Americans Charged in abduction of Haitian children after Earthquake

[JD1974]

7.0 only 10 miles from Port au Prince....guy on CNN said they can hear people screaming.

[Justice4all]

Very scary. I hope no one was hurt.

[Pretty Leaf]

A hospital collapsed so I fear there will be many casualties. The way that buildings are constructed in this poorest country I can see the death toll to be high,

[Justice4all]

A hospital collapsed so I fear there will be many casualties. The way that buildings are constructed in this poorest country I can see the death toll to be high,

OMG....TY for the update :crying:

[annalyzer]

http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream1

[Pretty Leaf]

Presendential Palace destroyed as per CNN. Now if anything was going to be built well that would be.

If that can go down, what do you think happened to all the shanty towns?

Prayer:rose:

[CNTM]

http://twitter.com/CNN/haiti

Such devastation! Praying for the country.

[annalyzer]

slideshow

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Strong-earthquake-hits-Haiti/ss/events/wl/011210haitiquake#photoViewer=/100113/480/d21971868d2d49c9a9cb7675b1ff3090

[CNTM]

Reports now saying thousands dead. :rose:

[Details]

Very bad. They've no construction standards - and in a very real way, they can't afford them (a choice of build it wrong, or don't build it at all and die from the elements) - this is going to be very bad. I'm glad all the help is being set up, but there's nothing that can prevent this from being a major tragedy.

[Moondust]

Facebooks page on the disaster...

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&gid=252988675717


Photo link....

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&gid=252988675717#/group.php?v=photos&gid=252988675717&so=345




Youtube footage...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLFLqnpSK0M

Photo pages....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLd5yUOnHvA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-54xRhLcyj4&feature=related




They are reporting on CNN that hundreds of thousands could be dead....:crying:

[Details]

With a lot of damage to the hospital, they're saying they need a hospital ship more than anything right now.

It's really something to see all the little things a good government does that haven't happened here for so many decades - here, a hospital is built and overbuilt, to be the one building left standing in almost any disaster. There - I don't know if it was shoddy construction, or a dirty contractor not building to spec - but for the hospital to have collapsed suggests a problem - a 7.0 quake shouldn't have taken it down, unless there were some other issues (if you are on the wrong type of soil, or happen to match the frequency of the earthquake, nothing can be done).

[RootBeer]

http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream1

[KatieLady]

Per CNN:

Hundreds of thousands of people have died in Haiti's earthquake, the prime minister told CNN today.

:rose:

[Details]

I just hope help is already there - the hospital ship at the least. People are dying now.

Some Hatian senator was saying the toll could be 500,000 - a half million people. I think the estimate is quite high - but no doubt it will be many thousands, likely tens of thousands at a minimum. Unbelievable. And they've so few resources there to recover with.

[lune3]

Doctors Without Borders loses all three hospitals in Haitian quake

The 7.0-magnitude quake incapacitated all three Doctors Without Borders medical facilities around the capital of Port-Au-Prince, the group said Wednesday, causing one to collapse completely and rendering the other two so unstable that they had to be abandoned.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100113/national/earthquake_haiti_cda_aid

[Details]

Pat whatshizname is saying the earthquake is because the Haitans had a deal with the devil - once again blaming the victims of a natural disaster in order to fill his religious coffers. The most disgusting thing I've ever seen - and I don't understand why ANYONE stands for it. How does he still have people who follow him?

[Details]

Worse than nuts - this is sick and disgusting. It's like a vulture - you see people dying and suffering, injured and hurt - and twist the knife, and find ways to profit from it.

How, exactly, can someone explain, does this repulsive philosophy have ANYONE following it - let alone so many people, who claim to follow Christ? Christ did not look at someone suffering and dying, and attack them.

[*Pia]

:rose::rose::rose:

[Details]

It's an island - those are generally on plate borders or areas that are becoming plate borders - how do they prevent this from happening again - with their level of technology and income?

Early to think of that I know - but they'll need to sooner or later.

[Details]

And - it doesn't change the degree of sickness - but he's not even historically accurate.

General Jean Jacques Dessalines declared Haitian independence in 1804.

Napoleon III wasn't born until 1808.

[Tracian]

Here are some more of Pat Robinson's thoughts on several subjects:

http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2010/01/13/crimesider/photoessay6094112.shtml?tag=page

[Emerald]

Pat whatshizname is saying the earthquake is because the Haitans had a deal with the devil - once again blaming the victims of a natural disaster in order to fill his religious coffers. The most disgusting thing I've ever seen - and I don't understand why ANYONE stands for it. How does he still have people who follow him?

Are you serious? Pat Robertson actually said that?


:cursing:

[Amy S.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5TE99sAbwM


Pat Robertson link.

[birdwatch]

Are you serious? Pat Robertson actually said that?


:cursing: Here's the story - includes his comment - and a better response than I could write.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-raushenbush/go-to-hell-pat-robertson_b_422397.html

[Justice4all]

I have to wonder if Pat thinks before he speaks.

[Tracian]

I have to wonder if Pat thinks before he speaks.


I hope I can word this right, so bear with me :)

There is nothing wrong with being religious and trying to make sense out of tragedy as attributing it to 'God's will'

IMO, the problem here lies with the reason's Mr. Robinson believes it is 'God's will'

If I knew nothing about the Christian faith, or people that are Christian, his observations would scare the heck out of me, and I would think that this God he speaks of/to is very vindictive, mean, and cruel.

[witchywoman]

pr is nuttier than a almond joy candy bar, jmho

[pixiejoolz]

For anyone wanting to donate, you can go to cnn.com and go to their "impact your world" section. It has a lengthy list of organizations who are involved in the relief effort.

[annalyzer]

Who listens to Pat Robertson? :huh:

[Maranatha]

As an reformed Protestant, I absolutely stand against Pat Robertson once again, in his totally unChristlike, totally unbiblical statements that he spews.

He does not speak for me or the Christ I know.

I believe he is a wolf, a roaring lion wanting to devour the weak. Unfortunately, he has legions of them.

J4all said:

I have to wonder if Pat thinks before he speaks.

IMO, sure he does, if he can rally people to send him the money they might otherwise send to relief efforts.

"Twist not the scriptures, so as not be like the devil." ~ anon.

I thank all here who speak out against Pat Robertson. There's many more, most of whom don't get the attention he does. He himself pronounced judgment again New Orleans, Malaysia and so many other places suffereing a catastrophe.

News flash Pat, you don't have a hot line to the Lord. You're not Elijah calling down fire.

Please don't lump me, or anyone who claims the Savior in with him. He doesn't embarass me as a Christian (if he is one) but he disgusts me.

MOO

[JennyM]

I have to wonder if Pat thinks before he speaks.

I think he says what he does for attention mostly. He also makes the mistake of taking the Old Testament very literally. This is a good article about him.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/cbn/cbn26.html

[Tracian]

As an reformed Protestant, I absolutely stand against Pat Robertson once again, in his totally unChristlike, totally unbiblical statements that he spews.

He does not speak for me or the Christ I know.

I believe he is a wolf, a roaring lion wanting to devour the weak. Unfortunately, he has legions of them.

J4all said:



IMO, sure he does, if he can rally people to send him the money they might otherwise send to relief efforts.

"Twist not the scriptures, so as not be like the devil." ~ anon.

I thank all here who speak out against Pat Robertson. There's many more, most of whom don't get the attention he does. He himself pronounced judgment again New Orleans, Malaysia and so many other places suffereing a catastrophe.

News flash Pat, you don't have a hot line to the Lord. You're not Elijah calling down fire.

Please don't lump me, or anyone who claims the Savior in with him. He doesn't embarass me as a Christian (if he is one) but he disgusts me.

MOO



Well stated. :thumbsup:

[Details]

Who listens to Pat Robertson? :huh:At least a million viewers, in America alone, daily.

http://www.cbn.com/700club/showinfo/about/about700club.aspx

Three million volunteered to help him become President.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson

[Details]

Nice try - but no Christian God would curse a country like that - not according to the Bible that says the sins of the father are NOT visited on the son. He said what he said - the intent was clear.

I wouldn't trust their relief efforts much either - will they be real or will they be a ploy - here's medicine if you join us. Anything is good - but I don't trust that it will be real relief - I suspect it'll be more conversion or photo-op.

[STENOGAL]

Thoughts and prayers to all involved. I'm hoping the U.S. and Canada and other countries can all rally together quickly to get these people relief and supplies they need.

[RootBeer]

his show tonight is covering this crisis.

[JennyM]

You can also give through the United Methodist Committee on Relief.

http://new.gbgm-umc.org/umcor/

[JennyM]

http://creationwiki.org/Bible_is_harmonious_throughout

The God of the Old Testament is one who is teaching His people right from wrong, and who metes out justice against individuals and nations that defy His will. In the New Testament, Jesus teaches us that we should offer mercy to those who have wronged us. This might seem like a different (but not contradictory) approach, but one cannot offer mercy except as an alternative to justice. That is, without the foundational principle of one deserving just punishment, mercy is meaningless.

It also overemphasizes the acts of judgment in the Old Testament and ignores the acts and teachings of mercy. The great Golden Rule of Christianity and other philosophies which says "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is simply derived from the Old Testament teaching of "love your neighbour as yourself". When the Almighty describes his characteristics in Exodus 34, he doesn't simply say he judges and punishes sins, but that he is also gracious, compassionate, slow to anger and abounding in mercy, protecting kindness, and forgiving all manner of sins. This is just one example out of many Old Testament examples that show that the treatment of Talk.Origins is unwarranted and unbalanced.

* Some parts of the Bible say the sins of the father are inherited by future generations (e.g., Exod. 20:5, Deut. 5:9). Other parts (Ezek. 18) says they are not.

These passages are interpreted a number of ways, but even on face value, Talk.Origins ignores some of the biblical text. The part that Talk.Origins deals with in Exodus 20:5 and Deut 5:9 deals with punishment. The sins themselves are not inherited but the punishment or the effects of the punishment can be felt by future generations. Also the scripture says the sins of the father are visited or dealt with (not inherited) on the future generations of those that hate the Creator. This implies that the future generations also hate the Creator as well, so their punishment is justified.

It also ignores the next clause that the Almighty shows kindness to those who love him and keep his commandments. This implies that if anyone who hates the Creator changes his ways and repents, he then becomes one of those who love the Creator and thus can attain mercy/kindness.

But whatever the case, the verse does not say that sins are inherited. It says that the punishment of sin can continue and roll-over, like the snowball/avalanche effect, in a family line that continues sinning.

Since Exodus 20:5 and Deuteronomy 5:9 are not talking about inherited sin, the point Talk.Origins makes is irrelevant.

Ezekiel 18 shows people wondering why they are feeling the punishment of the sins of their fathers. The Creator shows the same principle that is in all of scripture: that everyone is responsible for their own actions. The sins of the father are not inherited by the son. The son/child can decide whether to do right or wrong. A good son is not punished for the sins of his father. A bad son is not exalted for the goodness of his righteous father. Everyone is responsible for their own actions and the consequences that fall upon them.

So, to reiterate, the point Talk.Origins makes is irrelevant and inaccurate.

[Patriot]

(snip) [url]
* Some parts of the Bible say the sins of the father are inherited by future generations (e.g., Exod. 20:5, Deut. 5:9). Other parts (Ezek. 18) says they are not.




