Discuss the Maria Lauterbach case, Part 2

[crymeariver2006]

Okay, continue on....

[GentleBreeze]

I am bring sexxy post and mine over.


quote:
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Originally posted by sexxytazz [*]

The thing that keeps throwing me off that theory is Marys statement about the "heated discussion" she had with Maria about the adoption. I keep going back to Maria having a change of heart about giving the baby up, which in turn started the whole chain of events. [/*]
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I truly understand Sexxy.........this is a case with so many twists and turns.

But see this is how I feel about that. I think Maria was telling her family one thing while planning to do something else entirely. Something she knew they would not understand.

I think for quite awhile she had no intentions of giving Gabriel up. Being adopted herself, Maria may have felt the sadness at times from that and was never going to let Gabriel go through the same struggles.

imoo

[sexxytazz]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze [*]

I truly understand Sexxy.........this is a case with so many twists and turns.

But see this is how I feel about that. I think Maria was telling her family one thing while planning to do something else entirely. Something she knew they would not understand.

I think for quite awhile she had no intentions of giving Gabriel up. Being adopted herself, Maria may have felt the sadness at times from that and was never going to let Gabriel go through the same struggles.

imoo [/*]

Being adopted myself, I can understand what Maria may have been feeling.

I agree she may have been "going along" with the adoption suggestion to not rock the boat, while she was deciding what she needed to do. I firmly believe the adoption plan was more the families suggestion than Marias wish. Having a seperate casket for Gabriel pretty much confirmed to me the family felt he was not a treasured member of the family, but something to be dealt with. But that is just a personal feeling for me and others may not feel the same way.

But, I also feel the adoption plan was something she may have had with CL and went along with it until Dec. She finally gathered the courage to tell them all she was keeping the baby and, like was posted on the other thread, CL seen child support payments going out for the next 18+ years. And *IF* they had recieved any money for the adoption, for living expenses, that would have needed to have been paid back as well.

[crymeariver2006]

I'm bringing over my last post too. IMO, Anne's baby was very relevant to Maria's thought process.


quote:
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Originally posted by GentleBreeze [*]

I truly understand Sexxy.........this is a case with so many twists and turns.

But see this is how I feel about that. I think Maria was telling her family one thing while planning to do something else entirely. Something she knew they would not understand.

I think for quite awhile she had no intentions of giving Gabriel up. Being adopted herself, Maria may have felt the sadness at times from that and was never going to let Gabriel go through the same struggles.

imoo [/*]
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[*]Add to that Anne's (her younger sister) having a baby in March '07 when she was still in high school. IMO, Maria already knew what the reaction from the parents was going to be.[/*]

[crymeariver2006]

Geez, we can't even bold anymore on account of the second letter of the alphabet?

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006 [*]Geez, we can't even bold anymore on account of the second letter of the alphabet?

[/*]

Psst, just change the size...

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by nuttintodo [*]

Psst, just change the size... [/*]

[sexxytazz]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006 [*]I'm bringing over my last post too. IMO, Anne's baby was very relevant to Maria's thought process.


quote:
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Originally posted by GentleBreeze [*]

I truly understand Sexxy.........this is a case with so many twists and turns.

But see this is how I feel about that. I think Maria was telling her family one thing while planning to do something else entirely. Something she knew they would not understand.

I think for quite awhile she had no intentions of giving Gabriel up. Being adopted herself, Maria may have felt the sadness at times from that and was never going to let Gabriel go through the same struggles.

imoo [/*]
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[*]Add to that Anne's (her younger sister) having a baby in March '07 when she was still in high school. IMO, Maria already knew what the reaction from the parents was going to be.[/*] [/*]

That is a good point, and one I had not thought of. Do we know what the reaction was?

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by sexxytazz [*]

That is a good point, and one I had not thought of. Do we know what the reaction was? [/*]

Okay, looking at the myspace pics, it would appear the pics stopped after about one month of age. Then you have Annie with a motorcycle. I don't think she would be riding a bike with a new baby. The title of the myspace reads something like "I love him so".

