Feb 2008 Patty Fornicola Thread

[Politigal]

read quickly folks...they vanish or get locked

IMO, I still believe that Patty Fornicola was not truly investigated as a suspect in this case. I believe that some things were done, that the public isn't aware of, but still...not enough.

She was the last person to truly have seen Ray Gricar, after he left work that Thursday evening.

She was the provider of all the details that led police to believe he possibly just walked away.

She was Darrell Zaccagni's buddy from years prior, and he pitied her, as evidenced by his press conference about the mystery woman. And from other sources, he made sure she got the Mini Cooper back quickly.

There was never a thorough search or forensic investigation at her home. And, police waited 3 months before administering a polygraph.

She was the one who went upstairs to the closet to fetch the laptop, and told police it wasn't there. And per Zaccagni, the laptop case was never even fingerprinted.

She has also used laptop computers for several years, and is familiar with their operation & parts IMO.

She is also familiar with Lewisburg and the Street of Shops, as she had been there before with Ray Gricar.

And, the evening Gricar didn't come home, to *my* knowledge, she didn't call his best friend - asst DA Stephen Sloane, or any of RG's family members, just to see if they had spoken - instead, she phoned *her* brother.

No one can say where she was from Thursday night til she went to work the next day. And, there are really no reports available to the public about her work day on Friday - what time she left for lunch, etc. There are also no reports available to the public about her visit to a gym after work - what time she arrived or left, or who saw her there. We also have no idea of her whereabouts after the gym, or where she phoned her brother from, or her whereabouts after the call to her brother, til police arrived Saturday morning.

And per other sources, she provided an article to police, to be used for the scent dogs at Lewisburg. And we have no idea if that article truly belonged to Gricar.


IMO, she simply cannot be eliminated as a suspect in his disappearance - no way - no how.

~JMHO~

[Cinderella]

Pgal have we been told what item the dog or dogs were scented with? Thanks for starting this thread. I really want to give PF the benefit of the doubt, but there are some things that I really don't understand about published news paper reports of what she said. I am confused over it and if she could clear up some things then I would feel better and others would feel better. I got to get some things together and then I will post what is disturbing me.

[Cinderella]

http://www.realcities.com/mld/centre...list&pageNo=38

Here is an oldie question from the CDT Forum

Q I'm a former central PA resident and went to Penn State. Your coverage has been excellent. Two questions: 1. Other than Ms. Fornicola, who was the last person known to have seen Mr. Gricar (before the disappearance)? 2. Have you ever produced a timeline of these events.
J. J., Phila, PA 11/17/05

A The answer to your first question: Police don't know who, other than Patty Fornicola, was the last to see him. Bellefonte police Officer Darrel Zaccagni said they never looked into that. Since Patty Fornicola "passed" the lie detector test earlier this year — part of which asked her if she had anything to do with Gricar's disappearance or knew where he was — they don't think it was important to look into it now. To answer your second question, yes, we have produced a timeline of events that has run with two feature stories. Copy and paste this link into your browser to see it: http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centr...r/13208445.htm
Erin Nissley 11/25/05

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Politigal [*]read quickly folks...they vanish or get locked


She was the last person to truly have seen Ray Gricar, after he left work that Thursday evening.

False, as numerous witnesses saw him in Lewisburg, and possibly Fenton and Grine.

She was the provider of all the details that led police to believe he possibly just walked away.

False again. If she thought on 4/15/05 he walked away, why call LE; why accurately report the location of the call.

She was Darrell Zaccagni's buddy from years prior, and he pitied her, as evidenced by his press conference about the mystery woman. And from other sources, he made sure she got the Mini Cooper back quickly.

False again. Not buddies. MW was out well before the first year date and LE tried to find her. Also false on the return.

There was never a thorough search or forensic investigation at her home. And, police waited 3 months before administering a polygraph.

Date of polygraph has no bearing on the accuracy; you can't cram for one. House was searched and nothing found.

She was the one who went upstairs to the closet to fetch the laptop, and told police it wasn't there. And per Zaccagni, the laptop case was never even fingerprinted.

