Tuesday-04-01-08

henry · #1 04-01-2008, 06:51 AM

copied over nelkirk's great artwork on day 82:

Originally posted by nelkirk[*]CELEBRATE...

APRIL FOOLS DAY

Maybe today the truth will be told! [/*]

edit: crap - the colors and smiles didn't show . . . i'll go over to last nite's thread & get nelkirk & bkwits (who hasn't gone to bed yet . . . so watch what bkwits posts

)

henry · #2 04-01-2008, 07:12 AM

got this pm reply to attorney's ethics . . . here's my comment for context & then the pm i got:

my post/reply: thanks for that bit of information (wasn't around when you posted it earlier) . . . imo there should be ethics/code of conduct laws/rules for lawyers where if they are in communication with a wanted fugitive, that they have the moral and legal obligation to turn that info to le.

pm message: It is their ethics/code of conduct. They are there for the accused. Their duty is to their client, period. Now if he is say a known serial killer or someone very likely to harm someone, then it behooves the atty. to contact LE. But the threat has to be imminent. IMO

i think the question still remains - how does the attorney know of any imminent threat? iirc, the fbi has a warning on their wanted poster . . . there's got to be a better way!

henry · #3 04-01-2008, 07:21 AM

we have a great poster, who wishes to remain behind the scenes, who put together a 3D drawing from what some of us believe the garage, laundry room and back yard looks like . . . and would appreciate you taking a look at it . . . when nuttintodo uploads it to the photobucket today.

there's one area of concern/question with this 3D drawing . . . the following picture of the carseat and the stud/pegboard wall has us stumped . . . in the drawing that will be uploaded today it is pictured as a "pony" wall = 1/2 wall (brown in the drawing). of course, as we get further information, this drawing will be updated. this is also the picture that's been sent to lkay at jdnews to see if they can figure it out.

http://a.abclocal.go.com/images/wtvd...cs_carrage.jpg

bkwits · #4 04-01-2008, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by henry [*]got this pm reply to attorney's ethics . . . here's my comment for context & then the pm i got:

my post/reply: thanks for that bit of information (wasn't around when you posted it earlier) . . . imo there should be ethics/code of conduct laws/rules for lawyers where if they are in communication with a wanted fugitive, that they have the moral and legal obligation to turn that info to le.

pm message: It is their ethics/code of conduct. They are there for the accused. Their duty is to their client, period. Now if he is say a known serial killer or someone very likely to harm someone, then it behooves the atty. to contact LE. But the threat has to be imminent. IMO

i think the question still remains - how does the attorney know of any imminent threat? iirc, the fbi has a warning on their wanted poster . . . there's got to be a better way! [/*]

'

Maybe his client has threatened to harm someone. For example, what if Cesar had told an atty representing him for on the rape charges that he would kill Maria if she didn't withdraw her accusation. I think that would qualify as imminent. Or that guy who killed Versace. It was obvious he would kill anyone who got in his way. I forgot how many he killed. Something like that.

Even if the client confesses to the atty that he brutally murdered someone, the atty cannot divulge that, ever. IMO

BTW, I just found out that there is a Supreme Ct. ruling that atty/client privilege does not end with the client's death. MW5 and I were discussing that.

henry · #5 04-01-2008, 07:29 AM

bkwits - i think i got it - so the only way cesar's attorney could divulge his whereabouts is if cesar, since 1-11-08, has told his lawyer he committed a crime (after 1-11) or is going to commit a crime . . . right?

edit: coffee's ready for everyone!

henry · #6 04-01-2008, 07:37 AM

there's so much good stuff from yesterday & taking the liberty of bringing over nelkirk's post from last nite . . . imo what nelkirk posted . . . that conversation would have taken days in our home!!!!! here's the copy/paste of the post: (unfortunately the red highlighting did not copy over):

IMO it is interesting that CSL has said that "my husband told me..." and then she has a list of things that allegedly CL told her.

