Missing DA - Ray GRICAR Wkend 2/15

[Politigal]

I echo TG's last post....Happy Friday....

[Politigal]

come on JJ ---

I'm ready....

[Cloudbuster]

PGAL ROFLMAO!!! I like this icon looks like a breath of energy.yell I guess it really is lol. I was reflecting on what TG said today about RG being portrayed as toooo meticulus( respell it) lol. I think clean and neat is the better terms. I also think RG had a kool side as he let Tony drive his car knowing all too well that devilish smile was about to rocket his poor mini into tail spins lol. Im glad at any rate that he rectified the meaning. I just invisioned Ray to be very organized neat and clean. I think RG had a fun side to him when around most likly Lara and the nephews. I just wondered how he dealt with those in the office in relationship wise meaning Co workers particully the ADA's. Im centered on one but I can't say a outright name. I also wonder if all evidence was accounted for-that's important for me to know cause if it isn't then I think I know where it is. Thats why Im asking. I don't expect anyone to answer that on here but in a PM if you know would be great. If we compare nothing then each other knows what may help the other. JMO

[J. J. in Phila]

There hasn't exactly been anything "new" in the last twelve hours (except my client canceled out on me, thank heavens).

Right now, we know this, it is exceptionally likely RFG was in Lewisburg after noon on 4/15/05.

RFG had an interest in walkaway cases, to the point of discussing Mel Wiley 6-7 years after the fact.

[Politigal]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila [*]There hasn't exactly been anything "new" in the last twelve hours (except my client canceled out on me, thank heavens).

Right now, we know this, it is exceptionally likely RFG was in Lewisburg after noon on 4/15/05.

RFG had an interest in walkaway cases, to the point of discussing Mel Wiley 6-7 years after the fact. [/*]

I meant to ask you something....

Since you've posted as if you've actually communicated with Sloane.....please ask him if Patty Fornicola phoned him the evening Ray Gricar did not come home.

thank you, thank you very much

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Politigal [*]

I meant to ask you something....

Since you've posted as if you've actually communicated with Sloane.....please ask him if Patty Fornicola phoned him the evening Ray Gricar did not come home.

thank you, thank you very much [/*]

I have communicated directly with Steve Sloane. In many cases, I do know what he has said.

I frankly do not know if Sloane was available on 4/15/05.

[Cloudbuster]

I wish LE would go check to see if one particular ADA was in the office friday and if any other ADA's was absent. Bet at least 2 of them was out or more.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila [*]

I have communicated directly with Steve Sloane. In many cases, I do know what he has said.

I frankly do not know if Sloane was available on 4/15/05. [/*]

Did it again. I have not directly communicated with Steve Sloane. I have communicated with people who have spoken with him.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster [*]I wish LE would go check to see if one particular ADA was in the office friday and if any other ADA's was absent. Bet at least 2 of them was out or more. [/*]

I believe at least two were out of the office, Smith, traveling with his wife, and Sloane, who was on medical leave.

[Politigal]

Awesome overview Logic!!

[J. J. in Phila]

Let's take a look at some of these:

Originally posted by logicworks

1) the first sighting at 7:30 am in Centre Hall, according to person Cind talked to, saying he recognized RG from the news and the vehicle, which he claims he saw making a turn onto route 192.

Never reported to LE; I'm not sure how well someone could see the driver.

4) at the park in Lewisburg at 12-ish, seemingly waiting for someone, Mini parked on street near museum. RG said to be sitting on park bench, reading a newspaper, IIRC.

I don't recall the time being "12ish." I don't believe that a time was assigned, except afternoon.

7) Down at Shickellamy Park in the Mini: IIRC, d2d's dad heard a sighting report on news.


8) On route 80, near an exit, in the Mini, stopped with someone coercing him to get out of the car and him speeding away.

I think you include that someone saw a Mini; there were other red Minis in the area.

9) In the SOS parking lot, RG seen getting into another vehicle.

I've seen it as "a vehicle," but not necessarily another one.

10) Mini arrives in the SOS lot sometime between 4:30-5 pm.
(when did it leave if he was in seen getting into another vehicle?)

A witness said he heard this, but we've had no published direct witness to this.

15) Mini found in parking lot, in a different location, according to TG, at 6:30 pm Saturday, by PSP officer, on his way out to dinner.

I don't recall the difference in location being established, the the question has been raised.

Judging from the latest evidence, there is NO solid fingerprint evidence proving RG drove the car to Lewisburg on Friday or Saturday.

