Week End 4/26, 4/27, 4/29

[LLaFren]

To get the week end started!

[LLaFren]

OMG - First time I've seen someone from the Morman Church speak out:

Quote:

Elder Quentin L. Cook, an apostle for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, appealed to the media in a news release on April 17 to make a clear distinction in their reports between the Church and the polygamist sect in Texas.

Cook praised news media that are making this distinction but expressed concerns about others who are perpetuating mistruths about the Church, whose members are commonly referred to as Mormons, the release said.

“It’s only to be applied to members of the church of LDS and should never be used to describe a polygamist sect,”Comstock said.

Full Article:

http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/feat...ry/235393.html
I wonder when they'll step up to the plate and help the kids?

[MoonFlwr]

An interesting article!

Hi, LLaFren

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by LLaFren [*]OMG - First time I've seen someone from the Morman Church speak out:

Quote:

Elder Quentin L. Cook, an apostle for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, appealed to the media in a news release on April 17 to make a clear distinction in their reports between the Church and the polygamist sect in Texas.

Cook praised news media that are making this distinction but expressed concerns about others who are perpetuating mistruths about the Church, whose members are commonly referred to as Mormons, the release said.

“It’s only to be applied to members of the church of LDS and should never be used to describe a polygamist sect,”Comstock said.

Full Article:

http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/feat...ry/235393.html
I wonder when they'll step up to the plate and help the kids? [/*]

great question that deserves an answer.

i also wonder if he is willing to talk about the secrets of the mormon church. they still use the book of mormon in their teachings.

why haven't they spoken out about the atrocities of the polygamy groups? the mormon church wields a mighty sword. if they would come up to the plate in utah, don't you think the government would not be so tolerant of the polygamist groups.

his words are only words~~~where are his actions?

"...mormon should never be used to describe polygamist sects..."

isn't that where polygamy got its start?

[MoonFlwr]

Originally posted by KatyDid [*]

great question that deserves an answer.

i also wonder if he is willing to talk about the secrets of the mormon church. they still use the book of mormon in their teachings.

why haven't they spoken out about the atrocities of the polygamy groups? the mormon church wields a mighty sword. if they would come up to the plate in utah, don't you think the government would not be so tolerant of the polygamist groups.

his words are only words~~~where are his actions?

"...mormon should never be used to describe polygamist sects..."

isn't that where polygamy got its start?
[/*]

Well, that's not where it got it's start in history (imo), but, yeah, the mormon church DID condone it.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by MoonFlwr [*]

Well, that's not where it got it's start in history (imo), but, yeah, the mormon church DID condone it. [/*]

Thank you for the correction MoonFlwr.

[walton]

Originally posted by MoonFlwr [*]

Well, that's not where it got it's start in history (imo), but, yeah, the mormon church DID condone it. [/*]

But it is where it got its start in U.S. history isn't it? All of the issues we have today concerning Polygamy problems and abuse have started with the LDS Church.

How many other states are having problems with it do you think?


Are there other groups in the U.S. that are practicing Polygamy that are not using the Book of Mormon as their base?

[walton]

http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/...ke-distinction

Elder Cook said it is very confusing to the public when some media use “Mormon” to describe the Texas-based polygamous group that is currently under investigation for possible incidents of child abuse. He reiterated that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, with over 13 million members worldwide, is not connected in any way to sects that practice polygamy.
[*]Drawing contrasts between the Church and polygamists, Elder Cook said that Church members do not live in isolated compounds, arrange marriages, dress in old-fashioned clothing or wear unusual hairstyles. [/*]




Elder Cook needs to talk to the cult expert that they used during the Eldorado hearing. jmo


In a nutshell- The FLDS use the Book of Mormon to condone their practice of Polygamy and their lifestyle.

Weddings behind closed doors.
Threats of Blood Atonement at Weddings.
Secret names given during weddings.
Special garments worn to this day to protect them thru out their day. I can't remember what the little markings meant. I'll have to look again.
All still practiced not only by the FLDS but by those in the LDS Church.


Lots of Churches have their own little ceremonies and rituals. But I don't believe that there are any other than the LDS that practice so many behind closed doors.

