Thursday * 03-13-08 * a.m.

henry · #1 03-13-2008, 06:04 AM

good morning . . . like to make "last call" on the questions thread - i see it hasn't been closed yet. for your info, when the questions were compiled, each poster's name was removed from their particular question so there would be an objective, non-partisan basket to sort thru . . . hah i didn't use the word "bag" and it's been great not having to put on my flack jacket. since spring starts next week - let's pray that cesar has been captured by then and doesn't get to smell the flowers. oh, and the st. paddy's day parades start saturday - check your local listings for the one nearest you!

henry · #2 03-13-2008, 06:15 AM

i don't know how many of you have been following the postings of eddie . . . but his father has posted a new one:

Many of the readers of the New Media Journal were introduced to Eddie last February 1, 2007 with his now famous article “Hope Rides Alone.” Within an hour of Frank Salvato publishing Eddie’s article I began receiving dozens of emails daily for 3 weeks straight. Eddie had touched the heart strings of those who love our troops. Others were not so enamored with Eddie’s treatise and sent some pretty derisive comments; most dissenters questioned Eddie’s authorship with his being “only an infantryman.”
http://www.newmediajournal.us/guest/...8/03122008.htm

crymeariver2006 · #3 03-13-2008, 07:10 AM

O/T - Second suspect in Eve Carson murder was arrested this morning.

CANDYKISSES · #4 03-13-2008, 09:10 AM

A quick hello and another sad day to see Cesar is still on the run. Hopefully soon there will be some movement and the agents searching for him will get a break.

Lynn Gweeny · #5 03-13-2008, 09:17 AM

Morning!

This was the video from a 5:00 p.m broadcast and phone interview with Congressman Turner on local wdtn.com from Tuesday. There was going to be an update about his concerns about Christina Laurean returning to active duty.

New Questions About Lauterbach’s Death (2:30) (3/11/08)

(Congressman Turner)

http://tinyurl.com/27ln8q

This was the only video 'update' I could find on the site which also talks about a further update on their 6:00 p.m. news last night (still searching for that, also).

New Information in the Maria Lauterbach Death (1:51) (3/12/08)

(Mary Lauterbach is speaking about the new Congressional investigation into her daughter’s death)

http://tinyurl.com/2enywf

henry · #6 03-13-2008, 09:34 AM

hah! wanted to see if anyone noticed . . . of course i expected you tooo AB. also, i can't get that link to open either - it's been a continuing problem with it . . . and i've got cable/optimumonline . . . is that bad?

caejde · #7 03-13-2008, 09:34 AM

Morning all! I am sorry I didn't get to come back last night and I didn't tell anyone 'goodnight'. I went to eat dinner and was going to come back online and never did. Oh well, have to catch up with last nights thread.

I wish Cesar would hurry and get caught.

Lynn Gweeny · #8 03-13-2008, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by old_lady [*]I can't get any videos to play from that newspaper or whatever it is. I don't know why.

[/*]

Good morning old_lady. Just go to the main page and click on the small picture of Maria in the upper left hand corner for the video ... New Information in the Maria Lauterbach Death

http://www.wdtn.com/default.asp

For the video ... New Questions About Lauterbach’s Death, go to the link below and scroll down about 1/2 way and under Featured Video is where it is located. Hope that helps! (in fact, both videos can be found at the link below)

http://www.wdtn.com/Global/category....&nav=menu590_2

henry · #9 03-13-2008, 10:11 AM

thanks LG - i was on the home page & it does work!!!! yahoo!!!!!

caejde · #10 03-13-2008, 10:32 AM

I know it was brought up last night and it was answered but here is what I found out about amniocentesis.

http://www.webmd.com/baby/guide/amniocentesis

Does not say it is used for DNA purposes, it is done usually between 15-18 weeks and it can cause preterm labor. It is done to look for some birth defects but it can also tell you the sex of the baby. But there is no mention that it's done for DNA purposes. Doesn't mean it can't be done but what I take from that is amnio is done only to determine birth defects. Very informative link. As to the cost...yes, it is expensive. But with Maria being active duty, she would not have incurred any of those costs.

