April 28, 29, 30th

[martha]

This really makes me think ml and cl had a plan. Maybe to leave togeather. She knew she was going to stay some where that night. I guess she thought if someone seen her car at the bus station they would think she had already gone. Maybe cl was going to stay with her that night or maybe not but she was. I think he was going to meet her where ever she was going later on. I think he told her he would be there by the time the baby was borned. When she went back to the house for him to take her to the motel tina came in and caught them. just guessing !!!jmho the only thing I do know is something went so terb wrong and ml and her baby is dead. so very sad. my heart is still breaking for this young lady and her baby

Originally posted by martha [*]This really makes me think ml and cl had a plan. Maybe to leave togeather. She knew she was going to stay some where that night. I guess she thought if someone seen her car at the bus station they would think she had already gone. Maybe cl was going to stay with her that night or maybe not but she was. I think he was going to meet her where ever she was going later on. I think he told her he would be there by the time the baby was borned. When she went back to the house for him to take her to the motel tina came in and caught them. just guessing !!!jmho the only thing I do know is something went so terb wrong and ml and her baby is dead. so very sad. my heart is still breaking for this young lady and her baby [/*]

Good morning.....I agree with your theory.

[caejde]

Originally posted by Babes [*]

Have you seen some post and stories of some women who brought rape charges to their "superiors" in the Military? If the Military is perfect in handling these cases then we will not see these stories IMO.

What's wrong if the DOD check the process of the Military in handling rape charges? [/*]

I know I am late in responding with this but I haven't been around much. Not one entity is perfect when it comes to handling and preventing rape. You will never stop hearing about rape anywhere-unfortunate as that is. The military has their policies and procedures which is set by DOD and is the same branch to branch. We are given classes on sexual assault and there is even a sexual assault prevention month. But that isn't going to stop anyone from raping another. It's the same in the civilian world...you can't prevent it from happening. Here in Onslow Co. there was a police officer that was accused of rape and it wasn't prosecuted. The DA said they could prove sex took place but no rape and so no charges were filed.

[caejde]

Originally posted by martha [*] I don;t know what part Durham played in this but we may be sup when we find out. Is he in nc now ? [/*]

Durham isn't in NC. Currently, he is in Iraq.

[martha]

Originally posted by caejde [*]

I know I am late in responding with this but I haven't been around much. Not one entity is perfect when it comes to handling and preventing rape. You will never stop hearing about rape anywhere-unfortunate as that is. The military has their policies and procedures which is set by DOD and is the same branch to branch. We are given classes on sexual assault and there is even a sexual assault prevention month. But that isn't going to stop anyone from raping another. It's the same in the civilian world...you can't prevent it from happening. Here in Onslow Co. there was a police officer that was accused of rape and it wasn't prosecuted. The DA said they could prove sex took place but no rape and so no charges were filed. [/*]

ITA rape has and will be going on as long as the world stands. sometimes it is rape and sometimes it is not. I know in my heart the MC did what they were sup to do. From what I have read on this board I think there was not a rape that even happened. jmho why blame the MC for something that went on between to young people?

[martha]

Originally posted by caejde [*]

Durham isn't in NC. Currently, he is in Iraq. [/*]

Thanks caejde I thought I read somewhere that he had been sent to Iraq. I was looking at some pictures of our boys in Iraq and wish I had one of the boys address so I could write him. I know it is so hard on them to be away from their familys.

[caejde]

Originally posted by martha [*] Thanks caejde I thought I read somewhere that he had been sent to Iraq. I was looking at some pictures of our boys in Iraq and wish I had one of the boys address so I could write him. I know it is so hard on them to be away from their familys. [/*]

Check with your local USO and see if they have anything. Sometimes they collect donations for care packages. When my husband was there, his grandmother's church sent him cards and letters.

[martha]

Originally posted by caejde [*]

Check with your local USO and see if they have anything. Sometimes they collect donations for care packages. When my husband was there, his grandmother's church sent him cards and letters. [/*]

Thank honey that sounds like a good idea. for some reason when I was looking at the pictures I felt a real need to write some of them.

