[11/5 - GUILTY] 10/26 to ........

[juliekan]

hi LLaFren and SayItAgain glad to see you here again


http://fldslegal.blogspot.com/2009/1...ard-is-it.html

The hypothetical making the rounds today is that if the victim was legally married (a very big assumption!) previously she would not be a "child."

aaaahhhh these lawyers, priceless! and i do mean that literally and ironically.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/us...gamy.html?_r=1

In a lengthy hearing on Tuesday without the jury present, Mr. Nichols said the state intended to prove from documents kept by the church that the 16-year-old girl underwent three days of difficult labor in the clinic, but that Mr. Jeffs, in a dictated memorandum, ordered that she not be taken to a hospital because social workers might question her about her relationship with Mr. Jessop.

I cannot "bold" that enough. That just screams guilty.

[walton]

Have you ever heard of so many excuses? Even Scott Pederson didn't have this many excuses.

The Prophet told them to do it.

They didn't know that it was against the law to take a child for a bride.
They didn't know that it was against the law to take more than one wife.
They didn't know that it was against the law to claim other peoples children as our own.

And yet they hid and lied. Not once. Not twice but as many as 30 times for some. Not just at the ranch but for a lifetime for some.

I am curious. Did Warren Jeffs have any legal right to marry any one? How about Rulon? Did any of them have a legal right to marry anyone?

When those that filed for welfare assistance filled out the paperwork did they say that the father of their baby was their "spiiritual husband"? or did they lie?

When law-enforcement asked who was the baby's daddy did they say it was their spiritual husband or did they lie? When Jessop filled out his tax papers at the end of the year did he list all his spiritual wives?

What the heck is Jessops lawyer thinking? oh wait. Jessop is one of the chosen ones...Big Surprise for all. As Boots said.... they aren't in Utah anymore.

What a jolt to the system this must be. No wonder Jessop sits and watches in awe.

[walton]

Who are we talking about?

I just found this photo gallery. http://www.gosanangelo.com/photos/ga...artner=popular

Looks like Stevens should lighten the load a bit.
He can mix and match from any case in the law-books and something tells me that he just isn't going to find any thing in any of those books that justifies this.

With all those law-books and even Raymond Jessops carry all I was sure I had seen those little cups that they hide the pea when they play the shell game.

Boy I just bet Willie is sweating bullets. Watching the $$ flying right on by day after day. His day in court will be coming. And he will have to count on Parker. lol

[texski]

thanks for the pictures. dear willie looks rather chubby, he would make a good santa.
one story says the trial should wind up thursday. did they mean today or next thursday>>??????

[Roux]

Originally Posted by walton

Have you ever heard of so many excuses? Even Scott Pederson didn't have this many excuses.

The Prophet told them to do it.

They didn't know that it was against the law to take a child for a bride.
They didn't know that it was against the law to take more than one wife.
They didn't know that it was against the law to claim other peoples children as our own.

And yet they hid and lied. Not once. Not twice but as many as 30 times for some. Not just at the ranch but for a lifetime for some.

I am curious. Did Warren Jeffs have any legal right to marry any one? How about Rulon? Did any of them have a legal right to marry anyone?

When those that filed for welfare assistance filled out the paperwork did they say that the father of their baby was their "spiiritual husband"? or did they lie?

When law-enforcement asked who was the baby's daddy did they say it was their spiritual husband or did they lie? When Jessop filled out his tax papers at the end of the year did he list all his spiritual wives?

What the heck is Jessops lawyer thinking? oh wait. Jessop is one of the chosen ones...Big Surprise for all. As Boots said.... they aren't in Utah anymore.

What a jolt to the system this must be. No wonder Jessop sits and watches in awe.

Speaking of welfare assistance and tax returns, I really wish that the G-men would investigate these crimes. Also the bogus government bids that won them contracts, subsequently resulting in forced child labor. These "white collar" crimes pale in comparison to the sexual abuse but might result in bringing down more FLDS. They need to pay for the scams perpetrated against tax payers, as well as the crimes against their children.

