Saturday-03/08/08-a.m.

[henry]

good morning - well we're on day 58 and a friendly reminder to spring forward tonite. i'm really stretching for opening remarks, but here it goes.



i also did some googling last nite for "selective hearing" and "selective reading" and found the following links:

http://www.southampton.liu.edu/fw/po...e_guide/g6.htm
&
http://www.leaderu.com/cl-institute/habits/habit5.html
maybe we can get a group discount on this book

edit . . . i printed out yesterday's 1st page & showed it to dh . . . his 1st question was . . . what's JMO? his 2nd . . . i don't have a clue about what you're talking about . . . the rest of the posts he LHAO.

[crymeariver2006]

Another big day of college surfing around here. Hopefully it won't rain all day again today.

If any news on this case breaks, I'll have to swipe some poor kid's laptop and come here to get the scoop.

[henry]

good morning AB - just took off my flack jacket . . . not touching decisions without a 10' pole & with it on . . . sorry

Good morning.

I would love if Captain Sutherland would expand on his answer to this question:

5) Is there any evidence that shows contact between Laurean and Maria prior to Maria's arrival at the Laurean home? (I'm sure you can't answer this directly but the posters would just like a yes or no answer)

Yes

My follow-up question would be "Was this contact consensual or non consensual?

[caejde]

Good morning everyone. We all just woke up in my house! Hardly ever sleep this late. Waiting on coffee and then going to join my husband and kids for a movie. I'll catch up on last nights posts and be around off and on this morning!

[bkwits]

Mornin'

Did I miss anything last night? I was kind of in and out. I'm better today.

.
Good morning

I want to post these words by Rick....

"I will say again that if we develop probable cause that anyone else was involved before or after the fact, we will charge that person in relation to this crime. To this point, that has not occurred."

"This is an ongoing investigation."

[bkwits]

If you are implying that Ctina is involved in the murders or the covering up of the crime, I am having an increasingly difficult time of seeing that.

That being said, I still find it difficult to believe that she couldn't have suspected something before that conversation in the car on the way to the attorney's office. IMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by JanDoe [*].
Good morning

I want to post these words by Rick....

"I will say again that if we develop probable cause that anyone else was involved before or after the fact, we will charge that person in relation to this crime. To this point, that has not occurred."

"This is an ongoing investigation." [/*]

Good Morning Jan.

Doesn't look like many are on this board today. Maybe they are out enjoying the weather if it is nice where they are.

There is absolutely no rush in this case concerning Christina Laurean. They have actually had more valuable time to investigate before an arrest has been made as Laurean hasn't even been brought back or even arrested and arraigned.

It is so much more advantageous for LE to have her talking than clamming up. I have full confidence that they know what they are doing and that is why neither Captain Sutherland nor the DA has come out and ruled Christina out and they won't imo because they haven't ruled her out as participating during or after this crime.

It is evidence to me they want more than anything to be able to see if Laurean will talk when he is returned even if it is with his lawyer advising him. To me this thing will really heat up once he is in custody of the OCSD.

And if they are going to make a plea deal with her that will not happen now until all evidence is known and participants have made plea deals the day before they are expected to testify.

So much is to be learned about the true involvement of this woman who was determined to stand by her man.

imoo

[henry]

good morning gentlebreeze . . . you bring up an interesting point . . . will the fbi get 1st crack at interviewing/interrogating cesar when caught . . . or will it be ocsd personnel . . . or will it be the mc?

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Chicky [*]

Henry, I keep going to the fact Cesar does not have to talk with anyone and I have my doubts he will. He will certainly have an attorney.

JMO [/*]

He already has one or more attorneys, doesn't he?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by henry [*]good morning gentlebreeze . . . you bring up an interesting point . . . will the fbi get 1st crack at interviewing/interrogating cesar when caught . . . or will it be ocsd personnel . . . or will it be the mc? [/*]

The OCSD will have first dibs, Henry. They are the lead agency in this case. The other agencies will assist if they ask them to do so. I think the MC will stand down when he is first brought back and may or may not bring charges later after the State trial.

imoo

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Chicky [*]

I will continue to go by CS answer regarding Christina. If they had probable cause she would be charged. They don't have probable cause she was involved, and I doubt they will have any in the future. Straight forward answer from CS is how I see it.