Boy these groups sure have a lot of issues about closed doors, big walls, big fences. jmo

[lotty]

Hi Walton

Did the courts ever appoint new UEP Trustees? Just curious.
IMO Sure puts you between a rock and a hard place if you are trying to stay legit. with Bruce Wisan and in Warren's good graces too. JMO/IMO

[Roux]

Last night channel surfing I saw a man on NG from one of the group homes the children have been sent to. He said among other things they'd done at their facility so as to not upset the children, they removed everything red in color, told all the staff not to wear red. I would suppose this has something to do with blood? Does anyone know the significance of this to the cult? TY.

[lotty]

Originally posted by Roux [*]Last night channel surfing I saw a man on NG from one of the group homes the children have been sent to. He said among other things they'd done at their facility so as to not upset the children, they removed everything red in color, told all the staff not to wear red. I would suppose this has something to do with blood? Does anyone know the significance of this to the cult? TY. [/*]

IMO Somewhere I read, Warren doesn't like the color red. What Warren says goes. IMO/JMO

[walton]

Originally posted by lotty [*]

IMO Somewhere I read, Warren doesn't like the color red. What Warren says goes. IMO/JMO [/*]

Guess what color the vehicle was when Warren got pulled over.


Yup, Red.

Warren was just being a horses patoot concerning different things.

[walton]

Originally posted by lotty [*]Hi Walton

Did the courts ever appoint new UEP Trustees? Just curious.
IMO Sure puts you between a rock and a hard place if you are trying to stay legit. with Bruce Wisan and in Warren's good graces too. JMO/IMO [/*]

You know I thought Katy posted something awhile back but I can't find it.

I do know that Judge Denise Lindberg did everyone a favor by having Bruce Wisan in charge. jmo

Has anyone seen any comments from Gary Engle?

[tisamystery]

Who is the little girl Marilyn shows a photo of? You know Marilyn, the woman who gave the tour of the house. Then she opened a photo album and showed off her little girl. I'm confused. Is this really her daughter? Why is the kid dressed in contemporary clothes and hair style? Wouldn't she look like the other kids? Is this really her daughter or some photo they dug up somewhere? If I'm not mistaken - and I could be - the little girl has a red barette which would be against their "red thing", wouldn't it? So who is it and why are they showing it?

I was also thinking about Marilyn's claim to only one child. Could it be she's younger than she looks and can't admit to other older children? Could it be she's lost babies?

Originally posted by tisamystery [*]
Who is the little girl Marilyn shows a photo of?

You know Marilyn, the woman who gave the tour of the house.

Then she opened a photo album and showed off her little girl. I'm confused.

Is this really her daughter?

Why is the kid dressed in contemporary clothes and hair style? Wouldn't she look like the other kids?

Is this really her daughter or some photo they dug up somewhere?
If I'm not mistaken - and I could be - the little girl has a red barette which would be against their "red thing", wouldn't it?
So who is it and why are they showing it?

I was also thinking about Marilyn's claim to only one child.
Could it be she's younger than she looks and can't admit to other older children? ....... [/*]

IMO.... The way Marilyn spoke of the child raised suspicions in my mind....

Did anyone NOTICE how Marilyn continually referred the the female child as "THE LITTLE GIRL"?
Was this not a distant way to speak of one's child?
Why didn't she use the child's FIRST name?

Never once did she say "my daughter" or "my baby"......jmo

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Originally posted by Roux [*]Last night channel surfing I saw a man on NG from one of the group homes the children have been sent to. He said among other things they'd done at their facility so as to not upset the children, they removed everything red in color, told all the staff not to wear red. I would suppose this has something to do with blood? Does anyone know the significance of this to the cult? TY. [/*]

I could be wrong here, but recall the RED is significant as worn by evil persons..Hence that story of the Scarlet Letter placed on the clothing of people deemed Bad, Evil, Sinners..

Anyone else think this is true..souns plausible?

LMS

[xray ra]

Originally posted by Lyndawitha"Y [*]

I could be wrong here, but recall the RED is significant as worn by evil persons..Hence that story of the Scarlet Letter placed on the clothing of people deemed Bad, Evil, Sinners..

Anyone else think this is true..souns plausible?

LMS [/*]

Hey Lynda

I think that red is also related to the "devil". I was however encouraged by the post above that said the children were riding RED bikes. How cool!!

