Monday April 14, 2008 Daily Discussion

[Babes]

Good Morning Folks,

Cant wait to hear more news from Mexico -

Mary Lauterbach said, "Maybe we'll come to closer to the truth of what happened on December 14th

[SavannahStar]

Thoughts and prayers for Jan Powell's surgery today.

[n/t]

Good Morning!

Everyday is one step closer to justice for Maria and baby Gabriel.

A big thank you to Lynn for an awesome job on posting links and to those giving updates. It makes this case so much easier to follow for those of us at work. Thank you!

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Babes [*]So Maria's car was moved multiple times - Who moved it? Where is the key? Where's the fingerprint results / forensic test on the car? Where is this car on the night of December 14th and 15th?

[/*]

Don't know the answers to the questions except I would think LE has the results of the fingerprint/forensics tests. But they have not been made public, apparently. I would assume Christina's prints are not on the auto, otherwise she would certainly be a suspect.

[henry]

good morning everyone . . . babes, there's also a few missing posts from his "here's the deal" section . . .

i'm looking forward to strick10's post about the deserter info - thank you strick10 in advance! also(not directed to strick10 cause i'm sure they'll need some down time after that project) but wondering whether there's different spousal testimony rules (when both are active and/or enlisted) in the military courts. i keep on going back to why cesar is more afraid of the MC. i keep on thinking back to those 2 myspace(?) threats and what happened to the investigation . . . tia as i'm still tax-impaired today!

imo

[henry]

Originally posted by n/t [*]Good Morning!

Everyday is one step closer to justice for Maria and baby Gabriel.

A big thank you to Lynn for an awesome job on posting links and to those giving updates. It makes this case so much easier to follow for those of us at work. Thank you! [/*]

ditto!!!! and may i also add quite helpful to those of us that "work" at home

[leah]

I read the boards daily and have kept up with your postings. One question that has bothered me that I haven't seen addressed is....Does anyone know if Christina even came home the night of Dec. 14th after the Christmas party? I know there was a lot of debate on yesterday's postings about CAL not having enough time to take care of all the things (dig a hole, clean up, paint) all before Christina got home from the party. Do you think it possible that they had had an argument and that's why CAL didn't go to the party....and that Christina didn't go home to her house and maybe stayed with her sister that night. This would have given CAL many hours to do all the cleaning up, painting, etc.
TIA for any replys.
Of course this is JMO

[cuppajoe]

Morning all.

Reports are that Christina got back from the party around 7:00 p.m. I believe. Couldn't CL have hid Maria's body and then buried her when he had more time? He probably used what little time he had to clean up the scene.

[leah]

Originally posted by cuppajoe [*]Morning all.

Reports are that Christina got back from the party around 7:00 p.m. I believe. Couldn't CL have hid Maria's body and then buried her when he had more time? He probably used what little time he had to clean up the scene. [/*]

I've seen the reports that she left the party at 7:00pm....are there any reports that state she came home to her house??

[cuppajoe]

Oh maybe I am confused I thought she got home at 7:00 P.M.

[leah]

Originally posted by cuppajoe [*]Oh maybe I am confused I thought she got home at 7:00 P.M. [/*]

Maybe I'm the one confused....Hopefully someone has the report to clear this up in my mind....
TIA

[strick10]

Originally posted by henry [*]good morning everyone . . . babes, there's also a few missing posts from his "here's the deal" section . . .

i'm looking forward to strick10's post about the deserter info - thank you strick10 in advance! also(not directed to strick10 cause i'm sure they'll need some down time after that project) but wondering whether there's different spousal testimony rules (when both are active and/or enlisted) in the military courts. i keep on going back to why cesar is more afraid of the MC. i keep on thinking back to those 2 myspace(?) threats and what happened to the investigation . . . tia as i'm still tax-impaired today!

imo [/*]

Lot's of earlier risers on this board!! Lynn Gwenny posted the MCO link regarding desertion on the Maria links board yesterday. I haven't had a chance to read but will find time today. Lynn G also posted a very useful site regarding desertion on the links page coming from Headquarters Marine Corps.

http://hqinet001.hqmc.usmc.mil/pp&o/...Collection.asp

In regards to married Marines. I'm not sure if there's anything in writing or if there's anything written about spousal testimony, but IME my DH and I weren't considered married when wearing the uniform if that makes sense. Yes the MC was aware we were married but once we put on the uniform and/or reported to our appointed places we were simply considered Marines not a couple.

