April 10th to 19

[n/t]

It's been 8 weeks and Nicholas is still missing. We may have some of the answers but many many questions still remain.

Continued prayers that he is safe.

[Nellie]

quote:
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Originally posted by decor [*]

except that Scott was suspected of killing Laci. CF is NOT suspected of killing NF [/*]
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Yes, but the point is....why was everyone so suspicious of him?
It wasn't because we witnessed him dumping her body! It was
his body language, things he said, things that he did (like selling her vehicle and trying to sell the house). Yes, he was suspected.....on no proof. Do I suspect C of killing N. Not necessarily, but I'm not dismissing it just because it's a husband missing this time. She's doing some of the same things Scott did......contradicting herself, strange body language, moving from her home and putting her past behind her and starting a new life in such a short time. I was just saying that's why people have a hard time with her being ready to move out so fast. It was in answer to someone questioning why people had a hard time with it.

[Nellie]

I have to wonder why/how it is better to move into another home rather than try to work out something with a present home she owned. Yes, it is a RENT FREE home now, but how long does anyone think it will be Rent free? I don't think it will stay that way forever, do you? So, once the owners decide it's time to charge rent, then what? Many times rent can cost as much or more than a mortgage payment. So, how is this better in the long run? It might seem better right now, but looking at the "big picture" I think it could turn out to be a bad move. I still feel the bank would have worked with her.

I guess I feel the rent free home is a "band-aid" and could cause more problems down the road than staying and trying to hang onto her home she owned (along with the bank). JMO

[Shimz]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MystryPhobia [*]

I don't know how that works. Would they approve it for the $50 or for the amount he wanted plus the fee before giving him the cash? I would think if it was the ATM charge (which.. THAT is a big fee.. isn't it? I don't know what the fees are anymore cause I always use my bank ATM's only) then they would try to approve the $54 transaction and if he didn't have enough then he would have to enter a different amount. I don't know tho.. I don't use alot of ATM machines because I have my debit card that I use for everything and just get cash back from that.. if I need it. [/*]
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I have 2 checking accounts, one I hardly use, and the bank was bought out recently... anyway.. I went to take out $20 from the one i hardly use bc it was right there and i didnt want to pay a fee and they gave me the money no problem. Then I get a letter that i was being charged a $33 overdraft fee...

apparently this bank now will give you money from the ATM even if you don't have the money in there. I had NEVER had that happen before, if I didn't have enough, it wouldn't let me take it out. So when I called, she told me that they are doing this bc in case it is an EMERGENCY and you NEED the money, they give it.

So i ended up paying $30 to take out $20, I was very angry about this new "convenience rule"... so I guess my point is that it depends on the bank =)

Originally posted by Nellie [*]I have to wonder why/how it is better to move into another home rather than try to work out something with a present home she owned. Yes, it is a RENT FREE home now, but how long does anyone think it will be Rent free? I don't think it will stay that way forever, do you? So, once the owners decide it's time to charge rent, then what? Many times rent can cost as much or more than a mortgage payment. So, how is this better in the long run? It might seem better right now, but looking at the "big picture" I think it could turn out to be a bad move. I still feel the bank would have worked with her.

I guess I feel the rent free home is a "band-aid" and could cause more problems down the road than staying and trying to hang onto her home she owned (along with the bank). JMO [/*]

I have to agree with you, Nellie. The bank really doesn't want another house it has to try to sell so I think they would've worked with her, especially due to the unusual circumstances.

Isn't the old owner (CF and NF in this case) still liable for any money left on the mortgage that isn't covered by what they get out of the sale of the house? If that's the case and I believe it is, she still could have a bunch to pay off, especially with the real estate market what it is today (unless its in better shape in Seattle than it is in many other parts of the country).

I'm surprised a "financial advisor" would advise this especially if the mortage was paid up through April as I've heard (of course this may not be true).

It just seems there must be other reasons for her moving so quickly! MOO

Originally posted by Nellie [*]I have to wonder why/how it is better to move into another home rather than try to work out something with a present home she owned. Yes, it is a RENT FREE home now, but how long does anyone think it will be Rent free? I don't think it will stay that way forever, do you? So, once the owners decide it's time to charge rent, then what? Many times rent can cost as much or more than a mortgage payment. So, how is this better in the long run? It might seem better right now, but looking at the "big picture" I think it could turn out to be a bad move. I still feel the bank would have worked with her.

I guess I feel the rent free home is a "band-aid" and could cause more problems down the road than staying and trying to hang onto her home she owned (along with the bank). JMO [/*]

She now has 0 income or will have shortly. She is pregnant. She doesn't have the education to get a good job and her payments with two mortgages is most likely $1500 or more a month. Now she will most likely get no more then 1077 + food stamps from the state once she runs out of money. Or she might be able to get a job paying around 10 an hour so around 1733 a month BEFORE taxes and day care.

