Sect Moms Appeal to Gov Perry

[txsage]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

Three mothers have appealed to Gov. Rick Perry for help in a letter the sect said was mailed to him on Saturday.

[spydernweb2006]

Maybe I am wrong, and Lord forgive me if I am, but why didnt these Mothers PROTECT their children so something like this couldn't happen? Why didnt they care enough for their children to protect them from any form of abuse? Seems to me its crying now cause the horse is outta the barn when they knowingly didnt lock the barn doors.

I am sure these women are in pain, but I am just as sure those children have suffered worse pain being abused then their Mothers are feeling at their loss.

Its called paying the band Ladies, you danced the dance, and the price of the band was removing the kids for THEIR protection, not your comfort. You knowingly and willingly allowed the Men of these compounds to abuse your children and then cry when your kids are removed.

If you truly loved and cared for your children you would HELP LE identify the kids, identify the abusers and see justice done. Allowing your kids to be horribly abused time and time again is not love and its not an environment that ANY human should have to live in, especially an innocent vunerable child.


JMHO

Hugs,

Spyder

[lotty]

I agree with Spyder.

IMO what we are about to see is some "bleeding heart" propaganda.

I'm not being ugly, just observing facts. There were misrepresentations when they bought the land at Eldorado and Mancos. "Hunting reserve" I'm sure. Mind you these were mearly "misrepresentations" or "stories." How about things being called like they are...if it looks like a duck...

So all of these women were away from the compound when the raid happened. Wait...women and children were not allowed to leave the compound. Someone needs to get some facts straight.

How about the fact that this raid just "sullied" Warren Jeffs most pure compound and children. Totally exposed to the outside world.

I get tired of them trying to have it both ways...FLDS breaks the laws of this country knowingly...as soon as they eyes of the nation turn towards them. "Freedom of religion, We didn't know "that" was a law, Just leave us alone, ...and let's not forget poor me," start rolling out of the collective mouths of the adults.
IMO/JMO sorry a little indignant this morning.

I can understand the mothers wanting their children back. But what I can not see is now that the law is involved, giving the children back to mothers who will return to the "compound" to continue raising the children to live with these beliefs. Religion is fine. That is your choice, but to do what has been done to these children in the name of religion is against the law. I wonder because of the inbreeding just what kind of sickness there is. How many of the children have been abused. How many can read and write. So many ? so few answers.

[awareness]

IMO part of the problem is its likely the mothers themselves were raised with "the Principle" of polygamy and they only adhere to that as its what they were taught all their own lives.

Girls are taught to "Be sweet, no matter what" - meaning to just accept whatever BS they throw your way. Warren Jeffs sect has furthered that with immediate consummation with that bed in the church.

I can understand they aren't comfortable not being in their own homes. Perhaps a bit cramped with living quarters, etc. But the State of TX needs to conduct and conclude their investigation before any children get released. Its said there's a few pregnant teens there and ones with babies as well.

I agree that if the Moms truly loved their kids they wouldnt want them being abused... but I have to remember these women were raised this way, probably saw young boys they knew cast out, they were married off at a young age, etc.

JMO/IMO

An FBI agent and an other law enforcement official walk into an entrance to the temple at the Yearn for Zion Ranch, home of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Eldorado, Texas. A polygamist compound with hundreds of children was rife with sexual abuse, child welfare officials allege in court documents, with girls spiritually married to much older men as soon as they reached puberty and boys groomed to perpetuate the cycle.

(AP Photo / Tony Gutierrez / April 8, 2008)
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationwo...8.photogallery

Why as a mother would you want this to happen to your child? Religion? I do not think so, not sure why this religion thing is just not sitting right with me.

[lotty]

IMO/JMO "Keep sweet" those two words have vast conotations to these people (FLDS). Eternal damnation...the children suffer for the parents to save their own souls. No laughter is allowed, emotions are bad. I have a real problem with the whole "they won't let us see our children issue." This religion has no problem with separating children from their biological parents, paternal or maternal. Misbehave, off you go to Bountiful, or who knows where else. There are missing people in this religion...MISSING...IMO/JMO

[awareness]

I heard there's a few "camps" for wayward wives to get them more obedient/back in line. I heard one of them was near Colorado City, but who knows if that's still the case.

