John List died in jail

[clannad]

NJ man who killed his family and hid for 17 years dies in custody.

http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art.../NEWS/80324043

Thank you. I have always been interested in this case because he grew up in my hometown. Pneumonia. Hmmmm...wonder if he suffered like he made his son suffer.

Here's a link, in case anyone's interested in the whole story.


http://www.crimelibrary.com/notoriou...ly/list/1.html

[BobbysGirl]

WOW I remember the name and can see his face but forgot the case. Now I know who he is. Many crime shows about him.

BG

[clannad]

Thanks for the link, wandering. I remember reading about the murders in 71 and I also remember when he was caught right after being profiled on AMW. I remember the house being creepy looking and he had left music playing in the background after he took off. The hair on my neck still stands up thinking about it.

Originally posted by clannad [*]Thanks for the link, wandering. I remember reading about the murders in 71 and I also remember when he was caught right after being profiled on AMW. I remember the house being creepy looking and he had left music playing in the background after he took off. The hair on my neck still stands up thinking about it. [/*]

YW, and TY, too. Yes, and did you see that he filed an appeal based on PTSD? What nerve!

Fairly interesting childhood. When a kid, he had to disappear from the home during the day because his mother rented the top floor to a married couple, and his mother must have thought that couple needed peace and quiet. He used to go sit in the library and other places. All day. He slept on the couch, and had to make his bedding "disappear" after he woke up so the couple wouldn't know he was there.

When married and he lost his job, he went to the train station every day, and read the paper, etc., so his family would think he was working still.

Totally weird, don't think PTSD had anything to do with the murders. His mother kept him in suits, and wouldn't let him play with the other kids, he might get dirty. His neighbors in adulthood said he even cut the grass in a suit and tie.

Wonder where he'll be buried...His mother is buried in Frankenmuth, MI, her childhood home.

It's my opinon that he was a very weird duck, maybe because of his childhood.

I'm writing an article about him, for our local historical site. This death will be the final paragraph.

Thanks so much.

[BobbysGirl]

Yes, I remember how creepy the house was when I saw it on TV/ He lined the bodies up in a huge room (?). Kept the heat off. IIRC wasn't there a ceiling, fresco or chandaliers that were worth a million or more dollars? He was a frugal man and simple life style if IRC.

So creepy

BG

Originally posted by BobbysGirl [*]Yes, I remember how creepy the house was when I saw it on TV/ He lined the bodies up in a huge room (?). Kept the heat off. IIRC wasn't there a ceiling, fresco or chandaliers that were worth a million or more dollars? He was a frugal man and simple life style if IRC.

So creepy

BG [/*]

Yes, there was a Tiffany glass ceiling in that room, signed by Tiffany! Almost priceless. Wonder what he said when they told him that? I haven't been able to find anything about who told him he would have been rich!

Originally posted by BobbysGirl [*]Yes, I remember how creepy the house was when I saw it on TV/ He lined the bodies up in a huge room (?). Kept the heat off. IIRC wasn't there a ceiling, fresco or chandaliers that were worth a million or more dollars? He was a frugal man and simple life style if IRC.

So creepy

BG [/*]

I would hardly consider an accountant who supported his elderly mother, and had a wife disabled by tertiary syphilis, who purchased a 19-room mansion to be living a frugal lifestyle.

I had no idea he was still alive.

Originally posted by sardoodledom [*]

I would hardly consider an accountant who supported his elderly mother, and had a wife disabled by tertiary syphilis, who purchased a 19-room mansion to be living a frugal lifestyle.

I had no idea he was still alive. [/*]

He didn't support his mother, she had money from her dead husband, John's father, so he got I think, $10,000.00 from her, to buy the house. That was with the suggestion that she move from MI to the new house. She did, and had her own apartment upstairs.

In the link it says she had $200,000.00, and John had been stealing it (he was in charge of her finances), so he had to kill her before she found out they were all going down the drain.

We have a historic library here, and John worked there in high school. He told people there that he hoped one day to have a house like that. The library is fabulous, donated by a lumber baron.

That's why he bought the grand house.

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by wandering [*]Here's a link, in case anyone's interested in the whole story.


http://www.crimelibrary.com/notoriou...ly/list/1.html [/*]

Thanks I'll read that later. So the POS murderer got to live all these years in prison. If this didn't call for the death penalty then what does?

Originally posted by CAT TOY [*]I remember his case very well; I'll never forget it. He left them behind like chit on your shoe. It's true, he really did. And then went on to be an acct somewhere else, and was right back in the same situation, low paying job a mortgage, a wife.....she was lucky that JW aired his case.....she could have been next.
CT [/*]

Yep, but if you notice, he quit wearing suits, and spiffing up. It was as though since his mother was dead, he finally got to relax.

[aubrey04]

Originally posted by clannad [*]NJ man who killed his family and hid for 17 years dies in custody.

http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art.../NEWS/80324043 [/*]

Bizarre. I am with the other posters, I had no clue he was still alive. He lived to be 82 years old and his youngest child only got to experience life until he was 13 -- when List snuffed out his life.

Life is so unfair sometimes. I can't say that I am upset about his death because I certainly am NOT.

I remember this case too, I watched a crime show and he recounted the murders, he was so calm as he talked about killing his family.

I did not know about his childhood, mowing the grass in a suit??? That is sad too.

[clannad]

YW wandering! Yes, I noticed his PTSD appeal. What nerve is right!

2 more links with info on the crime. One from AMW, and the other from the Star Ledger newspaper. The link from the Star Ledger
has a picture of the house, which doesn't look too creepy in daylight. I still can't look at it without my hair standing up though.

http://www.amw.com/features/feature_...il.cfm?id=2613


http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/200..._list_dea.html

Here's another link.

http://www.jesus21.com/poppydixon/crime/list.html

Originally posted by clannad [*]YW wandering! Yes, I noticed his PTSD appeal. What nerve is right!