Mrs. Renner thought Anne was going to keep the baby, but it was shortly after that the story about ex-bf and adoption surfaced in the conversations with Maria according to Mrs. Renner.

I would say judging by Maria's obit and no more pics on Anne's site, he is gone from their family. JMO tho. If he was still with the Lauterbach family, I truly believe he would have been listed as a surviving relative. AGAIN, JMO.

[sexxytazz]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES [*]

Okay, looking at the myspace pics, it would appear the pics stopped after about one month of age. Then you have Annie with a motorcycle. I don't think she would be riding a bike with a new baby. The title of the myspace reads something like "I love him so".

Mrs. Renner thought Anne was going to keep the baby, but it was shortly after that the story about ex-bf and adoption surfaced in the conversations with Maria according to Mrs. Renner.

I would say judging by Maria's obit and no more pics on Anne's site, he is gone from their family. JMO tho. If he was still with the Lauterbach family, I truly believe he would have been listed as a surviving relative. AGAIN, JMO. [/*]

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by old_lady [*]

NO we don't. If Annie gave her baby up it would have been her decision. It would have been for a better life for her child. I just don't see the family as a controlling bunch of people.

JMO [/*]

If you don't see anyone controlling anything here, then what was the meaning of the stern conversation with Maria about having to give her baby up?

JMO

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by old_lady [*]


I guess I don't see the conversation as "stern" and that Maria "had to give the baby up".

Suggestions and guidance is more what I see. How could the mother order her to give a baby up? Maria was an adult after all. There was no reason to have to follow her mother's suggestions. She was out on her own taking care of herself.

This is a family, not a cult.

JMO [/*]

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by old_lady [*]


I guess I don't see the conversation as "stern" and that Maria "had to give the baby up".

Suggestions and guidance is more what I see. How could the mother order her to give a baby up? Maria was an adult after all. There was no reason to have to follow her mother's suggestions. She was out on her own taking care of herself.

This is a family, not a cult.

JMO [/*]

IIRC Mary herself used that word.

I don't think cult activity is required for a mother to have a controlling hand in things myself.

I also don't see an adult having to call home several times a day even before the rape allegations when they are in the military. I think Maria was trying hard to please her mother and live a little at the same time and it all got to be too much for her when she found out she was pregnant.

I have speculated on why I believe the rape allegations came about and nothing new has come to light, so I will stand on Mary and Peter's early thoughts about Maria and possibly being bipolar as being probable and it could very well be at the root of the rape allegations.

None of us know and I think we're all caught up in theorizing and fitting the puzzle pieces in as we know them.


JMO tho.

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES [*]

IIRC Mary herself used that word.

I don't think cult activity is required for a mother to have a controlling hand in things myself.

I also don't see an adult having to call home several times a day even before the rape allegations when they are in the military. I think Maria was trying hard to please her mother and live a little at the same time and it all got to be too much for her when she found out she was pregnant.

I have speculated on why I believe the rape allegations came about and nothing new has come to light, so I will stand on Mary and Peter's early thoughts about Maria and possibly being bipolar as being probable and it could very well be at the root of the rape allegations.

None of us know and I think we're all caught up in theorizing and fitting the puzzle pieces in as we know them.

JMO tho. [/*]

I agree with you post CK.

I personally think Maria was not equipped emotionally, or mature enough to take on raising a child on her own, and her mother knew it.

I think Maria had hoped for a life with Cesar and keeping her child toward the end, but prior had agreed with her mother and uncle about adoption.

I have always thought, and have posted before that I think Mary and Uncle Peter were coming out not for a family visit, but rather to make sure the adoption paperwork was in order.

My Opinion/View

[daniel green]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze [*]I am bring sexxy post and mine over.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sexxytazz [*]

The thing that keeps throwing me off that theory is Marys statement about the "heated discussion" she had with Maria about the adoption. I keep going back to Maria having a change of heart about giving the baby up, which in turn started the whole chain of events. [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I truly understand Sexxy.........this is a case with so many twists and turns.

