Monday 03-17-08 a.m.

[henry]

good morning & happy st. patrick's day . . . the recent jd news article is cuasing a lot of comments and is worthy of a quick read. it appears (S) that someone's comments references setting up a "find cesar website" . . . also nate had an interesting comment if xtina was reading . . .

http://www.jdnews.com/news/baby_5547..._clothing.html

[/*]

and thank you regina.lampert for allowing me to copy one of your posts, delete your text & change it to the color to green.

[SavannahStar]

Who is nate?

[henry]

good morning sstar . . . if you go to the comments section of the link and then look for the names of the posters . . . you'll find it . . . hope this helps

[sexxytazz]

Morning all

Good day for him to be caught and locked up. I'm anxious for the holes to start being filled in.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by old_lady [*]After what Cesar put Christina through,
I don't think she cares what any poster writes. She has been through the worst. She only has to answer to LE anyway.

jmoo [/*]

Yep!

Happy St. Patrick's Day Everyone!

[caejde]

Good morning and Happy St. Patrick's Day! Hope everyone is wearing their green!

I am going to catch up on yesterday's threads and then be back.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert [*]Happy St. Patrick's Day Everyone! [/*]

Top o' the Mornin!

[hinman]

Originally posted by Lyn_T [*]Good Morning all. I am new to this board and have been attempting to read all messages before I posted. But - haven't been able to keep up and start at the beginning. The previous board I was on has gone to sleep.

Henry, I have been reading the comments section on all of JDN's articles and find it interesting to the posters there, some of which seem to be sending CL a message possibly IMO to flush him out.

I have some ?'s for everyone here:

Did any of you pick up on the AMW atm video there appears to be 2 people there, not just Laurean?

SNIPPED


Lyn [/*]

Welcome Lynn-T
I did not notice 2 people in the atm video I wil have to go look.

[strick10]

Originally posted by Lyn_T [*]Good Morning all. I am new to this board and have been attempting to read all messages before I posted. But - haven't been able to keep up and start at the beginning. The previous board I was on has gone to sleep.

Henry, I have been reading the comments section on all of JDN's articles and find it interesting to the posters there, some of which seem to be sending CL a message possibly IMO to flush him out.

I have some ?'s for everyone here:

Did any of you pick up on the AMW atm video there appears to be 2 people there, not just Laurean?

The time frame for DEC 14th has me curious with all that supposedly happened - ie, note to DD, phone call to Mom, atm visit, bus station, then Laureans home.

I was in J'ville around Jan 21st and did a run thru from what we knew at the time, clocking driving time etc. This was a weekend and not much traffic. Alot happened in a short amount of time.

I have many more ?'s but will stop here for now. Sorry to be jumping in here this late in the game.
Lyn [/*]

Welcome LynT. The AMW video has been discussed previously and some do see where it may have been 2 people at the teller, I'm sure this will come up again. Do you mean that you actually drove to all the locations Maria drove to on the 14th?

[caejde]

Good morning! Welcome aboard! Always good to have new people and new opinions. Enjoy it here!

Did not notice a second person at ATM. Had to edit my post because I swear I saw second person at Lowe's...maybe I need another cup of coffee!

As for the 14th, driving, traffic. I think it was close. I know Maria could have avoided Western Blvd after the bus station and drove a "back road". That would have some time...maybe 10 minutes. I live here and the only time I find the traffic isn't too terribly bad is 5:30 am on my way to the gym and morning hours. Lunch gets busy and afternoons are busy.

Anyway, welcome and post away with your questions...someone will try to answer them.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Lyn_T [*]Good Morning all. I am new to this board and have been attempting to read all messages before I posted. But - haven't been able to keep up and start at the beginning. The previous board I was on has gone to sleep.

Henry, I have been reading the comments section on all of JDN's articles and find it interesting to the posters there, some of which seem to be sending CL a message possibly IMO to flush him out.

I have some ?'s for everyone here:

Did any of you pick up on the AMW atm video there appears to be 2 people there, not just Laurean?

