Daily Thread 5/7 thru 11

[LLaFren]

Morning all {yawn},

I see the Attorney General's office will now be involved.

May 6, 2008, 3:27PM
Texas AG office to prosecute polygamist sect cases


By TERRI LANGFORD
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle

A judge at the center of the largest custody battle in U.S. history has approved a request to bring in the Texas Attorney General's office to prosecute any future criminal charges in the case.


I wonder how the DNA testing is going? Anybody heard?

I'd imagine that a lot will depend on what criminal charges are filed, and against whom. I'd hope the men who they can prove had sex with underage girls wind up in jail... Of course, that'll put the mothers of their children right back on welfare.

spirit07
Member
Registered: Aug 2007
Location:
Posts: 418

Re: Re: Re: Daily Thread 05/06
quote:
Originally posted by xray ra [*]

OK so he says he has ONE legal wife and two other "spiritual wifes. He has at least 5 illegitemate children.(at least according to the law). I wonder if the "spiritual wife/mother" collects welfare for those children?

People want to know????

How the he!! could he possible support 3 wives and 13 children without support from the state and federal government.

Most regular people have a hard enough time supporting a wife and two kids unless the wife works.

Just sayin [/*]

I'd like to know also how he supports them.

I believe these folks should have to answer these tough questions if they are allowed air time/news time.

I know I said this before, but I also do not believe they should be allowed to speak out if they don't accurately identify who

they are and who all is in their immediate family.

Not sure if this guy did, but I am a bit tired

of interviews where they only identify themselves by first names
(mostly or names that no one can find on the list of who was at that ranch or names that could be more than one person, etc.).

__________________
These are my opinions only
IMO...YES, they should answer these questions and more.

I found this Link very interesting.
Don't miss reading the comments/posts at the bottom of the article, very informative...
sorry I don't know how to link it! please help with this!.....imo

"Texas rep calls for probe of FLDS firm receiving defense contracts".

[BorderCollieMom]

Originally posted by Devotion [*]I found this Link very interesting.
Don't miss reading the comments/posts at the bottom of the article, very informative...
sorry I don't know how to link it! please help with this!.....imo

"Texas rep calls for probe of FLDS firm receiving defense contracts". [/*]

http://gosanangelo.com/news/2008/may...irm-receiving/

[KatyDid]

I just heard an ad for today's Oprah show. They mentioned something about the polygamist compound raid. I went to her site, but there isn't anything there about it being on today's show.



So maybe she is covering it today.

So, assuming all children were tested, just 135 adults have been tested?

[lotty]

Ok, so I sent an e-mail to the ACLU, asking why they are not defending the rights of the children. I told them plenty of people are willing to defend the rights of the parents. No one is allowing any choices for the children. I am not a fan of the ACLU, but I thought it was a legitimate question. I'm sure that due to the high volume of e-mails they receive daily, my e-mail will go unanswered. They will represent NAMBLA in MA over first amendment rights. No one will help these children receive an adequate education, or choices that they should be free to make about their adult lives.

SARCASM...I'm sure a 14 or 15 or 16 yo girl getting married off and having kids before she is 18 yo has no other hopes or aspirations.

As always JMO/IMO

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz [*]

She's doing some sort of 'week in review' show today, according to previews. Have NO idea what that's about. One of the topics to be covered is the FLDS compound raid, which even confuses me further, since I tend to keep up with Oprah's show topics, and I don't recall her having doing a show on the compound to be 'reviewed.'

I'm corn-fused. [/*]

Hmmm, I am confused too. I heard it as I was walking into the den this morning, but missed the whole ad spot. The words polygamist compound raid caught my attention.

I was hoping she would be asking some of the 'real' questions we have been asking here on the board.

Originally posted by lotty [*]Ok, so I sent an e-mail to the ACLU, asking why they are not defending the rights of the children. I told them plenty of people are willing to defend the rights of the parents. No one is allowing any choices for the children. I am not a fan of the ACLU, but I thought it was a legitimate question. I'm sure that due to the high volume of e-mails they receive daily, my e-mail will go unanswered. They will represent NAMBLA in MA over first amendment rights. No one will help these children receive an adequate education, or choices that they should be free to make about their adult lives.