It's always important to know entire context. Ezekiel 18:20 is talking about the Law of the Pentateuch and the Jewish legal system. That does not negate the consequences God is talking about in the verses where He clearly says that the sins of the fathers are visited upon the sons.

Of course, people can and will interpret Scripture to say whatever they want it to say. That's nothing new. (and not directed at any post here, just to say that discussion about it is pointless unless anyone is in the dicussion for any reason other than to further their own viewpoint, which usually is not the case on message boards)

[JennyM]

(snip)

Scripture clearly says that the sins of the father are visited upon the sons:.

Of course, people can and will interpret Scripture to say whatever they want it to say.

[Patriot]

Of course, people can and will interpret Scripture to say whatever they want it to say.

Yep. The verses which clearly state it are posted. I simply posted the proof that a claim made was not accurate. Makes no nevermind to me otherwise. Carry on and have a great night, "Jenny" :)

[Patriot]

http://www.voiceofonecrying.com/generational_sins_or_god.htm

There is a teaching prominent in religious circles based mostly on a shamefully ignorant view of a phrase found in Exodus 34:7 and repeated in Numbers 14:18.

what a great piece, thanks. It's nice to see the exposure of the " I was born this way and can't help it" nonsense for what it is.

[JennyM]

what a great piece, thanks. It's nice to see the exposure of the " I was born this way and can't help it" nonsense for what it is.

Of course, people can and will interpret Scripture to say whatever they want it to say.

[Cooper]

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2010/01/13/crimesider/entry6092717.shtml



from the link:

They were under the heel of the French, you know Napoleon the third and whatever. And they got together and swore a pack to the devil. They said 'We will serve you if you will get us free from the prince.' True story. And so the devil said, 'Ok it’s a deal.' And they kicked the French out. The Haitians revolted and got something themselves free. But ever since they have been cursed by one thing after another," Robertson said.

:cursing:

He is insane.

[Cooper]

I have to wonder if Pat thinks before he speaks.

Really, you have to wonder?

[Cooper]

(snip)


It's always important to know entire context. Ezekiel 18:20 is talking about the Law of the Pentateuch and the Jewish legal system. That does not negate the consequences God is talking about in the verses where He clearly says that the sins of the fathers are visited upon the sons.

)

Do a little research and you will see that "the sins of the fathers are visited upon the sons" has a much different view within Judaism.

[forensic-]

What a tragedy. :sad:

You can donate to the Haitian Relief Fund at the Clinton Foundation:

http://clintonfoundation.org

[GossipGirl]

I hear that Doctor's Without Borders has been there all along, even before the quake, so I'm going to give them 5 dollars.
GG

[crocdog1]

I have to wonder if Pat thinks before he speaks.

Here we go again.

Intelligent, educated, extreme Right Wingers who don't say what they mean to say, even though they said what they didn't mean to say.

Just My humble Opinion

[Details]

There's a thread on Pat Robertson's comment:
http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?p=13787878&posted=1#post13787878

Just to avoid derailing this thread on that issue.

[LisaM22]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-raushenbush/go-to-hell-pat-robertson_b_422397.html

From Reverend Rashenbush - a Baptist Minister (for those who somehow think finding these comments offensive is a matter of Christian bashing).

Reverend Rashenbush :thumbsup:

[Details]

Reverend Rashenbush :thumbsup:I like both those comments - they well point out that Robertson is sitting there saying God is deliberately doing this - an astonishing statement from someone who supposedly believes God to be a good thing.

[LisaM22]

I like both those comments - they well point out that Robertson is sitting there saying God is deliberately doing this - an astonishing statement from someone who supposedly believes God to be a good thing.

I agree, there are good and bad Christians and I do not think Pat Robertson is one of the good ones - jmho

[Debb]

I was shocked to see footagle of the quake.
http://cnn.com has a video clip showing the moment of the quake. It is unbelieveable how much the earth was shaking!!!! Unreal and so scary.

[ninetoes]

This is really nothing new, but it does show just how partisan and low politicians will go in order to garner some kind of advantage.

It has always been common to go to prior leadership in times of disaster, since each one brings different expertise and contacts into the mix. I would imagine Carter will be able to provide substantial help when it comes time for rebuilding.

Well, Clinton and the elder Bush had worked on a few projects before, so I am hopeful he and GW Bush can also work together in the same way.

[cbhope]

I think perhaps GWB is taking the elder Bush's place b/c of the elder being sick (JMG). Clinton and Bush Sr. worked together quite well as I think Clinton is more able to work well with any side of the political spectrum. He is not at all like the current resident of the WH.

[Details]

I should have read more closely:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100114/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_us_haiti_earthquake
The hospital ship arrives Friday - tomorrow. That will be such a help - but they are going to be so unbelievably overloaded.

[Sesame Seed]

Well, I hope Bush follows through. It finally is something worthwhile and he can begin to redeem himself. I know Clinton will jump to it, that is his nature.

[Sesame Seed]

I think perhaps GWB is taking the elder Bush's place b/c of the elder being sick (JMG). Clinton and Bush Sr. worked together quite well as I think Clinton is more able to work well with any side of the political spectrum. He is not at all like the current resident of the WH.
Well when you speak of the "current resident", also consider the unwillingness of the republicans, also known as the party of NO. From what I've seen, they don't work well with others. Seems obama is willing but republicans aren't.

[ninetoes]

That very well could be the reason, but this type of thing is not uncommon.

I agree with you about Clinton. Some of his best policies were passed when he worked with both sides and the results were better for the American people.

Like everything else with Obama, his inexperience sets the stage for lack of any progress.

Clinton did well when republicans controlled congress. It forced the parties to work together. Having a single party control all 3 branches is never a good thing, IMO, no matter which party it happens to be. When such a situation occurs, it can serve no purpose other than a complete division of the country, IMO.

[Sesame Seed]

That very well could be the reason, but this type of thing is not uncommon.

I agree with you about Clinton. Some of his best policies were passed when he worked with both sides and the results were better for the American people.

Like everything else with Obama, his inexperience sets the stage for lack of any progress.

You cannot work with people who do not want to work with you. You cannot force them. That is how I view the republicans currently in office also known as the party of NO. If you wish to blame, distribute it.

[Details]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-wallis/god-suffers-with-the-suff_b_423853.htmlSo, I thought I'd take Robertson's comment as an opportunity to set the record straight. The God I serve, the God of the Bible, does not cause evil. God is not a vengeful and retributive being, waiting to strike us down. Evil happens, whether at the hands of corrupt people or because the earth shifts along a fault line and the world rumbles.

When evil strikes, it's easy to ask, where is God. The answer: God is suffering in the midst of the evil with those who are suffering. This is what I think we need more of - religious leaders who stand up and say how wrong such a comment is.

[Zanzi]

Well, I hope Bush follows through. It finally is something worthwhile and he can begin to redeem himself. I know Clinton will jump to it, that is his nature.

Redeem himself? For what? Don't bother answering that. I'm sure I've heard/read it all before. MO

[theal3]

I think perhaps GWB is taking the elder Bush's place b/c of the elder being sick (JMG). Clinton and Bush Sr. worked together quite well as I think Clinton is more able to work well with any side of the political spectrum. He is not at all like the current resident of the WH.

Good idea, and I hope GWB accepts. Sr. Bush and Clinton did very well doing this. or are some going to knock down this, too, just because Obama is doing it?

[kitty1182]

I agree, there are good and bad Christians and I do not think Pat Robertson is one of the good ones - jmho

I agree........

[Dukensam]

Good idea, and I hope GWB accepts. Sr. Bush and Clinton did very well doing this. or are some going to knock down this, too, just because Obama is doing it? I have been following the response to this human tragedy. It has been awesome. The problem now is that supplies are landing every couple minutes but since the roads were destroyed, they have to figure out some way to get the supplies to the people. And sadly, there was just on the news that some people are now selling bottles of water at a huge cost. People without homes, food, water and jobs cannot afford to pay for something as basic as water. So hopefully they can quickly figure out a way to get the supplies being flown in to the people ASAP.

Clinton and Bush Sr did a very good job after the tsunami. Obama was very wise to pick who he picked because one is an expert at getting donations and the other is experienced at what is needed after a natural disaster and what is the best way to supply it where it is needed.

[lunchlady]

Robertson has said many creepy things over the years, for example that Todd Palin should take Levi Johnston down to the creek and hold his head under water until the thrashing stops. I wouldn't say that in private conversation, forget about on TV, no matter how mad I was at someone. Guess Patty thinks Sarah and her little ol' family need some good ol' fashioned protectin', even if it involves "jokes" about murder.

[JennyM]

Robertson has said many creepy things over the years, for example that Todd Palin should take Levi Johnston down to the creek and hold his head under water until the thrashing stops. I wouldn't say that in private conversation, forget about on TV, no matter how mad I was at someone. Guess Patty thinks Sarah and her little ol' family need some good ol' fashioned protectin', even if it involves "jokes" about murder.

Pat Buchanan said that, not Pat Robertson.

http://dekerivers.wordpress.com/2009/08/19/did-pat-buchanan-really-say-todd-palin-should-drown-levi-johnston/

[lunchlady]

Pat Buchanan said that, not Pat Robertson.

http://dekerivers.wordpress.com/2009/08/19/did-pat-buchanan-really-say-todd-palin-should-drown-levi-johnston/

You're right! Sorry about that. I get my Pats mixed up, but what's the difference between them anyway?

[Fire-N-Ice]

Is he NUTS? So much for good ole fashion human compassion. Where do they find these people, in the bottom of a Cracker-Jack box....A prize every time.

[theal3]

Terrific! and we know he can write well, too. I enjoy his perspective regarding history, and knowledge of not only U.S. history, but the history of the world and region and how all relates and works.

[Sesame Seed]

Terrific! and we know he can write well, too. I enjoy his perspective regarding history, and knowledge of not only U.S. history, but the history of the world and region and how all relates and works.

Obama certainly is well read and knows his history. A good writer too. I'm sure he'll do a great job.:thumbup:

[JennyM]

You're right! Sorry about that. I get my Pats mixed up, but what's the difference between them anyway?

You have a point there! Those two are cut from the same mold.

[hatkie]

Well of course :thumbsup:

[crocdog1]

Well when you speak of the "current resident", also consider the unwillingness of the republicans, also known as the party of NO. From what I've seen, they don't work well with others. Seems obama is willing but republicans aren't.

Actually, they do work very well with theiir own.

The Party of No MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, to a man, march in lockstep to the postulations of their leader--Rush Limbaugh.

Just My Humble Opinion.

[Zanzi]

Actually, they do work very well with theiir own.

The Party of No MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, to a man, march in lockstep to the postulations of their leader--Rush Limbaugh.

Just My Humble Opinion.

Actually, it's the Party of Know....and BTW, you must listen to Rush a lot to know so much about him and what he speaks. ROFL.......

[JennyM]

Well, Clinton and the elder Bush had worked on a few projects before, so I am hopeful he and GW Bush can also work together in the same way.

I bet they'll make a good team. I think it was a great appointment.