ITA with your post Lotty... I feel some of them are likely just using those words (in their letter to the Govenor of TX) just to get out of there, to get back home, and back into the nasty cycle they all live in.

Its also engrained that the FDLS "bleed the beast" as much as possible (the US Gov't) by collecting as much free $$$ as they can via medical, welfare, food stamp benefits, etc.

its all one huge, horrible cycle... sadly many of the women today were raised that way, its all they know and are programmed to do unless they want to risk eternal damnnation.

JMO/IMO

[Freebird]

Originally posted by lotty [*]IMO/JMO "Keep sweet" those two words have vast conotations to these people (FLDS). Eternal damnation...the children suffer for the parents to save their own souls. No laughter is allowed, emotions are bad. I have a real problem with the whole "they won't let us see our children issue." This religion has no problem with separating children from their biological parents, paternal or maternal. Misbehave, off you go to Bountiful, or who knows where else. There are missing people in this religion...MISSING...IMO/JMO [/*]

It's not the religion separating these kids from their mothers now.

[lotty]

Originally posted by awareness [*]respectfully snipped

its all one huge, horrible cycle... sadly many of the women today were raised that way, its all they know and are programmed to do unless they want to risk eternal damnnation.

JMO/IMO [/*]

IMO/JMO There are some who left because they couldn't live this way anymore. Some with all of their children, and some with a few of their children. For these ladies who were strong enough to stand up and make a difficult and life altering decision, who don't get to see or speak to the children (now adults) left behind... I am sure that to some extent Warren Jeffs was right. Their loss is, I'm sure...Hell. IMO/JMO

[lotty]

From Sydney, always interesting to see what someone else has to say:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/pol...025153766.html

"The women were given a choice: Return to the Eldorado ranch of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a renegade Mormon sect, or go to another safe location. Some women chose the latter, Gonzales said."

Why would some of the women choose to go to "another safe location?"

[lotty]

Originally posted by grammybear [*] respectfully snipped

It is just high time that society started taking responsibility for their own actions.

jmoo [/*]

ITA. Grammy you always keep the priority where it should be...the children. You and Walton are so diligent...my hat is off to you both. Keep up the good work.

[awareness]

They want their cake and be able to eat it too... I mean they are crying about religious prosecution now, but they have no problems accepting free medical care, being on welfare, etc. Then again they're taught that "bleeding the beast" (the US Govt) is a good thing to do.

I think I heard on the news they moved the kids, but some of the mothers weren't allowed to go? Or they chose not to go? And are now hiring attorneys of their own to get their children back?

I wonder if they realize that will entail facts coming out they want kept secret. Like who's your mother/father? Who's your young child married to?

I know its wrong in most of our eyes here on trutv message boards, but for these women its a way of life - they're taught to distrust outside people. That their way is the only true way to heaven. On one hand I feel for them, its their religion -- but after reading several accounts from some women who've left the sect, I know some of them feel weird / gross / revolted / abused when they were taken as plural wives... not to mention the call that set this recent investigation off... you have to wonder why these women just feel its OK for their daughters to go through the same if/when they felt negativley about it when they were "wed".

JMO/IMO

[awareness]

Ok I have since figured out that authorities have separated the mothers from the children, that some of the mothers went back to the ElDorado compound and others have gone elsewhere (possibly a battered womens shelter).

JMO/IMO

[Debb]

Originally posted by awareness [*]I heard there's a few "camps" for wayward wives to get them more obedient/back in line. I heard one of them was near Colorado City, but who knows if that's still the case.

ITA with your post Lotty... I feel some of them are likely just using those words (in their letter to the Govenor of TX) just to get out of there, to get back home, and back into the nasty cycle they all live in.

Its also engrained that the FDLS "bleed the beast" as much as possible (the US Gov't) by collecting as much free $$$ as they can via medical, welfare, food stamp benefits, etc.

its all one huge, horrible cycle... sadly many of the women today were raised that way, its all they know and are programmed to do unless they want to risk eternal damnnation.

JMO/IMO [/*]

I agree completely. These women do not know what constitutes child abuse. They don't understand what is considered inappropiate and how could they if they have no outside contact and that is what they are taught from birth?

I saw a reporter ask one of the women today if there were actually 13,14, and 15 girls getting married on the compound and she said "This is about the children." Indicating that she doesn't consider the 13,14, and 15 year olds children. I'm not sure why the reporter didn't ask her that.