[lotty]

Originally posted by Lyndawitha"Y [*]

I could be wrong here, but recall the RED is significant as worn by evil persons..Hence that story of the Scarlet Letter placed on the clothing of people deemed Bad, Evil, Sinners..

Anyone else think this is true..souns plausible?

LMS [/*]

Could be, the FLDS women aren't supposed to wear black either. I've noticed wear very dark shades, but not black. JMO/IMO

[xray ra]

Lynda, sorry, the reference to the "RED" bikes was not on this thread . I'm gonna have to go back to the other threads. But it was reported that upon arriving at their new group home, some of the children saw red bikes and ran out of the buses to play with them.
If you can't find the post I will. Promise.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Devotion [*]

IMO.... The way Marilyn spoke of the child raised suspicions in my mind....

Did anyone NOTICE how Marilyn continually referred the the female child as "THE LITTLE GIRL"?
Was this not a distant way to speak of one's child?
Why didn't she use the child's FIRST name?

Never once did she say "my daughter" or "my baby"......jmo [/*]

hiya Devotion

A couple of times she called her Marva, but mostly she said little girl. I agree, it is a strange way for a mother to speak. She showed a photo of the girl and she indeed looks like she would be about 10 y/o. Here is part of the video transcript from NG last night.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../25/ng.01.html

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My little girl`s name is Marva (ph). She`s such a lovable little girl. She loves school. She`s in 3rd grade. She would come home, Mother, I got an A-plus today. I would grab her and hug her, Good job, Marva! Good job! She is my only child. These are her clothes right here. This is Marva`s bed. You can see it`s empty, and it is the hardest thing in the world for me (INAUDIBLE) in this room (INAUDIBLE) no little girl.

(END VIDEO CLIP)



Wonder how Marilyn lucked out having only one child? Is Marilyn one of Warren's wives?

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by xray ra [*]Lynda, sorry, the reference to the "RED" bikes was not on this thread . I'm gonna have to go back to the other threads. But it was reported that upon arriving at their new group home, some of the children saw red bikes and ran out of the buses to play with them.
If you can't find the post I will. Promise. [/*]

Here is the transcipt from NG show about the red bikes.

Back to Jack Downey. He is running a children`s shelter where some of the FLDS children are going to be sent or are now there. You said you removed the color red. What does the color red signify to these children?

DOWNEY: Nancy, I`m not sure what it signifies. We were just advised by Child Protective Services that the children may react to the color of red. But I have to tell you that some of the little ones jumped right on red tricycles and had a great time this afternoon.

GRACE: Do they seem happy, Jack?

DOWNEY: They do. They arrived very tired, I would have to say somewhat dirty. They`re not used to riding on a bus, so there was a lot of difficulty sometimes with the stability of the children. But the children are wonderful. I have to admire them for their resilience and what they`re going through.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../25/ng.01.html


I just happened to be on that web page grabbing another quote.

[xray ra]

Thanks Katy: I was going crazy looking for the post.!!! I knew I saw/read something about it.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by lotty [*]Hi Walton

Did the courts ever appoint new UEP Trustees? Just curious.
IMO Sure puts you between a rock and a hard place if you are trying to stay legit. with Bruce Wisan and in Warren's good graces too. JMO/IMO [/*]

Hey Lotty

This is the UEP website:

http://www.ueptrust.com/

There are links to the advisory board and the court rulings on the left side of the site.

[KatyDid]

lots of articles about UEP from different news sources condensed at this site:

http://www.childbrides.org/UEP.html

scroll down the page....the most recent information is at the bottom of the page.


The most recent article at the site:


Lawsuits, taxes, bills dominate UEP report
By Ben Winslow
Deseret Morning News
Originally published Wednesday, January 30, 2008


