10/14 thru 11/11

[Emerald]

Conform?

Bringing strangers to the apartment, walking around in front of the room mates guests, frequently interrupting others in the apartment with guitar and singing, cartwheels in the police station, essentially moving in with Raffaele moments after they met, etc.

Doesn't sound like conforming to me.

Is she a child with an unbalanced social moral compass? In which case everyone is completely wrong who put their professional reputations on the line with recommendations for Amanda's abroad studies.

~~OR~~

Is she the mature, intelligent adult?

Can't be both ways. The police interview was stressful, no doubt. It just does not meet the criteria as the brutal interrogation and forced confession of Michael Crowe.



JMO

[Franklin]

Amanda initially may not have been conforming to the interrogators. She may have thought she was in charge, leading them, or "helping them. I think there are many ways to interpret her "confessions" after that.

When Amanda graduates from College, she will likely be overqualified to be accepted for employment as a Law Enforcement proffessional. Many of the people in law enforcement are even less balanced and much less educated than Amanda. If she (college girl) would help frame Patrick, they (police) could just as readily plant evidence to make their jobs easier. (or in this case make their jobs harder as it turns out)

Their immaturity is evident in the wild theories that they propose. That parents who mortgage their home to pay for her defense after paying to send her to Italy wouldn't send her a few hundred bucks in allowance (which I am sure they did regularly) thus forcing her to kill her roommate for a few hundred dollars. That a college girl, who budgets her study time to pass finals, and who plans for a future wouldn't know how to sell her computer or work a little to get the rent. (although she would have just had her parents wire the money) While Rudy Guede had the history of poor planning and quick money snatching fixes.

Or the one about the vampires in Raphaels comic books. Meridith is the one who actually dressed as a vampire for holloween. One might just as well theorize that Meredith payed Rudy to act out the Vampire fantacy. It is obvious that she had a deep rooted and unquentiable lust for vampire role playing. (I am thinking like a boorish prosecutor now)

[Franklin]

Emerald, In the Michael Crowe case not all the boys were as brutally interrogated as Michael Crowe. One of them jumped in quite willingly and wove fantastic and intricately detailed stories, as if he were playing a role playing fantacy game of Dungeons and Dragons with the interrogators. It was, by the way the kid with all the knife collection and comic books.

I saw the video of 20y/o Roberto Rocha's false confession, and although the interrogators were primative and stupid, they weren't particularly brutal. I guess some people just aren't as deeply rooted in reality as others.

[Emerald]

Franklin, your theories are interesting, but I'm not buying for this case against Amanda.

It is her testimony, under oath in court which convinced me. Her very own attorney was asking the questions. He let Amanda ramble on and on, contradicting herself from paragraph to paragraph. Why an attorney would allow this from his own client is a mystery.

JMO

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Franklin

Amanda initially may not have been conforming to the interrogators. She may have thought she was in charge, leading them, or "helping them. I think there are many ways to interpret her "confessions" after that.

When Amanda graduates from College, she will likely be overqualified to be accepted for employment as a Law Enforcement proffessional. Many of the people in law enforcement are even less balanced and much less educated than Amanda. If she (college girl) would help frame Patrick, they (police) could just as readily plant evidence to make their jobs easier. (or in this case make their jobs harder as it turns out)

Their immaturity is evident in the wild theories that they propose. That parents who mortgage their home to pay for her defense after paying to send her to Italy wouldn't send her a few hundred bucks in allowance (which I am sure they did regularly) thus forcing her to kill her roommate for a few hundred dollars. That a college girl, who budgets her study time to pass finals, and who plans for a future wouldn't know how to sell her computer or work a little to get the rent. (although she would have just had her parents wire the money) While Rudy Guede had the history of poor planning and quick money snatching fixes.