Then another lady said they were living in Zion. She said in a soft, dreamy manner like someone on drugs. Very scary. But, I don't think these women have the skills, knowledge or means to really deprogram themself and then their children.

[Details]

Originally posted by lotty [*]...Why would some of the women choose to go to "another safe location?" [/*]

I think "another safe location" means another shelter where the women can be safe from the cult. The compound - the men are still there - that means returning to the cult.

[Carol25]

I thought the way all of these women talked was strange. They almost sounded like robots. Of course, just knowing about this cult, my perception could be askew.

If I was one of the mothers. I too would choose to stay in a shelter, not knowing if I could get out of the compound again to take legal guardianship of my children. I believe the ones who were a little brighter might have taken this approach. JMO

[Carol25]

Originally posted by essiemadge [*]it surely would be good to know the mental level of most of these women. i do not mean just education, i mean the ability to live without constant controls to be able to cope with daily living. all the inbreeding over the years must have taken a toll. [/*]

Walton may be able to address this. Some may have to have social workers work with them for a couple of years to help them understand fundamental elements of living on their own. I believe there are social workers that do this kind of work for the mentally challenged.

[John7878]

I don't know much about this really.

But I DO know that I haven't seen ANY evidence.

The police 'alledge' a lot of stuff. (like what the bed in the church was used for, abuse, etc)

They have had a week to find the girl that was supposed to have called.

They have had a week to question everyone....so where is the proof?

I have seen the news report that the women 'voluntarily' left their church, but then find out the women left to be with their children, they didn't actually want to leave.
And now the authorities are taking them away from even the Mothers.

And the interviews from the mothers seem to be quite a different story than the propaganda put out by family services.
The women claim they were lied to.
They claim that the girl they are looking for isn't even there.

So there we are....who DO we believe??

Hey if I have missed a news report with evidence please post it.

I am all for making the kids safe, be it from abuse from family or abuse from Texas Children's Protective Services.

[Carol25]

Originally posted by John7878 [*]I don't know much about this really.

But I DO know that I haven't seen ANY evidence.

The police 'alledge' a lot of stuff. (like what the bed in the church was used for, abuse, etc)

They have had a week to find the girl that was supposed to have called.

They have had a week to question everyone....so where is the proof?

I have seen the news report that the women 'voluntarily' left their church, but then find out the women left to be with their children, they didn't actually want to leave.
And now the authorities are taking them away from even the Mothers.

And the interviews from the mothers seem to be quite a different story than the propaganda put out by family services.
The women claim they were lied to.
They claim that the girl they are looking for isn't even there.

So there we are....who DO we believe??

Hey if I have missed a news report with evidence please post it.

I am all for making the kids safe, be it from abuse from family or abuse from Texas Children's Protective Services. [/*]

I think LE rarely gives out all of the evidence before they go to court, especially while the investigation is still going on. They have to get DNA tests done. All of that takes time.

They also have to establish a rapport and get the confidence of 400 children before they can ask them questions and expect them to answer them truthfully.

[Freebird]

Originally posted by John7878 [*]I don't know much about this really.

But I DO know that I haven't seen ANY evidence.

The police 'alledge' a lot of stuff. (like what the bed in the church was used for, abuse, etc)

They have had a week to find the girl that was supposed to have called.

They have had a week to question everyone....so where is the proof?

I have seen the news report that the women 'voluntarily' left their church, but then find out the women left to be with their children, they didn't actually want to leave.
And now the authorities are taking them away from even the Mothers.

And the interviews from the mothers seem to be quite a different story than the propaganda put out by family services.
The women claim they were lied to.
They claim that the girl they are looking for isn't even there.

So there we are....who DO we believe??

Hey if I have missed a news report with evidence please post it.

I am all for making the kids safe, be it from abuse from family or abuse from Texas Children's Protective Services. [/*]

I'm beginning to believe there is no 16-year-old that called.And if there is,she probably feels guilty to have caused these kids to be separated from their mothers.

[spydernweb2006]

Originally posted by Freebird [*]


I'm beginning to believe there is no 16-year-old that called.And if there is,she probably feels guilty to have caused these kids to be separated from their mothers. [/*]

Lets just for fun play devil's advocate here. Even IF there were no 16 yr old that called or IF she was already moved by the FLDS by the time the LE got to the compound it would NOT matter.

