Week End Thread 4-19 and 4-20

[KatyDid]

Not on the Internet yet, ut the judge has just ruled the court will keep the children from the polygamist compound. Will post link when it is available.

[Details]

Whoo hoo!



So glad to hear it. Maybe they'll get a chance at a life.

[StickyBeak]

Ty Katy, just out of my comprehension. I am thankful the courts concerns are with the children. JMO

[FrankieBones1]

Originally posted by KatyDid [*]Not on the Internet yet, ut the judge has just ruled the court will keep the children from the polygamist compound. Will post link when it is available. [/*]

I see this unfolding, live on Nancy Grace's show. I'm so happy they are getting to the bottom of this sect and the abuse.

[KatyDid]

The judge also ordered DNA tests be done on all 416 children.

[Details]

As I see it, even in the absolute worst case - Texas folds, the cult gets the kids back, all goes back to where it was - and I don't think this is what will happen - every day the children spend out with some freedom continues to teach them how many lies they have been taught of the outside world, every minute teaches them that there is an alternative, every minute teaches them that if they chose, they could call for help, and it might come. That's something they wouldn't have back behind cult walls.

[KatyDid]

Breaking news banner at top of page here, but no story yet.

http://www.cnn.com/

[Details]

Oh, I can't wait for the DNA in this case. How many of the children will be found to be the child of another child. That will be something very interesting.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by asurvivor [*]WOO HOO!! Praise the Lord! Of cource this does not mean they will keep them very long but it is a start [/*]

They will have them long enough to complete the DNA tests. That in itself is HUGE, IMO.

I am so THRILLED with this judge's ruling.

She is a hero!!

[KatyDid]

Larry King Live covering the breaking news now.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by FrankieBones1 [*]
I see this unfolding, live on Nancy Grace's show. I'm so happy they are getting to the bottom of this sect and the abuse. [/*]

Me too Frankie!!

It has taken over 100 years and finally Texas has the courage to step up and do the right thing for these women and children.

I am lovin' every second of it.

[spydernweb2006]

Its now also on Yahoo news:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080419/...Sbx6SmN.is0NUE

Hopefully once the DNA is done they can address which child belongs to which Parents and then deal with each family.

JMHO

Hugs,

Spyder

[StickyBeak]

On AOL

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/polygam...7?ecid=RSS0001

Ty Texas!

Originally posted by KatyDid [*]The judge also ordered DNA tests be done on all 416 children. [/*]

And the parents!

I don't think this case is going away soon.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by wandering [*]And the parents!

I don't think this case is going away soon. [/*]

I don't either wandering.

[Carol25]

I heard some of the women said they would do anything to get their children back. They would leave the compound, take parenting classes, take tests, live in the outside world and send their children to public schools...what ever it took.

What hope this could be for even the mothers!

[VC2]

ok, its no problem taking DNA from the children but how in the world are they going to get paternity tests and maternity tests? Sure many women might agree to it, but does the order insist that every man and woman give their blood/saliva?

Unless each male and female does it will be a mess. No good getting just the moms dna.

I feel very sorry for many of the women. I remember the soft voiced one who asked the reporter if he knew what sacred was, and then went on to say it is heaven on earth and the life they have is heaven on earth. She believed it wholeheartedly. Many if not most grew up in the cult, be it colorado, utah or texas. They never had a chance to learn anything else and while it might not be technical brainwashing it sure is in terms of lifestyle. A child indoctrinated in anything by the people they love will take that as the norm.

Has anyone heard if the DNA order forces all the men to give dna? and all the women?

[VC2]

Originally posted by Swarovski [*]

As I understand it, most, if not all these women have attys. representing them. The proof is in the pudding. Let's see if the remove themselves from the compound first, and see how far they are willing to go. I would love nothing better than to see this women emancipated. What disturbs me at the moment, is they have returned to their compound and the cycle of creation could begin anew. [/*]

swarovski, it takes more than a few weeks to undo years of belief. They have no real choice when any independent thought was stifled, and they believe that contact with the outside world/government means eternal hellfire. They take "abuse" as normal because they know nothing else.

Yuo have to remember the women are victims to. They just dont realize it How are they meant to know the life they grew up in, and their parents grew up in is wrong when its taught that its the way to heaven?

I wish Texas would have had each woman evaluated psychologically before sending them away from the children. I don't doubt their love for the kids, just have a HUGE problem with how its expressed. They are completely subservient and with no tv or papers are not going to even see different ways.

It seems to me that of course they returned to the compound. They want their children back but also want to be home, and staying out fo the compound they were still unable to be with their kids. Its human nature to return where you feel safe.

imo

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Carol25 [*]I heard some of the women said they would do anything to get their children back. They would leave the compound, take parenting classes, take tests, live in the outside world and send their children to public schools...what ever it took.

