Wednesday - 03-05-08 - a.m.

[henry]

good morning - yes, it's day 55 and yes, i continue to put a.m. on the thread heading in the hopes that today will be the day cesar's captured . . . didn't think it would get so much use for c/w shutdowns (which i've stopped counting)

i have a whole long list of memorable/noteworthy posts from last nite's discussion . . . IMO it would be worthwhile to read all the pages.

[henry]

okay . . . another small question . . . if a military person, while on base, calls 911 . . . what will happen?

[crymeariver2006]

I would think that the call would be answered by MP's, but I don't know that for a fact.

Maybe they use a different # than 911?

[henry]

hah . . . it's great (not really ) talking to myself in the early morning hours. a line from nelkirk's really stuck out at me (among many - thank you) . . . here's the quote: "Why didn't she take responsibility for herself and make the reports? Is it because we as parents fail to prepare our children for the world cold hostile that lurks outside the warm loving home we have created for them?"

as to maria - i don't know - fear, harrassment imo. but the next sentence is the real wow and has always been, at least my dealings with teenagers, problems, parents . . . a real big issue in today's society (OT - a teenage girl in our area just was arrested for stabbing an acquaintance 'cause they called her "ugly")
IMO MOO

edit: . . . hi crymeariver! didn't see you typing - sorry! . . . and i think i forgot to refresh the page . . . woops!

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by henry [*]hah . . . it's great (not really ) talking to myself in the early morning hours. a line from nelkirk's really stuck out at me (among many - thank you) . . . here's the quote: "Why didn't she take responsibility for herself and make the reports? Is it because we as parents fail to prepare our children for the world cold hostile that lurks outside the warm loving home we have created for them?"

as to maria - i don't know - fear, harrassment imo. but the next sentence is the real wow and has always been, at least my dealings with teenagers, problems, parents . . . a real big issue in today's society (OT - a teenage girl in our area just was arrested for stabbing an acquaintance 'cause they called her "ugly")
IMO MOO

edit: . . . hi crymeariver! didn't see you typing - sorry! . . . and i think i forgot to refresh the page . . . woops! [/*]

Good Morning henry. Don't know what Mary did or did not teach Maria, but I do think there are some major problems in society and the way that children are being raised now. IMHO, We need to backpeddle and figure out where we went wrong.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by AJandTam [*]

Good Morning henry. Don't know what Mary did or did not teach Maria, but I do think there are some major problems in society and the way that children are being raised now. IMHO, We need to backpeddle and figure out where we went wrong. [/*]

Hey Tam good to see you!

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by SavannahStar [*]

Hey Tam good to see you! [/*]

Good Morning Savannah. Good to see you as well.

This stinking guy is hiding good, isn't he??

[henry]

Originally posted by AJandTam [*]

Good Morning henry. Don't know what Mary did or did not teach Maria, but I do think there are some major problems in society and the way that children are being raised now. IMHO, We need to backpeddle and figure out where we went wrong. [/*]

welcome back (marching band playing in the background) . . . i was thinking more along the lines of cesar & his mother !!!

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by henry [*]

welcome back (marching band playing in the background) . . . i was thinking more along the lines of cesar & his mother !!! [/*]

Ahhhhhh thanks henry.

You got a point. Something bad wrong w/Cesar.

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by AnnieBean [*]Well too late to edit the above, now that I am post-coffee I can be a little more clear- what i was saying was today there is no sanctity for human life anymore (disposeable women and kids, drive by shootings, gang stabbings, girls killing girls over BOYS (!)
AND no respect for the property of others as evidenced by busted out windows, graffiti laden cities and trains, people just dropping trash wherever they feel like it. Its such a different world and I don't mean a change for the better.

Good Morning All I hve to do is work 2 hrs today then go to a care plan meeting at the nursing home and I am home for the rest of the day. [/*]

You are right Annie. I don't really know if it is even possible to fix what is happening now. One generation can't fix the next if they themselves don't know what's right and what's wrong. Sad but true.

I am afraid to say my docket is clear today. The last time I said that, things did not go well.

Where is Sami?