Lawsuits, taxes, big bills — but some progress is being made in the Fundamentalist LDS communities of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz. A new report filed in Salt Lake City's 3rd District Court details the efforts of the court-appointed special fiduciary to reform the United Effort Plan Trust, the FLDS Church's $110 million real estate holdings arm. The Jan. 23 report is an update to the judge who is in charge of the UEP Trust. In 2005, the courts took control of the UEP Trust amid allegations that polygamous sect leader Warren Jeffs and other top FLDS officials had mismanaged it. The court-ordered reforms are changing the landscape of the border towns, but it is not coming easily. In his report, fiduciary Bruce Wisan detailed the numerous lawsuits the UEP Trust is involved in, the painful efforts to collect taxes and pay bills. "Due to the difficulties of selling Trust property, the Trust is now experiencing a serious cash crunch," Wisan wrote. "As a result, the Trust has been unable to pay outstanding professional fees owing to the Fiduciary's accounting firm and the Fiduciary's Utah law firm." Lawsuits dominate the 300-plus page report. The UEP Trust is being sued by Elissa Wall, the child bride who was the star witness in the criminal case against Warren Jeffs. There is also litigation over property in an FLDS enclave in Canada, against Hildale and Colorado City over subdividing property, and a lawsuit over a modular home.

[lotty]

Originally posted by KatyDid [*]

Hey Lotty

This is the UEP website:

http://www.ueptrust.com/

There are links to the advisory board and the court rulings on the left side of the site. [/*]

TY! TY! You have saved me a lot of time...have to go back to work now, but I will look it over this evening.

[Ladyhawk]

Originally posted by Lyndawitha"Y [*]

I could be wrong here, but recall the RED is significant as worn by evil persons..Hence that story of the Scarlet Letter placed on the clothing of people deemed Bad, Evil, Sinners..

Anyone else think this is true..souns plausible?

LMS [/*]

In this article on the guides put together for the foster caregivers, is the explanation for not wearing the color red.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5731553.html

[walton]

http://myeldorado.net/

Looks like Merrill Jessop is gonna be one of "those" dads that I was talking about earlier. He has been getting visits from his lawyer Danny Hurley.

Did anyone notice if Merrill was one those waiting to get their DNA tested? Or is he more worried about the land?

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Originally posted by Ladyhawk [*]

In this article on the guides put together for the foster caregivers, is the explanation for not wearing the color red.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5731553.html [/*]

Thanks for that article..interesting reading..I very well could be confusing the "Scarlet Letter" example from the history of the Quakers or some sect/religious group from the old country.

Anyway, don't you just the these lawyers quoting the constitution however don't wish to live by the "Laws of the Land"?? It just ruffles my feathers when any "People' claim certain rights but disregard the rights to enforce the law! It's rediculous to me that they (FLDA) have not been held accountable for their ways and especially when their flock is brow beaten into submission or dumped out like garbage for the outside world to care for and support!

In my way of thinking, in order to qualify for certain waivers and exemptions one ( whether 1 individual, company, charity, or group) has to submit proof, accounting and accepting responsbilities for their descision and can't cry foul when they break the rules and laws of the land! How a handful of self proclaimed Profits can rule, judge, decide for thousands upon thousands of people who MUST do their bidding or be shunned, punished, confined and even worse excommunicated from their home, parents, sibblings,friends all in the name of who?? a mortal man who thinks he's God on Earth and should never be questioned..really in truly..what century do these peole live in?

Sorry, to sound biggotted, but My sense of this mentality really offends my reasoning!

LMS

[walton]

grammybear

I know this has to be a hard time for you and the LDS Church. I appreciate what President Hinckley was able to do concerning the Mountain Meadows Massacre issues. I appreciate that they finally recognized the issues concerning the Native American during that Massacre.

I appreciate the fact that Elder Cook has said that this is a time for the people of LDS faith to address the questions that people have concerning the Church.

And after posting with me for so long grammy you know I have questions.

Why did they feel the need to "marry" those young/old brides? Why couldn't they "take care of them" without the benefits of marriage?
Settlers crossed many other states and they didn't feel the need to "marry the widows".
The history proves that they even married women who were not single or widowed. (Parley Pratt for one)

Future Polygamy is one Revelation away isn't it? If the current Prophet or even a future Prophet had a "vision" that said Polygamy should be practiced wouldn't those that are true believers of the Church follow the Prophets word?

Are there or are there not gestures made during these Sacred ceremonies that go back to the day of Joseph Smiths Blood Atonement speach?

You said that the LDS are not the only ones that practiced Polygamy. Could you tell me what other people practiced Polygamy on U.S. soil back then?