I believe it is thought Christina left the party around 6:30 p and with the driving time arrived home at 7 pm.

jmo

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box [*]I believe it is thought Christina left the party around 6:30 p and with the driving time arrived home at 7 pm.

jmo [/*]

I believe you're right Squawk. IIRC LE reported that Christina arrived home around 7 pm.

[caejde]

Originally posted by strick10 [*]

I believe you're right Squawk. IIRC LE reported that Christina arrived home around 7 pm. [/*]

I believe it was Capt. Sutherland who stated that.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Squawk Box [*]I believe it is thought Christina left the party around 6:30 p and with the driving time arrived home at 7 pm.

jmo [/*]

That seems to be the consensus of OPINION, but I can't recall if LE has ever specifically stated what time she arrived home. Perhaps someone with a better memory for that detail will help us clear up that confusion.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by AnnieBean [*]

Thanks for bringing this up, I don;'t think we EVER got an official return time, I think in the beginning we all SPECULATED 6:30 or so because we SPECULATED the kid was in daycare and dayscares last pick-ups are 6:30 and no later, at most daycare centers....I honestly think thats where the 6:30 timeframe came from- us- because I have never seen it in writing. hey, we could be correct, but a nice reliable time from LE would be very cool....

jmo [/*]

Greta asked Captain Sutherland that question and he is the one that confirmed she returned home around 7 pm.

She, like any lawyer asked him the direction question that only required a yes or no answer, iirc.

Something like (example) "Is it true that Christina came home around 7pm from the party that night?" He said "yes"

imoo

[cuppajoe]

If Maria Lauterbach really did commit suicide why didn't CL tell his wife as soon as she got home? Why would he hide that from her? This is one of the things that I don't understand and will cause CL many problems at trial I think.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by cuppajoe [*]If Maria Lauterbach really did commit suicide why didn't CL tell his wife as soon as she got home? Why would he hide that from her? This is one of the things that I don't understand and will cause CL many problems at trial I think. [/*]

I guess he didn't tell Christina as soon as she got home because it was simply a lie that Maria killed herself. We know she couldn't have delivered the blow to her own head that caved her skull in & killed her.

I can't imagine what the defense will be at trial, but my pure guess is that his attorneys will NOT even begin to suggest that Maria killed herself. I can see them attempting to shift the blame & say the DA can't prove that Cesar was the one who killed her, but I don't see the defense denying that the blow to the head was the cause of death.

JMO

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze [*]

Greta asked Captain Sutherland that question and he is the one that confirmed she returned home around 7 pm.

She, like any lawyer asked him the direction question that only required a yes or no answer, iirc.

Something like (example) "Is it true that Christina came home around 7pm from the party that night?" He said "yes"

imoo [/*]

A good follow-up question would have been, "did she leave the house after that at any time?"....was she gone long?.....etc. Alas, we just don't know that.

[strick10]

Originally posted by SavannahStar [*]

A good follow-up question would have been, "did she leave the house after that at any time?"....was she gone long?.....etc. Alas, we just don't know that. [/*]

That would certainly clear up alot of suspicion surrounding CSL.

