European Liberals In Shock Over Obama's Failures

[Hey Paula]

EXCERPT:

“The US has been at war in Afghanistan for eight years – and it is losing. On this issue, Barack Obama is giving deliberation a bad name. He needs to make his mind up… Week by week, the administration’s muddle makes everything harder. What a godsend for the Taliban. In his speech in London this month, General McChrystal said, “Uncertainty disheartens our allies, emboldens our foe.” After months of wrestling with this problem, uncertainty is all the White House has got.”

President Bush might not have been loved in Europe, but at least he was feared by his enemies and strategic competitors and respected by US allies. With Barack Obama in the White House, the United States has succeeded in alienating key partners in Eastern and Central Europe by kowtowing to Moscow, has undermined morale in the NATO alliance by refusing to give a firm commitment to extra troops for Afghanistan, is viewed as weak by Nicolas Sarkozy in the face of Iranian aggression, and has relegated the transatlantic alliance to an extraordinarily low priority. Embarrassingly for the president, even the left in Europe are now beginning to question the Obama administration’s record after just nine months in power

Barack Obama is swiftly finding out that American global leadership is far more difficult than it looks, and takes more than a few flowery speeches in Strasbourg or Prague calling for world peace and apologizing for America’s past. As Obama will come to realize, US leadership is not a popularity contest, but about taking tough decisions in defence of America and its allies. So far, the president has only succeeded in undermining both.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ni...amas-failures/

[HeyHeyStupid]

Fear, what a 'wonderful' thing. Almost as 'good' as bombing for friends. Love your 'logic' btw. [/sarcasm]

[MercedesV]

And here I was thinking it was those European Liberals that awarded Obama the Nobel Prize. Must be some other European Liberals. And here I read today that thanks to Obama the US has regained the number one spot internationally ranked for people to come visit/due business with. Must be some other Liberals that did that too.

[flareon]

Originally Posted by Hey Paula

EXCERPT:

“The US has been at war in Afghanistan for eight years – and it is losing. On this issue, Barack Obama is giving deliberation a bad name. He needs to make his mind up… Week by week, the administration’s muddle makes everything harder. What a godsend for the Taliban. In his speech in London this month, General McChrystal said, “Uncertainty disheartens our allies, emboldens our foe.” After months of wrestling with this problem, uncertainty is all the White House has got.”

President Bush might not have been loved in Europe, but at least he was feared by his enemies and strategic competitors and respected by US allies. With Barack Obama in the White House, the United States has succeeded in alienating key partners in Eastern and Central Europe by kowtowing to Moscow, has undermined morale in the NATO alliance by refusing to give a firm commitment to extra troops for Afghanistan, is viewed as weak by Nicolas Sarkozy in the face of Iranian aggression, and has relegated the transatlantic alliance to an extraordinarily low priority. Embarrassingly for the president, even the left in Europe are now beginning to question the Obama administration’s record after just nine months in power

Barack Obama is swiftly finding out that American global leadership is far more difficult than it looks, and takes more than a few flowery speeches in Strasbourg or Prague calling for world peace and apologizing for America’s past. As Obama will come to realize, US leadership is not a popularity contest, but about taking tough decisions in defence of America and its allies. So far, the president has only succeeded in undermining both.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ni...amas-failures/

No one should be shocked at this. He displayed his lack of governing over and over again. He is getting a lesson as to the difference between talking and doing, so far he is failing that lesson. Considering the few crazy things he has done, maybe that isn't a bad thing.

[Snitch]

Originally Posted by MercedesV

And here I was thinking it was those European Liberals that awarded Obama the Nobel Prize. Must be some other European Liberals. And here I read today that thanks to Obama the US has regained the number one spot internationally ranked for people to come visit/due business with. Must be some other Liberals that did that too.

LMAO. Where do you read such garbage? You're not one of the NE peeps are you???

The Norwegians gave a Nobel Peace Prize to Jimmy Carter and his claim to fame was giving Iran our peeps (and our allies) as hostages. They also gave Al blowhard Gore a prize for increasing his personal net worth by 5000% by some manufactured fiction, should it be any surprise they give one to obama who hasn't done squat except have everything on his agenda fail?
He can't even get gitmo closed.