The time frame for DEC 14th has me curious with all that supposedly happened - ie, note to DD, phone call to Mom, atm visit, bus station, then Laureans home.

I was in J'ville around Jan 21st and did a run thru from what we knew at the time, clocking driving time etc. This was a weekend and not much traffic. Alot happened in a short amount of time.

I have many more ?'s but will stop here for now. Sorry to be jumping in here this late in the game.
Lyn [/*]

[

Mornin all


Welcome Lyn_T[

[henry]

Originally posted by bkwits [*]
[

Mornin all


Welcome Lyn_T[size=3][color=green] [/*]

you're a riot! someone just asked me why i'm laughing . . . also, my welcome lyn . . . i hope mini-me will help - this poster is good at deciphering and thinking out of the box . . . and i think we also have to think past the time xtina said she arrived home . . . i think we got a hint of this when they said it might have taken place on the 15th in published reports . . . maybe late at nite on the 14th - and carrying over to the early hours of the 15 . . . i don't know . . . jmo

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Lyn_T [*]Good Morning all. I am new to this board and have been attempting to read all messages before I posted. But - haven't been able to keep up and start at the beginning. The previous board I was on has gone to sleep.

Henry, I have been reading the comments section on all of JDN's articles and find it interesting to the posters there, some of which seem to be sending CL a message possibly IMO to flush him out.

I have some ?'s for everyone here:

Did any of you pick up on the AMW atm video there appears to be 2 people there, not just Laurean?

*snipped*

Lyn [/*]

Welcome! In answer to your first question - if you're talking about a second person possibly holding the rag in front of the camera - I don't think that is the case. If you will notice as Cesar walks away from the camera, the rag is in his hand. When would the handoff have been of the rag if it were held by someone else? And, if a person stands to the side of the ATM, can they really tell EXACTLY where the camera lens is without looking straight on to the ATM?

Welcome aboard, Lyn_T!

[strick10]

Originally posted by henry [*]

you're a riot! someone just asked me why i'm laughing . . . also, my welcome lyn . . . i hope mini-me will help - this poster is good at deciphering and thinking out of the box . . . and i think we also have to think past the time xtina said she arrived home . . . i think we got a hint of this when they said it might have taken place on the 15th in published reports . . . maybe late at nite on the 14th - and carrying over to the early hours of the 15 . . . i don't know . . . jmo [/*]

Good idea. The 14th didn't end at 7 when CSL supposedly got home. Not saying CSL was there when it happened or helped in the murder, I'm still in the middle on that one. But looking at the entire day of the 14th may open up some doors.

Originally posted by henry [*]

you're a riot! someone just asked me why i'm laughing . . . also, my welcome lyn . . . i hope mini-me will help - this poster is good at deciphering and thinking out of the box . . . and i think we also have to think past the time xtina said she arrived home . . . i think we got a hint of this when they said it might have taken place on the 15th in published reports . . . maybe late at nite on the 14th - and carrying over to the early hours of the 15 . . . i don't know . . . jmo [/*]

I've always believed (like you suggest) past the time CSL arrived home and into the early hours of the 15th.

My satellite has been down due to high winds and rain and so I haven't been able to read much for the last 3 days; Please excuse me if this has been talked over for days, I think because the autopsy wasn't able to exclusively determine the wound on the neck was post mortem, it may lend more credence to two people being there.

JMO

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by henry [*] good morning & happy st. patrick's day . . . the recent jd news article is cuasing a lot of comments and is worthy of a quick read. it appears (S) that someone's comments references setting up a "find cesar website" . . . also nate had an interesting comment if xtina was reading . . .

http://www.jdnews.com/news/baby_5547..._clothing.html

[/*]

and thank you regina.lampert for allowing me to copy one of your posts, delete your text & change it to the color to green. [/*]

Thanks for pointing us to the new comments - I agree with Nate.

My pure guess is that a few copies of that autopsy report are going to anonymously appear in front of Cesar's relatives & Christina & her relatives. And who knows, someone may translate the report into Spanish & get it to Cesar's kinfolks in Mexico.