[henry]

Originally posted by strick10 [*]
Lot's of earlier risers on this board!! Lynn Gwenny posted the MCO link regarding desertion on the Maria links board yesterday. I haven't had a chance to read but will find time today. Lynn G also posted a very useful site regarding desertion on the links page coming from Headquarters Marine Corps.

http://hqinet001.hqmc.usmc.mil/pp&o/...Collection.asp

In regards to married Marines. I'm not sure if there's anything in writing or if there's anything written about spousal testimony, but IME my DH and I weren't considered married when wearing the uniform if that makes sense. Yes the MC was aware we were married but once we put on the uniform and/or reported to our appointed places we were simply considered Marines not a couple. [/*]

thanks so much . . . going over there now to read - didn't mean to put you in an awkward position of doing it, but noticed your post last nite - i'll go & read so you have more time to help someone else ( non mc people - are you getting tired of us yet )- thanks, again!

[strick10]

Originally posted by henry [*]

thanks so much . . . going over there now to read - didn't mean to put you in an awkward position of doing it, but noticed your post last nite - i'll go & read so you have more time to help someone else ( non mc people - are you getting tired of us yet )- thanks, again! [/*]

I'll save you some time henry. This particular MCO addressed deserters and what actions to take, chapter 5, but does not address those actions against persons that fail to report the whereabouts etc. of a deserter. I'll keep looking as well. Thanks for the help!

[strick10]

Caedje......other than the 5800.16A do you have any ideas where to look to find out the procedures for those knowing the status of deserters? (the 1620.3 or a DOD directive)?

[Mimi428]

This was the #1 question that nuttintodo sent to Rick Sutherland - & his answer.

1) Do you know when the Christmas party began and ended on 12/14/07 (the one where Christina Laurean attended but her husband did not)? Was their child at a babysitter or with either of the Laurean's on 12/14?

We know the answers to these questions, we can not release the info at this time.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/sh...a#post11338403

On the thread entitled Emailed questions and response from Rick Sutherland dated 3/6/08, thread started by nuttintodo.

[Mimi428]

Same link as above, Capt. Sutherland, by comparison, gives a more definitive answer to question #12 - copied & pasted here. . .

12) What time did Daniel Durham arrive home on 12/14/07?

I believe it was around 5:30pm

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Mimi428 [*]This was the #1 question that nuttintodo sent to Rick Sutherland - & his answer.

1) Do you know when the Christmas party began and ended on 12/14/07 (the one where Christina Laurean attended but her husband did not)? Was their child at a babysitter or with either of the Laurean's on 12/14?

We know the answers to these questions, we can not release the info at this time.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/sh...a#post11338403

On the thread entitled Emailed questions and response from Rick Sutherland dated 3/6/08, thread started by nuttintodo. [/*]

Interesting, this question asks what time the party ended but not what time Christina got home. Which GB recalls Greta asked RS and was answered. (I do think, "what time did Christina get home from the party?" is a better question than what time the party ended.)

Originally posted by SavannahStar [*]

Interesting, this question asks what time the party ended but not what time Christina got home. Which GB recalls Greta asked RS and was answered. (I do think, "what time did Christina get home from the party?" is a better question than what time the party ended.) [/*]

I agree. It doesn't matter what time the party ended it only matters what time Christina left. Actually that is part of what establishes Christina's alibi. jmo

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by sherryhefner [*]

*snipped*

Xtina had to know.....I just can't find any way around it, even though I've tried. [/*]

Well frankly it is understandably puzzling to most people. However, I still firmly believe LE knows more details than we do and are satisfied with what they know about the timeline.

There are pieces of the puzzling missing, that's quite obvious. But I just believe those are pieces WE don't have but others do.

I really believe we'll have answers some day and we all might be shocked.

IMO.

Originally posted by sherryhefner [*]To me, the biggest issue is the time line we have.

If CL alone killed Maria while Xtina was at the party, he would have had to done all the clean up, clean up himself, do the patch up work and start painting. In addition, he would have had to dig a hole to bury Maria....and we know how long digging a whole in this red clay done here takes. Then he would have to compose himself to pull off this entire scene so that Xtina would not be the least bit suspicious. Oh yeah, and he had to get rid of the car.
Whew! I'm tired thinking about it....

