Odds and Ends, Pt. I

[Cinderella]

I just wanted to start a new thread for when sometimes we don't know where to post something. I don't have anything now but before I did. This wasy some of our posts won't be off subject.

[Cinderella]

I don't feel that Ray went home on Thursday night. I think that is why he had the same clothes on. I do believe he was alive at 7:30 a.m. the next morning when the man saw him. I don't know where Ray stayed. If the man hadn't seen him then I would say that he disappeared on Thursday night.

I also have another question of sorts. Everyone knows when Presidents leave office they can pardon whoever they want. Is that true with Judges also. Can they pardon people. I guess if they owe anyone favors, they better get it down before they leave office.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cinderella [*]I don't feel that Ray went home on Thursday night. I think that is why he had the same clothes on. I do believe he was alive at 7:30 a.m. the next morning when the man saw him. I don't know where Ray stayed. If the man hadn't seen him then I would say that he disappeared on Thursday night.

I also have another question of sorts. Everyone knows when Presidents leave office they can pardon whoever they want. Is that true with Judges also. Can they pardon people. I guess if they owe anyone favors, they better get it down before they leave office. [/*]

Judges can't; the President can only issue pardons for Federal crimes.

I have to go with the witnesses and the dogs and say that RFG was in Lewisburg after noon on 4/15/05.

I would like to see the cell phone records.

[Cinderella]

They can do favors for others though without any knowing about it.

[Cinderella]

I am wondering now if Ray even called PF. Maybe someone else had his cell phone. Which one of the DA's stated that Ray did not turn his cell phone off.

Also why did they have a grief session so soon. Didn't they think that Ray might have gotten upset and took some days off? No, I think they knew that he was not coming back.

Also why the closed drapes or curtains? Did they think that Pete might be up on a ladder watching? What happened at the grief session?

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Cinderella [*]I am wondering now if Ray even called PF. Maybe someone else had his cell phone. Which one of the DA's stated that Ray did not turn his cell phone off.

Also why did they have a grief session so soon. Didn't they think that Ray might have gotten upset and took some days off? No, I think they knew that he was not coming back.

Also why the closed drapes or curtains? Did they think that Pete might be up on a ladder watching? What happened at the grief session? [/*]

Cindi I agree about them having the grief session. I can not understand why they would do that when there was no body, no blood, no note, nothing, to prove he wasn't coming back and might just be on a weekend or week out. I have never heard of that being done so soon. Grief over what, not knowing where he is? Couldn't they at least have waited until LE did their investigation?

[gstickley]

Are the planets aligned a certain way or something?

Within the past week or so, we have the following. After 2.75 yrs., information is forthcoming, questions being answered, heretofore unheard from people reportedly coming forward.

***PB answering questions on an almost daily basis; in fact, sometimes 2 at a time.

***PB having a blog ref. RG.

***PB speaking of having ideas of upcoming articles.

***Questions being asked about the remarks made by LE, with discrepancies suddenly being brought to light.

***Sloane reportedly crawling out of the woodwork, telling PB that RG had spoken to him about Wiley & another case of disappearance, after 2.75 yrs.

***JJ suddenly coming forward with a possible witness about RG's supposed interest in disappearance.

***TOL's drunken friend may now be considered credible.

***The idea that others may come forward with information about RG's supposed interest in disappearance.

***Rickard suddenly coming forward for the 1st time to answer a question that has been asked for 2.75 yrs.

What is going on in Centre Co.??? After all this time, is there a real interest in what happened to RG??? Why is there suddenly an apparent interest in getting RG's name out in public??? Why is LE suddenly 'suspect' after all this time???

You people in the Centre Co. area ought to keep your eyes open. The sky may be falling on ya. If not that, something . . . . . All stranger than fiction . . .

[sherrijean981]

Could be because of the 3 year anniversary of RG's disappearance and some of us are pushing for answers from different sources. Pete has said he was going to get an interview with Det. Rickard and Cindi had called to talk to Det. Rickard, questions are flying fast and loose at PB. Plus the call to John Clay about doing a segment for the 3rd Year Anniversary.