Originally posted by caejde [*]

I know I am late in responding with this but I haven't been around much. Not one entity is perfect when it comes to handling and preventing rape. You will never stop hearing about rape anywhere-unfortunate as that is. The military has their policies and procedures which is set by DOD and is the same branch to branch. We are given classes on sexual assault and there is even a sexual assault prevention month. But that isn't going to stop anyone from raping another. It's the same in the civilian world...you can't prevent it from happening. Here in Onslow Co. there was a police officer that was accused of rape and it wasn't prosecuted. The DA said they could prove sex took place but no rape and so no charges were filed. [/*]

The point of the Turner investigation isn't the prevention of rape in the military (though that's a very important goal that the military strives for as well). It's the handling of the case once the accusation was made that is the focus of Turner's and the Lauterbach family's efforts.

I'm glad that enlisted personnel take classes on sexual assault, but that doesn't prevent rape from happening any more than D.A.R.E. classes in school prevent all drug & alcohol use by students from happening. Once a rape has occurred, or is said to have occurred, then the process from that point needs to protect the safety and well-being of the accuser as well as the rights of the accused. I think there are cases in the military where this doesn't happen as it should, just as there as cases in the civilian world where the process doesn't protect one party or the other as it should, despite written policies and guidelines in place for authorities to follow. The military is comprised of individuals who are capable of judgmental error, just as civilian LE is.

The month of April is National Sexual Assault Awareness and Prevention Month everywhere, recognized and observed every year by many organizations, groups and colleges -- it's not unique to the military, though the military does recognize and observe it, too.

http://www.marines.mil/news/messages...TIONMONTH.aspx

Notice the last paragraph in the above link:

4. COMMANDERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO TAKE THIS TIME TO REINFORCE OUR STRONGEST WEAPONS IN COMBATING THIS TYPE OF CRIME: PREVENTION TRAINING; INCREASED AWARENESS OF SEXUAL ASSAULT ISSUES; PROPER AND DIGNIFIED CARE OF VICTIMS; AND ACCOUNTABILITY OF OFFENDERS. EVERY MARINE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PREVENTING SEXUAL ASSAULT BY BUILDING A CLIMATE OF RESPECT IN WHICH SUCH BEHAVIOR IS NOT TOLERATED.

Other than the prevention and awareness part, I'm not so sure that the MC at Camp Lejeune did all it could on the rest. If the MC consistently handles each and every case perfectly, there would be no need to "encourage" MC commanders to reinforce these very basic precepts. Why would any commanders need "encouragement" to do so? JMO

ETA: The site I quoted from allows the distribution of its material.

http://www.marines.mil/usmc/Pages/PrivacyPolicy.aspx

2. Information presented on this site is considered public information and may be distributed or copied. Use of appropriate byline/photo/image credits is requested.

[caejde]

Charlotte, while I respect your post, I can't agree with all of it. I know the sexual assault prevention isn't just for the military. I didn't know what month it was held in as last year it was in March. This is the time in which the safety briefings are given-and it's not just for enlisted personnel. In my unit, every safety briefing was for the entire command-enlisted and officer. And no the briefings don't prevent rape from happening because that is something that can't be prevented. But these classes are refresher courses that are given. They are given by civilian, local law enforcement and military personnel. (at least where I was at). And it goes into great detail about what is considered rape-ie a girl being too intoxicated and not being able to give full consent. And from everything that we know, I believe the command did everything they could when it came to Maria's allegations. The DA said he sat with them for several hours and he felt confident they didn't do anything wrong.

[cuppajoe]

Originally posted by caejde [*]Charlotte, while I respect your post, I can't agree with all of it. I know the sexual assault prevention isn't just for the military. I didn't know what month it was held in as last year it was in March. This is the time in which the safety briefings are given-and it's not just for enlisted personnel. In my unit, every safety briefing was for the entire command-enlisted and officer. And no the briefings don't prevent rape from happening because that is something that can't be prevented. But these classes are refresher courses that are given. They are given by civilian, local law enforcement and military personnel. (at least where I was at). And it goes into great detail about what is considered rape-ie a girl being too intoxicated and not being able to give full consent. And from everything that we know, I believe the command did everything they could when it came to Maria's allegations. The DA said he sat with them for several hours and he felt confident they didn't do anything wrong. [/*]

If the DA said that, I believe he was referring to the MC furnishing information when LE began handling the Missing Person case.

I believe he couldn't be referring to how the MC handled the alleged rape allegations. LE wasn't investigating that case. moo

[caejde]

Originally posted by cuppajoe [*]

If the DA said that, I believe he was referring to the MC furnishing information when LE began handling the Missing Person case.

I believe he couldn't be referring to how the MC handled the alleged rape allegations. LE wasn't investigating that case. moo [/*]

Nope, he said he was on base discussing everything and he felt they did everything correctly based on the allegations that were brought up by Maria. I will find the video of it being said.