JMO [/*]

Hey Chicky, I agree. You know that. LOL. Good morning all!

Interesting post earlier by Cryme.....said that RS couldn't say much because maybe "the enemy" (Christina) was reading here or posting.

So regardless of what is said about Christina by RS, it's going to be spun, IMO.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Chicky [*]

Yes, he has, but he may change or get another attorney regarding these charges.
He has been assigned a public defender attorney who does specialize in this type of case if I am not mistaken.

All I am saying is once in custody, he will make a decision on an attorney who will be defending him in this criminal case and no one will be able to interrogate him without him agreeing to it.

I am also just saying, I doubt he will.

JMO [/*]

ITA, unless he accepts a plea deal. IMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by SavannahStar [*]

Hey Chicky, I agree. You know that. LOL. Good morning all!

Interesting post earlier by Cryme.....said that RS couldn't say much because maybe "the enemy" (Christina) was reading here or posting.

So regardless of what is said about Christina by RS, it's going to be spun, IMO. [/*]

Hey SS, I'm suffering from brain fog, but RS didn't characterize Ctina as "the enemy" did he?

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by bkwits [*]

Hey SS, I'm suffering from brain fog, but RS didn't characterize Ctina as "the enemy" did he? [/*]

No, I'm sorry if I gave that impression. That came from a post by Oregongal and followed up by a post by Cryme....on last night's thread.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by bkwits [*]

He already has one or more attorneys, doesn't he? [/*]

I would imagine when he is returned he will have one lead attorney who specializes in serious murder cases such as this one.

What some people may not know is a DA or ADA's in his office talks with the defendant's attorney many times.

If his attorney thinks his client knows anything that may benefit his client he would be remiss if he did not make the DA aware of it.

imoo

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze [*]

I would imagine when he is returned he will have one lead attorney who specializes in serious murder cases such as this one.

What some people may not know is a DA or ADA's in his office talks with the defendant's attorney many times.

If his attorney thinks his client knows anything that may benefit his client he would be remiss if he did not make the DA aware of it.

imoo [/*]

Absolutely GB. There is plenty of time and investigating to do in the quest for an accomplice IMHO.

Rick Sutherland would be remiss too if he claimed anyone innocent at this time and I think that's why we have never heard him say so IMO.

Housekeeping please.

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by henry [*]good morning gentlebreeze . . . you bring up an interesting point . . . will the fbi get 1st crack at interviewing/interrogating cesar when caught . . . or will it be ocsd personnel . . . or will it be the mc? [/*]

Remember when D. A. Dewey Hudson said this when he learned that Wally Paramore was assigned as Laurean's provisional counsel?

"No one in my office has ever seen anything like this," he said. "All indications are that (Laurean) has already retained three lawyers, so why do they feel they feel compelled to spend taxpayer money for someone who has not asked them for help ... who has not been arrested and not had a first appearance."

Paramore said there was nothing unusual about his being preliminarily assigned to be a capital defender.

Here's an article following up with D.A. Hudson meeting with Atty. Paramore:

Hudson said he had spoken to Paramore on Tuesday, and Paramore did not tell him it was usual practice. He said Paramore gave him the impression the move was highly unusual.

Hudson said he feels one of the reasons this has been done is to prevent authorities from interrogating Laurean once he is apprehended.

http://www.enctoday.com/articles/cou...al_hurley.html

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Chicky [*]

What the defendant's attorney says to the DA is only what his client allows. There is an attorney client privilege.

JMO [/*]

Right, but what's to prevent CL voluntarily spilling his guts when he is first apprehended (please God).

[CANDYKISSES]

I believe Cesar himself knows not to talk until his lawyer is present and identified by this time. JMO tho.

I don't in any way take it to mean his attorney will not be talking with LLE. JMO tho.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Chicky [*]


Thanks Lynn, that is exactly what I was trying to say.

I really have my doubts anyone will be interrogating CL.

