April 18, April 19

[Marcia3]

Good morning everybody!

For those of you who just had the earthquake, give us a shout out and let us know you're okay!

What's on the docket for today's discussion? Did we wear out the "other father" speculations sufficiently yesterday?

[SavannahStar]

Mornin' Marcia! Thank you for starting our daily thread!

I'm in the middle of a bunch of stuff here today but will be back!

[Marcia3]

Morning, SS! Hopefully I'll be here when you get back!

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Marcia3 [*]Good morning everybody!

For those of you who just had the earthquake, give us a shout out and let us know you're okay!

What's on the docket for today's discussion? Did we wear out the "other father" speculations sufficiently yesterday?

[/*]

I don't know if we wore out that discussion or the discussion wore US out. My mind is still in a flux contemplating how many more cans of worms could be opened if Maria was pregnant by some guy other than Cesar.

I don't recall specifically where I read this - it may have been in the comments section of the other blog - but someone was speculating that the fire pit/burial pit had somewhat of a look of a shrine when it was first seen.

Did anyone else read that? I looked back at some of the photos & saw one of the undisturbed ground with all the cinder blocks around it & the only thing that caught my eye was that the blocks were placed in a rectangular fashion.

Having outdoor fire pits is not common in this area, so I can't recall seeing others & how they were arranged, but my thinking is that if I did have a large outdoor fire pit, it would make more sense to me to arrange cinder blocks in a circular fashion than a square or rectangular one.

What do y'all think?

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by Mimi428 [*]

I don't know if we wore out that discussion or the discussion wore US out. My mind is still in a flux contemplating how many more cans of worms could be opened if Maria was pregnant by some guy other than Cesar.

I don't recall specifically where I read this - it may have been in the comments section of the other blog - but someone was speculating that the fire pit/burial pit had somewhat of a look of a shrine when it was first seen.

Did anyone else read that? I looked back at some of the photos & saw one of the undisturbed ground with all the cinder blocks around it & the only thing that caught my eye was that the blocks were placed in a rectangular fashion.

Having outdoor fire pits is not common in this area, so I can't recall seeing others & how they were arranged, but my thinking is that if I did have a large outdoor fire pit, it would make more sense to me to arrange cinder blocks in a circular fashion than a square or rectangular one.

What do y'all think? [/*]

Morning, Mimi! I hear ya, that discussion just about did me in yesterday since it started a whole bunch of chain reaction thoughts for me...

I don't live in an area where fire pits are common. Most of the ones I see are the pits you buy at a hardware store and just set it up on your patio or deck. In fact, I would venture to say that my neighborhood association doesn't allow a fire pit such as the one CAL built to be set up in our neighborhood.

I'm not sure about the shrine perspective, but if a circular construction is more commonplace, then a rectangular setup would almost seem to imitate a grave. Could that be considered close to a shrine?

Very good question, though, and one that I remember coming up a while ago but it was not answered IRRC.

No shrine and Cesar is the father. I mean it was his DNA. He was never the father.

JMO

Morning

[strick10]

Originally posted by Marcia3 [*]Good morning everybody!

For those of you who just had the earthquake, give us a shout out and let us know you're okay!

What's on the docket for today's discussion? Did we wear out the "other father" speculations sufficiently yesterday?

[/*]

Morning. This board never wears out discussing speculations.....

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box [*]No shrine and Cesar is the father. I mean it was his DNA. He was never the father.

JMO

Morning [/*]

You've lost me Squawk. Okay I can see the fire pit not looking like a shrine. Someone probably is trying to make the firepit look almost respectful in their mind. We don't know if the baby does belong to CAL or not as we haven't heard anything legit on this. "I mean it was his DNA" I don't get this part of your post.

[crymeariver2006]

As I recall, there was some psychologist type on one of the shows (Greta, Nancy Grace....) who said that the pit looked like a shrine.

I also made the comment early on, in one of my theories (pre rug, of course) that I felt that Cesar was in love with Maria and to me, that explained the burial right under Christina's nose (so to speak), in the backyard of his home, and that it appeared "darn near shrine like".

There are/were too many places Cesar could have placed the body and the chances are great that Maria would never have been found.

IMO, it was almost like he wanted her found. If that makes any sense.

All JMO

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Squawk Box [*]No shrine and Cesar is the father. I mean it was his DNA. He was never the father.

JMO

Morning [/*]

What was his DNA? Have the forensics or paternity test been completed and posted somewhere?

[strick10]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006 [*]As I recall, there was some psychologist type on one of the shows (Greta, Nancy Grace....) who said that the pit looked like a shrine.