[BESTFRIEND]

Actually, it's the Party of Know....and BTW, you must listen to Rush a lot to know so much about him and what he speaks. ROFL.......
Funny, but I was thinking the same thing. He/She probably never misses one of Rush' broadcasts.
IMO

[Citygirl]

What a horrific tragedy for this already poor country..I was watchin how they are piling up the victims..this is just so very sad..

[Mimi428]

Maybe he doesnt want the air time?

You could be right, I really don't know.

But if he (or anyone) accepts the invitation to lead fundraising efforts for relief efforts - is it unreasonable to expect him to say something, to someone, somewhere about that very thing?

This is really weird, IMO. I have done several google searches with different terms to try to find something specifically about him, but all the results are detailing Bill Clinton's immediate efforts. So far, I have found nothing to indicate that GWB has issued any appeal for donations.

[ninetoes]

You could be right, I really don't know.

But if he (or anyone) accepts the invitation to lead fundraising efforts for relief efforts - is it unreasonable to expect him to say something, to someone, somewhere about that very thing?

This is really weird, IMO. I have done several google searches with different terms to try to find something specifically about him, but all the results are detailing Bill Clinton's immediate efforts. So far, I have found nothing to indicate that GWB has issued any appeal for donations.

I dont find it strange at all. When Clinton and Bush the elder worked together, 99% of the time Clinton did the talking. Very little was said publicly by Bush.

[Mimi428]

I dont find it strange at all. When Clinton and Bush the elder worked together, 99% of the time Clinton did the talking. Very little was said publicly by Bush.

You are most assuredly entitled to your own opinion, but I do find it odd. An appeal from Bill Clinton will have a specific reaction - some will be moved to donate because of it, some will be moved to reject it - simply because it is coming from him.

And the same applies to George the younger. They each have unique supporters as well as detractors. George's supporters need to hear from him, not Clinton.

I understand your point about George the elder, but he was a much older man at the time he & Clinton were working together for the tsunami relief efforts. I cannot expect the same sort of endurance & stamina from someone his age. But that doesn't apply to his son - who is physically fit & would be capable of handling the rigors of a vigorous day of fundraising appeals.

[ninetoes]

You are most assuredly entitled to your own opinion, but I do find it odd. An appeal from Bill Clinton will have a specific reaction - some will be moved to donate because of it, some will be moved to reject it - simply because it is coming from him.

And the same applies to George the younger. They each have unique supporters as well as detractors. George's supporters need to hear from him, not Clinton.

I understand your point about George the elder, but he was a much older man at the time he & Clinton were working together for the tsunami relief efforts. I cannot expect the same sort of endurance & stamina from someone his age. But that doesn't apply to his son - who is physically fit & would be capable of handling the rigors of a vigorous day of fundraising appeals.

I think some may just be waiting for him to speak, so they have something else to bash him with. But that's just my thoughts on the matter.

[Details]

This always has a good news roundup - it's the latest news, photos, etc. - all as little blurbs.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/13/haiti-earthquake-breaking_n_421644.html

Americans have donated 8 million already in those text messages. It's a wonderful start - but there's still so far to go, when 3 million people have been affected. Still, it's a wonderful thing, and if I know charities, that money will be well stretched to go very far.

Someone named Alyssa Milisano (I'm not at all up on celebrities, so I've no idea who this is) is donating 50,000 - and looking for a company to match her donation, and George Clooney is apparently hosting a telethon to raise money. Madonna, $250,000, Comcast 1 million - some very generous people out there.

The government has buried 7000 so far - but there are still bodies everywhere. Aid is pouring in - but the logistical issues of no tower for the airport, and the immense scale of this disaster mean that people are still not getting any food and water, even days after the disaster. It of course doesn't help that many of the aid workers who were in the country were also victims of the disaster.

The people waiting for help are getting really frustrated out there - they're trying to dig to get survivors with their bare hands, and wondering where the help is, they aren't able to find anything to eat or drink - and without communications, they can't know how immense this disaster is, nor how immense the aid efforts are.

So horrible - I know in a few days much of this will be improved, but you just wish, with all the good intentions, all the people trying to help, even Cuba and America working together, that this would create a magic solution that just fixed everything right away.

[Pretty Leaf]

I was just at Costco and they asked if you wanted to donate..I gave $50.00 and on the receipt it says the money goes to Red Cross

[crocdog1]

Actually, it's the Party of Know....and BTW, you must listen to Rush a lot to know so much about him and what he speaks. ROFL.......

Yes, I do listen to Rush Limbaugh who, IMO, spews forth mean sprited and hateful rhetoric.

The reason I do, is because I am most interested in knowing why the Party of No MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, to a man, are so engrossed in his postulations. They obey his orders and instructions almost 100% of the time.

I still am unable to fathom why they are so absorbed in his, again IMO, hateful, Racial, and mean spirited postulations.

Just My humble Opinion

[TBO]

You know how much everyone makes? You know what their own personal situation is with family and medical obligations?
They are already donating thru their taxes.

Sure, it's sad, sure I feel bad for the people, but it doesn't do any good
to throw money at that place. It will all be siphoned off and the shantytowns will rise again until the next disaster.

:crying: I'm speechless!!!!

[JennyM]

You know how much everyone makes? You know what their own personal situation is with family and medical obligations?
They are already donating thru their taxes.

Sure, it's sad, sure I feel bad for the people, but it doesn't do any good
to throw money at that place. It will all be siphoned off and the shantytowns will rise again until the next disaster.

Oh, those greedy people taking our tax dollars to build up their fancy ol' shanty towns! How dare they!

Republicans. Bless their hearts. :blink:

[Citygirl]

You know how much everyone makes? You know what their own personal situation is with family and medical obligations?
They are already donating thru their taxes.

Sure, it's sad, sure I feel bad for the people, but it doesn't do any good
to throw money at that place. It will all be siphoned off and the shantytowns will rise again until the next disaster.


It almost broke my heart to read this..
if we can't help the people that need it most, when they are goin thru a crisis..who do we help then?

[Pretty Leaf]

I want all the money to go to the rebuild of the poorest of the poor. Give them a decent and solid place to live.

I dread that the Presidential Palace will be rebuit to it's grand state pre-earthquake. A modest building should replace it. I heard the President whine that he had no place to sleep..neither has your citizens and for alot before this tragedy.

I look at this island that has so much to give geographicaly that if it could be turned around to a country like the DR were vacation dreams are a reality, good employment opportunities.

Corrupt police and leaders must go.

No I do not think the money should go to ousting the government but this rebuild if done right could lead to so much more.

[Ionmhainn]

I want all the money to go to the rebuild of the poorest of the poor. Give them a decent and solid place to live.

I dread that the Presidential Palace will be rebuit to it's grand state pre-earthquake. A modest building should replace it.

<respectfully snipped> BBM

I'm so glad I'm not the only one to be angered at the very thought of a presidential palace in such a poor country. It bothers me every time I see it.

The coverage of this disaster is absolutely heartbreaking. So many people may never know what happened to their loved ones. Part of me feels that I am intruding on private sorrow by even watching some of the horrific scenes...another part wants it screamed out to the world.
I am humbled by the bravery and determination of the Haitian people. God Bless them and comfort them.

[Dustee]

You cannot work with people who do not want to work with you. You cannot force them. That is how I view the republicans currently in office also known as the party of NO. If you wish to blame, distribute it.

You mean like trying to work with a President who tells people (paraphrased) "I won so I'll do it my way"?

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/01/i-won-president.html

[JennyM]

<respectfully snipped> BBM

I'm so glad I'm not the only one to be angered at the very thought of a presidential palace in such a poor country. It bothers me every time I see it.

The coverage of this disaster is absolutely heartbreaking. So many people may never know what happened to their loved ones. Part of me feels that I am intruding on private sorrow by even watching some of the horrific scenes...another part wants it screamed out to the world.
I am humbled by the bravery and determination of the Haitian people. God Bless them and comfort them.

The palace has been there for a long time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Palace_(Haiti)

[hooked2]

This is so upsetting, I thought it would be better since Katrina. And I know that the circumstances are different. Apparently the Haitian gov is reluctant to give up control. I heard tonight that they were checking papers and credentials etc on the doctors coming in... hello, what? Are you kidding me? People are dying all over the place and they want to validate doctors flying in from organizations, universities, and hospitals elsewhere? Outrageous! :cursing:

The fact that supplies have been sitting around that tarmac for up to three days because of the fear of chaos and rioting? By waiting and waiting, they are in fact creating the very circumstances to ensure people will be desperate enough by the time they get out there to riot.

Groups were held at the border of Dominican Republic because they weren't sure they could get through on the roads to Port-au-Prince? A man, now in the states, was driven from the airport in the city to the border two days ago. They made it all the way by car. So, why in the Dominican Republic can't they get a couple of bulldozers and just start a convoy? If they run into debris, push it aside and keep going!

Today, one agency fed 2,000. 2,000? There are 2 million people in need of food and water... :cursing: Everyone is 'assessing' 'figuring out the logistics' same words over and over. Meanwhile, professionals, rescuers, K9's, etc... sit and wait at the airport. The number of crews that actually got out there could probably be counted on one hand. I don't get it! Why can't they just act? Do it. Let everyone go out with whatever they have and find someone that needs help and just help them! It's better than waiting!! And waiting. I'm pissed about this illogical red tape Forget red tape in emergencies... get out and do something! You can't wait on the phone call of approval when the damned phones don't work. When you get it together in a few days, then you can be more orderly about it, but COME ON too many people are dying and suffering unnecessarily!!! Let them go and do already!

... just needed to get that off my chest :sad:

[MercedesV]

Given such a tragedy, it was good to see them doing the right thing. If there can be good news with such a tragedy it is seeing the generosity and what I think of as the true American spirit coming out.

[Details]

This is so upsetting, I thought it would be better since Katrina. And I know that the circumstances are different. Apparently the Haitian gov is reluctant to give up control. I heard tonight that they were checking papers and credentials etc on the doctors coming in... hello, what? Are you kidding me? People are dying all over the place and they want to validate doctors flying in from organizations, universities, and hospitals elsewhere? Outrageous! :cursing:

The fact that supplies have been sitting around that tarmac for up to three days because of the fear of chaos and rioting? By waiting and waiting, they are in fact creating the very circumstances to ensure people will be desperate enough by the time they get out there to riot.
....I think the situation is a bit better than that - but this is still an immense area that needs these supplies, with roads that are not passable, a huge city and slum, so no nice clearings to drop a helicopter in, even if you have one. No communication either.

Katrina was smaller, by a huge amount - just look at the count of the dead, and we are talking several orders of magnitude different.

I haven't seen anything about supplies sitting, nor IDs being checked - where is this coming from? I've been reading summary blogs and not seeing that.

[Susan43]

And then there is this guy.



http://thinkprogress.org/2010/01/15/steve-king-haiti/

Truly unbelievable.

OMG! He really is unbelievable. Wow! :thumbdown:

[hooked2]

I haven't seen anything about supplies sitting, nor IDs being checked - where is this coming from? I've been reading summary blogs and not seeing that.
I've been watching mostly CNN, but a bit of msnbc and fox too for 2 solid days.

[Details]

I've been watching mostly CNN, but a bit of msnbc and fox too for 2 solid days.I've been reading, mostly AP, CBSNews - so we're using totally different sources - just by chance.