LE was present and requested her to get it. BTW, who told LE that the laptop existed? PEF.

She has also used laptop computers for several years, and is familiar with their operation & parts IMO.

And? You use a computer; so do I. Her job involved no great computer skills.

She is also familiar with Lewisburg and the Street of Shops, as she had been there before with Ray Gricar.

Ah, possibly excepting the out of town members of the Gricar family, so was everyone else.

And, the evening Gricar didn't come home, to *my* knowledge, she didn't call his best friend - asst DA Stephen Sloane, or any of RG's family members, just to see if they had spoken - instead, she phoned *her* brother.

Did make multiple calls to RFG's cellphone. Forgive me, but if I want to reach someone, I generally call their phone/cell phone. Called her brother for a male perspective.

No one can say where she was from Thursday night til she went to work the next day.

Again, most of the people in this case can't say where they were while they were asleep. I doubt if you could.

And per other sources, she provided an article to police, to be used for the scent dogs at Lewisburg. And we have no idea if that article truly belonged to Gricar.

My sources indicate something quite different.

IMO, she simply cannot be eliminated as a suspect in his disappearance - no way - no how.

If you ignore the at least five witnesses that saw RFG in Lewisburg after noon on 4/15/05, the two possible sightings in Bellefonte at 3:00 PM, and the fact that his scent was in Lewisburg, you can't. In other words, if you decide to totally ignore the evidence you can say that. Most people are not you.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cinderella [*]http://www.realcities.com/mld/centre...list&pageNo=38

Here is an oldie question from the CDT Forum

Q I'm a former central PA resident and went to Penn State. Your coverage has been excellent. Two questions: 1. Other than Ms. Fornicola, who was the last person known to have seen Mr. Gricar (before the disappearance)? 2. Have you ever produced a timeline of these events.
J. J., Phila, PA 11/17/05

A The answer to your first question: Police don't know who, other than Patty Fornicola, was the last to see him. Bellefonte police Officer Darrel Zaccagni said they never looked into that. Since Patty Fornicola "passed" the lie detector test earlier this year — part of which asked her if she had anything to do with Gricar's disappearance or knew where he was — they don't think it was important to look into it now. To answer your second question, yes, we have produced a timeline of events that has run with two feature stories. Copy and paste this link into your browser to see it: http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centr...r/13208445.htm
Erin Nissley 11/25/05 [/*]

I think the word is "before," but thank you showing that I was interested in checking out all possibilities.

[Cinderella]

http://www.realcities.com/mld/centre...list&pageNo=12

Q I am wondering about the timeline of that Friday in April 2005. Did Ray not go into the office at all that morning ? In other words, did he watch Patty go off to work and he stayed behind at home ? And then he called in to the office himself as " OFF " for the day. Later he called Patty from his car while on Route 192 at about 11:15 AM? So we have at least 3 hours or so between the time Patty left for work to the time he called her on the cell phone that is not accounted for. Does that sum it up correctly ?
Anonymous, Albany, NY 11/28/06

A That sums it up correctly, yes. Ray did not go in to the office at all that fateful Friday. He was still home when Patty left for work. He later called Patty to tell her he would not be home at mid-day to walk the dog and that he was taking a drive on Route 192.
Pete Bosak 11/29/06

[Cinderella]

http://www.realcities.com/mld/centre...list&pageNo=12

Q Are their any witnesses to Mr. Gricar and/or the Mini Cooper being in Bellefonte on the morning of 4/15/05, prior to the phone call to Ms. Fornicola at 11:30 AM? I'm thinking of neighbors, delivery people, or a letter carrier. As there was contact with Mr. Gricar after that, it might have gone unreported.
J. J., Philadelphia, PA 11/12/06


A None that I know of. Anyone out there have any ideas?
Pete Bosak 11/27/06

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cinderella [*]http://www.realcities.com/mld/centre...list&pageNo=12

Q Are their any witnesses to Mr. Gricar and/or the Mini Cooper being in Bellefonte on the morning of 4/15/05, prior to the phone call to Ms. Fornicola at 11:30 AM? I'm thinking of neighbors, delivery people, or a letter carrier. As there was contact with Mr. Gricar after that, it might have gone unreported.
J. J., Philadelphia, PA 11/12/06


A None that I know of. Anyone out there have any ideas?
Pete Bosak 11/27/06 [/*]

Again, thank you for pointing out that I was interested in looking at that morning anbd noted other contact.