SARCASM...I'm sure a 14 or 15 or 16 yo girl getting married off and having kids before she is 18 yo has no other hopes or aspirations.

As always JMO/IMO [/*]

Great! Please let us know if they respond, and if they do, what they have to say for themselves. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to know!

[juliekan]

Originally posted by KatyDid [*]

Hmmm, I am confused too. I heard it as I was walking into the den this morning, but missed the whole ad spot. The words polygamist compound raid caught my attention.

I was hoping she would be asking some of the 'real' questions we have been asking here on the board. [/*]

the promo I heard make it sound like audience members would be part of the discussion? Maybe giving their opinion?

[juliekan]

Originally posted by AnnieBean [*]

I wonder that myself. I have been out of touch with the news for about 3 days, don't you hate it when that happens. Spending more time out in the yard and out shopping . I haven't heard anything about the DNA testing. I wonder what they will do once they have kids and moms sorted out, then what? And are the welfare payments going to continue? How will the women survive, or are they going to go right back to those men if they are 'of age'. Will they seperate families, at risk kids don't go back, girls and teens- and the rest can? It will be interesting to see how this is handled. jmo. Hope it sets a precident and they follow suit in Utah and other states where this is going on unchecked. Send them all to Mexico. Maybe that will counterbalance the influx of mexican coming over the border to here. They say they want to live a simple lifestyle, they can live real simple in mexico. Oh no, they won't go there. No welfare.

jmo

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...y/5747910.html

The people in YFZ did NOT receive welfare.

AB [/*]

Also, as the article pointed out (great find, Julie!), Texas is pretty live-and-let-live about many things... But, if they suddenly noticed a serious drain on resources, I imagine they'd react. (Wasn't Texas the state that had the "needed killin' law" I heard about awhile back?)

[juliekan]

Jim Kirkpatrick of Houston Tx demands an apology from the state of Utah

www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_9162130

[xray ra]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz [*]I think it's because they've figured out other ways to support themselves (government contracts, for one), and the more they can stay under the government's radar in terms of ages, family ties, addresses, last names, etc., the happier they are. [/*]

Good afternoon GGW

I wonder how the taxpayers in Arizona, Utah, Colorado, and elsewhere are feeling right about now?

Their tax dollars have been funneled to Texas!!!!

Other members of FDLS collect public assistance in those states and contribute 10% (at least) to the nationwide FDLS leadership.
They send these contributions to Texas.
Then the members of the YFZ ranch can pay for their computers, building materials, cars, farm equipment, food, cloth (to make those great dresses), pay electric, fuel, cell,ect bills.

Sound about right?

FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!!!!

Of course: jmo, imo

I bet there are some politicians in Utah who are hoping & praying that the FLDS gets crushed, regardless of the mealy-mouthed statements they've been making. Even though the vast majority of Utahns are not polygamists, many are sympathetic with their fundamentalist brethren. The politicians who tried to crack down on the polygamists often found themselves out of office next election. Even though the Short Creek raid was carried out by Arizona, Utah learned its lesson: go soft on the polygamists.

Even though they may be suffering now, the best thing that ever happened to the women and children of the Jeffs faction was moving to Texas and getting "liberated" by the state.

As Texas continues to investigate and prosecute, the Mormons back in Utah may back off their politicians and let them enforce the laws. Let's hope.

[lotty]

Originally posted by Rainkiss [*]

Great! Please let us know if they respond, and if they do, what they have to say for themselves. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to know! [/*]

At least I know they received it. My son said "If they don't answer, start e-mailing every day." I think I just might! I just don't know how long to wait for an answer.