I also made the comment early on, in one of my theories (pre rug, of course) that I felt that Cesar was in love with Maria and to me, that explained the burial right under Christina's nose (so to speak), in the backyard of his home, and that it appeared "darn near shrine like".

There are/were too many places Cesar could have placed the body and the chances are great that Maria would never have been found.

IMO, it was almost like he wanted her found. If that makes any sense.

All JMO [/*]

I've never looked at the fire pit quite that way. I figured the blocks were placed around the pit to help keep the fire isolated but the way the blocks were placed on top of the ground seemed like kind of a weird way to set them. I figured you'd have to have at least part of the blocks buried in the ground for the containment to be fully effective. I noticed that the block didn't have that much soot on them for them to have been in place for all the bon fires they had.

[SavannahStar]

Shrine.......nah.....

Especially if "one of those psychologist types" on a TH show suggested it. I detest those people.....pet peeve of mine.

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by SavannahStar [*]Shrine.......nah.....

Especially if "one of those psychologist types" on a TH show suggested it. I detest those people.....pet peeve of mine.

[/*]

LOL, you and I agree on that one! "Drive-by diagnosis."

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by strick10 [*]

Morning. This board never wears out discussing speculations..... [/*]

I suspect you're right about that! We do know how to chew on a topic, don't we?

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006 [*]As I recall, there was some psychologist type on one of the shows (Greta, Nancy Grace....) who said that the pit looked like a shrine.

I also made the comment early on, in one of my theories (pre rug, of course) that I felt that Cesar was in love with Maria and to me, that explained the burial right under Christina's nose (so to speak), in the backyard of his home, and that it appeared "darn near shrine like".

There are/were too many places Cesar could have placed the body and the chances are great that Maria would never have been found.

IMO, it was almost like he wanted her found. If that makes any sense.

All JMO [/*]

I know I'm not alone with this question, but I have always wondered why CAL didn't just take Maria's body to the ocean? It just seems so much "cleaner" than how he chose to handle things.

JMO

[Mitzy2]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006 [*]As I recall, there was some psychologist type on one of the shows (Greta, Nancy Grace....) who said that the pit looked like a shrine.

I also made the comment early on, in one of my theories (pre rug, of course) that I felt that Cesar was in love with Maria and to me, that explained the burial right under Christina's nose (so to speak), in the backyard of his home, and that it appeared "darn near shrine like".

There are/were too many places Cesar could have placed the body and the chances are great that Maria would never have been found.

IMO, it was almost like he wanted her found. If that makes any sense.

All JMO [/*]

One of my neighbors dug a "firepit" in their backyard and it was indeed round. Yes, why bury Maria in their backyard. There are numerous "swamp land" acres in the Camp Lejuene area so I'am told. Could CL have been so stupid as to think at some point after Maria fell off the face of the earth, he would not be looked at by LE as the prime suspect? And when LE did start focusing on him, why not move the body just like he moved Maria's car ?? So many questions ???

Originally posted by strick10 [*]

You've lost me Squawk. Okay I can see the fire pit not looking like a shrine. Someone probably is trying to make the firepit look almost respectful in their mind. We don't know if the baby does belong to CAL or not as we haven't heard anything legit on this. "I mean it was his DNA" I don't get this part of your post. [/*]

It is my opinion. There is no proof Cesar is not the father at this time either. I'm sticking to the original story. I am saying it was Cesar's DNA.

The shrine just came up out of the blue for speculation. I don't believe Cesar made a shrine.

JMO

Originally posted by crymeariver2006 [*]

What was his DNA? Have the forensics or paternity test been completed and posted somewhere?

[/*]

It will be Cesar's DNA. JMO

[martha]

Originally posted by Squawk Box [*]No shrine and Cesar is the father. I mean it was his DNA. He was never the father.

JMO

Morning [/*]

I have not been here long but what did you mean by it was his dna and he was never the father? I don;t understand that. good morning everyone hope you will all have a good day. got a lot of stuff i got to do so i will be in and out

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by martha [*] I have not been here long but what did you mean by it was his dna and he was never the father? I don;t understand that. good morning everyone hope you will all have a good day. got a lot of stuff i got to do so i will be in and out [/*]

Good morning, martha! So good to "see" you again.

Hope your day is a good one...

Originally posted by martha [*] I have not been here long but what did you mean by it was his dna and he was never the father? I don;t understand that. good morning everyone hope you will all have a good day. got a lot of stuff i got to do so i will be in and out [/*]

A father does not kill his child. It was his DNA but I will never refer to him as the "father".