The LEGAL reason being:

LE went in on a PROBALE CAUSE warrant. Once they got to the Eldorado Compound they saw abuse. Once they saw abuse, and the reports here in TX so far say they saw underage pregnant girls, they had enough legal action to remove all the children for their safety.

Let me give you another scenerio that may help you understand. Lets say having apples are a crime, and squeezing oranges are another separate crime. LE gets a warrant to go into a person's home based on probale cause of a person/s having apples was reported to them. While in the home they found/saw evidence of another illegal activity such as a buch of orange rinds, a juice squeezer and a glass with OJ residue in it. They can at that point legally take action for the other OJ activity eventhough they went in to get apples but found oranges and/or proof of OJ making. Now had they come in and not seen any other illegal activity they couldnt have done diddly squat except for the apples in the original warrant.

I hope that clears it a bit for you. It legally does not matter if they go into a home/area for one thing and find other illegal activity. They are bound by the Law here in TX to act if they find ANY illegal activity. The next step/s are the court hearings.

The FLDS made their big mistake by comming to TX, if they wanted the illegal by TX law life they choose to live. They will now be treated as any other child abuser. The kids are removed from the Parental Figures, a through investigation is underway and it will all play out in a courtroom, not in the media.

I fully expect a huge boohoo propaganda attempt by the FLDS, but for me personally it holds no water. My concern is for the kids their actions hurt. For the FLDS the game is over, they danced the dance and now it time to pay the fiddler.

JMHO

Hugs,

Spyder

[evalles]

Originally posted by Carol25 [*]
I think LE rarely gives out all of the evidence before they go to court, especially while the investigation is still going on. They have to get DNA tests done. All of that takes time.

They also have to establish a rapport and get the confidence of 400 children before they can ask them questions and expect them to answer them truthfully. [/*]

The only court hearing scheduled is in family court. LE doesn't investigate, CPS does. IMO this is the problem. There was no evidence, there was an anonymous phone call. 416 children have been uprooted and forced to undergo sexual examinations because of a phone call. If no sexual abuse is found, who are the real abusers ? The father's want to leave so the mom's & kids can be home. They don't even care if CPS is there to make sure there are no men there. CPS won't agree. Who really cares about what's best for the children ? If there's proof, why isnt anybody in jail ?

[evalles]

Originally posted by spydernweb2006 [*]

Lets just for fun play devil's advocate here. Even IF there were no 16 yr old that called or IF she was already moved by the FLDS by the time the LE got to the compound it would NOT matter.

The LEGAL reason being:

LE went in on a PROBALE CAUSE warrant. Once they got to the Eldorado Compound they saw abuse. Once they saw abuse, and the reports here in TX so far say they saw underage pregnant girls, they had enough legal action to remove all the children for their safety.

Let me give you another scenerio that may help you understand. Lets say having apples are a crime, and squeezing oranges are another separate crime. LE gets a warrant to go into a person's home based on probale cause of a person/s having apples was reported to them. While in the home they found/saw evidence of another illegal activity such as a buch of orange rinds, a juice squeezer and a glass with OJ residue in it. They can at that point legally take action for the other OJ activity eventhough they went in to get apples but found oranges and/or proof of OJ making. Now had they come in and not seen any other illegal activity they couldnt have done diddly squat except for the apples in the original warrant.

I hope that clears it a bit for you. It legally does not matter if they go into a home/area for one thing and find other illegal activity. They are bound by the Law here in TX to act if they find ANY illegal activity. The next step/s are the court hearings.

The FLDS made their big mistake by comming to TX, if they wanted the illegal by TX law life they choose to live. They will now be treated as any other child abuser. The kids are removed from the Parental Figures, a through investigation is underway and it will all play out in a courtroom, not in the media.

I fully expect a huge boohoo propaganda attempt by the FLDS, but for me personally it holds no water. My concern is for the kids their actions hurt. For the FLDS the game is over, they danced the dance and now it time to pay the fiddler.

JMHO

Hugs,

Spyder [/*]

They witnessed all 416 children being abused ? If my neighbors abused their kid, can CPS take mine ? After all, we live in the same neighborhood. Even if you don't agree with their lifestyle, how can you justify such blatant disregard for their civil and god given rights. It's scary to think judges issue warrants based on a phone call that wasn't even made to the police by a person that didn't give her last name and that they're unable to locate. Is this really the definition of probable cause. I'm not a member of the FLDS, I'm a Christian, but I'm guessing you work for Texas CPS.