Originally posted by lotty [*]
At least I know they received it. My son said "If they don't answer, start e-mailing every day." I think I just might! I just don't know how long to wait for an answer. [/*]

Mmm... Business etiquette is to allow 24 hours for a response to an e-mail. Every day sounds about right... Forward your original mail (if you kept a copy) and add another note asking for a response.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by lotty [*]
At least I know they received it. My son said "If they don't answer, start e-mailing every day." I think I just might! I just don't know how long to wait for an answer. [/*]

With attorneys, you might allow a 3 day time to reply. They aren't in their office(s) every day. I am dealing with an attorney now regardng my mother's estate. It usually takes him 3 days to return my calls or answer an email. Some days I get lucky and he answers right away.

[xray ra]

Originally posted by Rainkiss [*]

Mmm... Business etiquette is to allow 24 hours for a response to an e-mail. Every day sounds about right... Forward your original mail (if you kept a copy) and add another note asking for a response. [/*]

I'm not sure that the response from the ACLU will be favorable to the children.
I have found that the cases where the ACLU do get involved, the situation gets worse, not better.

I think that they were called in on behalf of the "mothers". Now, until maternity can be proved by DNA, the ACLU cannot take a stand.

IMO, that is why we haven't heard from them. The "mothers" don't have the necessary documents. And when they do, the documents are tied to births of children to underage females!!!!

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by xray ra [*]

I'm not sure that the response from the ACLU will be favorable to the children.
I have found that the cases where the ACLU do get involved, the situation gets worse, not better.

I think that they were called in on behalf of the "mothers". Now, until maternity can be proved by DNA, the ACLU cannot take a stand.

IMO, that is why we haven't heard from them. The "mothers" don't have the necessary documents. And when they do, the documents are tied to births of children to underage females!!!!

[/*]

I wonder if the mothers are trying to get away with lying to their attorneys.

Wouldn't you love to be a fly on that wall?

[lotty]

Originally posted by xray ra [*]

I'm not sure that the response from the ACLU will be favorable to the children.
I have found that the cases where the ACLU do get involved, the situation gets worse, not better.

I think that they were called in on behalf of the "mothers". Now, until maternity can be proved by DNA, the ACLU cannot take a stand.

IMO, that is why we haven't heard from them. The "mothers" don't have the necessary documents. And when they do, the documents are tied to births of children to underage females!!!!

[/*]

The point I'm trying to make to the ACLU, is, of all the rights being "trampled" on, the children are the worst off. It is one thing to make choices as an adult, even if you are ignorant...because you can always find a way to learn. I basically told them, that these children are forced (born) into oppression. Of anyone in the FLDS, the children are forced to be silent, and never taught that they have options, rights, and freedoms. They are defenseless, they have less voice than the mothers.
BTW Thank goodness for Texas! The only people willing to give the children a voice...or to help them find their voices!

[xray ra]

Originally posted by lotty [*]

The point I'm trying to make to the ACLU, is, of all the rights being "trampled" on, the children are the worst off. It is one thing to make choices as an adult, even if you are ignorant...because you can always find a way to learn. I basically told them, that these children are forced (born) into oppression. Of anyone in the FLDS, the children are forced to be silent, and never taught that they have options, rights, and freedoms. They are defenseless, they have less voice than the mothers.
BTW Thank goodness for Texas! The only people willing to give the children a voice...or to help them find their voices! [/*]

Lotty, I am behind you 100%!!!!

I, too, hope that someone in the ACLU will see the obvious.

Thankfully, I have not seen anywhere that they are coming to defense of the men in this cult.

[xray ra]

Originally posted by KatyDid [*]

I wonder if the mothers are trying to get away with lying to their attorneys.

Wouldn't you love to be a fly on that wall? [/*]

Lying for the Lord!!
I can't believe it, (she says sarcastically)

[juliekan]

Oprah's on, supposed to address the FLDS issue along with others. Audience supposed to have their say today.

