FLDS teen gives birth to boy as state officials stand by

[mood*ring]

Teen mother is under 18.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/200...D90BRNKG0.html

the teen mother will remain with her newborn son in a state foster care facility.

[LLaFren]

Where does the mother say the girl is 18? I missed that part, help!

oops, found it here:

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9103069

Originally posted by DixieDarling [*]I hope they don't rip this young mother and her child apart. If the girl IS under 18 (her mother says she is 18), then I think they should find a foster home for both her and her child to be together. I don't think there should be a custody hearing. The child is hers. He should remain with his mother. [/*]

Last I heard, the plan was to keep them together. It was stated that a child born to a ward of the state automatically becomes a ward of the state, as well.

I'm very curious about how the girl's mother knew she went into labor.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/

Sect's doctor mum about ranch clinic
Here's what's known about Dr. Lloyd H. Barlow:

He's licensed to practice medicine in Utah, in Arizona and - since June 2005 - in Texas.
He has no disciplinary actions against him in the states in which he's licensed to practice.
He operates a medical clinic at the YFZ Ranch of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints.

Barlow operates a medical clinic there, according to an affidavit submitted by Texas Ranger Sgt. Leslie Brooks Long.

"It is nothing more than what you would expect in a rural town," Barlow said.
A physician has a heightened duty to report suspected child abuse under Texas law, he said. Professionals must report it to authorities within 48 hours.

Anyone who suspects but doesn't report child abuse can be held liable for a Class * misdemeanor, according to the Department of Family and Protective Services. A Class * misdemeanor is punishable by up to 180 days in jail and a fine up to $2,000.

wonder why he has never reported any abuse of these young women prob ally enjoyed all the hoopla he was given when a girl was born

[tisamystery]

The new mother already has a 16 month old child.

[Roux]

Catching up on last night's thread, I thought that essiemadge made a very good point -- if it is true that this new mother has a monogamous relationship with her husband who is 22, why hasn't the FLDS PR people had him in front of the cameras? Perfect opportunity to display one of their self-described wholesome, happy families.

Oh, I know. Cause it isn't true!

Originally posted by Roux [*]Catching up on last night's thread, I thought that essiemadge made a very good point -- if it is true that this new mother has a monogamous relationship with her husband who is 22, why hasn't the FLDS PR people had him in front of the cameras? Perfect opportunity to display one of their self-described wholesome, happy families.

Oh, I know. Cause it isn't true! [/*]

Or because that 16 month old child was conceived before the girl was of legal age. Or because there was no actual legal marriage license issued.

I'll allow that it's possible that there are young men who haven't "earned" their second or third wives, yet.

[Freebird]

Originally posted by DixieDarling [*]I hope they don't rip this young mother and her child apart. If the girl IS under 18 (her mother says she is 18), then I think they should find a foster home for both her and her child to be together. I don't think there should be a custody hearing. The child is hers. He should remain with his mother. [/*]

Yet it's ok to rip the kids from the older mothers?

[Freebird]

This kid needs to be given up for adoption so it and the teen mother can both have a normal life.

I don't care what anyone says or lies about anymore. DO THE MATH, people!!! If she is legitimately 18 years old now and already has a 16 month old chid she was the victim of statutory rape, at best.

Again, I have to ask. WHERE are all the 14-17 year old boys in this sect??? The statistics defy probability. In the 14-17 year old age group there are over 50 girls and less than 20 boys. It defies probability and reason. They are either shipping them off or killing them off. The pedophile old men in charge are not passing out the pubescent girls to the teenage boys. They want them for themselves. It's disgusting institutionalized sexual abuse. I hope someone could prove me worng, but the evidence just keeps piling up.

[LLaFren]

Originally posted by tisamystery [*]The new mother already has a 16 month old child. [/*]

She's 18 just gave birth, has a 16 month old, hmm, let me see if my math works

16 month old+9 month pregnancy=2years, girl was 16 when she concieved the first child

Is 16 legal or illegal in TX?