JMO [/*]

ITA, but I wonder if Mexican authorities arrest him, if they will offer something similar to Miranda, and if not will what CL says, if anything, will be told to US LE. I also wonder if Mexican LE will question him.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES [*]

Absolutely GB. There is plenty of time and investigating to do in the quest for an accomplice IMHO.

Rick Sutherland would be remiss too if he claimed anyone innocent at this time and I think that's why we have never heard him say so IMO.

Housekeeping please. [/*]

Oops Candy! I think I need a housemaid. lol

BRB!

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny [*]

Remember when D. A. Dewey Hudson said this when he learned that Wally Paramore was assigned as Laurean's provisional counsel?

"No one in my office has ever seen anything like this," he said. "All indications are that (Laurean) has already retained three lawyers, so why do they feel they feel compelled to spend taxpayer money for someone who has not asked them for help ... who has not been arrested and not had a first appearance."

Paramore said there was nothing unusual about his being preliminarily assigned to be a capital defender.

Here's an article following up with D.A. Hudson meeting with Atty. Paramore:

Hudson said he had spoken to Paramore on Tuesday, and Paramore did not tell him it was usual practice. He said Paramore gave him the impression the move was highly unusual.

Hudson said he feels one of the reasons this has been done is to prevent authorities from interrogating Laurean once he is apprehended.

http://www.enctoday.com/articles/cou...al_hurley.html [/*]

Thanks Lynn.

Yes Hudson "feels" but he does not know. I thought the lawyer spoke out and said it is not unusual and he has done this about three times in one week before. Maybe it wasn't Paramore but another lawyer that does this same kind of work. There was a link here to it at one time.

imoo

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Chicky [*]


Even if something like that happens, which I doubt, as I don't think a Supreme Court ruling in our country regarding miranda rights would be utilized by mexico, nothing from that would be allowed in our courts.
I also doubt CL will talk.

JMO [/*]

I also doubt that CL talks voluntarily to anyone. He is one cool character, it seems. I was just wishful thinking. JMO

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze [*]

Thanks Lynn.

Yes Hudson "feels" but he does not know. I thought the lawyer spoke out and said it is not unusual and he has done this about three times in one week before. Maybe it wasn't Paramore but another lawyer that does this same kind of work. There was a link here to it at one time.

imoo [/*]

It wasn't Paramore who spoke but Bob Hurley from the Idigent Defense Services who assigned Wally Paramore to represent CAL.

The article is here: http://www.jdnews.com/articles/couns...al_hurley.html

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze [*]

Thanks Lynn.

Yes Hudson "feels" but he does not know. I thought the lawyer spoke out and said it is not unusual and he has done this about three times in one week before. Maybe it wasn't Paramore but another lawyer that does this same kind of work. There was a link here to it at one time.

imoo [/*]

I remember that as well and believe that when Christina and Cesar are back on the same soil we are going to see some fireworks IMO.

This time has afforded the authorities the ability to thoroughly check things out and don't forget each time she has been questioned as a cooperating witness, the interview is placed in the file. In the end, all those interviews will be compared to the stories that came out in the beginning and the stories that are being told in the end IMO.

In the Nelson trial, their cooperating witness had seven different accounts before all was said and done. They would call her back in as more information became available, and she was a cop too. I believe she moved to a plea deal the week of trial IIRC. JMO tho.

I can see something like this on the horizon for Christina and Cesar especially given the remark that came out about feeling like he couldn't have done all that in such a short time.

Patience is a true virtue IMHO. Ilook forward to his capture and return to NC.

ALL JMO.

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze [*]

~snip
Doesn't look like many are on this board today. Maybe they are out enjoying the weather if it is nice where they are. [/*]

I'm here, and have been since beginning of thread. Need to do a few things today so will be in and out..............beautiful day here!

The provisional warrant authorizes Mexican police to follow leads and to arrest the 21-year-old Laurean --

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/28/...iew#cnnSTCText

I don't think an arrest automatically means CL goes anywhere just where the battle to extradite him begins. He has Mexican citizenship too and I expect a prolonged hearing on extradition.