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006 [*]As I recall, there was some psychologist type on one of the shows (Greta, Nancy Grace....) who said that the pit looked like a shrine.

I also made the comment early on, in one of my theories (pre rug, of course) that I felt that Cesar was in love with Maria and to me, that explained the burial right under Christina's nose (so to speak), in the backyard of his home, and that it appeared "darn near shrine like".

There are/were too many places Cesar could have placed the body and the chances are great that Maria would never have been found.

IMO, it was almost like he wanted her found. If that makes any sense.

All JMO [/*]

Thanks for the info about where the 'shrine' comment may have originated. I don't watch Nancy, whatever happens or is said on her show I end up finding out about through other sources.

One of the things I considered regarding why Cesar did not dispose of the body was not so much along the lines that he wanted her found - but that he wanted to know with certainty (for whatever reasons of his own) where she was.

Once I started pondering about the 'shrine' aspect, it brought to my mind the Mexican cultural tradition of Dia de los Muertos - Day of the Dead, which is on November 1st. I know many people of Mexican heritage who do NOT take part in the traditional celebrations of Dia de los Muertos, as is practiced in Mexico. But I also know many more who faithfully take care of the gravesites of their loved ones in ways that are not typical for those not of that culture.

Perfect example for me is seen at Ft. Sam Houston National Cemetery, in San Antonio. I take my mother several times a year to visit my stepfather's grave & while we are there we visit the gravesites of others in the family who are there. There is a woman with a Hispanic surname buried one row back from my stepfather & her family always has her gravesite elaborately decorated. It doesn't seem like it would take too much until you realize that EVERY gravesite is cleaned up & the ground cleared completely once a month, at the very least. Yet her grave - & there are plenty others like it - is thoroughly embellished with seasonal decorations, plenty of flowers & all sorts of other things.

Anyway, it did get me to wondering what Cesar's thinking might be regarding where Maria was buried. Another mystery to ponder.

JMO

I'm thinking the bodies were buried in his back yard because of a lack of time to take them somewhere else.

I think it is possible he felt they would burn to ashes so why move them?

I think he felt it would be to dangerous to move them from his back yard to someplace else under the nose of Christina and the chance he may be seen by someone else.

His solution in my opinion was to make ashes out of them.

MOO

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by Squawk Box [*]I'm thinking the bodies were buried in his back yard because of a lack of time to take them somewhere else.

I think it is possible he felt they would burn to ashes so why move them?

I think he felt it would be to dangerous to move them from his back yard to someplace else under the nose of Christina and the chance he may be seen by someone else.

His solution in my opinion was to make ashes out of them.

MOO [/*]

Makes sense to me. Even if there were feelings for Maria and Gabriel, after he killed them, IMO the objective for him would be to destroy as much evidence pointing to him as he could, and in the shortest amount of time possible.

JMO

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Squawk Box [*]I'm thinking the bodies were buried in his back yard because of a lack of time to take them somewhere else.

I think it is possible he felt they would burn to ashes so why move them?

I think he felt it would be to dangerous to move them from his back yard to someplace else under the nose of Christina and the chance he may be seen by someone else.

His solution in my opinion was to make ashes out of them.

MOO [/*]

That sounds logical to me, Squawk.

Originally posted by strick10 [*]

I've never looked at the fire pit quite that way. I figured the blocks were placed around the pit to help keep the fire isolated but the way the blocks were placed on top of the ground seemed like kind of a weird way to set them. I figured you'd have to have at least part of the blocks buried in the ground for the containment to be fully effective. I noticed that the block didn't have that much soot on them for them to have been in place for all the bon fires they had. [/*]

Strick, what do you think when looking at some pictures on how the blocks were placed? I don't see them surrounding the entire grave. It looked to me like they were in a square in the middle. There was pit extending away from them on both sides.

I have thought they were placed in a way to put a large grill over them for bbq.

I'm interested in what you think of that.

JMO

[martha]

Originally posted by Squawk Box [*]

A father does not kill his child. It was his DNA but I will never refer to him as the "father". [/*]

I see sorry I just did not understand where you were coming from. My mind is working very slow this morning. lol have a good day

Originally posted by martha [*] I see sorry I just did not understand where you were coming from. My mind is working very slow this morning. lol have a good day [/*]

[martha]

Originally posted by Marcia3 [*]

Good morning, martha! So good to "see" you again.

