Government Run Healthcare Saves Healthcare Protester

[HeyHeyStupid]

Originally Posted by ninetoes

I have no idea, I just know it doesnt belong in a healthcare bill.

Oh really. Even my health insurance covers a nutritionist, if a doctor thinks it's needed. With the rates of diabetes, obesity and simply observing the TV ads for gastric band surgery, it seems nutrition is an important part of healthcare.

As is exercise!

[ninetoes]

Originally Posted by HeyHeyStupid

Oh really. Even my health insurance covers a nutritionist, if a doctor thinks it's needed. With the rates of diabetes, obesity and simply observing the TV ads for gastric band surgery, it seems nutrition is an important part of healthcare.

As is exercise!

Then let that nutritionalist counsel you on nutrition. But having the govt regulate the food industry as part of health care is a stretch. Good hygiene is also a part of healthcare, but I dont exect the govt to dictate how I wipe my butt, or what temp my shower should be.

[Limabean]

Originally Posted by HeyHeyStupid

iirc "We are what we eat." I am amazed about the resistance to education.

I'm not amazed. People want the right to be fat, which would be ok if it didn't cause heart disease and all kinds of other lovely things that everyone gets to foot the health bills for. People who don't want to have to pay for other people's health care should be jumping up and down cheering for this legislation, shouldn't they?

[Dustee]

Originally Posted by ninetoes

Imagine how big that menu will need to be? And vending machines?? All information has to be made available BEFORE purchase, so just putting the info on the label of the candy bar wont suffice. The information will have to be posted outside the machine, so you can see it before you buy that snickers bar.

Nutritional information has been on the Snickers label for quite some time now. And yet, people continute to buy and eat them. Many of them are sold in stores, where the label is visible before purchase. So I doubt putting the info on the outside of the vending machine will make any difference.

[ninetoes]

Originally Posted by Dustee

Nutritional information has been on the Snickers label for quite some time now. And yet, people continute to buy and eat them. Many of them are sold in stores, where the label is visible before purchase. So I doubt putting the info on the outside of the vending machine will make any difference.

Exactly. And fast food junkies will continue to eat fast food. IMO people are perfectly capable of thinking for themselves, dont need the govt forcing signs in their face telling them what's good for them. Those who begin their day with biscuits and gravy with a slab of bacon and a few eggs are going to do so, no matter how many times they are told it isnt good for them. Those who prefer to live a healthy life style will do so, even if the govt never says a word to them.

[Brat2002]

Originally Posted by ninetoes

Yep, I read the actual bill...not a summary...

pg 1561:

‘‘(viii) VENDING MACHINES.—In the case of an article of food sold from a vending machine that— ‘‘(I) does not permit a prospective purchaser to examine the Nutrition Facts Panel before purchasing the article or does not other wise provide visible nutrition information at the
point of purchase; and (II) is operated by a person who is engaged in the business of owning or operating 20 or more vending machines, the vending machine operator shall provide a sign in close proximity to each article of food or the selection button that includes a clear and conspicuous statement disclosing the number of calories contained in the article.

-------------

page 1513

‘‘(iii) SELF-SERVICE FOOD AND FOOD ON DISPLAY.—Except as provided in subclause (vii), in the case of food sold at a salad bar, buffet line, cafeteria line, or similar self-service facility, and for self-service beverages or food that is on display and that is visible to customers, a restaurant or similar retail food establishment shall place adjacent to each food offered a sign that lists calories per displayed food item or per serving.

------
‘‘(ii) INFORMATION REQUIRED TO BE DISCLOSED BY RESTAURANTS AND RETAIL FOOD ESTABLISHMENTS.—Except as provided in subclause
(vii), the restaurant or similar retail food establishment shall disclose in a clear and conspicuous manner—
‘‘(I)(aa) in a nutrient content disclosure statement adjacent to the name of the standard menu item, so as to be clearly associated with
the standard menu item, on the menu listing the item for sale, the number of calories contained in the standard menu item, as usually
prepared and offered for sale; and ‘‘(bb) a succinct statement concerning suggested daily caloric intake, as specified by the
Secretary by regulation and posted prominently on the menu and designed to enable the public to understand, in the context of a total daily diet, the significance of the caloric information that is provided on the menu; ‘‘(II)(aa) in a nutrient content disclosure statement adjacent to the name of the standard menu item, so as to be clearly associated with the standard menu item, on the menu board,
including a drive-through menu board, the number of calories contained in the standard menu item, as usually prepared and offered for
sale; and ‘‘(bb) a succinct statement concerning suggested daily caloric intake, as specified by the Secretary by regulation and posted prominently on the menu board, designed to enable the public to understand, in the context of a total daily diet, the significance of the nutrition information that is provided on the menu board;
‘‘(III) in a written form, available on the premises of the restaurant or similar retail establishment and to the consumer upon request,
the nutrition information required under clauses (C) and (D) of subparagraph (1); and ‘‘(IV) on the menu or menu board, a
prominent, clear, and conspicuous statement regarding the availability of the information described in item (III).