[henry]

Originally posted by AJandTam [*]


You are right Annie. I don't really know if it is even possible to fix what is happening now. One generation can't fix the next if they themselves don't know what's right and what's wrong. Sad but true.

I am afraid to say my docket is clear today. The last time I said that, things did not go well.

Where is Sami? [/*]

hah . . . i was ready to do the today show imitation . . . where in the world is aj&t . . . now it can be sami!

i'm hoping that today's generation will wake up (all caps) & see what's happening . . . i know i send my kids all kinds of emails . . . about what can happen & does happen.

i just hope xtina's child will be raised to know right from wrong . . . jmo

Originally posted by henry [*]hah . . . it's great (not really ) talking to myself in the early morning hours. a line from nelkirk's really stuck out at me (among many - thank you) . . . here's the quote: "Why didn't she take responsibility for herself and make the reports? Is it because we as parents fail to prepare our children for the world cold hostile that lurks outside the warm loving home we have created for them?"

as to maria - i don't know - fear, harrassment imo. but the next sentence is the real wow and has always been, at least my dealings with teenagers, problems, parents . . . a real big issue in today's society (OT - a teenage girl in our area just was arrested for stabbing an acquaintance 'cause they called her "ugly")
IMO MOO

edit: . . . hi crymeariver! didn't see you typing - sorry! . . . and i think i forgot to refresh the page . . . woops! [/*]

LOL, oh how easy it seems to blame the victim and then the parents who raised her. How about blaming the people who made the judgement that cesar laurean wasn't a threat to Maria and also that he wasn't a flight risk, that would be the marines.

I agree with those saying this entire incident has the unpleasant aroma of a huge cover up. IMO.

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by henry [*]

hah . . . i was ready to do the today show imitation . . . where in the world is aj&t . . . now it can be sami!

i'm hoping that today's generation will wake up (all caps) & see what's happening . . . i know i send my kids all kinds of emails . . . about what can happen & does happen.

i just hope xtina's child will be raised to know right from wrong . . . jmo [/*]

Hehee. you are the cutest. I miss Sami. Hope she turns up for her morning show appearance.

Yes, I try to be very real w/my children as well. I prefer not to send them into the world believing the world has thier back so to speak.

Originally posted by AJandTam [*]

Ahhhhhh thanks henry.

You got a point. Something bad wrong w/Cesar. [/*]

About time you rolled back in, missed you. Hope the
gang and you have completely recovered.

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert [*]

LOL, oh how easy it seems to blame the victim and then the parents who raised her. How about blaming the people who made the judgement that cesar laurean wasn't a threat to Maria and also that he wasn't a flight risk, that would be the marines.

I agree with those saying this entire incident has the unpleasant aroma of a huge cover up. IMO. [/*]

Reggie...Hugs girl.

I do respect your victims advocate status. I think you wonderful in your fight for victims. However, i'm not in total agreement w/you. Although, I do believe that he/she/they had no right to do to Maria what was done to her. I also think that everyone reguardless of who it is. Needs to be aware of how their own actions could lead to thier own demise. It would be absolutely awesome if people didn't kill each other but the reality is, they do. And some situations make you more likely to become a victim. Getting involved w/married people. Drugs, and other unsavory behavior. In this case, IF and I say IF she went to the home of this married couple. She was infact, setting herself up for big trouble. Some things in life you are better to avoid. I do believe we would be better off as a society if we were honest w/our children about what kind of trouble lurks in the darkness.

As for the LE and the Marines in this case. Yes, I think they failed to handle things right. So no disagreement there.

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert [*]

About time you rolled back in, missed you. Hope the
gang and you have completely recovered. [/*]

Thanks Reggie. We are all better and so far so good on the series of other mishaps that have been aggrivating the heck out of us. One more thing and I was going under the bed to hide, I tell ya.

[henry]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert [*]

LOL, oh how easy it seems to blame the victim and then the parents who raised her. How about blaming the people who made the judgement that cesar laurean wasn't a threat to Maria and also that he wasn't a flight risk, that would be the marines.