Also, I don't know why this bugs me but it does. The Marine Corps did not make the mistake on Maria going to her 12/26 OB appointment. That was actually the Navy-and they do have civilians working in their office as well. Marine Corps do not have doctors. So, it was the OB's office that made the mistake and the Marine Corps just went based off of what they knew.

Due dates can be wrong. We don't know what Maria's cycle was like-whether it was regular or irregular. She very well could have been pregnant in May and the test could have been faulty, etc. It does happen. And that is why I asked early on if the OB's office would have done an internal sonogram at the initial confirmation visit to date the pregnancy. I know with my last pregnancy-which was back in 2006 they did (not military thought). They didn't with my son in 2001 when I was military but things could have changed. Anyway, I was told that doing an internal sonogram is better at dating than the 20 week sonogram. For example, at my initial, they said baby would be due Jan. 9. At 20 week, it was changed to Jan. 18. At my next appoitment, they changed it back to Jan. 10 and said "I don't know why it was changed. Based on the internal sonogram and LMP it wouldn't be Jan. 18". But I believe if she were pregnant in May she would have started experiencing symptoms alot earlier than the end of June. JMO based on my experiences of being pregnant.

caejde · #11 03-13-2008, 10:37 AM

Also, I do remember it being said-I believe in the Marine press conference and I will go look that up. But I believe it was said that trial counsel-meaning JAG-reported to the commander that they didn't have enough for charges. However, it was the commander that was intent on going to an Article 32.

Edited to add my thanks to Lynn: Lynn, thank you for finding that link last night about the uncle. Much appreciated!

Lynn Gweeny · #12 03-13-2008, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by caejde [*]Also, I do remember it being said-I believe in the Marine press conference and I will go look that up. But I believe it was said that trial counsel-meaning JAG-reported to the commander that they didn't have enough for charges. However, it was the commander that was intent on going to an Article 32.

Edited to add my thanks to Lynn: Lynn, thank you for finding that link last night about the uncle. Much appreciated! [/*]

You're welcome caejde. This is from the MC PC 1/15:

On October 22, 2007, the regimental commander submits a request for legal services requesting prosecutors review the investigation and provide a recommended Course of Action with an eye towards an Article 32 investigation. An Article 32 investigation allows for witnesses to testify under oath and subject to cross examination. An accused is present and represented by counsel.

On October 23rd, trial counsel discusses the case with the regimental commander.

On November 26, 2007 ... At this point in the alleged rape investigation, the regimental commander and trial counsel continue to discuss the evidence and the possible charges, if any, to prefer against Cpl Laurean. The regimental commander has not made a decision regarding what charges, if any, to prefer against Cpl Laurean and has not consulted with his Staff Judge Advocate. Cpl Laurean has not been detailed government defense counsel and no Article 32 hearing is scheduled as Cpl Laurean has not been charged with any offenses.

http://www.nbc17.com/midatlantic/ncn...1-15-0028.html

strick10 · #13 03-13-2008, 11:09 AM

Lynn you're the best! Morning all. Maybe today will be the day that CL is captured and brought back alive.

GentleBreeze · #14 03-13-2008, 11:14 AM

I wonder what is causing the screen to widen this morning?

Does anyone know what causes that?

imoo

caejde · #15 03-13-2008, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by old_lady [*]It looks to me as though they hadn't made a decision yet. As to what charges to prefer, if any, against Cpl. laurean stands out to me.

They were looking at other charges which doesn't necessarily mean Rape was the only charge on the table.

Since they were waiting for DNA from the baby, there could be other charges coming out of that.

I do not believe this investigation is closed as of now.

JMO [/*]

They were waiting on the DNA of the baby. If the baby was proven to be his, it doesn't prove rape but it does prove that he had sex with her...which he denied. So, those charges would then be fraternization and adultery.

caejde · #16 03-13-2008, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GentleBreeze [*]I wonder what is causing the screen to widen this morning?

Does anyone know what causes that?

imoo [/*]

I don't know what causes it. But it's aggravating.

strick10 · #17 03-13-2008, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GentleBreeze [*]I wonder what is causing the screen to widen this morning?

Does anyone know what causes that?

imoo [/*]

Glad to know I'm not the only one seeing a wide screen, thought it was my computer. Good morning GB.......

Lynn Gweeny · #18 03-13-2008, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by old_lady [*]It looks to me as though they hadn't made a decision yet. As to what charges to prefer, if any, against Cpl. laurean stands out to me.