Or the one about the vampires in Raphaels comic books. Meridith is the one who actually dressed as a vampire for holloween. One might just as well theorize that Meredith payed Rudy to act out the Vampire fantacy. It is obvious that she had a deep rooted and unquentiable lust for vampire role playing. (I am thinking like a boorish prosecutor now)

To quote the police when questioning Casey Anthony, "how is lying to the police helping?" Even in the US, it is not helpful to lie to the police during a murder investigation. How can you say that Amanda thought she was helping the police by lying to them?

Liars make rather poor law enforcement officers. Have a look at your own links regarding illegal practices by law enforcement officers.

I'm not sure what a "boorish prosecutor" is, but I doubt it's anything that exists outside of fiction.

[Franklin]

Replies to Jesters Comments

Amanda's reasons for staying in Italy have been that:
1. she wanted to help police solve the crime (not sure why a language student thinks she is a crime solver);.....................
...............It is impossible for Amanda to believe that Patrick was involved in the murder and then to radically change her beliefs to the opposite.

No, it's not impossible for her to believe that Patrick was involved and then to later believe that he was innocent.
She was being a good vigilante.

There is no way that the Italian police decided to use illegal, or unethical, methods to solve the murder knowing full well that people from all over the world would scrutinize every aspect of the case.

Yes there is a way. That's just your opinion. In New York a policeman raped a male Haitian immigrant in the police department restroom. Is there no way that could happen either? The Haitian was international after all. (I am aware N.Y. is not Italy)
But that's all beside the point because I am not claiming, as you already know, that unusual interrogations tactics were necessary for this crazy girl to make up all this stuff.

If you want to criticize the current investigation based on historical illegal practices, it would be necessary to demonstrate that Italian police had used illegal and unethical practices when investigating an international murder in recent years.

No it wouldn't be necessary. Utter nonsense. I am only going to criticise the current investigation based on their (the police) recent and present stupidity. I am using history as a guideline though to see what people are capable of in general. If I was trying to entertain you specifically, I could do a doctoral thesis on the subject, But I think you are just playing games. (Paper, Rock, Scissors to be precise)

It would be necessary to demonstrate that Italian DNA labs had a history of falsifying DNA tests,

Who's claiming any labs falsified DNA samples? Not me. I tend to think more that either the DNA is not relevent, or that an ambitious or lazy policeman created the DNA evidence weeks after the murder, to make the conviction easier. (Another vigilante like Amanda). If he falsified the evidence properly, the honest Lab would get the matches they are looking for.

You are welcome to believe, based on American studies and illegal practices, that the Italians are corrupt, but there is absolutely no factual basis for the belief. In fact, the opposite has been demonstrated.

Straw-man, No Lo Follow, convoluted logic. Possible INTERNET TROLL with many screen names. But so what.

that Italian police isolated 14 year old children for days and forced a false confession, or that Italian police put words in the mouths of young children in order to convict adults. There is no history of these problems in Italy

You say: "There is no history of these problems in Italy." You are claiming an educated knowlege of a fact which you haven't bothered to verify. Just type in a few key words on any of these subjects and you will allways find that people are the same everywhere. It only takes a couple of seconds. You are showing an unusual prejudice sometimes to think that people of different countries have such different psychological tendancies and profiles.
The Dimitri trial in Italy:
"a notorious court case which took place in Bologna, the Dimitri trial (more or less the Italian version of the infamous 1980's McMartin trial in California)."

How can you say that Amanda thought she was helping the police by lying to them?

As you already know, I am citing Amandas claim that she thought she was helping the police by framing Patrick. The same way a policeman sometimes thinks he is promoting and upholding justice by framing someone.

Liars make rather poor law enforcement officers. Have a look at your own links regarding illegal practices by law enforcement officers.