[Cinderella]

http://www.realcities.com/mld/centre...=list&pageNo=8

Q Hi, Pete. Great job you're doing so far. My question is "When did the police search Mr. Gricar's house?". I've never seen anything to indicate that an actual search ever took place.
Anonymous 1/12/07


A To my knowledge, the only search of the home was by Patty. That is how it was determined what police believe Gricar was wearing when he disappeared. Patty found those items of clothing missing. But police have said nothing unusual was found. That also is how police knew Ray's laptop was gone.
Pete Bosak 1/15/07

[Cinderella]

http://www.realcities.com/mld/centre...=list&pageNo=7


Q I totally agree with the statments from 'Burke, Va'....you just don't rely on statement from girlfriend, Patty...that there wasnt anything unusual in the home, etc...this jsut isnt stardard practice in any other case-why this one?? as well as the disregard of Ms.Fenton's sighting and sureness- totally dismissed without reason...just */c his car was found in Lewisburg?? Not good enough!
Anonymous, Winchester, VA 1/24/07

A Thanks for writing.
Pete Bosak 1/25/07

[Cinderella]

http://www.realcities.com/mld/centre...=list&pageNo=7


Q Pete, I too feel a search of the home should have been conducted. There was GROSS NEGLIGENCE in not doing one. The Lap Top in and of it self indicates a huge ‘out of the ordinary’ and a thorough search should have been conducted based on this alone. Not an – Oh lets see what Patty finds - attitude. Is Patty trained in forensics? Not likely. If I were to walk into your house with a gun or maybe in the back yard when you let your dog out (not that I would ever do such a thing) and say take your laptop and come with me - is there any sign of a struggle? Not likely. But there might be foot prints or some other tell-tail sign that a trained professional might have been able to discover that would be overlooked by a ‘distraught’ girlfriend. I have to ask again WHY this was not done? What possible, plausible, logical explanation can be given to excuse such a search. Something VERY disconcerting is going on here.
Anonymous, Burke VA 1/24/07


A Thanks for writing.
Pete Bosak 1/24/07

[J. J. in Phila]

Bellefonte police Officer Darrel Zaccagni, the lead investigator in the Gricar case, said the home Gricar shared with girlfriend Patty Fornicola was searched in the early days of the investigation, but nothing seemed to be amiss. Luminol, used to detect blood even if it has been washed away, was not used. "If we'd found something suspicious," Zaccagni said, they could have used it....
Erin Nissley 10/13/05


And...

I answered my last question on 11/25. Since then, I've gotten no questions that are easily answered, until yours: Police first began investigating Gricar's disappearance after his girlfriend and housemate Patty Fornicola called them at about 11:30 p.m. April 15. During the first days of investigation, police did not dust for fingerprints because "he was just a missing person," according to Bellefonte police Officer Darrel Zaccagni, the lead investigator in the case. After he hadn't returned home or shown up for work in the next few days, officers re-evaluated the case and went back to Fornicola's house to investigate further. While there, they looked for "any signs of obvious foul play - new carpeting, fresh scrub marks," Zaccagni said....
Erin Nissley 12/09/05

[sarcasm]Now, let's all be critical of PB because he doesn't have a photographic memory.[/sarcasm]

BTW, if there was any question that I really was PB, that should dispel it.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Cinderella [*]http://www.realcities.com/mld/centre...=list&pageNo=7


Q I totally agree with the statments from 'Burke, Va'....you just don't rely on statement from girlfriend, Patty...that there wasnt anything unusual in the home, etc...this jsut isnt stardard practice in any other case-why this one?? as well as the disregard of Ms.Fenton's sighting and sureness- totally dismissed without reason...just */c his car was found in Lewisburg?? Not good enough!
Anonymous, Winchester, VA 1/24/07

A Thanks for writing.
Pete Bosak 1/25/07 [/*]

Is the person inferring CF's siting to be true or the theory that PF did something to him is true? Can't have it both ways. If he was sited at 3 pm in the parking lot on 4/15/05, then no one has done anything to him.