Want to tell me how she will be paying for this house, utilities, repairs, and on and on?

Sometimes a band-aid is all you have.

[desmom]

Originally posted by Silver_Dove [*]

She now has 0 income or will have shortly. She is pregnant. She doesn't have the education to get a good job and her payments with two mortgages is most likely $1500 or more a month. Now she will most likely get no more then 1077 + food stamps from the state once she runs out of money. Or she might be able to get a job paying around 10 an hour so around 1733 a month BEFORE taxes and day care.

Want to tell me how she will be paying for this house, utilities, repairs, and on and on?

Sometimes a band-aid is all you have. [/*]

Re Education: IIRC, she graduated from the Art Institute of Seattle with a major in graphic design and a minor in photography. I would hope the approx. $50,000 in tuition fees would have provided her with enough education to find a job.

Because she is pregnant and with 2 children under the age of 5 at home, she would qualify for WIC and child care assistance.

jmo

Originally posted by desmom [*]

Re Education: IIRC, she graduated from the Art Institute of Seattle with a major in graphic design and a minor in photography. I would hope the approx. $50,000 in tuition fees would have provided her with enough education to find a job.

Because she is pregnant and with 2 children under the age of 5 at home, she would qualify for WIC and child care assistance.

jmo [/*]

I have a friend who graduated from the Art Institute of Seattle. She worked selling house paint. Degrees in art are a dime a dozen here. There just aren't enough jobs to go around.

[Musterion]

Originally posted by Curiouser [*]

I have to agree with you, Nellie. The bank really doesn't want another house it has to try to sell so I think they would've worked with her, especially due to the unusual circumstances.

Isn't the old owner (CF and NF in this case) still liable for any money left on the mortgage that isn't covered by what they get out of the sale of the house? If that's the case and I believe it is, she still could have a bunch to pay off, especially with the real estate market what it is today (unless its in better shape in Seattle than it is in many other parts of the country).

I'm surprised a "financial advisor" would advise this especially if the mortage was paid up through April as I've heard (of course this may not be true).

It just seems there must be other reasons for her moving so quickly! MOO [/*]

Hi Curiouser,

There is something called "deed in lieu of foreclosure". From my understanding the bank agrees to take the house back and the owner is not liable. Maybe that is something being done in this case.

I don't know what arrangements would be made to gain Nicholas' signature on the documents. Sometimes a Public Announcement for a specific amount of time in newspapers across the country are used with intent of legal action listed. Examples would be to find a person for a court case on divorce, child custody, etc. The PA would be along with a summons of a court date delivered to the last known residence. If the defendant doesn't answer the petition or show up for court, I believe they are viewed in default and the judge signs the order of divorce or custody, etc. Maybe this can be done with needing to sell a house and not being able to find the other deed holder? Maybe someone else can verify that and speak more knowledgeably.

JMO.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by Silver_Dove [*]

She now has 0 income or will have shortly. She is pregnant. She doesn't have the education to get a good job and her payments with two mortgages is most likely $1500 or more a month. Now she will most likely get no more then 1077 + food stamps from the state once she runs out of money. Or she might be able to get a job paying around 10 an hour so around 1733 a month BEFORE taxes and day care.

Want to tell me how she will be paying for this house, utilities, repairs, and on and on?

Sometimes a band-aid is all you have. [/*]

You made my point!
What if the "free house" situation is only for 6 months....9 months....1 year. Then what? How will she then pay rent? Get a job paying around $10.00 an hour before taxes and daycare? What will she do then? Want to tell me how she will be paying rent, utilities, etc. when that happens?

I guess I would be thinking of what I need to do to bring in my own income for my future, rather than count on "free rent" from someone. But, I guess I'm more independent and wouldn't want to take "free rent" because I'd feel there would be "expectations" and I'd feel like I was under someone else's "thumb". I'd look for ways to hang onto my own home, which would mean independence for me.

Start up a Daycare! She could make some really good money at that! My kids pay $75.00-$100.00 a week for daycare. Say the lady takes in 10 kids @ $100.00 a week...wow, that's $1000 a week! Sounds like a plan Stan! She'd even be able to be home with her own children! And I bet daycare pays even more in Seattle...we live in a small town.

Originally posted by Nellie [*]

You made my point!
What if the "free house" situation is only for 6 months....9 months....1 year. Then what? How will she then pay rent? Get a job paying around $10.00 an hour before taxes and daycare? What will she do then? Want to tell me how she will be paying rent, utilities, etc. when that happens?

I guess I would be thinking of what I need to do to bring in my own income for my future, rather than count on "free rent" from someone. But, I guess I'm more independent and wouldn't want to take "free rent" because I'd feel there would be "expectations" and I'd feel like I was under someone else's "thumb". I'd look for ways to hang onto my own home, which would mean independence for me.