[mollybrown]

There are truely many world citizens and corp. opening their hearts and their wallets. Please click PAST page 1

http://news.google.com/news/search?um=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&q=donation+to+haiti&cf=all&start=0

God Bless the Haitians :wub:

[RedPatriot]

And then there is this guy.



http://thinkprogress.org/2010/01/15/steve-king-haiti/

Truly unbelievable.:cursing: Seems King has a friend in Rush (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/comments_blog/2010/01/rush-limbaugh-haiti-earthquake-relief-donations-obama-red-cross-links.html) ... what a pair to draw to ...... :thumbdown:

[dannieg]

Calling the aftermath of the earthquake “a disaster of historic proportions,” Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said she was granting the designation, known as temporary protected status, for Haitian immigrants because their safety would be at risk if they were deported. Administration officials said the special status would cover at least 100,000 Haitians believed to be living in the United States illegally, as well as about 30,000 Haitians who had been ordered deported. Haitians who receive the temporary status will be able to obtain documents allowing them to live here and work legally.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/16/world/americas/16immig.html?hp

[dannieg]

Len--I heard something about it on Countdown. Disgusting, isn't it? Just inhuman, really.

[dannieg]

Decent people will drown out those voices. We are a caring people and it is showing in the vast majority of cases. snipped.

Absolutely, Mercedes.

[Fire-N-Ice]

Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie just pledged a million dollars also. It's really good to see the more fortunate helping out with this disaster!

BTW No link at this time. It was just announced on MSNBC.

[JennyM]

Your link, please? I can't find anything on this and Ido believe links are reuired when statements about someone are made. TIA

http://news-briefs.ew.com/2010/01/15/bullock-stars-haiti/

[Fire-N-Ice]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/16/world/americas/16telethon.html?ref=world

I just heard that and believe Ryan Seecrest is hosting it.

[mollybrown]

Your link, please? I can't find anything on this and Ido believe links are reuired when statements about someone are made. TIA

Here's another one, google is your friend! :smile:

http://www.okmagazine.com/2010/01/sandra-bullock-donates-1-million-to-doctors-without-borders/

[mollybrown]

Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie just pledged a million dollars also. It's really good to see the more fortunate helping out with this disaster!

BTW No link at this time. It was just announced on MSNBC.

http://news.google.com/news/search?u...cf=all&start=0

Great links, past the first page.

[RedPatriot]

Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie just pledged a million dollars also. It's really good to see the more fortunate helping out with this disaster!

BTW No link at this time. It was just announced on MSNBC.:thumbup: It's all good!

[Fire-N-Ice]

http://news.google.com/news/search?u...cf=all&start=0

Great links, past the first page.


Thanks much Molly, but I do know how to use Google. Appreciate it though...

BTW, if it makes you feel any better:

http://www.theinsider.com/news/3152668_Update_Angelina_Jolie_and_Brad_Pitt_Commit _1_Million_to_Haiti_Relief_First_Responders

[Cindylee]

http://news.google.com/news/search?u...cf=all&start=0

Great links, past the first page.

Thank you Molly.

[mollybrown]

Thanks much Molly, but I do know how to use Google. Appreciate it though...

BTW, if it makes you feel any better:

http://www.theinsider.com/news/3152668_Update_Angelina_Jolie_and_Brad_Pitt_Commit _1_Million_to_Haiti_Relief_First_Responders

It does not surprised me by the out pouring of monitory contributions. "WE" are a great human race!!

[Fire-N-Ice]

It does not surprised me by the out pouring of monitory contributions. "WE" are a great human race!!

Wonder if Rush is going to contribute to the cause...I rather doubt it..

No it doesn't surprise me at all Molly. Most people that are able will step up and give to those in dire need. And the very few will slam and politicize it to no end. Thank god most people are better then that, and smarter. IMO

[Fire-N-Ice]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/14/white-house-swift-generous-response


As it should be dannie. If we can destroy a country, (example Iraq), for no reason, then we should be able to help in the rescue and rebuilding efforts of another at a time like this. IMO of course.

[Ionmhainn]

I just watched AC360 and was so sad to hear that the little girl who was pulled from the rubble yesterday had died en route to a distant hospital. Sanjay Gupta stands bewildered...and utterly alone...in a makeshift hospital tent after all the doctors had been ordered to pack up and leave due to security concerns. Some of the patients there were post-op!

A food supply truck simply drives away after some pushing and shoving ensues. Someone mistakes the manufacture date on some high nutrition bars for an expiration date and shouts that the food is bad. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to the aid efforts thus far. Who can blame people for panic and desperation under these circumstances?

OMG....watching bodies being unloaded from a dump truck. What a heartache this is!

[Fire-N-Ice]

Yes, FNI .... I heard the same thing. George Clooney is hosting some telethon next week, I believe.

JMO

Hi Fairlady! I heard the same thing. Except for a select few, the response to this disaster has been wonderful. It's really nice to see most people pulling together for the Haitians during this crisis, and those poor folks sure need the help!

[Humdinger]

I just watched AC360 and was so sad to hear that the little girl who was pulled from the rubble yesterday had died en route to a distant hospital. Sanjay Gupta stands bewildered...and utterly alone...in a makeshift hospital tent after all the doctors had been ordered to pack up and leave due to security concerns. Some of the patients there were post-op!

A food supply truck simply drives away after some pushing and shoving ensues. Someone mistakes the manufacture date on some high nutrition bars for an expiration date and shouts that the food is bad. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to the aid efforts thus far. Who can blame people for panic and desperation under these circumstances?

OMG....watching bodies being unloaded from a dump truck. What a heartache this is!

Is that the same little girl who was dressed in a reddish/pink plaid blouse laying among the rubble with her right leg still buried? They were patting her cheek and giving her bits of food and water sips.

She was talking to them, and the majority of her body was not harmed and moving freely.

Is that the one who has now suddenly died? :(

[Ionmhainn]

Is that the same little girl who was dressed in a reddish/pink plaid blouse laying among the rubble with her right leg still buried? They were patting her cheek and giving her bits of food and water sips.

She was talking to them, and the majority of her body was not harmed and moving freely.

Is that the one who has now suddenly died? :(

Yes, I'm afraid so. I think they said she had been taken to an aid station, but her injuries were too serious and she was sent to a hospital 80 miles away. She died on the way. The other reporter (can't recall his name) told AC that her leg had been buried to the upper thigh, and that the whole ordeal had just been too much for her. They were told that she had already been buried in her mother's home town.
Her mother had not been told yet as she had already lost so many other relatives. :sad:

[Humdinger]

Thank you for the response, this makes me SO sad. For whatever reason, it was almost as though I had 'connected' to her because I thought based on her appearance, she was most definitely going to be a survivor.

God Bless her little soul. :rose:

[Details]

Yes, I'm afraid so. I think they said she had been taken to an aid station, but her injuries were too serious and she was sent to a hospital 80 miles away. She died on the way. The other reporter (can't recall his name) told AC that her leg had been buried to the upper thigh, and that the whole ordeal had just been too much for her. They were told that she had already been buried in her mother's home town.
Her mother had not been told yet as she had already lost so many other relatives. :sad:It's horrible. The hospitals are all as wrecked as the rest of the place, and many of the Doctors without borders doctors were caught up in the quake.

Sad, they fought so hard to save her. That type of damage though - it can poison your entire body. It's what other survivors with more minor injuries risk too - infection setting in now.

[Dukensam]

Hi dannie .... I don't think that's going to happen, because President Obama has granted them "protected status".

JMO Right on.

U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano announced Friday that she is designating a temporary protected status for Haitian nationals who were in the United States as of Tuesday. Napolitano said the temporary status allows an estimated 100,000 to 200,000 Haitian nationals in the nation illegally to stay in the United States for 18 months.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/16/haiti.updates.sat/

[JennyM]

The devil wrote him a letter. :laugh:

http://www.startribune.com/opinion/letters/81595442.html?elr=KArksc8P:Pc:UUUnciaec8O7EyUr

[pixiejoolz]

Some believe he can read a prepared speech but what evidence is there that he can write well, I'd bet any Obama piece appearing in Newsweek will be written by someone other than Obama. This will be similar to garden-gate, more deception.

bbm

The Audacity of Hope is evidence that he can write beautifully. Have you read it?:thumbup:

[syringa]

I'm glad to see he has time to take away from healthcare reform, the State of the Union speech, helping Martha Coakley in MA and not rest until the terrorists are brought to justice to write this piece.

[Zanzi]

And then there is this guy.



http://thinkprogress.org/2010/01/15/steve-king-haiti/

Truly unbelievable.

Such a nice thread..... and then this pops up. :rolleyes:

[Fire-N-Ice]

Well Fire, I think those that have led sheltered lives, never having to do without basic needs like running water, food or shelter, have no comprehension of how hopeless, sad and depressing it can be. So perhaps we should pray for him and couple others that have been in the spotlight recently that God forgives them.

Very sad Dukensam. It might not hurt to have those people live that way for a few weeks to see what life on the other side is like. I agree with you completely that they have no comprehension what it is like.

Karma can be a real eye opener, and I agree, perhaps prayer would help those that are make statements like that or worse. The sad part about it would be they truly believe they are justified in saying those things. I'll never understand it. It's fine in their eyes to invade a country for bogus reasons, destroy it and it's infrastructure, and cost billions of dollars. Plus the loss of life on both sides.

That type of thing is excused and justified to no end. But let there be a natural disaster of these proportions and they can see no reason to pitch in and help relieve the suffering and damage. Again I'll never understand that type of mind set. IMO of course.

[hooked2]

Yes, I'm afraid so. I think they said she had been taken to an aid station, but her injuries were too serious and she was sent to a hospital 80 miles away. She died on the way. The other reporter (can't recall his name) told AC that her leg had been buried to the upper thigh, and that the whole ordeal had just been too much for her. They were told that she had already been buried in her mother's home town.
Her mother had not been told yet as she had already lost so many other relatives. :sad:

Dr. Gupta said a couple of days ago that when a person has crush injuries, something (sorry, can't remember exactly) happens in the body that causes the kidneys to shut down. I suspect that's what happened to that beautiful brave little girl. This is why all of these people need immediate medical care.

This morning, I saw that other US floating hospital just set sail from Baltimore and will arrive near the end of the week. One of the crew was interviewed and when listing what they'd be doing, he said they'd be taking care of those with crush injuries.

Well, the sad fact is that that is too little too late. The people with crush injuries won't make it to that floating hospital at the end of the week, they'll already be dead.

[ninetoes]

While I dont think anyone should claim God caused this event, I do think its safe to say He obviously didnt prevent it.

[ninetoes]

Do you have any suggestions as to how God could have prevented a natural disaster?

IMO, God can prevent or cause anything he so desires. He is all-powerfull.

[Ionmhainn]

Thank you for the response, this makes me SO sad. For whatever reason, it was almost as though I had 'connected' to her because I thought based on her appearance, she was most definitely going to be a survivor.

God Bless her little soul. :rose:

Yes, I know what you mean. I can't get her out of my mind. They said her last words were "Mother, don't let me die." :crying:

[ExArkie]

Yes, I know what you mean. I can't get her out of my mind. They said her last words were "Mother, don't let me die." :crying:

I feel so bad for this child - and all the others!! I contributed through the Salvation Army - wish I could do (and give) lots more. One thing I do not understand - why are the Israelis the only nation who have a functioning hospital up and operating? They come from so much further away than we do - and, lots of other countries, too. There must be a good reason for this - anyone know why??:sad:

[syringa]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/latinamerica/la-et-onthemedia15-2010jan15,0,7766503,print.column

I don't think it is a matter of "right or wrong" coverage. I think it is choices and alternatives.