[caejde]

http://www.jdnews.com/video/index.ph...tid=1375780280

Here is the video. It's on January 15 and he says he meets with NCIS and Marine Corps personnel regarding the allegations based on the rape allegations Maria brought forth.

[martha]

When ml went back and recanted and said it was not a rape the MC did not drop it then did they?

[strick10]

Originally posted by martha [*]When ml went back and recanted and said it was not a rape the MC did not drop it then did they? [/*]

No Martha they didn't drop the case. Based on the Feb due date the Naval Hospital had issued it would have been easy for NCIS to say that the pregancy wasn't a result of the rape furthering their lack of evidence. Could have been the end of the case, however, the command wanted to go forth with the Article 32 to ensure that there was absolutely no doubt that a rape did not occur. Now being that they were wanting the babies DNA leads me to believe that NCIS or the command believed both Maria and Cesar did not tell the truth. NCIS was going to find out for sure if there had in fact been any type of sexual relationship in May in which Maria may have not mentioned therefore throwing the credibility of both out the window. Rape allegations are a serious matter and I believe the MC was going to get down to the bottom of it.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by strick10 [*]

No Martha they didn't drop the case. Based on the Feb due date the Naval Hospital had issued it would have been easy for NCIS to say that the pregancy wasn't a result of the rape furthering their lack of evidence. Could have been the end of the case, however, the command wanted to go forth with the Article 32 to ensure that there was absolutely no doubt that a rape did not occur. Now being that they were wanting the babies DNA leads me to believe that NCIS or the command believed both Maria and Cesar did not tell the truth. NCIS was going to find out for sure if there had in fact been any type of sexual relationship in May in which Maria may have not mentioned therefore throwing the credibility of both out the window. Rape allegations are a serious matter and I believe the MC was going to get down to the bottom of it. [/*]

Very well stated strick, and I don't think their interest in doing so was limited to one party or supportive of Cesar. I believe their intent was to follow through as it should be.

Thanks for your input.

JMO.

[martha]

Thank you sticky10 I did not think they droped the case. So the MC was doing what they were sup to do. I think down the road they will find out what was going on between ml and cl jmho

[martha]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES [*]

Very well stated strick, and I don't think their interest in doing so was limited to one party or supportive of Cesar. I believe their intent was to follow through as it should be.

Thanks for your input.

JMO. [/*]

ITA with you.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by caejde [*]

Nope, he said he was on base discussing everything and he felt they did everything correctly based on the allegations that were brought up by Maria. I will find the video of it being said. [/*]

Hudson was so uncomfortable with labeling Laurean a rapist that he even mentioned the false allegations made against the Duke Lacrosse case during one of his PCs and cautioned that Laurean was never charged or tried for this. He knows allegations are just that and that there must be substantiation and corroboration in a court of law to determine if these allegations were proven true or not.

Personally after the NiFong disaster I don't think many DAs would have pursued charges against Laurean simply because they had nothing to prove the allegations. All they had was a she/he said
case. They couldn't even prove a rape had taken place....no forensics......no nothing and I think Hudson was very mindful of that and was probably amazed that the MC actually had decided to proceed forward even with a very iffy case.

I agree wth Hudson. I think the MC/NCIS did do their jobs very well and took this very seriously and adhered to the rules.

imoo

[hinman]

Originally posted by martha [*]Thank you sticky10 I did not think they droped the case. So the MC was doing what they were sup to do. I think down the road they will find out what was going on between ml and cl jmho [/*]

Morning Martha. I think that MC did do everything they were suppose to do. Now what Mary is trying to do is see if anything needs to be added to that process to make sure alleged rape victims remain safe.

I do not see a problem with that. I do not even see the big deal about using this case which might not of had a rape happen. By using this case they can see if any changes need to be made to the process of clearing some one of charges.

I personally feel that the case should be shut which it is not. We are going on a year and if there is no evidence of rape then the case needs to be closed, would that of prevented Maria's murder probably not, but there would not be all this speculation right now and CL would not of had to worry about being charged with a rape he did not commit. If they were going to continue to invesitgate for whatever reason maybe by letting both parties no wha tis going on with that investigation would of calm thigns down.

I have womdered often if CL was aware that they did not think he committed the alleged rape.