What hope this could be for even the mothers! [/*]

Hiya Carol

I hadn't heard this. It is wonderful news if these women will leave the abuse they have suffered.

[awareness]

Im hoping the Mom's will actually take those steps and hopefully eventually be reunited with the kids. But they have to sincerely do that.

I just hope the judge is careful about the law in these cases... I wouldnt want her rulings to get thrown out on appeal and have them sue the gov't and win money.

Im very glad the kids may have a fighting chance... but this has got to be done carefully for the best outcome for them.

JMO/IMO

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by VC2 [*]

swarovski, it takes more than a few weeks to undo years of belief. They have no real choice when any independent thought was stifled, and they believe that contact with the outside world/government means eternal hellfire. They take "abuse" as normal because they know nothing else.

Yuo have to remember the women are victims to. They just dont realize it How are they meant to know the life they grew up in, and their parents grew up in is wrong when its taught that its the way to heaven?

I wish Texas would have had each woman evaluated psychologically before sending them away from the children. I don't doubt their love for the kids, just have a HUGE problem with how its expressed. They are completely subservient and with no tv or papers are not going to even see different ways.

It seems to me that of course they returned to the compound. They want their children back but also want to be home, and staying out fo the compound they were still unable to be with their kids. Its human nature to return where you feel safe.

imo [/*]

I recently read a paper written by a psychologist who has worked with some of the women who have left polygamy. He wrote that it takes three years for these women to 'deprogram'. Even after that, they still have some problems, just not as severe.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by AnnieBean [*]

Thank God. Hooray for this judge. [/*]

This judge and Texas LE had the courage Utah and Arizona have not been able to muster for over 100 years to protect these women and children.

[walton]

Originally posted by Swarovski [*]

As I understand it, most, if not all these women have attys. representing them. The proof is in the pudding. Let's see if the remove themselves from the compound first, and see how far they are willing to go. I would love nothing better than to see this women emancipated. What disturbs me at the moment, is they have returned to their compound and the cycle of creation could begin anew. [/*]

In the 1953 Raid the men were hauled off. They were given jail sentences. The jail sentences were short and those in Politics were getting so much heat that they let some of these guys out early with the promises of not practicing Polygamy.

They didn't stop. They kept on. Hence here we are today.

I am hoping that whispers of Promises are followed thru with
a Big Texan Brother.

http://extras.sltrib.com/specials/po...aidaccount.asp

[evalles]

Originally posted by maryhaze [*]even if these women get away from the cult & get their kids back, renounce everything that the old pervs have drummed into their heads, what are they gonna do? i don't think they have any real skills other than housekeeping & having kids. not much of an education either. i feel bad for all the victims of this bunch. [/*]

That ranch is worth over $21 million and there are other holdings.
Put the offenders in jail, give the women the property and cash ( the guys won't need it where there going and the victims should be compensated anyway.) These women are victims too. Have an on-site therapist and give them their children back on the condition that they not let these men come back into their lives and that they abandon polygamy. There could be a happy ending, but I don't see it happening as long as CPS is involved.

Originally posted by evalles [*]

That ranch is worth over $21 million and there are other holdings.
Put the offenders in jail, give the women the property and cash ( the guys won't need it where there going and the victims should be compensated anyway.) These women are victims too. Have an on-site therapist and give them their children back on the condition that they not let these men come back into their lives and that they abandon polygamy. There could be a happy ending, but I don't see it happening as long as CPS is involved. [/*]

What else would you suggest? CPS is all they've got.

Originally posted by KatyDid [*]

Me too Frankie!!

It has taken over 100 years and finally Texas has the courage to step up and do the right thing for these women and children.

I am lovin' every second of it. [/*]

i hope they do something about it in the other states too. they need to break up all of the FLDS cults. they need to save all those children. the women need to be saved too.

lets all say prayer's for the victims.

Originally posted by Sumanadevii [*]Again, I salute the state of Texas for a job well done! [/*]

Originally posted by Swarovski [*]

A courageous judge too. [/*]

Originally posted by jenny_92808 [*]This is great news! some of the things that have really bothered me are:

1) Young girls (13 yr old & up) are given to older men to have sex with, so the children can have children of the middle aged men. This is ILLEGAL AND WRONG, PERIOD!!!

2) The girls/women are only one of the multiple wives of the middle aged man and are in a subservient role, in otherwise a slave to the man and the mans culture of ruling the females in ANY way they choose. This is ILLEGAL AND WRONG, PERIOD!!!