Hope your day is a good one... [/*]

Hi Marcia3 good to see you here today. I did not sleep much last night so not thinking very good this morning. The shots I got yesterday at the doc's offiec is breaking a lot of this mess i have up so i just know i will be better in a few day. ha have a very good day marcia3

[caejde]

But didn't Sutherland say that it appears Cesar didn't intend on burning the bodies? And that the bonfires were there to disguise where the bodies were buried? Or is it believe Sutherland only when it comes to certain aspects of the case?

[Mimi428]

I have definitely thought from the beginning that Cesar's motivation for the bonfires was to reduce the remains of Maria to ashes. I think he may have erroneously believed he could reduce everything to ashes.

And it could certainly be nothing more than an oddity that the cinder blocks were placed in rectangle around the fire pit.

Another thing I'm wondering about is when he got that large tattoo of the phoenix, rising from the ashes, put on his left arm - & why he chose that symbol in the first place.

Originally posted by SavannahStar [*]

That sounds logical to me, Squawk. [/*]

I was trying to find out some information on a case very similar to this that occurred in 1988 in Kentucky. The body was totally burned, but some teeth remained for identification. Unfortunately there is no information on the internet. I would have liked to read it. The only information I found was the memorial board and an appeal which did not have the original information in it.

Just saying..........

jmo

[caejde]

Originally posted by Mimi428 [*]I have definitely thought from the beginning that Cesar's motivation for the bonfires was to reduce the remains of Maria to ashes. I think he may have erroneously believed he could reduce everything to ashes.

And it could certainly be nothing more than an oddity that the cinder blocks were placed in rectangle around the fire pit.

Another thing I'm wondering about is when he got that large tattoo of the phoenix, rising from the ashes, put on his left arm - & why he chose that symbol in the first place. [/*]

With his tats...he would have to have had them prior to February 2007--I believe. As the Commandant of the Marine Corps came out with a new regulation that tatoo's on the arms should not extend below the bottom of the tshirt. Any Marine that already had tatoo's like this were to be photographed, annotated and in their record book. And if any Marine would have violated this new regulation, they would have been charged. So I think it's safe to say that he would have had his tats prior to any of this.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by caejde [*]But didn't Sutherland say that it appears Cesar didn't intend on burning the bodies? And that the bonfires were there to disguise where the bodies were buried? Or is it believe Sutherland only when it comes to certain aspects of the case? [/*]

I didn't remember he said that. No ulterior motive LOL.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Squawk Box [*]


Strick, what do you think when looking at some pictures on how the blocks were placed? I don't see them surrounding the entire grave. It looked to me like they were in a square in the middle. There was pit extending away from them on both sides.

I have thought they were placed in a way to put a large grill over them for bbq.

I'm interested in what you think of that.

JMO [/*]

I certainly know plenty of folks who have large bbq pits constructed in their back yards. But even the biggest wouldn't require a grill or grate the size that would be needed for that pit in Cesar's back yard. And none of them were so low. If a grill or grate had been placed over those cinder blocks, there would not have been any room underneath for the fire.

[caejde]

Originally posted by SavannahStar [*]

I didn't remember he said that. No ulterior motive LOL. [/*]

I could be wrong on what he said...since I don't have a link or anything...but I could have sworn he stated that he doesnt' believe the bodies were intentionally burned.

Originally posted by caejde [*]But didn't Sutherland say that it appears Cesar didn't intend on burning the bodies? And that the bonfires were there to disguise where the bodies were buried? Or is it believe Sutherland only when it comes to certain aspects of the case? [/*]

I have no idea why he said that. No, I don't agree with him on that if it was even said.

JMO

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Squawk Box [*]

I was trying to find out some information on a case very similar to this that occurred in 1988 in Kentucky. The body was totally burned, but some teeth remained for identification. Unfortunately there is no information on the internet. I would have liked to read it. The only information I found was the memorial board and an appeal which did not have the original information in it.

Just saying..........

jmo [/*]

But was the body burned/charred inside a pit or just burned and not buried?

'Cause there's lots of cases where bodies are intentionally burned and not buried at all.

IMO RS is more than likely correct in that it was not Cesar's intention to burn the body (bodies). I mean, aren't you one of the ones that say "LE KNOWS MORE THAN WE DO, THEY'VE SEEN ALL THE EVIDENCE"?

So, why would he be wrong about this particular thing and correct about everything else?

Just sayin'.....

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box [*]

I have no idea why he said that. No, I don't agree with him on that if it was even said.

JMO [/*]

Why would he say that then? He is LE...he does have all the facts...not us.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by caejde [*]

I could be wrong on what he said...since I don't have a link or anything...but I could have sworn he stated that he doesnt' believe the bodies were intentionally burned. [/*]

He said it. And when he did, most of us were like