But see this is how I feel about that. I think Maria was telling her family one thing while planning to do something else entirely. Something she knew they would not understand.

I think for quite awhile she had no intentions of giving Gabriel up. Being adopted herself, Maria may have felt the sadness at times from that and was never going to let Gabriel go through the same struggles.

imoo [/*]

Or, it could have gone the opposite way.

We adopted our youngest daughter, who is 13 now, at birth. We were in the room when she was born and I got to know her birth mother very well. She had been adopted at birth and so the decision for her had been not between raising the child or making an adoption placement, but between an abortion and an adoption placement. And she knew, she says, instantly, that she would choose an adoption placement as well as choose the family. And she did.

So I don't think that ML being adopted herself is a negative thing as in "I would never do that to my child," but a positive thing, as in "I would want the same for my child."

That being said, I have no idea if ML had planned on an adoption placement, as there seems to be nothing available to us at this time, to make that kind of assumption.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by IvySterling [*]
I agree with you post CK.

I personally think Maria was not equipped emotionally, or mature enough to take on raising a child on her own, and her mother knew it.

snipped

My Opinion/View [/*]

ITA

Especially if, as her mother believed, the child was a product of rape.

But, certainly, given the fact that she had no partner, was not settled down, was so young, and had been troubled (as per her mother) all her life, she certainly was not equipped emotionally or in terms of maturity--or even financially--to raise a child.

That is all IMO too.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES [*]

Okay, looking at the myspace pics, it would appear the pics stopped after about one month of age. Then you have Annie with a motorcycle. I don't think she would be riding a bike with a new baby. The title of the myspace reads something like "I love him so".

Mrs. Renner thought Anne was going to keep the baby, but it was shortly after that the story about ex-bf and adoption surfaced in the conversations with Maria according to Mrs. Renner.

I would say judging by Maria's obit and no more pics on Anne's site, he is gone from their family. JMO tho. If he was still with the Lauterbach family, I truly believe he would have been listed as a surviving relative. AGAIN, JMO. [/*]

VERY interesting, CK. Very interesting.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by daniel green [*]

Or, it could have gone the opposite way.

We adopted our youngest daughter, who is 13 now, at birth. We were in the room when she was born and I got to know her birth mother very well. She had been adopted at birth and so the decision for her had been not between raising the child or making an adoption placement, but between an abortion and an adoption placement. And she knew, she says, instantly, that she would choose an adoption placement as well as choose the family. And she did.

So I don't think that ML being adopted herself is a negative thing as in "I would never do that to my child," but a positive thing, as in "I would want the same for my child."

That being said, I have no idea if ML had planned on an adoption placement, as there seems to be nothing available to us at this time, to make that kind of assumption. [/*]

I think every adoption is different and where one adopted child may feel totally secure another one may not and struggle with it. From what Mary said Maria had struggled for several years and was a loner somewhat. Maybe she felt she just did not fit in and felt it had a lot to do with her being adopted into the family.

So imo something was lacking in Maria's life. I do believe she loved Mary and her family but may have felt she had to only act according to what she knew they would accept.

Maria did not look through the eyes of Mary and I think giving Gabriel away for adoption just was unacceptable for her to do.

imoo

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by sexxytazz [*]

That is a good point, and one I had not thought of. Do we know what the reaction was? [/*]

No we don't. However when the family is described as "deeply religious" and "devout Catholic" and you have not one, but both unmarried daughters being pregnant within a year of each other, you can pretty much do the math.

IMO only.

ETA and the two caskets bothered me tremendously. I had forgotten about it until old lady brought it up. But IMMHO, that spoke volumes about what the "family's" intentions were toward this child.

Again, JMO.

[henry]

Originally posted by daniel green [*]

Or, it could have gone the opposite way.