When the "cult expert" was on stand he mentioned that the practice of marrying young girls started with Warren Jeffs. It didn't start there did it grammy? Rulon himself married young girls. And so did Prophets before him.

Again grammy I really really do appreciate your point of view on these issues.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Originally posted by walton [*]grammybear

I know this has to be a hard time for you and the LDS Church. I appreciate what President Hinckley was able to do concerning the Mountain Meadows Massacre issues. I appreciate that they finally recognized the issues concerning the Native American during that Massacre.

I appreciate the fact that Elder Cook has said that this is a time for the people of LDS faith to address the questions that people have concerning the Church.

And after posting with me for so long grammy you know I have questions.

Why did they feel the need to "marry" those young/old brides? Why couldn't they "take care of them" without the benefits of marriage?
Settlers crossed many other states and they didn't feel the need to "marry the widows".
The history proves that they even married women who were not single or widowed. (Parley Pratt for one)

Future Polygamy is one Revelation away isn't it? If the current Prophet or even a future Prophet had a "vision" that said Polygamy should be practiced wouldn't those that are true believers of the Church follow the Prophets word?

Are there or are there not gestures made during these Sacred ceremonies that go back to the day of Joseph Smiths Blood Atonement speach?

You said that the LDS are not the only ones that practiced Polygamy. Could you tell me what other people practiced Polygamy on U.S. soil back then?

When the "cult expert" was on stand he mentioned that the practice of marrying young girls started with Warren Jeffs. It didn't start there did it grammy? Rulon himself married young girls. And so did Prophets before him.

Again grammy I really really do appreciate your point of view on these issues. [/*]

I respectfully need to ask us to look at "Polygamy".."Arranged Marriages"..and the wholesale placing kids ( 13 yr old girls) with old men ....There are many differences..I can't condone any of these practices but as for Polygamy I can't condem it IF it is done with conscenting adults..as for the other two..both practices are not done considering the individual's will and conscent..so not in my mind acceptable.

I have first hand seen the damages caused by "Family Arranged Marriages" and those young people have ended up being totally dysfunctional..to the point of attempting suicide.It is a very old practice done by many religions..and in the modern age ( at least in a free society!) not acceptable to those involved! Especially is they have been brought up in our society..the old country's ways are not applicable..We have all heard about the murders..better known as "Honour Killings"..is the throughback to that belief. So sad isn't it? ( My kids grew up with these kids)..so no personal involvement..but an indirect one!

LMS

[walton]

http://gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr...-updates-from/


2:57 p.m. - The FLDS generally expels members who engage in extramarital sex, the religious expert testifies.

In his experience, he says under questioning, parents would not approach a girl balking at marriage by telling her she will go to hell or have to leave the community.

But there could be some spiritual consequences discussed with the female, he says.

"Basically, they're into matchmaking," the expert says.

The community will say, "We think it's a good match," he says.

It's a new phenomenon to have girls marrying at a very young age, the expert says, and it probably originated with Warren Jeffs, a now-imprisoned FLDS spiritual leader. Most people would say Jeffs is still the FLDS leader, the expert says.

[walton]

From the same link:
3:11 p.m. - A child's attorney asks the religious expert whether he's saying that differences exist among sect members and their beliefs.

"You cannot treat them all the same. They're not homogeneous," the religious expert says.

The 20,000 FLDS members will probably always recognize a single prophet, but how much they adhere to the prophet's teachings just depends, the expert says.

The attorney asks whether the expert has heard of "lying for the Lord."

"There are times when they can be deceptive - basically, when they feel their survival is at stake," the expert says.

The FLDS has been subject to persecution, he says: Law enforcement officers have come in and asked the children, "Who is your mommy, and who is your daddy?" When the children answered, then mommy and daddy went to jail for bigamy.

So, he says, the children are taught not to be forthcoming about who their parents are.

The child's attorney asks about the bed in the temple, an item mentioned in many news reports.

The bed is there, the expert says, because the FLDS members might fast, and when hundreds of people fast, there might be incidences of fainting.

To his knowledge, he says, no sex has occurred in the temple.

3:21 p.m. - An attorney for parents objects to the line of questioning about Jeffs, noting that, "He's in jail somewhere."

It turns out that Jeffs is the father of the child the attorney is representing.