Someone was bound to get the stopper unstuck. JMO

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by gstickley [*]Are the planets aligned a certain way or something?

Within the past week or so, we have the following. After 2.75 yrs., information is forthcoming, questions being answered, heretofore unheard from people reportedly coming forward.

I hope you are not objecting.

***Sloane reportedly crawling out of the woodwork, telling PB that RG had spoken to him about Wiley & another case of disappearance, after 2.75 yrs.

***JJ suddenly coming forward with a possible witness about RG's supposed interest in disappearance.

Oh, please! I raised the questions about Wiley in July; I've mentioned the rationale for the "better friend's" reasons for thinking the case was a walkaway in December.

***TOL's drunken friend may now be considered credible.

TOL's friend, who probably wasn't drunk when she knew RFG, credibility went only because of the corroboration.

What is going on in Centre Co.??? After all this time, is there a real interest in what happened to RG??? Why is there suddenly an apparent interest in getting RG's name out in public??? Why is LE suddenly 'suspect' after all this time???

I don't know what's going on, but I hope there is more of it.

[Cinderella]

Originally posted by gstickley [*]Are the planets aligned a certain way or something?

Within the past week or so, we have the following. After 2.75 yrs., information is forthcoming, questions being answered, heretofore unheard from people reportedly coming forward.

***PB answering questions on an almost daily basis; in fact, sometimes 2 at a time.

***PB having a blog ref. RG.

***PB speaking of having ideas of upcoming articles.

***Questions being asked about the remarks made by LE, with discrepancies suddenly being brought to light.

***Sloane reportedly crawling out of the woodwork, telling PB that RG had spoken to him about Wiley & another case of disappearance, after 2.75 yrs.

***JJ suddenly coming forward with a possible witness about RG's supposed interest in disappearance.

***TOL's drunken friend may now be considered credible.

***The idea that others may come forward with information about RG's supposed interest in disappearance.

***Rickard suddenly coming forward for the 1st time to answer a question that has been asked for 2.75 yrs.

What is going on in Centre Co.??? After all this time, is there a real interest in what happened to RG??? Why is there suddenly an apparent interest in getting RG's name out in public??? Why is LE suddenly 'suspect' after all this time???

You people in the Centre Co. area ought to keep your eyes open. The sky may be falling on ya. If not that, something . . . . . All stranger than fiction . . . [/*]

I will say what I think it is. I think a large part of it is Detective Rickard. It takes a while to go through information. Maybe at the time, his saying nothing was the best thing. Because he didn't give wrong information. He is very nice and I think that he really truly wants to find out what happened to Ray. He is one that takes time to listen what you have to say.

Also Pete couldn't answer the questions himself, he needed cooperation and he wasn't getting it.

Plus don't forget Prayer. God can do all things.

And oh btw, we have 2 new commissioners.

Interesting discussions last night. Following up on gstickley's post, I looked through my collection of 2007 news articles (it took less than a minute)...DZ moved on, MR moved up, 2-year anniversary came and went with no new information, PF clings to hope, family's hope pinned on MR.

PB responded to 67 inquiries in the CDT's Q&A last year...nearly half of them occuring in January, and all of them basically just rehashing old information. This year in the Q&A began as last year ended...with a question about the prints found in/on the Mini Cooper.

More rehash followed, a plug for this forum in PB's blog, a brief diversion to old bone fragments found in Centre County. Then, just this past weekend, things changed...at least in the Q&A. There was a bit of new information from SS, and PB and MR apparently set up a meeting or conference. That appeared to come to fruition just yesterday, with an answer to the question about the prints.

But the most promising thing I saw in the Q&A was PB's hint (yesterday) of new story ideas he is working on for articles in the newspaper. The sky is not likely falling (unless you count today's winter storm). But I have a feeling that we will soon be seeing some much needed public attention given to this mystery. I only hope it is the kind of attention that Ray Gricar deserves. All JMOO

[gstickley]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1 [*]

(snip)

But the most promising thing I saw in the Q&A was PB's hint (yesterday) of new story ideas he is working on for articles in the newspaper. The sky is not likely falling (unless you count today's winter storm). But I have a feeling that we will soon be seeing some much needed public attention given to this mystery. I only hope it is the kind of attention that Ray Gricar deserves. All JMOO [/*]

Why now, S1, why suddenly now, after all this time???? Inquiring minds want to know . . .