Start up a Daycare! She could make some really good money at that! My kids pay $75.00-$100.00 a week for daycare. Say the lady takes in 10 kids @ $100.00 a week...wow, that's $1000 a week! Sounds like a plan Stan! She'd even be able to be home with her own children! And I bet daycare pays even more in Seattle...we live in a small town. [/*]

Wow you are really a super person. I wish I could have been as strong and brilliant as you are. Must be wonderful to know how to react when your whole world is crashing down on you with no way to stop it. Some of us aren't as brilliant and have to try to solve one problem at a time. She has given up a house she couldn't afford to keep up and has a safe place to plan her next move now. Sometimes that all you can do.

Originally posted by Nellie [*]

You made my point!
What if the "free house" situation is only for 6 months....9 months....1 year. Then what? How will she then pay rent? Get a job paying around $10.00 an hour before taxes and daycare? What will she do then? Want to tell me how she will be paying rent, utilities, etc. when that happens?

I guess I would be thinking of what I need to do to bring in my own income for my future, rather than count on "free rent" from someone. But, I guess I'm more independent and wouldn't want to take "free rent" because I'd feel there would be "expectations" and I'd feel like I was under someone else's "thumb". I'd look for ways to hang onto my own home, which would mean independence for me.

Start up a Daycare! She could make some really good money at that! My kids pay $75.00-$100.00 a week for daycare. Say the lady takes in 10 kids @ $100.00 a week...wow, that's $1000 a week! Sounds like a plan Stan! She'd even be able to be home with her own children! And I bet daycare pays even more in Seattle...we live in a small town. [/*]

Daycare pays like you would not BELIEVE, where I live. I know because I'm paying for it. But starting up a daycare is not without cost or licensing fees, or credentials, etc.

IMO a) she has a degree, which, no matter what it is in, counts for something when looking for work, and *) she has talent and tech savvy, and I have no doubt that *when she is ready* she can find a decent paying job. If I were in a position to do so, I would offer her a WFH gig, with flex hours, within current market rates.

But THIS IS NOT THE TIME for her to be pounding the pavement for any sort of standard paycheck. Another family has seen fit to give her and her kids a safe place in which to settle and sort out the next steps, and their recovery and establishing of routine is top priority. God bless those people and God bless her and her children as they make their way through the next however long without Nicholas.

And speaking of Nicholas, what's the consensus now? Is he dead? Is he alive somewhere and living la vida loca? How are we, or how is she, going to find him and settle all these questions?

Originally posted by Silver_Dove [*]

I so agree with this. I haven't thought of him as a "good guy" for sometime now and I have come to think of Christine and her children as the victims of his "secret life" [/*]

I go back and forth about him. Today I have felt he is a real rat *******. And I can't figure out anymore whether I think he is alive or not.

Has anyone established a link for where CF says he is leading a secret life? I don't mean where LE or Harlett conveyed it; I mean something straight from CF. Because, even at risk of the rest of you mocking me, I can't quite believe she has said it, if I don't see it in her own words.

One thing is sure: his daughter is hurting because of this. If it is of his own volition, how bad of him. If it is by random or premeditated foul play, LET'S FIND HIM. Otherwise she may go many years assuming responsibility for his being gone. It is no way for a little girl to grow up.

Originally posted by CAT TOY [*] Well so that you didnt have to sign up I posted what pretty much he said...it was very brief, there was nothing more than that. No posts, no photos, nothing more than a short q & a and the cryptic note, 2nd of which I've read now; usually a little touchy on the topic of "who are you" type of question. I can't c&p the page and post it here. So it is not word for word but that is the jist of what he wrote on classmates. There were no connections listed...that I could see; nothing on that front. Dont know if he's a reunion kinda guy.. [/*]

I am not a reunion person at all, and that's why I don't sign up there. So -- many thanks!!

Has anyone visited his high school alumni pages? I admit I don't know what high school he went to, but... I do visit my own periodically and sometimes there's information available that you wouldn't expect. Just something to look at.

Originally posted by CAT TOY [*]

omg that's right!!!

(dont ANY ONE SUGGEST SHE WORK) esp whilst preggers...



GMAB [/*]

Ok. Instead, suggest that she work while pregnant (with history of miscarriage), while trying to find her husband (who she just found out shocking things about), and while trying to keep her children safe and soothed while they try to understand why the heck they are suddenly without one of their two parents. And suggest that she get some kind of whatever job that may or may not pay a mortgage AND necessitate daycare -- and pay for daycare -- for two kids?

Kind of unreasonable! She's going to need some help, and !! *someone is giving her help*. THANK GOD.