I agree with those saying this entire incident has the unpleasant aroma of a huge cover up. IMO. [/*]

good morning . . . hope you read further down the post line.

edit . . . and i don't think it's a LOL matter . . . jmo

[henry]

Originally posted by Chicky [*]Snipped:

"Getting involved w/married people."
_______________________________

I don't think it was Maria's responsibility to make sure before she was raped that her rapist was not married.

JMO [/*]

good morning chicky! don't think i've ever seen a snipped post without who it's from, IMO . . . can you let us know who said that & in what context? thanks.

edit AB . . . please do some cleaning today!

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by Chicky [*]Snipped:

"Getting involved w/married people."
_______________________________

I don't think it was Maria's responsibility to make sure before she was raped that her rapist was not married.

JMO [/*]

Chicky. I'm a bit behind. Last I heard, we didn't know the actual nature of the relationship. If Maria were the victim of a rape, then I couldn't agree w/you more. When I left off, we really didn't know what the deal was w/her and Cesar but the way it was looking. It looked like maybe they were involved in some type of affair and she went willingly to that residence on that fateful day. Depending on what the real truth is, you could very well be right.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by AJandTam [*]

Reggie...Hugs girl.

I do respect your victims advocate status. I think you wonderful in your fight for victims. However, i'm not in total agreement w/you. Although, I do believe that he/she/they had no right to do to Maria what was done to her. I also think that everyone reguardless of who it is. Needs to be aware of how their own actions could lead to thier own demise. It would be absolutely awesome if people didn't kill each other but the reality is, they do. And some situations make you more likely to become a victim. Getting involved w/married people. Drugs, and other unsavory behavior. In this case, IF and I say IF she went to the home of this married couple. She was infact, setting herself up for big trouble. Some things in life you are better to avoid. I do believe we would be better off as a society if we were honest w/our children about what kind of trouble lurks in the darkness.

As for the LE and the Marines in this case. Yes, I think they failed to handle things right. So no disagreement there. [/*]

Well said Tam, and it's really about a pro-active approach we as parents and mentors can take. What else is there left to do?

I was watching a clip on women lying on CBS yesterday and saw where some women don't like to admit their own mistakes and pain of the past to their children.

I was thinking "HELLO, do you want your children to suffer or do you want to help prevent that by empowering them with KNOWLEDGE?"

We have to get back to basics and personal responsibilty is KEY IMO.

JMO

I am glad to hear you are feeling better and that the family is on the mend.

Originally posted by AJandTam [*]

Ahhhhhh thanks henry.

You got a point. Something bad wrong w/Cesar. [/*]

Good morning Tam! Good to see you back.

Something bad / wrong with Cesar? Isn't that the understatement of the year lol? He sure doesn't have any respect for women what with his cheating, raping, murdering actions imo. I also can't help but think about little Gabriel who was more than likely his son. He didn't care about him either did he? Makes me wonder what life was like growing up in his home as a child. Ontop of that imo he is a coward on the run and a disgrace to the Marines.

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES [*]

Well said Tam, and it's really about a pro-active approach we as parents and mentors can take. What else is there left to do?

I was watching a clip on women lying on CBS yesterday and saw where some women don't like to admit their own mistakes and pain of the past to their children.

I was thinking "HELLO, do you want your children to suffer or do you want to help prevent that by empowering them with KNOWLEDGE?"

We have to get back to basics and personal responsibilty is KEY IMO.

JMO

I am glad to hear you are feeling better and that the family is on the mend. [/*]

Candy. Thank you. I am a realist and a very firm believer in personal responsiblity for ones actions, and definately teach my children to be as well. We have to use good judgement ourselves if we don't want to walk into trouble. In a perfect world we could walk down any street in the world at any time of the day and be safe. But the reality is. You can't just have the attitude that you have the right to walk down that street and if anything happens to you. Well it's the other guys fault. Unfortunately who's fault it really is, doesn't help you much if you are dead. The reality is, sometimes our own bad judgement gets us into trouble.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Chicky [*]Snipped from AJandTam's post :

"Getting involved w/married people."
_______________________________

I don't think it was Maria's responsibility to make sure before she was raped that her rapist was not married.