I didn't want to watch much earthquake coverage. I am not blind, deaf or insensitive to it - I just don't like watching that kind of news. I was glad to have an alternative. I would have turned off the news on FOX too if they went wall to wall (and they HAVE shown plenty).

When coverage becomes saturated, I turn to music, the Food Network or Discover Channel.

[Ionmhainn]

I feel so bad for this child - and all the others!! I contributed through the Salvation Army - wish I could do (and give) lots more. One thing I do not understand - why are the Israelis the only nation who have a functioning hospital up and operating? They come from so much further away than we do - and, lots of other countries, too. There must be a good reason for this - anyone know why??:sad:

Hi, ExArkie. Nice to see you posting again.

Re the Israelis...I can only imagine they might have more experience, via their own troubles? "Mass" planning may be the culprit here, imo. How to deal with this massive undertaking, rather than "one step at a time?"

[hooked2]

General Honore's going to be on CNN with Chris Lemmon in a minute, he's apparently a CNN contributor now. I wish Hillary had taken him with her! Or that they'd at least fly him down to hang out with Anderson or Sanjay. I bet within 15 minutes, he'd have all of the Haitians forming a human conveyor belt getting all supplies out and over the road blocks and into the communities. So many healthy Haitians wandering aimlessly that need a focus and to feel like they have a purpose and can help and survive.

[JennyM]

IMO, God can prevent or cause anything he so desires. He is all-powerfull.

Does that mean Robertson might be right?

[Humdinger]

General Honore is absoutely correct, imo, and I was heartened by what he said. Let's hope that the powers that be are listening! I realize that this situation is almost beyond comprehension, which can lead to a sort of paralysis of thought, but supplies sitting on tarmacs aren't helping anybody. That, at least, should be obvious. I'm not really sure you can take the time to "plan ahead" in these circumstances. Just start!

I saw the rerun of the report you were talking about with the food truck issues and the medical personnel abandoning those in need. I have a couple of questions though that you may know?

WHY did medics leave like that!? Outrageous!

Also, the food truck issue was a complete disaster due to those grown men fighting like that at the truck, pushing, bullying their way like barbarians to the point that one poor mother holding her toddler who was being tromped over and shoved about, OMG I just knew she was going to drop that baby!

And then to make it worse, they're throwing the food on the ground complaining that the date-code is off!? I mean REALLY, people are trying to HELP THEM! It painted a very poor picture for the public to see, and they're talking on other places of the 'net about the fact that it's making people want to STOP giving to aid these people. I hope that doesn't happen, but they need to start mandating that people actually "form a line" to receive food and water in some sort of half-orderly fashion.

That poor mother and her baby got NOTHING from that truck, thanks to the bigger males acting like they did. :sad:

[Details]

Yeah, if anyone there is still worrying about security - this is not the time - but they should form large groups - there are many criminals escaped from prison, and people desperate for food and water. I kinda understand about the bars - after so many days, some of the reports, people are paranoid, wondering why no help, and in a country where the elites get, and the poor don't - they might be very ready to believe they were given rotten expired food to eat. But so sad, since they need that food so badly.

The little girl - the destroyed and damaged muscle gets into the blood stream, the kidneys and such try to filter it out, and get overwhelmed, shut down, and that's it - a non-medical explanation of why crush injuries like this are so deadly. If the limb is amputated by the accident, at least the decaying tissue isn't still attached - but when it's crush, the good tissue is mixed with crushed and destroyed tissue, and blood flow may be continuing, spreading poison. Bad stuff.

[ninetoes]

Does that mean Robertson might be right?

How would I know? I dont claim to try and second guess what God thinks or does. I just said I believe He has the power to contol the weather and other "natural" disasters should He choose to do so.

[JennyM]

How would I know? I dont claim to try and second guess what God thinks or does. I just said I believe He has the power to contol the weather and other "natural" disasters should He choose to do so.

Interesting. Most people think Robertson is wrong.

[ninetoes]

Interesting. Most people think Robertson is wrong.

Do I think it happened because of some "deal with the devil"? Nope. Do I think the prophecies of the Bible are being carried out daily around the world? yep. Does that include horrendous natural disasters and loss of life? yes, it does.

[JennyM]

The roads are all buckled with huge cracks and covered with debree. Bull dozers have arrived but they cannot just bulldoze rubble until they can ascertain if there are any survivors trapped under it. As for the port, the entire pier collapsed into the water and there is no place for the ships to dock. The manpower is there as well as the willingness to distribute the supples. There just is no way to do it at this point.

Ahhhh, an informed poster...thanks!

[JennyM]

Maybe you can adopt some of them.

Twins, maybe.

:laugh:

:punch: ,,,,,

[JennyM]

Do I think it happened because of some "deal with the devil"? Nope. Do I think the prophecies of the Bible are being carried out daily around the world? yep. Does that include horrendous natural disasters and loss of life? yes, it does.

You said you didn't know if Robertson was right or wrong, but now you agree he was wrong.

Horrendous natural disasters and loss of life...that's been happening for a long, long time, don't you think?

[ninetoes]

I don't think it is a matter of "right or wrong" coverage. I think it is choices and alternatives.

I didn't want to watch much earthquake coverage. I am not blind, deaf or insensitive to it - I just don't like watching that kind of news. I was glad to have an alternative. I would have turned off the news on FOX too if they went wall to wall (and they HAVE shown plenty).

When coverage becomes saturated, I turn to music, the Food Network or Discover Channel.

Same here. I dont watch ongoing coverage of any major disaster, but then Im not big on television in general.

[ninetoes]

You said you didn't know if Robertson was right or wrong, but now you agree he was wrong.

Horrendous natural disasters and loss of life...that's been happening for a long, long time, don't you think?

Been happening, yes...but getting worse and worse. Like I said, I wont speak for God, and say for certain who is right or wrong. I will say, one more time, if God had so desired, He could have prevented what happened.

[JennyM]

Been happening, yes...but getting worse and worse. Like I said, I wont speak for God, and say for certain who is right or wrong. I will say, one more time, if God had so desired, He could have prevented what happened.

Since you disagree with Robertson it's the same thing as saying you think he's wrong.

[ninetoes]

Since you disagree with Robertson it's the same thing as saying you think he's wrong.

if it makes you feel better to think that way, that's fine.

[JennyM]

if it makes you feel better to think that way, that's fine.

It does. It gives me hope.

[LisaM22]

While I dont think anyone should claim God caused this event, I do think its safe to say He obviously didnt prevent it.

I think we can all agree with that ninetoes

I think some might go even further and say a god has never caused or prevented any natural disaster on earth

[Tracian]

if it makes you feel better to think that way, that's fine.


Okay, I am confused.

Do you agree with him or not.

You don't have to answer, but I am lost.

[LisaM22]

Do I think it happened because of some "deal with the devil"? Nope. Do I think the prophecies of the Bible are being carried out daily around the world? yep. Does that include horrendous natural disasters and loss of life? yes, it does.

what prophecies of the bible are you referring too?

[ninetoes]

I think we can all agree with that ninetoes

I think some might go even further and say a god has never caused or prevented any natural disaster on earth

How would we know if He prevented one? For all I know, He may have prevented millions of them.

[ninetoes]

Okay, I am confused.

Do you agree with him or not.

You don't have to answer, but I am lost.

I believe his reasons were wrong, meaning the deal with the devil stuff is off, but I do believe we are heading toward the end of times, and God is most certainly involved.

[Ionmhainn]

I saw the rerun of the report you were talking about with the food truck issues and the medical personnel abandoning those in need. I have a couple of questions though that you may know?

WHY did medics leave like that!? Outrageous!

Also, the food truck issue was a complete disaster due to those grown men fighting like that at the truck, pushing, bullying their way like barbarians to the point that one poor mother holding her toddler who was being tromped over and shoved about, OMG I just knew she was going to drop that baby!

And then to make it worse, they're throwing the food on the ground complaining that the date-code is off!? I mean REALLY, people are trying to HELP THEM! It painted a very poor picture for the public to see, and they're talking on other places of the 'net about the fact that it's making people want to STOP giving to aid these people. I hope that doesn't happen, but they need to start mandating that people actually "form a line" to receive food and water in some sort of half-orderly fashion.

That poor mother and her baby got NOTHING from that truck, thanks to the bigger males acting like they did. :sad:

BBM. To the best of my recollection, it was the UN who ordered the doctors to pack up and move, citing security concerns. Sanjay Gupta said he didn't think they wanted to leave.

I think that some of the people were concerned that the food was old and not safe. Goodness knows we have all heard about out-of-date goods being shipped to other places in the past! But, I really think panic is totally understandable here. I heard of at least one properly set up distrubution point where people did wait in orderly lines, so I feel that if the help is offered in a more organized way, the people will follow suit. A truck in the middle of nowhere bearing armed guards probably only feeds the "grab it while you can" response. imo

[JennyM]

BBM. To the best of my recollection, it was the UN who ordered the doctors to pack up and move, citing security concerns. Sanjay Gupta said he didn't think they wanted to leave.

snip

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/16/haiti.abandoned.patients/index.html?hpt=T2

Belgian Chief Coordinator Geert Gijs, a doctor who was at the hospital with 60 Belgian medical personnel, said it was his decision to pull the team out for the night. Gijs said he requested U.N. security personnel to staff the hospital overnight, but was told that peacekeepers would only be able to evacuate the team.

[Ionmhainn]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/16/haiti.abandoned.patients/index.html?hpt=T2

Belgian Chief Coordinator Geert Gijs, a doctor who was at the hospital with 60 Belgian medical personnel, said it was his decision to pull the team out for the night. Gijs said he requested U.N. security personnel to staff the hospital overnight, but was told that peacekeepers would only be able to evacuate the team.

Thanks for the update. I was going by the little information SG and AC had at the time. Either way SJ was left alone with only his crew to help him. :sad:

[LisaM22]

I believe his reasons were wrong, meaning the deal with the devil stuff is off, but I do believe we are heading toward the end of times, and God is most certainly involved.

how long you think we got before this end of times is upon us ninetoes

[theal3]

Some believe he can read a prepared speech but what evidence is there that he can write well, I'd bet any Obama piece appearing in Newsweek will be written by someone other than Obama. This will be similar to garden-gate, more deception.

He's written best selling books before becoming President and speech at 2004 convention.

This article explains it. And yes he has speech writers, as all president's do, but he's hands on.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837368,00.html

[RedSocksFan]

I'm glad to see he has time to take away from healthcare reform, the State of the Union speech, helping Martha Coakley in MA and not rest until the terrorists are brought to justice to write this piece.

Wow, I saw him tonight on the weather channel and now this. He is everywhere and it is disturbing to me.

[theal3]

Wow, I saw him tonight on the weather channel and now this. He is everywhere and it is disturbing to me.

You have to admire young, healthy, energetic, multi-taskers with good work ethics. The youngest boomers are much more like that in this age of technology.