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2008/images/...scourts.gov.pdf

[QUOTE}On the morning of January 10, 2008, she and her husband rode to the office of Jacksonville Attorney Mark Raynor. While enroute, her husband asked her "If she was with him in this?" She told him, ""I do not know. Is there anything that you have not told me?"[/quote]

Enroute to where? To the attorney's office or enroute to their home? If they were on their way to his attorney's office, how would she know #(9.) He obtained legal counsel and explained the facts to them. and #(10) He was told that he was facing the death penalty.

Remember that she is supposed to be going TOWARD the attorney's office.

Then allegedly CL unburdens himself to her while in the vehicle.

quote:k. Cesar Laurean told her that

(1.) On December 15, 2007, Maria Lauterback visited their residence at 103 Meadow Trail, Jacksonville, North Carolina.

(2.) Maria Lauterbach told him she had a plan and was leaving the area.

(3.) Maria Lauterbach demanded money from him.

(4.) He then went to the bus station and helped Maria to purchase a ticket.

(5.) Later in the evening, Maria went back to their residence, told him that her plan had failed, that an argument ensued.

(6.) Maria was disoriented, agitated and acting differently.

(7). Maria produced a knife and killed herself by slitting her throat.

(8.) He became scared, took her body to a wooded area adjacent to his residence and buried her.

(9.) He obtained legal counsel and explained the facts to them.

(10.) He was told that he was facing the death penalty.

So when did this alleged conversation take place?

The very fact that she says that CL told her that he had buried the body in a wooded area adjacent to his residence is obviously not correct.

I wonder why CL would lie to his own defense attorney by saying that he had just buried the body? And why if he had just buried the body would his defense attorney tell him that he was facing the death penalty.

Because if CSL was present in the inner office and privy to the privileged conversation between CL and his attorney, then either CL lied to his attorney or CSL was not in the room when he confessed to a crime where he would be facing the death penalty.

Or then again LE's "cooperating witness" is withholding information from LE...

IMO CSL was parked in the waiting room while CL talked to his attorney and on the way home he unburdened himself to her.

Either he told her on the way there in which case she is moonlighting at the psychic friends network or he told her after he had been in the office.

Whichever way, for whatever reason she has given a false statement to authorities.

(end quote/copy/paste)

SavannahStar · #7 04-01-2008, 07:37 AM

CELEBRATE...

APRIL FOOLS DAY

Maybe today the truth will be told!

Courtesy of Nelkirk.

SavannahStar · #8 04-01-2008, 07:39 AM

Nelkirk, your theory works only IF the question "are you with me on this" refers to burying the body and possibly facing the DP. Why is this an assumption, I always wondered that.

I always took "are you with me on this" to be a VERY "general" comment.......taking in the whole of the rape allegations, etc., and yeh, "stand by your man" type of thing.

And....(from the other thread) bkwits wanted to know what is CSL'S "false statement."

henry · #9 04-01-2008, 07:39 AM

crap

how did you do that

SavannahStar · #10 04-01-2008, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by henry [*]crap

how did you do that

[/*]

I didn't copy from the post itself. I quoted the post, then copied THAT, taking out the quote marks, but leaving in the codes for color and size.

henry · #11 04-01-2008, 07:48 AM

thanks! never would have thought of that.

caejde · #12 04-01-2008, 08:50 AM

Maybe he had met with the attorney on one of the days that Christina wasn't with him. He explained "his story". And then on the way back to the attorney the next day, he was telling Christina what the attorney had told him the day before. Because the way it's worded, it said they were on the way to the attorney's office and en route...so that makes me think they were on the way to the attorney's office. The "are you with me" can be taken a couple ways. It could be, "I'm sorry, I made a mistake, please stand by me because I'm innocent". Or it could be "alright, let's get our stories straight...this is what I'm going to say....are you with me? And then Christina you are going to say 'I dont' know...."