[momof6]

Originally Posted by HeyHeyStupid

Fear, what a 'wonderful' thing. Almost as 'good' as bombing for friends. Love your 'logic' btw. [/sarcasm]

And your reply was just full of logic.

[Hey Paula]

Originally Posted by flareon

No one should be shocked at this. He displayed his lack of governing over and over again. He is getting a lesson as to the difference between talking and doing, so far he is failing that lesson. Considering the few crazy things he has done, maybe that isn't a bad thing.

There are no lessons to be learned or teaching moments for BO to take from his failures because the corrective measures required do not fit his radical agenda. So, he will continue with his failed policies and indecisiveness, just as he does day after day, hoping to blame GWB, the insurance companies, CEOs, the US Chamber of Commerce, et al and hoping his loyal followers will continue "drinking the juice".

IMO

[Snitch]

Originally Posted by flareon

No one should be shocked at this. He displayed his lack of governing over and over again. He is getting a lesson as to the difference between talking and doing, so far he is failing that lesson. Considering the few crazy things he has done, maybe that isn't a bad thing.

I found it quite telling he was 'too busy' to attend the 20th anniversary of the fall of Berlin Wall (a huge speak of democracy) but wasn't too busy for golf, campaigning his little heart out for his loser candidates in NJ and VA or that all important date nite at the expense of the American taxpayer.

I would say the gig is up.

[snookums1]

Originally Posted by HeyHeyStupid

Fear, what a 'wonderful' thing. Almost as 'good' as bombing for friends. Love your 'logic' btw. [/sarcasm]

Or starting wars for peace.

[Patriot]

Week by week, the administration’s muddle makes everything harder. What a godsend for the Taliban.

And millions of American's share those same thoughts. Bring on '12, it can't come fast enough. Good article, Paula.

[flareon]

Originally Posted by Hey Paula

There are no lessons to be learned or teaching moments for BO to take from his failures because the corrective measures required do not fit his radical agenda. So, he will continue with his failed policies and indecisiveness, just as he does day after day, hoping to blame GWB, the insurance companies, CEOs, the US Chamber of Commerce, et al and hoping his loyal followers will continue "drinking the juice".

IMO

He will continue with his indecisiveness until he absolutely has to make a decision or the decision is made for him. That is usually what people who are over-their-head usually do. Maybe someone will step up and tell him they will take the blame if something goes wrong - that should move him a little.

He will always have to find the villain because his ideas aren't able to float on their own.

[flareon]

Originally Posted by Patriot

And millions of American's share those same thoughts. Bring on '12, it can't come fast enough. Good article, Paula.

But if he is like all of the other politicians, he will act completely different as 2012 approaches hoping that the voters have short memories. I would say he would start wasting money trying to buy votes, but he has done that from the start so who knows where he could get the money for that.

[Hey Paula]

Originally Posted by flareon

He will continue with his indecisiveness until he absolutely has to make a decision or the decision is made for him. That is usually what people who are over-their-head usually do. Maybe someone will step up and tell him they will take the blame if something goes wrong - that should move him a little.

He will always have to find the villain because his ideas aren't able to float on their own.

ITA, Flare.

[ninetoes]

Originally Posted by flareon

But if he is like all of the other politicians, he will act completely different as 2012 approaches hoping that the voters have short memories. I would say he would start wasting money trying to buy votes, but he has done that from the start so who knows where he could get the money for that.

Yep. Look for DOMA and DADT to suddenly take the front page and be repealed around 8/2012. Look for troops to start leaving Afghanistan around June/July 2012.

[HeyHeyStupid]

Originally Posted by momof6

And your reply was just full of logic.

Thank you. Seriously, after raining bombs on both Iraq and Afghanistan, what shock and awe, that the locals didn't pelt us with flowers.

