What Did Ray Witness?

[Cinderella]

This is a quote taken from J. Karen Arnold's website.

On Monday, April 18, 2005, the DA staff were gathered together for an in-office meeting with a County official. Ray was supposed to testify that morning as a witness on some matter which had come up in a case being handled by the ADA who was assigned to drug cases brought by the Office. There was some anticipation that he might still show up in time to testify at the hearing. We were advised that if he did not appear, the County would be offering group counseling to DA staff employees by a provider firm from Harrisburg.
End
---------------------------------------------------------

I am wondering what Ray a witness to? Did Ray want to testify? Are there many D.A.'s that testify to matters concerning drug cases? Was this supposed to be kept hush, hush? Was this going to be a public hearing or closed hearing. If it was a closed hearing then hardly anyone would know. I would not want to testify at a drug case. I think that it would be very harmful.

Could this be what was bothering Ray? Was he staying away from the Courthouse because he didn't want to testify and also be subpoenaed?

Was this information leaked out? If so, who leaked it. I seems likely that it would have to been someone in the D.A.'s office who leaked it.

Was Ray staying at home? Maybe not, since he might be afraid that his life was in danger and PF's as well. Is that why he met her in the park. In the park, he was out in the open where everyone could see him. I would think that it would be harder for someone to harm him out in the open instead of somewhere else.
Is that what was bothering him. He knew that if he testified that he was a marked man?

Did he maybe hastily put something on his laptop that stated that if he went missing or something happened to him that such and such were involved? If the information that he was to testify was put out there, who gave the information to someone else? Did someone think that he had this information on his laptop?
Did he remove the laptop so that no one might be going to his house to get it and harming PF?

Even though he did not testify, did he go into the witness protection program because sources knew that he was going to testify? It is my belief that D.A. don't really witness these things and have to testify.

This really bothers me and I think that his life was at stake. Is that why even though he knew that he would be on vacation at the time of the Vargas case, that he said that he didn't know if he would still be around. He didn't come out and say to Brown, well this is when I take my vacation. He just said that he didn't know if he would still be around or something to that effect.

Please try to help me on this point. I know that I haven't put the exact quotes as to what Ray said to Judge Brown.

Can someone fill us in on this case?

Isn't if funny that they stated that if Ray did not testify that they would have group counseling. Did they know that Ray was going to testify and if he didn't then something major happened to him. Then the word got out.

Did Ray put the book on Mark Smith's desk just in case that he didn't testify because Ray knew that if he was alive then he could take the book back? Did Ray know that he was a marked man?
Either way, if he testified or not, it is very likely that they would want to take him out due to what he knew.

Also did Ray have this information on his laptop so that he could access all the information that he wanted to say in court?

JMO, MOO

I think that we really need to research this.

Did Taji Verbal Lee know that this happened because someone double crossed Ray and leaked this information. They had Taji Verbal Lee on trial for doing wrong, but did he mean that they lied to people about not knowing what happened to Ray? Does Taji Verbal Lee know what happened to Ray?

[J. J. in Phila]

The case he was arguing on 4/18/05, or suppose to be arguing, was a hit and run. JKA was only person who suggested he'd be a witness in a drug case.

I'm lost on that, but it doesn't appear to be high profile.

[Cinderella]

If it wasn't a drug case then why did she say that it was a drug case?

I don't know anything about the hit and run, only about the young girl who pulled out in front of a motorcycle. I know that there were alot of emotions about this case since the girl was young. Actually I felt that she should have gotten some time out of it, but apparently she didn't.

If it was a hit and run case as you suggest, you mean to tell me that Ray witnessed it? I doubt it.

JMO, MOO

Where did you happen to find this information that it was a hit and run?

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cinderella [*]If it wasn't a drug case then why did she say that it was a drug case?

I don't know anything about the hit and run, only about the young girl who pulled out in front of a motorcycle.

I know that there were alot of emotions about this case since the girl was young. Actually I felt that she should have gotten some time out of it, but apparently she didn't.