And FWIW, a Yahoo article on stolen laptops

http://tech.yahoo.com/blog/null/88341

[inv]

Originally posted by Silver_Dove [*]

I so agree with this. I haven't thought of him as a "good guy" for sometime now and I have come to think of Christine and her children as the victims of his "secret life" [/*]

Do you happen to know what his "secret life" may be?

Do you know Nicholas?

Do you KNOW Christine?

How do you know that NF's wife and children are not the SURVIVORS of *him as a victim* rather than victims of HIM?

I am sorry, but I had to reply to this post. How did you arrive at the conclusion that NF was/is not a "good guy"?

Please ellaborate on how you are basing this comment.

[inv]

moonlessnite
Member

Registered: Mar 2008
Location:
Posts: 120
"I'm not clear if this will post as a reply or new thread. Anyway, I live in South Seattle and Christine is a casual acquaintance of mine, and I have seen Nicholas around once or twice. I've been wanting to post a comment but it took forever to get activated here. Since my experience of Christine's personality is coming from in-person interactions and not from online forums or the etsy community, I thought it may add a layer to the discussion.

When I first realized it was Christine who was the wife of the local missing man, I immediately thought, oh well, he left her. And then I thought, she knows something. All concern of a missing man in the area went away as I was confident it was a domestic dispute situation. The first responses of a few other casual acquaintances of hers were, "oh, she finally drove him away", and "maybe she killed him off". The reason many of us thought this is because of the way she talked, and talked and talked - that she drove him crazy pestering him and boring him all the time, basically.
We tried to avoid letting her start talking, as she would go on forever about herself, even in situations where that was inappropriate. She was unaware of the environment around her and how she affects other people, and how to behave. Her monologues about herself, and being a wife and mother (no identity otherwise?) were very emphatic and forceful, and she certainly would use forceful tones and a challenging defensiveness in order to make her thoughts heard and agreed with. She also appeared to be someone who did very little outside the house and had a complex about this and her outside abilities (lack thereof), and overcompensated by insisting on the importance of her AHM (at home mother) job.

An aspect related to this I'd like to offer, having "experienced her personality" is the likelihood of a personality disorder, which could explain this situation. I noticed her behavior in my interactions with her to be similar to narcissistic behavior, and I feel she could have NPD (narcissistic personality disorder). http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_Narscissist
Narcissistic people will go to extreme lengths to protect their fragile sense of identity if it's threatened. Normal behavior and actions are not considered. Protecting the self is the goal and it must be achieved at all costs.
I never thought she killed Nicholas off, but when it was suggested, I accepted it as a possibility. But I do think if he left her, she knew it, and her actions have been to cover her embarrassment and protect herself, by lying until she believes it herself.
This is why she won't go to vigils (she's pissed off, not mourning) and why she won't look for him.
I don't know why he would leave the kids w/o money, but I do know people w/o options do desperate things. He was always smiling and friendly, but I don't know anything else about him except something in his personality was interested in marrying a narcissist. It takes 2 to tango. I see him as a youthful, energetic, charming man who likely has many other relationship possibilities available to him.
Also, your "Saturn Return" http://newage-directory.com/saturn.html happens at 28, and is a time to revise life if it does not suit your true self.

I found Christine's actions related to this situation questionable, and her behavior was not lining up with the story. I felt badly for thinking this way, wanting to be compassionate and give the benefit of the doubt. So, I was very comforted to see on so many forums that so many other people who have or have not met her feel the same way and question her as well.
What bothered me immediately (so many things have bothered me since and you have all pointed them out thankfully) about this case is her very first interview wherein she stated "if you don't find him these kids won't have a daddy", etc. The fact that she placed responsibility for finding him on "you" (police?, media?), and that she went to the worst case scenario so early on, in front of her children, felt off, to me. As if she knew he left her and she could not find him as he didn't want to be found by her, and to guilt him that his kids won't have a daddy.

Knowing the people involved in this kind of thing is weird, and having the impression that I have of them makes me really want to have the truth be known, whatever is turns out to be exactly. If this woman is perpetuating a hoax (and financial scam), it should be known and she should face the repercussions. If she did worse than that, she should be caught. I hope the detectives can see through her transparent behavior and keep an eye on her.
OK, I think this is long enough and I've said
everything I've been wanting to say now..."



I had not seen this post until tonight. It was refferred to on another board. During my two-week or so conversations with CF, I got the same impression. I was sympathetic towards her. As time went on, I began to notice how she would answer my questions in a way that she emphasized her own needs, wants, desires, misfortunes, etc.

When I asked questions about NF, and what was being done to find him, she displayed an almost immediate need to change the subject to something about the house, finances, etc.

I got the sense that she was angry. She seemed to be angry with NF and angry at everyone who may have views or ideas which oppesed her own.

I am left with the impression that it was all CF all the time in their home.