[walton]

Originally posted by evalles [*]

They witnessed all 416 children being abused ? If my neighbors abused their kid, can CPS take mine ? After all, we live in the same neighborhood. Even if you don't agree with their lifestyle, how can you justify such blatant disregard for their civil and god given rights. It's scary to think judges issue warrants based on a phone call that wasn't even made to the police by a person that didn't give her last name and that they're unable to locate. Is this really the definition of probable cause. I'm not a member of the FLDS, I'm a Christian, but I'm guessing you work for Texas CPS. [/*]

If someone calls in for a fire do they also need to give first and last names? Do they send out a guy with a squirt gun or send the fire truck with whistles blowing?

Heck here in cyber-land none of us use our real names and we don't even have the threat of eternal damnation.

Sara could be a real person that did not use her real name. Sara could be in Mexico for all we know. Sara could be Lucy for all we know. The call was made and the authorities acted on it.

[nsm]

Originally posted by Debb [*]

I agree completely. These women do not know what constitutes child abuse. They don't understand what is considered inappropiate and how could they if they have no outside contact and that is what they are taught from birth?

I saw a reporter ask one of the women today if there were actually 13,14, and 15 girls getting married on the compound and she said "This is about the children." Indicating that she doesn't consider the 13,14, and 15 year olds children. I'm not sure why the reporter didn't ask her that.

Then another lady said they were living in Zion. She said in a soft, dreamy manner like someone on drugs. Very scary. But, I don't think these women have the skills, knowledge or means to really deprogram themself and then their children. [/*]

I saw that and it was hard to watch. It was the stepford wives in a time warp. very creepy.

[walton]

Originally posted by Carol25 [*]
Walton may be able to address this. Some may have to have social workers work with them for a couple of years to help them understand fundamental elements of living on their own. I believe there are social workers that do this kind of work for the mentally challenged. [/*]

There are programs out there that would help them help themselves.

[walton]

Originally posted by nsm [*]

I saw that and it was hard to watch. It was the stepford wives in a time warp. very creepy. [/*]

Have you ever seen the movie the Village?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0368447/plotsummary

'The Village' depicts the thrilling tale of an isolated town confronting the astonishing truth that lies just outside its borders. At first glance, this village seems picture perfect, but this close-knit community lives with the frightening knowledge that creatures reside in the surrounding woods. The evil and foreboding force is so unnerving that none dare venture beyond the borders of the village and into the woods. But when curious, headstrong Lucius Hunt plans to step beyond the boundaries of the town and into the unknown, his bold move threatens to forever change the future of the village.

[lotty]

Originally posted by evalles [*]

They witnessed all 416 children being abused ? If my neighbors abused their kid, can CPS take mine ? After all, we live in the same neighborhood. Even if you don't agree with their lifestyle, how can you justify such blatant disregard for their civil and god given rights. It's scary to think judges issue warrants based on a phone call that wasn't even made to the police by a person that didn't give her last name and that they're unable to locate. Is this really the definition of probable cause. I'm not a member of the FLDS, I'm a Christian, but I'm guessing you work for Texas CPS. [/*]

Their living arrangement is different...If they saw a girl that looked 15yo and expecting, siblings have to go with her. Who are her siblings? No one will say...lots of confusion...lack of cooperation. Now what? Say it was just one family, but they are moving kids from house to house, and no one can or will tell you who the parents are. How do you enforce the law in that situation. All things being equal...we are all human and capable of mistakes. EVERYONE. If they have a warrant for your neighbors house to be searched...while they are performing the search your neighbor runs to your house opens the door and steps into your house...guess what!

[Details]

LE doesn't, and isn't supposed to try it's case in the media - and a week is such a short time in the scope of an investigation like this. They went in legitimately. They say (and there's sure no reason to doubt them) that they saw abuse and neglect - pregnant little girls, babies unattended, etc. When an officer sees that - they are required to take action. Period. Even if they never find the person who made the original call.