They were looking at other charges which doesn't necessarily mean Rape was the only charge on the table.

Since they were waiting for DNA from the baby, there could be other charges coming out of that.

I don not believe this investigation is closed as of now.

JMO [/*]

I don't think so either, old_lady. I guess we can only go by what Mr. Cicarrelli said in the 1/11 PC:

CICCARELLI: IF she dropped them, then it wouldn't be an active investigation.

QUESTION: Is Corporal Lauren now facing charges in rape, still just an investigation or ...

CICCARELLI: The investigation is still active. Still open.

The other information Mr. Cicarrelli gave in the same PC was about the Article 32 hearing, but unfortunately there was no specific date given as to when exactly that was going to occur and if both Maria and Cesar were aware of it:

QUESTION: Mr. Ciccarelli, can you shed light on when she was supposed to testify or be involved again in the process?

CICCARELLI: Discussions were underway to have an Article 32. For those not familiar with an Article 32, it's equivalent to a civilian grand jury. Fact finding. Determine if there's enough information from the investigation to go forward with a court-martial. That's what was scheduled. An Article 32 on the sexual assault investigation.

QUESTION: Was there a date was there a date ...

CICCARELLI: It was during December.

QUESTION: During the time she disappeared?

CICCARELLI: Yes.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...11/ywt.01.html

strick10 · #19 03-13-2008, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by caejde [*]

They were waiting on the DNA of the baby. If the baby was proven to be his, it doesn't prove rape but it does prove that he had sex with her...which he denied. So, those charges would then be fraternization and adultery. [/*]

Let's not forget giving false statements.

caejde · #20 03-13-2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by old_lady [*]

Maybe they were looking at Maria for the same charges because it was said she was facing a discharge. Maybe that is why she decided she had had it with the Marines and wanted to just leave. She reported an alleged rape only to have it turn around a bite her.

JMO [/*]

I don't think you get discharged for adultery or fraternization. Strick, can you shed some light on that since you were in longer than me? In my opinion, I think if he was charged with adultery and frat, he would have been reduced in rank, maybe restriction, something along those lines.

caejde · #21 03-13-2008, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by strick10 [*]

Let's not forget giving false statements. [/*]

Yep, I did forget that.

bkwits · #22 03-13-2008, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by caejde [*]I know it was brought up last night and it was answered but here is what I found out about amniocentesis.

http://www.webmd.com/baby/guide/amniocentesis

Does not say it is used for DNA purposes, it is done usually between 15-18 weeks and it can cause preterm labor. It is done to look for some birth defects but it can also tell you the sex of the baby. But there is no mention that it's done for DNA purposes. Doesn't mean it can't be done but what I take from that is amnio is done only to determine birth defects. Very informative link. As to the cost...yes, it is expensive. But with Maria being active duty, she would not have incurred any of those costs.

Also, I don't know why this bugs me but it does. The Marine Corps did not make the mistake on Maria going to her 12/26 OB appointment. That was actually the Navy-and they do have civilians working in their office as well. Marine Corps do not have doctors. So, it was the OB's office that made the mistake and the Marine Corps just went based off of what they knew.

Due dates can be wrong. We don't know what Maria's cycle was like-whether it was regular or irregular. She very well could have been pregnant in May and the test could have been faulty, etc. It does happen. And that is why I asked early on if the OB's office would have done an internal sonogram at the initial confirmation visit to date the pregnancy. I know with my last pregnancy-which was back in 2006 they did (not military thought). They didn't with my son in 2001 when I was military but things could have changed. Anyway, I was told that doing an internal sonogram is better at dating than the 20 week sonogram. For example, at my initial, they said baby would be due Jan. 9. At 20 week, it was changed to Jan. 18. At my next appoitment, they changed it back to Jan. 10 and said "I don't know why it was changed. Based on the internal sonogram and LMP it wouldn't be Jan. 18". But I believe if she were pregnant in May she would have started experiencing symptoms alot earlier than the end of June. JMO based on my experiences of being pregnant. [/*]

j

MORNIN'

