1-5-10 - 1-7

[frankdrack]

It looks like yesterday's thread ended.

[Tia]

It looks like yesterday's thread ended.

Good Morning Frank.

It would be nice to get more info today. Yesterday's discussion was very interesting!!

[frankdrack]

Good Morning Frank.

It would be nice to get more info today. Yesterday's discussion was very interesting!!

Yes we learned a lot yesterday from the new inormation contained in the SW.

[jerry50]

Responding to the fact that Brad Cooper's children were taken away:
Besides the fact that he mentioned suicide, Nancy's murder was the result of an argument gone bad and not premeditated as Michelle's. Brad was volatile which put the children at risk immediately. It didn't take LE long to realize that JY planned Michelle's murder and that his plan included leaving Cassidy alive since she was found unharmed.
He was trying to stay out of jail and harming Cassidy after Michelle's murder would be a lot harder to do and still come up with an unbreakable alibi.

[Tia]

Yes we learned a lot yesterday from the new inormation contained in the SW.

Yes. The information painted a much clearer picture of what happened that night.

[Tia]

Responding to the fact that Brad Cooper's children were taken away:
Besides the fact that he mentioned suicide, Nancy's murder was the result of an argument gone bad and not premeditated as Michelle's. Brad was volatile which put the children at risk immediately. It didn't take LE long to realize that JY planned Michelle's murder and that his plan included leaving Cassidy alive since she was found unharmed.
He was trying to stay out of jail and harming Cassidy after Michelle's murder would be a lot harder to do and still come up with an unbreakable alibi.

And look at Susan Powell. That case is REALLY hinky with the hubby, and he still has custody of his kids.

You just can't go around yanking children away from their parents until there is good reason. When the Fisher's had enough evidence, they went to civil court and filed a custody suit. They won.
nuff said:tongue:

[annalyzer]

Good Morning Frank.

It would be nice to get more info today. Yesterday's discussion was very interesting!!

When I asked why didn't Cassidy answer the phone I hadn't read the post right and thought it said Jason was trying to call Michelle numerous times that morning. We need to bring that post over here. So why did Jason call Michelle so many times that night? :unsure:

Yep I agree, those phone calls will hang him.

[Tia]

When I asked why didn't Cassidy answer the phone I hadn't read the post right and thought it said Jason was trying to call Michelle numerous times that morning. We need to bring that post over here. So why did Jason call Michelle so many times that night? :unsure:

Yep I agree, those phone calls will hang him.

Unfortunately, the more info we get, the more questions we have!!

[JHP]

Unfortunately, the more info we get, the more questions we have!!

I hope hope we get answers. I think the GA friend will be an eyeopener as to what went on in the home that night. 17 calls in an hour, with a guest in the house.

I still would love to know what took them so long to make an arrest. I guess we all would.

JMO

[frankdrack]

Yes. The information painted a much clearer picture of what happened that night.

IMO there still is a lot of information that needs clarification. The Dec 30th SW states that the data that they are going after was ordered to be preserved in July 2007.

That makes me believe that LE tried to get a SW for the information sometime prior to July 2007 but they were unsuccessful. They then asked a court to order Cellco Partnership, DBA Verizon Wireless, to capture and preserve all text messages.

It is also interesting that prior to the summer of 2007 LE had enough probable cause to convince a court to allow a pen register on JY’s cell phone.

[frankdrack]

When I asked why didn't Cassidy answer the phone I hadn't read the post right and thought it said Jason was trying to call Michelle numerous times that morning. We need to bring that post over here. So why did Jason call Michelle so many times that night? :unsure:

Yep I agree, those phone calls will hang him.

I also think that the telephone usage looks very bad for JY. The information that he checked his voice messages, and deleted, after the 1:53 PM call from his MIL but never called her back looks really bad.

[Kat4Eagles]

Responding to the fact that Brad Cooper's children were taken away:
Besides the fact that he mentioned suicide, Nancy's murder was the result of an argument gone bad and not premeditated as Michelle's. Brad was volatile which put the children at risk immediately. It didn't take LE long to realize that JY planned Michelle's murder and that his plan included leaving Cassidy alive since she was found unharmed.
He was trying to stay out of jail and harming Cassidy after Michelle's murder would be a lot harder to do and still come up with an unbreakable alibi.

Cool, so apparently Jason did not try to drug C afterall.!!!
:cool:
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I hope hope we get answers. I think the GA friend will be an eyeopener as to what went on in the home that night. 17 calls in an hour, with a guest in the house.

I still would love to know what took them so long to make an arrest. I guess we all would.

JMO

That doesn't mean all 17 calls went through.....
Anymore than the 28 phone calls to his Mom did.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

When I asked why didn't Cassidy answer the phone I hadn't read the post right and thought it said Jason was trying to call Michelle numerous times that morning. We need to bring that post over here. So why did Jason call Michelle so many times that night? :unsure:

Yep I agree, those phone calls will hang him.


That is a really good question, Anna,do we know if the calls went to their home or to Michelle's cell?

I would think as articulate and bright as C sounded that am, she would have had no problem answering the phone.

Kat

[Tia]

I also think that the telephone usage looks very bad for JY. The information that he checked his voice messages, and deleted, after the 1:53 PM call from his MIL but never called her back looks really bad.

Especially when we see how rare it was for her to call him.

[Kat4Eagles]

Responding to the fact that Brad Cooper's children were taken away:
Besides the fact that he mentioned suicide, Nancy's murder was the result of an argument gone bad and not premeditated as Michelle's. Brad was volatile which put the children at risk immediately. It didn't take LE long to realize that JY planned Michelle's murder and that his plan included leaving Cassidy alive since she was found unharmed.
He was trying to stay out of jail and harming Cassidy after Michelle's murder would be a lot harder to do and still come up with an unbreakable alibi.


Custody Part 2:

Let's see:

So, pretty much from Day 1, Jason has always been the person LE thought murdered Michelle.

They even went on record saying that they felt C may have witnessed the crime.....putting her in danger...

If the person who left C alone for hours and hours to let her find her Mom dead in a pool of blood,does NOT show signs of instability, then who does?

If the person who killed Michelle until there was nothing left of her, does NOT show signs of violent behavior and instability,then, again, who does?

You can not be sure of what a person can or won't do in a situation like this.

You easily could go in front of a court, and ask for an emergency custody hearing while the investigation continued, just for the fact alone that the child witnessed a crime.!!

She couldn't be placed in protective custody?

And, then given to the Fishers if they wanted her?

Jason could have disappeared with C to another country, or used her as a shield ?

So, on one hand you are saying Jason did not harm C, but in the s/w's it is suggested she may have been drugged during the crime?

So, which way is it?

Kat

ETA:

It has actually been speculated here that Jason did try to kill C!!

[Tia]

I hope hope we get answers. I think the GA friend will be an eyeopener as to what went on in the home that night. 17 calls in an hour, with a guest in the house.

I still would love to know what took them so long to make an arrest. I guess we all would.

JMO

Maybe they had a fight and Michelle turned the ringer on her phone off? Then the GA guest wouldn't know anything.

[Jester]

On the last thread, I asked if Jason had stayed in this particular Hampton Inn before ... reply was doubtful.

I had a look on line for info on the layout of Hampton Inns, and they're all the same. I think I read that Jason often stayed at the Hampton Inn.

Here's a link to the standard layout and floorplans for the hotel. They are all the same.

http://hamptondevelopment.com/Scripts/DC.asp?http://hamptondevelopment.com/Archive/HIS/Bldg_DWF/V2_DWF/HIS_v2_DWF.htm

This download is needed to view the layout, but:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=4086277

[Tia]

On the last thread, I asked if Jason had stayed in this particular Hampton Inn before ... reply was doubtful.

I had a look on line for info on the layout of Hampton Inns, and they're all the same. I think I read that Jason often stayed at the Hampton Inn.

Here's a link to the standard layout and floorplans for the hotel. They are all the same.

http://hamptondevelopment.com/Scripts/DC.asp?http://hamptondevelopment.com/Archive/HIS/Bldg_DWF/V2_DWF/HIS_v2_DWF.htm

This download is needed to view the layout, but:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=4086277

Well, he couldn't have been too famililar, he only unplugged the one camera, the other captured him heading toward the exit.

[Kat4Eagles]

I also think that the telephone usage looks very bad for JY. The information that he checked his voice messages, and deleted, after the 1:53 PM call from his MIL but never called her back looks really bad.


Yes, it does,Frank.

It almost looks like he knows it is all about to come down fast and furious!

I am wondering about these 23 new phone/text contacts...

Apparently, he still had a lot of friends......and yet,we were told he had none, and was treated like an outcast with no support from anyone.

Now, we know that was not true.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

On the last thread, I asked if Jason had stayed in this particular Hampton Inn before ... reply was doubtful.

I had a look on line for info on the layout of Hampton Inns, and they're all the same. I think I read that Jason often stayed at the Hampton Inn.

Here's a link to the standard layout and floorplans for the hotel. They are all the same.

http://hamptondevelopment.com/Scripts/DC.asp?http://hamptondevelopment.com/Archive/HIS/Bldg_DWF/V2_DWF/HIS_v2_DWF.htm

This download is needed to view the layout, but:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=4086277



In the s/w's it says he had a preference to the Hamptons.

And, yes they are all the same, they only have 4 floors , and are small.


Kat

[JHP]

Custody Part 2:

Let's see:

So, pretty much from Day 1, Jason has always been the person LE thought murdered Michelle.

They even went on record saying that they felt C may have witnessed the crime.....putting her in danger...

If the person who left C alone for hours and hours to let her find her Mom dead in a pool of blood,does NOT show signs of instability, then who does?

If the person who killed Michelle until there was nothing left of her, does NOT show signs of violent behavior and instability,then, again, who does?

You can not be sure of what a person can or won't do in a situation like this.

You easily could go in front of a court, and ask for an emergency custody hearing while the investigation continued, just for the fact alone that the child witnessed a crime.!!

She couldn't be placed in protective custody?

And, then given to the Fishers if they wanted her?

Jason could have disappeared with C to another country, or used her as a shield ?

So, on one hand you are saying Jason did not harm C, but in the s/w's it is suggested she may have been drugged during the crime?

So, which way is it?

Kat

ETA:

It has actually been speculated here that Jason did try to kill C!!

What is not known is if child protective services were involved. Jason did not appear to be alone with Cassidy alot. He didn't even vacation without his Mom.

So maybe they were involved. Or maybe his Mom was worried about Cassidy. Or maybe he didn't want to deal with a preschooler.

JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

What is not known is if child protective services were involved. Jason did not appear to be alone with Cassidy alot. He didn't even vacation without his Mom.

So maybe they were involved. Or maybe his Mom was worried about Cassidy. Or maybe he didn't want to deal with a preschooler.

JMO

Okay, but the point is no one could guarantee her safety 100%, could they?

Even and especially after the drug theory in the s/w's..........

I am just glad no one was that worried about her to not take any
extra precautionary steps until years and years later.

:rolleyes:

Kat

[janesdeaan]

That doesn't mean all 17 calls went through.....
Anymore than the 28 phone calls to his Mom did.

Kat


I've never understood why some think the 28 calls to his mom didn't go through, now the 17 calls to Michelle may not have gone through. His phone sure worked fine on the calls to Michelle Money, why would it malfunction when he called his mom 28 times or his wife 17 times ? It worked fine when he deleted Linda Fishers calls. IMO this is just more excuses for Jason's bad behavior. It's time to realize this guy was not on the up and up, no way...:thumbdown:

[Tia]

I've never understood why some think the 28 calls to his mom didn't go through, now the 17 calls to Michelle may not have gone through. His phone sure worked fine on the calls to Michelle Money, why would it malfunction when he called his mom 28 times or his wife 17 times ? It worked fine when he deleted Linda Fishers calls. IMO this is just more excuses for Jason's bad behavior. It's time to realize this guy was not on the up and up, no way...:thumbdown:

Very well said JD.

:thumbup:

[janesdeaan]

That is a really good question, Anna,do we know if the calls went to their home or to Michelle's cell?

I would think as articulate and bright as C sounded that am, she would have had no problem answering the phone.

Kat\

I doubt Cassidy was up at that time of night, the calls were made between 9:50 pm (approx) and 11 pm. Sounds like Jason and Michelle were fighting on the phone to me, as another poster said it sounds like Jason was mad and trying to get the last word.
BTW where did you hear Cassidy sounding articulate and bright that am ?

[Kat4Eagles]

\

I doubt Cassidy was up at that time of night, the calls were made between 9:50 pm (approx) and 11 pm. Sounds like Jason and Michelle were fighting on the phone to me, as another poster said it sounds like Jason was mad and trying to get the last word.
BTW where did you hear Cassidy sounding articulate and bright that am ?


And, that would be real smart to do, get into a fight with your wife right before you are returning home to kill her.
Unless, you are suggesting that is when the "plan" was formulated..

On the 911 call...C was bright, alert, asking for things, explaining her Mom's condition, and very articulate for her age.

Kat

[annalyzer]

Oh geez I can hardly wait for this trial. :thumbsup:

[janesdeaan]

What is not known is if child protective services were involved. Jason did not appear to be alone with Cassidy alot. He didn't even vacation without his Mom.

So maybe they were involved. Or maybe his Mom was worried about Cassidy. Or maybe he didn't want to deal with a preschooler.

JMO

That's what I thought back at the time, Jason always lived with another female relative, his mom or sister. Maybe children services did get involved and that was the condition that he was allowed to keep custody of Cassidy. And you're right, all his vacationing was done with his mom, or, (lol) he was just using his mom/sister for babysitters so he could party. Hard to say, he certainly never exhibited much integrity.

[Kat4Eagles]

I've never understood why some think the 28 calls to his mom didn't go through, now the 17 calls to Michelle may not have gone through. His phone sure worked fine on the calls to Michelle Money, why would it malfunction when he called his mom 28 times or his wife 17 times ? It worked fine when he deleted Linda Fishers calls. IMO this is just more excuses for Jason's bad behavior. It's time to realize this guy was not on the up and up, no way...:thumbdown:

Look at the times and spaces between calls.
Only a word or a few words , if even that much would be allowed.

:read:

Kat

[Tia]

Oh geez I can hardly wait for this trial. :thumbsup:

You and me both.

I can't wait to hear what comes out.