He probably was the man in Mi with the older woman, on his way to Canada and then Slovenia, as former Judge O'Kicki did. And wasn't that siting by a LE officer, or former one? Just curious.

[Cinderella]

http://www.realcities.com/mld/centre...=list&pageNo=7

Here is the earlier post

Q Pete, I too feel a search of the home should have been conducted. There was GROSS NEGLIGENCE in not doing one. The Lap Top in and of it self indicates a huge ‘out of the ordinary’ and a thorough search should have been conducted based on this alone. Not an – Oh lets see what Patty finds - attitude. Is Patty trained in forensics? Not likely. If I were to walk into your house with a gun or maybe in the back yard when you let your dog out (not that I would ever do such a thing) and say take your laptop and come with me - is there any sign of a struggle? Not likely. But there might be foot prints or some other tell-tail sign that a trained professional might have been able to discover that would be overlooked by a ‘distraught’ girlfriend. I have to ask again WHY this was not done? What possible, plausible, logical explanation can be given to excuse such a search. Something VERY disconcerting is going on here.
Anonymous, Burke VA 1/24/07

A Thanks for writing.
Pete Bosak 1/24/07

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by sherrijean981 [*]

Is the person inferring CF's siting to be true or the theory that PF did something to him is true? Can't have it both ways. If he was sited at 3 pm in the parking lot on 4/15/05, then no one has done anything to him.

Being objective, we have reports of the cell phone records after work, but they have never released a log.

He probably was the man in Mi with the older woman, on his way to Canada and then Slovenia, as former Judge O'Kicki did. And wasn't that siting by a LE officer, or former one? Just curious. [/*]

This was several months afterward. If RFG wanted to go to Canada, he could have gotten there a lot more quickly.

Judge Grine, ironically, was a former State College police officer and formerly was the DA who first hired RFG. You would think that if anyone would have recognized RFG, it would be Judge Grine.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila [*]

Being objective, we have reports of the cell phone records after work, but they have never released a log.



This was several months afterward. If RFG wanted to go to Canada, he could have gotten there a lot more quickly.

Judge Grine, ironically, was a former State College police officer and formerly was the DA who first hired RFG. You would think that if anyone would have recognized RFG, it would be Judge Grine. [/*]

Maybe he was seeing the USA, maybe one of the marked routes he had on his map at the office, before he made it over the border to Canada? Did anyone ever check the map and compare it to the places where he was "supposedly" sited?

That whole situation with Judge Grine and Carolyn Fenton sounded odd to me. There had to be some way of checking whether it was Friday or another day they both saw him in the parking lot. Did CF leave early 2 days, maybe Thursday and Friday?

Ray was off Thursday afternoon, could have been the day he got his ride (car) to get out of town, park it somewhere that day, to be used on Friday. Wasn't Thursday afternoon the day JKA thought she heard the door shutting loudly in his office? Could have come in and picked something up and had the car in the lot then? To be seen by Judge Grine and CF when leaving the lot?

Who would have helped him get the car? Who was off work on Thursday and Friday? SS was off both days. How good of a friend is he? A lady friend from out of town who might be visiting the area? A friend who owned his own business and could come and go as he pleased? A loyal employee?

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by sherrijean981 [*]

Maybe he was seeing the USA, maybe one of the marked routes he had on his map at the office, before he made it over the border to Canada? Did anyone ever check the map and compare it to the places where he was "supposedly" sited?

Time wise, the sightings don't fit. The Texas and LA sighting occurred well after Michigan, IIRC.

That whole situation with Judge Grine and Carolyn Fenton sounded odd to me. There had to be some way of checking whether it was Friday or another day they both saw him in the parking lot. Did CF leave early 2 days, maybe Thursday and Friday?

Grine seemed to have been very cooperative, but they couldn't make that determination.