There is evidence that RFG was in the parking lot, namely his scent.

So are all of the reported sightings that we are aware of correct, are some of them correct or are none of them correct?

IMO, the stats on 'sightings' holds much truth ......while sighters are trying to be helpful, they are usually incorrect.
JMO [/*]

I've said this before. Will it is unlikely that all witnesses are completely correct in their reports, it is hugely unlikely that all of the witnesses are completely incorrect. When coupled with the scent, there is more than enough evidence to put RFG in Lewisburg, after noon 4/15/05.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster [*]I wish LE would go check to see if one particular ADA was in the office friday and if any other ADA's was absent. Bet at least 2 of them was out or more. [/*]

I will go you one better.

I would like to know who was off work on 4/14/05 - 4/15/05 in the BPD?????
I would like to know who told or where DZ got the info that RG was in Huntingdon on 4/14/05?

I would like to know why the statements DZ made on ALL the fingerprints IN the car belonging to RG, are now coming out they are not RG's and there were no identifiable prints or no prints IN the car? What gives DZ??

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/14338897.htm (link no longer workable.

Quote:
"Gricar case still baffles police a year later Posted on Fri, Apr. 14, 2006 By Pete Bosak pbosak@centredaily.com BELLEFONTE -- The car also told police nothing. ((((((( "All of the legible prints in the car were identified," Zaccagni said. "And they were Ray's." There were no indications anyone tried to "wipe the car clean" of any other fingerprints, Zaccagni said. "))))))) Quote

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by logicworks [*]

IMO, the stats on 'sightings' holds much truth ......while sighters are trying to be helpful, they are usually incorrect.
JMO [/*]

What bothers me is the one shop owner who does not want to be involved.

Why would someone who might have seen something, seen RG, seen his Mini Cooper being moved, seem him coerced into another car, maybe being hurt, not want to report that to the PSP or any officer who was in that area looking for RG and for information? Was there someone in her business that might have been involved?

[tonyGricar]

Originally posted by sherrijean981 [*]What bothers me is the one shop owner who does not want to be involved.

Why would someone who might have seen something, seen RG, seen his Mini Cooper being moved, seem him coerced into another car, maybe being hurt, not want to report that to the PSP or any officer who was in that area looking for RG and for information? Was there someone in her business that might have been involved? [/*]

You must know something I don't or you've created an amalgam of various "reports".

[Politigal]

Originally posted by tonyGricar [*]You must know something I don't or you've created an amalgam of various "reports". [/*]

for some odd reason....the word "amalgam" makes me think of Vitameatavegamin...

[J. J. in Phila]

I noticed something in PB's latest posting:

As for your last question, if someone wore gloves, yes, that definitely would damage, destroy, smear, etc. whatever prints were there. But there also likely would have been some indication of gloves though. Police have said there was no evidence anyone tried to "wipe down" the Mini.
Pete Bosak 2/14/08

First, this has surpassed my knowledge level of fingerprinting. I could understand how someone handling an object while wearing gloves could (and probably would) smear the prints. I'm not certain how LE could determine if the object was handled by someone wearing gloves.

If they can, that could indicate that there was no one driving the car while gloved and no one attempting to hide prints.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Politigal [*]

for some odd reason....the word "amalgam" makes me think of Vitameatavegamin... [/*]

Me too, but I could use some amalagam on my one tooth, it is irritating the heck out of my tongue, with it's sharp edge!!

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by sherrijean981 [*]

I will go you one better.

I would like to know who was off work on 4/14/05 - 4/15/05 in the BPD?????
I would like to know who told or where DZ got the info that RG was in Huntingdon on 4/14/05?

I would like to know why the statements DZ made on ALL the fingerprints IN the car belonging to RG, are now coming out they are not RG's and there were no identifiable prints or no prints IN the car? What gives DZ??

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/14338897.htm (link no longer workable.

Quote:
"Gricar case still baffles police a year later Posted on Fri, Apr. 14, 2006 By Pete Bosak pbosak@centredaily.com BELLEFONTE -- The car also told police nothing. ((((((( "All of the legible prints in the car were identified," Zaccagni said. "And they were Ray's." There were no indications anyone tried to "wipe the car clean" of any other fingerprints, Zaccagni said. "))))))) Quote [/*]

GOOD Question SJ!! Now JJ your saying only 2 ADA's was out? SS and MS that's all? I really need to know this, it's important.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila [*]I noticed something in PB's latest posting:

As for your last question, if someone wore gloves, yes, that definitely would damage, destroy, smear, etc. whatever prints were there. But there also likely would have been some indication of gloves though. Police have said there was no evidence anyone tried to "wipe down" the Mini.
Pete Bosak 2/14/08

First, this has surpassed my knowledge level of fingerprinting. I could understand how someone handling an object while wearing gloves could (and probably would) smear the prints. I'm not certain how LE could determine if the object was handled by someone wearing gloves.