[Carol25]

Wow, I saw him tonight on the weather channel and now this. He is everywhere and it is disturbing to me.

Oh my! The weather channel?! Next he'll be selling Health Care Reform on QVC!

I do believe that the president is a marvelous writer and we all know he is a great speaker. However, there are so many things on his desk right now, where in the world does he have time to be a journalist for Newsweek and then a stumper for Coakl;ey and a sales operson and negotiater for Healthcare and I hope he has time for the economy and so many other things.

I am beginning to wonder just how much of this stuff does he delegate out and he he does the photo ops thing. I know that sounds ridiculous, but could someone else have too much of his confidence. That reminds me of times when Rahm was having interviews about public policy and not Obama. Nah.. Couldn't be.

[Carol25]

You have to admire young, healthy, energetic, multi-taskers with good work ethics. The youngest boomers are much more like that in this age of technology.
Theal. I really like you! You are such an optimist. :smile: And some times you have a reason, too. I know we differ politically, but that doesn't change my respect for you. You are a good person!

[Carol25]

You really lost me on that one, ATB. What did that have to do with my post? I appreciated the positive messages Theal writes. Something you should annalyze. It really makes you respect him/her.

[Keegan]

how long you think we got before this end of times is upon us ninetoes

There are 220 dates for the end of the world.

http://www.bible.ca/pre-date-setters.htm

Guess this is number 221.

[JennyM]

Wow, I saw him tonight on the weather channel and now this. He is everywhere and it is disturbing to me.

It's not good to be disturbed.

[JennyM]

Thanks for the update. I was going by the little information SG and AC had at the time. Either way SJ was left alone with only his crew to help him. :sad:

Thank goodness SJ was there!

Best ways to help: http://www.charitywatch.org/hottopics/Haiti.html

[ninetoes]

how long you think we got before this end of times is upon us ninetoes

How would I know? The Bible is very clear about man predicting actual dates.

[ninetoes]

He also could have prevented all the world's nations coming together for the common good of helping these people. But he didn't.

Yep. He could have.

[RedSocksFan]

It's not good to be disturbed.

I am not "disturbed" but can't help note that Obama's constant presence is creepy. He was on the weather channel last night. He has been seen on every possible avenue.

I find this practice of being present everywhere all the time to be narcissistic and reminiscent of past dictators. Are we going to have large pictures of him all over the place soon?

[JennyM]

I am not "disturbed" but can't help note that Obama's constant presence is creepy. He was on the weather channel last night. He has been seen on every possible avenue.

I find this practice of being present everywhere all the time to be narcissistic and reminiscent of past dictators. Are we going to have large pictures of him all over the place soon?

When did we have a dictator?

[jammies]

I am not "disturbed" but can't help note that Obama's constant presence is creepy. He was on the weather channel last night. He has been seen on every possible avenue.

I find this practice of being present everywhere all the time to be narcissistic and reminiscent of past dictators. Are we going to have large pictures of him all over the place soon?


Did you see him in "church" today? Can't find a church in DC, didn't attend Christmas services but by GOLLY he flew to Mass. to deliver his political message. We may not get transparency from this admin. yet funny how they are so blatently see through!

Oh....and for all those "separation of church and state" folks: :laugh:

[ninetoes]

That's not clear - has happened since biblical times, even in the Bible.

If you are really interested, I would suggest reading the book of Revelations, as well as "The Last days", and "The Book of Revelations for Blockheads".

[JennyM]

how long you think we got before this end of times is upon us ninetoes

Faulty Assumptions distort endtime prophecy

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/endtime/index.html

[JennyM]

snip
BTW, have you heard whether Oprah has turned loose of any of her millions for this cause? You would think she might, considering.

Oprah Winfrey and her non-profit organization, Angel Network have donated $1 million to the relief efforts through the Red Cross.

[JennyM]

http://lynnish.tripod.com/AD79.html

PROPHECY PARADOX: The Case for a First Century End Time
By Lynn Schuldt

Were the end times 2000 years ago?
Learn the facts. Then decide.

Nearly 2000 years ago, the first Christians lived in the last days, and the end was at hand in their immediate future. Jesus warned them of things to come in their own generation; and when they saw all those things, they would know the end was near. The origin of "end of the world" prophecies was this series of signs meant for those who lived 2000 years ago. Most theologians claim all those things have not happened; and therefore, the end time is expected in our future. Most evangelicals are waiting for Christ to return a second time.
Ms. Schuldt's carefully documented book proves that all those things happened, historically, to those people nearly 2000 years ago in their future and in their generation. The end time was therefore future to them, but past for us. Evangelicals ignore this view because they maintain that no one living when Jesus described the things to come lived to see all those things come to pass. However, scriptural and historical references in this book show the first Christians did see all those things come to pass.

Discover:

* How all Bible prophecy has been fulfilled.
* When the end times were.
* Who the Antichrist was.
* What the millennium was.
* When the kingdom of God began.
* How the seven year tribulation theory was created from Bible verses.

Lynn Schuldt is an author and researcher specializing in Bible prophecy and history of the Roman Empire. Her persistent investigations during the ten years of writing Prophecy Paradox: the Case for a First Century End Time uncovered abundant evidence for first century fulfillment of prophecy.

This book is supported by extant Greek and Roman history in conjunction with biblical history. Sources include The Life and Works of Josephus, a history of Rome by Dio Cassius, the Dead Sea Scrolls and many others. This book is unique in that the final climax is set in A.D.79 rather than A.D.70.

[JennyM]

BBM. That's a good question, to which I have not yet heard a plausible answer. JennyM posted a link upthread as to who made the decision. Post # 101

Yes, the answer is in that link...

"...a Belgian medical team evacuated the area, saying it was concerned about security."

[Ionmhainn]

Yes, the answer is in that link...

"...a Belgian medical team evacuated the area, saying it was concerned about security."

Yes, I read it and also watched an interview with the man in question.
I have to say I was not impressed. Sanjay Gupta stayed and was not attacked, as far as I know.

[Humdinger]

snip

BBM. That's a good question, to which I have not yet heard a plausible answer.


Thank you, Ion, I just feel so terribly sorry for SG. :sad:

He is quite the upstanding man who will undoubtedly be rewarded by his Maker.

[Ionmhainn]

Thank you, Ion, I just feel so terribly sorry for SG. :sad:

He is quite the upstanding man who will undoubtedly be rewarded by his Maker.

Indeed. A good, kind and compassionate soul. :smile:

[emdragon]

how long you think we got before this end of times is upon us ninetoes

Matthew 24:36

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

[Humdinger]

I just saw some news footage of Haitian Police shooting survivors who were looting.

They are running out of fuel there too.

I also saw a helicopter hovering very low and tossing out food. How dangerous is that!?! The rescuers are really risking their lives. That is the only way to get food to those starving people.

:crying::crying::crying:

The looting from grocery stores that have fallen is understandable, but there are also photos of just pure inexcusable criminal behavior where they are setting buildings on fire. As if there aren't enough problems there to deal with already!?

Bolded: No, that isn't the only way.

Yesterday footage was shown of SOME of the Haitians behaving in a very civilized manner; lining up and GRACIOUSLY accepting the food and water from the supply trucks in a very orderly fashion. Tons and tons of relief has been sent for these people by very generous givers, and some type of civilized order is the only way to ensure that everyone receives nourishment.

[Pretty Leaf]

I just saw some news footage of Haitian Police shooting survivors who were looting.

They are running out of fuel there too.

I also saw a helicopter hovering very low and tossing out food. How dangerous is that!?! The rescuers are really risking their lives. That is the only way to get food to those starving people.

:crying::crying::crying:

From what I undestood on Canadian TV is that the most of the food drops are for the remote places that are not being served by any aid at the moment.

[Ionmhainn]

And then the media talks about looting without context, shows those who resort to violence as if they represent what all the victims are like (never mind that with the prisons emptied, this could be criminals who would resort to violence even in normal situations) - pictures of shoving or issues, not any area where things are going as well as they can. And people buy into it - think this is what the victims are like, question if this type of person even deserves help - never mind that they were shown images of a few problem people out of a population of tens of thousands who need help.

BBM. Well said.

[Ionmhainn]

Infections out of control.

The Israeli field hospital is a beam of light in the darkness, imo.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/01/18/dnt.cohen.haiti.patients.dying.cnn?iref=allsearch

[Cindylee]

The reaction from our country has been extraordinary. Be it the actions of our military or civilians, it has been shown once again, that the United States is the greatest country in the world.

This is not my opinion, it is a fact.:patriot::patriot:

http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/01/18/w-22nd-marine-expeditionary-unit-in-haiti/

http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/us-military-plane-arriving-in-haiti/

I completely agree. :patriot: And those countries that are always complaining about us, we are the first that they call when they need help.

[Cindylee]

We can agree on this one, PG ....

WOW .... I noticed those planes in those pictures .... what are they, C-130's ((I don't know my planes .... lol)). They are REALLY close to the ground, aren't they ?? It almost looks like they have no landing gear ....

I think they land and then lower .

[Lady_Jean_La]

The reaction from our country has been extraordinary. Be it the actions of our military or civilians, it has been shown once again, that the United States is the greatest country in the world.

This is not my opinion, it is a fact.:patriot::patriot::patriot:

http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/01/18/w-22nd-marine-expeditionary-unit-in-haiti/

http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/us-military-plane-arriving-in-haiti/

There are many countries there doing a great job. imo

[JennyM]

There are many countries there doing a great job. imo

I agree, many countries are helping and doing a good job. But it's America that's leading the way. I am particularly proud of the aid our military is giving. :patriot:

[Humdinger]

Reporter Harry Smith produced live video tonight of the Haitians looting Flat-screen TV's, "bands of machete-wielding young men roamed the streets, faces hidden by bandanas."

Flat-screen TV's!? :scared: How pathetic.

My heart goes out to those who are entrusted with Security over there with these people.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/18/world/main6109766.shtml

[MiamiNice1]

I completely agree. :patriot: And those countries that are always complaining about us, we are the first that they call when they need help.
That's the absolute truth, Cindy!

This massive effort truly makes my heart swell with pride! :patriot:

[Patriot]

I completely agree. :patriot: And those countries that are always complaining about us, we are the first that they call when they need help.

Amen to that.

Good post, PG.

[Lady_Jean_La]

I completely agree. :patriot: And those countries that are always complaining about us, we are the first that they call when they need help.

Actually, I think China was the first to arrive with help and Israel set up the first hospital. It is a great world effort and shows how everyone can work together. I don't know if anyone was called, it just seemed the right thing to do and everyone did it. imo

[Humdinger]

Infections out of control.

The Israeli field hospital is a beam of light in the darkness, imo.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/01/18/dnt.cohen.haiti.patients.dying.cnn?iref=allsearch


Dr. Sanjay Gupta, God Bless this man, his stamina is absolutely amazing! :thumbup:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/01/18/dnt.cohen.haiti.patients.dying.cnn?iref=allsearch

[Details]

The same thing happened over here, in New Orleans, with our people.Yep - even in a disaster, criminals are still criminals. But most people are decent, and quietly waiting and looking for food, water, and any way to help others if they can.

[Humdinger]

The same thing happened over here, in New Orleans, with our people.

Yes, the exact likeness certainly is there, isn't it.