[walton]

Originally Posted by Roux

Speaking of welfare assistance and tax returns, I really wish that the G-men would investigate these crimes. Also the bogus government bids that won them contracts, subsequently resulting in forced child labor. These "white collar" crimes pale in comparison to the sexual abuse but might result in bringing down more FLDS. They need to pay for the scams perpetrated against tax payers, as well as the crimes against their children.

Roux I think that when they found that Bishops list they went over it and checked this name with those names in Utah. From what I understand they were not collecting assistance from Texas. But they might have been from other states.

The i's have been dotted and the t's have been crossed with that list.

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13711122

A personal crisis put Mark Shurtleff's political aspirations on hold, as the attorney general abandoned his bid for the Republican nomination for U.S. Senate on Wednesday to help care for a troubled daughter.

"The Senate race has to give. My family has to come first. My daughter has to come first," Shurtleff said.


I don't much care for Shurtleff but I think this is the smartest thing he's done in the last 4-5 years I've been reading Utah news. I hope that all goes well for his family.

[mrsmcgoo]

I recently read the book "Stolen Innocence" by Elissa Wall.

It was a very good insight into the barbaric lifestyle of the FLDS.

You guys probably already read it, but if you haven't, it is well worth getting.

[walton]

Originally Posted by mrsmcgoo

I recently read the book "Stolen Innocence" by Elissa Wall.

It was a very good insight into the barbaric lifestyle of the FLDS.

You guys probably already read it, but if you haven't, it is well worth getting.

This was a powerful book I agree. She has more back bone than any of the men I've read about from ShortCreek.

[LLaFren]

Originally Posted by juliekan

hi LLaFren and SayItAgain glad to see you here again


http://fldslegal.blogspot.com/2009/1...ard-is-it.html

The hypothetical making the rounds today is that if the victim was legally married (a very big assumption!) previously she would not be a "child."

aaaahhhh these lawyers, priceless! and i do mean that literally and ironically.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/us...gamy.html?_r=1

In a lengthy hearing on Tuesday without the jury present, Mr. Nichols said the state intended to prove from documents kept by the church that the 16-year-old girl underwent three days of difficult labor in the clinic, but that Mr. Jeffs, in a dictated memorandum, ordered that she not be taken to a hospital because social workers might question her about her relationship with Mr. Jessop.

I cannot "bold" that enough. That just screams guilty.

Thanks Julie...It's good to be back

My question would be, what would have happened, if the mother or child hadn't survived????

3 days of labor OMG, I can't even imagine that.

[walton]

http://myeldorado.net/ Today's latest

I had read somewhere that the Judge told the members of the Jury to bring an overnight bag.

I think we will know by days end. (Remember they are use to going until sometimes 7pm and later.)

If found guilty would they sentence him the same day? Or would they allow him time to get his personal and business things in order? Would they take his passport? Does he have a passport?

If he is found guilty, I hope they sentence him right away. And then I hope the next trial starts on Mon.

Would his other wives be charged of being accessory to the fact? Would they tack another charge on to Warren?

The lights are on in Texas. I am confident that those of the jury have been able to step step and kick over all the BS.

[walton]

Welcome back LLaFren

Do you think charges will be brought about to those that witnessed the whole 3 day labor thing? Wouldn't it be child endangerment? both for the new mother and unborn child?

[LLaFren]

Originally Posted by walton

Welcome back LLaFren

Do you think charges will be brought about to those that witnessed the whole 3 day labor thing? Wouldn't it be child endangerment? both for the new mother and unborn child?

I'm not sure if it would be child endangerment. What comes to mind is more of a failure to render medical assistance, wasn't a nurse and a midwife present? This would be along the lines of say an EMT being on the scene of an accident and not doing anything to help. To me it would more of a professional obligation or requirement.

[TexasBoots]

Originally Posted by walton

Welcome back LLaFren

Do you think charges will be brought about to those that witnessed the whole 3 day labor thing? Wouldn't it be child endangerment? both for the new mother and unborn child?

Walton, Dr. Susan Stickevers, the vice president of the AAAP is currently filing complaints with all relevant Texas Medical Boards, against the "doctor" present, as well as the two women, one identified as a "midwife" and another identified as a "nurse", who were present as the girl struggled in labor for three days.

