shepard says that after the interview, the groups lawyer states that if this interview is aired, no Fox affiliate will get any interview. This is after they invited him out to the compound for an interview.

So if you know Shep, the minute he was threatened, he aired the interview...Questions, why does the child in question only have Utah IDs? (Fake) Why did Willie Jessop get so angry during the interview and then have his lawyer threaten him?

Final note: Willie J said he didn't like Shep treating them like perverts. Shep actually was very polite and caring with the parents. Watch and see.

[evalles]

Originally posted by juliekan [*]http://www.foxnews.com/studiob/index.html

Dockstader Interview on Shepard Smith this afternoon.

The family states they have a 23 yo daughter that is being held by CPS even though she has a Utah DL and birth cert. They say that CPS states she is 16 years old. Willie Jessop (writer of all the letters to the state, pres etc.) They deny that underage marriage has happened at all, because underage marriage has to lack parental consent. When asked didn't Warren Jessop have "children with children" Willie again states that the girl is never underage with parental consent....Then Willie says at the end of the converstation that the girl in question is 29? Shepard says that after the interview, the groups lawyer states that if this interview is aired, no Fox affiliate will get any interview. This is after they invited him out to the compound for an interview.

So if you know Shep, the minute he was threatened, he aired the interview...Questions, why does the child in question only have Utah IDs? (Fake) Why did Willie Jessop get so angry during the interview and then have his lawyer threaten him?

Final note: Willie J said he didn't like Shep treating them like perverts. Shep actually was very polite and caring with the parents. Watch and see. [/*]

He was compassionate to the parents, the kids aren't together and it's going to make visits very difficult. He understood why they were upset.
What made Willie Jessop mad, I think is when Shep said he believed the state. It was more or less calling them liars.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by juliekan [*]http://www.foxnews.com/studiob/index.html

Dockstader Interview on Shepard Smith this afternoon.

The family states they have a 23 yo daughter that is being held by CPS even though she has a Utah DL and birth cert. They say that CPS states she is 16 years old. Willie Jessop (writer of all the letters to the state, pres etc.) They deny that underage marriage has happened at all, because underage marriage has to lack parental consent. When asked didn't Warren Jessop have "children with children" Willie again states that the girl is never underage with parental consent....Then Willie says at the end of the converstation that the girl in question is 29? Shepard says that after the interview, the groups lawyer states that if this interview is aired, no Fox affiliate will get any interview. This is after they invited him out to the compound for an interview.

So if you know Shep, the minute he was threatened, he aired the interview...Questions, why does the child in question only have Utah IDs? (Fake) Why did Willie Jessop get so angry during the interview and then have his lawyer threaten him?

Final note: Willie J said he didn't like Shep treating them like perverts. Shep actually was very polite and caring with the parents. Watch and see. [/*]

So they still think they are in charge!

FCS~~WillieJ can't even keep his lies straight. The young woman goes from age 23 to age 29 in one interview setting.

LOL!!! They threaten Shep and Fox News like Fox has something to lose. These people are so full of bulhooey.

Jessop got angry because Shep was asking the hard questions. What do liars do when they get asked questions they can't answer with a spontaneous lie...

they get angry!

[juliekan]

Originally posted by evalles [*]

He was compassionate to the parents, the kids aren't together and it's going to make visits very difficult. He understood why they were upset.
What made Willie Jessop mad, I think is when Shep said he believed the state. It was more or less calling them liars. [/*]

What did you think of Willie Jessop? I expected an older, soft spoken, perhaps stern man...not this young fireball.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by KatyDid [*]

So they still think they are in charge!

FCS~~WillieJ can't even keep his lies straight. The young woman goes from age 23 to age 29 in one interview setting.

LOL!!! They threaten Shep and Fox News like Fox has something to lose. These people are so full of bulhooey.

Jessop got angry because Shep was asking the hard questions. What do liars do when they get asked questions they can't answer with a spontaneous lie...

they get angry! [/*]

Did they not want the interview aired because he claimed marriage cannot be illegal without parental consent or because he screwed up half the facts?