Thank you for that information, Caejde

caejde · #23 03-13-2008, 11:29 AM

Something else that was mentioned yesterday. And I know I responded to it, but I know there was still talk of it afterwards. I don't think not using any type of birth control proves rape or no rape. All it proves was Maria got pregnant. And as we all know, birth control is not 100% effective. And if everyone was conscious to use it, the teen pregnancy rate wouldn't be what it is and the STD rate wouldn't be what it is either...and this is not just for teens but for everyone.

caejde · #24 03-13-2008, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bkwits [*]
j

MORNIN'

Thank you for that information, Caejde

[/*]

Hi! Hope you're feeling better!

caejde · #25 03-13-2008, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by old_lady [*]

I would think the Marine's could do just about anything they want. There may be a range of punishment to give out so I would think a discharge of some sort could be within that range.

jmoo [/*]

They do have certain guidelines. But my time in, I never saw one person get discharged for adultery or fraternization. And I would have known being I was in charge of personal effects. And they probably would have gotten out with an Other Than Honorable discharge. And if that was the case, they have to turn in all of their uniforms. And that was part of my job. And all the uniforms that were turned in to me were all drug related discharges.

strick10 · #26 03-13-2008, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by caejde [*]

I don't think you get discharged for adultery or fraternization. Strick, can you shed some light on that since you were in longer than me? In my opinion, I think if he was charged with adultery and frat, he would have been reduced in rank, maybe restriction, something along those lines. [/*]

I agree w/ you caejde. These would most likely not have ended eithers military service. Rank reduction, restriction and probably fines would be the end result.

caejde · #27 03-13-2008, 11:39 AM

I've been thinking about this the past couple of days. How did Sgt Durham know to contact anyone in Maria's family and how did he have their phone numbers?

Lynn Gweeny · #28 03-13-2008, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by caejde [*]I've been thinking about this the past couple of days. How did Sgt Durham know to contact anyone in Maria's family and how did he have their phone numbers? [/*]

Perhaps on her rental agreement she had to have listed a couple of emergency contact numbers, her sister being one, maybe. IIRC he called Maria's sister and then Mary called him. JMO

crymeariver2006 · #29 03-13-2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by caejde [*]I've been thinking about this the past couple of days. How did Sgt Durham know to contact anyone in Maria's family and how did he have their phone numbers? [/*]

May have been something on the lease "In case of emergency contact"....or he could have already talked to the sister and the mother on another occasion right after she moved in.

strick10 · #30 03-13-2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by caejde [*]

They do have certain guidelines. But my time in, I never saw one person get discharged for adultery or fraternization. And I would have known being I was in charge of personal effects. And they probably would have gotten out with an Other Than Honorable discharge. And if that was the case, they have to turn in all of their uniforms. And that was part of my job. And all the uniforms that were turned in to me were all drug related discharges. [/*]

Absolutely caejde. As I've said before, it takes alot to to get kicked out. Drugs are on the top of the list. Which brings a question to mind. I know that because CL was married and living off base his personal effects wouldn't be collected by the MC w/ the exception of maybe his 782 gear. Now w/ Maria whom also lived off base would the MC be authorized to collect her personal effects? I just can't remember what the procedure for that is and since you probably remember right off the top of your head thought I'd ask.

caejde · #31 03-13-2008, 11:42 AM

True, wasn't thinking about the lease agreement. I don't remember if we ever had to put down that info.

bkwits · #32 03-13-2008, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by caejde [*]

Hi! Hope you're feeling better! [/*]

I'm not sure, but I guess I am.

martha · #33 03-13-2008, 11:44 AM

Just wanted to say hi to everyone. got to do my taxes today so want be here long. To jas.s I did not mean to sound like I was just talking about men telling women a lot of stuff to get what they want. gosh women do it even more than men and we all know the men is the weaker sex when it comes to sex lol. I am sorry if it sounded like I was just blaming men. Women have broke up a lot of homes. it goes both way in my book

I did not take it personal. Thanks jas.s for your point of view/

nuttintodo · #34 03-13-2008, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by crymeariver2006 [*]

May have been something on the lease "In case of emergency contact"....or he could have already talked to the sister and the mother on another occasion right after she moved in.

[/*]

Mornin' cryme!

DD may have asked Maria to provide contact numbers, so you are probably right in your assumption. I also know that most rental contracts do require emergency contact numbers for that just in case moment.