Someone at his parents' house said on the phone, 'you don't know the whole story' (paraphrased). Yeah. No kidding. We sure didn't know about a whole lot of things, did we? I wonder if the person making that comment knew that a melted plastic bag containing an item of baby clothing, sized 0-3 months would be found in the fire pit.

On the plus side, since the autopsy report HAS been released, I am sure there are a slew of people who knew Cesar & thought well of him - his friends, his co-workers - who have had a real awakening.

Sutherland remarked that LE has been cutting off his resources. Perhaps someone who knows Cesar & has previously been on the fence about revealing info to LE will have sufficient pangs to their conscience that they will now come forward with additional info regarding his whereabouts, or how he conducted himself during the time the rape allegations were being 'investigated'.

JMO

Happy St. Pat's Day to all. "Éire go Brách"

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Lyn_T [*]Thanks everyone.

Yes Strick, I had some extra time this weekend and too many ?'s in my mind so I drove to all of the locations, sat there and contemplated on what if's, fact etc. The area where Maria lived, her atm machine, the bus station, by Laureans, Lowe's parking lot and Marine Federal ATM where he supposedly attempted to use her card.

I hope this link works to the picture still frame of the ATM video. I paused frame by frame and it appears to me there are 2 ppl there, or either someone has 2 right hands.
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...72/atmhand.gif

The hand with the rag has to be CL, his middle finger in other pics is much longer than the rest so it sticks out. But...WHO is the other person standing there clutching something in his/her right hand appearing to be looking down at the hand covering the camera? [/*]

I don't know how to save paused frames of video, so I was never able to see this before your post - but I see what you mean now! I agree, 2 right hands.

This was discussed in here before, but since I couldn't see what people meant, I can't really remember what their conclusions were.

[henry]

Originally posted by Mimi428 [*]

Thanks for pointing us to the new comments - I agree with Nate.

My pure guess is that a few copies of that autopsy report are going to anonymously appear in front of Cesar's relatives & Christina & her relatives. And who knows, someone may translate the report into Spanish & get it to Cesar's kinfolks in Mexico.

Someone at his parents' house said on the phone, 'you don't know the whole story' (paraphrased). Yeah. No kidding. We sure didn't know about a whole lot of things, did we? I wonder if the person making that comment knew that a melted plastic bag containing an item of baby clothing, sized 0-3 months would be found in the fire pit.

On the plus side, since the autopsy report HAS been released, I am sure there are a slew of people who knew Cesar & thought well of him - his friends, his co-workers - who have had a real awakening.

Sutherland remarked that LE has been cutting off his resources. Perhaps someone who knows Cesar & has previously been on the fence about revealing info to LE will have sufficient pangs to their conscience that they will now come forward with additional info regarding his whereabouts, or how he conducted himself during the time the rape allegations were being 'investigated'.

JMO

Happy St. Pat's Day to all. "Éire go Brách" [/*]

good morning . . . not trying to start a big broohah . . . but can the fbi monitor bank transactions of cesar's immediate family? i sure hope so . . . also found it interesting yesterday(?) that slaurean has not made any payments on the truck . . . i think that's what the post was in reference to . . . imo, of course.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Mimi428 [*]

Perhaps someone who knows Cesar & has previously been on the fence about revealing info to LE will have sufficient pangs to their conscience that they will now come forward with additional info regarding his whereabouts, or how he conducted himself during the time the rape allegations were being 'investigated'.

JMO

Happy St. Pat's Day to all. "Éire go Brách" [/*]

I agree, Mimi - I think there is a decent possibility that the release of the autopsy report may produce some movement in this case.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by henry [*]

good morning . . . not trying to start a big broohah . . . but can the fbi monitor bank transactions of cesar's immediate family? i sure hope so . . . also found it interesting yesterday(?) that slaurean has not made any payments on the truck . . . i think that's what the post was in reference to . . . imo, of course. [/*]

They can if they can get a judge to agree to it. I can't imagine a federal judge simply handing the FBI the permission for it, but if it can be shown to the judge that there is every reason to believe that money is/was being wired to Cesar after he went on the lam, I believe that 'should' be adequate cause to at least ask for permission to surveil. I think the addition of this case having international aspects - between at least Mexico & the USA - that may help the argument for justification for surveillance.