[Hey Paula]

Originally Posted by ninetoes

Yep. Look for DOMA and DADT to suddenly take the front page and be repealed around 8/2012. Look for troops to start leaving Afghanistan around June/July 2012.

And obamacare won't take effect until 2013 even though the Country is in a health care "crisis". I wonder if he laughs daily at the gullibility of those who buy what he sells?

[MercedesV]

Originally Posted by Hey Paula

And obamacare won't take effect until 2013 even though the Country is in a health care "crisis". I wonder if he laughs daily at the gullibility of those who buy what he sells?

Democrats are actively pushing to have key elements of health care reform available in 10. Unless Republicans continue to obstruct until the next century.

[franker01]

Originally Posted by MercedesV

Democrats are actively pushing to have key elements of health care reform available in 10. Unless Republicans continue to obstruct until the next century.

Lord forgive those Dems for they know not what what they do!

[ninetoes]

Originally Posted by MercedesV

Democrats are actively pushing to have key elements of health care reform available in 10. Unless Republicans continue to obstruct until the next century.

LOL the vote is set for either tomorrow or Sunday, IF the dems can get 218 of their OWN party to vote in favor. So far, they dont have the votes. There are 260 Dems, and yet they cant get 218 of them to vote for their OWN bill?

As for key elements available in 2010, I would refer you to the healthcare board, where you can follow the link to an actual copy of what is being proposed. I think you may be a bit surprised at just what those "key elements" include, and just who they will "help".

[flareon]

Originally Posted by ninetoes

Yep. Look for DOMA and DADT to suddenly take the front page and be repealed around 8/2012. Look for troops to start leaving Afghanistan around June/July 2012.

It depends on what the polls say. He is so poll driven that the decisions will be based on that rather than what is more beneficial. No one will ever accuse him or this Congress of having political courage.

You are probably right about Afghanistan. The polls probably won't change unless there is some success and there won't be any improvement with the ham-handed way Obama is handling the command.

[flareon]

Originally Posted by Hey Paula

And obamacare won't take effect until 2013 even though the Country is in a health care "crisis". I wonder if he laughs daily at the gullibility of those who buy what he sells?

Except the costs. Aren't they front-loading the costs without any benefit?

It is amazing how people just fall in line no matter how preposterous the ideas are.

[ninetoes]

Originally Posted by flareon

Except the costs. Aren't they front-loading the costs without any benefit?

It is amazing how people just fall in line no matter how preposterous the ideas are.

Yes, costs (taxes etc) will start in 2010. SOME parts of the plan will take effect in 2013. MOST of the plan wont kick in till 2019.

[flareon]

Originally Posted by ninetoes

Yes, costs (taxes etc) will start in 2010. SOME parts of the plan will take effect in 2013. MOST of the plan wont kick in till 2019.

What is so funny is that they will raise the taxes which will make their out of control budget look a little bit better until the tsunami of costs come down the pike. It is all a shell game.

[HeyHeyStupid]

Originally Posted by MercedesV

Democrats are actively pushing to have key elements of health care reform available in 10. Unless Republicans continue to obstruct until the next century.

"We the people" could have single-payer tomorrow, with the Conyers Plan, 676.

Bi-partisan compromise, with those obstructionists? Meanwhile the health insurance lobby is laughing all the way to the bank.

[HeyHeyStupid]

Originally Posted by flareon

What is so funny is that they will raise the taxes which will make their out of control budget look a little bit better until the tsunami of costs come down the pike. It is all a shell game.

Paying for Iraq and Afghanistan is no game. And, that debt is no excuse for being last in the world on healthcare. IMO

[momof6]

Originally Posted by MercedesV

Democrats are actively pushing to have key elements of health care reform available in 10. Unless Republicans continue to obstruct until the next century.

I thought the democrats are in the majority......How can the republicans be to blame right now?

[Hey Paula]

Originally Posted by flareon

Except the costs. Aren't they front-loading the costs without any benefit?

It is amazing how people just fall in line no matter how preposterous the ideas are.