I'm not answering the rest of your questions because I don't have an answer. I think they are excellent questions.

Ultimately, I think the answer to this case is to ask the right questions. I think you've just asked a few of them.

[Cinderella]

Logic,

In the post you first referred to I thnk that the person was very upset that PF's house was not searched. I thought what they were trying to say was that PF's house should have been investigated.

[sherrijean981]

Logic just showed how much PF knew about investigations and how she helped with it. She opened her home up to LE and they were in and out of her home, she gave them the computer, even asking if they wanted the laptop. She gave them all the help they needed. Guess it wasn't enough for the public, not even the very thorough lie detector test she and Lara took. Hours of grueling questions on both of them.

What more do you want from her?

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks [*]


Thanks for posting this.

The person posting assumed there is no knowledge of forensics, but a probation/parole officer is trained to conduct search and seizure, licensed to carry a firearm, and is skilled in electronic monitoring and computer usage. The probation officer also has complete knowledge of an investigation from start to finish. The poster's assumption is incorrect, IMO.

http://www.answers.com/topic/probati...er?cat=biz-fin [/*]

Actually, in PA, a gun is optional and requires training IIRC. No actual forensic investigation is involved, and PEF hadn't been one for a while.

Here a generic job description from Bucks County:

http://www.buckscounty.org/courts/Cr...obOfficer.aspx

I know a few people that do it and it's not an "investigative" job.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by logicworks [*]


LOL....... Twist and shout, SJ.
Enough for the public? When the standard for an investigation falls that low, NO ONE is safe. It can't get any worse.

Question though.....why are you so certain of the LD test results? [/*]

I don't believe DZ did everything on his own. He had a superior officer. DZ has screwed up, but there were other's in on that investigation, and LE is not going to let a citizen call the shots.
PSP, Secret Service and FBI don't take orders from a citizen.

You can say it all you want but it doesn't make it so. TG, LG and CG were all in PF's home. Do you think for one minute there wasn't any looking around going on, you can probably think again.

Why are you so uncertain of the test results? Why has your attitude changed so much from looking at "signs" to now ready to throw the rope over the tree?

[gstickley]

Originally posted by sherrijean981 [*]

(snip)

Why are you so uncertain of the test results? Why has your attitude changed so much from looking at "signs" to now ready to throw the rope over the tree? [/*]

This is at least the second time posters who have questions about "the soulmate" have been met with a phrase such as "throw the rope over the tree", the last being the labeling of posters as "lynch mob" as per S1 a few months ago.

I personally find this type language very offensive. There is absolutely no reason for this type offront to posters who have questions about the investigation or persons involved in same. At no time do I ever remember seeing or hearing that this was a message board strictly for those who agree with some; I was under the impression that this was a message board for the views of whomever wished to post.

The regular derogatory remarks, put-downs, insinuations, accusations, veiled threats, etc., of posters are bad enough, but the above is totally uncalled for.

JMO

[Politigal]

Originally posted by gstickley [*]

This is at least the second time posters who have questions about "the soulmate" have been met with a phrase such as "throw the rope over the tree", the last being the labeling of posters as "lynch mob" as per S1 a few months ago.

I personally find this type language very offensive. There is absolutely no reason for this type offront to posters who have questions about the investigation or persons involved in same. At no time do I ever remember seeing or hearing that this was a message board strictly for those who agree with some; I was under the impression that this was a message board for the views of whomever wished to post.

The regular derogatory remarks, put-downs, insinuations, accusations, veiled threats, etc., of posters are bad enough, but the above is totally uncalled for.

JMO [/*]

You are definitely on a roll G Stickley...

kudos!

[Cinderella]

[quote]Originally posted by gstickley [*]

This is at least the second time posters who have questions about "the soulmate" have been met with a phrase such as "throw the rope over the tree", the last being the labeling of posters as "lynch mob" as per S1 a few months ago.

I personally find this type language very offensive. There is absolutely no reason for this type offront to posters who have questions about the investigation or persons involved in same. At no time do I ever remember seeing or hearing that this was a message board strictly for those who agree with some; I was under the impression that this was a message board for the views of whomever wished to post.