[janesdeaan]

And, that would be real smart to do, get into a fight with your wife right before you are returning home to kill her.
Unless, you are suggesting that is when the "plan" was formulated..

On the 911 call...C was bright, alert, asking for things, explaining her Mom's condition, and very articulate for her age.

Kat

Seventeen calls sure sounds like they were fighting to me, who calls someone back that many times unless they are VERY upset !!!
Cassidy sounded alert on Nov 3, on the 911 call at 1:30 in the afternoon, some 16 hours after the 17 calls to Michelle were made. You said originally she sounded alert that am, when you were asking why Cassidy didn't answer the phone.

[5swab5]

Look at the times and spaces between calls.
Only a word or a few words , if even that much would be allowed.

:read:

Kat

There was at least one call to Michelle YOUNG that lasted for ~4½ minutes. A person can get a lot said in that amount of time, IMO.

ETA, it only took Lincoln 2 minutes to deliver the Gettysburg Address.

[Kat4Eagles]

Oh geez I can hardly wait for this trial. :thumbsup:

I don't think it will happen until next year, and there could be a plea offer, although I doubt it.

I see many things the defense will have to work with from re~reading the s/w's.


1)The door to the garage was unsecured leaving some doubt.

2)It says Jason was told of Michelle's death the EVENING of the 3rd, which contradicts that he was told in the afternoon, which overrules why he took so long to get back to Raleigh.

3)Jason would NOT have to inquire the condition of C from LE if he were told about her earlier from a family member.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Seventeen calls sure sounds like they were fighting to me, who calls someone back that many times unless they are VERY upset !!!
Cassidy sounded alert on Nov 3, on the 911 call at 1:30 in the afternoon, some 16 hours after the 17 calls to Michelle were made. You said originally she sounded alert that am, when you were asking why Cassidy didn't answer the phone.


But, not all 17 calls show signs for much conversation.

There were also phonecalls made to Michelle on the 3rd, that I was referring to.
But, I could have been clearer, sorry!!

Kat

[Tia]

I don't know about you guys, but I am still reeling from finding out about the unplugged video camera, the missing clothes etc....

He totally planned this.

:angry:

[achristie]

You and me both.

I can't wait to hear what comes out.

You know what struck me again in reviewing the SW? The fact that he refused to do a walk through in his own house with the police. Wouldn't even go back to his own house. No desire to see what his child was exposed to? Just the night before he left a healthy, pregnant wife and toddler and he won't go back to the house? Where is the indignation? How come he never asked how she was murdered? Why so accepting?

MOO Aggie

[Jester]

In the s/w's it says he had a preference to the Hamptons.

And, yes they are all the same, they only have 4 floors , and are small.


Kat
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/hillsvillehamptonDWF-1.jpg

[5swab5]

I don't know about you guys, but I am still reeling from finding out about the unplugged video camera, the missing clothes etc....

He totally planned this.

:angry:

No kidding. IF there has ever been enough premeditation to beg for the DP, this is it.

And he stopped at a Cracker Barrel and had a "sit-down" meal just hours before. If that isn't cold, I don't know what is. Blows my mind. MOO

[Jester]

Well, he couldn't have been too famililar, he only unplugged the one camera, the other captured him heading toward the exit.

It's possible that he wanted to be seen on that camera heading for the stairwell. It can be argued that he was going up the stairs, not out the door.

[janesdeaan]

Look at the times and spaces between calls.Only a word or a few words , if even that much would be allowed.
:read:Kat

So, what about your theory that the calls didn't go through ? :read::punch:

[Tia]

You know what struck me again in reviewing the SW? The fact that he refused to do a walk through in his own house with the police. Wouldn't even go back to his own house. No desire to see what his child was exposed to? Just the night before he left a healthy, pregnant wife and toddler and he won't go back to the house? Where is the indignation? How come he never asked how she was murdered? Why so accepting?

MOO Aggie

Because he already knew all the answers, IMO.

[Tia]

It's possible that he wanted to be seen on that camera heading for the stairwell. It can be argued that he was going up the stairs, not out the door.

I just read somewhere else that he couldn't unplug the camera by the stairwell, it was different that the other one.

:shrug:

[Tia]

No kidding. IF there has ever been enough premeditation to beg for the DP, this is it.

And he stopped at a Cracker Barrel and had a "sit-down" meal just hours before. If that isn't cold, I don't know what is. Blows my mind. MOO

Horrible isn't it.
I guess he didn't want to murder on an empty stomach.

Poor Michelle. Obviously she had no idea what a monster she had married.

[5swab5]

It's possible that he wanted to be seen on that camera heading for the stairwell. It can be argued that he was going up the stairs, not out the door.

Lots of things can be argued, but will a jury buy them?

I doubt that propping his room door open theory will fool even one juror. Not in this day and age.

The silly out of town trip, with company coming for HomeComing Weekend..... for a brief meeting that he was late for.....The one use of his key card, the unplugged camera and the rock in the lock kills Jason. All the phone activity is just icing on the cake, IMO.

[Kat4Eagles]

No kidding. IF there has ever been enough premeditation to beg for the DP, this is it.

And he stopped at a Cracker Barrel and had a "sit-down" meal just hours before. If that isn't cold, I don't know what is. Blows my mind. MOO

Well, there is certainly a lot against him , that's for sure...

But, for the defense:

4) Unidentified DNA would be the same as foreign DNA, right?

5)Not unusual to stay at a Hampton

6)Blisters forming would have to be a result of wearing shoes much longer than to just walk through the blood onto a pillow with

7) Not cooperating or doing a walk though could have been the accusatory tone in which LE talked to him, causing him great concern he was now suspect 1......
Didn't some friends tell him from the very beginning, "Jason, they think it's you?"

8) Clothes?Sounds like more are missing than just a shirt, and pants.
We would have to know if he left the home in a jacket/coat, and if he was a cold weather person?
I believe that nite was supposed to be pretty chilly.
And, he was driving further North.....so........??

9) Stopping at CB could also go the other way.
Defense could say it showed he was relaxed enough to eat and hang out awhile.

10)Made sure he was captured on video around 11 and 12 pm!
Unplugged one camera, but not the most important one showing him possibly leaving?
What did he do in the meantime, from 11-12 PM interact with anyone else there?
Demeanor is important.....and, when and how did he take his stuff from the hotel?

JMO

Kat

[Jester]

IMO there still is a lot of information that needs clarification. The Dec 30th SW states that the data that they are going after was ordered to be preserved in July 2007.

That makes me believe that LE tried to get a SW for the information sometime prior to July 2007 but they were unsuccessful. They then asked a court to order Cellco Partnership, DBA Verizon Wireless, to capture and preserve all text messages.

It is also interesting that prior to the summer of 2007 LE had enough probable cause to convince a court to allow a pen register on JY’s cell phone.

That's exactly what I said last night. That does seem to be the only way to understand the current warrant for information from two years ago.

[frankdrack]

You know what struck me again in reviewing the SW? The fact that he refused to do a walk through in his own house with the police. Wouldn't even go back to his own house. No desire to see what his child was exposed to? Just the night before he left a healthy, pregnant wife and toddler and he won't go back to the house? Where is the indignation? How come he never asked how she was murdered? Why so accepting?

MOO Aggie

I agree that there are a lot of things that look bad for JY but I believe that not going back to the house is not one of them. I see two logical explanations. The first is advice of counsel, the second is going back to a crime scene is very traumatic.

I imagine that there are plenty of examples of cases where truly innocent family members have never visited the crime scene.

[Kat4Eagles]

It's possible that he wanted to be seen on that camera heading for the stairwell. It can be argued that he was going up the stairs, not out the door.


A lot of things can be argued, and will be.!! :biggrin:

I wonder if Roger Smith is kicking this around, waiting for all the evidence before deciding what to do.

I would love to see Rudolf on this case, even though I disliked him in the Carruth/Adams case.

Kat

[frankdrack]

That's exactly what I said last night. That does seem to be the only way to understand the current warrant for information from two years ago.

Yes, I stole it from you.

[Jester]

That doesn't mean all 17 calls went through.....
Anymore than the 28 phone calls to his Mom did.

Kat

What do you think happened? Busy signal? Answering machine?

[Jester]

Cool, so apparently Jason did not try to drug C afterall.!!!
:cool:
Kat

That's not what the latest warrant says.

[jammies]

I don't know about you guys, but I am still reeling from finding out about the unplugged video camera, the missing clothes etc....

He totally planned this.

:angry:


Makes the car accident seem all the more suspicious now. :sneaky:

[Tia]

I agree that there are a lot of things that look bad for JY but I believe that not going back to the house is not one of them. I see two logical explanations. The first is advice of counsel, the second is going back to a crime scene is very traumatic.

I imagine that there are plenty of examples of cases where truly innocent family members have never visited the crime scene.

In light of Jason's other behaviors, this just adds more fuel to the fire, so to speak.

[Tia]

Makes the car accident seem all the more suspicious now. :sneaky:

Yup. He was a good planner.:angry:

[Kat4Eagles]

So, what about your theory that the calls didn't go through ? :read::punch:


I guess we won't know how many actual calls went through, but didn't Jason tell someone he was having trouble with reception going through the mountains?

I know I read somewhere..................
Wait, I know where it was!!, in his email to Alan Fisher, that reception was not always that good in Brevard and with the phone he had!!

I can not imagine someone calling someone 28 or 17 times and making contact with them each and every time and then still calling them back.

When you KNOW your cell phone records are going to be retrieved at some later date....

JMO

Kat

[frankdrack]

[QUOTE=5swab5;13765589]Lots of things can be argued, but will a jury buy them?

I doubt that propping his room door open theory will fool even one juror. Not in this day and age.

QUOTE]

The latest SW seems to have LE promoting the “propping his room door open theory.”

“A similar approach may have been used on the door to Jason Young's room thus explaining its single use of the key card, Propping or blocking the hotel room door open can defeat the key card reader. It would only be necessary to block the door open to the point where the lock would not engage”

[Kat4Eagles]

That's not what the latest warrant says.


Gotcha!!

So, that wouldn't make Jason unstable and a danger for C to be around!!

Thank you.
:)
Kat

[5swab5]

Well, there is certainly a lot against him , that's for sure...

But, for the defense:

4) Unidentified DNA would be the same as foreign DNA, right?

5)Not unusual to stay at a Hampton

6)Blisters forming would have to be a result of wearing shoes much longer than to just walk through the blood onto a pillow with

7) Not cooperating or doing a walk though could have been the accusatory tone in which LE talked to him, causing him great concern he was now suspect 1......
Didn't some friends tell him from the very beginning, "Jason, they think it's you?"

8) Clothes?Sounds like more are missing than just a shirt, and pants.
We would have to know if he left the home in a jacket/coat, and if he was a cold weather person?
I believe that nite was supposed to be pretty chilly.
And, he was driving further North.....so........??

9) Stopping at CB could also go the other way.
Defense could say it showed he was relaxed enough to eat and hang out awhile.

10)Made sure he was captured on video around 11 and 12 pm!
Unplugged one camera, but not the most important one showing him possibly leaving?
What did he do in the meantime, from 11-12 PM interact with anyone else there?
Demeanor is important.....and, when and how did he take his stuff from the hotel?

JMO

Kat

Smoke and Mirrors doesn't go as far in real CourtRooms as it did on Perry Mason. Geragos proved that...once and for all. MOO

[achristie]

I agree that there are a lot of things that look bad for JY but I believe that not going back to the house is not one of them. I see two logical explanations. The first is advice of counsel, the second is going back to a crime scene is very traumatic.

I imagine that there are plenty of examples of cases where truly innocent family members have never visited the crime scene.

Frank, his 2 year old baby was there for all those hours. Alone. With her mother. He couldn't man up? I don't buy it. And with all the other evidence I doubt a jury will either. If that comes in.

MOO Aggie

[frankdrack]

In light of Jason's other behaviors, this just adds more fuel to the fire, so to speak.

How many of what many posters claim as suspicious behavior will actually be presented to a jury?

[Jester]

And, that would be real smart to do, get into a fight with your wife right before you are returning home to kill her.
Unless, you are suggesting that is when the "plan" was formulated..

On the 911 call...C was bright, alert, asking for things, explaining her Mom's condition, and very articulate for her age.

Kat

That's certainly not obvious from the 911 call I heard.

[Tia]

How many of what many posters claim as suspicious behavior will actually be presented to a jury?

We are still regular people.
99.9% on this board agree that Jason's behavior was suspicious.
I think a jury will feel the same way.

[frankdrack]

Frank, his 2 year old baby was there for all those hours. Alone. With her mother. He couldn't man up? I don't buy it. And with all the other evidence I doubt a jury will either. If that comes in.

MOO Aggie

I can imagine the defense spinning it the opposite way, “He was so distraught by the carnage that happened in his home that he never spent another night there.”

[5swab5]

I agree that there are a lot of things that look bad for JY but I believe that not going back to the house is not one of them. I see two logical explanations. The first is advice of counsel, the second is going back to a crime scene is very traumatic.

I imagine that there are plenty of examples of cases where truly innocent family members have never visited the crime scene.

IIRC. One of the SWs revealed that even tho Jason told LE had had counsel during the return trip, he did NOT have counsel until that Monday.

[Kat4Eagles]

How many of what many posters claim as suspicious behavior will actually be presented to a jury?


I don't know what all will be allowed in, if we get that far, but his demeanor at the hotel and Cracker Barrel will mean a lot to me.

Was he chatty, flirty, sociable to his server, asuming it was a girl?
:biggrin:

Was he making small talk to the desk clerk @ the Hampton?
Talking sports? I think there was a big college game that nite.

Kat

[frankdrack]

We are still regular people.
99.9% on this board agree that Jason's behavior was suspicious.
I think a jury will feel the same way.

The point I was trying to make is that a trial has very little to do with everyday life. This board has access to much information that I believe that jury will never hear/see. The actual information presented to a jury is controlled by the rules of evidence.

[achristie]

I can imagine the defense spinning it the opposite way, “He was so distraught by the carnage that happened in his home that he never spent another night there.”

Operative word? S P I N.

[frankdrack]

Operative word? S P I N.

Both sides spin.

[Tia]

The point I was trying to make is that a trial has very little to do with everyday life. This board has access to much information that I believe that jury will never hear/see. The actual information presented to a jury is controlled by the rules of evidence.