If they can, that could indicate that there was no one driving the car while gloved and no one attempting to hide prints. [/*]

Sounds like no one drove it!

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster [*]

GOOD Question SJ!! Now JJ your saying only 2 ADA's was out? SS and MS that's all? I really need to know this, it's important. [/*]

Hi CB, Did you get any info from the information you received the other day? I was searching the area in different newspapers in that area but only one drug bust stood out.

What all newspapers are in your area and what was the name given to you?

[tonyGricar]

Originally posted by sherrijean981 [*]What bothers me is the one shop owner who does not want to be involved.

Why would someone who might have seen something, seen RG, seen his Mini Cooper being moved, seem him coerced into another car, maybe being hurt, not want to report that to the PSP or any officer who was in that area looking for RG and for information? Was there someone in her business that might have been involved? [/*]

Taking a leap here, if an educated one, you are referring to the woman who works in a shop that fronts the park. I know the name of it is known, and/or has been posted here, however I'm reticent to mention the shop out of respect for her. Her not wanting to be involved begins and ends with "the public" and the media. She fully cooperated with LE and some of us that have spoken with her. Her account of Ray was seeing him sitting on a park bench, as well as possibly with his car as it was potentially parked in the spots that border the park, and her shop. There was one other red Mini that was parked along those spots that was later identified, so who knows. The rest of it, seeing him coerced into a car isn't coming from her. Tbh, I'm not familiar with a sighting of anyone seeing him coerced into a car. Maybe it's the early hour. I'm usually at my best at 3:30...

[Politigal]

Originally posted by sherrijean981 [*]

Me too, but I could use some amalagam on my one tooth, it is irritating the heck out of my tongue, with it's sharp edge!! [/*]

I found a temporary remedy

2. My tooth broke and there is a sharp edge that is cutting my tongue. Is there anything I can do to protect my tongue from injury?

The best thing to do for a sharp or chipped edge of a tooth is to find a candle, heat it up until you can mold a small piece of the wax. Place the piece of wax on the broken tooth to protect your tongue and cheek and then call the office.

[tonyGricar]

Originally posted by logicworks [*]7) Down at Shickellamy Park in the Mini: IIRC, d2d's dad heard a sighting report on news.

9) In the SOS parking lot, RG seen getting into another vehicle. [/*]

7. I don't recall a Shickellamy sighting. Any additional info? If it made it all the way to D2D's Dad's tv, it must have been more notable than I recall.

Also, I can't find anything on 9.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by sherrijean981 [*]

Hi CB, Did you get any info from the information you received the other day? I was searching the area in different newspapers in that area but only one drug bust stood out.

What all newspapers are in your area and what was the name given to you? [/*]

I didn't find anything that stood out but I will keep trying. On a privy note its a system go for it. Keep your fingers crossed and don't step on any cracks lol.-or you know the saying lol.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster [*]

GOOD Question SJ!! Now JJ your saying only 2 ADA's was out? SS and MS that's all? I really need to know this, it's important. [/*]

No, I've said that those two were out, at least. So could others.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by tonyGricar [*]7. I don't recall a Shickellamy sighting. Any additional info? If it made it all the way to D2D's Dad's tv, it must have been more notable than I recall.

Also, I can't find anything on 9. [/*]

9 is from the Altoona Mirror story of, I think of 6/5/05, related to Baron's visit. It also refers to a previously published story.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by tonyGricar [*]7. I don't recall a Shickellamy sighting. Any additional info? If it made it all the way to D2D's Dad's tv, it must have been more notable than I recall.

Also, I can't find anything on 9. [/*]

I think she meant on the HE show when Shawn Weaver released a detail that RG was spotted at the S Park.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila [*]

No, I've said that those two were out, at least. So could others. [/*]

THX JJ! So the possibility remains open that more could of been off or even a part of the day off like a half day. This is so utterly important for me to know. This is one of those times I wish I was LE.