Another child's attorney asks: Isn't it true that Mr. Jeffs not only encourages marriage between older men and underage girls, but he also participates in it himself - a 40-year-old who marries underage girls?

It's not a case of some sort of "leering" yen for underage girls, the expert says. Instead, what probably happens is that Jeffs sees that a girl has reached adulthood as defined by the community, and then he offers the girl the opportunity for marriage.

Does he offer that opportunity to girls as young as 14? the attorney said.

Laughter breaks out.

"I don't have personal knowledge" of every offer he's made," the expert says. Jeffs has recommended younger girls than his predecessors did for marriage, he says.

How young? the attorney asks.

"Thirteen is the youngest he's recommended," the expert says.

The FLDS members believe they have a sacred responsibility to help all the children of God come down from their state of "pre-mortality" so that they can have the chance to go to heaven, he says.

"They believe that having children is their sacred calling," the expert says.

[walton]

3:40 p.m. - A father's attorney asks the expert witness on religion: What do you know of a "house of hiding" mentioned in some documents?

The FLDS has been persecuted at times in its 180-year history, the expert says, so it has had to have places for people to go to hide out. But, he says, if authorities were seeking a child molester among the FLDS, then the other members would not be prone to help him.

The judge moves the civil hearing along by calling for questions from the mothers' attorneys.

"Obviously, we're not going to get through by 4 o'clock, but I still hope to get through by sundown," the judge says.

Are FLDS members not living in a setting like at the YFZ Ranch more involved in the outside world? says the first mothers' attorney to question the expert.

No, generally, they are very insular, the religious expert says. About 60 percent of the sect members are polygamists, he says.

Conceiving, bearing and rearing children is considered the most sacred responsibility for the FLDS, so couples take great care in the rearing of their children, he says.

[walton]

Who is this expert?

William John Walsh a Mormon scholar who has written many articles: Scroll towards the bottom to find the articles he has written.

http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai049.html

What is Fair? http://www.fairlds.org/faq.html

What is FAIR?
FAIR is a non-profit corporation that is dedicated to helping people deal with issues related to anti-Mormonism.

What does the name FAIR stand for?
FAIR is an acronym for Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research. Since most people can't remember that name because it is so long and difficult, they just call it FAIR. There is a media organization also known as FAIR but they are not related to us in any way.

What does the word "apologetic" mean?
The word "apologetic" is not commonly used in the LDS community and may be unfamiliar to you. The word literally means "in defense of the faith." It is not talking about apologizing to anyone or being sorry for something.

Now why would a Mormon scholar get on stand and talk about the practices of the FLDS Church?

[walton]

http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/

CPS rejected expert's help
John Walsh read my story about the tip sheet given to Texas Child Protective Services workers to educate them about FLDS ways.

Walsh is a religious studies expert whose areas of specialty include the LDS Church and fundamentalist Mormons, in particular the FLDS. He testified during a two-day hearing in which a Texas judge decided 437 FLDS children shoud stay in state custody. He lives in Texas.

But none of that mattered awhit, apparently, to the Texas agency responsible for looking out for the children's best interests.
After reading the tip sheet story, Walsh contacted me by email and said he had offered his services, free of charge, to CPS and the State Bar of Texas before the 14-day hearing took place.

''I told them I was willing to help any of the 500 lawyers involved who felt they didn't have enough understanding about fundamentalist Mormonism and the FLDS,'' he said.






Maybe they understood only too well. jmo

[walton]

Originally posted by grammybear [*] **snipped** President Hinckley did a lot of good deeds not just for the church but society. He was a wonderful man and lived life just as he taught.

I cannot comment on the hand gestures because it is to sacred to me to talk about with people outside of our religion. We do not even talk about these things outside of the temple. It is total respect for our Lord and Savior.

I do not have all the answers and neither does a lot of people but I can tell you that for me I totally try to live my life the way that Jesus did by showing compassion and concern for everybody. I try to treat people like I want to be treated. It is not just about my religion it is also about the person I am.

jmoo [/*]

I agree with you about President Hinckley.

And I respect your comment on the hand gestures.

And I really must say grammy that I appreciate and respect your input.
Thank you.

