Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

[John7878]

This seems to be turning into a nightmare.

I am against child abuse, but in a week of digging I haven't seen anything but speculation, so far by authorities.

And now they separate the Mothers from their children after taking them from the ranch???

I see the Mothers are starting to get their side of the story out and it looks far different that what the Texas DFPS is saying.

They said the DFPS lied to them. Somehow I think I'd believe them before the DFPS.

I wonder just how long they expect to hold kids away from parents, without finding anything??

Anyone got better information on this??
DID they find anything, cause I haven't seen anything but guessing.

I also hate to see this happen to these families, because if the authorities can do this to them, they can do it to ANYONE.

Heres whats going on in Britain:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770


News story on it:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080415/...gamist_retreat

Texas DFPS
http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Contact_Us/pios.asp

[John7878]

Wow didn't see a whole section for this, sorry.

Looks like they were ready for another Waco:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080416/...gamist_retreat


At least they didn't kill all the kids this time to "help" them.

[Carol25]

Originally posted by John7878 [*]This seems to be turning into a nightmare.

I am against child abuse, but in a week of digging I haven't seen anything but speculation, so far by authorities.

And now they separate the Mothers from their children after taking them from the ranch???

I see the Mothers are starting to get their side of the story out and it looks far different that what the Texas DFPS is saying.

They said the DFPS lied to them. Somehow I think I'd believe them before the DFPS.

I wonder just how long they expect to hold kids away from parents, without finding anything??

Anyone got better information on this??
DID they find anything, cause I haven't seen anything but guessing.

I also hate to see this happen to these families, because if the authorities can do this to them, they can do it to ANYONE.

Heres whats going on in Britain:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770


News story on it:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080415/...gamist_retreat

Texas DFPS
http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Contact_Us/pios.asp [/*]

John, I know it sounds so harsh for authorities to take the mothers away from the children but they had to if the children were going to tell them anything that that was really going on at the compound. These mothers are so brainwashed and in turn brainwash their children. That is their job. How could you interview a child when he begins to say something and mother is there to stop him, interrupt or give him the signal to be quiet or else? Didn't you see the interviews with the mothers how they wouldn't answer any questions except about "we want our children back?"
I LE is going to find out the truth (which could go either way) they need to have the freedom to ask questions and have the questions answered.
Perhaps then then they could be reunited again. I hope they can, without the person who is doing the abusing.
Wouldn't you feel better about this short time of indignity and grief for the sake of possibly hundreds of others being raped and abused?

[lonetraveler]

Originally posted by John7878 [*]This seems to be turning into a nightmare.

I am against child abuse, but in a week of digging I haven't seen anything but speculation, so far by authorities.

And now they separate the Mothers from their children after taking them from the ranch???

I see the Mothers are starting to get their side of the story out and it looks far different that what the Texas DFPS is saying.

They said the DFPS lied to them. Somehow I think I'd believe them before the DFPS.

I wonder just how long they expect to hold kids away from parents, without finding anything??

Anyone got better information on this??
DID they find anything, cause I haven't seen anything but guessing.

I also hate to see this happen to these families, because if the authorities can do this to them, they can do it to ANYONE.

Heres whats going on in Britain:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770


News story on it:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080415/...gamist_retreat

==============================================
Do you consider at least twenty pregnant, young girls among the many children taken away from that slave camp any evidence????

Texas DFPS
http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Contact_Us/pios.asp [/*]

[John7878]

Originally posted by Carol25 [*]
John, I know it sounds so harsh for authorities to take the mothers away from the children but they had to if the children were going to tell them anything that that was really going on at the compound. These mothers are so brainwashed and in turn brainwash their children. [/*]

You can say anyone in a religion is 'brain washed'.

Personally I am a Deist.

All I am saying is they have had over a week to get proof.....where the heck is it?

And if they are going to take the mothers away, then I would like to see a neutral third party in with the kids while the authorities question them.

And yes, I can see why they wouldn't want the mothers in while questioning the kids, but why remove them completely?
This has to be traumatic on the 400 kids...the ones we ALL want to protect.

The women are saying the police lied to them.
They say the girl they are looking for isn't even there. (And after over a week of looking, and still no girl, maybe the women are telling the truth.)

In the news reports, I see how they try to sensationalize what happening, but with speculation....still no proof.

My mind isn't set in stone....I just need more than a government agency's speculation that there has been a crime committed....show me the proof.