[xray ra]

Originally posted by juliekan [*]Oprah's on, supposed to address the FLDS issue along with others. Audience supposed to have their say today. [/*]

Darn, I missed it. Was watching Ellen!!!! Take good notes, Julie

[spydernweb2006]

Originally posted by lotty [*]Ok, so I sent an e-mail to the ACLU, asking why they are not defending the rights of the children. I told them plenty of people are willing to defend the rights of the parents. No one is allowing any choices for the children. I am not a fan of the ACLU, but I thought it was a legitimate question. I'm sure that due to the high volume of e-mails they receive daily, my e-mail will go unanswered. They will represent NAMBLA in MA over first amendment rights. No one will help these children receive an adequate education, or choices that they should be free to make about their adult lives.

SARCASM...I'm sure a 14 or 15 or 16 yo girl getting married off and having kids before she is 18 yo has no other hopes or aspirations.

As always JMO/IMO [/*]

I just got home from work and saw your post. I and 9 Other Mom's found the reason Political Figures/Groups hate to get involved when we lobbied Congress for the rights of kids in Daycare. The reason for non involement:

KIDS DONT VOTE.

Its also combined with the FDLS kids Parent's breaking the Bigamy and Lord knows what other laws. Noone is gonna publically step forward and have fingers pointed back at them. Hell I am PROUD Texas even did anything considering UT and AZ turning blind eyes to the issues for so long.

JMHO

Hugs,

Spyder

[juliekan]

WOW never thought of that!

[juliekan]

On Oprah:
Starts with "a polygamist mother who lives in the suburbs and drives a minivan answers questions." A second wife in Salt Lake City is on (her twin sister is also married to the man), and says she is concerned about the psychological trauma to the kids. Should have done a "case by case" assessment only. But then states "Very real possibility of abuse." Then Oprah states her producers told her the lady had said LE should have removed all the men, not the women and children. The woman says oh no, "should have investigated the men first."
Then there is David Mattingly from CNN news who ran through the spiel of facts that we online already know. Don't know who this guy is but he did a good job of reporting facts. Oprah was nodding big when he talked about having to remove all the kids when there is a complaint and that documents back up the underage bearing of children. He also says he is amazed at the scope of all this. "Everything is big in Texas" he says and this is just one of the things...

Next Wednesday on Oprah....full show about FLDS in Texas.

How bout some of our expert posters e-mail Oprah with info, to make sure the show is really great?

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by juliekan [*]On Oprah:
Starts with "a polygamist mother who lives in the suburbs and drives a minivan answers questions." A second wife in Salt Lake City is on (her twin sister is also married to the man), and says she is concerned about the psychological trauma to the kids. Should have done a "case by case" assessment only. But then states "Very real possibility of abuse." Then Oprah states her producers told her the lady had said LE should have removed all the men, not the women and children. The woman says oh no, "should have investigated the men first."
Then there is David Mattingly from CNN news who ran through the spiel of facts that we online already know. Don't know who this guy is but he did a good job of reporting facts. Oprah was nodding big when he talked about having to remove all the kids when there is a complaint and that documents back up the underage bearing of children. He also says he is amazed at the scope of all this. "Everything is big in Texas" he says and this is just one of the things...

Next Wednesday on Oprah....full show about FLDS in Texas.

How bout some of our expert posters e-mail Oprah with info, to make sure the show is really great? [/*]

THANKS juliekan for the recap of the show.

I had a doc appointment and missed it.

Marking my calendar for next Wednesday to watch Oprah.

[Topher]

Aside from the child abuse and bigamy, another thing which has not been addressed: There are men with up to twenty one wives, and countless children who received welfare and food stamps. From what I have read, the sect has various successful business enterprises. But, the men did not use the money from those businesses for the care of the wives or children, who got their money and food stamps from the government. So, I can only conclude that this is welfare fraud on a massive scale. When the DNA tests start identifying fathers, and mothers of the children, will there be charges of welfare fraud? Feedback?

Topher

[juliekan]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...y/5747910.html

I found the story but couldn't get my site to work. This is courtesy of KatyDid

[juliekan]

Nancy Grace is supposed to have an update tonight....where is everybody? I haven't had a chance at the computer lately and have it tonight...wish you were here.

[lotty]

Hi Julie.