Not trying to go OT or anything, but with the additional leeway given to the Feds in the name of Homeland Security - I think there is a very good possibility that a whole lot of Cesar's known contacts are already being monitored in ways that would probably make most all of us paranoid.

But that's JMO.

Originally posted by Mimi428 [*]

Thanks for pointing us to the new comments - I agree with Nate.

My pure guess is that a few copies of that autopsy report are going to anonymously appear in front of Cesar's relatives & Christina & her relatives. And who knows, someone may translate the report into Spanish & get it to Cesar's kinfolks in Mexico.

Someone at his parents' house said on the phone, 'you don't know the whole story' (paraphrased). Yeah. No kidding. We sure didn't know about a whole lot of things, did we? I wonder if the person making that comment knew that a melted plastic bag containing an item of baby clothing, sized 0-3 months would be found in the fire pit.

On the plus side, since the autopsy report HAS been released, I am sure there are a slew of people who knew Cesar & thought well of him - his friends, his co-workers - who have had a real awakening.

Sutherland remarked that LE has been cutting off his resources. Perhaps someone who knows Cesar & has previously been on the fence about revealing info to LE will have sufficient pangs to their conscience that they will now come forward with additional info regarding his whereabouts, or how he conducted himself during the time the rape allegations were being 'investigated'.

JMO

Happy St. Pat's Day to all. "Éire go Brách" [/*]

Yes, now that the blinders are off concerning their "stellar" marine, hopefully somebody grows a spine and a conscience and starts talking and telling the truth. IMO.

[strick10]

Originally posted by Lyn_T [*]Thanks everyone.

Yes Strick, I had some extra time this weekend and too many ?'s in my mind so I drove to all of the locations, sat there and contemplated on what if's, fact etc. The area where Maria lived, her atm machine, the bus station, by Laureans, Lowe's parking lot and Marine Federal ATM where he supposedly attempted to use her card.

-snipped-
[/*]

So what aRE your assessment/thoughts in regard to drive?

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Mimi428 [*]

Thanks for pointing us to the new comments - I agree with Nate.

My pure guess is that a few copies of that autopsy report are going to anonymously appear in front of Cesar's relatives & Christina & her relatives. And who knows, someone may translate the report into Spanish & get it to Cesar's kinfolks in Mexico.

Someone at his parents' house said on the phone, 'you don't know the whole story' (paraphrased). Yeah. No kidding. We sure didn't know about a whole lot of things, did we? I wonder if the person making that comment knew that a melted plastic bag containing an item of baby clothing, sized 0-3 months would be found in the fire pit.

On the plus side, since the autopsy report HAS been released, I am sure there are a slew of people who knew Cesar & thought well of him - his friends, his co-workers - who have had a real awakening.

Sutherland remarked that LE has been cutting off his resources. Perhaps someone who knows Cesar & has previously been on the fence about revealing info to LE will have sufficient pangs to their conscience that they will now come forward with additional info regarding his whereabouts, or how he conducted himself during the time the rape allegations were being 'investigated'.

JMO

Happy St. Pat's Day to all. "Éire go Brách" [/*]

I fail to see any usefulness or sense in anonymously putting a copy of the autopsy report on the doorsteps of Cesar's relatives or Christina or her relatives.

As far as the autopsy changing minds of a "slew" of people who thought well of Cesar....disagree there too. Why would the autopsy make a bit of difference? Do you honestly believe that these people still thought well of Cesar after the publicity surrounding the murder and his fleeing? He was charged with murder. The charred and buried body was recovered. So they thought well of him after that? I don't think so for a minute! But all of a sudden an autopsy report changed their minds? That blows my mind that anyone would think that. Anyone who thought well of him changed their mind after the murder....didn't have to wait for an autopsy.