As to why the attorney told him he'd get the death penalty...he either told the attorney the whole the truth. Or the attorney didn't buy his story about the suicide and told him if cops didn't believe him, he could face the death penalty.

henry · #13 04-01-2008, 09:14 AM

ita caejde . . . but the thing that gets me is that it was apparently a conversation in the car . . . can you imagine having a discussion like that while driving

SavannahStar · #14 04-01-2008, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by caejde [*]Maybe he had met with the attorney on one of the days that Christina wasn't with him. He explained "his story". And then on the way back to the attorney the next day, he was telling Christina what the attorney had told him the day before. Because the way it's worded, it said they were on the way to the attorney's office and en route...so that makes me think they were on the way to the attorney's office. The "are you with me" can be taken a couple ways. It could be, "I'm sorry, I made a mistake, please stand by me because I'm innocent". Or it could be "alright, let's get our stories straight...this is what I'm going to say....are you with me? And then Christina you are going to say 'I dont' know...."

As to why the attorney told him he'd get the death penalty...he either told the attorney the whole the truth. Or the attorney didn't buy his story about the suicide and told him if cops didn't believe him, he could face the death penalty. [/*]

If we take the more sinister explanation..."alright, let's get our stories straight...this is what I'm going to say.....are you with me?".....WHY would CSL recount this conversation to LE at all?

gaelicpeas · #15 04-01-2008, 09:40 AM

I agree with Caejde as CL had requested 2 or 3 days off that week to consult with attorneys. The "enroute" conversation with CSL supposedly took place the morning of Jan 10. He may have been recounting what happened in his earlier meetings with an attorney from Tues or Wed.

JMO and happy April Fool's day!

caejde · #16 04-01-2008, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SavannahStar [*]

If we take the more sinister explanation..."alright, let's get our stories straight...this is what I'm going to say.....are you with me?".....WHY would CSL recount this conversation to LE at all?

[/*]

Well Christina would leave the out "Cesar said this is what we're going to say..." Maybe I'm not explaining it clear enough. I guess this is what I'm imagining:

Cesar: Ok, Christina, when we're explaining all of this to the police, you'll say that I asked you if you were with me. And to completely erase you out of any wrong doing, you then will tell them you said to me "I don't know...is there something you're not telling me."

So, then it goes that Christina tells the detective they were on the way to the attorney's office and Cesar asks her "if she's with him on this" and she tells the detective she told him "I don't know...is there something you're not telling me"

gaelicpeas · #17 04-01-2008, 09:42 AM

Nelkirk commented last night about Wanda's sighting of the uniform on Friday morning and that it could have been CSL's MSGT or whatever he/she is called. To me, that would only work if this MSGT was driving the same kind of truck as CL...

(but a good idea, nonetheless!)

JMO

gaelicpeas · #18 04-01-2008, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by henry [*]we have a great poster, who wishes to remain behind the scenes, who put together a 3D drawing from what some of us believe the garage, laundry room and back yard looks like . . . and would appreciate you taking a look at it . . . when nuttintodo uploads it to the photobucket today.

there's one area of concern/question with this 3D drawing . . . the following picture of the carseat and the stud/pegboard wall has us stumped . . . in the drawing that will be uploaded today it is pictured as a "pony" wall = 1/2 wall (brown in the drawing). of course, as we get further information, this drawing will be updated. this is also the picture that's been sent to lkay at jdnews to see if they can figure it out.

http://a.abclocal.go.com/images/wtvd...cs_carrage.jpg [/*]

LOL! Well, now this picture has made me revise my "theory" of what the garage looks like. I thought the rear door would have been in this pic, but it is not - so now I am thinking the rear door is out of the laundry room!

JMO

caejde · #19 04-01-2008, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by henry [*]ita caejde . . . but the thing that gets me is that it was apparently a conversation in the car . . . can you imagine having a discussion like that while driving

[/*]

No I can't henry. My husband and I have plenty of conversations. And if ever said anything like that to me, I'm pulling the car over and ask him he better start talking. If this were my husband, I believe that right then I would be like "Jason, you have to go to the cops. Why in the he** didn't you tell me sooner? What in the he** were you thinking?" And I know I would be in shock if he confessed to doing something like Cesar did. I would be scared, angry, confused. But I do believe that I could call the police. But it's always hard to say what we would/would not do when we're not in the situation.