My bad, it was the motorcycle case; I remembered it was a death involving a motor vehicle. I think it was homicide by vehicle and she was acquitted (though there was a moving violation).

I realized that it was the motorcycle case when I woke up.

It's interesting that she said, "...witness on some matter which had come up in a case being handled by the ADA who was assigned to drug cases brought by the Office. " It sounds like he was testifying about something that happened in the courtroom, or in the assignment of the case, not about what a defendant or witness saw.

The only things that I could figure were something relating to evidence, including probable cause (unlikely), or a contempt citation against the ADA. Those are guesses.

[Cinderella]

I would like to see this issue resolved. I don't want to take guesses. Does anyone know anything about what he was to be a witness to? If not, how could we find out? If anyone knows and speaks to JKA, I wish that they would ask her about this.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cinderella [*]I would like to see this issue resolved. I don't want to take guesses. Does anyone know anything about what he was to be a witness to? If not, how could we find out? If anyone knows and speaks to JKA, I wish that they would ask her about this. [/*]

I'd like to see it resolved too. You might try PB, but I've never seen any reporting of it.

It could have been in chambers.

[tonyGricar]

This has been covered before, but I'm going to guess and say that it was deleted.

He wasn't witness to any nefarious event that would put his life in danger. There was a possible conflict of interest that had arisen in the case and iirc, Ray was to be present to either testify that there is no conflict and/or to be there as a possible 2nd chair for a portion of the trial due to that possible conflict. I seem to think it was a simple marijuana possession case. Nothing major iirc.

[gstickley]

TG: Can you tell me why you'd want anonymous posters on this message board to contact you with their personal info so you could give it to LE if they ever asked for it?

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by gstickley [*]TG: Can you tell me why you'd want anonymous posters on this message board to contact you with their personal info so you could give it to LE if they ever asked for it? [/*]

Gee, GS, I guess you don't understand the meaning of the word "volunteer?"

We just know you wouldn't do it.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by tonyGricar [*]This has been covered before, but I'm going to guess and say that it was deleted.

He wasn't witness to any nefarious event that would put his life in danger. There was a possible conflict of interest that had arisen in the case and iirc, Ray was to be present to either testify that there is no conflict and/or to be there as a possible 2nd chair for a portion of the trial due to that possible conflict. I seem to think it was a simple marijuana possession case. Nothing major iirc. [/*]

Okay, this was the first I've ever heard of the reason.

It does make sense.

[Cinderella]

Thanks Tony.

I am totally devastated that Tony is leaving the boards! There are some posters who really cross the line and I wish that they had never come here. He is exactly right. Unless you have gone through it...you have no idea how horrible it is.
My exhusbands entire aorta dissected for the second time 10 days ago. His right kidney has died. He has blood clots in his lungs. Two years ago on the night when hurricane Katrina hit he spent 14 hours in surgery having his dissected aorta repaired. When they filled his body back up with blood hundreds of blood clots went to his brain. It has been a very difficult journey to the say the least.
Every day I come home from the hospital hoping that their will be some good and accurate news about Ray. All I read is ...mostly crap and innuendo....and bickering. Some posters seem to know it all! So I guess the rest of us need not be here. UTR I would not accept your apology for accusing me of being a liar if you handed it to me on a silver platter. You are a fool.
If my son were here now on this his 28th birthday he would say Mom....why are you wasting your time? Life is short. Don't let people get under your skin. Do what is most important for those who are the most important.
Politigal you have spewed more negativity onto this board than I can even fathom. We were better off without you. Your little fits of erase what I posted were utterly ridiculous and hopefully totally embarassing for you. I hope some day you change. For the pain that you cause is unbelievable. You are not trying to help. Words are like toothpaste...once they come out you can not put them back in again.
I will pray for all of you. Just like Tony I have had enough. Good bye and good night. I will not ever read these boards again.

[Cinderella]

TOTG,

I am very saddened to hear that you won't be posting on the boards anymore. If eveyrone is leaving, where does that leave Ray?