Neither the "midwife" nor the "nurse" were properly licensed in Texas. To top it off, neither was their "birthing center" licenced in Texas.

Having records of Warren Jeffs admitting they were refusing to seek help for the girl out of FEAR of prosecution of Raymond Jessop is a clear indication to me, that if she or the baby HAD died, they would have never reported the deaths to Schleicher County.

A reporter asked me what I think would have happened if either or both had died, and in my opinion they would have disposed of the baby somehow, and would have toted the girl's body back up to Mohave County for burial, since Arizona authorities explained to me, way back in 2005, when I started my investigation, that "there is no law in Arizona that requires human graves to be, or to remain marked".

That's why I think it is so important for the prosecution to ask the jury, "Gee, if they were afraid to seek medical assistance for the girl out of fear of prosecution, how afraid of prosecution do you think they would have been had she or the baby died"?

Dr. Stickevers has explained that once water has broken, no one should go more than 24 hours in labor, especially a young girl who isn't even finished physically developing. The risks of infection to the girl were high. The risks of damage to the baby, for cerebral palsy and death were high. The "nurse", "midwife" and "doctor" were knowingly risking their lives.


Why have they not been indicted?

Regardless, AAAP is practicing due diligence by making sure complaints are filed on ALL of them, "nurse", "midwife", "doctor" and the unlicensed "clinic".

We ain't walkin' away from this quietly.

[walton]

Texski- I think don't think we have to worry about Texas giving anyone 45 day sentences or saying "oops".

[walton]

Texas Boots I also like Gary Engles and I respect him and his work. And once again we agree on Flora. I had read how much time and dedication Flora spent on trying to do the right thing.

Some paint from top to bottom and some paint from side to side. Flora was all over painting from side to side and top to bottom. I respect her determination.

One of the reasons I keep asking about the state that the crime takes place is because I think that no matter where the person was violated it shouldn't matter. If Arizona can't prove that it happened in Arizona so what? It doesn't mean that the crime didn't take place.

That shouldn't be the sticky point of the trial imo.

They had plenty of proof in each and every one of those trials.

[walton]

Originally Posted by TexasBoots

Walton, Dr. Susan Stickevers, the vice president of the AAAP is currently filing complaints with all relevant Texas Medical Boards, against the "doctor" present, as well as the two women, one identified as a "midwife" and another identified as a "nurse", who were present as the girl struggled in labor for three days.

Neither the "midwife" nor the "nurse" were properly licensed in Texas. To top it off, neither was their "birthing center" licenced in Texas.

Having records of Warren Jeffs admitting they were refusing to seek help for the girl out of FEAR of prosecution of Raymond Jessop is a clear indication to me, that if she or the baby HAD died, they would have never reported the deaths to Schleicher County.

A reporter asked me what I think would have happened if either or both had died, and in my opinion they would have disposed of the baby somehow, and would have toted the girl's body back up to Mohave County for burial, since Arizona authorities explained to me, way back in 2005, when I started my investigation, that "there is no law in Arizona that requires human graves to be, or to remain marked".

That's why I think it is so important for the prosecution to ask the jury, "Gee, if they were afraid to seek medical assistance for the girl out of fear of prosecution, how afraid of prosecution do you think they would have been had she or the baby died"?

Dr. Stickevers has explained that once water has broken, no one should go more than 24 hours in labor, especially a young girl who isn't even finished physically developing. The risks of infection to the girl were high. The risks of damage to the baby, for cerebral palsy and death were high. The "nurse", "midwife" and "doctor" were knowingly risking their lives.


Why have they not been indicted?

Regardless, AAAP is practicing due diligence by making sure complaints are filed on ALL of them, "nurse", "midwife", "doctor" and the unlicensed "clinic".

We ain't walkin' away from this quietly.

If I remember correctly Gary did look into the Baby Grave issue and I got the impression that the issue was still being investigated.

I also remember seeing on your site that the amount of names including the dates and questionable deaths. Aren't they still investigating?