Right. But I don't imagine it will be too difficult for a jury to see how bizarre some of Jason's behaviors were. Maybe him not returning to the house won't be admitted, but other things will. Him not returning to the house is actually small beans and pretty meaningless when looking at the big picture.

[janesdeaan]

Frank, his 2 year old baby was there for all those hours. Alone. With her mother. He couldn't man up? I don't buy it. And with all the other evidence I doubt a jury will either. If that comes in.

MOO Aggie

I don't buy it either, Aggie. It looks like what it probably is, he COULDN'T go back there and face his handiwork (for lack of a better word). No excuse for not asking how Cassidy was, and HOW Michelle died !!!

[5swab5]

The latest SW seems to have LE promoting the “propping his room door open theory.”

“A similar approach may have been used on the door to Jason Young's room thus explaining its single use of the key card, Propping or blocking the hotel room door open can defeat the key card reader. It would only be necessary to block the door open to the point where the lock would not engage”


Apples and Oranges. I was talking about the Defense trying to convince a jury that Jason left his room unlocked with all his stuff in it while he went down to the lobby.

What LE is talking about, ESPECIALLY in light of the unplugged camera, is Jason putting a rock in the lock of an empty room.

Had the murders not been so messy/taken so long. AND the staff not have found the rock in the outside door.....I suspect Jason would have reentered the Hampton via the side door and made a BIG DEAL in the lobby that morning about something or another. All dressed up and on his way to his meeting. OOPS. I bet he 'bout freaked. MOO

[frankdrack]

Right. But I don't imagine it will be too difficult for a jury to see how bizarre some of Jason's behaviors were. Maybe him not returning to the house won't be admitted, but other things will. Him not returning to the house is actually small beans and pretty meaningless when looking at the big picture.

I agree.

Many posters seem to point to issues that they believe will be huge negatives for JY at trial… that I don’t think will even be part of the trial. Things like not talking to LE & "Daddy did it."

That said, there are many issues that I expect to be part of the trial that look really bad for JY.

[Tia]

I agree.

Many posters seem to point to issues that they believe will be huge negatives for JY at trial… that I don’t think will even be part of the trial. Things like not talking to LE & "Daddy did it."

That said, there are many issues that I expect to be part of the trial that look really bad for JY.

What issues do you think make it look bad for him?

[janesdeaan]

The point I was trying to make is that a trial has very little to do with everyday life. This board has access to much information that I believe that jury will never hear/see. The actual information presented to a jury is controlled by the rules of evidence.

I've seen evidence smaller than some of these facts "get in" in a lot of the cases IN SESSION covers on television. Jason not asking how Michelle was killed, or the condition of his two year old daughter after spending 10+ hours ALONE with a dead body, just that she was alone all that time (for that matter) is very telling and IMO it will get in.

[frankdrack]

Apples and Oranges. I was talking about the Defense trying to convince a jury that Jason left his room unlocked with all his stuff in it while he went down to the lobby.

What LE is talking about, ESPECIALLY in light of the unplugged camera, is Jason putting a rock in the lock of an empty room.

Had the murders not been so messy/taken so long. AND the staff not have found the rock in the outside door.....I suspect Jason would have reentered the Hampton via the side door and made a BIG DEAL in the lobby that morning about something or another. All dressed up and on his way to his meeting. OOPS. I bet he 'bout freaked. MOO

What happens to your theory if the video shows him heading toward the exit without all of his luggage? The same luggage that was seized when he returned to Raleigh.

[achristie]

Both sides spin.

True. How's the defense gonna spin those emails between he and his lover? Let me guess. Yes he's a cad, yes he fooled around, yes it seems he wasn't too fond of his wife ( he did say he could kill her in an email, ya know the day he said his lovely little girl PIZZED all over the floor?) but that doesn't make him a murderer, ladies and gentlemen! He's just a good ole boy. He didn't mean it.:wink:

MOO Aggie

[frankdrack]

I've seen evidence smaller than some of these facts "get in" in a lot of the cases IN SESSION covers on television. Jason not asking how Michelle was killed, or the condition of his two year old daughter after spending 10+ hours ALONE with a dead body, just that she was alone all that time (for that matter) is very telling and IMO it will get in.

I think that we will hear that JY had already received word from people that he trusted that CY was safe before he spoke with LE. He might have even spoken with her before the LE call.

[5swab5]

I can imagine the defense spinning it the opposite way, “He was so distraught by the carnage that happened in his home that he never spent another night there.”


Then at some point, one would think he would be feeling a little better...as time passed and all.

He felt good enough to vacation in Puerto Rico on the first Anniversary of the massacre. Surely he could have found the strength to call Donnie Harrison and ask how the investigation was going and IF they were closing in on the animal that slaughtered his wife and son.

Certainly, by the time 2+ years had passed, he could have given more thought and respect to N.C. Wanted when they went to Brevard.

You came here for THAT?

^^^MOO^^^

[frankdrack]

True. How's the defense gonna spin those emails between he and his lover? Let me guess. Yes he's a cad, yes he fooled around, yes it seems he wasn't too fond of his wife ( he did say he could kill her in an email, ya know the day he said his lovely little girl PIZZED all over the floor?) but that doesn't make him a murderer, ladies and gentlemen! He's just a good ole boy. He didn't mean it.:wink:

MOO Aggie

“If every person who was having an affair killed their spouse we would need a lot more funeral homes… In fact plenty of high ranking leaders of our government and religious organizations have cheated…”

[Tia]

True. How's the defense gonna spin those emails between he and his lover? Let me guess. Yes he's a cad, yes he fooled around, yes it seems he wasn't too fond of his wife ( he did say he could kill her in an email, ya know the day he said his lovely little girl PIZZED all over the floor?) but that doesn't make him a murderer, ladies and gentlemen! He's just a good ole boy. He didn't mean it.:wink:

MOO Aggie

Geragos? Is that you?:lol:

[frankdrack]

Surely he could have found the strength to call Donnie Harrison and ask how the investigation was going and IF they were closing in on the animal that slaughtered his wife and son.


^^^MOO^^^

I don't think that it will be part of the trial.

[achristie]

“If every person who was having an affair killed their spouse we would need a lot more funeral homes… In fact plenty of high ranking leaders of our government and religious organizations have cheated…”

Frank, I'm groaning here.:laugh: You're killing me. That's all blah blah blah to me.

MOO Aggie

[Tia]

Frank, I'm groaning here.:laugh: You're killing me. That's all blah blah blah to me.

MOO Aggie

I think thats what Frank was trying to say, that the defense will just blah blah blah about all of that and down play it.

I think.....:confused:

[frankdrack]

Frank, I'm groaning here.:laugh: You're killing me. That's all blah blah blah to me.

MOO Aggie

Both sides tell a story. In the end the jury must decide which story is more believable.

I think that many people believe that the facts in the OJ case gave the State the edge in presenting the more believable story but in the end the jury sided with the defense.

I think that the opposite was true in the Scott Peterson case.

At this point I think we have the most basic outline of the State’s case and nothing from the defense. I can’t begin to predict which side will present the better story at trial.

[jerry50]

Custody Part 2:

Let's see:

So, pretty much from Day 1, Jason has always been the person LE thought murdered Michelle.

They even went on record saying that they felt C may have witnessed the crime.....putting her in danger...

If the person who left C alone for hours and hours to let her find her Mom dead in a pool of blood,does NOT show signs of instability, then who does?

If the person who killed Michelle until there was nothing left of her, does NOT show signs of violent behavior and instability,then, again, who does?

You can not be sure of what a person can or won't do in a situation like this.

You easily could go in front of a court, and ask for an emergency custody hearing while the investigation continued, just for the fact alone that the child witnessed a crime.!!

She couldn't be placed in protective custody?

And, then given to the Fishers if they wanted her?

Jason could have disappeared with C to another country, or used her as a shield ?

So, on one hand you are saying Jason did not harm C, but in the s/w's it is suggested she may have been drugged during the crime?

So, which way is it?

Kat

ETA:

It has actually been speculated here that Jason did try to kill C!!

Link to the speculation that JY tried to kill Cassidy?

Do you have a link to a blood sample of Cassidy that proves she was drugged and that JY's were the only fingerprints on the bottle and that someone could use that sample as a means to get custody of Cassidy? TIA

[frankdrack]

Nothing new, but an artice that discusses the unplugged camera.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=7202054

[5swab5]

I don't think that it will be part of the trial.


Consciousness of Guilt?

I don't think anyone thought the fact that Peterson went golfing and talked to his squeeze on the phone instead of hanging "Missing Posters" for Laci would get into the trial either, but it did.

Surely Jason's disinterest in resolving the murders of Rylan and Michelle should be heard by a jury. IMO

[Kat4Eagles]

I don't buy it either, Aggie. It looks like what it probably is, he COULDN'T go back there and face his handiwork (for lack of a better word). No excuse for not asking how Cassidy was, and HOW Michelle died !!!

But, but , but, if he were told in an earlier conversation that C was okay, why the need to ask someone who is questioning you and maybe telling you to get yourself in gear back to Raleigh pronto or else.

:confused:

Kat

[frankdrack]

Consciousness of Guilt?

I don't think anyone thought the fact that Peterson went golfing and talked to his squeeze on the phone instead of hanging "Missing Posters" for Laci would get into the trial either, but it did.

Surely Jason's disinterest in resolving the murders of Rylan and Michelle should be heard by a jury. IMO

So are you saying that you think the fact that he never called the sheriff to ask about the status of the investigation is going to be part of the trial?

[Kat4Eagles]

I think that we will hear that JY had already received word from people that he trusted that CY was safe before he spoke with LE. He might have even spoken with her before the LE call.


Exactly!!

:thumbsup:

Kat

[Tia]

Nothing new, but an artice that discusses the unplugged camera.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=7202054

Still interesting though.

[Kat4Eagles]

Link to the speculation that JY tried to kill Cassidy?

Do you have a link to a blood sample of Cassidy that proves she was drugged and that JY's were the only fingerprints on the bottle and that someone could use that sample as a means to get custody of Cassidy? TIA


Yep, there were posters here who actually thought when learning that C may have been drugged, that he was also trying to murder her too.!!!
But, gosh, wouldn't you think that someone would have done something if that were true.??
Someone in L E could have pointed out that drugging C could have been fatal using adult medicine?
Therefore, I discounted the drugging from the beginning.

Kat

[jerry50]

We are still regular people.
99.9% on this board agree that Jason's behavior was suspicious.
I think a jury will feel the same way.

It's one more piece of the puzzle.

Plus did JY know how bloody the crime scene was? I wouldn't think so. And if he later enrolled in nursing classes the blood should have bothered him less than regular people.

[5swab5]

So are you saying that you think the fact that he never called the sheriff to ask about the status of the investigation is going to be part of the trial?

I said:
Surely Jason's disinterest in resolving the murders of Rylan and Michelle should be heard by a jury. IMO

I am perfectly aware Jason's Attorneys will fight to keep every fact there is out of the trial, but thankfully...even tho Rylan and Michelle are dead, the State will fight to be their voice. I say let it ALL in and let the jury decide. MOO

[Tia]

It's one more piece of the puzzle.

Plus did JY know how bloody the crime scene was? I wouldn't think so. And if he later enrolled in nursing classes the blood should have bothered him less than regular people.

BBM

I think he knew alright!

JMO

[5swab5]

I think that we will hear that JY had already received word from people that he trusted that CY was safe before he spoke with LE. He might have even spoken with her before the LE call.


They might try and float that theory. But it will be hard to convince jurors that Jason didn't want verification from LE too. It's just natural. Sorta like, gonna be impossible to find 12 people for the Anthony trial who will ignore the fact Casey didn't mention Caylee being missing for a whole month.

Until robots can serve on juries, emotions and common sense will never be checked at the door. MOO

[Jester]

Gotcha!!

So, that wouldn't make Jason unstable and a danger for C to be around!!

Thank you.
:)
Kat

Like I said, Cassidy was in the care of her Aunt or Grandmother before custody was transferred to Meredith. Sure Jason was hanging out at their houses too, but he was working, playing basketball, maybe chasing women, attending nursing school. He was definitely not the stay at home dad, nor the provider dad.

[Details]

Like I said, Cassidy was in the care of her Aunt or Grandmother before custody was transferred to Meredith. Sure Jason was hanging out at their houses too, but he was working, playing basketball, maybe chasing women, attending nursing school. He was definitely not the stay at home dad, nor the provider dad.And...

If the killer wanted her dead, he'd have simply killed her. Heck, it'd go better with the intruder story anyway, and eliminate a possible witness. And if he killed her later - on another day, that would just make the murder case against him bulletproof. Obviously, he wasn't going to kill her. It'd be a one way ticket to prison to do it now, it'd be something he'd have done before if he wanted it done.

And, without some solid evidence STRONGLY suggesting he was the killer, no judge would eliminate a parent's visitation so easily. Should a murder accusation without a smoking gun, without evidence enough for an arrest, result in you losing your kids? Losing all contact?

[Jester]

But, but , but, if he were told in an earlier conversation that C was okay, why the need to ask someone who is questioning you and maybe telling you to get yourself in gear back to Raleigh pronto or else.

:confused:

Kat

Why didn't Jason want to know how Michelle was murdered ... why didn't he want to know what happened in the house while he was supposedly out?

[Tia]

Any thoughts on where Jason dumped the "missing clothes"?

[frankdrack]

They might try and float that theory. But it will be hard to convince jurors that Jason didn't want verification from LE too. It's just natural. Sorta like, gonna be impossible to find 12 people for the Anthony trial who will ignore the fact Casey didn't mention Caylee being missing for a whole month.

Until robots can serve on juries, emotions and common sense will never be checked at the door. MOO

I agree that Anthony trial will be tough for the defense but I don’t think the fact that JY didn’t ask LE about his daughter, in a brief call when he told them that he would not be willing to speak with the investigators until he had secured legal counsel, will be much of an issue if we find out that he knew that his daughter was safe.

The inclusion of information in the application for a SW is very different than a trial. I expect that JY’s attorneys will argue in a pre-trial motion that the State should not be allowed to introduce the information.

[Jester]

I said:
Surely Jason's disinterest in resolving the murders of Rylan and Michelle should be heard by a jury. IMO

I am perfectly aware Jason's Attorneys will fight to keep every fact there is out of the trial, but thankfully...even tho Rylan and Michelle are dead, the State will fight to be their voice. I say let it ALL in and let the jury decide. MOO

If it's important enough to include in warrants, it's probably important enough to include at trial.