I have always thought that your posts were terrific. I looked forward to them and also pming you. I wish eveyrone that is leaving would consider staying. There are a lot of tensions and emotions of this case. I am glad that I know to know you. I am saddened about your ex-husband.

I love to hear about your love of shopping. We have always agreed about 1 person who needs to be put away form life.

Sometimes you just have to ignore or put certain people on ignore. I have never questioned anything that you have said to me because I have always believed you to be trust worthy and truthful. Please Stay.

Cind.

[J. J. in Phila]

TOTG, I would hope that you would stay. I understand why you would want to leave, however, considering what has gone on with a few posters.

I, had a death in my family recently, so I hope your ex-husband will recover.

PS: I now have one poster on my ignore list.

[day2day]

TOTG..
I hate to hear that you are also leaving. I for one will never allow anyone to make me stop posting. We ALL have something to add here. I think sometimes we forget this is not "OUR" board..this is Mr. Gricar's..and right now he needs ALL the help he can get.

I will say a prayer for your ex-hubby.

[slaphappy]

tiredofthegruff,

I also want you to stay. I'm a newbie here (as far being a poster) Ray needs you on board. There just isn't enough people taking up Ray's cause. Most people I have talked to around my area don't even remember Ray vanishing. They just give me quizzical looks. Honestly, when it first happened, Ray was talked about....maybe for the first month or so. Then nothing, because alot of the media kept throwing the walk-a-way or suicide theory out to the public. Interest soon dwindled. "Why care if a grown man wants to kill himself or walk-a-way?" He needs us!


I'm not sure what the dynamics of some of the posters relationships are, but I assure you that I am not here to argue or to cause trouble. Just as surely, some posters are here because they care about Ray. You might be the one voice, the one theory yet to come that may solve this. What if you are?

[slaphappy]

It's hard to tell if Ray saw something, heard something, or suspected something. Tony cleared up the last possible theory (the marijuana case). Doesn't mean though there wasn't something else. ( Although this has NO BEARING on Ray's case; Jonathon Luna comes to my mind .... Is the FBI still pushing for suicide on that one? He was murdered for a reason. 36 stab wounds! Why on earth is the FBI trying to get a suicde label on that one?)

I know that Tony said that some of these theories hurt family members and are hard to read. Some are so outlandish, they are laughable (including mine) But something happened to Ray Gricar. Not sure about the rest of you, so can't speak for you, but I am just a lady sitting comfortably at my desk. None of my family members have vanished (except for my brother last year for about 30 hrs, it was very emotional and scary. But we had resolution) None of my family members have ever walked-a-way. None have committed suicide. I cannot honestly put myself in Ray Gricar's family's shoes. The not knowing has to be the most awful feeling in the world. So I hope that Ray's family can see that, though some of these theories are hard to stomach, most of us do care, and are trying to help find a resolution for their sad mystery.

[Cinderella]

For some reason, I believe the answer has to be in what he was going to testify about. I still would like to really know about this.

[slaphappy]

Originally posted by Cinderella [*]For some reason, I believe the answer has to be in what he was going to testify about. I still would like to really know about this. [/*]

Cinderella,

Do you think it's possible that the laptop was just a red herring? In your mind is there a chance that the mini cooper was parked by the SOS by someone other than Ray? The phone being turned off could have just been Ray not wanting to be disturbed. It also could have been turned off by the person who parked the car. Afterall he (the man who parked the mini cooper) couldn't answer it if it rang anyway. By placing some of Ray Gricar's items at the SOS, it made it look like he had been there.


I'm so afraid that something horrible happened and whoever did it made sure that Ray would never be found. There are still some very evil and POWERFUL criminals with CONNECTIONS . Just wanted to know your opinion. Thanks

[Cinderella]

I believe someone other than Ray could have driven the car to the SOS. I think that they would have to have knowledge that Ray went there from time to time. Ray could have also driven the Mini there. To me the SOS is in a somewhat secluded place, but still some people could witness something. If Ray was meeting someone maybe he wanted to go to the SOS for that reason. Maybe he thought that he would be safe.