There's lots more.....

http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

IMO has absolutley NOTHING to do with healthcare reform, and should not be included in a health care bill.

This part of the bill assumes that people are incredibly ignorant. No, I have no idea how much zinc is in a candy bar, but common sense tells me it's junk food. When at a buffet, somehow I am aware that the vegetables are healthier than the desserts. Hmmm, where did I get this vast knowledge of nutrition? Kindergarten, maybe? If companies have to add all this information so we can read it before putting our coins in the machine, it will probably add to the cost of vending machines. I don't want to pay more for my afternoon sugar fix because out government thinks people are too stupid to figure out the difference between oranges and Oreos.

[Fairlady]

Originally Posted by ninetoes

BBM

Quite intrusive IMO. Quite an interesting section on financial incentives for companies who have and encourage "healthy employees". On the surface, that sounds great, unless you happen to be a few pounds overweight, so cant get hired because the company wants to maintain their "healthy employee" standards. Will companies have the right to force their employee's to go to the gym so many hours per week, since they are being encouraged to pay for gym memberships for employee's? LOTS and LOTS in the bill that leaves some doors open so wide you could drive a truck thru them.

I think Employers wanting to maintain their "healthy employee" standards, isn't anything new. E.G., I can remember, when smoking in the workplace was perfectly acceptable .... It isn't anymore. In MY State, it isn't acceptable to smoke in ANY public place. I can remember hearing about Employers wanting to insist their employee didn't even smoke at HOME !!

It really isn't anything new ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States

jmo

[ninetoes]

Originally Posted by Fairlady

I think Employers wanting to maintain their "healthy employee" standards, isn't anything new. E.G., I can remember, when smoking in the workplace was perfectly acceptable .... It isn't anymore. In MY State, it isn't acceptable to smoke in ANY public place. I can remember hearing about Employers wanting to insist their employee didn't even smoke at HOME !!

It really isn't anything new ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States

jmo

That doesnt make it right. Inch by inch we are being told what we can or cannot do in our own homes, our own lives. Thats nuts, IMO. Have everyone purchase their own insurance, take the employer out of the equation. IMO the employer has no right to tall me how I have to live my personal life.

[Fairlady]

Originally Posted by ninetoes

That doesnt make it right. Inch by inch we are being told what we can or cannot do in our own homes, our own lives. Thats nuts, IMO. Have everyone purchase their own insurance, take the employer out of the equation. IMO the employer has no right to tall me how I have to live my personal life.

JMO nine .... But I think EVERY Employer who is paying for employee healthcare has the right to dictate whether or not their employees smoke .... or eat cheeseburgers . I would doubt these lucky employees who are having their healthcare insurance paid for, are not going to want to pay for it themselves. Not at the rates being demanded by Insurance Companies today.

jmo

ETA .... I just wanted to add .... THIS from someone who used to be a very heavy smoker .... quit 13 years ago ....

[ninetoes]

Originally Posted by Fairlady

JMO nine .... But I think EVERY Employer who is paying for employee healthcare has the right to dictate whether or not their employees smoke .... or eat cheeseburgers . I would doubt these lucky employees who are having their healthcare insurance paid for, are not going to want to pay for it themselves. Not at the rates being demanded by Insurance Companies today.

jmo

ETA .... I just wanted to add .... THIS from someone who used to be a very heavy smoker .... quit 13 years ago ....