We adopted our youngest daughter, who is 13 now, at birth. We were in the room when she was born and I got to know her birth mother very well. She had been adopted at birth and so the decision for her had been not between raising the child or making an adoption placement, but between an abortion and an adoption placement. And she knew, she says, instantly, that she would choose an adoption placement as well as choose the family. And she did.

So I don't think that ML being adopted herself is a negative thing as in "I would never do that to my child," but a positive thing, as in "I would want the same for my child."

That being said, I have no idea if ML had planned on an adoption placement, as there seems to be nothing available to us at this time, to make that kind of assumption. [/*]

clap hands . . . clap hands . . . and perhaps annie's baby is being raised and/or adopted by relatives . . . jmo

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by IvySterling [*]
I agree with you post CK.

I personally think Maria was not equipped emotionally, or mature enough to take on raising a child on her own, and her mother knew it.

I think Maria had hoped for a life with Cesar and keeping her child toward the end, but prior had agreed with her mother and uncle about adoption.

I have always thought, and have posted before that I think Mary and Uncle Peter were coming out not for a family visit, but rather to make sure the adoption paperwork was in order.

My Opinion/View [/*]

Yes you did Ivy, and I can remember telling you then that I hadn't thought about it much, but your theory seemed to be a strong possibility. I believe if Maria was calling her mother several times a day, there was some planning going on and just perhaps Mary and Peter were going to handle that part thus her impending visit.

Then if the date we have of February was a true due date and Maria had admitted to the USMC the baby would not be a product of rape on November 5th, well that would add tremendous stress for Maria and perhaps fuel the need to get away.

ALL JMOO.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by daniel green [*]

ITA

Especially if, as her mother believed, the child was a product of rape.

But, certainly, given the fact that she had no partner, was not settled down, was so young, and had been troubled (as per her mother) all her life, she certainly was not equipped emotionally or in terms of maturity--or even financially--to raise a child.

That is all IMO too. [/*]

I would have to agree with that Daniel, and from having experience dealing with children who are adopted within the family, I can tell you I have yet to see the harmonious fit we see when they are adopted from outside the family.

I used to follow the adoption thread in OC and it was very revealing about how adoptees felt and it seemed with the adoptees who came from within the family, it was a struggle.

It may be brought on by the adoptee themselves feeling they don't measure up or that they think they have to go the extra mile and fear being judged and compared to the other biological children IMO. I simply know those situations seemed to have turmoil and trauma.

I know you are a loving parent and were eager to have your children, but we can't forget some inter-family adoptions take place for very different reasons and it shows up later in a most painful manner. I married into that situation and the differences were very obvious and the pain felt is still present after all these years at times.

JMO based on life experience and nothing more.

[sexxytazz]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze [*]

I think every adoption is different and where one adopted child may feel totally secure another one may not and struggle with it. From what Mary said Maria had struggled for several years and was a loner somewhat. Maybe she felt she just did not fit in and felt it had a lot to do with her being adopted into the family.

So imo something was lacking in Maria's life. I do believe she loved Mary and her family but may have felt she had to only act according to what she knew they would accept.

Maria did not look through the eyes of Mary and I think giving Gabriel away for adoption just was unacceptable for her to do.

imoo [/*]