I agree, that's why I posted those links.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Franklin

Replies to Jesters Comments No, it's not impossible for her to believe that Patrick was involved and then to later believe that he was innocent.
She was being a good vigilante. Yes there is a way. That's just your opinion. In New York a policeman raped a male Haitian immigrant in the police department restroom. Is there no way that could happen either? The Haitian was international after all. (I am aware N.Y. is not Italy)
But that's all beside the point because I am not claiming, as you already know, that unusual interrogations tactics were necessary for this crazy girl to make up all this stuff.
No it wouldn't be necessary. Utter nonsense. I am only going to criticise the current investigation based on their (the police) recent and present stupidity. I am using history as a guideline though to see what people are capable of in general. If I was trying to entertain you specifically, I could do a doctoral thesis on the subject, But I think you are just playing games. (Paper, Rock, Scissors to be precise) Who's claiming any labs falsified DNA samples? Not me. I tend to think more that either the DNA is not relevent, or that an ambitious or lazy policeman created the DNA evidence weeks after the murder, to make the conviction easier. (Another vigilante like Amanda). If he falsified the evidence properly, the honest Lab would get the matches they are looking for. Straw-man, No Lo Follow, convoluted logic. Possible INTERNET TROLL with many screen names. But so what. You say: "There is no history of these problems in Italy." You are claiming an educated knowlege of a fact which you haven't bothered to verify. Just type in a few key words on any of these subjects and you will allways find that people are the same everywhere. It only takes a couple of seconds. You are showing an unusual prejudice sometimes to think that people of different countries have such different psychological tendancies and profiles.
The Dimitri trial in Italy:
"a notorious court case which took place in Bologna, the Dimitri trial (more or less the Italian version of the infamous 1980's McMartin trial in California)." As you already know, I am citing Amandas claim that she thought she was helping the police by framing Patrick. The same way a policeman sometimes thinks he is promoting and upholding justice by framing someone. I agree, that's why I posted those links.

Now Amanda is a vigilante? A dope smokin' vigilante? That's a new one.

Doctoral thesis? Really???

What is the difference between police falsifing evidence and police creating DNA evidence? None.

Let me assure you that I am no troll and I am not playing games. I find the suggestion offensive. Let the post count speak for itself.

If Amanda believes that she is helping police by lying, or framing an innocent man, then she deserves to be in jail. Furthermore, your suggestion that this makes her a suitable candidate for the corporate world or law enforcement is baffling.

[Franklin]

Jester Posted: Furthermore, your suggestion that this makes her a suitable candidate for the corporate world or law enforcement is baffling.

Kids will descend into the state described in the movie "Lord of the Flies" if left to there own devices. I know of an elementary school where the kids drove one of the kids to suicide. When a teacher put up a big sympathy card banner in the cafeteria for the kids to sign and express their condolences for the parents, most of the kids tried to out-do each other by writing comments on the card like "I will see you in hell" and "I'm glad you're dead". They were just normal kids but they were under emotional pressure to fit in to the cult by continuing to outdo each other to fit into what was this school society. And to avoid being the next in line for persecution. (the principal was criminally inept but was never fired)

Adults often will descend into a "Lord of the Flies" society too, but a high enough percentage of adults have usually progressed enough in emotional developement to prevent all hell from breaking loose. (except for in Pol Pots Cambodia and other exceptions)

These are the types of environments that Amanda would fit well into. Cambodia, Lord of the Flies, and many corporate pecking orders that I have seen. She has no scruples, and to Jester- Yes, you are right, she does deserve to be in jail anyway. I think Amandas Patrick accusation was just a reflexive instinct to "fit in" to what she thought they wanted. Her type is not so rare that another of her kind wouldn't eventually come together with her in a bizarre twist of fate. The other one (or ones) like her I am referring to are the ones who are throwing monkey wrenches into the machinery of justice such that no amount of speculating can shed light onto what really happened to poor Meredith.

Not all sociopaths are serial killers. There are also the types who "Just Don't Give a Damn" to quote from the movie "HUD" with Paul Newman. They seem to be well meaning enough, but they will drag you down all the same.

[Emerald]

Amanda made choices. She needs to be accountable for them. Good ones and bad ones.

Psycho babble does not undo the crime against Meredith Kercher. Amanda is not the victim here.

JMO