[Freebird]

Originally posted by evalles [*]

The only court hearing scheduled is in family court. LE doesn't investigate, CPS does. IMO this is the problem. There was no evidence, there was an anonymous phone call. 416 children have been uprooted and forced to undergo sexual examinations because of a phone call. If no sexual abuse is found, who are the real abusers ? The father's want to leave so the mom's & kids can be home. They don't even care if CPS is there to make sure there are no men there. CPS won't agree. Who really cares about what's best for the children ? If there's proof, why isnt anybody in jail ? [/*]

ITA...If these kids were abused,then why take the kids but leave the abusers? They didn't even arrest Barlow when they had the chance. There is no way these kids will trust the outside world now.

[Freebird]

Originally posted by evalles [*]

They witnessed all 416 children being abused ? If my neighbors abused their kid, can CPS take mine ? After all, we live in the same neighborhood. Even if you don't agree with their lifestyle, how can you justify such blatant disregard for their civil and god given rights. It's scary to think judges issue warrants based on a phone call that wasn't even made to the police by a person that didn't give her last name and that they're unable to locate. Is this really the definition of probable cause. I'm not a member of the FLDS, I'm a Christian, but I'm guessing you work for Texas CPS. [/*]

ITA

[Carol25]

Originally posted by evalles [*]

They witnessed all 416 children being abused ? If my neighbors abused their kid, can CPS take mine ? After all, we live in the same neighborhood. Even if you don't agree with their lifestyle, how can you justify such blatant disregard for their civil and god given rights. It's scary to think judges issue warrants based on a phone call that wasn't even made to the police by a person that didn't give her last name and that they're unable to locate. Is this really the definition of probable cause. I'm not a member of the FLDS, I'm a Christian, but I'm guessing you work for Texas CPS. [/*]

Probable cause was the phone call. Evidence of a crime was when the police saw very young pregnant girls. They collected evidence:

http://www.childbrides.org/ItemsSeizedAtYFZ.pdf

Take a look at the 88 pages of what they found and what they have to go through. Do you think this can be analyzed and documented in a couple of days? On the list are several cell phones. I would assume they would be able to tell if a phone call was made from one of those phones. Although you would think if they discovered her, they would have disposed of the phone. They discovered tons of records, birth records, records that included father and mother's names and geneaology records. So, so much. Even mail from "hiding houses"....wouldn't really call that a real wholesome neighborhood..JMO

Originally posted by Carol25 [*]
Probable cause was the phone call. Evidence of a crime was when the police saw very young pregnant girls. They collected evidence:

http://www.childbrides.org/ItemsSeizedAtYFZ.pdf

Take a look at the 88 pages of what they found and what they have to go through. Do you think this can be analyzed and documented in a couple of days? On the list are several cell phones. I would assume they would be able to tell if a phone call was made from one of those phones. Although you would think if they discovered her, they would have disposed of the phone. They discovered tons of records, birth records, records that included father and mother's names and geneaology records. So, so much. Even mail from "hiding houses"....wouldn't really call that a real wholesome neighborhood..JMO [/*]

I AGREE.

Originally posted by Details [*]LE doesn't, and isn't supposed to try it's case in the media - and a week is such a short time in the scope of an investigation like this. They went in legitimately. They say (and there's sure no reason to doubt them) that they saw abuse and neglect - pregnant little girls, babies unattended, etc. When an officer sees that - they are required to take action. Period. Even if they never find the person who made the original call. [/*]

i agree.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton [*]

Have you ever seen the movie the Village?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0368447/plotsummary

'The Village' depicts the thrilling tale of an isolated town confronting the astonishing truth that lies just outside its borders. At first glance, this village seems picture perfect, but this close-knit community lives with the frightening knowledge that creatures reside in the surrounding woods. The evil and foreboding force is so unnerving that none dare venture beyond the borders of the village and into the woods. But when curious, headstrong Lucius Hunt plans to step beyond the boundaries of the town and into the unknown, his bold move threatens to forever change the future of the village. [/*]

Wonderful example of what they are doing, I remember this movie. Everyone should see this to understand how groups of people can "fashion" how their followers think. Thanks

Originally posted by spydernweb2006 [*]

Lets just for fun play devil's advocate here. Even IF there were no 16 yr old that called or IF she was already moved by the FLDS by the time the LE got to the compound it would NOT matter.

The LEGAL reason being:

LE went in on a PROBALE CAUSE warrant. Once they got to the Eldorado Compound they saw abuse. Once they saw abuse, and the reports here in TX so far say they saw underage pregnant girls, they had enough legal action to remove all the children for their safety.