Like Maria I was adopted from within the family. My bio father was my adopted mothers brother. So my bio Aunt and Uncle became Mom and dad while my bio parents became Aunt and Uncle.
Because we do not know Marias bio family, I am not sure how much of my story comes into play with my theory, but here goes.
My bio parents had 7 children. I was the forth one born and the only one placed up for adoption. I had an "sister" 10 months older than me and a "brother" 7 months younger which is why I was placed for adoption (could not handle three kids so close in age or so I have always been told)
However when I was younger, I always believed that something "must" be wrong with me, why else would they keep the rest and not me? This lead to a very lonely life as I never felt like I belonged anywhere. Never made friends because I felt they would never stick around because something was wrong with me, so why bother. This was something inside of me and could not change, to this day I still have these feelings from time to time and find it difficult to have friendships and relationships outside my children and husband.
My children were the only thing that ever made these feelings lessen. So I can understand why Maria may have felt so strongly about keeping the baby. For some adopted children, they bring back the feeling of true family. And I had wonderful adoptive parents who loved and supported me, but it could not change what I felt on the inside.
I had my first child @19, but I can tell you I relied on my adopted moms advice. I was worried someday she may not want me anymore and many times I did as she asked, even though I may not agree with her just out of that fear. Now, she never asked me to give my child up for adoption but I could see myself telling her I would, just to keep her close out of the irrational fear that she would leave me if I didn't. I could also see my mom getting upset with me if I suddenly told her I changed my mind. Simply by talking to me about it, I would have felt I had disappointed her and been afraid she was going to desert me. At that age, I would have left and went away to have my baby. To me it would have been easier to leave than it would be to disappoint my mom and face her possibly "leaving me".

Now I do not know if Maria and Mary had the same relationship I had with my mom, nor do I claim to know Marias thoughts. But I wanted to share what my thought process would have been if I had been in Marias shoes. Just some food for thought.

[Mimi428]

Very early on, just after Maria's body was found in Cesar's back yard, a CNN broadcast made a reference to the possibility that Maria felt that she (& maybe Anne) were not treated the same as the biological children. I really can't find much more about it, other than it shows up in a transcript - here...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...12/cnr.07.html

HARRIS: Jennifer, we're learning more about Maria as well. She was adopted.

LADD: Yes. I'm sorry?

HARRIS: She was adopted.

LADD: Yes, she was adopted.

HARRIS: And this is a story where you're getting some details I know, Jennifer, where there was a history of some issues, perhaps related to that adoption, and how she felt about her family, related to her position in the family vis-a-vis the other children.

LADD: Yes, sir. Well, I talked to one of Maria's friends from when she was a young child. His name is Sean Gardner. He was talking about the fact that Maria may have felt at certain times that she wasn't exactly -- as an adopted child she wasn't treated necessarily the same as maybe a biological child. And she also had apparently a lot of emotional issues. A lot of trouble in her life.

In fact, Gardner said that when she joined the Marine Corps he hoped that it would give her a little discipline in her life, which she may really have needed. So, you know, with the different emotional issues, things that were going on, it's possible that if she was told she should give up the baby that that was a very difficult decision for her, since she was in fact adopted and maybe had problems with that herself.

That is all I can specifically find about it & I do take into account that Gardner may have made those remarks BEFORE it became obvious that Maria did not, in fact, take off & leave but was murdered.

I don't claim to know how either of the Lauterbach parents raised the children. I have known adoptees who always felt on the outside, who struggled with persistent doubts about their worth, etc. Much the same as stepchildren whose bio parent & step-parent have a child together - the child(ren) who are half-siblings to the bio child believe that person is treated better than they are.

OTOH, I have seen parents be fair & even-handed to all the children. IOW, the doubts in the mind of the person who feels slighted seem not to be based on any real or intended slight, but on perceived slights.

Since Maria & Anne are blood-related to Mary Lauterbach, I do wonder how much they ever heard about their bio parents AFTER they were adopted. I think it fairly unlikely that they never heard one bit of news or updates about how their bio mom & dad were - whether their problems continued, got worse, got better, etc.

JMO

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Mimi428 [*]Very early on, just after Maria's body was found in Cesar's back yard, a CNN broadcast made a reference to the possibility that Maria felt that she (& maybe Anne) were not treated the same as the biological children. I really can't find much more about it, other than it shows up in a transcript - here...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...12/cnr.07.html

HARRIS: Jennifer, we're learning more about Maria as well. She was adopted.

LADD: Yes. I'm sorry?

HARRIS: She was adopted.

LADD: Yes, she was adopted.