[walton]

Originally posted by grammybear [*]I do not agree with a lot that the expert had to say. If these people are lying to themselves knowing full well that these children are forced into marriages. They justify their actions by saying it is all about religion. I think it is very sad that one man has total say over whatever happens to all those lives. Just from the Jeffs trial we know that Jeffs did make these young girls go into these marriages. Infact he used the threat of eternal damnation if these girls did not do what he told them to do. No matter how you pretty up the words the threats are there.
From what I have read about this group women and children are property to the men and their land means more to them then their families.

As we go through life we have to adapt to changes all the time. It is fine that these women dress in such an old fashioned way, but what they do to their family is very barbaric and should not be tolerated.

IMO they are using religion for their own greed selfishness and control of lives around themselves.

jmoo [/*]

I totally agree with you.

[LLaFren]

Grammybear, I sincerely hope you know that I mean no disrespect at all to you or the Morman religion. My main focus was meant to be that with all the offers of help the Mainstreet Church seemed to be the most logical to help the children, since the members of that Church could show (lack of a better term) how the teachings have been changed to suit those who would twist them for their own purposes.

My feelings and experience say that for me to connect with someone, we must have something in common, something to build a bridge.

I know I would be completely out of my depth with these children having been raised in a fundamentalist religion and being a practicing non-denominationist.

The closest I can come to knowing anything about the Church of Latter Saints is that Donny Osmond can still make me swoon

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Originally posted by walton [*]http://gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr...-updates-from/


2:57 p.m. - The FLDS generally expels members who engage in extramarital sex, the religious expert testifies.

In his experience, he says under questioning, parents would not approach a girl balking at marriage by telling her she will go to hell or have to leave the community.

But there could be some spiritual consequences discussed with the female, he says.

"Basically, they're into matchmaking," the expert says.

The community will say, "We think it's a good match," he says.

It's a new phenomenon to have girls marrying at a very young age, the expert says, and it probably originated with Warren Jeffs, a now-imprisoned FLDS spiritual leader. Most people would say Jeffs is still the FLDS leader, the expert says. [/*]

I am in no way casting blame on you..as I understand that your are only reporting what was said or perported to be...but i do have a few remarks!

It is soooo dis-engenuous to say they don't force youngsters to marry anyone..but to council in such as way to say, they are destined.or it's God's will..and If you don't you are going to HELL!..What's the difference when one says, you don;t have to do it..but IF you don;t you will goo to HELL..or worse be exported out of the community away from her parents, sibblings, and anyother family to fend for themselves!//now one has to keep in mind that this is being feed to a youngin' who has absolutely no idea other than what has been preached to them since BIRTH..Is that freedom??? NOT...These kids have noidea what else to do..and know nothing of self-esteme..Goodness. just look at kids of today, in open society..they have a far more exposure and undesrtanding yet even then make huge misguided descisions.

Actually, as a Medical person, I have to wonder how they aren't plagued with the inbreeding phenomena??Is there are person that keeps track of these things? A very scrry thought!

I hope this DNA testing indicates something..at least that all these kids are not more related than we thought? Very scrarry business don't ya think?For them to sy no one is forced to do wnything..is so untrue..

LMS

P.S. Just had a thought..Maybe they control who breeds with who, because they KNOW about interbreeding problems???

[emdragon]

I have my own opinion on the LDS based on my own Christianity I can not see it as anything but a cult... all bet a very long lasting and consistent cult.

I have HUGE issues with the Book or Mormon and the Golden Tablets and how the story came to be.. I have problems with the secrecy involved in the faith.

I do not have a problem understanding how the polygamy came about and I understand it. It was a time of persecution and most of the men were being killed, there had to be a way to repopulate and to do that with only a few remaining men and to do it within the belief and teaching of the Bible they felt they had to be married.. I actually have no problem at all with that history of the Church.

I can go on and on about what I believe are the real concerns with the LDS but I want you grammy to understand that even though i see Mormonism as a cult I also respect and admire immensely their priority of family and let me be the first to say-I may not agree with your faith but I can see the good that has come from it, I see strong families, good morals and work ethics and no matter what those things are impressive and should be commended... You all are doing something right.

I will never forget Jim Jones, Koresh,Lundgren to name a few and I have studied a lot about cults and even if I say in my opinion Mormonism is a cult-be clear I do not mean in the same way as those groups named above or the FLDS.