JMO [/*]

Mornin'

It's the old women blaming/hating women thing. Some would rather blame Maria, her mom, Christina, rather than real criminal who raped, murdered, coldly buried the bodies, desecrated them, tried to clean up, then ran like the coward he is. But he is kind of cute, isn't he.

[caejde]

Originally posted by bkwits [*]

Mornin'

It's the old women blaming/hating women thing. Some would rather blame Maria, her mom, Christina, rather than real criminal who raped, murdered, coldly buried the bodies, desecrated them, tried to clean up, then ran like the coward he is. But he is kind of cute, isn't he. [/*]

I have said plenty of times that the only person to blame is Cesar and anyone else that helped him with the murder, cleanup, escape, hiding. He is the only one to blame.

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom [*]


Good morning Tam! Good to see you back.

Something bad / wrong with Cesar? Isn't that the understatement of the year lol? He sure doesn't have any respect for women what with his cheating, raping, murdering actions imo. I also can't help but think about little Gabriel who was more than likely his son. He didn't care about him either did he? Makes me wonder what life was like growing up in his home as a child. Ontop of that imo he is a coward on the run and a disgrace to the Marines. [/*]

Thank you Sherlock. Nice to see you as well.

Nope, Cesar is all about Cesar. What's sad is that no one can find him before he racks up yet another victim. This is the type of person who is obviously a threat to others. It's not just about justice for Maria. It's about saving someone else from becoming a victim too. He's evil.

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by Chicky [*]

No, none of us know for sure if there was a rape. Just like none of us know there wasn't a rape.

Maria made a rape allegation against CL.
I believe her. I also believe there was never an "affair" between them.

JMO [/*]

I really can't argue w/ya either way Chicky. I really don't know what the truth is. To me it seems like the real truth could be either way. At least that's how it seems w/what information we have at this point.

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by Chicky [*]

By the way, welcome back.

I find any posts about Maria or her family's responsibility offensive at this point. Actually, I would find it offensive at any point given Maria and Gabriel's death at the hands of CL.

JMO [/*]

Thank you Chicky. Sorry if my opinion is offensive. It's just my perspective on life and becoming a victim. It does not necessarrily reflect what happened in this case, as i'm speaking in general because I do not know what happened in this case. If that makes any sense at all.

[henry]

Originally posted by Chicky [*]

By the way, welcome back.

I find any posts about Maria or her family's responsibility offensive at this point. Actually, I would find it offensive at any point given Maria and Gabriel's death at the hands of CL.

JMO [/*]

and, if i notice/read correctly, the posts were not in the "blame" mode until a poster used that term . . . but rather from a different perspective. IMO

I see Lynn posted on the links page that the reward for CL is now over $45,000.00 now. This is excellent news!

Lynn Gweeny
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2005
Location:
Posts: 3587
The total reward for Laurean's capture from all sources is up to $45,742

Onslow County Sheriff Ed Brown in February asking for reward funds in the Laurean case, Effron said. The reward for Laurean's capture is steadily climbing - through both official and unofficial sources:

The FBI is offering $25,000 ... Crime Stoppers of Onslow County-Camp Lejeune has offered to pay up to $2,500 ... Brown has pledged $500 out of his own pocket ... Pledges that have come into the Sheriff's Department total $5,000 ... Rewardpost.com is offering $7,742

http://www.jdnews.com/news/laurean_...eward_f06e.html

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by AJandTam [*]

Candy. Thank you. I am a realist and a very firm believer in personal responsiblity for ones actions, and definately teach my children to be as well. We have to use good judgement ourselves if we don't want to walk into trouble. In a perfect world we could walk down any street in the world at any time of the day and be safe. But the reality is. You can't just have the attitude that you have the right to walk down that street and if anything happens to you. Well it's the other guys fault. Unfortunately who's fault it really is, doesn't help you much if you are dead. The reality is, sometimes our own bad judgement gets us into trouble. [/*]

Sadly, you are correct Tam. We no longer live in a society where life is good and you are free to enjoy life to the fullest from my POV. We have to be on guard and practice personal safety in all actions we take now, and maybe it was really that way from the start. I'm glad to know there are others practicing pro-active personal responsibility with their children as well.