CANDYKISSES · #20 04-01-2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SavannahStar [*]

If we take the more sinister explanation..."alright, let's get our stories straight...this is what I'm going to say.....are you with me?".....WHY would CSL recount this conversation to LE at all?

[/*]

Quite possibly if she was feeling pressure while being interviewed. I am from the school of thought that even when lying, people need REFERENCE POINTS of the TRUTH to try and keep their stories cohesive.

Just like thinking there is some sprinkling of the truth about when Maria came back to the house. IF she had gone into labor, she might just have been out of control. It might explain the lack of pants and panties being mentioned in the autopsy if her water broke IMO.

I wonder if anyone thought to test the seat of her car from possible dried amniotic fluid?

Time will tell, but my neighbor had her baby last night. This is the young girl who is bipolar and came off the meds when she found out she was pregnant, thus under behavior therapy during the pregnancy. I was absolutely floored as just Friday she had another sonogram and they said the baby was progressing and the due date was April 27th. The doctor told her the baby was already six pounds and would probably be about eight or nine pounds at the time of delivery. He weighed five pounds, three ounces. It was an unplanned pregnancy and she has had two sonograms. She was adamant the due date was April 4th according to her calculations. They continued to tell her she was wrong. The hospital she delivered at has a shock trauma center, so I would expect their ultrasound equipment to be up to date and in good maintenance.

IT has made me think all night about Maria and her date vs the date the USMC gave. IF she was right, then I think she was feeling the symptoms on May 10th and the FEAR of what would happen when she called Mary upset. There was something unsettling about how Uncle Peter brought that up in the video the other day as he spoke about the pregnancy before the rape. While I realize he could have been simply out of synch speaking, it rang a little true for me, but that's probably because it fits what I'm thinking too.

ALL JMO and yes I realize I went all over the map in that one post. Too much thinking and not a good breakfast yet.

henry · #21 04-01-2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gaelicpeas [*]

LOL! Well, now this picture has made me revise my "theory" of what the garage looks like. I thought the rear door would have been in this pic, but it is not - so now I am thinking the rear door is out of the laundry room!

JMO [/*]

hah! don't go revising until you see the picture!!!! a pony wall might work and keep the door in the same location from gvs video and nuttintodo's picture from the outside into the garage (remember the one with the arrows?) . . . let's all go & wake nuttintodo up

- hah! only time i'll use this icon cause i don't like it!

SavannahStar · #22 04-01-2008, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AnnieBean [*]

good post henry. I have often wondered why, after that conversation, she didn't run run run and not look back. she could have used the receptionists office to call 911 while she waited, if necessary. {{{If a guy confessed to lawyers he had a body in his yard buried, etc and his wife was sitting right next to him in the lawyers office as he was confessing, do you think the lawyers would even wonder if the wife was in danger, should their client
even be trusted to turn himself in and be allowed to leave with the wife?}}}Did they worry XTina might be in danger? Did they meet XT and talk to her at all, or was she out in the waiting room the whole time? And why go to the atty appt with him and not sit in on the meeting? That makes no sense. Its not like he was getting a prostate exam, FGS, this affected her life too!!! she should have been in there, if she wasn't.
Or did he make her go with him because he didn't want to leave her alone to mess up his plan to get away...i dunno. [/*]

But Annie, see you TOO are basing your thoughts on the ASSUMPTION that the conversation that took place was as a result of him telling her Maria commit suicide and he buried the body.

I am NOT convinced of that at all. That is why I said above, posters are making that assumption, and I cannot see why.

gaelicpeas · #23 04-01-2008, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by henry [*]

hah! don't go revising until you see the picture!!!! a pony wall might work and keep the door in the same location from gvs video and nuttintodo's picture from the outside into the garage (remember the one with the arrows?) . . . let's all go & wake nuttintodo up

- hah! only time i'll use this icon cause i don't like it! [/*]

I am not sure what a pony wall is. It definitely looks like a pegboard to me where you hang tools, etc. So are you saying the door to the backyard from the garage is on the other side of this "pony wall"?