3) The men of this society that enslaves and abuses the children and the woman, DISCAR THE BOYS and boot them out when they become a certain age so that the math adds up to allow them to continue to have multiple wives/children wives/slaves. THIS IS WRONG, PERIOD!!! [/*]

and there is so much more that these sick men are doing to these kids & women. they need to be stopped.

Originally posted by VC2 [*]ok, its no problem taking DNA from the children but how in the world are they going to get paternity tests and maternity tests? Sure many women might agree to it, but does the order insist that every man and woman give their blood/saliva?

Unless each male and female does it will be a mess. No good getting just the moms dna.

I feel very sorry for many of the women. I remember the soft voiced one who asked the reporter if he knew what sacred was, and then went on to say it is heaven on earth and the life they have is heaven on earth. She believed it wholeheartedly. Many if not most grew up in the cult, be it colorado, utah or texas. They never had a chance to learn anything else and while it might not be technical brainwashing it sure is in terms of lifestyle. A child indoctrinated in anything by the people they love will take that as the norm.

Has anyone heard if the DNA order forces all the men to give dna? and all the women? [/*]

yep all men has to have dna testing too but what about the men who left the ranch after the raid ? how will they find all of them ? i bet some of them went into hiding.

[LLaFren]

Here we go guys...

Did anyone else catch ET last night? Scary, no voice inflections at all by the "ladies" of the ranch.

They're Stepford wives. I think they've learned to survive, the only way they know how. It will take time...

[walton]

Do you think that "Rosie" is the one who called Texas?

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1...271944,00.html

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. — For hours, Flora Jessop would be on the phone with "Sarah" trying to figure out where the little girl was and if she was OK.
The girl first called the anti-polygamy activist on March 30, claiming she was nearly 16, pregnant, in a bad marriage and planned to move to the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch in Texas.




I don't.

believe me when i say they will & do have proof of child rape & other abuse against the children & women. you will see.

there's also evidence of welfare fraud,
false imprisonment, kidnapping & bigamy. these are all crime's that are against the law & they can be charged with. they are breaking the law by doing these things. there is evidence that prove these things. also brainwashing but not sure if that is a real crime they can be charged with or not.

[walton]

There is not a doubt in my mind that those abuses have occured.

There is not a doubt in my mind that they have proof.


I don't believe that Rosie made those calls to Texas.

Originally posted by walton [*]
There is not a doubt in my mind that those abuses have occurred.

There is not a doubt in my mind that they have proof.

I don't believe that Rosie made those calls to Texas. [/*]

I've read, Numerous abuses, as well as water torture to the babies. The men beating the babies and making them cry, then putting their head under the running water, and continue beating the baby putting it's head under the running water until the child is so exhausted it stops crying...causing the baby/child to always FEAR the father..

Has anyone seen the 12 pictures of the women on the Today Show, NBC, web site, today? they really shocked me.

There was the same blank, robotic look on each of their faces...
no real tears....no nothing...a blank canvas.... JMO

Originally posted by johnielee333 [*]
believe me when i say they will & do have proof of child RAPE & other ABUSE against the children & women. you will see.

there's also evidence of welfare fraud,

false imprisonment, kidnapping & bigamy.

these are all crime's that are against the law & they can be charged with. they are breaking the law by doing these things.
there is evidence that prove these things.
also brainwashing but not sure if that is a real crime they can be charged with or not. [/*]

WHY has this been allowed to continue so many years?

so many Laws being broken.......as well as fraud....

Isn't America all about HUMAN RIGHTS?.....jmo

[giddyupalw]

Originally posted by Devotion [*]

I've read, Numerous abuses, as well as water torture to the babies. The men beating the babies and making them cry, then putting their head under the running water, and continue beating the baby putting it's head under the running water until the child is so exhausted it stops crying...causing the baby/child to always FEAR the father..

Has anyone seen the 12 pictures of the women on the Today Show, NBC, web site, today? they really shocked me.

There was the same blank, robotic look on each of their faces...
no real tears....no nothing...a blank canvas.... JMO [/*]

I never read this!! My goodness... the more that comes out the worse it gets!!!

Originally posted by maryhaze [*]even if these women get away from the cult & get

their kids back, renounce everything that the old PERVS have drummed into their heads, what are they gonna do?
i don't think they have any real skills other than housekeeping & having kids.
not much of an education either.
i feel bad for all the victims of this bunch. [/*]

Haven't they ALL been drawing WELFARE?
So let them stay on welfare and live free....
let's give them 4 or 5 years to get educated and adjust.
Their movements, actions and faces tell it all......jmo

You all can me if this is a stupid question....

Why the DNA tests? Do they think that the wives fool around outside of thier "marriage"?

What am I missing? lol