IMO, unless that employer is going to pay for my meals, they have no right to tell me what I can eat. I work for them, Im not their ward. Or telling me I have to lose 10 pounds or lose my job??? Thats nuts, IMO. We should not be enslaved to employers. Where do we draw that line? Can they tell me I cant drive a motorcycle because they are more dangerous than a car? Can they tell me I can't have a coke with my supper because it isnt healthy? Can they tell me I must drink skim milk instead of whole milk? Can they tell me I cant paint my livingroom red because it has been shown to provoke anger, and that may impact my job performance, or lead me to need mental health care? Can they tell me I must abort my unborn child because he/she is going to have serious health issues that they dont want to have to cover? Can they tell me I must get 8 hours sleep every night? Just how much control should an employer have over an employee?

[Fairlady]

Originally Posted by ninetoes

IMO, unless that employer is going to pay for my meals, they have no right to tell me what I can eat. I work for them, Im not their ward. Or telling me I have to lose 10 pounds or lose my job??? Thats nuts, IMO. We should not be enslaved to employers. Where do we draw that line? Can they tell me I cant drive a motorcycle because they are more dangerous than a car? Can they tell me I can't have a coke with my supper because it isnt healthy? Can they tell me I must drink skim milk instead of whole milk? Can they tell me I cant paint my livingroom red because it has been shown to provoke anger, and that may impact my job performance, or lead me to need mental health care? Can they tell me I must abort my unborn child because he/she is going to have serious health issues that they dont want to have to cover? Can they tell me I must get 8 hours sleep every night? Just how much control should an employer have over an employee?

nine .... You bring up some good points, and I would totally agree with you .... IF .... IF .... your Employer wasn't paying for your health insurance. I think THAT makes the difference. You said, in another post, we should "take the Employer out of it". I wonder, IF we did that .... how many people would be willing to pay these exhorbitant premiums ?? How many could afford it ?? The fact is, Employers are IN it, and I think it gives them SOME right as to question the health of their employees.

jmo

[ninetoes]

Originally Posted by Fairlady

nine .... You bring up some good points, and I would totally agree with you .... IF .... IF .... your Employer wasn't paying for your health insurance. I think THAT makes the difference. You said, in another post, we should "take the Employer out of it". I wonder, IF we did that .... how many people would be willing to pay these exhorbitant premiums ?? How many could afford it ?? The fact is, Employers are IN it, and I think it gives them SOME right as to question the health of their employees.

jmo

Take the employer out. Instead of paying health insurance premiums, increase wages by the amount being paid for insurance. Employee could use those wages to purchase insurance on their own. Any money used to purchase insurance should be able to be deducted come tax time.

[Deannalynn]

health reform passed!

[ninetoes]

Sad day in this country, IMO. Disgusting.

[Jumbo1]

Originally Posted by ninetoes

Take the employer out. Instead of paying health insurance premiums, increase wages by the amount being paid for insurance. Employee could use those wages to purchase insurance on their own. Any money used to purchase insurance should be able to be deducted come tax time.

Fine, then over the coarse of a few years your premium doubles & you can no longer afford it and, you would no longer have a group rate.....& we all know that the employer would gladly increase wages by the same amount of their health insurance coverage...sarcasm off!

[dref99]

Originally Posted by ninetoes

Sad day in this country, IMO. Disgusting.

What can be "disgusting" about joining the rest of the western world and accepting that all of a country's citizens have a right to affordable health care. Unfortunately this bill doesn't go far enough, but it will get improved.

It is hard to believe that a small % of the population doesn't believe in health care for all - they want to maintain one rule for the rich and one for the rest.

The time for "I'm OK Jack" is long gone - regardless of what you eat and what you weigh.

Interesting that you don't want any information on how to treat your body, but the people you support are full of telling women how they should treat their bodies. The latter is definitely somewhat "disgusting", and very sad that the amendment related to same was allowed to be put.

jmo

[Rayosunshine]

Originally Posted by ninetoes

Sad day in this country, IMO. Disgusting.

You must be very well off, or on medicare already. From an R.N.

[Rayosunshine]

Single mother of 2, a nurse, working full time, with health benefits that are affordable, hit by a drunk driver, back injury, 2 years later surgery, back to work in 3 months, pain so severe she is unable to do her job, company old her earlier on that she could take 6 months leave and retain her benefits, she decides to do this and writes a letter requesting the leave, company decides this is really her resignation and she is terminated. Her insurance cost while working $150.00/month, her insurance cost after company decides she resigned $575.00/month. Isn't that American, if it is, I can't say I am really too proud to be one. By the way, no she can't get Medicaid, her income was too high last year, yes, last year is the figure that is used to determine eligibility for Medicaid. Again, I am really not too proud at this time.