I just wonder how long the kids will be traumatized before they find out one way or the other.

I guess we'll all be waiting......

[John7878]

Originally posted by lonetraveler [*]Do you consider at least twenty pregnant, young girls among the many children taken away from that slave camp any evidence???? [/*]

Depends.

I have heard them speculate that girls were pregnant that were too young.

So where are they?

Then I have heard them say in the next news, that they can't even determine the age of the kids.

So I have a hard time deciding which time to believe what they are saying.

Are they lying that they can't tell the kids age or are they lying that the girls are too young to marry??

You tell me.....

(I just hope they don't go after Loretta Lynn and her kids.)

So, nobody here believes Carolyn Jessop.

[lotty]

Cases with minors are generally treated carefully...we will not hear as much, as we would if they were adults. Protection of the minor child is a priority. I posted the law in Texas that is being used here. I don't understand the argument about the mothers being removed from the children...if they don't remove the mothers here as the law is written. Texas will face enormous consequences from other mothers who have had their children removed in abuse investigations. If Texas allows all of the mothers to stay with the children, then they are discriminating against every other mother that has been through this already.

[John7878]

Originally posted by wandering [*]So, nobody here believes Carolyn Jessop. [/*]

I did a search on her.

She claims she was in a abusive marriage, so she left.

Unfortunately our society probably has more of that than theirs.

But I did see where she claimed that women were sent to a mental institution in Flagstaff, Arizona.

I googled to see if any women had been rescued from there, but I didn't see anything about a rescue, instead I found this:

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/Heal...=987099&page=1

"she began acting out -- and he called the cops.

She was taken to a mental institution in Flagstaff, Ariz., more than 200 miles away. The police were not interested in her side of the story, Laurene said."

The POLICE took her to the mental institution!!!!

This is getting weird.

Abuse by the church, but the police are the ones taking them away!?!??!

I'm gonna look around some more before posting.

Later--

[John7878]

Originally posted by Texanne [*] They found the bed in the church where the girls were taken by their "husbands" immediately after the ceremony. How sick is that? [/*]

Can you post a link to the article that said this?

The only one I found was the one where Authorities 'SPECULATED' why the bed was there.

[Freebird]

Originally posted by John7878 [*]Wow didn't see a whole section for this, sorry.

Looks like they were ready for another Waco:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080416/...gamist_retreat


At least they didn't kill all the kids this time to "help" them. [/*]

Probably as far as the mothers are concerned,it doesn't matter if the kids were killed or taken by CPS.The results(and pain)will be the same for the mothers--they may never see them again.

[Carol25]

Originally posted by Freebird [*]


Probably as far as the mothers are concerned,it doesn't matter if the kids were killed or taken by CPS.The results(and pain)will be the same for the mothers--they may never see them again. [/*]

What?!

[spydernweb2006]

Originally posted by Freebird [*]


Probably as far as the mothers are concerned,it doesn't matter if the kids were killed or taken by CPS.The results(and pain)will be the same for the mothers--they may never see them again. [/*]

Forgive me if I have no sympathy for these so called Mothers. These so called Mothers had every chance to help LE identify children. These so called Mothers had every chance to stand up for their abused children. These so called Mothers chose to live a lifestyle that allowed their children to be abused physcially and sexually. For me its all alot of crying for propoganda and sympathy when IMO the only people in this whole mess who deserve smpathy,empathy and consideration are the children.

ANYONE who condones a 14,15 or even 16 year old girl to have sexual relations with an adult male is NO MOTHER or FATHER, they are an enabler to child rape. TX law is very clear that NOONE 16 or younger can give consent for sex. Any Parental figure who allowed the rape of a child does not derserve the right to keep that child in their care and custody. They DO and will have the right to a full CPS investigation and a hearing in court, as any person in the US is guaranteed by the constitution.

So if any of them want to cry because their kids were removed maybe just maybe they should have thought of the ramifications of the lifestyle they chose to live before it came to this. They deserve no more/no less treatment or sympathy then any other person(s) facing the same legal charges.

Forgive me if I cannot muster an iota of sympathy for these so called Mothers.

JMHO

Hugs,

Spyder

[walton]

Originally posted by John7878 [*]Wow didn't see a whole section for this, sorry.