henry · #24 04-01-2008, 09:58 AM

*******************************************
good post henry. I have often wondered why, after that conversation, she didn't run run run and not look back. she could have used the receptionists office to call 911 while she waited, if necessary. {{{If a guy confessed to lawyers he had a body in his yard buried, etc and his wife was sitting right next to him in the lawyers office as he was confessing, do you think the lawyers would even wonder if the wife was in danger, should their client
even be trusted to turn himself in and be allowed to leave with the wife?}}}Did they worry XTina might be in danger? Did they meet XT and talk to her at all, or was she out in the waiting room the whole time? And why go to the atty appt with him and not sit in on the meeting? That makes no sense. Its not like he was getting a prostate exam, FGS, this affected her life too!!! she should have been in there, if she wasn't.
Or did he make her go with him because he didn't want to leave her alone to mess up his plan to get away...i dunno. [/*][/quote]
******************************

why thank you ms. anniebean - trying to get on my good side for calling me your mom

. . . and, if she was working, xtina would also have to get the time off from work . . . wonder if the records show that?

henry · #25 04-01-2008, 10:04 AM

nope - don't know - maybe someone else does - got a full plate today - apple pie's cooking & have to go & visit the library.

henry · #26 04-01-2008, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gaelicpeas [*]

I am not sure what a pony wall is. It definitely looks like a pegboard to me where you hang tools, etc. So are you saying the door to the backyard from the garage is on the other side of this "pony wall"? [/*]

yup . . . pony wall = 1/2 wall - kinda like a short divider

marinewife5 · #27 04-01-2008, 10:11 AM

Item j on the search warrant claims that the conversation took place "enroute" to atty. mark raynor's office. http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/12...onset09web.pdf

GentleBreeze · #28 04-01-2008, 10:26 AM

I have always thought CSL statement just seems *** backward.

QUOTE}On the morning of January 10, 2008, she and her husband rode to the office of Jacksonville Attorney Mark Raynor. While enroute, her husband asked her "If she was with him in this?" She told him, ""I do not know. Is there anything that you have not told me?"[/quote]

I think by this time things were pretty intense and serious. I think they both knew it was the beginning of the end. I doubt he had ever taken time off from duty to see an attorney and had asked for three days to do it. I even wonder if he had even seen an attorney during the rape allegation period....that still remains murky to me.

IMO when someone asks another "if they are with them in "THIS" then "THIS" and the plan concerning "THIS" has been thoroughly discussed beforehand and his supposed comment would be more to seal the deal on the plan that had already been discussed.

imoo

marinewife5 · #29 04-01-2008, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GentleBreeze [*]I have always thought CSL statement just seems *** backward.

QUOTE}On the morning of January 10, 2008, she and her husband rode to the office of Jacksonville Attorney Mark Raynor. While enroute, her husband asked her "If she was with him in this?" She told him, ""I do not know. Is there anything that you have not told me?"

I think by this time things were pretty tense and serious. I think they both knew it was the beginning of the end. I doubt he had ever taken time off from duty to see an attorney and had asked for three days to do it. I even wonder if he had even seen an attorney during the rape allegation period....that still remains murky to me.

IMO when someone asks another "if they are with them in "THIS" then "THIS" and the plan concerning "THIS" has been thoroughly discussed beforehand and his supposed comment would be more to seal the deal on the plan that had already been discussed.

imoo [/*][/quote]
I think that the whole "are you with my on this" exchange sounds a bit too lifetime movie to me. a more realistic response from someone who knows nothing of the true events would sound more like "of course i am honey, we've made it this far together" jmo

caejde · #30 04-01-2008, 10:30 AM

Just read something on the search warrant that mw posted about the detective speaking to Cesar and Christina at their home. When did this happen????

This is what it says verbatim:

"Based on my training and experience, probable cause exists to believe that evidence of the crime of murder occurred at 103 Meadow Trail, Jacksonville, NC. I spoke to both Cesar and Christina at 103 Meadow Trail and know that the residence at that location is their property."

