Testimony Tuesday, Nov. 3, 2009

[RootBeer]

Originally Posted by DeeJay

Oh, I dunno.....I've seen a good deal of marriages over many years, where the husband is 20 or 25 yrs. or more older than the wife.

So no, I don't see any signifigance in this being a factor in the MK case.

Maybe she wasn't attracted to men her age or visa versa.

I guess the strange part to me is her experiences with incest and then marrying a man old enough to be her father.

[5swab5]

Originally Posted by RootBeer

I guess the strange part to me is her experiences with incest and then marrying a man old enough to be her father.

Do we have ANYTHING to substantiate her claim of incest from 2nd grade to 7th...with 3 different men, except her word?

Were any of this guys ever hauled into Court?

TIA. I missed a bit of Dr. Logan's narrative.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Originally Posted by 5swab5

Do we have ANYTHING to substantiate her claim of incest from 2nd grade to 7th...with 3 different men, except her word?

Were any of this guys ever hauled into Court?

TIA. I missed a bit of Dr. Logan's narrative.

I didnt hear any proof other than from what this Dr. Logan said..surely there is a family member from her childhood who could corroberate these facts..maybe they were in order for the Psychiatrists to document this as factual. If this was true, then I think she did very well post 7th grade to cope, get educated and rise above it all.

Here difficulties became apparant long before bearing children, so cant blame postpartum depression for triggering her claims. However I am sure pregancies and child rearing did cause more pressures. I thank Gawd, most women dont become so obsessed with themselves that they feel the need to take everyone else with them..although she does have a history of failed suicidal attempts.

It is my experience dealing with repeat suicide attempts indicate a cry for attention, however her denying, hiding or excusing these accidents seem more like "Attention Seeking"...not so much crying for help. It seems to me, that when someone really wants to die...they make no mistakes..they make sure, and given her knowledge of drugs, and apparantly some science based education, she seemed to understand where not to cut ( arteries)??..Also most depressed suicidal people dont wish harm others, only themselves, that is to end their torment.

Michelle is one pitiful women, who needs to be put somewhere she can never hurt herself or anyone else again. That is why "Guilty but Mentally Ill" is more helpful for jurors to decide things as that would ensure she got psychiatric help plus encarceration for the rest of her days.

LMS

[5swab5]

Originally Posted by Lyndawitha"Y

I didnt hear any proof other than from what this Dr. Logan said..surely there is a family member from her childhood who could corroberate these facts..maybe they were in order for the Psychiatrists to document this as factual. If this was true, then I think she did very well post 7th grade to cope, get educated and rise above it all.

Here difficulties became apparant long before bearing children, so cant blame postpartum depression for triggering her claims. However I am sure pregancies and child rearing did cause more pressures. I thank Gawd, most women dont become so obsessed with themselves that they feel the need to take everyone else with them..although she does have a history of failed suicidal attempts.

It is my experience dealing with repeat suicide attempts indicate a cry for attention, however her denying, hiding or excusing these accidents seem more like "Attention Seeking"...not so much crying for help. It seems to me, that when someone really wants to die...they make no mistakes..they make sure, and given her knowledge of drugs, and apparantly some science based education, she seemed to understand where not to cut ( arteries)??..Also most depressed suicidal people dont wish harm others, only themselves, that is to end their torment.

Michelle is one pitiful women, who needs to be put somewhere she can never hurt herself or anyone else again. That is why "Guilty but Mentally Ill" is more helpful for jurors to decide things as that would ensure she got psychiatric help plus encarceration for the rest of her days.

LMS

I get the same feeling you do. And on this last "attempt"...seems yet another attention grabbing exercise.

The boys were small, why (SORRY for the queasy stomachs) make a showy "duck-taping" and only cut them on one side of their necks?

Why not chase down Sean? He even said she had the keys to the van. I'm not buying he kicked her and she quit. I have a sneaky suspicion all were supposed to live, she just cut too deep on Seth.

How would either have known...their eyes, mouths and noses were duct-taped. Would have been her word against a couple of little kids' word.

Hey, she could have been in the spotlight for months as they looked for the "mystery man" in the back of the van.

JMO

[Details]

Yeesh - enough on the engineers! We're not bad jurors just because there has been one or two that were. There have been plenty of other juries with engineers, where the engineer was all for guilty too. A bit of grounding in logic and detail oriented thinking is not a bad thing.

Now - a mystery book reader - that one would worry me in another trial - too likely to be looking for the twist that a fictional book would always have in it.

Depression isn't enough - it makes you kill yourself - not your kids. She's got nowhere near the record, thus far, to indicate any type of insanity of a variety that would place her so far alienated from the world of reason as to think that killing her kids was the right thing. Yates, yes, this case, no way - nothing thus far is remotely close.

[JazzyBell]

Originally Posted by Details

Yeesh - enough on the engineers! We're not bad jurors just because there has been one or two that were. There have been plenty of other juries with engineers, where the engineer was all for guilty too. A bit of grounding in logic and detail oriented thinking is not a bad thing.

Now - a mystery book reader - that one would worry me in another trial - too likely to be looking for the twist that a fictional book would always have in it.

Depression isn't enough - it makes you kill yourself - not your kids. She's got nowhere near the record, thus far, to indicate any type of insanity of a variety that would place her so far alienated from the world of reason as to think that killing her kids was the right thing. Yates, yes, this case, no way - nothing thus far is remotely close.

Hello, Details! Been awhile since I posted with you. I thought of you when I read the "engineer" post. Had to laugh out loud. Of course, you are right. Just because an engineer side-tracked the first PS trial does not mean you guys are bad jurors.

You are also right about depression. Mania drives people to kill - not depression. Now, if one is a manic-depressive and only takes meds for depression, that could lead to increasing the manic side - which does cause people to kill.

If she is manic-depressive, the doctor/s should have been treating the manic side as well, with something like lithium. Any word on whether she was/is being treated for both?

Jazzy

[birdwatch]

Originally Posted by 5swab5

I get the same feeling you do. And on this last "attempt"...seems yet another attention grabbing exercise.

The boys were small, why (SORRY for the queasy stomachs) make a showy "duck-taping" and only cut them on one side of their necks?

Why not chase down Sean? He even said she had the keys to the van. I'm not buying he kicked her and she quit. I have a sneaky suspicion all were supposed to live, she just cut too deep on Seth.

How would either have known...their eyes, mouths and noses were duct-taped. Would have been her word against a couple of little kids' word.

Hey, she could have been in the spotlight for months as they looked for the "mystery man" in the back of the van.

JMO

How could she let them live - to tell on her? They would know there was no mystery man to look for. Even the baby probably could have told on her.