I also don't think too many (other than crime board people like us) are going to be too interested in the actual autopsy report. They may read a news article about it, but few would probably take the time to download the .pdf file and bother to read the details.

IMO.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by caejde [*]Good morning and Happy St. Patrick's Day! Hope everyone is wearing their green!

I am going to catch up on yesterday's threads and then be back. [/*]

I'm not yet but the green is going on since I've been pinched too many time so far!

[caejde]

Originally posted by nuttintodo [*]

I'm not yet but the green is going on since I've been pinched too many time so far! [/*]

I'm not wearing green either but noone is home but me and the baby!

[Kel65]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas [*]

I agree, Mimi - I think there is a decent possibility that the release of the autopsy report may produce some movement in this case. [/*]

I wonder if profilers or such encouraged the release of the ME report knowing that something in it might flush out CAL? Not sure what. . . Just thinking out loud and of course speculation on my part.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert [*]

Yes, now that the blinders are off concerning their "stellar" marine, hopefully somebody grows a spine and a conscience and starts talking and telling the truth. IMO. [/*]

Good point about the added necessity to grow a spine.

I have contemplated how sick & horrified the people who were in attendance at the Laurean residence probably felt when they learned about what was REALLY in that fire pit while they were there. OTOH, I can imagine that some of Cesar's friends have engaged in all sorts of mental & emotional gymnastics of denial to try to alleviate the horror. I don't doubt that there is at least a handful of Cesar's buds who have expressed the thought that "if that bi#ch hadn't...".

So for all of those who may have had thoughts like that - I hope upon hope that they have someone close to them, someone they really care about, who is assisting them in growing a spine AND a conscience & encouraging them to reveal ALL that they know.

I don't get into promoting shame and/or guilt. I hate the tactic of scolding grown people. But this is certainly a situation where I am willing to make a huge exception & state that I hope everyone who knows more than they have told is visited repeatedly by visions of horror over what was found in that burn pit. I hope when they think of Maria & Gabriel lying in that ground, burned & desecrated, that pictures of the faces of all the women & babies THEY love come to mind.

JMO

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by SavannahStar [*]

I fail to see any usefulness or sense in anonymously putting a copy of the autopsy report on the doorsteps of Cesar's relatives or Christina or her relatives.
[/*]

<snipped>

Usefulness or sense to it was not claimed by me in my post. I can think of a whole lot of stuff other folks have done that did not make a bit of sense to me, but they still did it.

Originally posted by Jas.S [*]

Oh, I don't know about that.

I guess they could shop around for a judge, but that is a hard sell.

Also, why would his friends and family--who have always had good opinions of CL and love him--"turn" on him if they see the autopsy report?

There was nothing in it other than the item of baby clothing in the melting bag. So, how would make them change their minds about CL? Seriously asking, not being sarcastic. [/*]

Why not? The autopsy report had a significant effect on all of us, I would imagine his family who are much more involved in laurean's life then we are, would also be devastated by it and its implications.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by old_lady [*]

I think his family and lawyer(s) would be very interested in reading it. They have probably already down loaded it.

It is different from hearing about something and seeing it in black and white on paper.

jmoo [/*]

True. You don't have to have downloaded the files to have read newspaper articles which stated that the baby clothing in the melted bag was found - something not known previously.

And the articles also reported about Maria's hands & lower legs being charred off - another thing found out w/o the pdf. files. And so on.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Kel65 [*]

I wonder if profilers or such encouraged the release of the ME report knowing that something in it might flush out CAL? Not sure what. . . Just thinking out loud and of course speculation on my part. [/*]

Hmmmm - I had not been thinking about that, but that is a good point, IMO. Sutherland previously stated that a daily update goes on between the LE branches involved, so I can imagine the merits of doing just that could have been discussed.

Originally posted by Mimi428 [*]

Good point about the added necessity to grow a spine.