I feel that this case deals with either Ray disappearing by his own free will, witness protection program, or someone that knew very many details about Ray's life. Like where he frequented, that his brother committed suicide by drowning, that his brother went to a place with water, etc.

I thought that Ray or his office was receiving threats before he disappeared.

I don't buy %100 into the people who saw him in Lewisburg. Why didn't anyone see him park his car? Why didn't anyone see him get out of his car? Why didn't the dogs track him to the SOS or the park.

If Ray did drive the mini there, I think that Ray was meeting someone, but I don't think that he felt that secure with meeting that person.

I would like to know some true answers such as did Ray really go to Huntingdon the day before, and if so what was he doing. You would think that between going to Huntingdon and back to Bellefonte and then to the SOS that the car would need gas. Did Ray usually get gas at a special place? When was the last time that he got gas. If I am correct, Sheetz and Uni-marts have surveillance camera's, at least I think they do. I also feel that if LE would release a little more information that this case might be solved.

I also know that PF told different stories about the am or the paper misquoted her. I have yet to find out what was true that morning. I can understand in a way of no one seeing him that Thursday evening, but since he didn't personally e-mail his staff, one wonders if he did go home Thursday night.

I also wish that LE would question JL's alibi. As I heard that a person lied for him and told him that he would not lie again. I think that someone stated that JL gave BJL an alibi. They may have been together and with Ray.

Just my feelings.

I just found the Ray Gricar thread a few days ago and skimmed some of the posts when I came across this post.

I believe there are powerful people whether it be mafia or other people that have the connections to do such a crime and to execute it so perfectly. I think RG was a big threat to whoever done this and these people felt he needed to be take out of the equation.I also believe the laptop was just a non important object thrown in that area just so the search would stay in that area and that is also why the car was also parked there .

I also believe RG did not drive the car there he was probably already taken care of before the car even arrived at the sos .

[slaphappy]

Originally posted by nappy [*]I just found the Ray Gricar thread a few days ago and skimmed some of the posts when I came across this post.

I believe there are powerful people whether it be mafia or other people that have the connections to do such a crime and to execute it so perfectly. I think RG was a big threat to whoever done this and these people felt he needed to be take out of the equation.I also believe the laptop was just a non important object thrown in that area just so the search would stay in that area and that is also why the car was also parked there .

I also believe RG did not drive the car there he was probably already taken care of before the car even arrived at the sos . [/*]

Nappy,

I don't know very much about modern day mafia. (is that what they're still called?) Money is the root of all evil (imo) If an outfit thought that Ray Gricar was going to get in the way of their money making endeavors? I just don't know?

[Cinderella]

Welcome Nappy,

Nice to have you join us. The more posters that we have, we more chances that we have of finding out what happened to Ray.

I agree with your scenario. Ray looked like he was very frightened on the picture. I believe he knew that someone was after him. I also wonder if we will ever know what happened to him.

This might be terrible, but I wondered if they tested any of the ashes. Do you think that that could have been all that remained of him. I know that is terrible, but that is what I was wondering.
Maybe whoever left a message. LE is afraid to do anything with this case as they might be next, at least that is what I get the impression of. I truly believe that someone on the inside of the courthouse had to help the killer in some way.

Books and laptops don't have legs.

I personally feel that PF and JKA know more than they are saying because of fear.

JMO

Please keep posting.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by nappy [*]I just found the Ray Gricar thread a few days ago and skimmed some of the posts when I came across this post.

I believe there are powerful people whether it be mafia or other people that have the connections to do such a crime and to execute it so perfectly. I think RG was a big threat to whoever done this and these people felt he needed to be take out of the equation.I also believe the laptop was just a non important object thrown in that area just so the search would stay in that area and that is also why the car was also parked there .