The regular derogatory remarks, put-downs, insinuations, accusations, veiled threats, etc., of posters are bad enough, but the above is totally uncalled for.
----------------------------

I totally agree and I think that the posts directed at the posters need to stop. We are not here to attack others, we are here to find the truth. As far as what I know or who told me what is no ones business. I would say stop the harassment.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by gstickley [*]

This is at least the second time posters who have questions about "the soulmate" have been met with a phrase such as "throw the rope over the tree", the last being the labeling of posters as "lynch mob" as per S1 a few months ago.

I think it is a quite accurate term for a few posters.

1. We had one that started a thread (now deleted) insisting that PEF made the cell phone call, even though it was impossible for her to get to the location. That was such a fiasco that author contacted Coldwater to change the title.

2. We've had posters insisting that PEF was the one who first mentioned the suicide of Roy Gricar, only to find that the mention of Water Street instantly triggered it n the mind of TG and CG (completely expectedly).

3. We've had posters insisting that PEF brought up the Cleveland trip, only to find it was Sloane.

4. We have this thread insisting that DZ is a "buddy" of PEF, yet, at best, we have a media report that said DZ remembered her from 1981, when she was in high school then the niece of a prominent local businessman an politician. He didn't even indicate that the two had ever spoken prior to her call that night (though I'm sure in a town of less 7,000 people, they had).

5. We've had numerous posters insist that PEF changed her story, yet, when ask for examples, no one can provide one.

6. We've had one poster insisting that there was reason to believe that RFG wasn't living with PEF, yet all his things were there, he never changed his mailing address, never told his daughter not to call him there, never rented a motel room, and never stayed with a friend. Oh, and, BTW, the day RFG disappeared, he was driving a car registered to PEF.

7. We've had several posters suggesting that, even though PEF had no idea where he was, and hadn't been heard from in 12 hours, she should go out, at night and perform a one woman search for him.

8. We've seen numerous posters insisting that PEF wanted to get married, RFG didn't, and it was a gift instead of a ring at Christmas 2004. Yet TG drove it, apparently at a high rate of speed, in July 2004.

9. We've had posters insist that PEF's job change was so that she could be "close" to RFG, yet she was still in the same and wouldn't as much of a chance as VWA of being with him in court.

"Lynch mob" is accurate.

I personally find this type language very offensive. There is absolutely no reason for this type offront to posters who have questions about the investigation or persons involved in same. At no time do I ever remember seeing or hearing that this was a message board strictly for those who agree with some; I was under the impression that this was a message board for the views of whomever wished to post.

The regular derogatory remarks, put-downs, insinuations, accusations, veiled threats, etc., of posters are bad enough, but the above is totally uncalled for.

JMO [/*]

Many times, I've been accused of working for TG, PEF, being with LE, being PB, occasionally being RFG, and having "inside information," old Lustor's famous charge. I usually provided a link.

Yes, I'd call that "derogatory remarks, put-downs, insinuations, accusations," though I don't recall any threats.

[day2day]

I really don't think that sj meant that "literally"....I also think that we ALL get very emotional about this case ....but i do understand what you are talkin bout gs. PF can be a VERY touchy subject here and i will never understand why!

IMHO-I will NEVER be able to stop looking at PF because the whole darn story revolves around HER. NOT to look at her in this case would just be silly...(right DZ?!!?)

[J. J. in Phila]

GS, I forgot one. Your claim that I said JKA could have been involved in the murder of RFG, in my murder scenario. I said that you could eliminate DA's Office staff, which would naturally include her.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by day2day [*]I really don't think that sj meant that "literally"....I also think that we ALL get very emotional about this case ....but i do understand what you are talkin bout gs. PF can be a VERY touchy subject here and i will never understand why!

IMHO-I will NEVER be able to stop looking at PF because the whole darn story revolves around HER. NOT to look at her in this case would just be silly...(right DZ?!!?) [/*]

I think that you were correct, in the Spring/Summer of 2005. She was looked at, however. No apparent means, no apparent motives, and no opportunity, that I can find.