Looks like they were ready for another Waco:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080416/...gamist_retreat


At least they didn't kill all the kids this time to "help" them. [/*]

Wow.

Google the names Addam Swapp, John Singer and Ervil LeBaron.

The Texas Authorities acted accordingly considering the history.

[Carol25]

Originally posted by spydernweb2006 [*]

Forgive me if I have no sympathy for these so called Mothers. These so called Mothers had every chance to help LE identify children. These so called Mothers had every chance to stand up for their abused children. These so called Mothers chose to live a lifestyle that allowed their children to be abused physcially and sexually. For me its all alot of crying for propoganda and sympathy when IMO the only people in this whole mess who deserve smpathy,empathy and consideration are the children.

ANYONE who condones a 14,15 or even 16 year old girl to have sexual relations with an adult male is NO MOTHER or FATHER, they are an enabler to child rape. TX law is very clear that NOONE 16 or younger can give consent for sex. Any Parental figure who allowed the rape of a child does not derserve the right to keep that child in their care and custody. They DO and will have the right to a full CPS investigation and a hearing in court, as any person in the US is guaranteed by the constitution.

So if any of them want to cry because their kids were removed maybe just maybe they should have thought of the ramifications of the lifestyle they chose to live before it came to this. They deserve no more/no less treatment or sympathy then any other person(s) facing the same legal charges.

Forgive me if I cannot muster an iota of sympathy for these so called Mothers.

JMHO

Hugs,

Spyder [/*]

I wonder if the father and mother of these teenage girls could be accessories to rape for allowing the "spiritual marriage" to a 50 year old man. They handed their daughter over to a statutory rapist, technically.

[lotty]

IMO/JMO I sincerely wish this issue is as simple as some would like to make it out to be.

This group has changed drastically from their beginnings with Barlow and Musser.

Just please keep in mind the children, their welfare and their environment are the priority.

There is an immense amount of information on the web where the FLDS is concerned. It is a complicated issue in many ways...especially psychologically.

Everyone should be looking out for the rights and future rights of these children. IMO/JMO

[nsm]

Originally posted by Carol25 [*]
John, I know it sounds so harsh for authorities to take the mothers away from the children but they had to if the children were going to tell them anything that that was really going on at the compound. These mothers are so brainwashed and in turn brainwash their children. That is their job. How could you interview a child when he begins to say something and mother is there to stop him, interrupt or give him the signal to be quiet or else? Didn't you see the interviews with the mothers how they wouldn't answer any questions except about "we want our children back?"
I LE is going to find out the truth (which could go either way) they need to have the freedom to ask questions and have the questions answered.
Perhaps then then they could be reunited again. I hope they can, without the person who is doing the abusing.
Wouldn't you feel better about this short time of indignity and grief for the sake of possibly hundreds of others being raped and abused? [/*]

This is a horrendous situation. It is easy to see both sides of it. I feel so bad for those poor mothers. All they know is their family and they are devoted to that. To have their children taken away from a sheltered life and be thrown into a very different situation is wrong. What is scary is that if someone called in an accusation, say for instance on any of our neighborhoods. How would we feel if the the authorities move in and take all of our kids away. We would be devestated. Its just wrong. there had to be a better way to handle this.

[Freebird]

Originally posted by nsm [*]

This is a horrendous situation. It is easy to see both sides of it. I feel so bad for those poor mothers. All they know is their family and they are devoted to that. To have their children taken away from a sheltered life and be thrown into a very different situation is wrong. What is scary is that if someone called in an accusation, say for instance on any of our neighborhoods. How would we feel if the the authorities move in and take all of our kids away. We would be devestated. Its just wrong. there had to be a better way to handle this. [/*]

ITA...
I think there was a better way to handle it.Arrest the abusers but leave the kids and moms.

[LisaM22]

Originally posted by John7878 [*]This seems to be turning into a nightmare.

I am against child abuse, but in a week of digging I haven't seen anything but speculation, so far by authorities.

And now they separate the Mothers from their children after taking them from the ranch???

I see the Mothers are starting to get their side of the story out and it looks far different that what the Texas DFPS is saying.

They said the DFPS lied to them. Somehow I think I'd believe them before the DFPS.

I wonder just how long they expect to hold kids away from parents, without finding anything??

Anyone got better information on this??
DID they find anything, cause I haven't seen anything but guessing.

I also hate to see this happen to these families, because if the authorities can do this to them, they can do it to ANYONE.