If we suppose that he waited to bury the body, that means he would have to dig a hole pretty soon (because the body was probably hid in the trunk? would he risk discovery by Xtina or LE or anyone else by doing this?)....then he would have to wait until night time when the neighbors were definitely asleep and get the body (blood and all) into the hole without being caught....and without Xtina waking up and finding him with the body in the backyard. Plus, more cleanup. Wow....he might could pull this off but I doubt it.

Xtina had to know.....I just can't find any way around it, even though I've tried. [/*]

Obviously there is a way around it since LE and the DA have made it clear she was not involved in the murder or cover up IIRC. They know much more then we do.

When RS said, in answer to a question sent to him by us, if they had probable cause to charge her they would. That was a big hint. imo

Posters stated they would not believe Christina was not involved until cleared by LE. Now she has been, by LE and the DA. Now LE and the DA aren't believed. I just don't get it.

Am I missing something here?

jmo

[cuppajoe]

Originally posted by Mimi428 [*]

I guess he didn't tell Christina as soon as she got home because it was simply a lie that Maria killed herself. We know she couldn't have delivered the blow to her own head that caved her skull in & killed her.

I can't imagine what the defense will be at trial, but my pure guess is that his attorneys will NOT even begin to suggest that Maria killed herself. I can see them attempting to shift the blame & say the DA can't prove that Cesar was the one who killed her, but I don't see the defense denying that the blow to the head was the cause of death.

JMO [/*]

Yes it's a lie but why the lie to Christina? If she did commit suicide that would mean he was innocent. I guess I think this is important because I think they will go with her suicide as their defense.

All they need is a forensic expert to tell the jury it could not be ruled out and that the fx's on the skull were there because of the high heat from the fire. The Phil Spector trial comes to mind, it only takes one juror to not understand forensics and reasonable doubt I think.

Your idea is good to.

[strick10]

Lynn Gweeny
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2005
Location:
Posts: 4026

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Janz [*]

TY strick, I`ll be looking for your post, since INTREGITY seems to be the word today. [/*]
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Janz

strick will certainly be able to provide better information regarding a military member assisting or aiding another military member from being apprehended, etc. but I just quickly found this information:

Can my friends and family get in trouble for helping me while I’m in a deserter status?

Yes!

According to the US Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter 67, Paragraph 1381, there are significant penalties that may be levied on those who assist deserters, as noted below:

“Whoever entices or procures, or attempts or endeavors to entice or procure any person in the Armed forces of the United States, or who has been recruited for service therein, to desert therefrom, or aids any such person in deserting or in attempting to desert from such service, or:

Whoever harbors, conceals, protects, or assists any such person who may have deserted from such service, knowing him to have deserter therefrom, or refuses to give up and deliver such person on the demand of any officer authorized to receive him:

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.”

http://hqinet001.hqmc.usmc.mil/pp&o...eCollection.asp


__________________
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~ Dr. Seuss

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bringing over Lynn Gweenys post from yesterday. I've looked at 4 MC Orders, DOD Directives and SevNavInst and have not found the order that specifically states punishment for those knowing the whereabouts etc. of a deserter. I will keep looking but until I find something the hqmc link above is a great find by Lynn.

[caejde]

Originally posted by strick10 [*]Caedje......other than the 5800.16A do you have any ideas where to look to find out the procedures for those knowing the status of deserters? (the 1620.3 or a DOD directive)? [/*]

Could she be charged with Article 78-Accessory after the Fact?
“Any person subject to this chapter who, knowing that an offense punishable by this chapter has been committed, receives, comforts, or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial, or punishment shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/...o/mcm/bl78.htm

[caejde]

Originally posted by caejde [*]

Could she be charged with Article 78-Accessory after the Fact?
“Any person subject to this chapter who, knowing that an offense punishable by this chapter has been committed, receives, comforts, or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial, or punishment shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/...o/mcm/bl78.htm [/*]

Just wanted to add that if she had been told by someone in her command that she was to notify them if she had any contact and she did not do so, then she disobeyed an order.