You still can't be totally safe, but not tempting fate is a step in the right direction.

I'm glad you aren't afraid to speak your mind because until we start talking about it, this remains a source of contention IMO.

There is a significant difference between blaming the victim and looking at the case as a whole to determine where it went wrong and how this tragedy came to be from my POV. Again, this is where victimology is an up and coming tool for all of us.

To deny that any of the people involved in this tragedy didn't have a role is denying the truth IMO. The only one who truly had no role was the unborn child who never took a breath.

Time will tell, but I am anxiously awaiting the release of more information as well as the capture of Cesar Laurean.

JMO.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by caejde [*]

I have said plenty of times that the only person to blame is Cesar and anyone else that helped him with the murder, cleanup, escape, hiding. He is the only one to blame. [/*]

That's not good enough caejde, and truly I am sorry there is a concentrated effort to deny anything that could have contributed to this tragedy and anyone who speaks out.

I feel you are a pretty fair minded poster who comes with an open mind.

JMO.

IF indeed Cesar is the killer in this case, then he needs to face Lady Justice and deal with his consequences, because no matter what, MURDER is never the answer.

[caejde]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES [*]

That's not good enough caejde, and truly I am sorry there is a concentrated effort to deny anything that could have contributed to this tragedy and anyone who speaks out.

I feel you are a pretty fair minded poster who comes with an open mind.

JMO.

IF indeed Cesar is the killer in this case, then he needs to face Lady Justice and deal with his consequences, because no matter what, MURDER is never the answer. [/*]

Well, I just don't see why people finger point and say "If the Marines would have done this, Maria wouldn't have died." It's if this and if that. There are so many "ifs" in this case and so many unknowns--at least to us. My only point is that regardless of who killed Maria and her baby, that murderer had a decision to make and whoever did it chose the easy way out. I think the killer could be Cesar or Christina or both.

[henry]

[quote]Originally posted by Regina.Lampert [*]
LOL, oh how easy it seems to blame the victim and then the parents who raised her.

snip for shortness


chicky . . . this is what i'm referring to . . . nothing prior was said blaming the victim . . . call me confused also. JMO

Originally posted by AJandTam [*]

Chicky. I'm a bit behind. Last I heard, we didn't know the actual nature of the relationship. If Maria were the victim of a rape, then I couldn't agree w/you more. When I left off, we really didn't know what the deal was w/her and Cesar but the way it was looking. It looked like maybe they were involved in some type of affair and she went willingly to that residence on that fateful day. Depending on what the real truth is, you could very well be right. [/*]

I certainly understand what you are saying about personal responsibility Tam and respect that view. I am just very tired of those pointing to Maria and now her parents, as having any responsibility for her murder. That responsibility lies with the stellar marine, cesar laurean.

Until such a time as substantiated facts actually show that Maria and her family had a part in her murder, I am offended by the thought, no matter how subtle the insinuation is, that they did.

You do know that according to friends of Maria iirc, she did not know laurean was married. When she learned of that fact I think she ended the relationship. That, imo, is when laurean refused to take no for an answer. I believe Maria.

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES [*]

Sadly, you are correct Tam. We no longer live in a society where life is good and you are free to enjoy life to the fullest from my POV. We have to be on guard and practice personal safety in all actions we take now, and maybe it was really that way from the start. I'm glad to know there are others practicing pro-active personal responsibility with their children as well.

You still can't be totally safe, but not tempting fate is a step in the right direction.

I'm glad you aren't afraid to speak your mind because until we start talking about it, this remains a source of contention IMO.

There is a significant difference between blaming the victim and looking at the case as a whole to determine where it went wrong and how this tragedy came to be from my POV. Again, this is where victimology is an up and coming tool for all of us.

To deny that any of the people involved in this tragedy didn't have a role is denying the truth IMO. The only one who truly had no role was the unborn child who never took a breath.

Time will tell, but I am anxiously awaiting the release of more information as well as the capture of Cesar Laurean.