[janesdeaan]

I think that we will hear that JY had already received word from people that he trusted that CY was safe before he spoke with LE. He might have even spoken with her before the LE call.

Since LE sites it as fact, thereby swearing to it in all their applications for search warrants, I think there might be something to it. And, him not inquiring about her when he has LE right there on the phone, and he is miles away is telling.

[Details]

Any thoughts on where Jason dumped the "missing clothes"?Opportunities are endless. Anywhere along the road, in any fast food store dumpster, at the office building that was his destination, etc.

[frankdrack]

Any thoughts on where Jason dumped the "missing clothes"?

I wonder about that a lot.

I also wonder if he planned the crime why he didn’t have “throwaway clothes” in his SUV.

[frankdrack]

If it's important enough to include in warrants, it's probably important enough to include at trial.

IMO, warrant applications are very different than trials.

[Jester]

And...

If the killer wanted her dead, he'd have simply killed her. Heck, it'd go better with the intruder story anyway, and eliminate a possible witness. And if he killed her later - on another day, that would just make the murder case against him bulletproof. Obviously, he wasn't going to kill her. It'd be a one way ticket to prison to do it now, it'd be something he'd have done before if he wanted it done.

And, without some solid evidence STRONGLY suggesting he was the killer, no judge would eliminate a parent's visitation so easily. Should a murder accusation without a smoking gun, without evidence enough for an arrest, result in you losing your kids? Losing all contact?

Jason may have intended to murder Cassidy with an overdose, and maybe not. In any case, she lived. As you say, a second attempt on her life at a later time, after successfully murdering Michelle, would have guaranteed a life in prison much sooner.

[Details]

I wonder about that a lot.

I also wonder if he planned the crime why he didn’t have “throwaway clothes” in his SUV.It's so easy to miss a little detail when planning. Of course, he may have thought he wouldn't be spotted by the camera. Or that changing in the SUV would be far more memorable than changing in the hotel room.

It's so hard to guess what will get you caught! And there are always little details that get missed.

[frankdrack]

Since LE sites it as fact, thereby swearing to it in all their applications for search warrants, I think there might be something to it. And, him not inquiring about her when he has LE right there on the phone, and he is miles away is telling.

Would you think differently if you found out that before the LE call he had spoken with MF and C?

[5swab5]

And...

If the killer wanted her dead, he'd have simply killed her. Heck, it'd go better with the intruder story anyway, and eliminate a possible witness. And if he killed her later - on another day, that would just make the murder case against him bulletproof. Obviously, he wasn't going to kill her. It'd be a one way ticket to prison to do it now, it'd be something he'd have done before if he wanted it done.

And, without some solid evidence STRONGLY suggesting he was the killer, no judge would eliminate a parent's visitation so easily. Should a murder accusation without a smoking gun, without evidence enough for an arrest, result in you losing your kids? Losing all contact?

Keeping Cassidy alive was at first blush, the only unselfish thing I have seen from Jason. But then I thought, hey...wait a second. Would Pat and Gerald have put Jason up for 2+ years IF Cassidy weren't there?

I doubt it. JMO

[Tia]

I wonder about that a lot.

I also wonder if he planned the crime why he didn’t have “throwaway clothes” in his SUV.

I don't think he expected to be captured by the camera when he was heading toward the exit wearing the murder clothes.

[Details]

Keeping Cassidy alive was at first blush, the only unselfish thing I have seen from Jason. But then I thought, hey...wait a second. Would Pat and Gerald have put Jason up for 2+ years IF Cassidy weren't there?

I doubt it. JMOAnd...

Even among those who would murder someone, there's a wide range of ethical standards. He may have felt Cassidy didn't deserve to be killed, where Michelle had made him so angry he thought she did. He may not have been able to stomach the thought of hurting her - or of doing anything violent to her.

Of course - without the murderer speaking - we never know motives and exactly how the crime really went down.

[Jester]

IMO, warrant applications are very different than trials.

Warrant applications include information that is necessary to obtain information. We see in the latest affidavit that unknown DNA is mentioned while making a request for information about text messages with 23 new friends. The unknown DNA may not even be mentioned in court ... quite true ... but it's helpful when requesting info about new friends.

The fact that Jason was not interested in receiving any information from police about what happened in the house on the night of the murder is relevant to the case. It's not evidence in the sense that phone records are evidence, but the information can be stated during opening or closing arguments. This information alone frames Jason's attitude throughout the investigation.

[frankdrack]

It's so easy to miss a little detail when planning. Of course, he may have thought he wouldn't be spotted by the camera. Or that changing in the SUV would be far more memorable than changing in the hotel room.

It's so hard to guess what will get you caught! And there are always little details that get missed.

I agree, but what confuses me is that some things seem very planned. Things like being away on a business trip, shoes smaller than normal size, & not being seen on the trip to/from home.

Other things seem to have almost no thought, like the missing clothes, calling MM so many times, showering at home.

It almost seems like he planned it out but decided at the last minute that he was going to actually do it at the last minute. IMO

[5swab5]

It's so easy to miss a little detail when planning. Of course, he may have thought he wouldn't be spotted by the camera. Or that changing in the SUV would be far more memorable than changing in the hotel room.

It's so hard to guess what will get you caught! And there are always little details that get missed.


I saw on TV. Forensic Files...I think, that the average murderer makes 52 mistakes. :biggrinjester: MOO

[5swab5]

Would you think differently if you found out that before the LE call he had spoken with MF and C?

Nope. Not as a sister, wife, aunt, daughter, cousin, friend...let alone a parent. MOO

[janesdeaan]

I agree that Anthony trial will be tough for the defense but I don’t think the fact that JY didn’t ask LE about his daughter, in a brief call when he told them that he would not be willing to speak with the investigators until he had secured legal counsel, will be much of an issue if we find out that he knew that his daughter was safe.

The inclusion of information in the application for a SW is very different than a trial. I expect that JY’s attorneys will argue in a pre-trial motion that the State should not be allowed to introduce the information.

If he had LE on the phone, why wouldn't he ask them what happened in that house, how did Michelle die ? They would know and only they would know at that point in time. Meredith didn't know, no family members knew how Michelle was killed. Any normal, innocent husband would ask the cops that are in his home investigating his wife's murder what the hell happened there ? Why is my wife dead, how did she die ?
Normal questions...

[frankdrack]

Warrant applications include information that is necessary to obtain information. We see in the latest affidavit that unknown DNA is mentioned while making a request for information about text messages with 23 new friends. The unknown DNA may not even be mentioned in court ... quite true ... but it's helpful when requesting info about new friends.

The fact that Jason was not interested in receiving any information from police about what happened in the house on the night of the murder is relevant to the case. It's not evidence in the sense that phone records are evidence, but the information can be stated during opening or closing arguments. This information alone frames Jason's attitude throughout the investigation.

I think that there are going to be very specific pre-trial rulings concerning what can/can’t be said about JY’s interactions, or lack of, with LE.

Since he invoked so early in the process I expect that the court will rule that many of the standard descriptions normally presented by the State are inadmissible in this case.

[janesdeaan]

I wonder about that a lot.

I also wonder if he planned the crime why he didn’t have “throwaway clothes” in his SUV.

Since he attempted to strangle her originally, probably never entered his mind he would be a bloody mess after killing her...Turns out he did have "throwaway clothes".

[frankdrack]

If he had LE on the phone, why wouldn't he ask them what happened in that house, how did Michelle die ? They would know and only they would know at that point in time. Meredith didn't know, no family members knew how Michelle was killed. Any normal, innocent husband would ask the cops that are in his home investigating his wife's murder what the hell happened there ? Why is my wife dead, how did she die ?
Normal questions...

I expect that he just told LE that he didn’t want to talk to them until he had secured legal counsel.

I bet that MF would tell him a lot more than LE would at that point.

[janesdeaan]

IMO, warrant applications are very different than trials.

Of course they are, but the facts used to obtain a search warrant are very important facts or the search warrants would never be issued.

[Tia]

Since he attempted to strangle her originally, probably never entered his mind he would be a bloody mess after killing her...Turns out he did have "throwaway clothes".

I agree, I don't think it turned out according to plan at all.

[Jester]

Would you think differently if you found out that before the LE call he had spoken with MF and C?

Are you saying that after police arrived at the scene and spoke with Meredith, they suggested she give Jason a call and tell him all about what happened, and that she then put Cassidy on the phone so Cassidy could have a chat with her dad? There are no phone records to support that, and Jason reportedly didn't know anything about it until Pat notified him.

Jason called Meredith 3 times in the early afternoon on Nov 3 to ask Meredith to go to the house. The last two were text or voice mail.

I don't believe that happened. I think police asked for contact info for Jason ... and were able to contact his mom. I doubt they would have gone into details with Pat other than to say that Cassidy was safe - since she was not next of kin. Pat decided not to tell Jason anything until he arrived. There is no record of Meredith having spoken with Jason before Pat notified Jason. When police did contact Jason, he was not interested in knowing what happened at the house.

When are you suggesting that Meredith and Cassidy spoke with Jason?

[frankdrack]

Since he attempted to strangle her originally, probably never entered his mind he would be a bloody mess after killing her...Turns out he did have "throwaway clothes".

The weird thing is that the information in the SW’s shows internet searches for:


Anatomy of a knockout
Head trauma knockout
Right posterior parietal occipital region (NOTE: The occipital region is the back of the head)

But nothing about strangulation.

[janesdeaan]

Would you think differently if you found out that before the LE call he had spoken with MF and C?

If I were in his position (but, innocent) I would be frantic trying to find out what was/or had gone on in that house. I would want to know desperately how my spouse had died, how my daughter was and I would absolutely want to ask the people who were IN that house investigating the murder those questions.

[frankdrack]

Are you saying that after police arrived at the scene and spoke with Meredith, they suggested she give Jason a call and tell him all about what happened, and that she then put Cassidy on the phone so Cassidy could have a chat with her dad? There are no there phone records to support that, and Jason reportedly didn't know anything about it until Pat notified him.

Jason called Meredith 3 times in the early afternoon on Nov 3 to ask Meredith to go to the house. The last two were text or voice mail.

I don't believe that happened. I think police asked for contact info for Jason ... and were able to contact his mom. I doubt they would have gone into details with Pat other than to say that Cassidy was safe - since she was not next of kin. Pat decided not to tell Jason anything until he arrived. There is no record of Meredith having spoken with Jason before Pat notified Jason. When police did contact Jason, he was not interested in knowing what happened at the house.

When are you suggesting that Meredith and Cassidy spoke with Jason?

I have not seen anything that outlines phone calls for people in the car heading back to Raleigh, or Pat’s calls after she is informed of the crime. I don’t think that it is reasonable that there were no phone calls after LE informed Pat and LE spoke to JY.

The call from LE to JY happened in the car on the ride back. I expect that someone heading back with JY reached out to MF before JY had the brief conversation with LE.

Does that seem reasonable to you?

[janesdeaan]

The weird thing is that the information in the SW’s shows internet searches for:


Anatomy of a knockout
Head trauma knockout
Right posterior parietal occipital region (NOTE: The occipital region is the back of the head)

But nothing about strangulation.

Yes he did search some word ischemia I think it was, which means constricting blood vessels or strangulation.

[achristie]

Nope. Not as a sister, wife, aunt, daughter, cousin, friend...let alone a parent. MOO

I agree, Swabby. Especially as a parent. I don't care what the arguments are. He's a man, his wife was murdered, his 2 year old was left walking around in her dead mother's blood and he's too devastated to go home? Baloney. We know he's supposedly a tough guy, don't we? You came here for that?

MOO Aggie

[frankdrack]

If I were in his position (but, innocent) I would be frantic trying to find out what was/or had gone on in that house. I would want to know desperately how my spouse had died, how my daughter was and I would absolutely want to ask the people who were IN that house investigating the murder those questions.

Do you think that LE would have given JY that information on Nov 3rd?

[Jester]

I have not seen anything that outlines phone calls for people in the car heading back to Raleigh, or Pat’s calls after she is informed of the crime. I don’t think that it is reasonable that there were no phone calls after LE informed Pat and LE spoke to JY.

The call from LE to JY happened in the car on the ride back. I expect that someone heading back with JY reached out to MF before JY had the brief conversation with LE.

Does that seem reasonable to you?

So Jason arrived in Brevard, the family packed up, waited for the sister to get off work, and then headed for Raleigh. During the roadtrip, police contacted Jason and he didn't want to talk. Are you suggesting that Meredith decided to phone Jason after Pat notified Jason, but before Police notified Jason? Wouldn't police have told Meredith that they would look after notification of Jason and that she should focus on Cassidy?

It doesn't seem reasonable. After Jason was notified, he could have phoned Meredith, but there is no phone record of it in the warrant. Meredith wouldn't have phoned Jason if she knew that Pat was going to notify him when he arrived because she had no way of knowing when he arrived.

I don't see any facts, phone records, or evidence to suggest that Meredith phoned Jason after Jason was notified and before the police contacted him.

[janesdeaan]

The weird thing is that the information in the SW’s shows internet searches for:


Anatomy of a knockout
Head trauma knockout
Right posterior parietal occipital region (NOTE: The occipital region is the back of the head)

But nothing about strangulation.

Yes he did search some word ischemia I think it was, which means constricting blood vessels or strangulation.


Strangling involves one or several mechanisms that interfere with the normal flow of oxygen

* Compression of the carotid arteries or jugular veins — causing cerebral ischemia
Cerebral ischemia
Brain ischemia, also known as cerebral ischemia, is a condition in which there is insufficient blood flow to the brain to meet metabolic demand. This leads to poor oxygen supply or cerebral hypoxia and thus to the death of brain tissue or cerebral infarction / ischemic stroke...

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Strangling

[frankdrack]

So Jason arrived in Brevard, the family packed up, waited for the sister to get off work, and then headed for Raleigh. During the roadtrip, police contacted Jason and he didn't want to talk. Are you suggesting that Meredith decided to phone Jason after Pat notified Jason, but before Police notified Jason? Wouldn't police have told Meredith that they would look after notification of Jason and that she should focus on Cassidy?

It doesn't seem reasonable. After Jason was notified, he could have phoned Meredith, but there is no phone record of it in the warrant. Meredith wouldn't have phoned Jason if she knew that Pat was going to notify him when he arrived because she had no way of knowing when he arrived.