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by Squawk Box [*]

Obviously there is a way around it since LE and the DA have made it clear she was not involved in the murder or cover up IIRC. They know much more then we do.

When RS said, in answer to a question sent to him by us, if they had probable cause to charge her they would. That was a big hint. imo

Posters stated they would not believe Christina was not involved until cleared by LE. Now she has been, by LE and the DA. Now LE and the DA aren't believed. I just don't get it.

Am I missing something here?

jmo [/*]

I'm sticking with my theory that LE and the DA need CSL to be santized in the public eye to bolster her credibility as a witness. What she has to say will be vital and critical to a conviction.

JMO and all that, of course.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by cuppajoe [*]If Maria Lauterbach really did commit suicide why didn't CL tell his wife as soon as she got home? Why would he hide that from her? This is one of the things that I don't understand and will cause CL many problems at trial I think. [/*]

We really don't know what he told his wife or when IMO. We have only her story and some letters that seem to benefit keeping her afloat at the present time....

But MY MONEY says ED BROWN is not giving her a GREEN LIGHT, but rather is operating with CAUTION....JMO THO.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BROWN: That is what we have been told by her. I know there`s been a lot of speculations. However, we have to deal with the facts that we know and can prove. And at this time, as strange as it may sound to the average citizen, it`s possible that she did not know this had taken place. I said possible. Stranger things have happened, but...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../11/ng.01.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JMO

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Marcia3 [*]

I'm sticking with my theory that LE and the DA need CSL to be santized in the public eye to bolster her credibility as a witness. What she has to say will be vital and critical to a conviction.

JMO and all that, of course. [/*]

Marcia, we still don't know if she was asked any questions when the federal authorities showed up at her sister's house either.

I would like to know if that could present a problem if she was not honest about being in touch with her husband who was on the FBI's MOST WANTED LIST before they took the computer and diary and whatever else they took.

Nevertheless, Dewey doesn't sound too confident of her innocence here, just placating IMO.

Time will tell....

http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/2724205/

(35 seconds into the video)

This was after the press conference IMO.

[strick10]

Originally posted by caejde [*]

Could she be charged with Article 78-Accessory after the Fact?
“Any person subject to this chapter who, knowing that an offense punishable by this chapter has been committed, receives, comforts, or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial, or punishment shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/...o/mcm/bl78.htm [/*]

Thanks caejde. So in reality CSL could be in a bit of trouble with the MC for not telling them she was in contact with CAL, a deserter. Speaking of contact.....have you heard that it was a J'ville News comments individual that discovered that CSL and CAL were making contact via myspace and had been turning over the page links to the LE? From what I understand CAL was changing his myspace page frequently under different names etc.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by caejde [*]

Just wanted to add that if she had been told by someone in her command that she was to notify them if she had any contact and she did not do so, then she disobeyed an order. [/*]

Hmmmm.....thanks for that tidbit caejde. I wondered if OCSD asked her to notify them before too.

It only stands to reason and she would be the only person I know who is dressed up in integrity after NOT NOTIFYING them IMO.

Is her attorney a defense attorney?

[caejde]

Originally posted by strick10 [*]

Thanks caejde. So in reality CSL could be in a bit of trouble with the MC for not telling them she was in contact with CAL, a deserter. Speaking of contact.....have you heard that it was a J'ville News comments individual that discovered that CSL and CAL were making contact via myspace and had been turning over the page links to the LE? From what I understand CAL was changing his myspace page frequently under different names etc. [/*]

Sure. I was going through the UCMJ and looking at the articles to see if she could be charged with anything under that. Looks like there could be a couple different options...to me anyway. I had read that it was a friend or someone who had thought Christina was a victim but then found out they were communicating and turned stuff over to LE...I'll say JMO though.