These are just my thoughts, having had ono-on-one communication with CF. My opinions are just that. They are opinions based upon my direct communication with her, not based upon hearsay or what I found on a message board.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Silver_Dove [*]

I so agree with this. I haven't thought of him as a "good guy" for sometime now and I have come to think of Christine and her children as the victims of his "secret life" [/*]

Amazing - LE has not ruled out foul play and Nicholas could very well be dead (murdered I believe CF said) and you still don't think of him as a victim. To my knowledge he is still missing and is still "the victim" until proven otherwise.

[n/t]

Originally posted by K Anne [*]

Ok. Instead, suggest that she work while pregnant (with history of miscarriage), while trying to find her husband (who she just found out shocking things about), and while trying to keep her children safe and soothed while they try to understand why the heck they are suddenly without one of their two parents. And suggest that she get some kind of whatever job that may or may not pay a mortgage AND necessitate daycare -- and pay for daycare -- for two kids?

Kind of unreasonable! She's going to need some help, and !! *someone is giving her help*. THANK GOD.

And FWIW, a Yahoo article on stolen laptops

http://tech.yahoo.com/blog/null/88341 [/*]

She found out shocking things about? Do you have a link to where the wife claims this? As far as I know, the detective was the one who said Nicholas may have lead a secret life? There was nothing ever mentioned about a shocking secret life.

Please tell us where you heard this. TIA!

[n/t]

Originally posted by inv [*]


Do you happen to know what his "secret life" may be?

Do you know Nicholas?

Do you KNOW Christine?

How do you know that NF's wife and children are not the SURVIVORS of *him as a victim* rather than victims of HIM?

I am sorry, but I had to reply to this post. How did you arrive at the conclusion that NF was/is not a "good guy"?

Please ellaborate on how you are basing this comment. [/*]

Maybe we're hanging out on the wrong board. KAnne mentioned something about the wife finding out something shocking?

How do posters come to the conclusion that Nicholas is this bad bad guy now without having any evidence whatsoever of what this secret may be? We don't even know if it was even a secret. We only have the wife's word that she didn't know anything about it. What if she did?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Mornin n/t

I just looked up at the title and it still says "Nicholas Francisco 28, Seattle, 2-13-08 (car found), so I'm assuming this forum is still about HIM, not Christine.

[Postergeist]

Originally posted by n/t



Maybe we're hanging out on the wrong board. KAnne mentioned something about the wife finding out something shocking?

How do posters come to the conclusion that Nicholas is this bad bad guy now without having any evidence whatsoever of what this secret may be? We don't even know if it was even a secret. We only have the wife's word that she didn't know anything about it. What if she did?

Mornin' n/t! I've been reading the past few days and keep thinking how convoluted this case seems to be getting. The "nevers", the "always" the "wouldn'ts" and "I knows" from a key partner of the missing husband, what LE has said, the interesting post by inv...and yes, I too have thought about NPD being a part of the puzzle in his disappearance.

A book I've been reading had a paragraph that just struck a chord with me and the disappearance of Nicholas. It mentioned
"memory always gives way to desire".....

It was in reference to Frederich Nietzsche's comments on when our memory of having committed an ignoble act conflicts with our desire to believe that we are "too honorable" to have possibly committed the deed...

that in effect people lie when it suits their purpose, to protect someone, when they don't want something to be known, etc.

It's just not appearing to be Camelot anymore with this MP case, imo.

~still I have hope for Nicholas to be found alive~

[Cury-us Coyote]

Originally posted by Silver_Dove [*]

I have a friend who graduated from the Art Institute of Seattle. She worked selling house paint. Degrees in art are a dime a dozen here. There just aren't enough jobs to go around. [/*]

Is that a 50-50 split on career paths testimonals after a Seattle Art Institute degree? NF graduates and obtains a Publicis graphic designer job while person X gradates to a Sherwin Williams-like sales clerk job. Perhaps other factors are in play. According to CF's myspace she is a self-proclaimed entrepreneur.
jmo

[Miss Behavin]

Well, I have to say "thank you" to INV for the post and bringing over the post by moonlessnite. I hadn't seen that one yet!

It's nice to hear from people who have actually been involved in some type of conversation with the wife or family of NF. I've had bad feelings about this case from the very beginning and I still believe the wife knew he was going to leave JMO. I also feel all the interviews begging the public to find him was a way for the wife to fight back in her way and guilt or embarrass him into returning home. JMO.

The wife has access to the internet herself and many avenues in which to express her feelings and thoughts about this ordeal. If somebody posts something that isn't true, she surely has the capability of posting her responses on a site of her choice. It would be more beneficial for her at this point to step forward, tell all that she knows, and be done with it. I think honesty in this situation would be more likely to grant her the results she is looking for. JMO

[Musterion]

Originally posted by sadiemay62 [*]

They are only victims IF he indeed had a secret life. We don't know that for sure yet. How about waiting to see?? jmo [/*]

Hi sadiemay,

I think they are victims whether he had a secret life or not. He's gone and they are being affected adversely in many ways because of his disappearance. JMO.