IMO, it'll require much more to extradite him than it took to get a GJ to indict him.

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by Chicky [*]

I tend to agree with you on this. We know he can waive extradition and be brought right back, but he just may not do that.

This is a good area for research. What happens when he is placed in the jail there? We know the US has already taken the DP off the table.

CL is a Mexican citizen in Mexico's eyes, just not in ours.

Anyway, how do the Mexican courts work in this regard? Do they have attorneys that are assigned to indigent prisoners like us? Or does he need a lot of money to fight extradition?

I wonder if he has grounds to fight extradition. He doesn't have the DP as grounds now.

I am not a good researcher at all.

Just saying........

JMO [/*]

The possibility that Laurean may still retain his Mexican citizenship might complicate extradition though, said Joseph Gutheinz, a criminal defense attorney who teaches criminal law at a college in Alvin, Texas.

(SNIP)

Even if Laurean did renounce his citizenship, the Mexican government still most likely would consider him a national, Gutheinz said.

"Mexico interprets nationality liberally to include those with dual citizenship and even those who have a Hispanic surname," he said, adding that Mexican authorities may choose to keep Laurean and try him there for Lauterbach's death.

Summerlin said the goal right now is to locate Laurean, but once that happens, the U.S. government wants to see him returned to stand trial in Onslow County.

http://www.enctoday.com/news/laurean...exico_fbi.html

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo [*]

It wasn't Paramore who spoke but Bob Hurley from the Indigent Defense Services who assigned Wally Paramore to represent CAL.

The article is here: http://www.jdnews.com/articles/couns...al_hurley.html [/*]

Thank you, nuttin!

I knew I had remembered reading that.

Hope you are having a great day!

imoo

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Chicky [*]


Thanks Lynn,

I do remember discussion on if Mexico would keep him and try him there. That is a rare thing and I think that would only be used for someone extremely important to Mexico like maybe the president of Mexico or something like that. I disregarded them doing that with CL only because he is not important to them for any reason and the money involved with that country in doing a trial. Another words, they don't want him imo.

Perhaps he could use that in fighting extradition though.

JMO [/*]

Oh, I think Mexico will extradite CL if he is arrested there, but it make take a long time. IMO

[bkwits]

[quote]Originally posted by Chicky [*]


Well, like I said in a previous post here, I think it will depend on money. Does Mexico give anyone arrested attorneys if they are indigent like our country or do they have to pay for an attorney? I have noticed that people who have money makes extradition take way longer. Does CL's family, if an attorney has to be paid there, want to do that or save the money for a high power attorney in the US?

Even if extradition is challenged, it will be lost sooner or later, so is it worth it?

Do you follow what I mean? If Mexico does give them an attorney, how good is the attorney for free, and how long would that take?

JMO [/*][/QUOTE

Chicky, I found this case while looking for another. This guy Garcia-Gomez was an illegal alien who shot a cop in Denver. He fled to Mexico. He was extradited and brought back to Denver for trial within a few months. This quote was rather interesting because of what we had discussed.

"It is expected that the defense will argue that Gomez-Garcia's confession in Mexico was made under duress and should not be considered valid."

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...21/detail.html

[bkwits]

[quote]Originally posted by bkwits [*]

Originally posted by Chicky [*]


Well, like I said in a previous post here, I think it will depend on money. Does Mexico give anyone arrested attorneys if they are indigent like our country or do they have to pay for an attorney? I have noticed that people who have money makes extradition take way longer. Does CL's family, if an attorney has to be paid there, want to do that or save the money for a high power attorney in the US?

Even if extradition is challenged, it will be lost sooner or later, so is it worth it?

Do you follow what I mean? If Mexico does give them an attorney, how good is the attorney for free, and how long would that take?

JMO [/*][/QUOTE

Chicky, I found this case while looking for another. This guy Garcia-Gomez was an illegal alien who shot a cop in Denver. He fled to Mexico. He was extradited and brought back to Denver for trial within a few months. This quote was rather interesting because of what we had discussed.