2 more links with info on the crime. One from AMW, and the other from the Star Ledger newspaper. The link from the Star Ledger
has a picture of the house, which doesn't look too creepy in daylight. I still can't look at it without my hair standing up though.

http://www.amw.com/features/feature_...il.cfm?id=2613


http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/200..._list_dea.html [/*]

TY. Better it burned, it must have been a terrible sight/smell inside.

[Amy S.]

Thanks for this news. Hadn't he called the kid's school and said they were taking a vacation for awhile?

[Roux]

One of my most vivid memories of the List case was the age-progressed model done by the forensic artist (can't remember his name, Frank ???, but he's very well known) for AMW. It looked EXACTLY like List when he was arrested. In fact, wasn't it a neighbor who saw the show and recognized him?

[clannad]

Amy- YW. I've read that he had informed "people" that the family was either on, or going on vacation. IMO, He really planned his getaway to give him plenty of time to disappear, notifying the school would have been right there at the top of his list I would imagine.

Roux- Yup a neighbor did call AMW. She had been his neighbor when he lived in Colorado.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...pagewanted=all

Have y'all read Righteous Carnage? It's very good!

Originally posted by monica [*]Have y'all read Righteous Carnage? It's very good! [/*]

Yes, I did, and it's the best book about the case. It even has the address of his childhood home, and I went by there to look at it. It's still in great shape.

Originally posted by packy [*]After reading about him, I seem to remember he never quite made it to where he wanted to be in life. He was a very detailed but also very intense person I believe because of the impression I got, and somehow always seems to fail.

If I remember right there was something about he had been very active in the church or community back in his home town or some place he and his mom had lived for awhile, and yet when someone went back to interview people who would have known him it seemed they hardly remembered him. [/*]

He wasn't "active" in the community. People hardly remember him because he had no personality, and because no one wants to admit they knew him. It's not a discussed subject round here. Pretend he's not one of us type of thing.

[Cat Lady]

Robert Blake played List in a TV movie. His performance was very eerie!

Originally posted by Cat Lady [*]Robert Blake played List in a TV movie. His performance was very eerie! [/*]

yep. The title is "Judgment Day," the John List Story.

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by wandering [*]He wasn't "active" in the community. People hardly remember him because he had no personality, and because no one wants to admit they knew him. It's not a discussed subject round here. Pretend he's not one of us type of thing. [/*]

Yeah, kind of like how Cincinnati natives feel about the fact that Charles Manson was born there! Not exactly something you would ever put in a brochure for tourism!

Such a sad and heartbreaking chapter of life. I remember reading about the priceless Tiffany glasswork that was discovered in the List house after the murders. If he had only known about it, it might have made the literal difference between life and death for his family. Or maybe not...seems to me that List was "off" by more than a button or two...JMO though.

Originally posted by annalyzer [*]

Thanks I'll read that later. So the POS murderer got to live all these years in prison. If this didn't call for the death penalty then what does? [/*]

There was no death penalty when this happen I think

[Adalena935]

He had 82 years and condemned his children so few. He hid out and changed his identity to afford himself all those years that he never deserved.

He was obsessive compulsive. Probably part of his personality was his weirdo relationship with his Mother and part genetic. That's my guess.

He was a cruel and evil man. Don't let his quiet demeanor fool you. May god have mercy on his soul.

[Adalena935]

Originally posted by Cat Lady [*]Robert Blake played List in a TV movie. His performance was very eerie! [/*]

Robert Blake is such a fantastic actor. One of the best in my opinion. He could really make you believe he was the character he portrayed.

Originally posted by OverItAll [*]There's no mention of Helen's daughter from her previous marriage in those articles. Anyone know what happened to her? [/*]

I wasn't aware there was one. I thought Helen's first husband was killed in the Korean conflict and they had no children.

[Katt2]

Originally posted by sardoodledom [*]

I wasn't aware there was one. I thought Helen's first husband was killed in the Korean conflict and they had no children. [/*]

Helen had a 9 year old daughter named Brenda when she met John. I cannot find what happend to her other than at the age of 16 she became rebellious and wanted to leave home.

[clannad]

Originally posted by Katt2 [*]

Helen had a 9 year old daughter named Brenda when she met John. I cannot find what happend to her other than at the age of 16 she became rebellious and wanted to leave home. [/*]

WOW! Thanks for the info Katt2. I didn't know that Helen had a daughter from a previous marriage either.

[texski]

i read an old paperback on this case a fe
w years ago.
the author blamed the wife for wanting an upscale lifestyle and spending more money than he could earn. not a reason for murder, especially the children.
but she was supposed to be the one who insisted on the big house, etc. and he felt he had failed to give her what she wanted.

[islandgirl36542]

did this POS ever show any sort of remorse for what he did.

RIP.....Helen, daughter, Patricia, 16; his sons John, 15, and Frederick, 13, and his mother, Alma, 85.....

I'd like to know what happened to Helen's daughter as well and what about John's second wife?

List's daughter had told a teacher List was going to kill them all.


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...50C0A966958260

Here's some interesting comments, one from his brother, and descriptions of him from one of the extradition officers. A "strange man, with a superior attitude..."


http://www.thnt.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...803250327/1001

No one has claimed his body.


http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/200...d_forward.html

The bogeyman of Westfield. About the house, and when the family moved in. "We don't socialize," he told a neighbor...


http://blog.nj.com/njv_mark_diionno/...ield_a_gh.html

Excerpts from the book, "Righteous Carnage." Includes remarks from his last wife, "Mrs. Bob Clark," when they came to arrest List. Lots of pictures.


http://books.google.com/books?id=kri...l=en#PPA242,M1