[sherrijean981]

Ok! I touched a nerve here didn't I?

I have sat here reading every night the posts by pgal, gstickley, lw and cinderella constantly trying to get the case pointed to PF. I look at it different and ask a question and I am now being jumped on by all. Really pi$$ed you off didn't I?

Not my intention to do so but......

[Cinderella]

SherriJean, you are off topic.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Cinderella [*]SherriJean, you are off topic.

[/*]

Cinderella, I have just as much right to respond to something on this forum as you do.

I am no more off topic than any of the other posters on here. I was discussing PF.

I have not ask you any questions, have not specifically worded anything TO you and if you don't like my posts then pass on by.

Your name got mentioned because you and LW have referred to reports about the case, but no links to them. I ask where the info is coming from and how it was gotten. If you are posting something supposedly from a report it should be linked. Per TOS.

[Politigal]

In today's Centredaily article about RG's case...it's mentioned that he had discussed people/places/things from Cleveland and of course, good ole Mel Wiley was one of those topics.

Doncha think - that more than likely - RG discussed things about Cleveland with his *soulmate* too?

I'd bet my bottom $$.

[Politigal]

After all....RG took Patty to Cleveland on their first date.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Politigal [*]In today's Centredaily article about RG's case...it's mentioned that he had discussed people/places/things from Cleveland and of course, good ole Mel Wiley was one of those topics.

Doncha think - that more than likely - RG discussed things about Cleveland with his *soulmate* too?

I'd bet my bottom $$. [/*]

I'm sure he did, but it would tell us more about RFG mindset if he were talking about the Wiley case with PEF. That case didn't happen in Cleveland, but in another county, and happened more than 15 years prior to their relationship.

We now have RFG talking about Wiley at least seven years after it happened, more than 200 miles from where it happened, with someone, Sloane, with no connection to the place where it happened. If you want to more than double that time, be my guest.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila [*]

I'm sure he did, but it would tell us more about RFG mindset if he were talking about the Wiley case with PEF. That case didn't happen in Cleveland, but in another county, and happened more than 15 years prior to their relationship.

We now have RFG talking about Wiley at least seven years after it happened, more than 200 miles from where it happened, with someone, Sloane, with no connection to the place where it happened. If you want to more than double that time, be my guest. [/*]

He wouldn't have been with PF at that time either. Wasn't he still married to BG? I wonder what she would have to say about that particular case, if she remembers it or RG talking about it?

[Politigal]

I don't think RG has ever been described as mute.

My point was....that RG could just as easily have discussed Mel Wiley with Patty Fornicola as he had with Sloane or anyone else - whether it be in 1992 or 2005.

Patty *could* have been aware of the Mel Wiley case details.

That's all

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Politigal [*]I don't think RG has ever been described as mute.

My point was....that RG could just as easily have discussed Mel Wiley with Patty Fornicola as he had with Sloane or anyone else - whether it be in 1992 or 2005.

Patty *could* have been aware of the Mel Wiley case details.

That's all [/*]

If RFG is still talking about 16-20 years after it happened; I'd find that unusual.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila [*]

If RFG is still talking about 16-20 years after it happened; I'd find that unusual. [/*]

Why? Don't you talk to people about things that have happened in the past? I can remember my father talking about all kinds of things from 20-30 years previously. Good and bad.

[Politigal]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila [*]

If RFG is still talking about 16-20 years after it happened; I'd find that unusual. [/*]

come on JJ....

think about other unsolved cases - that people still talk about years down the road.

and especially if they occurred in your own "back yard"...

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Politigal [*]

come on JJ....

think about other unsolved cases - that people still talk about years down the road.

and especially if they occurred in your own "back yard"... [/*]

P'gal, Wiley was not unsolved, per se. LE stated what they think a walkway happened and that is what was published. The mystery isn't what happened, but where did he go (which isn't a police issue).

It wasn't, by August of 1985, LE saying, we don't know what happened to Mel Wiley. They were saying, at that point, Wiley walked away from his life.

It is still an odd subject to be discussing seven years (possibly more) after the fact, even if raised during O'Kicki's flight.