[Musterion]

Originally posted by inv [*]
How do you know that NF's wife and children are not the SURVIVORS of *him as a victim* rather than victims of HIM?
[/*]

Hi inv,

I think you are right. They are survivors in the sense that they are carrying on through a loss. But, I believe they are victims as well. Of circumstance if nothing else. JMO.

[dianaelaine]

Haven't been around in awhile ... just thought I'd drop a few links:

About 'who broke the internet':

http://www.mathewingram.com/work/200...-the-internet/

http://twitter.com/michaelDRoe/statuses/784499119

So ... not too much significance in what NF wrote, doesn't seem.

[Cury-us Coyote]

Originally posted by K Anne [*]

Ok. Instead, suggest that she work while pregnant (with history of miscarriage), while trying to find her husband (who she just found out shocking things about), and while trying to keep her children safe and soothed while they try to understand why the heck they are suddenly without one of their two parents. And suggest that she get some kind of whatever job that may or may not pay a mortgage AND necessitate daycare -- and pay for daycare -- for two kids?

Kind of unreasonable! She's going to need some help, and !! *someone is giving her help*. THANK GOD.

And FWIW, a Yahoo article on stolen laptops

http://tech.yahoo.com/blog/null/88341 [/*]

IA, the 'help" is very generous, IMO. IIRC, Seattle's tree house guy was also provided a motorhome for housing. I still wonder why the help is from apparent strangers? Where is CF's family during this crisis? Was renting the home an option considered? IMO, puzzle pieces are missing. Where is Nicholas? TIA
jmo

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by Nellie [*]

You made my point!
What if the "free house" situation is only for 6 months....9 months....1 year. Then what? How will she then pay rent? Get a job paying around $10.00 an hour before taxes and daycare? What will she do then? Want to tell me how she will be paying rent, utilities, etc. when that happens?

I guess I would be thinking of what I need to do to bring in my own income for my future, rather than count on "free rent" from someone. But, I guess I'm more independent and wouldn't want to take "free rent" because I'd feel there would be "expectations" and I'd feel like I was under someone else's "thumb". I'd look for ways to hang onto my own home, which would mean independence for me.

Start up a Daycare! She could make some really good money at that! My kids pay $75.00-$100.00 a week for daycare. Say the lady takes in 10 kids @ $100.00 a week...wow, that's $1000 a week! Sounds like a plan Stan! She'd even be able to be home with her own children! And I bet daycare pays even more in Seattle...we live in a small town. [/*]

The daycare idea might be a good alternative for her til she has the baby. It is very expensive for daycare around here. I paid almost $900 a month when mine were very young and $300 for before and after school care. BUT.. low income families can get help with all or part of daycare expenses from the state and with 3 children and not alot of income.. she would most definately qualify for that if she wanted to utilize it.

The other thing I wanted to add is... I am not sure what small town you live in or even what state but here in Washington the minimum wage is.. I think.. $8.07 an hour. You can work here at McDonalds or other fast food restaurants and make $10 an hour or more. I am really not sure what the market is for her type of work but if she wanted to actively pursue something better than I am sure that she could find something that was more lucrative for her.

[Musterion]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx [*]

Amazing - LE has not ruled out foul play and Nicholas could very well be dead (murdered I believe CF said) and you still don't think of him as a victim. To my knowledge he is still missing and is still "the victim" until proven otherwise. [/*]

I agree, Rainy.

Nicholas is a victim. Until we know if he is dead or alive I think we have to keep that in mind. And even if he is alive he apparently has some things that affected him enough to make choices that caused pain to others and to himself. Unless he is totally void of any emotion he would be suffering, even if it is his own doing. JMO.

[Musterion]

Originally posted by inv [*]
I had not seen this post until tonight. It was refferred to on another board. During my two-week or so conversations with CF, I got the same impression. I was sympathetic towards her. As time went on, I began to notice how she would answer my questions in a way that she emphasized her own needs, wants, desires, misfortunes, etc.

When I asked questions about NF, and what was being done to find him, she displayed an almost immediate need to change the subject to something about the house, finances, etc.

I got the sense that she was angry. She seemed to be angry with NF and angry at everyone who may have views or ideas which oppesed her own.

I am left with the impression that it was all CF all the time in their home.

These are just my thoughts, having had ono-on-one communication with CF. My opinions are just that. They are opinions based upon my direct communication with her, not based upon hearsay or what I found on a message board. [/*]

inv,

Based on your observations and conversations and trying to bring them into line with Nicholas' disappearance I'm trying to understand what, if any, bearing her behaviour or what she's saying has on Nicholas' disappearance.

TIA.