I also believe RG did not drive the car there he was probably already taken care of before the car even arrived at the sos . [/*]

WELCOME aboard Nappy!! Finally-your beginning on your post is what I too feel is a bingo. Except lp did serve a purpose IMHO. Also no need for much evidence at the mini cause IMHO he went with X in that car to talk. The scent dogs even seem to confirm that. I believe he was watched and was aware of it from the third house from the top. Can anyone point me to a 3rd house from the top?

Originally posted by Cinderella [*]Welcome Nappy,

Nice to have you join us. The more posters that we have, we more chances that we have of finding out what happened to Ray.

I agree with your scenario. Ray looked like he was very frightened on the picture. I believe he knew that someone was after him. I also wonder if we will ever know what happened to him.

This might be terrible, but I wondered if they tested any of the ashes. Do you think that that could have been all that remained of him. I know that is terrible, but that is what I was wondering.
Maybe whoever left a message. LE is afraid to do anything with this case as they might be next, at least that is what I get the impression of. I truly believe that someone on the inside of the courthouse had to help the killer in some way.

Books and laptops don't have legs.

I personally feel that PF and JKA know more than they are saying because of fear.

JMO

Please keep posting. [/*]

First thank you for the welcome !

I just wanted to say I never thought of the ashes in that way. The thoughts of the ashes that way are sad but if thats what they are the powers that be did that to make a example to the LE and to let them know this can happen again !

Originally posted by Cloudbuster [*]

WELCOME aboard Nappy!! Finally-your beginning on your post is what I too feel is a bingo. Except lp did serve a purpose IMHO. Also no need for much evidence at the mini cause IMHO he went with X in that car to talk. The scent dogs even seem to confirm that. I believe he was watched and was aware of it from the third house from the top. Can anyone point me to a 3rd house from the top? [/*]

Thank you for the welcome I just hope I can help !

[J. J. in Phila]

Hello Nappy!

Originally posted by nappy

I believe there are powerful people whether it be mafia or other people that have the connections to do such a crime and to execute it so perfectly. I think RG was a big threat to whoever done this and these people felt he needed to be take out of the equation.I also believe the laptop was just a non important object thrown in that area just so the search would stay in that area and that is also why the car was also parked there .

I couldn't rule out organized crime, but I don't know what the motivation was.

The laptop wasn't found until well after the searches were completed, and the drive was removed, before it was tossed.

I don't think anyone has used the laptop as proof RFG was in Lewisburg nor that it couldn't have been tossed at a later date.

I also believe RG did not drive the car there he was probably already taken care of before the car even arrived at the sos . [/*]

On that I have to disagree. Even if he was grabbed outside of the house, it doesn't explain the in route cell phone call, nor the lack of evidence of anyone else driving it, nor the evidence that he drove it, nor his scent being discovered in the parking lot, nor, last and least, the witnesses.

Something happened after he showed up. What?

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila [*]Hello Nappy!



I couldn't rule out organized crime, but I don't know what the motivation was.

The laptop wasn't found until well after the searches were completed, and the drive was removed, before it was tossed.

I don't think anyone has used the laptop as proof RFG was in Lewisburg nor that it couldn't have been tossed at a later date.



On that I have to disagree. Even if he was grabbed outside of the house, it doesn't explain the in route cell phone call, nor the lack of evidence of anyone else driving it, nor the evidence that he drove it, nor his scent being discovered in the parking lot, nor, last and least, the witnesses.

Something happened after he showed up. What? [/*]

First of all thank you for the welcome J.J!

About the cell phone call we know he made it to that point .

Imo there are ways to drive the car without leaving traces by a person who doesnt want to leave a trace I believe this was done by a person who has alot of experience at that.

as far as witnesses . witnesses can be bought!

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster [*]

WELCOME aboard Nappy!! Finally-your beginning on your post is what I too feel is a bingo. Except lp did serve a purpose IMHO. Also no need for much evidence at the mini cause IMHO he went with X in that car to talk. The scent dogs even seem to confirm that. I believe he was watched and was aware of it from the third house from the top. Can anyone point me to a 3rd house from the top? [/*]

Welcome to Nappy and Slap Happy tonight.