HARRIS: And this is a story where you're getting some details I know, Jennifer, where there was a history of some issues, perhaps related to that adoption, and how she felt about her family, related to her position in the family vis-a-vis the other children.

LADD: Yes, sir. Well, I talked to one of Maria's friends from when she was a young child. His name is Sean Gardner. He was talking about the fact that Maria may have felt at certain times that she wasn't exactly -- as an adopted child she wasn't treated necessarily the same as maybe a biological child. And she also had apparently a lot of emotional issues. A lot of trouble in her life.

In fact, Gardner said that when she joined the Marine Corps he hoped that it would give her a little discipline in her life, which she may really have needed. So, you know, with the different emotional issues, things that were going on, it's possible that if she was told she should give up the baby that that was a very difficult decision for her, since she was in fact adopted and maybe had problems with that herself.

SNIPPED
JMO [/*]

Now that you mention it, I remember something addressing how she felt as a member of the family during her growing years too.

But, I don't understand why what Gardner said might change. Could you explain?

If you asked outsiders about my in-laws they would tell you they were the pillars of the church and what a wonderful thing they did adopting so the child could stay in the family.

With regard to whether children are told about their biological parents in those situations,sometimes they are told when they make the same mistakes the biological parent did, and then some families choose to have open communication. I perceive those opting for open communication are the families who adopted with love in their hearts and not guilt or being put in a difficult situation of being the only couple who could afford it or had the resources IMOO.

I feel after listening to Mary and Peter talk about Maria's early years and the subsequent attempt to gloss over them thinking she was bipolar and the move to attachment disorder, I don't have much to say in favor of them adopting the girls. Yes, it was a kind and giving gesture. But, it seems that if there is a negative aspect, they want to go back to 19 months of age and I can't go there if you have a solid family foundation in all those years afterward. JMO tho and nothing more.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES [*]

Now that you mention it, I remember something addressing how she felt as a member of the family during her growing years too.

But, I don't understand why what Gardner said might change. Could you explain?
[/*]

I just can't think of any particularly good reason Gardner would have remarked about Maria feeling she had not being treated as fairly as the bio children had he been thinking at that same time that she was facing danger - as in murder.

No reason to bring up that subject when you are fearing that the person who disappeared could be in danger. Not saying he didn't know that info, just that it would not have been remotely relevant to remark about that subject IF he thought her disappearance meant she may have been a crime victim.

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by AnnieBean [*]

See, now I saw that 2nd casket as something differently entirely, I saw it as family affirmation that Gabriel did exist.
Had Gabriel been buried inside her, it woud have erupted into convo about how they wanted to hid the :"shame of the pregnancy" and some such rot.. [/*]

I guess it is all to do with individual perception, Annie. I had assumed (I know) that since Maria and Gabriel died as one they would be buried together. I saw the two caskets as a separation from mother and child. IMO even Gabriel's casket was not right along side of his mother's.

One of the most heartbreaking funerals I have attended was a young woman and her little 2 year old son. They were killed by a drunk driver. They both rested together in one casket and they had the adult casket spray draped in the middle for her and a small casket spray for him closer to the end where their heads' lay.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by sexxytazz [*]

Like Maria I was adopted from within the family. My bio father was my adopted mothers brother. So my bio Aunt and Uncle became Mom and dad while my bio parents became Aunt and Uncle.
Because we do not know Marias bio family, I am not sure how much of my story comes into play with my theory, but here goes.
My bio parents had 7 children. I was the forth one born and the only one placed up for adoption. I had an "sister" 10 months older than me and a "brother" 7 months younger which is why I was placed for adoption (could not handle three kids so close in age or so I have always been told)
However when I was younger, I always believed that something "must" be wrong with me, why else would they keep the rest and not me? This lead to a very lonely life as I never felt like I belonged anywhere. Never made friends because I felt they would never stick around because something was wrong with me, so why bother. This was something inside of me and could not change, to this day I still have these feelings from time to time and find it difficult to have friendships and relationships outside my children and husband.
My children were the only thing that ever made these feelings lessen. So I can understand why Maria may have felt so strongly about keeping the baby. For some adopted children, they bring back the feeling of true family. And I had wonderful adoptive parents who loved and supported me, but it could not change what I felt on the inside.
I had my first child @19, but I can tell you I relied on my adopted moms advice. I was worried someday she may not want me anymore and many times I did as she asked, even though I may not agree with her just out of that fear. Now, she never asked me to give my child up for adoption but I could see myself telling her I would, just to keep her close out of the irrational fear that she would leave me if I didn't. I could also see my mom getting upset with me if I suddenly told her I changed my mind. Simply by talking to me about it, I would have felt I had disappointed her and been afraid she was going to desert me. At that age, I would have left and went away to have my baby. To me it would have been easier to leave than it would be to disappoint my mom and face her possibly "leaving me".