JMO. [/*]

Candy. I think you and I are on the same page w/this. I don't always think that we are going in the right direction in personal responsiblity and I do often find myself at odds w/others on this issue. In my way of thinking. If I am on someone elses property and I fall in a hole and break my leg. I"m not the type of person who would blame the home owner and sue. IMHO, it's my fault that I broke my leg cause I was the one not watching where I was going. Like it or not. We can't just do what we want to do and not have any consequences. Life just doesn't work like that. Personally, I think the 10 commandments are genius. It's true reguardless of what your religious beliefs are. The things listed do infact, bring the wrath upon you if you violate them.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by caejde [*]

Well, I just don't see why people finger point and say "If the Marines would have done this, Maria wouldn't have died." It's if this and if that. There are so many "ifs" in this case and so many unknowns--at least to us. My only point is that regardless of who killed Maria and her baby, that murderer had a decision to make and whoever did it chose the easy way out. I think the killer could be Cesar or Christina or both. [/*]

Yes Caejde, I understand your point and agree. I am not an advocate of just blaming deep pockets and never have been.

IF I fail to tell the authorities I am afraid of someone and I don't have a cohesive story as to why, how is it their fault?

I just don't understand that.

JMO.

Originally posted by henry [*]

good morning . . . hope you read further down the post line.

edit . . . and i don't think it's a LOL matter . . . jmo [/*]

I don't either, the LOL was in reference to the thought posted that Maria and her parents were responsible in some way for her murder. IMO.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by AJandTam [*]

Candy. I think you and I are on the same page w/this. I don't always think that we are going in the right direction in personal responsiblity and I do often find myself at odds w/others on this issue. In my way of thinking. If I am on someone elses property and I fall in a hole and break my leg. I"m not the type of person who would blame the home owner and sue. IMHO, it's my fault that I broke my leg cause I was the one not watching where I was going. Like it or not. We can't just do what we want to do and not have any consequences. Life just doesn't work like that. Personally, I think the 10 commandments are genius. It's true reguardless of what your religious beliefs are. The things listed do infact, bring the wrath upon you if you violate them. [/*]

ITA there Tam, and just above I said similar about looking for someone to blame.

I can't hold the authorities accountable for not being pro-active when they appear to have been given answers that say she was not afraid, was not coerced, was not forced......

Where is their responsibility in this? IF I see anything given what we know at this point, I might say they should have brought closure to the rape allegations. IOW, if there wasn't enough to bring charges, they could have put a stop to it and I am not so sure that wasn't in the works anyway GIVEN that we know NCIS confirmed Maria was possibly facing a discharge.

JMO

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert [*]

I certainly understand what you are saying about personal responsibility Tam and respect that view. I am just very tired of those pointing to Maria and now her parents, as having any responsibility for her murder. That responsibility lies with the stellar marine, cesar laurean.

Until such a time as substantiated facts actually show that Maria and her family had a part in her murder, I am offended by the thought, no matter how subtle the insinuation is, that they did.

You do know that according to friends of Maria iirc, she did not know laurean was married. When she learned of that fact I think she ended the relationship. That, imo, is when laurean refused to take no for an answer. I believe Maria. [/*]

You know Reggie. IMHO, I think it's a bit unfair that the nature of this relationship has been left so up in the air. I think people are speculating both ways as they really don't know what was going on. I think that's fair, that both sides get to make thier arguments. No matter what others are speculating about. It has no impact on what the real truth is. The real truth will be what it is no matter what we think. JMO.

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES [*]

ITA there Tam, and just above I said similar about looking for someone to blame.

I can't hold the authorities accountable for not being pro-active when they appear to have been given answers that say she was not afraid, was not coerced, was not forced......

Where is their responsibility in this? IF I see anything given what we know at this point, I might say they should have brought closure to the rape allegations. IOW, if there wasn't enough to bring charges, they could have put a stop to it and I am not so sure that wasn't in the works anyway GIVEN that we know NCIS confirmed Maria was possibly facing a discharge.

JMO [/*]

I am a bit off w/you on that one, as I think the investigation into her disappearance could have been much better than it was. As for the rape. I lean toward agreeing w/you on that one. I'm not sure that a case could have been made either.