Heres whats going on in Britain:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770


News story on it:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080415/...gamist_retreat

Texas DFPS
http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Contact_Us/pios.asp [/*]

I do agree, unless they have proof of abuse they are in the wrong, they need to return the children if they have no signs of abuse - just because these Christians believe different then some (which I do not agree with them or their views) I think they should not suffer because of their beliefs if there is no signs of any child abuse - jmho

[LisaM22]

Originally posted by Freebird [*]

ITA...
I think there was a better way to handle it.Arrest the abusers but leave the kids and moms. [/*]

I so agree, only thing is you have to have evidence of abuse to arrest someone, seems more like a witch hunt then anything - jmho

Originally posted by grammybear [*]I don't think there would have been an easy solution to the problems that are now being exposed. The FLDS have known for eons that they are breaking the laws in of itself just by being married to more then one person at a time. The FLDS has been fighting the law on their supposed religion platform. But they have also known what the laws were governing marriage between someone say 50 yo and a 13,14,or 15 year old. Why do you think that Jeffs performed these marriages under the cloak of secrecy. If all was above board there would be no reason for running and hiding from the authorities. This is not about religion anymore it is about the care of our very youngest human beings. For years Jeffs and his people have thumbed their nose at the law and now that LE is finally doing all that they can to protect these children the FLDS are crying discrimination of religion. Nothing is further from the truth. They have more then been given the chance to do things right and now it is all about protected these children. If somebody cannot see that this is not a religion issue then we need to rethink this. I hate to see the mothers not having their children with them but if a mother or father will not protect these babies then the law has to step in and take care of them. Otherwise we are going to see future generations being just as badly abused as these children are now.

jmoo [/*]

I AGREE WITH YOU !

Originally posted by wandering [*]So, nobody here believes Carolyn Jessop. [/*]

I DO.

Originally posted by John7878 [*]


Depends.

I have heard them speculate that girls were pregnant that were too young.

So where are they?

Then I have heard them say in the next news, that they can't even determine the age of the kids.

So I have a hard time deciding which time to believe what they are saying.

Are they lying that they can't tell the kids age or are they lying that the girls are too young to marry??

You tell me.....

(I just hope they don't go after Loretta Lynn and her kids.) [/*]

people need to wake up & smell the rats. the sect, that is. the bad evil people. the abuser's. LE did the right thing by taking these kids out of there.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Freebird [*]

ITA...
I think there was a better way to handle it.Arrest the abusers but leave the kids and moms. [/*]

And how do you guess who the abusers are? No one seems to want to say it was their step-father that got them pregnant at 13. Oh sorry he's their husband now. Whatever, the laws in Texas do not allow polygamy or marriage before 16 years of age.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by LisaM22 [*]

I so agree, only thing is you have to have evidence of abuse to arrest someone, seems more like a witch hunt then anything - jmho [/*]

Oh my God, please I pray that Lisa doesn't have any children that will ever be abused. Please don't have anyone come back and say her child was not abused and she was just on a witch hunt. In Jesus name I pray. Amen.
The police in Eldorado weren't looking for a fight, everyone had lived peacefully, until they heard that RAPE was occuring. I would want the police to come immediately, if they heard RAPE was happening to someone.

Originally posted by juliekan [*]
Oh my God, please I pray that Lisa doesn't have any children that will ever be abused. Please don't have anyone come back and say her child was not abused and she was just on a witch hunt. In Jesus name I pray. Amen.
The police in Eldorado weren't looking for a fight, everyone had lived peacefully, until they heard that RAPE was occuring. I would want the police to come immediately, if they heard RAPE was happening to someone. [/*]

YEP I AGREE WITH YA.

Originally posted by John7878 [*]

I did a search on her.

She claims she was in a abusive marriage, so she left.

Unfortunately our society probably has more of that than theirs.

But I did see where she claimed that women were sent to a mental institution in Flagstaff, Arizona.

I googled to see if any women had been rescued from there, but I didn't see anything about a rescue, instead I found this:

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/Heal...=987099&page=1

"she began acting out -- and he called the cops.

She was taken to a mental institution in Flagstaff, Ariz., more than 200 miles away. The police were not interested in her side of the story, Laurene said."

The POLICE took her to the mental institution!!!!

This is getting weird.

Abuse by the church, but the police are the ones taking them away!?!??!