I think even if the graves themselves don't have markers the deaths have to be recorded somewhere. And of course those graves have to be recorded somewhere with the county so they don't "double up".


What do you know about Dr. Larry Beall? The guy who is going to testify on Monday?

[walton]

http://texasflds.wordpress.com/2009/...-witness-list/

Read the comments. Why hasn't this made headline news?

[TexasBoots]

Originally Posted by walton

If I remember correctly Gary did look into the Baby Grave issue and I got the impression that the issue was still being investigated.

I also remember seeing on your site that the amount of names including the dates and questionable deaths. Aren't they still investigating?

I think even if the graves themselves don't have markers the deaths have to be recorded somewhere. And of course those graves have to be recorded somewhere with the county so they don't "double up".


What do you know about Dr. Larry Beall? The guy who is going to testify on Monday?

No, accorsding to Tom Sheahan "We've looked into it and there's nothing to any of that'.

No, the only thing that resulted from having the cemetery 'looked at' was that the FLDS ran around poking more tin markers into the ground, both on the adult and baby cemeteries. Obviously that was a good enough "investigation" for Mohave County.

Never mind that some people being listed as being buried in completely different counties suddenly showed up being buried there...I guess they were just visiting those other cemeteries for a while?

I don't have a bad word to say about Gary. Like he told me, "I can only investigate what they tell me to".

His boss, Tom Sheahan.....what can I say? from my own personal experience-I think he is a corrupt POS.

Why else would he have allowed Warren Jeffs to have a laptop in his jail cell while Schleicher County was convening its first grand jury here in Texas until I caught them at it?

[Roux]

Originally Posted by walton

http://myeldorado.net/ Today's latest

I had read somewhere that the Judge told the members of the Jury to bring an overnight bag.

I think we will know by days end. (Remember they are use to going until sometimes 7pm and later.)

If found guilty would they sentence him the same day? Or would they allow him time to get his personal and business things in order? Would they take his passport? Does he have a passport?

If he is found guilty, I hope they sentence him right away. And then I hope the next trial starts on Mon.

Would his other wives be charged of being accessory to the fact? Would they tack another charge on to Warren?

The lights are on in Texas. I am confident that those of the jury have been able to step step and kick over all the BS.

Regarding the sentencing phase, I served on a jury in Montgomery County, TX about 6 months ago. After the verdict was reached in late afternoon, we immediately went to deliberations on sentencing the next morning. Guess I need a TX civics lesson 'cause I don't know if it's the same in every county. Julikan probably knows.

[walton]

http://myeldorado.net/

Holy Cow!! I just read the Eldorado. Randy has written an article that contains info concerning the case that I didn't know before.

I can't say it here. I can't copy paste anything. I want to talk about it but I can't. I mean I really want to say something. I wonder if Brooke or the Deseret News will mention it. They should mention it. But will they?

Texas SE is good about doing this the right way. Texas SE would you? Could you?


If anyone goes over there check out the photo of the kids on the front page. Has nothing to do with the FLDS or the Ranch. That is a picture!!

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...rges.html?pg=1

Prosecutors also allege that Jessop and two other sect members engaged in illegal banking activity that caused Bank of America and Wells Fargo to terminate the accounts of the ranch's holding company. The court filing offered no details.

Jessop is legally married to Mary Musser and listed her name, along with that of his sister-in-law, Jozette Jessop, as executives at Tonto Supply Co. to get status as a women-owned business and to protect him and his brother from liability on projects sought in Mohave County, Ariz., prosecutors said.

Tonto was recently the low bidder for a contract to improve a pathway in Kingman, Ariz., said Mohave County spokesman Darryl Purcell.

Prosecutors say Jessop abandoned Mary Musser, 12 biological children, eight other wives and 10 stepchildren in 2007 for more than a year at Jeffs' instruction.



When a person stops to think about all the stuff that has gone on over just the last 10 years..... ya have to wonder what on earth were the law officials of Utah and Arizona doing? (NOT ALL but a big majority of them)

A person might not be able to sue public officials but I would think that some of these yahoo's should be doing an awful lot of time doing community service. With out pay.