O/T: Lovette has also been charged in the Duke grad student's murder and they are currently investigating whether Atwater was involved in that murder too.

JMO

caejde · #35 03-13-2008, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by strick10 [*]

Absolutely caejde. As I've said before, it takes alot to to get kicked out. Drugs are on the top of the list. Which brings a question to mind. I know that because CL was married and living off base his personal effects wouldn't be collected by the MC w/ the exception of maybe his 782 gear. Now w/ Maria whom also lived off base would the MC be authorized to collect her personal effects? I just can't remember what the procedure for that is and since you probably remember right off the top of your head thought I'd ask. [/*]

Yes, it would have and it was inventoried and turned into supply. And this is done because she did not have any dependents living with her that would take responsibility. Usually for deployments and such, all the married personnel that live on and off base sign a waiver stating they choose to not have it inventoried as it is being left with NOK, etc. And all the single ones in the barracks have to pack their stuff up and turn it in to supply.

caejde · #36 03-13-2008, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by old_lady [*]

Would that occur before the investigation was complete and the article 32 hearing? [/*]

Would what occur?

Lynn Gweeny · #37 03-13-2008, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by strick10 [*]

Absolutely caejde. As I've said before, it takes alot to to get kicked out. Drugs are on the top of the list. Which brings a question to mind. I know that because CL was married and living off base his personal effects wouldn't be collected by the MC w/ the exception of maybe his 782 gear. Now w/ Maria whom also lived off base would the MC be authorized to collect her personal effects? I just can't remember what the procedure for that is and since you probably remember right off the top of your head thought I'd ask. [/*]

This is what was said in the 1/15 PC:

On December 28, 2007, as Sgt Durham is about to depart for training in California, and with Sgt Durham’s permission, the command inventories and boxes LCpl Lauterbach’s personal belongings at the residence in order to secure her property.

On Thursday, January 3rd, 2008, the command turns in LCpl Lauterbach’s inventoried gear to the supply warehouse. Supply re-inventories the gear and reports no discrepancies from the original inventory sheets.

On Thursday, January 10th, 2008, LCpl Lauterbach’s personal possessions are turned over to NCIS for delivery to Onslow County Sheriff’s Office.

http://www.nbc17.com/midatlantic/ncn...1-15-0028.html

strick10 · #38 03-13-2008, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by old_lady [*]

Would that occur before the investigation was complete and the article 32 hearing? [/*]

In this case, yes it would be done before the investigation was completed. I can't recall the timeframe that a unit is to collect a Marines personal effects after being listed as UA or otherwise gone, I want to say 24 hrs. but caedje can probably be more precise on that. Personal effects are gathered, inventoried and stored in secured area to prevent theft etc.

bkwits · #39 03-13-2008, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by caejde [*]Something else that was mentioned yesterday. And I know I responded to it, but I know there was still talk of it afterwards. I don't think not using any type of birth control proves rape or no rape. All it proves was Maria got pregnant. And as we all know, birth control is not 100% effective. And if everyone was conscious to use it, the teen pregnancy rate wouldn't be what it is and the STD rate wouldn't be what it is either...and this is not just for teens but for everyone. [/*]

I was in on that convo although not too coherent. What I meant was the pregnancy as a result of the rape (if it is) does not prove the rape. However, if Maria and CL were having a regular affair, it is likely that one or both would be using birth control.

So, it is not that the lack of birth control proves the rape, but it does add an element that makes an ongoing long term affair seem less likely. IMO

caejde · #40 03-13-2008, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by old_lady [*]

Turning in uniforms and all their supplies.
One was still active and the other was only unauthorized leave for that time. Maybe I just don't understand.

jmoo [/*]

Uniforms are only turned in if you are receiving any discharge except for honorable. Anything other than honorable, bad conduct, or dishonorable requires you to turn in all of your issued uniforms.

Since Cesar is a deserter, his 782 gear has probably been turned back into supply. And if Cesar receives a bad conduct, other than honorable, or dishonorable he will be required to turn in his uniforms. I would love to be the one to take those away from him!

Maria's stuff-and this was uniforms and anything else that was occupying the apartment that was hers-was boxed up and turned into supply because it was considered unsecured since she had no NOK or dependents that would take care of it.