Originally posted by gstickley
Why now, S1, why suddenly now, after all this time???? Inquiring minds want to know . . .

PB (CDT Q&A, 5/16/06): "...I can't ask Zaccagni anything now, as he no longer is allowed to speak with the press." PB (ibid, 2/9/08) "Detective Rickard and I spoke briefly about a week ago, with plans to set up a time to talk maybe this past Thursday or Friday. [But] My calls weren't returned." "...this is a reason why questions to this forum aren't answered quickly. I just don't have the access that I used to."

Edited to add: PB (ibid, 2/11/08) "I talked with Detective Matt Rickard today...".

[gstickley]

Okay, S1.

Now, what about Sloane & his apparently sudden departure from silence for so long? The Wiley disappearance has been bantered around on the board for months. Suddenly, SS comes forward with information that RG had indicated an interest in the Wiley case, plus another disappearance also??? Why now, Mr. Sloane, why now???

[tonyGricar]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1 [*]Interesting discussions last night. Following up on gstickley's post, I looked through my collection of 2007 news articles (it took less than a minute)...DZ moved on...[/*]

Z apparently just retired a week or two ago. He's now a CC Deputy...

[tonyGricar]

Originally posted by gstickley [*]Okay, S1.

Now, what about Sloane & his apparently sudden departure from silence for so long? The Wiley disappearance has been bantered around on the board for months. Suddenly, SS comes forward with information that RG had indicated an interest in the Wiley case, plus another disappearance also??? Why now, Mr. Sloane, why now??? [/*]

"Sudden departure from silence" and "Suddenly, SS comes forward" imbues a rather dramatic overtone to the reality of someone (PB) simply asking a new question (read: not the usual rehash). No offense to this board or the people here, but the CTV is not as widely read as some of you clearly think. I know Sloane doesn't read it.

Fwiw, I'm aware of no "fascination" held by Ray on the Wiley case. I'm aware that he had knowledge of it, but so do alot of people.

I was in Wiley's former stomping grounds of Hinckley a few weeks ago. Nothing to report...

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by tonyGricar [*]"Sudden departure from silence" and "Suddenly, SS comes forward" imbues a rather dramatic overtone to the reality of someone (PB) simply asking a new question (read: not the usual rehash). No offense to this board or the people here, but the CTV is not as widely read as some of you clearly think. I know Sloane doesn't read it.

Fwiw, I'm aware of no "fascination" held by Ray on the Wiley case. I'm aware that he had knowledge of it, but so do alot of people.

I was in Wiley's former stomping grounds of Hinckley a few weeks ago. Nothing to report... [/*]

I can pretty much guarantee that it wasn't "suddenly." The thing that tipped me off about any mention of Wiley was JKA featuring of it in pages.

Other than an example of walk away, I did not suspect anyone in Centre County ever heard of him. I pressed PB to ask the question and he did. He got the answer. It took six months.

I do find it unusual, to say the least, that RFG was discussing the Wiley case at least six years after it happened, with someone who had no connection to the case or to the area. I also do find it unusual that the name rings a bell, kinda sorta, with JKA.

[day2day]

Originally posted by tonyGricar [*]Z apparently just retired a week or two ago. He's now a CC Deputy... [/*]

I am sure my friends in CC can rest sound knowing THAT!! JMO

[Cinderella]

One of the biggest things that happened is that Judge Brown had to retire so he is no longer a Judge at the Courthouse. Judge Grine filled his position and Judge Grine is the one that handpicked Ray. Wonder if that has anything to do with it. Maybe Judge Grine was pressured into his memory being faulty.