CB, We were talking about the word Devils and I thought I had seen it in connection to a motorcycle gang. I went to the FBI site where the have all the info on motorcycle gangs that are in the United States. I found that the major gangs have groups under them with different names. Each section of the US, Northeast, Southeast, Northwest, Southwest, etc, have a list of gangs, with some from the Southwest now in the Northeast and Southeast. Mainly I was concerned with PA, NY, NJ, MD, DE, WA, VA, WV, OH.

When researching drugs busts in PA, I have saw drugs and murders linked to these gangs. THe drugs were coming in from as far away as Mexico and AZ, OH, MI and IL, and states as far south as FL.

Anyways under Hell's Angels I foubd they have a group called Red Devil's and those 2 are listed in PA.

I didn't get to the site with the numbers of members, had to get off for a while.

I was also on a site that listed different mafia groups, with Italian and Russian being listed, and more. I just remembered it when one of the recent posts mentioned organized crime.

I am going to put FBI.com. as the website but I will go back and get the page link. Forgot to grab that this afternoon.

Here is the link:

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/ngic/violent_gangs.htm

[slaphappy]

J.J. ,

You commented to Nappy about the en route cell phone call. That doesn't prove that Ray was driving the mini cooper. He could have been forced to make that call while a passenger in another car. If this is a possible scenerio, I'm sure he could have been convinced to sound calm. The mini cooper could have arrived later. Or a passenger in the mini while Ray?

Not one single person saw him leave his house that day. None of the neighbors even.

[sherrijean981]

I want to apologize for all the typo's in my previous post. Still only typing one handed, left hand still not working right. I didn't see the errors in time to correct them.

[Cinderella]

Originally posted by slaphappy [*]J.J. ,

You commented to Nappy about the en route cell phone call. That doesn't prove that Ray was driving the mini cooper. He could have been forced to make that call while a passenger in another car. If this is a possible scenerio, I'm sure he could have been convinced to sound calm. The mini cooper could have arrived later. Or a passenger in the mini while Ray?

Not one single person saw him leave his house that day. None of the neighbors even. [/*]

Slaphappy now you have given me a thought. That call would have given the abductors much more time. PF might have called LE earlier if she didn't receive a call from Ray stating that he wouldn't be home in time to put the dog out. She didn't expect him home around the time that she was getting off work. He did not specify when he would be home. So she might have waited longer than normal to call LE.

[slaphappy]

Originally posted by sherrijean981 [*]

Welcome to Nappy and Slap Happy tonight.

CB, We were talking about the word Devils and I thought I had seen it in connection to a motorcycle gang. I went to the FBI site where the have all the info on motorcycle gangs that are in the United States. I found that the major gangs have groups under them with different names. Each section of the US, Northeast, Southeast, Northwest, Southwest, etc, have a list of gangs, with some from the Southwest now in the Northeast and Southeast. Mainly I was concerned with PA, NY, NJ, MD, DE, WA, VA, WV, OH.

When researching drugs busts in PA, I have saw drugs and murders linked to these gangs. THe drugs were coming in from as far away as Mexico and AZ, OH, MI and IL, and states as far south as FL.

Anyways under Hell's Angels I foubd they have a group called Red Devil's and those 2 are listed in PA.

I didn't get to the site with the numbers of members, had to get off for a while.

I was also on a site that listed different mafia groups, with Italian and Russian being listed, and more. I just remembered it when one of the recent posts mentioned organized crime.

I am going to put FBI.com. as the website but I will go back and get the page link. Forgot to grab that this afternoon.

Here is the link:

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/ngic/violent_gangs.htm [/*]

sherrijean,


Ok, now I'm getting goosebumps! Toward the end of your post you stated "Forgot to grab that this afternoon." Are you saying that you were on the mafia sites this afternoon?? Tonight I posted a question about poweful criminals with connections. Nappy feels that the mafia is involved . UndertheRadar agreed. And today before any of us posted anything about this , you were looking in to it!!

p.s. Sorry about your hand.