[Lady_Jean_La]

How on earth could you say that a thread talking about America, the greatest country on earth, is a bashing thread?

With that question, I don't think you would understand an answer. imo

[Ionmhainn]

I had tears in my eyes while watching Sanjay speak of hopping a plane and jetting over to do that brain surgery, then returning to his post. I have no precise word to accurately describe that man's goodness, much less talent. In a world where we assign the "hero" status so terribly inappropriately, he certainly IS the true definition. :wub:

As for AC's "rant", I saw parts of it, as well as one of the lead nurse's rants in the hospital tent who stated, "it's almost shameful to be an American", pertaining to the fact that America is so lagging behind in getting medical help and hands-on medical assistance there, not counting basic medical supplies. During her statement, she was comparing Israel to the U.S., pointing out that "Israel came from clear around the world, but where is the U.S.?"

Speaking of AC, did you see the video of him rescuing that little 12yr. old boy from those who were looting the Flat-screen TV's? The looters were throwing cement boulders down to the street from the rooftop of the building while their cohorts stole the goods. The little boy's head was absolutely GUSHING blood, and AC physically took him about a half block down to get him out of the way, then AC left his camera by the wayside and literally picked the child up and carried him to safety in hopes of finding treatment. Unless he received it quickly, I have a feeling that little boy has since died, considering his devastating injury.

CNN has the video, it is a VERY difficult watch and has multiple WARNINGS attached to it. How horribly sad that they would do that to a little boy all over a stupid Flat-screen TV in the midst of earthquake damage no less. :cursing:

BBM. Yes, I did see that. AC also put himself out there in NO. It's also notable that these reporters don't seem to be doing much whining about "security." Just getting on with their jobs...plus!

[JennyM]

Matthew 24:36

So, on one hand the Bible gives a lot of cryptic clues in Revelations, but on the other hand, it says no one will know when it's going to happen.

[witchywoman]

I had tears in my eyes while watching Sanjay speak of hopping a plane and jetting over to do that brain surgery, then returning to his post. I have no precise word to accurately describe that man's goodness, much less talent. In a world where we assign the "hero" status so terribly inappropriately, he certainly IS the true definition. :wub:

As for AC's "rant", I saw parts of it, as well as one of the lead nurse's rants in the hospital tent who stated, "it's almost shameful to be an American", pertaining to the fact that America is so lagging behind in getting medical help and hands-on medical assistance there, not counting basic medical supplies. During her statement, she was comparing Israel to the U.S., pointing out that "Israel came from clear around the world, but where is the U.S.?"

Speaking of AC, did you see the video of him rescuing that little 12yr. old boy from those who were looting the Flat-screen TV's? The looters were throwing cement boulders down to the street from the rooftop of the building while their cohorts stole the goods. The little boy's head was absolutely GUSHING blood, and AC physically took him about a half block down to get him out of the way, then AC left his camera by the wayside and literally picked the child up and carried him to safety in hopes of finding treatment. Unless he received it quickly, I have a feeling that little boy has since died, considering his devastating injury.

CNN has the video, it is a VERY difficult watch and has multiple WARNINGS attached to it. How horribly sad that they would do that to a little boy all over a stupid Flat-screen TV in the midst of earthquake damage no less. :cursing:


I watched the news, the video of ac and saw how he picked up that precious child, the boy..

it brought tears to my eye..

good for ac, may the heavens above bless him, jmo

I chant/pray that the lil boy will be ok..

[Debb]

I have had a high opinion of Anderson Cooper for years. IMO he is a VERY good person who cares for those around him. He is also an intellectual, but doesn't let that cloud his approach to life.

Google his past and you'll see that while he may have been born with a silver spoon, (Vanderbilt fortune) he has taken the road least traveled and created a wonderful career for himself. He has also suffered greatly throughout his life. (Death of his brother thought to be suicide.) I put a little photo of him up my office several years ago because it inspires me. Now it does even more.

I do worry of the long term effects of staying in that environment for reporters. They will certainly suffer from post tramatic stress disorder. How could you not?

[RedSocksFan]

I don't think it is a matter of "right or wrong" coverage. I think it is choices and alternatives.

I didn't want to watch much earthquake coverage. I am not blind, deaf or insensitive to it - I just don't like watching that kind of news. I was glad to have an alternative. I would have turned off the news on FOX too if they went wall to wall (and they HAVE shown plenty).

When coverage becomes saturated, I turn to music, the Food Network or Discover Channel.

I hear ya. It's enough to read the updates, but to sit and watch is upsetting. If I could be there and actually do something to help, it would be different but to sit in my living room and continually watch the suffering is too much to bear and it makes me feel helpless.

[EMAA]

So, on one hand the Bible gives a lot of cryptic clues in Revelations, but on the other hand, it says no one will know when it's going to happen.

That is correct.

When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. Luke 21:28.

[femquest]

I've just read every post on this thread. Been watching CNN endlessly. Your praise for Sanjay Gupta and Anderson Cooper is so well deserved. Each should be getting some kind of humanitarian award. God bless them.

[Cooper]

That is correct.

When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. Luke 21:28.


Oh, you must be speaking about the Christian bible. Mine has no such text.

[VC2]

I've just read every post on this thread. Been watching CNN endlessly. Your praise for Sanjay Gupta and Anderson Cooper is so well deserved. Each should be getting some kind of humanitarian award. God bless them.

I will never ever forget the video of Sanjay looking haunted, scared, non plussed, in disbelief that there were 25 critical patients and the docs just up and left..while trying to explain it, the ambulance came with 3 more traumatic amputations and he was almost shell shocked, saying "well bring them out, lets see them, i guess all they have is me". I was up all night keeping up with the tweets, felt so terrible for he and his crew and the patients.

When he turned em over the next day, he decided to ask Gary Tuchman to follow up with "fresh eyes". I almost laughed bc i had a feeling he didn't want to get near those docs in case he told them what he thought of them.

It was really above and beyond. I think he was stunned to the core as a medical professional as much as the mammoth task he had to keep all of them alive, that they would just leave taking all equipment.

[Ionmhainn]

I thought the same thing. Why would Israel be able to set up medical stations and we can't? I just don't understand. Anderson said that people keep saying they are accessing the situation, but that a week after the quake, accessment should have develped into action and he was very upset that there was so little development in that area.

Is there any explanation? Can our country not learn anything from past mistakes?

I think AC is pretty much on the money on this one. "Overthink." (my term)

There have been several instances where these reporters have been instrumental in getting aid to places previously overlooked. Some things have taken a while to "sink in" for me...such as a hospital ship needing to enlist Sanjay Gupta to perform surgery! It really boggles the mind!

[Ionmhainn]

An elderly woman rescued from the rubble of the cathedral...today! :smile:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/01/19/sanchez.cooper.woman.rescued.cnn

[theal3]

MrTibbs .... Your link doesn't work.

Ditto. Link doesn't work.

[annalyzer]

Here is the link to that site.

http://whatdoesitmean.com/

:rolleyes:

[theal3]

Whoa, what a strange web site and article. I couldn't figure out what the point was, as it was an article about lots of things form the past regarding military weapons etc. and Iran? Guess my college degree, shortchanged me. I couldn't comprehend the point of the article. It was like the UFO stuff I read sometimes. IMHO.

[Humdinger]

An elderly woman rescued from the rubble of the cathedral...today! :smile:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/01/19/sanchez.cooper.woman.rescued.cnn


Amazing, simply amazing! No less in a Cathedral for nearly a week, not a grocery store where she could have survived on water, other liquids and solid nourishment.

The vastness of it all really does leave you without adequate words.

The woman also found alive yesterday, (I think), after spending countless days wedged ON HER KNEES, between a wall, .... I mean really, how long could you stand to be on your knees, even in the comfortable environment of your home, well-fed, hydrated and your body temperature regulated accordingly, much less in 90+ heat, your mental capacity draining with dread just as quickly as your physical stamina?

It's all just so surreal to truly imagine ones self being in some of these situations.

This man's dilemma about broke my heart as well. :(

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/01/19/sanchez.cooper.woman.rescued.cnn

[watcher2005]

Time is better spent attending to the bad things that governments do openly.


But didn't Clinton's Secretary of Defense in the late 90s give some kind of warning about possible earthquake weapons at a press conference?

[Noah]

Fox News is reporting that it's a 6.0.

The reporter said he's not sure about what kind of damage has been done. Their hotel was shaking and they weren't sure if it would fall.

No links yet.

[Noah]

New earthquake hits Haita - this one was a 6.0.

No links available yet. Fox News was reporting.

I started a new thread about it - CW can merge it here if she wants to, I just wanted everyone to see it.

Those poor people. :(

[Noah]

Fox News is now reporting that it was a 6.1 aftershock.

[Noah]

Fox News is now reporting it was a 6.1 aftershock.

[witchywoman]

I've just read every post on this thread. Been watching CNN endlessly. Your praise for Sanjay Gupta and Anderson Cooper is so well deserved. Each should be getting some kind of humanitarian award. God bless them.

I agree, ditto what you just said, both deserve a humanitarian award,mo

[JennyM]

Oh, you must be speaking about the Christian bible. Mine has no such text.

Which bible do you adhere by?

[Humdinger]

Fox News is now reporting it was a 6.1 aftershock.

I'm not doubting your report, Noah, but I have CNN on and they're talking politics and finance as if it's just another day in the life!

Not one word about this aftershock!

Good grief, has this subject suddenly become THAT mundane to people!? :rolleyes:

[tootie]

Wow. I didn't know they had another one. This is terrible. :sad: Prayers for the surviving Haitians and all that are over there trying to help.

[happy2bme]

These poor people. I feel so bad for them. I can not begin to imagine the hell they are living in.

[Zanzi]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/cb_haiti_earthquake

[CC I See]

Interesting map....

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/HaitiEarthquake/haiti-earthquake-fault-line-visible-space-shuttle/story?id=9593349

[Ionmhainn]

This report is very upsetting. A mother cannot visit her daughter in hospital because armed security turns her away. Her words may offend some, but are totally understandable to me. There was no security problem there! Medical supplies are the prority here, or at least they should be!

Scroll down to video entitled Mixed welcome....

http://us.cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2010/01/20/tuchman.haiti.elderly.cnn

[Ionmhainn]

I'm not doubting your report, Noah, but I have CNN on and they're talking politics and finance as if it's just another day in the life!

Not one word about this aftershock!

Good grief, has this subject suddenly become THAT mundane to people!? :rolleyes:

BBM. I sure hope not. I think calling this an "an aftershock" is a bit of an understatement! When I lived in the Aleutians we were rattlled with great regularity and we would have considered a 6 a "biggie."

In this instance one can only imagine the added fear and distress. :sad:

[Details]

This report is very upsetting. A mother cannot visit her daughter in hospital because armed security turns her away. Her words may offend some, but are totally understandable to me. There was no security problem there! Medical supplies are the prority here, or at least they should be!

Scroll down to video entitled Mixed welcome....

http://us.cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2010/01/20/tuchman.haiti.elderly.cnnSecurity is needed (the earthquake broke the prison and let all the criminals out!), and the hospitals there are so overpacked, I'd think no visitors would be allowed, period. Doctors and nurses are needed to work on the victims, not be there to direct family members, update them, make sure they leave when they may be tiring the victim's out.