[Topher]

Originally posted by juliekan [*]http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...y/5747910.html

I found the story but couldn't get my site to work. This is courtesy of KatyDid [/*]

---------------------------------------------------

I read the article. Okay, so if only 203 get food stamps, and only 63 are enrolled in the Children's Health Insurance program, that is still fraud, because according to the article there is a real estate trust worth from 10 to 15 million dollars, 10 good sized companies, a large farm, and uncounted construction firms and small businesses. They should not be taking anything from the welfare system. Furthermore, they should have to pay the enormous costs incurred by the state, including the DNA testing because they have obstructed justice, by withholding the necessary information . If the article is correct about the high numbers receiving public assistance in the Hildale and Colorado City in 2002, the federal and state governments should be investigating to see if the numbers are still that high (66% federal assistance and 78% food stamps). If THEY are still "Bleeding the Beast," and if the same abusive practices are going on in those communities as well. How do you feel about your tax dollars paying for cult harems in the name of god? Do not misunderstand me. The abuse of the children is first and foremost on my mind. A question: During a Nancy Grace show, it was said that many male children and babies are removed from the compound. When a community is based on males having many wives, then most male children are not wanted. Does anyone know what becomes of the unwanted male children and babies who are removed from the compound's population? I am hoping that it is not a practice to kill male babies when there are too many in relation to the number of female baby births.

Topher

[lotty]

<respectfully snipped for length>

Originally posted by Topher [*]
---------------------------------------------------

A question: During a Nancy Grace show, it was said that many male children and babies are removed from the compound. When a community is based on males having many wives, then most male children are not wanted. Does anyone know what becomes of the unwanted male children and babies who are removed from the compound's population? I am hoping that it is not a practice to kill male babies when there are too many in relation to the number of female baby births.

Topher [/*]

There is a thread here about the "Lost Boys"... lot's of information. Generally the boys are given the boot, out of the community and religion, in their teen years...then they lose their parents, siblings, and friends, sometimes much later in life...then they lose their wives and children.

[evalles]

Originally posted by Topher [*]
---------------------------------------------------

I read the article. Okay, so if only 203 get food stamps, and only 63 are enrolled in the Children's Health Insurance program, that is still fraud, because according to the article there is a real estate trust worth from 10 to 15 million dollars, 10 good sized companies, a large farm, and uncounted construction firms and small businesses. They should not be taking anything from the welfare system. Furthermore, they should have to pay the enormous costs incurred by the state, including the DNA testing because they have obstructed justice, by withholding the necessary information . If the article is correct about the high numbers receiving public assistance in the Hildale and Colorado City in 2002, the federal and state governments should be investigating to see if the numbers are still that high (66% federal assistance and 78% food stamps). If THEY are still "Bleeding the Beast," and if the same abusive practices are going on in those communities as well. How do you feel about your tax dollars paying for cult harems in the name of god? Do not misunderstand me. The abuse of the children is first and foremost on my mind. A question: During a Nancy Grace show, it was said that many male children and babies are removed from the compound. When a community is based on males having many wives, then most male children are not wanted. Does anyone know what becomes of the unwanted male children and babies who are removed from the compound's population? I am hoping that it is not a practice to kill male babies when there are too many in relation to the number of female baby births.

Topher [/*]

The article states that there were 212 receiving food stamps before the FLDS ever moved there. There's less now.

They aren't the ones that are receiving food stamps.

There have been numerous posts stating they were receiving welfare based on nothing but rumors & speculation.
Here's one so-called "fact" that has been disproven.

[lotty]

Has anyone else seen this?

http://yearningforzion.com/

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by lotty [*] Has anyone else seen this?

http://yearningforzion.com/ [/*]

Dang~no I hadn't seen it.

What are they saying, there wasn't probable cause? Maybe they should read the law and the latest ruling by the Supreme Court.

These people get on my last nerve.

[lotty]

Originally posted by KatyDid [*]

Dang~no I hadn't seen it.

What are they saying, there wasn't probable cause? Maybe they should read the law and the latest ruling by the Supreme Court.

These people get on my last nerve. [/*]

ITA! Funny how people have selective reading skills.

And the website is for sale...