[strick10]

Originally posted by martha [*]Thank you sticky10 I did not think they droped the case. So the MC was doing what they were sup to do. I think down the road they will find out what was going on between ml and cl jmho [/*]

The MC did do what they were suppose to do in accordance with the rules and regulations set before them. I don't believe these were modified as the persons involved went on with the investigation/case. It has been stated by Lejeune and the Commandant of the MC that the appropriate steps were taken in accordance with the MCO's applicable to this issue. I don't understand what type of answer Mary and Turner are expecting from DOD since they are the entity that sets for these regulations. Yes DOD can look to see if the appropriate regulations were followed and I think they will find that they were. Yet I don't believe Mary nor Turner are going to accept this answer. I understand what Mary is trying to accomplish (Turner I believe has a different idea) and if it is found that there needs to be something else needs to be implemented then by gosh I hope DOD, SARPO and whomever carries forth with that change. Always room for improvement in everything we do. I don't like how Mary is trying to place the blame on the MC but she is entitled to free speech. I just hope that Marias memory is not embarrassed by perhaps the entire story coming out and made public.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES [*]

Very well stated strick, and I don't think their interest in doing so was limited to one party or supportive of Cesar. I believe their intent was to follow through as it should be.

Thanks for your input.

JMO. [/*]

I don't think so either.

If the MC needs to review their policies and procedures, then ALL military branches need to do so likewise.

jmoo


You have mail.

[strick10]

Originally posted by nuttintodo [*]

I don't think so either.

If the MC needs to review their policies and procedures, then ALL military branches need to do so likewise.

jmoo


You have mail. [/*]

Well since DOD is suppose to be investigating this issue I'm sure if anything is added to the regs it'll be made across the board and I'm sure they will ensure that both the accussed and accusser will receive fair treatment. Yes there are rapes in the military but there are also false rape allegations and you just can't treat an accussed as a guilty party from the get go. Unless of course there is physical evidence and witnesses that prove that the rape occurred then that person would be place in pre-trial confinment.

[caejde]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze [*]

Hudson was so uncomfortable with labeling Laurean a rapist that he even mentioned the false allegations made against the Duke Lacrosse case during one of his PCs and cautioned that Laurean was never charged or tried for this. He knows allegations are just that and that there must be substantiation and corroboration in a court of law to determine if these allegations were proven true or not.

Personally after the NiFong disaster I don't think many DAs would have pursued charges against Laurean simply because they had nothing to prove the allegations. All they had was a she/he said
case. They couldn't even prove a rape had taken place....no forensics......no nothing and I think Hudson was very mindful of that and was probably amazed that the MC actually had decided to proceed forward even with a very iffy case.

I agree wth Hudson. I think the MC/NCIS did do their jobs very well and took this very seriously and adhered to the rules.

imoo [/*]

Even just recently our DA couldn't prosecute an alleged rape case. Was a former police officer being accused of rape. Said he could show sex but no rape.

[caejde]

Originally posted by strick10 [*]

Well since DOD is suppose to be investigating this issue I'm sure if anything is added to the regs it'll be made across the board and I'm sure they will ensure that both the accussed and accusser will receive fair treatment. Yes there are rapes in the military but there are also false rape allegations and you just can't treat an accussed as a guilty party from the get go. Unless of course there is physical evidence and witnesses that prove that the rape occurred then that person would be place in pre-trial confinment. [/*]

IA!

[cuppajoe]

Originally posted by caejde [*]http://www.jdnews.com/video/index.ph...tid=1375780280

Here is the video. It's on January 15 and he says he meets with NCIS and Marine Corps personnel regarding the allegations based on the rape allegations Maria brought forth. [/*]

I couldn't find the video you are talking about on that link. Could you advise further?

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by strick10 [*]

Well since DOD is suppose to be investigating this issue I'm sure if anything is added to the regs it'll be made across the board and I'm sure they will ensure that both the accussed and accusser will receive fair treatment. Yes there are rapes in the military but there are also false rape allegations and you just can't treat an accussed as a guilty party from the get go. Unless of course there is physical evidence and witnesses that prove that the rape occurred then that person would be place in pre-trial confinment. [/*]

Sorry Strick, I went back and have re-read my post and I really messed that one up.

What I meant to say is if the DOD does their investigation and finds anything the MC did wrong (which I feel they followed protocol and procedures), needs to be changed, etc., then those changes need to be made across the board.

Sorry if I implied anything else as it wasn't my intent.

jmoo

[strick10]

Originally posted by nuttintodo [*]

Sorry Strick, I went back and have re-read my post and I really messed that one up.