I don't see any facts, phone records, or evidence to suggest that Meredith phoned Jason after Jason was notified and before the police contacted him.

I don’t think that LE has released the information about JY’s calls, or other people that were with him, after he was notified. Have you seen anything?

I think that it is very reasonable to think that someone spoke to MF before LE called JY.

We have seen so little of the evidence, only what LE used in the SW applications. I don’t think that there has been any reason for LE to include in the applications any evidence that is favorable to JY. The warrants are simply an investigative tool to gather information, not a bref on the case.

[janesdeaan]

Do you think that LE would have given JY that information on Nov 3rd?

I think they would, him being the spouse of Michelle and the father of Cassidy. I don't think Meredith knew enough about what had happened to Michelle to be able to tell JY anything. And, mainly since they kept citing the fact that he never asked in their applications for Search Warrants, I would sure hope they would have.

[Details]

I agree, but what confuses me is that some things seem very planned. Things like being away on a business trip, shoes smaller than normal size, & not being seen on the trip to/from home.

Other things seem to have almost no thought, like the missing clothes, calling MM so many times, showering at home.

It almost seems like he planned it out but decided at the last minute that he was going to actually do it at the last minute. IMOOr he planned it last minute, only got part of the planning done, figured it was good enough.

[frankdrack]

Yes he did search some word ischemia I think it was, which means constricting blood vessels or strangulation.


Strangling involves one or several mechanisms that interfere with the normal flow of oxygen

* Compression of the carotid arteries or jugular veins — causing cerebral ischemia
Cerebral ischemia
Brain ischemia, also known as cerebral ischemia, is a condition in which there is insufficient blood flow to the brain to meet metabolic demand. This leads to poor oxygen supply or cerebral hypoxia and thus to the death of brain tissue or cerebral infarction / ischemic stroke...

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Strangling

Sure but why “head trauma knockout” & “anatomy of a knockout” but why ischemia instead of strangle?

[frankdrack]

I think they would, him being the spouse of Michelle and the father of Cassidy.

I totally disagree.

IMO it is SOP for LE to not tell potential suspects much information about a crime.

[frankdrack]

Or he planned it last minute, only got part of the planning done, figured it was good enough.

Yes, strange behavior.

[Kat4Eagles]

I agree, but what confuses me is that some things seem very planned. Things like being away on a business trip, shoes smaller than normal size, & not being seen on the trip to/from home.

Other things seem to have almost no thought, like the missing clothes, calling MM so many times, showering at home.

It almost seems like he planned it out but decided at the last minute that he was going to actually do it at the last minute. IMO


Frank, if you had to weigh in now, unobjectively , of course, on Jason's innocence or guilt, which way are you leaning?

Kat

[jerry50]

I agree, but what confuses me is that some things seem very planned. Things like being away on a business trip, shoes smaller than normal size, & not being seen on the trip to/from home.

Other things seem to have almost no thought, like the missing clothes, calling MM so many times, showering at home.

It almost seems like he planned it out but decided at the last minute that he was going to actually do it at the last minute. IMO

The missing clothes and showering at home were not planned because he wasn't thinking along the lines of "Maybe Michelle will put up a fight and I will have to beat her to death." I think those were two ad libs.

The phone calls are nuts. I would love to see JY and MM's phone records for the preceding month and more. Making 50 calls/texts a day you would think that some would have been made during the night when they had privacy. Is Nov 2/3 the only night that JY did not receive or make calls/texts?

[frankdrack]

Frank, if you had to weigh in now, unobjectively , of course, on Jason's innocence or guilt, which way are you leaning?

Kat

My brain doesn't work that way. I need more evidence.

[Kat4Eagles]

The missing clothes and showering at home were not planned because he wasn't thinking along the lines of "Maybe Michelle will put up a fight and I will have to beat her to death." I think those were two ad libs.

The phone calls are nuts. I would love to see JY and MM's phone records for the preceding month and more. Making 50 calls/texts a day you would think that some would have been made during the night when they had privacy. Is Nov 2/3 the only night that JY did not receive or make calls/texts?


Okay, then what about the fax for an excuse for MF finding C?

How does that fit into the plan?

This is the info we have, I am not sure exactly what has been been established yet as fact vs.fiction, but , here goes.

On the nite before he leaves for his trip, Jason is on the computer looking for a purse on Ebay for Michelle, supposedly as a late anniversary present.

He supposedly shows the printout to the G A friend.

The purse he is interested in has an expiration on the bidding for that nite, I think.........

Somewhere along the trip he slaps himself on the head, and says, oops, I forgot to cover up the purse printout..

Is that why he called MF that NITE?

It says he called her 2 x Nov. 2nd, right?

So, now it is Nov/ 3rd, Jason calls Michelle at home and on her cell, and after getting no answer around noon, then calls MF at around
1:30 PM?

Was the fax the best excuse he could think of to get her over there?
Why not merely say, I can't reach Michelle, she should be at the Doctor's or work, and I can't find her.

"Could you go by the house and check to see if she is ok?"

Why throw the phoney fax in there that looks even more suspicious and not that important to begin with?
What kind of planning did that take?

That is one of the things that Frank is talking about, that makes it sound like it was an afterthought.

Kat

[frankdrack]

The missing clothes and showering at home were not planned because he wasn't thinking along the lines of "Maybe Michelle will put up a fight and I will have to beat her to death." I think those were two ad libs.

The phone calls are nuts. I would love to see JY and MM's phone records for the preceding month and more. Making 50 calls/texts a day you would think that some would have been made during the night when they had privacy. Is Nov 2/3 the only night that JY did not receive or make calls/texts?

But how can you go to the details of making sure that you are on a business trip, and getting shoes that are too small but not thinking that she was going to put up a fight? Hadn’t he studied cases with DNA under fingernails and hair from the attackers head being grasped in the victims hands?

I don’t know anything about his phone habits on others nights. It would be interesting to know if he usually shutoff his cell phone when he went to bed.

[Kat4Eagles]

My brain doesn't work that way. I need more evidence.


Good for you, cause I am getting tired of being the only one having to explain my hold out, so to speak !!

:)
Kat

[Jester]

I don’t think that LE has released the information about JY’s calls, or other people that were with him, after he was notified. Have you seen anything?

I think that it is very reasonable to think that someone spoke to MF before LE called JY.

We have seen so little of the evidence, only what LE used in the SW applications. I don’t think that there has been any reason for LE to include in the applications any evidence that is favorable to JY. The warrants are simply an investigative tool to gather information, not a bref on the case.

Page 14 of the most recent search warrant states that there were 3 calls from Jason to Meredith on November 3. It doesn't say that there were 3 calls before 3 pm on November 3, it states 3 calls for the day. The last two were text and voice. They were all before 2 PM, before Jason was notified. Therefore, Jason did not phone Meredith after he was notified of the murder, and Meredith would not have contacted him, as that was being done by police and Pat. She would have waited to hear from him ... which happened much later when he spent the night at her house.

[frankdrack]

Page 14 of the most recent search warrant states that there were 3 calls from Jason to Meredith on November 3. It doesn't say that there were 3 calls before 3 pm on November 3, it states 3 calls for the day. The last two were text and voice. They were all before 2 PM, before Jason was notified. Therefore, Jason did not phone Meredith after he was notified of the murder, and Meredith would not have contacted him, as that was being done by police and Pat. She would have waited to hear from him ... which happened much later when he spent the night at her house.

So you are completely ruling out that a call could have been placed from Pat’s home phone, or someone else’s cell phone?

[Kat4Eagles]

Yes, strange behavior.


Then, there is this!!

Let's say, Michelle was not supposed to die the way she did, and that C was to just think her Mom was asleep.

When exactly was she still going to be found?

She still needed rescue and recovery.

She would still be alone with Michelle's body.......

So, was there a back up plan, call a neighbor, call a friend, call a co~worker to get someone to the home?

I am not sure how Jason thought a fax for a purse was an emergency enough to get MF to run over there.

It was a stupid excuse for a stupid fax for a stupid purse for bidding that had ended.

Why would that be so urgent?

Kat

[achristie]

Didn't an insider post that he thought he would be arrested the very night he returned? He must have been so psyched when that didn't happen!:wink:

MOO Aggie

[frankdrack]

Is that why he called MF that NITE?

It says he called her 2 x Nov. 2nd, right?

So, now it is Nov/ 3rd, Jason calls Michelle at home and on her cell, and after getting no answer around noon, then calls MF at around
1:30 PM?


Kat

I don't think that we know when of the 2nd that JY called MF, just that he called her twice.

I believe that the first call that JY made to MF on the 3rd is at 12:10 PM

[Tia]

Didn't an insider post that he thought he would be arrested the very night he returned? He must have been so psyched when that didn't happen!:wink:

MOO Aggie

Didn't Pat say that in the interview...?

[Details]

Sure but why “head trauma knockout” & “anatomy of a knockout” but why ischemia instead of strangle?My thought - it was all about hitting her in the head. Ischemia would be looked up as an unfamiliar term from one of his head trauma searches that he looked up to see what they meant.

[Kat4Eagles]

So you are completely ruling out that a call could have been placed from Pat’s home phone, or someone else’s cell phone?


From what was posted here, MF supposedly called her Mother before calling 911 saying Michelle had a miscarriage.

I don't know when Michelle's death was ruled a homicide.

I don't even know what the Young's were told, but were told by LF, if I remember right.

The details were unclear, the calls were hysterical, and everyone was trying to make sense out of what happened to Michelle.

I think everyone from the beginning knew C was okay......and, passed this along to Jason when he arrived.

This is what I remember from reading old posts.

BTW, many old posts from here are still available @ Board Reader.

Kat

[Details]

Yes, strange behavior.Not to me. Think of it like planning a party. You start planning, figure out the date and time, start setting things up - then life gets in the way, you have to work, some bits of your planning get done, others get forgotten, or left to the last minute - maybe the party date even gets moved up suddenly (maybe due to having a fight with Michelle and doing it now in the heat of the moment?) - and you figure you've got enough done to let the party go ahead, even with a few missing bits.

[frankdrack]

Didn't an insider post that he thought he would be arrested the very night he returned? He must have been so psyched when that didn't happen!:wink:

MOO Aggie

His mother said that during her audio interview.

http://www.ncwanted.com/unsolved/audio/2062345/

[jerry50]

Okay, then what about the fax for an excuse for MF finding C?

How does that fit into the plan?

This is the info we have, I am not sure exactly what has been been established yet as fact vs.fiction, but , here goes.

On the nite before he leaves for his trip, Jason is on the computer looking for a purse on Ebay for Michelle, supposedly as a late anniversary present.

He supposedly shows the printout to the G A friend.

The purse he is interested in has an expiration on the bidding for that nite, I think.........

Somewhere along the trip he slaps himself on the head, and says, oops, I forgot to cover up the purse printout..

Is that why he called MF that NITE?

It says he called her 2 x Nov. 2nd, right?

So, now it is Nov/ 3rd, Jason calls Michelle at home and on her cell, and after getting no answer around noon, then calls MF at around
1:30 PM?

Was the fax the best excuse he could think of to get her over there?
Why not merely say, I can't reach Michelle, she should be at the Doctor's or work, and I can't find her.

"Could you go by the house and check to see if she is ok?"

Why throw the phoney fax in there that looks even more suspicious and not that important to begin with?
What kind of planning did that take?

That is one of the things that Frank is talking about, that makes it sound like it was an afterthought.

Kat

I don't think that JY could have used the reason that he could not get in touch with Michelle. With her pregnacy there would be reason to worry--but then wouldn't a responsible, loving husband turn his car around and head home? But he couldn't, if he was guilty, because then he would have had to talk to LE.

He needed an excuse to get someone to the house and the print out was the best one he thought of. Plus using the reason that he didn't want to spoil a surprise for Michelle would have given Meredith an emotional boost to go over there. She sure got to the house pretty quick after the phone call.

Any suggestions on any other "believeable" reasons to get someone to the house? Leaving the iron on doesn't work.

I think the call to Meredith is what is going to be what hangs him. There is no earthly excuse on why that day was probably the only time JY ever called her to go to the house and what do ya know? She discovers a dead body drenched in blood which makes her the one who has to talk to LE.

I think the call and getting Cassidy rescued is his Achilles heel.

[achristie]

Yes, strange behavior.

I think he thought about it, planned it, and somehow moved forward without thinking it all through. Maybe he thought he was big and strong and would have no problem overpowering his wife and strangling her? Maybe he thought he could hold her down, hand on her neck and smother her with a pillow? Then again, he bashed the hell out of her. Did he bring a weapon? We don't know.

[Kat4Eagles]

My thought - it was all about hitting her in the head. Ischemia would be looked up as an unfamiliar term from one of his head trauma searches that he looked up to see what they meant.


Not trying to sound gory, but how hard it is to figure out that if you hit someone on the head hard enough, they could die?

And, besides I thought Plan A was strangulation.

:confused:

Kat

[frankdrack]

Not to me. Think of it like planning a party. You start planning, figure out the date and time, start setting things up - then life gets in the way, you have to work, some bits of your planning get done, others get forgotten, or left to the last minute - maybe the party date even gets moved up suddenly (maybe due to having a fight with Michelle and doing it now in the heat of the moment?) - and you figure you've got enough done to let the party go ahead, even with a few missing bits.

I know that I am weird but the more important the task the more detailed the list.

Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

I don’t think anyone will fully understand what happened.

[Details]

But how can you go to the details of making sure that you are on a business trip, and getting shoes that are too small but not thinking that she was going to put up a fight? Hadn’t he studied cases with DNA under fingernails and hair from the attackers head being grasped in the victims hands?

I don’t know anything about his phone habits on others nights. It would be interesting to know if he usually shutoff his cell phone when he went to bed.He hadn't ever (that we know) strangled or killed anyone before - he likely figured she'd be asleep, maybe that he'd hit her hard enough in the head, she'd just be knocked out, all done. He was doing research, from the web searches posted, that could be all about figuring out where and how hard to hit her to knock her out with the first blow.

Then - the first hit is not hard enough, or she wakes up when he walks in - and there we go. Or maybe that fight that they may have had (those calls sound very much like a fight - a lot of hanging up on the other party, short calls) made him angry enough to want to hurt her more. We simply don't know again, without the murderer telling us the tale, exactly how it went down.