Now I do not know if Maria and Mary had the same relationship I had with my mom, nor do I claim to know Marias thoughts. But I wanted to share what my thought process would have been if I had been in Marias shoes. Just some food for thought. [/*]

Thank you so much Sexxy for sharing your very poignant story.

imoo

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by AnnieBean [*]

See, now I saw that 2nd casket as something differently entirely, I saw it as famnily affirmation that gabriel did exist.
Had Gabriel been buried inside her, it woud have erupted into convo about how they wanted to hid the :"shame of the pregnancy" and some such rot.. [/*]

The other day when I received an update, in the article it said "The fetus was buried with Lauterbach."

To someone who didn't know different they would think they had been buried in the same casket, but maybe that's just my take on how it was worded
http://tinyurl.com/2xcza5:

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by AnnieBean [*]

See, now I saw that 2nd casket as something differently entirely, I saw it as famnily affirmation that gabriel did exist.
Had Gabriel been buried inside her, it woud have erupted into convo about how they wanted to hid the :"shame of the pregnancy" and some such rot.. [/*]

I saw it as you saw it, Annie.

[baywench]

I'm not sure I will be able to express this correctly but here goes...I feel Maria was almost in denial (at least emotionally) regarding the baby and just beginning to realize she was going to have to do something. IMO

[baywench]

Originally posted by SavannahStar [*]

I saw it as you saw it, Annie. [/*]

What an absolutely horrible decision to have to make. A child that is as far as you knew the child of rape. Now the child of your daughter's killer, but yet still your daughter's baby. Awful.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by baywench [*]

What an absolutely horrible decision to have to make. A child that is as far as you knew the child of rape. Now the child of your daughter's killer, but yet still your daughter's baby. Awful. [/*]

I agree... whatever her family decided is fine with me.

[baywench]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas [*]

I agree... whatever her family decided is fine with me. [/*]

ITA and I am so glad I never have had to make such a decision.

[baywench]

Where did everyone go? Hello....Hello.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by baywench [*]Where did everyone go? Hello....Hello. [/*]

I'm here... I do get upset, though, when folks question the Lauterbach decision to have two caskets. I thought it was a wonderful, life-affirming decision for baby Gabriel.

JMO

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by baywench [*]Where did everyone go? Hello....Hello. [/*]

I'm here, may be the only one. I'm doing stuff around the house and didn't hear post pop up, sorry bay.

oops, just saw gp ansered you

[baywench]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas [*]

I'm here... I do get upset, though, when folks question the Lauterbach decision to have two caskets. I thought it was a wonderful, life-affirming decision for baby Gabriel.

JMO [/*]

Well GP, I'm working. How come we are the only ones that apparently don't have a life?

[baywench]

Originally posted by IvySterling [*]
I'm here, may be the only one. I'm doing stuff around the house and didn't hear post pop up, sorry bay. [/*]

Oh Thank Goodness, I get very bored with my own company!

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by baywench [*]

Oh Thank Goodness, I get very bored with my own company! [/*]

Wish I could come up with an article about something in this case we haven't read but nothing...........always nothing on the weekends