[ninetoes]

Originally Posted by dref99

What can be "disgusting" about joining the rest of the western world and accepting that all of a country's citizens have a right to affordable health care. Unfortunately this bill doesn't go far enough, but it will get improved.

It is hard to believe that a small % of the population doesn't believe in health care for all - they want to maintain one rule for the rich and one for the rest.

The time for "I'm OK Jack" is long gone - regardless of what you eat and what you weigh.

Interesting that you don't want any information on how to treat your body, but the people you support are full of telling women how they should treat their bodies. The latter is definitely somewhat "disgusting", and very sad that the amendment related to same was allowed to be put.

jmo

LOL the republican bill stunk too. If a woman wants an abortion, or if she wants a dozen of em, have at it. It really is none of my business. As for wanting information on how to treat my body....I am perfectly capable of getting any and all information I need without govt intervention.

We weight every bite we eat. never more than a 4oz portion of meat or poultry. Never more than 1/2 cup of startch, nor more than 1/2 cup of veggies per meal. We dont own a salt shaker, we never eat fried foods, catsup, mustard etc are not on our menu. No butter or margerine. Only whole grain breads, and even then, only a couple times a week. Only whole grain pasta's. Very little processed foods, and never prepackaged foods such as spaghetti sauces, lasagna, or whatever. If it isnt part of a heart healthy diet, we dont eat it, pure and simple. But I dont need the govt telling me not to eat it...I can make that decision myself.

[fiver]

Originally Posted by Rayosunshine

Single mother of 2, a nurse, working full time, with health benefits that are affordable, hit by a drunk driver, back injury, 2 years later surgery, back to work in 3 months, pain so severe she is unable to do her job, company old her earlier on that she could take 6 months leave and retain her benefits, she decides to do this and writes a letter requesting the leave, company decides this is really her resignation and she is terminated. Her insurance cost while working $150.00/month, her insurance cost after company decides she resigned $575.00/month. Isn't that American, if it is, I can't say I am really too proud to be one. By the way, no she can't get Medicaid, her income was too high last year, yes, last year is the figure that is used to determine eligibility for Medicaid. Again, I am really not too proud at this time.

Well gee, why didn't she sue the drunk driver and his/her CAR INSURANCE company for all the medical bills and other tort claims? Or the company that let her go instead of granting FMLA - isn't that a violation of federal law????

Oh that's right, it's easier to blame it all on the health care industry.

[ninetoes]

Originally Posted by Rayosunshine

Single mother of 2, a nurse, working full time, with health benefits that are affordable, hit by a drunk driver, back injury, 2 years later surgery, back to work in 3 months, pain so severe she is unable to do her job, company old her earlier on that she could take 6 months leave and retain her benefits, she decides to do this and writes a letter requesting the leave, company decides this is really her resignation and she is terminated. Her insurance cost while working $150.00/month, her insurance cost after company decides she resigned $575.00/month. Isn't that American, if it is, I can't say I am really too proud to be one. By the way, no she can't get Medicaid, her income was too high last year, yes, last year is the figure that is used to determine eligibility for Medicaid. Again, I am really not too proud at this time.

I will say, I will be absolutely floored if a quality health care policy thru the exchange costs less than $500.00/month. If the govt picks up 10 or 20% of that price, the individual will still be paying $400.00/month. In my opinion, of course.

[imacrusing]

If you want socialized health care..move to Canada..they HATE it..or England...they hate theirs too..I want to go to whatever Dr I want, hospital I want and when I want...I do not want the govt managing my health care..they cannot manage Medicare, Medicaid now..Did you watch the speciall on 20 20 the other night and the HUGE waste yearly they are payign too these people who bill them and they actually pay and when 2020 went to those locations..it was just a small storefront with no people there..just more fraud we are paying,...this new health care reform will be MORE TAXES to cover the fraud that will happen.

I am so against this...

[momof6]

Originally Posted by Rayosunshine

Single mother of 2, a nurse, working full time, with health benefits that are affordable, hit by a drunk driver, back injury, 2 years later surgery, back to work in 3 months, pain so severe she is unable to do her job, company old her earlier on that she could take 6 months leave and retain her benefits, she decides to do this and writes a letter requesting the leave, company decides this is really her resignation and she is terminated. Her insurance cost while working $150.00/month, her insurance cost after company decides she resigned $575.00/month. Isn't that American, if it is, I can't say I am really too proud to be one. By the way, no she can't get Medicaid, her income was too high last year, yes, last year is the figure that is used to determine eligibility for Medicaid. Again, I am really not too proud at this time.