[Kat4Eagles]

Not to me. Think of it like planning a party. You start planning, figure out the date and time, start setting things up - then life gets in the way, you have to work, some bits of your planning get done, others get forgotten, or left to the last minute - maybe the party date even gets moved up suddenly (maybe due to having a fight with Michelle and doing it now in the heat of the moment?) - and you figure you've got enough done to let the party go ahead, even with a few missing bits.


But , Details, why that nite?
Why did it have to be that nite?
Was there some reason Michelle had to die right then?

This murder has always sounded out of control to me.....

Kat

[Tia]

His mother said that during her audio interview.

http://www.ncwanted.com/unsolved/audio/2062345/

Thanks Frank. I thought she said it there.

[frankdrack]

I think he thought about it, planned it, and somehow moved forward without thinking it all through. Maybe he thought he was big and strong and would have no problem overpowering his wife and strangling her? Maybe he thought he could hold her down, hand on her neck and smother her with a pillow? Then again, he bashed the hell out of her. Did he bring a weapon? We don't know.

If he did it, I think that you are correct. He worked through the plan, started to put some of the stuff together but didn’t think that was the night. Something changed his mind, and suddenly he was heading home.

Not thinking she would fight back is stupidity or arrogance.

[Details]

I know that I am weird but the more important the task the more detailed the list.

Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

I don’t think anyone will fully understand what happened.Kinda the point though - you're weird (:tonguewag:) - as you say - and you're not a killer nor Jason.

Most people don't plan. Some plan, but only partially - get some of the details, they think it will be enough, MOST don't think through all the contingencies. Like, "what if she wakes up?" and "Oh shoot - someone has to go find Cassidy" and "I didn't properly set up this person for that question, better call them now!"

Life intrudes. Having a kid, a wife, a girlfriend, a job, friends, meals, games, etc. all distract you.

[achristie]

If he did it, I think that you are correct. He worked through the plan, started to put some of the stuff together but didn’t think that was the night. Something changed his mind, and suddenly he was heading home.

Not thinking she would fight back is stupidity or arrogance.

Oh, I think he knew before he left the house for the hotel. Why that night? We'll probably never know.

MOO Aggie

[Details]

If he did it, I think that you are correct. He worked through the plan, started to put some of the stuff together but didn’t think that was the night. Something changed his mind, and suddenly he was heading home.

Not thinking she would fight back is stupidity or arrogance.I can really see not thinking she would fight back. He's her husband. He knows how soundly she sleeps, and whether or not he wakes her up when he comes in (at least he thinks so). One good hard hit to the head can kill, let alone knock someone out - it would seem a foolproof plan - come in quietly, she's asleep in bed, a hard blow to the head and she's not going to wake up, one or two more if needed - all done.

I don't think it's all that stupid. Of course - what he missed (in this scenario) - she may sleep more lightly when he's not home, she may still be awake, and he may not hit hard enough.


I think he thought he had a good plan together. But he forgot about who would take care of Cassidy, didn't plan for her to fight back, didn't realize there was another security camera that would see him leave the hotel.

[Kat4Eagles]

I don't think that JY could have used the reason that he could not get in touch with Michelle. With her pregnacy there would be reason to worry--but then wouldn't a responsible, loving husband turn his car around and head home? But he couldn't, if he was guilty, because then he would have had to talk to LE.

He needed an excuse to get someone to the house and the print out was the best one he thought of. Plus using the reason that he didn't want to spoil a surprise for Michelle would have given Meredith an emotional boost to go over there. She sure got to the house pretty quick after the phone call.

Any suggestions on any other "believeable" reasons to get someone to the house? Leaving the iron on doesn't work.

I think the call to Meredith is what is going to be what hangs him. There is no earthly excuse on why that day was probably the only time JY ever called her to go to the house and what do ya know? She discovers a dead body drenched in blood which makes her the one who has to talk to LE.

I think the call and getting Cassidy rescued is his Achilles heel.



He could have called a neighbor, saying he was out of town, and couldnt reach his wife.
He called have called Michelle at work, did he?
He could have called the Doctor to see if she kept her app't, it was rumored she had one.
He could have called C's nursery or pre~school to see if she was there.

Then, when he exhausted all possibilities of where Michelle could be, but wasn't, then he could do the panic phonecall.

The only other motive that comes to mind, is that maybe he wanted

Michelle to terminate her pregnancy, she refused, thus forcing him to

stay married, and not free him to be with MM, and the hate continued to build over the months.

The more he waited, the more trapped he felt.

The more he considered Michelle to be what stood in his way of freedom and happiness with MM or anyone else.

Is it possible that Michelle's pregnancy could have signed her own death warrant.?

:(

JMO

Kat

[Tia]

Oh, I think he knew before he left the house for the hotel. Why that night? We'll probably never know.

MOO Aggie

He may have been losely planning her murder for a while, had certain details worked out, and something set him off that night.
Who knows how the mind of a killer works.

[Details]

Not trying to sound gory, but how hard it is to figure out that if you hit someone on the head hard enough, they could die?

And, besides I thought Plan A was strangulation.

:confused:

KatIf you find the right spot to hit, maybe you can pull that off without it being gory. Not to mention - how hard is hard enough? And there are better and worse spots to hit.

I'm not Jason, so I don't know what plan A or B was. The searches I've seen reported all link to the head, to me. I've only ever seen Ischemia used in head trauma cases (watching medical shows) - and the plain english searches refer to head trauma.

[sorsista]

He could have called a neighbor, saying he was out of town, and couldnt reach his wife.
He called have called Michelle at work, did he?
He could have called the Doctor to see if she kept her app't, it was rumored she had one.
He could have called C's nursery or pre~school to see if she was there.

Then, when he exhausted all possibilities of where Michelle could be, but wasn't, then he could do the panic phonecall.

The only other motive that comes to mind, is that maybe he wanted

Michelle to terminate her pregnancy, she refused, thus forcing him to

stay married, and not free him to be with MM, and the hate continued to build over the months.

The more he waited, the more trapped he felt.

The more he considered Michelle to be what stood in his way of freedom and happiness with MM or anyone else.

Is it possible that Michelle's pregnancy could have signed her own death warrant.?

:(

JMO

Kat

Yes. That is very, very possible.

[Details]

But , Details, why that nite?
Why did it have to be that nite?
Was there some reason Michelle had to die right then?

This murder has always sounded out of control to me.....

KatMaybe because they had a fight; maybe because of his business trip that would make a good alibi. Who knows, maybe some secret girlfriend giving him ultimatums. Or maybe his astrology chart was particularly good for that day.

We're not the killer, we don't get to know unless he tells us.

[Details]

....
Is it possible that Michelle's pregnancy could have signed her own death warrant.?IIRC, the most common reason for pregnant women to die - it's not complications from pregnancy - murder by the father. It's a very high risk time.

After birth, he'd be on the hook with another little kid - and he apparently didn't want to kill children.


And - on that cheerful note - off to my Perinatologist for a little ultrasound! :scared:

[frankdrack]

Does anyone know what time the GA friend left the house?

There were 17 phone calls from JY's cell to home between 9:56 PM & 11:04PM on Nov 2nd. It would be interesting to know how many of those she was there for.

[Kat4Eagles]

Maybe because they had a fight; maybe because of his business trip that would make a good alibi. Who knows, maybe some secret girlfriend giving him ultimatums. Or maybe his astrology chart was particularly good for that day.

We're not the killer, we don't get to know unless he tells us.



Well, with SP we could see the facts laid out for us of how Scott meticulousy and methodically planned to kill Laci, by the tidal charts, etc, and buying the secret boat.

He even planned this before he met Amber , but I am sure she was the extra incentive ro make him follow through..

But, with Jason, why was time running out?

Was it because once Laci and Michelle had their babies, it would be one more thing/person to deal with?

Kat

[jerry50]

Then, there is this!!

Let's say, Michelle was not supposed to die the way she did, and that C was to just think her Mom was asleep.

When exactly was she still going to be found?

She still needed rescue and recovery.

She would still be alone with Michelle's body.......

So, was there a back up plan, call a neighbor, call a friend, call a co~worker to get someone to the home?

I am not sure how Jason thought a fax for a purse was an emergency enough to get MF to run over there.

It was a stupid excuse for a stupid fax for a stupid purse for bidding that had ended.

Why would that be so urgent?

Kat

Since JY showed the printout to GA it leaves no doubt in my mind that the printout was the excuse to rescue Cassidy and discover Michelle.

The bloody crime scene may have shocked him enough that he was thrown off his plan on calling Meredith sooner.

Meredith knew that JY and Michelle didn't get along so JY calling for her help in being able to surprise Michelle may have given her a reason to go over there since JY was being so "thoughtful".

His reason to get someone over to the house had to be simple enough that someone with a key could do it. Any more complicated, Michelle can't be reached, somethings wrong, and he would be "obligated" to return home to check on it himself.

Besides, when someone thinks that he has planned the perfect murder everything must look like it's all falling into place. A touch of narcissim and arrogance doesn't help either.

I think what makes everything difficult to understand is that we would never think of planning a murder that it is such a shock to see what someone else has planned and done.
Also his one thought at that point was he did not want to be arrested for murder after all his careful planning and he certainly did not want to talk to LE. Plus he had to face his Mom.

[enigma™]

Thanks to 5Swab5 for outlining the calls on the previous thread. Something is bothering me about the sequence of the afternoon calls, but I cannot put my finger on it.

Nov. 3rd

7:49AM first phone call to Michelle Money
12:02PM call to Michelle Young's work
12:10PM cell phone message to Meredith Fisher
12:17PM call to Michelle Young's cell
(somewhere in here there are 27 calls to Pat Young)

He called Michelle at work. Obviously she is not there. He then calls Meredith 8 minutes later, leaving her a message to retrieve the print-out, then he calls Michelle's cell? All this points to him knowing that Michelle was never going to answer her phone or any phone again. Why would he not call her cell before calling Meredith? He knew. Then he lures an unsuspecting Meredith to discover his handiwork. Nice. MUO

[Kat4Eagles]

Does anyone know what time the GA friend left the house?

There were 17 phone calls from JY's cell to home between 9:56 PM & 11:04PM on Nov 2nd. It would be interesting to know how many of those she was there for.


I believe she left between 10:45 and 11:00

Michelle and **** watched Gray's Anatomy from 9 to 10pm..

Someone said Michelle asked Jason to call her back after the show.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Yes. That is very, very possible.


I have come around, and it took me awhile.

And, I still have questions and I still don't want it to be Jason, but there is so much against him.

You are someone I do owe an apology to....

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Maybe because they had a fight; maybe because of his business trip that would make a good alibi. Who knows, maybe some secret girlfriend giving him ultimatums. Or maybe his astrology chart was particularly good for that day.

We're not the killer, we don't get to know unless he tells us.


Okay, but just how was he going to explain Michelle's murder to MM?

"I didn't have anything to do with it, I was in a hotel room miles away."

What was going to happen to them if they did get together, then he was arrested, then what?

So, how perfect was this crime, afterall?

I know, I know, there is no such thing as a perfect crime, but Jason almost had it made after 3+ years.....

Kat

I wonder if and when MM started doubting him??

[jerry50]

Okay, but just how was he going to explain Michelle's murder to MM?

"I didn't have anything to do with it, I was in a hotel room miles away."

What was going to happen to them if they did get together, then he was arrested, then what?

So, how perfect was this crime, afterall?

I know, I know, there is no such thing as a perfect crime, but Jason almost had it made after 3+ years.....

Kat

I don't think Jason almost made it after 3+ years. LE knew it was more than likely him and they needed the time in the last 3+ years to collect, gather, test and wait for evidence to comeback. Michelle's was not the only case LE had to handle in that amount of time. Can you imagine the time it took to gather all of the pieces of evidence, copies of interviews, copies of re-interviews, go to meetings, write reports, etc, etc. I was in probate court yesterday to look at a file and get 10 pages printed. It took 2 hours. Multiply that against the thousands of pages this case has consumed and we may wonder why it didn't take the DA longer to arrest him.

[achristie]

Does anyone know what time the GA friend left the house?

There were 17 phone calls from JY's cell to home between 9:56 PM & 11:04PM on Nov 2nd. It would be interesting to know how many of those she was there for.

Based on the timing of the show-it began at 10p.m.-she was there for some of them. She should be an interesting witness. The last known person to see her alive.IMO.

[frankdrack]

Based on the timing of the show-it began at 10p.m.-she was there for some of them. She should be an interesting witness. The last known person to see her alive.IMO.

I think that the show was 9-10 PM. The calls started at 9:56 PM. I agreee that she will be an interesting witness.

[Kat4Eagles]

I don't think Jason almost made it after 3+ years. LE knew it was more than likely him and they needed the time in the last 3+ years to collect, gather, test and wait for evidence to comeback. Michelle's was not the only case LE had to handle in that amount of time. Can you imagine the time it took to gather all of the pieces of evidence, copies of interviews, copies of re-interviews, go to meetings, write reports, etc, etc. I was in probate court yesterday to look at a file and get 10 pages printed. It took 2 hours. Multiply that against the thousands of pages this case has consumed and we may wonder why it didn't take the DA longer to arrest him.

Yes, he did have it made.
He was free all that time, and we know he jetted to Puerto Rico, and anywhere else he wanted.
It was rumored he was on a football team in Charlotte, and he played bball in Brevard.
No, it does not take that long to make an arrest!
Building a case for court is another thing.
Yes, that takes time.
And, as we saw with the new s/w's they still need more time.

Do you see anyone asking for a speedy trial yet or will we?

Kat

[Jester]

So you are completely ruling out that a call could have been placed from Pat’s home phone, or someone else’s cell phone?

Yes, I'm ruling out the possibility that Jason called Meredith using someone else's phone when he had his own phone. I don't see any reason to do mental acrobatics to try to explain why Jason didn't want any information from police about the murder. He didn't call Meredith and ask her what happened. She didn't call him. It's farfetched to suggest that he borrowed a phone to call Meredith when his own phone was in his pocket.

Bottom line is he wasn't interested, and he didn't care. He already knew what happened, so he didn't need anyone to tell him about it.

[frankdrack]

Yes, I'm ruling out the possibility that Jason called Meredith using someone else's phone when he had his own phone. I don't see any reason to do mental acrobatics to try to explain why Jason didn't want any information from police about the murder. He didn't call Meredith and ask her what happened. She didn't call him. It's farfetched to suggest that he borrowed a phone to call Meredith when his own phone was in his pocket.