If the costs weren't front-loading, the CBO figures would have been dramatically different because it's the Medicare cuts and taxes on the insurance companies now that are building the funding for 2013. Nine is right re most of the plan not being in full swing until 2019. These delays and capital building have a positive (albeit false) influence on cost figures for CBO scoring and budgetary implications.

IMO

[MercedesV]

Originally Posted by HeyHeyStupid

"We the people" could have single-payer tomorrow, with the Conyers Plan, 676.

Bi-partisan compromise, with those obstructionists? Meanwhile the health insurance lobby is laughing all the way to the bank.

There was never going to be a bipartisan bill, never. Republicans planned on voting no no matter what the bill was and have said so. They planned to obstruct, delay and water down any bill, and try their best to defeat it by any means. Lying and distorting included. What is best for we the people doesn't even factor into it.

Was recently reading about the ton of money Lieberman has been receiving over the years from health care lobbyists. Which is why he is acting as he has over health care.

Single payer would work so well, but it will not get voted in. Wonder how many bonuses are being awarded for blocking health care.

[ninetoes]

Originally Posted by MercedesV

There was never going to be a bipartisan bill, never. Republicans planned on voting no no matter what the bill was and have said so. They planned to obstruct, delay and water down any bill, and try their best to defeat it by any means. Lying and distorting included. What is best for we the people doesn't even factor into it.

Was recently reading about the ton of money Lieberman has been receiving over the years from health care lobbyists. Which is why he is acting as he has over health care.

Single payer would work so well, but it will not get voted in. Wonder how many bonuses are being awarded for blocking health care.

I was just reading about how much Pelosi has received from insurance companies, pharma companies etc. Like I said, AARP is supporting the bill for a reason.

[HeyHeyStupid]

Originally Posted by MercedesV

There was never going to be a bipartisan bill, never. Republicans planned on voting no no matter what the bill was and have said so. They planned to obstruct, delay and water down any bill, and try their best to defeat it by any means. Lying and distorting included. What is best for we the people doesn't even factor into it.

Was recently reading about the ton of money Lieberman has been receiving over the years from health care lobbyists. Which is why he is acting as he has over health care.

Single payer would work so well, but it will not get voted in. Wonder how many bonuses are being awarded for blocking health care.

That would be some poetic justice, all those mega bonuses for insurance co CEOs and none left for congress critters.

[HeyHeyStupid]

Originally Posted by ninetoes

I was just reading about how much Pelosi has received from insurance companies, pharma companies etc. Like I said, AARP is supporting the bill for a reason.

If only the facts end where you would like, instead of with each member of Congress.

Health Insurance Lobby Supports "Bipartisan Reforms," Attacks Public Option

Please, be honest, list the $$$$$ by members of Congress. Numerical order would be nice. tia

[flareon]

Originally Posted by Hey Paula

If the costs weren't front-loading, the CBO figures would have been dramatically different because it's the Medicare cuts and taxes on the insurance companies now that are building the funding for 2013. Nine is right re most of the plan not being in full swing until 2019. These delays and capital building have a positive (albeit false) influence on cost figures for CBO scoring and budgetary implications.

IMO

Absolutely and was done intentionally to disguise the real cost of this debacle. It is amazing how they have taken a problem and are trying to make it so much worse.

[HeyHeyStupid]

Originally Posted by flareon

Absolutely and was done intentionally to disguise the real cost of this debacle. It is amazing how they have taken a problem and are trying to make it so much worse.

Your math regarding healthcare is nearly on par with your math on Iraq. In the words of the Big Dawg ......

[Hey Paula]

Originally Posted by flareon

Absolutely and was done intentionally to disguise the real cost of this debacle. It is amazing how they have taken a problem and are trying to make it so much worse.

"Never let a crisis go to waste". And if you want to control much of the Nation's wealth, create one, LOL. Since BO has taken office, the government controls banks, insurance companies, auto mfrs, and if he has his way, health care; the latter being the most menacing and dangerous since, from control of our health care, the government will control every aspect of our lives.

And he has gone from dictating salaries and bonuses for employees/CEOs of institutions who took government funds (some against their will) to those he feels might need to be controlled.