[Mitzy2]

Originally posted by LLaFren [*]

She's 18 just gave birth, has a 16 month old, hmm, let me see if my math works

16 month old+9 month pregnancy=2years, girl was 16 when she concieved the first child

Is 16 legal or illegal in TX? [/*]

In this case it appears to be as her alledged husband is 4 years older than her. Though I doubt there will be any legal ramifcations if they are legally married. If it can be proven the girl is 18, Texas Auth are going to have to let her and her baby go ! JMO

[cloe23]

Originally posted by Texanne [*]I think I must be "google challenged", because I cannot find the report from some time back about the effects of pregnancy on the body of a young girl. I just remember reading that the teenage body is not quite ready for the stress of childbirth. I can only imagine the stress of bearing a child per year on a still developing body. But, without the link to back me up, I guess I will have to let it go. [/*]

I gave birth at 17yrs. and again at 19yrs. Giving birth and motherhood was easy for me, my natural instincts kicked right in and I was a good mother. It was the part the got me pregnant that has forever scared me, father being 9yrs my senior.
Now at the age of 13yrs -15yrs I can't imagine, I am sure these girls have no clue what is happening to them. IMO

I will look for a link too

[cloe23]

Originally posted by cloe23 [*]

I gave birth at 17yrs. and again at 19yrs. Giving birth and motherhood was easy for me, my natural instincts kicked right in and I was a good mother. It was the part the got me pregnant that has forever scared me, father being 9yrs my senior.
Now at the age of 13yrs -15yrs I can't imagine, I am sure these girls have no clue what is happening to them. IMO

I will look for a link too [/*]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_pregnancy

Teenage pregnancy is defined as a teenage or underaged girl, usually within the ages of 13 and 19, becoming pregnant...

[Freebird]

Originally posted by MarchHare1 [*]

if they intend on raising their daughters to be brood mares at the grand old age of 13, and their sons to be child molesters, or simply abandon them, and allow them to be exiled when they become competition for the females in the herd, by the older males...then yes. [/*]

Why wouldn't we have the same problem with the teen mothers?

Originally posted by Bratlings [*]The girl probably was not a child, but an adult. But now when they figure that out they will rip a newborn from it's mother. How heartbreaking! This is wrong!


"Texas says baby’s mom not a sect minor
Child welfare officials tell judge Tuesday she is an adult "

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24601179/ [/*]

ITA...now they take the baby away.

[walton]

Makes me angry to Brat. I live in a small community. 20-30 thousand and I in all my years have never come across any adults that didn't have some form of identification.

[evalles]

The other one they had classified as a minor, showed them a driver's license and birth certificate that proved she was 22.
It's scary, not all 18 year olds have picture ID and they refuse to accept the birth certificates.
How many others do you think they're mis-classifying as minors.

Originally posted by walton [*]Makes me angry to Brat. I live in a small community. 20-30 thousand and I in all my years have never come across any adults that didn't have some form of identification. [/*]

If she had a photo ID that proved her over 18, why didn't she show it in the first place?

She already had one child... I wonder if she was underage when that one was born, and she lied to either protect the father of that child, or to be able to stay with her child.

[warhorse46]

Originally posted by Texanne [*]I think I must be "google challenged", because I cannot find the report from some time back about the effects of pregnancy on the body of a young girl. I just remember reading that the teenage body is not quite ready for the stress of childbirth. I can only imagine the stress of bearing a child per year on a still developing body. But, without the link to back me up, I guess I will have to let it go. [/*]

Because their bones are not fully grown yet teen mothers are @ very high risk for bone depletion. They are @ a higher risk for pregnancy induced hypertension. The babies are in the high risk category too.

http://www.womenshealthchannel.com/t...cy/index.shtml
http://www.marchofdimes.com/professi...14332_1159.asp
http://www.essortment.com/all/teenpregnancyh_ryot.htm

[warhorse46]

Originally posted by evalles [*]The other one they had classified as a minor, showed them a driver's license and birth certificate that proved she was 22.
It's scary, not all 18 year olds have picture ID and they refuse to accept the birth certificates.
How many others do you think they're mis-classifying as minors. [/*]

Even if she is 18 now the fact remains that she was severly underaged when she got pregnant with her 16 month old child.