"It is expected that the defense will argue that Gomez-Garcia's confession in Mexico was made under duress and should not be considered valid."

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...21/detail.html [/*]

BTW The accused was tried in Sept 06 and got 80 years.

[gaelicpeas]

[quote]Originally posted by bkwits [*]

Originally posted by Chicky [*]


Well, like I said in a previous post here, I think it will depend on money. Does Mexico give anyone arrested attorneys if they are indigent like our country or do they have to pay for an attorney? I have noticed that people who have money makes extradition take way longer. Does CL's family, if an attorney has to be paid there, want to do that or save the money for a high power attorney in the US?

Even if extradition is challenged, it will be lost sooner or later, so is it worth it?

Do you follow what I mean? If Mexico does give them an attorney, how good is the attorney for free, and how long would that take?

JMO [/*][/QUOTE

Chicky, I found this case while looking for another. This guy Garcia-Gomez was an illegal alien who shot a cop in Denver. He fled to Mexico. He was extradited and brought back to Denver for trial within a few months. This quote was rather interesting because of what we had discussed.

"It is expected that the defense will argue that Gomez-Garcia's confession in Mexico was made under duress and should not be considered valid."

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...21/detail.html [/*]

That guy was convicted and sentenced to 80 years in prison, so hopefully if CL is found in Mexico and confesses, it won't pass muster in his trial.

Also, that guy's grandmother turned him in to Mexican authorities. The reward was $100,000 - which is why it is so important IMO that the reward for CL's capture be increased. Unfortunately, the grandmother did not get the reward - which I think sets a horrible precedent for people in Mexico turning in their own relatives. I could see CL's family there saying "Why should I turn him in - we won't get the reward".

JMO

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas [*]
That guy was convicted and sentenced to 80 years in prison, so hopefully if CL is found in Mexico and confesses, it won't pass muster in his trial.
[/*]

Just to clarify my own post - I meant that a confession in Mexico under duress as with that other case would hopefully not be a credible defense by CL's lawyers here at his trial.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas [*]

That guy was convicted and sentenced to 80 years in prison, so hopefully if CL is found in Mexico and confesses, it won't pass muster in his trial.

Also, that guy's grandmother turned him in to Mexican authorities. The reward was $100,000 - which is why it is so important IMO that the reward for CL's capture be increased. Unfortunately, the grandmother did not get the reward - which I think sets a horrible precedent for people in Mexico turning in their own relatives. I could see ML's family there saying "Why should I turn him in - we won't get the reward".

JMO [/*]

Thanks gp, I wasn't sure how he was caught. You meant to say CL's family, didn't you?

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by bkwits [*]

Thanks gp, I wasn't sure how he was caught. You meant to say CL's family, didn't you? [/*]

lol, yes - I just edited it....

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Chicky [*]Does anyone know why the grandmother didn't get the $100,000 reward? I wonder why the guy only got 80 years and I wonder if he is eligible to get a parole?

I sure hope CL does get LWOP. [/*]

Crimestoppers paid about 50K to others who turned in tips. Grandma didn't get anything from Crimestoppers because she didn't call them with a tip. I don't know why LE didn't give her something.


"Gomez-Garcia was convicted last month of shooting and killing Detective Donnie Young in May of 2005 after he was kicked out of a party. He was found guilty on the charge of second-degree murder.

"Gomez-Garcia was also convicted of attempted second-degree murder for shooting Young's partner Jack Bishop."

http://archive.9news.com/acm_news.as...7-c589c01ca7bf

The article goes on to state that LE had to waive First Degree charges to get him extradited. He got the maximu of 48 years for 2nd degree murder, and 32 for attempted murder.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Chicky [*]Does anyone know why the grandmother didn't get the $100,000 reward? I wonder why the guy only got 80 years and I wonder if he is eligible to get a parole?

I sure hope CL does get LWOP. [/*]

I believe it was because she went to Mexican authorities instead of calling Crimestoppers...

At CL's age, even 60-70 years would be enough to keep him in prison til he died, IMO. If we have trouble extraditing him (assuming he is found), the DA could take LWOP off the table and give him enough years to make sure he never gets out.