Let me give you another scenerio that may help you understand. Lets say having apples are a crime, and squeezing oranges are another separate crime. LE gets a warrant to go into a person's home based on probale cause of a person/s having apples was reported to them. While in the home they found/saw evidence of another illegal activity such as a buch of orange rinds, a juice squeezer and a glass with OJ residue in it. They can at that point legally take action for the other OJ activity eventhough they went in to get apples but found oranges and/or proof of OJ making. Now had they come in and not seen any other illegal activity they couldnt have done diddly squat except for the apples in the original warrant.

I hope that clears it a bit for you. It legally does not matter if they go into a home/area for one thing and find other illegal activity. They are bound by the Law here in TX to act if they find ANY illegal activity. The next step/s are the court hearings.

The FLDS made their big mistake by comming to TX, if they wanted the illegal by TX law life they choose to live. They will now be treated as any other child abuser. The kids are removed from the Parental Figures, a through investigation is underway and it will all play out in a courtroom, not in the media.

I fully expect a huge boohoo propaganda attempt by the FLDS, but for me personally it holds no water. My concern is for the kids their actions hurt. For the FLDS the game is over, they danced the dance and now it time to pay the fiddler.

JMHO

Hugs,

Spyder [/*]

good post, i agree.

[spydernweb2006]

Originally posted by evalles [*]

They witnessed all 416 children being abused ? If my neighbors abused their kid, can CPS take mine ? After all, we live in the same neighborhood. Even if you don't agree with their lifestyle, how can you justify such blatant disregard for their civil and god given rights. It's scary to think judges issue warrants based on a phone call that wasn't even made to the police by a person that didn't give her last name and that they're unable to locate. Is this really the definition of probable cause. I'm not a member of the FLDS, I'm a Christian, but I'm guessing you work for Texas CPS. [/*]

FYI I do NOT work for TX CPS. I do have expirence with CPS from when my daughter was abused by a babysitter. In ALL cases the the 1st thing CPS does is ensure the safety and wellbeing of ANY kids involved in the situation.

As I see it the main reason all the kids were removed from the YFZ Ranch was largely caused by LE seeing abuse and the inability to know WHO these kids legally belong too. LE/CPS cannot even ID alot of the kids so they can address each individual family and any abuse within those families.

I agree if a certain family has no abuse, no evidence of abuse or ANY legal reason to not have their kids they should and will get their kids back. But until ALL the kids can be identified and the Parents and kids evaluated this cannot happen. Sadly it could be a few abusive people causing harm for the many.

IF these people TRULY wanted their kids back they would cooperate with any investigation fully. They refuse too so they will have to answer to that in a court of law as our constitution demands. They will have their day in court and it will be a fair hearing.

Investigations are NEVER handled publically. These children have rights to privacy that will not be broken due to a mass propaganda blitz by the FLDS. TX is acting correctly to not make it a public media battle. TX has kept everyone informed in a legal and correct manner. You will not see TX CPS get on camera and name names or exploit the plight of these kids in the media. I assure you TX will not allow these kids to be abused in any shape or form while in their care.

FLDS created this mess when they refused to protect any child in their care, then cry because they are removed as ANY child suspected of abuse by a Parent/Guardian. They WILL get their day in court, which is where the case belongs, not in the media.

JMHO

Hugs,

Spyder

Did anyone hear that one FLDS woman on Fox News just a few minutes ago say something about their plight being worse than a concentration camp?? Um - WHAT?? WORSE than a concentration camp?? Yeah - I'm sure it's horrible. Maybe if they kept their young daughters from being raped they wouldn't have to worry about it. Burns me up!

[Roux]

Originally posted by AmyO [*]Did anyone hear that one FLDS woman on Fox News just a few minutes ago say something about their plight being worse than a concentration camp?? Um - WHAT?? WORSE than a concentration camp?? Yeah - I'm sure it's horrible. Maybe if they kept their young daughters from being raped they wouldn't have to worry about it. Burns me up! [/*]

Didn't see that but I absolutely did not believe the one yesterday prattling on about how her daughter with 2 mo. baby needing water. Supposedly they asked for but were denied water because it was after 9:30 PM. There is NO WAY I will believe that they weren't held in decent conditions. Maybe not as comfortable as a Hilton or Hyatt but certainly not a concentration camp.