[warhorse46]

Originally posted by Cellar Rat [*]I don't care what anyone says or lies about anymore. DO THE MATH, people!!! If she is legitimately 18 years old now and already has a 16 month old chid she was the victim of statutory rape, at best.

Again, I have to ask. WHERE are all the 14-17 year old boys in this sect??? The statistics defy probability. In the 14-17 year old age group there are over 50 girls and less than 20 boys. It defies probability and reason. They are either shipping them off or killing them off. The pedophile old men in charge are not passing out the pubescent girls to the teenage boys. They want them for themselves. It's disgusting institutionalized sexual abuse. I hope someone could prove me worng, but the evidence just keeps piling up. [/*]

<<Texas

If you are 14 to 17 years of age, you will need to show your birth certificate or some license, certificate or document issued by this state or another state, the U.S. or a foreign government.(Drivers license, military ID, passport or baptismal).


Both parties must be 18 years or older,(14-17 requires parental consent).


Both parties must provide their social security number or state they have one.


Both parties must provide all information as required on the application and as requested by the clerk.


Both parties must take the oath printed on the application and sign the application in the presence of the clerk.
http://usmarriagelaws.com/search/uni...nt/index.shtml >>

[juliekan]

this girl turned 18 in April. doesn't she have another child, and if so, how old would she have been when that child was conceived?

OOPS just saw the answer to my question...that's what I get for reading backwards!!

[Details]

However - they aren't married legally. And a legal marriage has protections - not the least of which is that both the man and the woman show up in a public place, where she declares that this is her free intention, as does he, and her parents say, in an open place under no constraint nor threat of any force, that they approve.

Big difference between that, and being told you are assigned to a man, off to the temple, and you are handed over to your new owner - no one other than cult members around, no one to support a protest, no way to call the police, no way to say No.

[evalles]

Originally posted by warhorse46 [*]


Even if she is 18 now the fact remains that she was severly underaged when she got pregnant with her 16 month old child. [/*]

The fact remains that she was classified as a minor in order to increase the number of pregnant minors, per the state's agenda.

[lotty]

Originally posted by evalles [*]

The fact remains that she was classified as a minor in order to increase the number of pregnant minors, per the state's agenda. [/*]

The "fact" remains...give me a link to their agenda...prove it.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by lotty [*]

The "fact" remains...give me a link to their agenda...prove it. [/*]

That poster didn't post a 'fact', only an opinion. That poster might want rethink they way they use the words 'the fact remains'. It is not a fact, it is a presumption on that person's part. An opinion only.


hiya lotty

[lotty]

Originally posted by KatyDid [*]

That poster didn't post a 'fact', only an opinion. That poster might want rethink they way they use the words 'the fact remains'. It is not a fact, it is a presumption on that person's part. An opinion only.


hiya lotty [/*]

Hiya Katy
I love the JMO IMO MOO IMHO!

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Bratlings [*]

The survivors are not the gospel either, they have their own version and that is individual to them. It could very well be biased, how would we know? Still survivors of one group does not indicate what is happening in others, and furthermore does not mean is happening to every kid.

It is absolutely ridiculous to refer to people including children as, "herds" and to not respect their rights as citizens. The Constitution protects our rights to raise our own children and each and every one of those children who are abused should be removed and each and every child who is not being abused or in danger of being abused should stay! [/*]

Then all these survivors are in cahoots with each other, even the ones that died as Joseph Smith's wives. Their stories have the same overtones of the current survivors.

Check out Oprah today if you can. Elissa Wall will be on with a special report from Lisa Ling. Elissa's story is the same as all the other survivors.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Bratlings [*]


Not every Holocaust survivor knows or knew what was happening in other camps, not every person raped knows what happened in another. The point is the story is not and will not ever be one size fits all. [/*]

They all have the same leader...

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Bratlings [*]


Not every Holocaust survivor knows or knew what was happening in other camps, not every person raped knows what happened in another. The point is the story is not and will not ever be one size fits all. [/*]

I guess these women are all in cahoots with each other, even the ones that died in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

Yes, they are all individuals, but their stories have the same tone about them. They were all abused physically and psychologically.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Bratlings [*]


It does NOT matter! There are people in that group who have only one wife and have no intentions of taking on another. All of Jim Jones followers had the same leader too. They didnt all murder, and commit suicide did they? [/*]

The exception, not the rule?