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by EG~Lives [*]

They're victims either way...he's GONE. [/*]

EXACTLY!

whether he ran away and is dealing with his own demons or he met with foul play.. they are still victims. It is just a matter of WHO victimized them.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Musterion [*]

I agree, Rainy.

Nicholas is a victim. Until we know if he is dead or alive I think we have to keep that in mind. And even if he is alive he apparently has some things that affected him enough to make choices that caused pain to others and to himself. Unless he is totally void of any emotion he would be suffering, even if it is his own doing. JMO. [/*]

ITA - I just hate that people are making wild speculations about him and he could be dead floating in a lake that nobody will search.

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by Inv[*]I had not seen this post until tonight. It was refferred to on another board. During my two-week or so conversations with CF, I got the same impression. I was sympathetic towards her. As time went on, I began to notice how she would answer my questions in a way that she emphasized her own needs, wants, desires, misfortunes, etc.

When I asked questions about NF, and what was being done to find him, she displayed an almost immediate need to change the subject to something about the house, finances, etc.

I got the sense that she was angry. She seemed to be angry with NF and angry at everyone who may have views or ideas which oppesed her own.

I am left with the impression that it was all CF all the time in their home.

These are just my thoughts, having had ono-on-one communication with CF. My opinions are just that. They are opinions based upon my direct communication with her, not based upon hearsay or what I found on a message board. [/*]

I'm sorry but IMO moonlessnite had an agenda which was obvious from her very first post. She came here to defame Christine's character and be hostile to anyone that didn't see things her way.

That being said... this the first that I have heard that you were also talking to Christine and am grateful for you observations of your communications with her.

I do think that whether Christine believes that Nic left on his own or if she does indeed think that he is dead somewhere.. that anger is a very normal emotion to have. We all grieve differently and there are many steps to grief that many psychologists have said is the healthy way to grieve... anger is one of them.

As my counselor has always told me. ANGER=PAIN.. if you are not hurt then there is no reason to be angry. When I am hurt.. I automatically just become angry also.. that is easier for me to deal with then the pain and is my way of coping. I don't know that this is true for Christine but it very well could be.

If Nic was murdered then it would be perfectly normal for her to feel anger towards him leaving her.. leaving her raise the children alone... leaving her to have another child without him. Not that he would deserve it or COULD have helped it... but still a normal emotion. If Nic left on his own.. even more so.

As for the making everything about her.. well.. I think that many think that she is a bit narcissistic in her thinking. I think that in her blog that she even said the same when she said that her personality traits shouldn't matter... what should matter is that he is missing. (my paraphrasing) Many people are this way... she is not alone in that at all. I think to some degree we are all like this.. some of us just have a better filter on what comes out of our mouths and when then others of us do.

Originally posted by Musterion [*]

inv,

Based on your observations and conversations and trying to bring them into line with Nicholas' disappearance I'm trying to understand what, if any, bearing her behaviour or what she's saying has on Nicholas' disappearance.

TIA. [/*]

But isn't thay exactly why we are here......to discuss the case? We don't know why he disappeared so her behavior could give us some clues into his life before he left. The spouses behavior has been discussed many times in other "missing' cases.

Some people believe (and I am one) that Christine's behavior/actions seem to point to underlying issues that may be having an effect on the SEARCH for Nicholas. Christine was very vocal in the begining of this case and now it seems that some things that she said may not have been entrirely true. It is natural because she is NF's spouse to wonder why.

Originally posted by MystryPhobia [*]

I'm sorry but IMO moonlessnite had an agenda which was obvious from her very first post. She came here to defame Christine's character and be hostile to anyone that didn't see things her way.

That being said... this the first that I have heard that you were also talking to Christine and am grateful for you observations of your communications with her.

I do think that whether Christine believes that Nic left on his own or if she does indeed think that he is dead somewhere.. that anger is a very normal emotion to have. We all grieve differently and there are many steps to grief that many psychologists have said is the healthy way to grieve... anger is one of them.

As my counselor has always told me. ANGER=PAIN.. if you are not hurt then there is no reason to be angry. When I am hurt.. I automatically just become angry also.. that is easier for me to deal with then the pain and is my way of coping. I don't know that this is true for Christine but it very well could be.

If Nic was murdered then it would be perfectly normal for her to feel anger towards him leaving her.. leaving her raise the children alone... leaving her to have another child without him. Not that he would deserve it or COULD have helped it... but still a normal emotion. If Nic left on his own.. even more so.

As for the making everything about her.. well.. I think that many think that she is a bit narcissistic in her thinking. I think that in her blog that she even said the same when she said that her personality traits shouldn't matter... what should matter is that he is missing. (my paraphrasing) Many people are this way... she is not alone in that at all. I think to some degree we are all like this.. some of us just have a better filter on what comes out of our mouths and when then others of us do. [/*]

I agree that it is normal for a spouse to feel angry when the other spouse is murdered (with the situation, perp..etc). I respectfully disagree that it is "normal" for the spouse to feel angry at her/his spouse when they are a victim of foul play (especially murder).