[Ionmhainn]

Security is needed, and the hospitals there are so overpacked, I'd think no visitors would be allowed, period. Doctors and nurses are needed to work on the victims, not be there to direct family members, update them, make sure they leave when they may be tiring the victim's out.

My impression, in that particular report, was that the arrival of armed troops was bound to cause resentment. You have to question all the excuses given re the "difficulties" of delivering medical supplies when the "guns" had no trouble getting there, albeit a week later! Most of the reporting indicates that trouble spots are few and far between.

[Details]

My impression, in that particular report, was that the arrival of armed troops was bound to cause resentment. You have to question all the excuses given re the "difficulties" of delivering medical supplies when the "guns" had no trouble getting there, albeit a week later! Most of the reporting indicates that trouble spots are few and far between.Honestly, I think it's far more about the hospital being purely overloaded with patients, than with a fear of violence or theft - although there no doubt is some issue of that - if someone starts stealing drugs, either to sell, or for a friend of theirs who needs them, soon the hospital would be empty.

But - they're handling ridiculous quantities of patients - if each one came with merely one relative, the hospital might well burst at the seams. I sure understand wanting to see your loved one, especially when it may be your last chance to see them alive, you want to help, comfort them, make sure they are well cared for, but in this circumstance - it may just not be realistic.

[Ionmhainn]

Honestly, I think it's far more about the hospital being purely overloaded with patients, than with a fear of violence or theft - although there no doubt is some issue of that - if someone starts stealing drugs, either to sell, or for a friend of theirs who needs them, soon the hospital would be empty.

But - they're handling ridiculous quantities of patients - if each one came with merely one relative, the hospital might well burst at the seams. I sure understand wanting to see your loved one, especially when it may be your last chance to see them alive, you want to help, comfort them, make sure they are well cared for, but in this circumstance - it may just not be realistic.

I think looters might be hard pressed to find much to loot in the hospitals, from what I can see. Doctors having to use vodka to clean instruments...having to buy hacksaws in local markets to do amputations....!!

That mother was bringing soup for her daughter, which probably means that there is no food available there. I got the impression she had visited before.

Something wrong with priorities here, imo. Terribly wrong. :sad:

[Humdinger]

But - they're handling ridiculous quantities of patients - if each one came with merely one relative, the hospital might well burst at the seams.

Once again, a little humanity goes a long way. Hmmm, where have we heard that before, I wonder? :wink:

The love and comfort of A (singular), loving, caring parent or friend could also speed up healing; a proven fact in the Scientific Medical field.

[Humdinger]

Is there a reason this tragic thread was taken off of STICKY status, while "JOKES" and such IS a STICKY!?

Anyone know?:confused:

[Ionmhainn]

Once again, a little humanity goes a long way. Hmmm, where have we heard that before, I wonder? :wink:

The love and comfort of A (singular), loving, caring parent or friend could also speed up healing; a proven fact in the Scientific Medical field.

BBM. I've thought of that so often when I see scenes from the makeshift hospitals. Patients lying alone, probably not knowing whether their families are alive or not. This is truly heartbreaking.

One hospital had only a dwindling supply of Motrin to offer post-op patients.

TG for AC and the others who continue to ask...where are the supplies?

[Ionmhainn]

I hear ya. It's enough to read the updates, but to sit and watch is upsetting. If I could be there and actually do something to help, it would be different but to sit in my living room and continually watch the suffering is too much to bear and it makes me feel helpless.

I find it upsetting too, but it has the opposite effect on me. I can't turn away. Lots of talk about what's "on the way", but some hospitals are having to use vodka or plain soapy water to cleanse instruments...buying hacksaws from local markets to use for amputations. One had only Motrin to offer for post-op relief. Today.

Meanwhile, supplies still sit at the airport while thousands suffer. I've heard all the reasons, but they are weak at best, imo.

[Details]

Once again, a little humanity goes a long way. Hmmm, where have we heard that before, I wonder? :wink:

The love and comfort of A (singular), loving, caring parent or friend could also speed up healing; a proven fact in the Scientific Medical field.True - but in a hospital pushed so far beyond capacity, it ALSO means one more person who CANNOT receive medical care. This is not the easy solution - let mommy in, and tell another person who NEEDS an operation that there's no more space.

The slight benefit of having family there doesn't compare to the need they have for every square inch of space in that hospital to be used by patients, nurses, and doctors.

If there were no crush of patients needing to be seen, heck yes, let everyone in. But there is.

[Ionmhainn]

True - but in a hospital pushed so far beyond capacity, it ALSO means one more person who CANNOT receive medical care. This is not the easy solution - let mommy in, and tell another person who NEEDS an operation that there's no more space.

The slight benefit of having family there doesn't compare to the need they have for every square inch of space in that hospital to be used by patients, nurses, and doctors.

If there were no crush of patients needing to be seen, heck yes, let everyone in. But there is.

Respectfully, those wanting to visit their relatives are not going to prevent anyone from receiving care! This mother was bringing soup for her daughter. Outside every hospital you see family members patiently waiting for their loved ones to be attended to. They are not trying to enter the hospital, or cause any trouble. Some doctors are sharing their own food with their patients because supplies....including food...are not reaching them. I would imagine they would be nothing but grateful to have family members provide what they can.

[Cindylee]

I find it upsetting too, but it has the opposite effect on me. I can't turn away. Lots of talk about what's "on the way", but some hospitals are having to use vodka or plain soapy water to cleanse instruments...buying hacksaws from local markets to use for amputations. One had only Motrin to offer for post-op relief. Today.

Meanwhile, supplies still sit at the airport while thousands suffer. I've heard all the reasons, but they are weak at best, imo.

I was watching Anderson 360, and they brought up something I hadn't thought of......what do you do with all of the people who have had surgeries? They have no homes to go to, no caregivers. This is so bad.
:crying:

[Humdinger]

True - but in a hospital pushed so far beyond capacity, it ALSO means one more person who CANNOT receive medical care. This is not the easy solution - let mommy in, and tell another person who NEEDS an operation that there's no more space.



Considering the fact that mommy isn't going to require a bed, nor personal medical care, nor supplies, nor a surgical room, the scenario you have given is preposterous! :rolleyes:

[Details]

They were looting Flat-screen TV's just a couple of short days after the quake, not "almost a week".

And how, exactly, is bashing in the skull of an innocent 12 yr. old boy going to aid in their own supposed angst of an earthquake!?

Aside from that, let's pretend those looters were 'thirsty' .... :rolleyes: .... were they going to DRINK those Flat Screen TV's then to satiate their thirst?

Hardly.No - but these are criminals, and no doubt were before the earthquake, and likely represent some of the prisoners who escaped from the jail. I don't think the earthquake changed them in any way, other than in letting them not worry about cops. Sad, but it happens in any situation like this - the criminals in the crowd do what criminals do - look for any opportunity to get something for nothing.

Still, it seems pointless to focus on - it doesn't represent Haitians, it doesn't make the proper scavenging of supplies to survive wrong, nor looting, it doesn't mean there aren't plenty of good people there who desperately need their help.

[Details]

Plus.. visitors bringing germs into a place where massive numbers of people are fighting infections probably isn't a good thing.True - not a lot of sanitation possible for the visitors, when so many are living in the streets right now, among corpses and a lack of clean food and water.

[Humdinger]

snip

Still, it seems pointless to focus on

If you think anyone is "focusing on" the looting of Flat-Screen TV's, then you need to read the multitude of posts which don't even speak of these atrocities, many of mine included. There are many, and my most recent one was in response to Adverse Party who wished to claim that these looters are just "hungry & thirsty".

I do believe though that a tragedy of this magnitude deserves to be discussed in TRUTH of what is happening, the good, the bad & the ugly; as Adverse Party so astutely pointed out, there are GLARING similarities with these people to Katrina.

Odd, CNN seems to share my belief.

[Humdinger]

snip

And yes, they let that man's mother in - for a bit of help - and as he was dying.



And they should have let the other mother in as well, if not for only 5 minutes to see that her daughter was "well", and to deliver the soup.

Sometimes, an act of kindness that would in turn last for days, only takes 5 minutes.

[Ionmhainn]

I'm dismayed by the focus on looting, when all the reporters seem to be in agreement that these episodes are sporadic and not widespread.
These overblown fears have caused lots of delays in distribution already, which is a crying shame, imo. Let's hope this paranoia settles down.

I've seen lots of coverage of the field hospitals, and lots of relatives providing some comfort to their loved ones...even if it's simply fanning them. I haven't heard any reports of them trying to steal anything. I haven't seen any...doctors...send them away either.

Perhaps it's easier to feel anger at the looters, than to feel helpless when we see so many in pain and distress? It might serve us well to remember that anger is also a part of grieving.
MO

[Ionmhainn]

I was watching Anderson 360, and they brought up something I hadn't thought of......what do you do with all of the people who have had surgeries? They have no homes to go to, no caregivers. This is so bad.
:crying:

It is indeed. Surgery is only the beginning. It saves lives in the short term, but without the proper drugs and aftercare, many of these patients may still perish. The frustrations expressed by the doctors is hearbreaking. They have the all the skills needed , but are hindered in their efforts by the lack of the most basic equipment and medications.
:sad:

ETA...there is also a thread on Open Court.

[Humdinger]

I'm dismayed by the focus on looting, when all the reporters seem to be in agreement that these episodes are sporadic and not widespread.
These overblown fears have caused lots of delays in distribution already, which is a crying shame, imo. Let's hope this paranoia settles down.

I've seen lots of coverage of the field hospitals, and lots of relatives providing some comfort to their loved ones...even if it's simply fanning them. I haven't heard any reports of them trying to steal anything. I haven't seen any...doctors...send them away either.

Perhaps it's easier to feel anger at the looters, than to feel helpless when we see so many in pain and distress? It might serve us well to remember that anger is also a part of grieving.
MO

Good post! :thumbup:

[Ionmhainn]

A good article explaining how some manage to survive being buried for days.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/20/haiti.earthquake.survivors/index.html?iref=allsearch

[Ionmhainn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlbPSAyOz-c

How hungry can they be if they are throwing away good food?

This is from several days ago. There was confusion re manufacture and expiration date.

[Humdinger]

snip

My claim was that as we all sit comfortably in our homes, we should not pass judgment on the level of graciousness we perceive shown on the faces of victims receiving donated goods.

When the more fragile, smaller mothers holding their babies are beaten down by the bigger thugs on day TWO no less of this earthquake, yes, some civilized behavior is reasonable to expect when the entire world is attempting to aid this situation.

And because that didn't happen is exactly why the food truck pulled away with the majority of its cargo still on board; to escape the unruly melee.

The lesson was learned, as the very next day, there were respectful lines formed by those people and guess what? This time, even the mothers and babies received those donations; a wonderful sight to see. :thumbup:

[Humdinger]

snip

The people standing in lines, not looking as gracious as you think they should, are victims waiting to receive help.


No one said anything about "how they look", :rolleyes: because as they finally learned to do, receiving donated nourishment in a civilized, orderly fashion shows plenty of graciousness and speaks for itself without having to have a "certain look" - wherever you got that one from.

And BTW, the hundreds of thugs storming that supply truck and beating down the women in that mess, including the ones holding babies had nothing to do with "the criminals".

You're confusing the two when in fact, they are completely separate entities.