Even in their own written and taped teachings they profess polygamy as the ONLY way a man can get to heaven. The only way a woman can get there is through marriage to these men.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Bratlings [*]


To you they all have the same tone, I dont nor does anyone else know enough facts about the Texas situation to make as many judgments as you do. [/*]

Was I making judgments about the Texas compound, or the FLDS practices in general?

I think the latter.

[Details]

When every last survivor tells the same story, to decide that they all must be liars tells a story - but not about the survivors.


All the 13 year old boys. All the girls escaping after rape. All the husbands forced out so their wives could be redistributed. So many people to decide to ignore because - why?

[Details]

Originally posted by Bratlings [*]First of all, you are assuming that all of what you said in your post is true. Unless you have personal experience in these groups, I find it hardly doubtful that you have an accurate understanding of any of their practices. Dont forget so fast that these facts are mostly reported by news agencies who have a vested interest in the public watching or buying. The more controversial depiction the more money made.

Secondly, how do you know they were never legally married? They could have been... they might be now... we cant take the media nor CPS for the gospel in this case. ... [/*]

Uh huh. Can't take the media, CPS, court records, FLDS records, FLDS escapees, FLDS throwaways, trial evidence, statistical evidence, pregnant teenagers, current FLDS member interviews, etc. - can't believe anyone - other than the FLDS - and not all of the FLDS - you have to omit their own statements about underage marriage to believe what you are saying here. Boy - that's a lot of people to not believe, to choose to leave children in danger because unless there's videotape you won't believe it.

How we know they aren't legally married - because if they were it'd be trivial to find that out - marriage records are not secrets - the state would not have had to go into their own records to find out who was married to who. Also because FLDS's own records show that they aren't legally married - when the 14, 15, 16 year old child is a second wife, there's no such thing as a legal marriage, even if you think it's OK to force such a child to marry.

[Details]

Originally posted by Bratlings [*]...The Constitution protects our rights to raise our own children and each and every one of those children who are abused should be removed and each and every child who is not being abused or in danger of being abused should stay! They did not do that, they just made one decision for everyone. Some of those women have only boys, and CPS themselves admits they were not being abused. [/*]

You need a link for both of these. Where does the Constitution protect our rights to raise our children? I'm not aware of a single thing about children in there. And something protecting our rights to abuse our children is definitely not in there. Freedom of religion is - but that means that the laws are to be the same for all - not that religion is an excuse to break laws.

And where do you see CPS admitting that the boys were not being abused? I sure haven't seen that - I've seen the opposite - suspicious broken bones, 36 missing boys, and some issues with documented sexual abuse - even if they aren't saying it's a parent, is it something the parents allowed, ignored? Of course there's the other bit of abuse - the boys are being groomed to become pedophiles. Just as the girls are being groomed to become pedophile victims.

[Details]

Originally posted by Bratlings [*]No, They actually believe that God speaks to & guides their Prophet. Who are any of us to decide if its true or not? But it is a religious belief no matter how crazy we see it. As long as no one is being forced & underage I'm OK with what they do.

Now if you had been Abraham and God had told you to sacrifice your only son would you have done it? Would you have called him crazy for following that instruction? [/*]

Are you saying child sacrifice is OK with you, if done by religion? Just to be clear here.

[Details]

Originally posted by Bratlings [*]They have marriage certificates, they have birth certificates, they even have state ID's that are not being accepted! [/*]

Link?

I haven't seen a single report of a marriage license anywhere - and I read every article I can find on this case. So I don't believe you.

[lotty]

Originally posted by Bratlings [*]


They have marriage certificates, they have birth certificates, they even have state ID's that are not being accepted! [/*]

Am I wrong? Marriage certificates are public record, aren't they?

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by lotty [*]

Am I wrong? Marriage certificates are public record, aren't they? [/*]

You are correct. Maybe their documents couldn't be validated.