[tonyGricar]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila [*]9 is from the Altoona Mirror story of, I think of 6/5/05, related to Baron's visit. It also refers to a previously published story. [/*]

Gotcha...

With all due respect to one's beliefs, it would be great if people could separate possible witness sightings from "visions". Sure, you can clearly question the validity of witness accounts as much as you can a psychics, but let's not go overboard and merge the info with psychic visions (especially those that have shown to change to suit her media needs).

[tonyGricar]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster [*]THX JJ! So the possibility remains open that more could of been off or even a part of the day off like a half day. This is so utterly important for me to know. This is one of those times I wish I was LE. [/*]

Could you define "in the office"?

[tonyGricar]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster [*]
I think she meant on the HE show when Shawn Weaver released a detail that RG was spotted at the S Park. [/*]

RG or a Red Mini Cooper?

[Cloudbuster]

Okay I meant in the courthouse offices. Im trying to see who all was off even if they took a half a day off or left even early. If one particular person was off or even gone a half day it will prove something Im looking at. It is valuable for possible evidence. It also will tell me sequences of events unfolding.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by tonyGricar [*]RG or a Red Mini Cooper? [/*]

I thought she meant Ray. I could be wrong though.

[tonyGricar]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster [*]Okay I meant in the courthouse offices. Im trying to see who all was off even if they took a half a day off or left even early. If one particular person was off or even gone a half day it will prove something Im looking at. It is valuable for possible evidence. It also will tell me sequences of events unfolding. [/*]

To be more specific, I bring this up because quite a bit of work time is not actually spent in the office.

[Politigal]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster [*]Okay I meant in the courthouse offices. Im trying to see who all was off even if they took a half a day off or left even early. If one particular person was off or even gone a half day it will prove something Im looking at. It is valuable for possible evidence. It also will tell me sequences of events unfolding. [/*]

The ADA's have been listed before on the board

J Karen Arnold
Mark Smith
Stephen Sloane
Karen Kuebler
Nate Boob
Lance Marshall


Do we really know if anyone was out that Friday other than Sloane?

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by tonyGricar [*]7. I don't recall a Shickellamy sighting. Any additional info? If it made it all the way to D2D's Dad's tv, it must have been more notable than I recall.

Also, I can't find anything on 9. [/*]

I remember hearing about it too, even before I was posting or reading on the forum. Maybe on one of the TV News stations?

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by tonyGricar [*]To be more specific, I bring this up because quite a bit of work time is not actually spent in the office. [/*]

Okay now that will make things harder for me. I still need to find out though. THX!

Pgal thanks for the list. There's one name I wasn't aware of. Crap now it requires more research lol.

Law wise I can't go where I'd like to. Only LE could maybe.

[tonyGricar]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster [*]Okay now that will make things harder for me. [/*]

I have a knack for that...

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by tonyGricar [*]Gotcha...

With all due respect to one's beliefs, it would be great if people could separate possible witness sightings from "visions". Sure, you can clearly question the validity of witness accounts as much as you can a psychics, but let's not go overboard and merge the info with psychic visions (especially those that have shown to change to suit her media needs). [/*]

Just to crystal clear, the Mirror story indicated that a witness saw RFG entering a car (which is inclusive of the Mini), and indicated that the report had been previously published.

In Baron's case, she could have read the account before giving her vision.

And in all fairness to Baron, had I chosen to pass myself off as "J. J. the Psychic," I'm pretty sure that I could have convinced half the posters of my "mystical" abilities, just by doing good research.

[tonyGricar]

This has little to do with Ray's case, but since the subject has come up before, I thought I'd post it. For those of you following the intrepid Steve Fossett's case, yesterday he was declared legally dead... after 6 months. His wife actually filed after 3 months. I don't know if I've posted it on here before, but we've been aware that the 7 year thing is clearly not a hard and fast rule. 6 months has the "fast" part of that covered it seems.

As I've said before, we have no intention of doing this. Just thought it was somewhat relevant.

From the Chicago Tribune:
After a two-hour hearing, Circuit Judge Jeffrey Malak agreed with witnesses who said Fossett had no reason to disappear intentionally and probably died Sept. 3, the day he disappeared.
"I believe the evidence is more than sufficient," he said.
Fossett's wife, Peggy, and lawyers for his estate filed a petition in November seeking to have him declared dead. No one opposed the request.
Because Fossett's body hasn't been found, his wife's lawyers presented evidence to overcome the legal rule that people missing for fewer than seven years are presumed to be alive.