I'm gonna look around some more before posting.

Later-- [/*]

-------------------

Carolyn Jessop has been in the news quite a bit since all this started. She was on I believe Larry King the other night. She said one of the women complaining about her children being separated from her was one of her "sister wifes" of Merril Jessop. She said this woman is lying about the age of her 18+ daughter who is the mother of a 9 mo old child. She said this child was 16 when she married.

She also says this woman told on her when she was escaping with her own children - she did not get caught. She stated had she got caught, she would have been punished and her children would have been removed from her.

I believe Carolyn Jessop. She is working to help rescue these young girls. She said Warren Jeffs had lowered the marriage age to 18, then 16 and she was afraid he would lower it to 14 and got her children out.

Here is a link to information on her.

http://www.childbrides.org/carolyn_V..._polygamy.html

http://www.childbrides.org/carolyn.html

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Freebird [*]

ITA...
I think there was a better way to handle it.Arrest the abusers but leave the kids and moms. [/*]

Unfortunantly, the moms probably don't know what abuse is...all of these people were raised the same way, being spiritually and physically married off at a very young, and if under 16 in Texas, illegal age.

[Freebird]

Originally posted by LisaM22 [*]

I do agree, unless they have proof of abuse they are in the wrong, they need to return the children if they have no signs of abuse - just because these Christians believe different then some (which I do not agree with them or their views) I think they should not suffer because of their beliefs if there is no signs of any child abuse - jmho [/*]

I see the non-abused kids going back.And when they do,it will be interesting to hear their opinions of the outside world(which I think will be less-then-flattering).

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Freebird [*]

I see the non-abused kids going back.And when they do,it will be interesting to hear their opinions of the outside world(which I think will be less-then-flattering). [/*]

Of course, when you are raised to think the entire outside world is Satan...

[LisaM22]

Originally posted by juliekan [*]
Oh my God, please I pray that Lisa doesn't have any children that will ever be abused. Please don't have anyone come back and say her child was not abused and she was just on a witch hunt. In Jesus name I pray. Amen.
The police in Eldorado weren't looking for a fight, everyone had lived peacefully, until they heard that RAPE was occuring. I would want the police to come immediately, if they heard RAPE was happening to someone. [/*]

there was rape in the churches in many communities, should we take their children too, just in case, the law was not designed for witch hunts - have proof of a abuse, then by all means, remove the children from that home - because there is abuse in one home in a neighborhood, doesn't mean there is in all of them - I pray if you have children, they are never taken away from you on a witch hunt- jmho

[LisaM22]

Originally posted by Freebird [*]

I see the non-abused kids going back.And when they do,it will be interesting to hear their opinions of the outside world(which I think will be less-then-flattering). [/*]

no different then the Amish, they were raised in a closed society too, not many ever leave, some do though

[John7878]

Originally posted by spydernweb2006 [*]

These so called Mothers chose to live a lifestyle that allowed their children to be abused physcially and sexually. [/*]

I'm still considering them innocent until I see proof. I think thats the way our system is SUPPOSED to work.

As for propaganda, the police seem to be pretty good at spreading that too.

They have already painted a picture of young girls, raped on a church altar to stir people up, but you have to be careful and keep an eye on what THEY are doing too.

All I'm saying is that after over a week the authorities have shown NO proof, only speculation, but I have seen the videos of the women claiming that they were lied to.
They say they are not abused or brainwashed.
They claim the girl they are looking for isn't even there....with over a WEEK to search, I am beginning to believe THEM instead of the cops.

Originally posted by spydernweb2006 [*]

They DO and will have the right to a full CPS investigation and a hearing in court, as any person in the US is guaranteed by the constitution. [/*]

Lets just hope the KIDS, who we all want to see protected, aren't subjected to YEARS of separation from their families, until the government gets their act together.

Originally posted by spydernweb2006 [*]
They deserve no more/no less treatment or sympathy then any other person(s) facing the same legal charges.
[/*]

I agree completely, and thats the problem.

We have to be REAL careful with any precedent we set in this mess. Because anything we let them do to THESE people can be done to ANYONE.

I know, your saying that these parents 'lived' this lifestyle that allegedly had their daughters sexually active.

But how many of 'our' teenagers are sexually active on their own?

Remember YOUR saying that WE deserve no better treatment than THEM.