Bottom line is he wasn't interested, and he didn't care. He already knew what happened, so he didn't need anyone to tell him about it.

Time will tell...

[Jester]

I don't think that we know when of the 2nd that JY called MF, just that he called her twice.

I believe that the first call that JY made to MF on the 3rd is at 12:10 PM

Read page 14 of the latest warrant. You keep saying that we don't know how many calls Jason made to Meredith, and now that we don't know when the calls were made.

You linked the warrant yesterday, but I'm not convinced you read it.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/news_briefs/2010/01/04/6739176/Dec._30_2009_search_warrant_for_Jason_Young_s_text _messages.pdf

[Kat4Eagles]

The show in Nov. 2006 was aired on Thursday nites at 9:00-10:00 pm
EST, Michelle's time.

Just go to TV Listings, then Grey's Anatomy, then 2006, it is right there.

Kat

[frankdrack]

Read page 14 of the latest warrant. You keep saying that we don't know how many calls Jason made to Meredith, and now that we don't know when the calls were made.

You linked the warrant yesterday, but I'm not convinced you read it.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/news_briefs/2010/01/04/6739176/Dec._30_2009_search_warrant_for_Jason_Young_s_text _messages.pdf

I don't think that we don't know the time of the calls on the 2nd, not the number of the calls.

[Jester]

From what was posted here, MF supposedly called her Mother before calling 911 saying Michelle had a miscarriage.

I don't know when Michelle's death was ruled a homicide.

I don't even know what the Young's were told, but were told by LF, if I remember right.

The details were unclear, the calls were hysterical, and everyone was trying to make sense out of what happened to Michelle.

I think everyone from the beginning knew C was okay......and, passed this along to Jason when he arrived.

This is what I remember from reading old posts.

BTW, many old posts from here are still available @ Board Reader.

Kat

Do you really believe that a woman with a degree in psychology can't tell the difference between someone having a miscarriage, and someone murdered on the floor?

You're going to have to give a link to this miscarriage statement. I've never heard that in the three years of reading about the case.

[janesdeaan]

SNIPPED:
I know, I know, there is no such thing as a perfect crime, but Jason almost had it made after 3+ years.....Kat

I can't believe I am reading this :sad:

[Jester]

I believe she left between 10:45 and 11:00

Michelle and **** watched Gray's Anatomy from 9 to 10pm..

Someone said Michelle asked Jason to call her back after the show.

Kat

I believe she left at 10:00 PM. Someone said that Michelle's friend left right after the show.

[Kat4Eagles]

I don't think that we don't know the time of the calls on the 2nd, not the number of the calls.

No, you are right!!

There is no times listed for the calls on the 2nd, just that there were 2 of them.

Oct. 16th 3 calls
Nov.2 2 calls
Nov 3... 3 calls @
12:10
1:35
1:36
the last one says it could have been a text.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

SNIPPED:
I know, I know, there is no such thing as a perfect crime, but Jason almost had it made after 3+ years.....Kat

I can't believe I am reading this :sad:


You can believe anything if it is taken out of context!!

:)
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Do you really believe that a woman with a degree in psychology can't tell the difference between someone having a miscarriage, and someone murdered on the floor?

You're going to have to give a link to this miscarriage statement. I've never heard that in the three years of reading about the case.


Well, it is true, check old posts!!

The initial report on Michelle was that the families thought she had a miscarriage.
You do remember that MF thought she also fell at first, how would someone with a degree think that either?

It was probably awhile before anyone knew what really happened, except L E, of course.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I believe she left at 10:00 PM. Someone said that Michelle's friend left right after the show.


It was posted she left somewhere between 10: 30 -10:45, I don't think she would run out right after the show, Michelle was her friend and they probably chatted.

I also remember reading Michelle walked her out to her car.

Maybe took Mr. G out too.

Kat

[Jester]

Well, it is true, check old posts!!

The initial report on Michelle was that the families thought she had a miscarriage.
You do remember that MF thought she also fell at first, how would someone with a degree think that either?

It was probably awhile before anyone knew what really happened, except L E, of course.

Kat

I think that erroneous idea was in the same category as innuendo about drugs, and other slander.

You say that "the families thought [that Michelle] had a miscarriage." Where would they get this idea? Are you suggesting that Meredith found Michelle and Cassidy, phoned the families and talked about miscarriage while Michelle lay on the floor in a pool of blood, unresponsive and cold? It's unbelievable that this could have happened.

I thought that Meredith asked Cassidy if Michelle fell, not that she reported to police that her sister fell. What a psychologist says to a 2 year old at a murder scene, and what she believes, are probably quite different.

[jerry50]

Yes, he did have it made.
He was free all that time, and we know he jetted to Puerto Rico, and anywhere else he wanted.
It was rumored he was on a football team in Charlotte, and he played bball in Brevard.
No, it does not take that long to make an arrest!
Building a case for court is another thing.
Yes, that takes time.
And, as we saw with the new s/w's they still need more time.

Do you see anyone asking for a speedy trial yet or will we?

Kat

I guess I don't think that he had it made at all.

He was unemployable, could not register at a school, had lost his friends, went on vacations with his "Mom", played b-ball with 20 year olds, lost custody of his daughter, didn't have a home to call his own and owed his mother-in-law over $15M. Anyone here jealous?

I believe that the DA has already worked on building a case and that contributed to the delay in arresting him. I don't think that as good as Colin Willoughby is, he would not have moved forward unless his ducks were all in a row.

If JY's lawyer feels that the evidence persented to him in discovery are not well organized or investigated he would recommend a speedy trial, but I don't expect that would happen.

I don't think that with the new search warrants that LE needs more time. I think that they are still investigating every piece of information and evidence coming in to them and I would expect them to keep that up through the trial.

[achristie]

I think that the show was 9-10 PM. The calls started at 9:56 PM. I agreee that she will be an interesting witness.

You're right. Can you tell I don't watch too many of these shows? I read in a timeline somewhere that she left at 10:30, so she maybe was there for some of the calls.

[Kat4Eagles]

I think that erroneous idea was in the same category as innuendo about drugs, and other slander.

You say that "the families thought [that Michelle] had a miscarriage." Where would they get this idea? Are you suggesting that Meredith found Michelle and Cassidy, phoned the families and talked about miscarriage while Michelle lay on the floor in a pool of blood, unresponsive and cold? It's unbelievable that this could have happened.

I thought that Meredith asked Cassidy if Michelle fell, not that she reported to police that her sister fell. What a psychologist says to a 2 year old at a murder scene, and what she believes, are probably quite different.


What slander is that, Jester?
I am sure CW wants us to stay on topic,and, we have been doing so nicely all day.!!

The first or first few phonecalls to LF from MF were supposedly made before the 911 call , how do I know what was said?

I read here that MF was hysterical, that no one could understand what happened, and at first, they thought she had a miscarriage.

You would have to take that up with the original posters..

Do you hear anywhere on the 911 call that Michelle was murdered?

So, is it possible than when LF called Jason she didn't even know that herself.?

Hmm, interesting...come to think of it.

When exactly that afternoon was it released that Michelle's death was ruled a homicide?

Kat

[5swab5]

Then, there is this!!

Let's say, Michelle was not supposed to die the way she did, and that C was to just think her Mom was asleep.

When exactly was she still going to be found?

She still needed rescue and recovery.

She would still be alone with Michelle's body.......

So, was there a back up plan, call a neighbor, call a friend, call a co~worker to get someone to the home?

I am not sure how Jason thought a fax for a purse was an emergency enough to get MF to run over there.

It was a stupid excuse for a stupid fax for a stupid purse for bidding that had ended.

Why would that be so urgent?

Kat

BBM^^


They had out of town guests en route for the big football weekend.

Was it ever said exactly when the bidding on the purse ended? What a stupid excuse to get Meredith to the house. To hide a piece of paper for a LATE Anniversary present...for an auction that had already ended. Details, the devil is in the details. MOO

[frankdrack]

You're right. Can you tell I don't watch too many of these shows? I read in a timeline somewhere that she left at 10:30, so she maybe was there for some of the calls.

It would be nice to know what the mood was in the house before & after JY left.

I guess that it would be nice to just know more.

[Kat4Eagles]

BBM^^


They had out of town guests en route for the big football weekend.

Was it ever said exactly when the bidding on the purse ended? What a stupid excuse to get Meredith to the house. To hide a piece of paper for a LATE Anniversary present...for an auction that had already ended. Details, the devil is in the details. MOO

I agree with that, Swabby........
Completely.

Kat

[achristie]

Snipped for brevity

[QUOTE=jerry50;13766372]I guess I don't think that he had it made at all.

He was unemployable, could not register at a school, had lost his friends, went on vacations with his "Mom", played b-ball with 20 year olds, lost custody of his daughter, didn't have a home to call his own and owed his mother-in-law over $15M. Anyone here jealous?

You've summed it up quite nicely, Jerry. The life of a free man. Somehow I don't think it was the freedom he envisioned.:wink:

MOO

[5swab5]

Well, it is true, check old posts!!

The initial report on Michelle was that the families thought she had a miscarriage.
You do remember that MF thought she also fell at first, how would someone with a degree think that either?

It was probably awhile before anyone knew what really happened, except L E, of course.

Kat

Just because it was "in an old post", does not make it true. Rumors were rampant. Same with the notion of Michelle YOUNG walking her friend to the car. ALL rumors. MOO

[frankdrack]

BBM^^



Was it ever said exactly when the bidding on the purse ended?

The only thing that I have read on the timing of the purse is from the SW’s.

“It has been determined that the auction items from the printouts and the computer data search were for auctions that would have ended prior to Mr. Young arriving at the Hampton Inn in Hillsville. Va.

[Cardinal]

Well, it is true, check old posts!!

The initial report on Michelle was that the families thought she had a miscarriage.
You do remember that MF thought she also fell at first, how would someone with a degree think that either?

It was probably awhile before anyone knew what really happened, except L E, of course.

Kat

What I recall is that Pat Young thought Michelle may have had a miscarriage, because when Linda called Pat, all Pat got was that Michelle was dead and there was lots of blood.

If that's true, then on the one hand, it could be used to explain why Jason didn't ask questions about Michelle's manner of death or Cassidy's wellbeing.

OTOH, if that's what he thought, it doesn't at all explain why he didn't ask questions about hearing from LE. Shouldn't there have been something like - why are you calling, I thought my wife had a miscarriage? And could he possibly be so squeamish that he couldn't stand seeing the aftermath of a miscarriage. I don't think so, since he later attempted nursing school.

JMO

IIRC

[Kat4Eagles]

I guess I don't think that he had it made at all.

He was unemployable, could not register at a school, had lost his friends, went on vacations with his "Mom", played b-ball with 20 year olds, lost custody of his daughter, didn't have a home to call his own and owed his mother-in-law over $15M. Anyone here jealous?

I believe that the DA has already worked on building a case and that contributed to the delay in arresting him. I don't think that as good as Colin Willoughby is, he would not have moved forward unless his ducks were all in a row.

If JY's lawyer feels that the evidence persented to him in discovery are not well organized or investigated he would recommend a speedy trial, but I don't expect that would happen.

I don't think that with the new search warrants that LE needs more time. I think that they are still investigating every piece of information and evidence coming in to them and I would expect them to keep that up through the trial.


Jason had it made, in the sense, that he was not in jail sooner.
Thus, giving him 3+ years of freedom, no matter how you look at it.

Unless, there is a direct flight from jail to Puerto Rico that I am unaware of every day.

I bet there are a lot of inmates that wished they had the extra time Jason had, and I bet Brad Cooper is/was jealous.

:)

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

It would be nice to know what the mood was in the house before & after JY left.

I guess that it would be nice to just know more.



Supposedly, everything was fine.
I think he kissed her goodbye, told her he would call her later.

I wonder how he could keep calling her knowing she would dead in hours, and that this would be the last time he heard her voice.

Some things still don't fit, huh?

Kat

[5swab5]

Thanks to 5Swab5 for outlining the calls on the previous thread. Something is bothering me about the sequence of the afternoon calls, but I cannot put my finger on it.

Nov. 3rd

7:49AM first phone call to Michelle Money
12:02PM call to Michelle Young's work
12:10PM cell phone message to Meredith Fisher
12:17PM call to Michelle Young's cell
(somewhere in here there are 27 calls to Pat Young)

He called Michelle at work. Obviously she is not there. He then calls Meredith 8 minutes later, leaving her a message to retrieve the print-out, then he calls Michelle's cell? All this points to him knowing that Michelle was never going to answer her phone or any phone again. Why would he not call her cell before calling Meredith? He knew. Then he lures an unsuspecting Meredith to discover his handiwork. Nice. MUO

Excellent point! IF it had all been legit....Why send Meredith to the house, if he didn't know where Michelle was. Details.

Easy to understand mistakes tho, bet his heart was going a mile a minute. MOO

[Kat4Eagles]

Just because it was "in an old post", does not make it true. Rumors were rampant. Same with the notion of Michelle YOUNG walking her friend to the car. ALL rumors. MOO


Well, if and when we get to trial, we can separate rumor vs. fact, once and for all.

It was also posted that Jason had no friends left, and yet the new s/w's show 23 new contacts.!!

Amazing, sometimes.

Kat

[5swab5]

The only thing that I have read on the timing of the purse is from the SW’s.

“It has been determined that the auction items from the printouts and the computer data search were for auctions that would have ended prior to Mr. Young arriving at the Hampton Inn in Hillsville. Va.

Yep, but no time stamp. GRRRRRR!

[Kat4Eagles]

What I recall is that Pat Young thought Michelle may have had a miscarriage, because when Linda called Pat, all Pat got was that Michelle was dead and there was lots of blood.

If that's true, then on the one hand, it could be used to explain why Jason didn't ask questions about Michelle's manner of death or Cassidy's wellbeing.

OTOH, if that's what he thought, it doesn't at all explain why he didn't ask questions about hearing from LE. Shouldn't there have been something like - why are you calling, I thought my wife had a miscarriage? And could he possibly be so squeamish that he couldn't stand seeing the aftermath of a miscarriage. I don't think so, since he later attempted nursing school.

JMO

IIRC

Thank you for the confirmation, I was looking up a good defense lawyer !!

You are right, it works both ways for Jason, but, when exactly, did anyone know for sure Michelle was murdered?

Besides LE??