[Cinderella]

Originally posted by tonyGricar [*]Z apparently just retired a week or two ago. He's now a CC Deputy... [/*]

Z wan't in that position at the Bellefonte school long.

[Cinderella]

BTW, Sherriff Denny Nau was asked by someone if he knew Joseph Leathers and he said no. Billy Joe Leathers aunt said that he is like family. So why did he have to lie about that?

[Cinderella]

I think the former Judge Brown owed someone a favor and it was paid in full. When you think about Ray not looking at Brown, but looking around the room, that tells something. Even the secretary noticed something different.

Then when Ray saw CF and Judge Griine they said that he left.

Ray was avoiding the courthouse. I think that he was avoid PF also. I don't think that he saw her after the Thursday night in the park.

I think that Ray knew that he was being set up. The words of Carla Baron come back to me. She said that Ray had been warned.

[J. J. in Phila]

I doubt that this involves a judge. And I'll give Grine, JKA, and the witnesses a pass for not having a perfect memory. We're asking too much of them.

[Politigal]

Not that it amounts to a hill of beans, but a visitor read my googlepages on the case yesterday for approx 23 minutes from Kuala Lumpur at the Islamic International University Malaysia. They searched google for keywords - Barbara Gray Gricar.

Originally posted by Politigal Not that it amounts to a hill of beans, but a visitor read my googlepages on the case yesterday for approx 23 minutes from Kuala Lumpur at the Islamic International University Malaysia. They searched google for keywords - Barbara Gray Gricar.

BG is apparently a prolific author and world traveller. MOO

[Tree_of_Life]

Originally posted by Politigal [*]Not that it amounts to a hill of beans, but a visitor read my googlepages on the case yesterday for approx 23 minutes from Kuala Lumpur at the Islamic International University Malaysia. They searched google for keywords - Barbara Gray Gricar. [/*]

Or they were searching through a proxy.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks [*]Couple of questions here.........

In the case of a missing person, does LE request that a will be opened and read prior to seven years passing in order to ascertain whether any recent changes had been made?

As far as I know, not, nor is it required in guardianship cases. The last one I am sure of.

Did LE immediately place a 'hold' on his mail with it going directly to LE prior to going to attorney or the designated 'power of attorney', LG, I presume.

Just curious...........

No, and it would a federal judge or federal magistrate to divert the mail.

[Cinderella]

Originally posted by Politigal [*]Not that it amounts to a hill of beans, but a visitor read my googlepages on the case yesterday for approx 23 minutes from Kuala Lumpur at the Islamic International University Malaysia. They searched google for keywords - Barbara Gray Gricar. [/*]

So what if Barbara Gray Gricar did read that. It doesn't surprise me. She is still trying to find Ray also. If she didn't read it then I would start to wonder. Let her have her privacy.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks [*]

How can it then be concluded that a full investigation has taken place?

Surely if a will was found to have been written let's say a month before disappearance it could indeed be of interest to LE.
Since there were no children who were minors, guardianship would not be a question in RG's case.

LG is currently the "guardian of the estate" of RFG. That has nothing to do with his will and means that she administers RFG funds on his behalf, i.e, makes sure his taxes are paid, files the proper paperwork with the bar association, invests his funds.

That has nothing to do with any will. As I've pointed out, until such time as RFG is declared dead, found to be dead, who inherits has nothing to do with this.

I was guardian of my father for more than two decades, while he was alive; I inherited nothing until he died. During that time, my signature, as guardian, appeared on his bank accounts, his tax returns, et c. I received and legally opened all mail for him.

Why wouldn't the family of the missing person be responsible for the forwarding of all incoming mail? Surely if the person is no longer at a certain address, the person who is living in a house the missing person had lived in wouldn't be in charge. If that person moved, are we then to assume that because that is the missing person's address, all mail would still go to that address, with the new resident then responsible for it?
JMO [/*]

No, LG, as guardian, is responsible for all of that.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila [*]

LG is currently the "guardian of the estate" of RFG. That has nothing to do with his will and means that she administers RFG funds on his behalf, i.e, makes sure his taxes are paid, files the proper paperwork with the bar association, invests his funds.