So if someone's 16yr old is caught having sex, then this should allow the authorities to come in and take your kids away, plus any kids from the brothers or sisters, aunts & uncles....the WHOLE family. Until they interview all of them and they determine if its safe for them to be returned.
Or they get ONE complaint of abuse by a nephew of yours, but they come in and take EVERY kid out of your family to investigate the complaint and to make sure they are out of what could be an abusive family environment.

And don't think I am just trying to be a jerk with this response, I am dead serious.
There is no reason to believe that they wouldn't say that its easier to investigate a complaint if they get to interview kids from all the immediate family's.

The government is already trying to tell us that we can't spank the kids to discipline them, otherwise they will remove them.

In England they are telling parents that if their kids are overweight, that they will remove them from their 'abuse'.

Just for the record, my wife of 38years(this coming May 1st) was JUST 17 when we married and I have a good friend that had a 'barely' 16yr old wife, they just celebrated their 40th anniversary. When I graduated high school there were 2 kids that had their kids there at graduation. And there were a few girls that dropped out of high school to get married.
Teen sex & marriage isn't a new issue by a long shot.

I am not saying that there wasn't any abuse, lets just be real careful that we treat these people as we would like to be treated.

.

[walton]

Originally posted by John7878 [*]

I'm still considering them innocent until I see proof. I think thats the way our system is SUPPOSED to work.

As for propaganda, the police seem to be pretty good at spreading that too.

They have already painted a picture of young girls, raped on a church altar to stir people up, but you have to be careful and keep an eye on what THEY are doing too.

All I'm saying is that after over a week the authorities have shown NO proof, only speculation, but I have seen the videos of the women claiming that they were lied to.
They say they are not abused or brainwashed.
They claim the girl they are looking for isn't even there....with over a WEEK to search, I am beginning to believe THEM instead of the cops.





Lets just hope the KIDS, who we all want to see protected, aren't subjected to YEARS of separation from their families, until the government gets their act together.



I agree completely, and thats the problem.

We have to be REAL careful with any precedent we set in this mess. Because anything we let them do to THESE people can be done to ANYONE.

I know, your saying that these parents 'lived' this lifestyle that allegedly had their daughters sexually active.

But how many of 'our' teenagers are sexually active on their own?

Remember YOUR saying that WE deserve no better treatment than THEM.

So if someone's 16yr old is caught having sex, then this should allow the authorities to come in and take your kids away, plus any kids from the brothers or sisters, aunts & uncles....the WHOLE family. Until they interview all of them and they determine if its safe for them to be returned.
Or they get ONE complaint of abuse by a nephew of yours, but they come in and take EVERY kid out of your family to investigate the complaint and to make sure they are out of what could be an abusive family environment.

And don't think I am just trying to be a jerk with this response, I am dead serious.
There is no reason to believe that they wouldn't say that its easier to investigate a complaint if they get to interview kids from all the immediate family's.

The government is already trying to tell us that we can't spank the kids to discipline them, otherwise they will remove them.

In England they are telling parents that if their kids are overweight, that they will remove them from their 'abuse'.

Just for the record, my wife of 38years(this coming May 1st) was JUST 17 when we married and I have a good friend that had a 'barely' 16yr old wife, they just celebrated their 40th anniversary. When I graduated high school there were 2 kids that had their kids there at graduation. And there were a few girls that dropped out of high school to get married.
Teen sex & marriage isn't a new issue by a long shot.

I am not saying that there wasn't any abuse, lets just be real careful that we treat these people as we would like to be treated.

. [/*]

You were able to attend school until graduation. They (if lucky) get to the 8th grade.
You were able to choose your wife and your wife chose you.
Your wife and kids were not taken from you and assigned to your brother, uncle, father or any other male living in your neighborhood.
Your kids get to celebrate their birthdays. They know their birthdays. They are recognized by you and your wife and they recognize you as their parents.
Some of these kids don't know who their parents are, Some of these kids call 5 different women Mom. Some of these kids call this one lady Aunt Jane when really this person is their own sister and their fathers 3rd wife.

In an average setting outside of these compounds when calls are made concerning abuse, the authorities investigate that one home and check for abuse.
If the signs are evident they pull the child or children and are able to question the child with out either parent.

It just so happens that this place housed over 400 plus children. 400 plus children that all lived behind the same 4 walls.