Thats a sad story....I feel for that lady....But I also feel for the tax payers that have to carry every burden that comes along. Like the lady I knew that was on welfare and she took her children to the doctor for every sneeze. No kidding. The doctors finally had to talk to her. It was free to her, but we know the taxpayer was really paying for her visits to the doctor.

I don't understand how people can afford cell phones, sattelite dish, computer hookups, fake finger nails, ect. but they can't afford health insurance. I think people need to prioritize. I had 4 of my 6 children at home because my insurance was not very good at the time. Now we have a real good insurance. Not sure how long that will last, so am having teeth done while it lasts.

I agree we need some kind of medical reform......But not to be payed by the taxpayers.

[PoppySeeds]

Originally Posted by momof6

Thats a sad story....I feel for that lady....But I also feel for the tax payers that have to carry every burden that comes along. Like the lady I knew that was on welfare and she took her children to the doctor for every sneeze. No kidding. The doctors finally had to talk to her. It was free to her, but we know the taxpayer was really paying for her visits to the doctor.

I don't understand how people can afford cell phones, sattelite dish, computer hookups, fake finger nails, ect. but they can't afford health insurance. I think people need to prioritize. I had 4 of my 6 children at home because my insurance was not very good at the time. Now we have a real good insurance. Not sure how long that will last, so am having teeth done while it lasts.

I agree we need some kind of medical reform......But not to be payed by the taxpayers.

Have you seen the Discovery Health shows about "freebirthing" in Canada nad England, because of the problems they have with standard of care? I am so glad my insurance pays prenatal and post natal (mother and baby for the first 6 weeks) 100%. I would hate to think I was forced into "freebirthing" because I did not trust that my health care system would take care of me and my child.

[ninetoes]

"Heavier Americans Push Back on Health Debate "

“I thought, ‘Health reform? Yay!’ ” said Lynn McAfee, the director of medical advocacy for the Council on Size and Weight Discrimination, an advocacy group for heavy people. But Ms. McAfee said it was not long before her sentiment changed to the more sober, “Oh no, we’re being scapegoated again.”

"Two-thirds of all Americans are overweight or obese. In four states — Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee and West Virginia — more than 30 percent of adults are obese. In 1991, in contrast, no state had an obesity rate over 20 percent."

"And, according to the American Obesity Association, a research organization, poor minority women have the greatest likelihood of being overweight."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/he...icy/08fat.html

[LisaM22]

Originally Posted by imacrusing

If you want socialized health care..move to Canada..they HATE it..or England...they hate theirs too..I want to go to whatever Dr I want, hospital I want and when I want...I do not want the govt managing my health care..they cannot manage Medicare, Medicaid now..Did you watch the speciall on 20 20 the other night and the HUGE waste yearly they are payign too these people who bill them and they actually pay and when 2020 went to those locations..it was just a small storefront with no people there..just more fraud we are paying,...this new health care reform will be MORE TAXES to cover the fraud that will happen.

I am so against this...

yeah they hate it, not sure were you get your information

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWUzM_UY3Vo

[clara2]

I just wanted to add as a Canadian ,my family has never encounterd problems with our system.If I need to see my doctor ,I can get an appointment usually right away or within the week if he's busy.We get good timely care for free everytime.No paperwork is required,just hand over your provincial health card)Recently I had to go to emergency department and was seen and treated within an hour.Of course sometimes its busier than others (with those who tie up the system with sniffles and who could wait to see thier doctor or go to a walk in clinic)I have had referals for specialists that did not take long at all,but yes sometimes depending on the specialized care could take longer.
The only thing we pay for is prescrition drugs,dental and eyeware which is on hubbys work insurance(the company pays part of premiums)
we have a co-pay for those items 20% for dental,RX's pay up to max of 5.00.
We pay taxes in Canada for healthcare,and many other social programs ,and if I lost my job tommorrow,I still will have the same level of coverage.Our system is not pefect but pretty darn good for me.

http://www.diemer.ca/Docs/Diemer-TenHealthCareMyths.htm

http://bobaagard.blogspot.com/2009/0...ada-vs-us.html