What I meant to say is if the DOD does their investigation and finds anything the MC did wrong (which I feel they followed protocol and procedures), needs to be changed, etc., then those changes need to be made across the board.

Sorry if I implied anything else as it wasn't my intent.

jmoo [/*]

I read it like you meant it. I didn't see any implications of any type in your post whatsoever. I read it like you've just posted. No mess up nuttin, it's all good.

[byecats]

Originally posted by cuppajoe [*]


I couldn't find the video you are talking about on that link. Could you advise further? [/*]

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1379196399
1:17 in "completely satistifed with their investigation"

[caejde]

Originally posted by byecats [*]

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1379196399
1:17 in "completely satistifed with their investigation" [/*]

Thank you for posting that link. I don't know why it posted the wrong video. I must have copied the wrong link and I apologize.

[cuppajoe]

Originally posted by byecats [*]

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1379196399
1:17 in "completely satistifed with their investigation" [/*]

Thank you for the link.

[cuppajoe]

I'm wondering how qualified the DA was in determining the rape allegations were handled properly by the MC? Is he familiar with all their guidelines and procedures?

I don't think two hours is enough time to bring him up to speed with reviewing the file and reading all the procedures, guidelines, and manuals regarding this.

Since he is not a military person dealing in this aspect of the case, I doubt his statement will hold much water with the congressman.

jmo of course.

[strick10]

Originally posted by cuppajoe [*]I'm wondering how qualified the DA was in determining the rape allegations were handled properly by the MC? Is he familiar with all their guidelines and procedures?

I don't think two hours is enough time to bring him up to speed with reviewing the file and reading all the procedures, guidelines, and manuals regarding this.

Since he is not a military person dealing in this aspect of the case, I doubt his statement will hold much water with the congressman.

jmo of course. [/*]

Well, IMO I don't think anything the Congressman is told is going to be believed by him. I think he wants the answers to be what he thinks they should be vice the truth.

You're right 2 hours is not enough time to review all the orders etc. but I'd have to think that certain procedures are pretty similar to the civilian procedures. I think the DA would have been able to determine in a short time if something was logically amiss.

[martha]

If they have a trial on the murder and charge cl with it will the rape case even come into play? I don;t know much about legal stuff so I am just asking? I don;t think there was a rape jmho

[strick10]

Originally posted by martha [*]If they have a trial on the murder and charge cl with it will the rape case even come into play? I don;t know much about legal stuff so I am just asking? I don;t think there was a rape jmho [/*]

I don't think the rape case will come into play martha. Though the rape allegation may have something to do with the end result it was an allegation. Nothing was ever proved and no charges were ever made. Different jurisdictions would also lead me to believe that the rape allegations could not be brought into the murder case, but like you I'm not a legal eagle so I don't know.

I think the rape case is a closed case now. They couldn't prove anything then and now with Maria gone they can't move forward with the case. I believe the Commandants response was that the case had been closed. IMO

[mini-me]

Was just reading at onslowcrime blogs under maria's itinerary. Don't know how to supply the link for it if someone please do. some interesting information there.

[martha]

Thank you Stick10 I read so much here that I tend to forget a lot ha wanted to get something straight in my mind in case they get cl back and have a trial.

[martha]

Originally posted by Kim [*]
Good morning.....I agree with your theory. [/*]

Hi Kim been missing you. come back and post

Originally posted by martha [*] Hi Kim been missing you. come back and post [/*]

Thank you Martha! How sweet.
I dont have much to say I mostly peep & post in between tasks here at home.Ill surely have something to say once Cesar tells his story (I hope).TC

[cuppajoe]

Originally posted by strick10 [*]

Well, IMO I don't think anything the Congressman is told is going to be believed by him. I think he wants the answers to be what he thinks they should be vice the truth.

You're right 2 hours is not enough time to review all the orders etc. but I'd have to think that certain procedures are pretty similar to the civilian procedures. I think the DA would have been able to determine in a short time if something was logically amiss. [/*]

You could be right, but I don't think it hurts for congress to check out what happened or didn't happen. It appears there are more congressmen to be involved then just Turner. Be that as it may, if the MC did nothing wrong, they have nothing to worry about.

There were inconsistencies between the answers the military gave to the congressman and the press conference they had.

There may be some changes needed, but at this time it hasn't been determined. It will be interesting to see what comes of the congressman's inquiry.

I just don't think a civilian DA can determine for sure if anything was amiss with just a two hour visit.

jmo of course.