If we allow this power-grab to continue, we will lose all of our God-given freedoms, chief among them free will, free speech and freedom of choice.

I have no doubt that much of what is being done is unconstitutional.

IMO

[HeyHeyStupid]

Originally Posted by Hey Paula

"Never let a crisis go to waste". And if you want to control much of the Nation's wealth, create one, LOL. Since BO has taken office, the government controls banks, insurance companies, auto mfrs, and if he has his way, health care; the latter being the most menacing and dangerous since, from control of our health care, the government will control every aspect of our lives.

And he has gone from dictating salaries and bonuses for employees/CEOs of institutions who took government funds (some against their will) to those he feels might need to be controlled.

If we allow this power-grab to continue, we will lose all of our God-given freedoms, chief among them free will, free speech and freedom of choice.

I have no doubt that much of what is being done is unconstitutional.

IMO

Seems an odd thread on which to enter your thoughts on the GWB administration. IMO

One more time, please share your thoughts on how the Patriot Act jives with freedom of speech or any other freedom. tia

[beattherap]

Originally Posted by ninetoes

I was just reading about how much Pelosi has received from insurance companies, pharma companies etc. Like I said, AARP is supporting the bill for a reason.

"Individuals connected to the industry have already given $210,000 to her campaign fund this year, according to data from the Center for Responsive Politics, compared with a total of $280,000 in the two years before the 2008 election, $87,000 in the two years before the 2006 election, and less than $50,000 in any cycle before that."...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/07/he.../07pelosi.html

buying access to pelosi doesn't necessarily equate to influencing her decisions, but it can't hurt.

[Dustee]

Originally Posted by HeyHeyStupid

Seems an odd thread on which to enter your thoughts on the GWB administration. IMO

One more time, please share your thoughts on how the Patriot Act jives with freedom of speech or any other freedom. tia

My memory must be fuzzy... Whose salaries did GWB put a limit on? Which car compainies did he take over?

As far as the Patriot Act, since Obama decided to extend it, it can't be all that bad, right?

[LisaM22]

Originally Posted by Hey Paula

EXCERPT:

“The US has been at war in Afghanistan for eight years – and it is losing. On this issue, Barack Obama is giving deliberation a bad name. He needs to make his mind up… Week by week, the administration’s muddle makes everything harder. What a godsend for the Taliban. In his speech in London this month, General McChrystal said, “Uncertainty disheartens our allies, emboldens our foe.” After months of wrestling with this problem, uncertainty is all the White House has got.”

President Bush might not have been loved in Europe, but at least he was feared by his enemies and strategic competitors and respected by US allies. With Barack Obama in the White House, the United States has succeeded in alienating key partners in Eastern and Central Europe by kowtowing to Moscow, has undermined morale in the NATO alliance by refusing to give a firm commitment to extra troops for Afghanistan, is viewed as weak by Nicolas Sarkozy in the face of Iranian aggression, and has relegated the transatlantic alliance to an extraordinarily low priority. Embarrassingly for the president, even the left in Europe are now beginning to question the Obama administration’s record after just nine months in power

Barack Obama is swiftly finding out that American global leadership is far more difficult than it looks, and takes more than a few flowery speeches in Strasbourg or Prague calling for world peace and apologizing for America’s past. As Obama will come to realize, US leadership is not a popularity contest, but about taking tough decisions in defence of America and its allies. So far, the president has only succeeded in undermining both.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ni...amas-failures/

Europe can always volunteer the troops they think are needed - I say bring the troops home

[LisaM22]

Originally Posted by Dustee

My memory must be fuzzy... Whose salaries did GWB put a limit on? Which car compainies did he take over?

As far as the Patriot Act, since Obama decided to extend it, it can't be all that bad, right?

nope, Bush just threw our money at them, no strings attached

[LisaM22]

Originally Posted by Zibar

No, that was five men who may very well be "liberal" but whose judgment has been questioned extensively. MO

so you think the Nobel prize is worthless and that it says nothing about anyone that receives it?