There are instances when after the facts of the murder are known, that the spouse may feel that his/her spouse did something that contributed to the murder risk (either accidentally or foolishly), thus causing the surviving spouse to be angry with the deceased spouse. However that does not apply here.

IF Christine does not know what happened to Nicholas as she claims, please explain to me how she (or any spouse that does not know how the other spouse died) could be ANGRY at that spouse ???. This in no way makes sense to me and I would really like to know how you came to this conclusion because I have tried.......even googled.....and cannot figure out why you think this

In a way I am glad you brought this up because it relates to the fact that I find it very strange that Christine is angry with Nicholas even though (again in her words) she has NO CLUE what happened to him.

[Musterion]

Originally posted by beetlebrow [*]

But isn't thay exactly why we are here......to discuss the case? We don't know why he disappeared so her behavior could give us some clues into his life before he left. The spouses behavior has been discussed many times in other "missing' cases.

Some people believe (and I am one) that Christine's behavior/actions seem to point to underlying issues that may be having an effect on the SEARCH for Nicholas. Christine was very vocal in the begining of this case and now it seems that some things that she said may not have been entrirely true. It is natural because she is NF's spouse to wonder why. [/*]

Hi beetlebrow,

I think it's good to question my motives, or my post rather! And that is all that I am trying to do with inv's post. Questioning.

I think in any missing persons case the spouse should be scrutinized. I think it is important.

I should have phrased my post better. I should have asked 'based on your conversations with Christine do you now feel that she had something to do with Nicholas' disappearance and why.' Because answering that question might be important to Nicholas' case. Maybe there was something said that can shed more light on helping us find Nicholas.

Beetlebrow, while I don't share your suspicions of Christine, I respect that you have your own viewpoint.

Thank you for helping me clarify my thoughts!

[quote]Originally posted by Musterion [*]

Hi beetlebrow,

I think it's good to question my motives, or my post rather! And that is all that I am trying to do with inv's post. Questioning.

I think in any missing persons case the spouse should be scrutinized. I think it is important.

I should have phrased my post better. I should have asked 'based on your conversations with Christine do you now feel that she had something to do with Nicholas' disappearance and why.' Because answering that question might be important to Nicholas' case. Maybe there was something said that can shed more light on helping us find Nicholas.

Beetlebrow, while I don't share your suspicions of Christine, I respect that you have your own viewpoint.

Oh my.......I guess I thought your question reflected a belief that examination of CF's behavior would not be helpful in the search for Nicholas. You are right......my bad. Thank you for being so polite!.

[Musterion]

Originally posted by beetlebrow [*]

I agree that it is normal for a spouse to feel angry when the other spouse is murdered (with the situation, perp..etc). I respectfully disagree that it is "normal" for the spouse to feel angry at her/his spouse when they are a victim of foul play (especially murder).

There are instances when after the facts of the murder are known, that the spouse may feel that his/her spouse did something that contributed to the murder risk (either accidentally or foolishly), thus causing the surviving spouse to be angry with the deceased spouse. However that does not apply here.

IF Christine does not know what happened to Nicholas as she claims, please explain to me how she (or any spouse that does not know how the other spouse died) could be ANGRY at that spouse ???. This in no way makes sense to me and I would really like to know how you came to this conclusion because I have tried.......even googled.....and cannot figure out why you think this

In a way I am glad you brought this up because it relates to the fact that I find it very strange that Christine is angry with Nicholas even though (again in her words) she has NO CLUE what happened to him. [/*]

Beetlebrow,

Emotions and behaviours are so hard to read at times, aren't they?

Here is a short read that may (or may not! Ha!) be helpful.

http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_d...&id=8444&cn=58

"not everyone will experience all of these stages, or, if all are experienced, they won't necessarily occur in this particular order. "

and

"After people have passed through denial and accepted that the loss has occurred (or will shortly occur), they may begin to feel Anger at the loss and the unfairness of it. They may become angry at the person who has been lost (or is dying). Feelings of abandonment may also occur. "

I think, along with our age and maturity and personality, the emotions can be embellished or we can get stuck in one stage. JMO.

[Musterion]

Originally posted by beetlebrow
[*]
Oh my.......I guess I thought your question reflected a belief that examination of CF's behavior would not be helpful in the search for Nicholas. You are right......my bad. Thank you for being so polite!.

[/*]

You're welcome.

LOL! Things can be so misread, sometimes, when we aren't face to face!

I don't usually have an issue with investigating anyone. But, my heart hurts, sometimes, with how the questions are asked or the comments are made!!!