That has nothing to do with any will. As I've pointed out, until such time as RFG is declared dead, found to be dead, who inherits has nothing to do with this.

I was guardian of my father for more than two decades, while he was alive; I inherited nothing until he died. During that time, my signature, as guardian, appeared on his bank accounts, his tax returns, et c. I received and legally opened all mail for him.



No, LG, as guardian, is responsible for all of that. [/*]

But JJ, your Dad didn't disappear under strange circumstance. If RG didn't walk away and someone killed him, there could be a reason in the will. Like a lot of money that someone found out about, that they needed, and thought they would get it even if not dead, only suspected suicide. Someone no longer in the will or he was going to take out of the will. He disappears before that can be done.

A lot of the true crime books I read have people disappear and it is found out there were large insurance policies taken out in their name just a few months before they disappeared. And the person who disappeared them would have been the beneficiary. Those wills were checked before they ever found the body. It was after they found out who inherited, and then they put the pressure on THAT person who confessed and then found the body. I don't remember the name of the book I am thinking about but there were 2 large policies taken out on his life.

[tonyGricar]

Some strong assumptions seem to be coming out of this discussion. To me, the only way pertinent documents wouldn't be turned over is if people were being uncooperative.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by sherrijean981 [*]

But JJ, your Dad didn't disappear under strange circumstance. If RG didn't walk away and someone killed him, there could be a reason in the will. Like a lot of money that someone found out about, that they needed, and thought they would get it even if not dead, only suspected suicide. Someone no longer in the will or he was going to take out of the will. He disappears before that can be done.

If RFG is declared dead, the will could, obviously, give a motive, but RFG hasn't been declared dead. Anybody in category might stage a suicide or an accident, but neither of things were staged, at least not clearly. A murderer would have to realize this, if an inheritance was the motive (which I doubt).

[Cinderella]

What about the cell phone records? Why are they still being withheld? I wish they would be released.

[Cinderella]

Originally posted by Politigal [*]Not that it amounts to a hill of beans, but a visitor read my googlepages on the case yesterday for approx 23 minutes from Kuala Lumpur at the Islamic International University Malaysia. They searched google for keywords - Barbara Gray Gricar. [/*]

Pgal, Sorry. I didn't read your post right the first time. Sorry for the post that I made about it.

[Politigal]

Originally posted by Cinderella [*]

Pgal, Sorry. I didn't read your post right the first time. Sorry for the post that I made about it. [/*]

no problem

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cinderella [*]What about the cell phone records? Why are they still being withheld? I wish they would be released. [/*]

I think we would ALL like to see at least a log released.

[Politigal]

For anyone local to Bellefonte -- what days does the city pick up garbage?

[Cloudbuster]

I know I would like to see a log realeased to confirm some of the calls I believe that came in and went out. I don't think there is a whole lot but would find it interesting and sorta like a confirmation. Personally its a phone log I would like to see and it's not RG's. Make tha 2 logs Id like to see.

[Cinderella]

Lyrics to The Twist

http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/heart...s/thetwist.htm

The Twist

Come on baby let's do the twist
Come on baby let's do the twist
Take me by my little hand and go like this
Ee-oh twist baby baby twist
Oooh-yeah just like this
Come on little miss and do the twist

My daddy is sleepin' and mama ain't around
Yeah daddy is sleepin' and mama ain't around
We're gonna twisty twisty twisty
'Til we turn the house down
Come on and twist yeah baby twist
Oooh-yeah just like this
Come on little miss and do the twist

Yeah you should see my little Sis
You should see my my little Sis
She really knows how to rock
She knows how to twist
Come on and twist yeah baby twist
Oooh-yeah just like this
Come on little miss and do the twist
Yeah rock on now
Yeah twist on now
Twist.


It was a big hit then and people are still twisting.

[J. J. in Phila]

This one might be more apropos, the tune, but not the lyrics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3iog...eature=related

The original video is better, but this is still vintage. A bit retro, but I have a feeling so are some elements of this case.

Friday is my day to to be cryptic.