Was it wrong? NO. Not sure how familar you are with Domestic Violence or Child Abuse but the mothers too can be the abuser.

One way for an abuser to continue to abuse is by taking away their identity. jmo
Not all abuse is evident with a black and blue mark.

The evidence that you are looking for will be brought out in court. And because these are minors you might never ever find out who belonged to whom.
What those 300 plus lawyers and that Judge is going to do is first give those little ones their identity. And then they will rule accordingly with each child. A fair shot. Something that they were not getting inside.

If you look at any news clip from any media outlet, you will not see one toy, nor will you see any family pet. You might see one adult size wheel barrow next to a childs wheel barrow. You might see one adult size shovel next to a child shovel.

In any news clip taken from inside the home you will see beds lined up in a row, chairs lined up in a row, dressers lined up along a wall. Almost like a bunk house for a work crew out in the fields.

If you would check out any of the many links provided you will see that the proof is in the pudding.

jmo

[John7878]

Originally posted by walton [*]


Was it wrong? NO. Not sure how familar you are with Domestic Violence or Child Abuse but the mothers too can be the abuser.

Not all abuse is evident with a black and blue mark.

The evidence that you are looking for will be brought out in court.
If you would check out any of the many links provided you will see that the proof is in the pudding.

jmo [/*]

All that stuff you list as 'abuse' I take with a grain of salt.

Just because someone lives a different life doesn't mean its abusive.

Thats all I ask is a link to evidence.

Heres one for you:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4012137.shtml

Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints also say children are "horrified" by physical examinations they have undergone while in state custody.

So now who is traumatizing the children?? FORCING them to be stripped and examined.

And make no mistake, this is scarring these kids for LIFE!

.

[Roux]

Originally posted by Freebird [*]

I see the non-abused kids going back.And when they do,it will be interesting to hear their opinions of the outside world(which I think will be less-then-flattering). [/*]

Of course it will... they're brainwashed FGS! This sect is a cult and false religion that deprives women and children of free choice.

[Roux]

Originally posted by LisaM22 [*]

no different then the Amish, they were raised in a closed society too, not many ever leave, some do though [/*]

These people try to portray themselves as sweet and non-threatening as the Amish, but they are not. The Amish are law abiding citizens. Furthermore, I don't believe the Amish commit welfare and tax fraud.

[walton]

Originally posted by John7878 [*]


All that stuff you list as 'abuse' I take with a grain of salt.

Just because someone lives a different life doesn't mean its abusive.

Thats all I ask is a link to evidence.

Heres one for you:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4012137.shtml

Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints also say children are "horrified" by physical examinations they have undergone while in state custody.

So now who is traumatizing the children?? FORCING them to be stripped and examined.

And make no mistake, this is scarring these kids for LIFE!

. [/*]

Check out the photos from the Pilot : http://web.sccn2.net/flds/





JD is that you?

Could YOU please prove to me that these kids were not abused.
Make sure you back it up with links.

[John7878]

Originally posted by Roux [*]

Of course it will... they're brainwashed FGS! This sect is a cult and false religion that deprives women and children of free choice. [/*]

Ok what I saw was the news report that kids were being "taken" from their homes and that the women "voluntarily" left.

Then I see a video of the women saying that they left to be with the children, not that they WANTED to leave their homes. When clearly the news was slanting the report to make it seem as though they were.

And they say the police LIED to them.

They say that there is NO abuse.

They say that the girl they are looking for doesn't even live there.

They say that their kids are being abused by the state officials by stripping them for examinations and that the kids are 'horrified'.

I see authorities coming out with conflicting reports. I see them in the news confirming that they still know nothing about the girl that called, the kids......do I need to go on.....

I have to ask myself just who is the brainwashed one here.

[lotty]

Why can't you wait and see...
First thing with all big news stories, contradictions, differing facts, and immediately different views from "talking heads."

Just wait and let things work out. There are no guarantees that LE is being truthful...There are no guarantees the Mothers are being truthful.

Take some time, sort it out.

Just "try" to look at both sides of the coin. If there is a Sarah, she probably made the call for a reason. If there is not a Sarah, someone made the call for a reason. Please also remember, where minors are concerned...laws regarding their privacy is very different. Many things will never get to the Press.

With Warren Jeffs conviction, it was "Jane Doe", because the crime ocurred when she was a minor. The adult Elissa Wall is the one who put her own anonymity aside to address the public.