Kat

[Cardinal]

Supposedly, everything was fine.
I think he kissed her goodbye, told her he would call her later.

I wonder how he could keep calling her knowing she would dead in hours, and that this would be the last time he heard her voice.

Some things still don't fit, huh?

Kat

Nothing yet has convinced me that he was committed to killing her when he left the house that night (not to say that new information won't convince me.)

And the number of phone calls to both Michelles reinforces my suspicion that something erupted after he left that night.

JMO

[Cardinal]

Thank you for the confirmation, I was looking up a good defense lawyer !!

You are right, it works both ways for Jason, but, when exactly, did anyone know for sure Michelle was murdered?

Besides LE??

Kat

Apparently between the time Meredith found her and the time LE called Jason.

But wouldn't you question hearing from LE about your wife's death? Wouldn't you ask something before clamming up?

[Kat4Eagles]

Thank you for the confirmation, I was looking up a good defense lawyer !!

You are right, it works both ways for Jason, but, when exactly, did anyone know for sure Michelle was murdered?

Besides LE??

Kat

ETA:
In the family, I mean.
When was Alan Fisher notified and by whom?

[Kat4Eagles]

Nothing yet has convinced me that he was committed to killing her when he left the house that night (not to say that new information won't convince me.)

And the number of phone calls to both Michelles reinforces my suspicion that something erupted after he left that night.

JMO

I always thought if Jason did this, it was not pre~med, but something that triggered a fight, and not even wanting Michelle dead, but somehow it got out of hand.

It is possible that he came home to reason with her.

It would account for no extra clothes and needing the fax to rescue C.

It is also possible that the security camera unplugged was just a fluke too, as why would you unplug one but not another.?

Maybe someone tripped over the cord.

What dumb access to a security camera anyway.!!

Say the place gets robbed, the suspects just unplug the cord which is right there for them to do, how dumb is that?

Kat

[Cardinal]

ETA:
In the family, I mean.
When was Alan Fisher notified and by whom?

I don't know, Kat - I don't think it has ever been mentioned. My guess would be Linda or Meredith, sometime that day.

[Kat4Eagles]

Apparently between the time Meredith found her and the time LE called Jason.

But wouldn't you question hearing from LE about your wife's death? Wouldn't you ask something before clamming up?

Unless you were guilty, or unless you were warned by your friends that L E is looking for you.

PS:

How is L E going to explain the unidentifiable or foreign print in the splatter?

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I don't know, Kat - I don't think it has ever been mentioned. My guess would be Linda or Meredith, sometime that day.

So, if the info posted here was correct, LF suspected Jason right away, MF didn't, as she wanted to move in with him, and AF gave him the benefit of the doubt, until some of Jason's actions when he went to visit with C became questionable/suspicious.

Kat

[Cardinal]

I always thought if Jason did this, it was not pre~med, but something that triggered a fight, and not even wanting Michelle dead, but somehow it got out of hand.

It is possible that he came home to reason with her.

It would account for no extra clothes and needing the fax to rescue C.

It is also possible that the security camera unplugged was just a fluke too, as why would you unplug one but not another.?

Maybe someone tripped over the cord.

What dumb access to a security camera anyway.!!

Say the place gets robbed, the suspects just unplug the cord which is right there for them to do, how dumb is that?

Kat

The internet searches make me think that Jason had at least thought about killing Michelle. But there's a long way between thinking about it and doing it, for most people at least.

As for the clothes - the contents of the suitcase are just bizarre, IMO. Shorts and t-shirts in November? One set, maybe, but 3??? It's like he just threw things into a suitcase for the heck of it. Of course, he did have more seasonally appropriate clothes, but they're missing.

I don't think anyone could have tripped over the camera cord. The ones I've seen have very short cords and are plugged into an outlet high on the wall, near where they're mounted. Whoever unplugged that camera did so deliberately, IMO. And the timeframe during which it was unplugged is strong evidence for the prosecution, also IMO.

JMO

[Cardinal]

Unless you were guilty, or unless you were warned by your friends that L E is looking for you.

PS:

How is L E going to explain the unidentifiable or foreign print in the splatter?

Kat

So you think Jason's guilt over his infidelity translated into clamming up? Maybe. But I don't think it explains the rest of his bothersome, to me, behavior.

[jerry50]

I always thought if Jason did this, it was not pre~med, but something that triggered a fight, and not even wanting Michelle dead, but somehow it got out of hand.

It is possible that he came home to reason with her.

It would account for no extra clothes and needing the fax to rescue C.

It is also possible that the security camera unplugged was just a fluke too, as why would you unplug one but not another.?

Maybe someone tripped over the cord.

What dumb access to a security camera anyway.!!

Say the place gets robbed, the suspects just unplug the cord which is right there for them to do, how dumb is that?

Kat

Kat, I thought exactly that when I first heard about the murder. But now I think that if they were arguing on the phone they would keep talking, maybe hanging up on each other and calling back? There would be phone records with pings letting LE know that he was on his way back to Raleigh. That would make sense if the murder was unplanned.

The printout is the biggest piece of premed. If it was just a casual innocent way to get Meredith over to the house he would not have needed to show it to GA. GA IIRC was the bride from the wedding a couple weeks before where JY and Michelle got in a huge fight with one of them locking the other out of their hotel room. She obviously knew that they did not get along and why would JY show her that he was thinking of his wife so thoughtfully?

He just had too many "touches" to the full murder plot. Simplify! Simplify!

[jerry50]

Unless you were guilty, or unless you were warned by your friends that L E is looking for you.

PS:

How is L E going to explain the unidentifiable or foreign print in the splatter?

Kat

If I were guilty I would clam up and get a lawyer like JY.

But if I were innocent I don't care what they or anyone else said, they would have to beat me off with a stick to keep from hounding them with questions about the crime and what I could do to help.

[Cardinal]

If I were guilty I would clam up and get a lawyer like JY.

But if I were innocent I don't care what they or anyone else said, they would have to beat me off with a stick to keep from hounding them with questions about the crime and what I could do to help.

They would have to use that same stick on me. Yes, I know, the spouse is always the prime suspect. Yes, I know, innocent people get convicted because of what they've said to LE.

But I wouldn't care. Honestly. They would HAVE to believe me, because I was innocent. And because I would say and do anything to help them find the murderer. So maybe I'm naive. But if I were innocent, finding who killed the person I loved would outweigh any risk to myself.

JMO

[5swab5]

If I were guilty I would clam up and get a lawyer like JY.

But if I were innocent I don't care what they or anyone else said, they would have to beat me off with a stick to keep from hounding them with questions about the crime and what I could do to help.

So would the vast majority of the population of the planet. Seems to be an overabundance of people on message boards, who would do NOTHING except hire a lawyer and swallow their tongues...if their spouse was murdered. Curious that. MOO

[HenLee]

The only thing that I have read on the timing of the purse is from the SW’s.

“It has been determined that the auction items from the printouts and the computer data search were for auctions that would have ended prior to Mr. Young arriving at the Hampton Inn in Hillsville. Va.Has anyone heard if Jason Young won the bid on the purse?

[Details]

So would the vast majority of the population of the planet. Seems to be an overabundance of people on message boards, who would do NOTHING except hire a lawyer and swallow their tongues...if their spouse was murdered. Curious that. MOONothing would shut me up, that's for sure! I'd be asking them questions, and giving any information I could think of that might lead to a killer.

[Cardinal]

Has anyone heard if Jason Young won the bid on the purse?

Has anyone heard which Michelle the purse was actually intended for?

[HenLee]

Has anyone heard which Michelle the purse was actually intended for?Good question.That still does not answer my question, the answer could be very important.

[JHP]

Okay, but the point is no one could guarantee her safety 100%, could they?

Even and especially after the drug theory in the s/w's..........

I am just glad no one was that worried about her to not take any
extra precautionary steps until years and years later.

:rolleyes:

Kat

So, you think Meredith and Linda were not worried between the time of the murder and when they went for custody? REALLY?

So they just woke up one morning, called an attorney and skipped into court that afternoon?

I imagine they were speaking with LE about Cassidys welfare right away.

JMO

[Cardinal]

Good question.That still does not answer my question, the answer could be very important.

The answer to my question could be very important, too. If Michelle found the printout that night.

[achristie]

Nothing would shut me up, that's for sure! I'd be asking them questions, and giving any information I could think of that might lead to a killer.

And painful as it would be, I'd go through the house with LE if asked. And I'm a wimpy girl.:biggrin:

MOO

[frankdrack]

Has anyone heard which Michelle the purse was actually intended for?

I guess the logical question is if there really was an intention of purchasing a purse?

If the answer is yes, then I assume that it was intended for his wife. That assumption is based on JY actually showing the eBay listing to GA friend as has been discussed on the board.

[enigma™]

The bigger question, in my mind, is did he even bid on that purse, or was the print-out just for show and tell?

[frankdrack]

And painful as it would be, I'd go through the house with LE if asked. And I'm a wimpy girl.:biggrin:

MOO

It's that Catholic upbringing…

[HenLee]

The answer to my question could be very important, too. If Michelle found the printout that night.Why didn't you just state you did not know if he won the bid or not. Why would it be a big deal if Michelle did find it? I am sure she would be happy her husband was taking the time to buy her a gift even if it was a late. Maybe at the time of their anniversary they did NOT have the money to purchase a gift. Has happened to other's I am sure.
You know the saying, better late then never.
So now, if Michelle found the print out that night why do you think it would be important???

[HenLee]

I guess the logical question is if there really was an intention of purchasing a purse?

If the answer is yes, then I assume that it was intended for his wife. That assumption is based on JY actually showing the eBay listing to GA friend as has been discussed on the board.If he won the bid he would want to know and remove the print out to keep it a surprise.

[frankdrack]

The bigger question, in my mind, is did he even bid on that purse, or was the print-out just for show and tell?

IMO, LE’s wording in the SW’s concerning the purse has always been strange. They never mentioned if he placed a bid just that the listing was over before he arrived at the hotel.

[Cardinal]

Why didn't you just state you did not know if he won the bid or not. Why would it be a big deal if Michelle did find it? I am sure she would be happy her husband was taking the time to buy her a gift even if it was a late. Maybe at the time of their anniversary they did NOT have the money to purchase a gift. Has happened to other's I am sure.
You know the saying, better late then never.
So now, if Michelle found the print out that night why do you think it would be important???

Fine. I don't know if he won the bid or if he EVEN bid on it.

Why would it be a big deal if Michelle found the printout? Maybe she already had a purse exactly like the one in the printout, and would KNOW it wasn't for her. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if Jason planned to get a purse just like MY's for MM. MM seemed to want everything ELSE MY had.

And if MY found the printout and knew the purse wasn't for her....oooh, imagine THAT phone call.

[achristie]

It's that Catholic upbringing…

Ain't that the truth. You've got a good memory. :blushing:
Couple that with peasant stock and I'd be tearing through there like a bull in a china shop.:biggrin:
Hey, at least I'm honest.

MOO Aggie

[JHP]

Why didn't you just state you did not know if he won the bid or not. Why would it be a big deal if Michelle did find it? I am sure she would be happy her husband was taking the time to buy her a gift even if it was a late. Maybe at the time of their anniversary they did NOT have the money to purchase a gift. Has happened to other's I am sure.
You know the saying, better late then never.
So now, if Michelle found the print out that night why do you think it would be important???

Well, If Michelle Young disliked Coach purses (I don't like Coach myself), But MM was a huge fan, it might have been the last straw for Michelle Young if she had suspected Jasons infidelity.

JMO

[Cardinal]

Well, If Michelle Young disliked Coach purses (I don't like Coach myself), But MM was a huge fan, it might have been the last straw for Michelle Young if she had suspected Jasons infidelity.

JMO

Or that too.

[achristie]

Why didn't you just state you did not know if he won the bid or not. Why would it be a big deal if Michelle did find it? I am sure she would be happy her husband was taking the time to buy her a gift even if it was a late. Maybe at the time of their anniversary they did NOT have the money to purchase a gift. Has happened to other's I am sure.
You know the saying, better late then never.
So now, if Michelle found the print out that night why do you think it would be important???

Good point. Why did he think it was a big deal if she saw it? Seems rather lame to me, as well.IMO.

[frankdrack]

If he won the bid he would want to know and remove the print out to keep it a surprise.

Assuming that the whole purse thing was legitimate (I know huge assumption) wouldn’t he also want to hide the listing from MY if he lost the item?

Ladies, which would be worse? Finding the listing of an auction that you husband purchased for you, or finding the listing of an auction that you husband didn’t purchase for you?

[HenLee]

And painful as it would be, I'd go through the house with LE if asked. And I'm a wimpy girl.:biggrin:

MOO
I am surprised LE ask him to come to the home for a walk through and possibly leave evidence. How would LE explain to a jury the evidence collected was not from his walk through? The defense always attacks the collection of evidence and if finger prints were found on any piece of important evidence or DNA the defense could claim it was when he did the walk through. That never did make sense to me.

[Cardinal]

Assuming that the whole purse thing was legitimate (I know huge assumption) wouldn’t he also want to hide the listing from MY if he lost the item?

Ladies, which would be worse? Finding the listing of an auction that you husband purchased for you, or finding the listing of an auction that you husband didn’t purchase for you?

None of the above. Finding a listing of an auction for a purse I either already had or finding a listing for a purse my husband knew I didn't like but my "best friend" did......... that would be worse.

[JHP]

Or that too.

Hi Cardinal, one of the things I find so sad about this case is it it was Michelles so-called friend that was involved.

JMO

[Details]

I am surprised LE ask him to come to the home for a walk through and possibly leave evidence. How would LE explain to a jury the evidence collected was not from his walk through? The defense always attacks the collection of evidence and if finger prints were found on any piece of important evidence or DNA the defense could claim it was when he did the walk through. That never did make sense to me.It would be after they processed the crime scene. And it is his home. So his fingerprints and DNA on non-crime scene evidence would be entirely irrelevant.

[frankdrack]

None of the above. Finding a listing of an auction for a purse I either already had or finding a listing for a purse my husband knew I didn't like but my "best friend" did......... that would be worse.

Gift cards in the future for you.

[HenLee]

Good point. Why did he think it was a big deal if she saw it? Seems rather lame to me, as well.IMO.
Unless he won the bid then it would make sense he didn't want Michelle to see it.

[Cardinal]

Gift cards in the future for you.

ROTFL You've talked to my hubby????!!!