[Cinderella]

I remember reading it before that Ray prosecuted someone from a motorcycle gang. It was in the CDT archives.

Originally posted by slaphappy [*]



sherrijean,


Ok, now I'm getting goosebumps! Toward the end of your post you stated "Forgot to grab that this afternoon." Are you saying that you were on the mafia sites this afternoon?? Tonight I posted a question about poweful criminals with connections. Nappy feels that the mafia is involved . UndertheRadar agreed. And today before any of us posted anything about this , you were looking in to it!!

p.s. Sorry about your hand. [/*]

Sorry SlapHappy. UTR does **not** think the mafia was involved in any way, shape, or form with the disappearance of Ray Gricar! Just wanted to make that clear.

[slaphappy]

Originally posted by Cinderella [*]I remember reading it before that Ray prosecuted someone from a motorcycle gang. It was in the CDT archives. [/*]

Cinderella,

Are we still able to access those old posts? Isn't that a strange coincidence, though? Something in the air or what?

I hope you are feeling better! (did you find my other post to you?)

Well, Goodnight Cinderella. It's kinda late here

[slaphappy]

Originally posted by UndertheRadar [*]

Sorry SlapHappy. UTR does **not** think the mafia was involved in any way, shape, or form with the disappearance of Ray Gricar! Just wanted to make that clear. [/*]

UndertheRadar,


I am so so sorry That was cloudbuster that agreed with nappy. I never told anyone I wasn't a knucklehead sometimes! I guess I just got a little excited about the coincidence tonight. And then with sherrijean looking it up today ...... got carried away and wrote the wrong nic. That and it is kinda late here. Again, my sincere apologies.... especially when I know you are a stickler for getting facts straight!

Have a goodnight, UndertheRadar!!

slaphappy to slaphappy

Originally posted by slaphappy [*]


UndertheRadar,


I am so so sorry That was cloudbuster that agreed with nappy. I never told anyone I wasn't a knucklehead sometimes! I guess I just got a little excited about the coincidence tonight. And then with sherrijean looking it up today ...... got carried away and wrote the wrong nic. That and it is kinda late here. Again, my sincere apologies.... especially when I know you are a stickler for getting facts straight!

Have a goodnight, UndertheRadar!!

slaphappy to slaphappy [/*]

No problem at all, SH. It's a no harm, no foul situation.

But you are right. I am indeed a real stickler for getting the facts straight!

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by slaphappy [*]J.J. ,

You commented to Nappy about the en route cell phone call. That doesn't prove that Ray was driving the mini cooper. He could have been forced to make that call while a passenger in another car. If this is a possible scenerio, I'm sure he could have been convinced to sound calm. The mini cooper could have arrived later. Or a passenger in the mini while Ray?

Not one single person saw him leave his house that day. None of the neighbors even. [/*]

He could very calmly say, "Hello Patricia, this is Raymond. I won't be home to walk Fido and and I won't be back for a usually dinner at the Nitanny Lion Inn."

(He caller her Patty, FWIBLTB, the dog's name was Honey, and they didn't usually go to that restaurant.)
If you want to calmly set off alarm bells, that's the way to do it.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by slaphappy [*]



sherrijean,


Ok, now I'm getting goosebumps! Toward the end of your post you stated "Forgot to grab that this afternoon." Are you saying that you were on the mafia sites this afternoon?? Tonight I posted a question about poweful criminals with connections. Nappy feels that the mafia is involved . UndertheRadar agreed. And today before any of us posted anything about this , you were looking in to it!!

p.s. Sorry about your hand. [/*]

Yes I was looking at the FBI site in the morning. I have been reading about it for a while, also the PA Attorney General site was where I had started getting info about gangs in the drug busts. One was a motorcycle gang in lower SE part of the state, They are not a friendly group.

I also was sent a very large article on a Russian Mafia group that is Jewish. After reading the article I deleted it. It was very detailed but the dates only went to 2001/2002 and it was all over the US. I can imagine how it has grown since then. jmo