I have contemplated how sick & horrified the people who were in attendance at the Laurean residence probably felt when they learned about what was REALLY in that fire pit while they were there. OTOH, I can imagine that some of Cesar's friends have engaged in all sorts of mental & emotional gymnastics of denial to try to alleviate the horror. I don't doubt that there is at least a handful of Cesar's buds who have expressed the thought that "if that bi#ch hadn't...".

So for all of those who may have had thoughts like that - I hope upon hope that they have someone close to them, someone they really care about, who is assisting them in growing a spine AND a conscience & encouraging them to reveal ALL that they know.

I don't get into promoting shame and/or guilt. I hate the tactic of scolding grown people. But this is certainly a situation where I am willing to make a huge exception & state that I hope everyone who knows more than they have told is visited repeatedly by visions of horror over what was found in that burn pit. I hope when they think of Maria & Gabriel lying in that ground, burned & desecrated, that pictures of the faces of all the women & babies THEY love come to mind.

JMO [/*]

Absolutely! I will be satisfied if they just keep to their Code of Honor.


Honor: Honor requires each Marine to exemplify the ultimate standard in ethical and moral conduct. Honor is many things; honor requires many things. A U.S. Marine must never lie, never cheat, never steal, but that is not enough. Much more is required. Each Marine must cling to an uncompromising code of personal integrity, accountable for his actions and holding others accountable for theirs. And, above all, honor mandates that a Marine never sully the reputation of his Corps.


http://www.usmcpress.com/heritage/corp_values.htm

[mini-me]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert [*]

Why not? The autopsy report had a significant effect on all of us, I would imagine his family who are much more involved in laurean's life then we are, would also be devastated by it and its implications. [/*]

It would affect the family more if they released the DNA. That's assuming CAL is the father. The family would then know their wonderful son murdered one of their own.

[hinman]

Originally posted by mini-me [*]It would affect the family more if they released the DNA. That's assuming CAL is the father. The family would then know their wonderful son murdered one of their own. [/*]

I agree, it might even affect Christina a little bit to know for sure that the baby was Cl's if that is what the DNA proved.

Of course since he is claiming no sex at least the family will know there was sex and this was not a girl making a lie about the whole thing. I seem to think he told his family and Christina as well that he never had sex with Maria and she was just doing this because she stalked him or who knows why he says she was making this claim.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by hinman [*]I agree, it might even affect Christina a little bit to know for sure that the baby was Cl's if that is what the DNA proved.

Of course since he is claiming no sex at least the family will know there was sex and this was not a girl making a lie about the whole thing. I seem to think he told his family and Christina as well that he never had sex with Maria and she was just doing this because she stalked him or who knows why he says she was making this claim. [/*]

I'm thinking by now his family knows of the friends confirming a relationship between the two of them and the fact that Maria readjusted her statement on November 5th to say the baby was not a product of rape, but yet it appears she didn't rule him out as the father.


JMOOC.

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES [*]

I'm thinking by now his family knows of the friends confirming a relationship between the two of them and the fact that Maria readjusted her statement on November 5th to say the baby was not a product of rape, but yet it appears she didn't rule him out as the father.


JMOOC. [/*]

Could you please give us a link to the fact you have just posted. Thanks so much.

[hinman]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES [*]

I'm thinking by now his family knows of the friends confirming a relationship between the two of them and the fact that Maria readjusted her statement on November 5th to say the baby was not a product of rape, but yet it appears she didn't rule him out as the father.


JMOOC. [/*]

Candy they probably do know what has been reported but until they see some kind of fact of the relationship besides hearsay I lean toward them believing Cl.

Could be wrong though there are even posters on here and there is nothing wrong with it who do not believe a relationship happened so I would assume there is a chance the family might think there is a chance but want evidence before not believing CL.

[henry]

Originally posted by Mimi428 [*]

Hmmmm - I had not been thinking about that, but that is a good point, IMO. Sutherland previously stated that a daily update goes on between the LE branches involved, so I can imagine the merits of doing just that could have been discussed. [/*]

yup . . . and that's one of the questions in round 2 that's with captain rsutherland:

18. Have professional profilers come up with a profile for Cesar, and if so, when will this information be conveyed to the public?