Edited to fix typos.

caejde · #31 04-01-2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by marinewife5 [*]

I think by this time things were pretty tense and serious. I think they both knew it was the beginning of the end. I doubt he had ever taken time off from duty to see an attorney and had asked for three days to do it. I even wonder if he had even seen an attorney during the rape allegation period....that still remains murky to me.

IMO when someone asks another "if they are with them in "THIS" then "THIS" and the plan concerning "THIS" has been thoroughly discussed beforehand and his supposed comment would be more to seal the deal on the plan that had already been discussed.

imoo [/*]

I think that the whole "are you with my on this" exchange sounds a bit too lifetime movie to me. a more realistic response from someone who knows nothing of the true events would sound more like "of course i am honey, we've made it this far together" jmo [/*][/quote]
****

Right...and the "this" makes me think Cesar isn't talking about the rape. She had shown that she was with him while facing the rape allegations.

Edited to separate the posts...it didn't quote right.

marinewife5 · #32 04-01-2008, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by caejde [*]Just read something on the search warrant that mw posted about the detective speaking to Cesar and Christina at their home. When did this happen????

This is what it says verbatim:

"Based on my training and experience, probably cause exists to believe that evidence of the crime of murder occurred at 103 Meadow Trail, Jacksonville, NC. I spoke to both Cesar and Christina at 103 Meadow Trail and know that the residence at that location is their property." [/*]

that date would be extremely relevant, imo.

GentleBreeze · #33 04-01-2008, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by caejde [*]
I think that the whole "are you with my on this" exchange sounds a bit too lifetime movie to me. a more realistic response from someone who knows nothing of the true events would sound more like "of course i am honey, we've made it this far together" jmo [/*]

Right...and the "this" makes me think Cesar isn't talking about the rape. She had shown that she was with him while facing the rape allegations. [/*][/quote]

Exactly. She knew exactly what "THIS" meant imo.

SavannahStar · #34 04-01-2008, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by caejde [*]Just read something on the search warrant that mw posted about the detective speaking to Cesar and Christina at their home. When did this happen????

This is what it says verbatim:

"Based on my training and experience, probably cause exists to believe that evidence of the crime of murder occurred at 103 Meadow Trail, Jacksonville, NC. I spoke to both Cesar and Christina at 103 Meadow Trail and know that the residence at that location is their property." [/*]

I remember that, caejde.

marinewife5 · #35 04-01-2008, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GentleBreeze [*]

Right...and the "this" makes me think Cesar isn't talking about the rape. She had shown that she was with him while facing the rape allegations. [/*]

Exactly. She knew exactly what "THIS" meant imo. [/*][/quote]

WHEN cl is captured (i'm having faith today) it will be interesting to see what his account is. i'm not saying he would be honest, but it should match csl's to some degree if she told the truth. jmo

GentleBreeze · #36 04-01-2008, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by marinewife5 [*]

that date would be extremely relevant, imo. [/*]

I would think it was somewhere around the 10th because he was gone by the 11th wasn't he?

imoo

SavannahStar · #37 04-01-2008, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by marinewife5 [*]

IMO when someone asks another "if they are with them in "THIS" then "THIS" and the plan concerning "THIS" has been thoroughly discussed beforehand and his supposed comment would be more to seal the deal on the plan that had already been discussed.
[/*]

I disagree. I think of "this" as being an entire situation, and not indicative at all of any concrete plans/deception.

marinewife5 · #38 04-01-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GentleBreeze [*]

I would think it was somewhere around the 9th because he was gone by the 10th wasn't he?

imoo [/*]

11th, per csl in the affidavit. (when he left)

Kel65 · #39 04-01-2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GentleBreeze [*]

I would think it was somewhere around the 10th because he was gone by the 11th wasn't he?

imoo [/*]

Yep, I believe that is when things regarding the escape to Mexico went changed from contingency planning into execution mode. JMO

caejde · #40 04-01-2008, 10:41 AM

So, when did the detective talked to both Cesar and Christina at the same time...and if he was at their house, I wonder if he noticed anything out of the ordinary.