Jason Young Arrested Dec 18 - 20

[Jester]

Thankfully there has been an arrest for the murder of pregnant wife Michelle Young. Who would have figured ... the husband was arrested.

It turns out he was more or less unemployed, had a bad temper, liked to mess around, wasn't entirely honest, and couldn't stop talking to his girlfriend and his mom only a few hours after he murdered his wife ... 28 times with mom + the numerous calls with the girlfriend. Apparently he told the girlfriend she was worth it ... 'bad life', something like that. She must be quite some lady. Seems she was a sorority sister of Michelle, but that was only one of the mistresses. From looking at dates, it actually looks like Jason was messing with the child he met at camp, then a woman, while his wife was visiting mom, and then he scooted off to LV with mom and one of his sisters.

I may have some details wrong, but the picture is clear.

[dkny]

When JY is convicted I think it would be appropriate to execute him in the AM like 2AM ish. Swabby, we are still zapping people in this state correct ? JMO.

[jammies]

Jester,
Can you clue me in about JY saing MM was worth it? I missed that one!

[frankdrack]

Does anyone know how to change the title of the thread? It should read December 18th, not Jan 18th.

[Jester]

Does anyone know how to change the title of the thread? It should read December 18th, not Jan 18th.

That must have been a computer glitch. There's no way that I skipped Christmas and didn't notice.

I think we'll have to wait for CW to help us out.

[Jester]

Jester,
Can you clue me in about JY saing MM was worth it? I missed that one!

I think it was quoted yesterday by RPD in the search warrants ... at the bottom of page 4 or 5 ... a text from Jason to MM. Let me see if I can find it.

[Jester]

Page 6 of this affidavit

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/10/4508366/20090210114743620.pdf

[jammies]

Page 6 of this affidavit

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/10/4508366/20090210114743620.pdf


TY so much, Jester. Reading now..........

[Kat4Eagles]

Thankfully there has been an arrest for the murder of pregnant wife Michelle Young. Who would have figured ... the husband was arrested.

It turns out he was more or less unemployed, had a bad temper, liked to mess around, wasn't entirely honest, and couldn't stop talking to his girlfriend and his mom only a few hours after he murdered his wife ... 28 times with mom + the numerous calls with the girlfriend. Apparently he told the girlfriend she was worth it ... 'bad life', something like that. She must be quite some lady. Seems she was a sorority sister of Michelle, but that was only one of the mistresses. From looking at dates, it actually looks like Jason was messing with the child he met at camp, then a woman, while his wife was visiting mom, and then he scooted off to LV with mom and one of his sisters.

I may have some details wrong, but the picture is clear.



I am sure you had the best intentions with your summary,Jester, but are you implying that Jason told MM she was worth it, after Michelle died?
That is what it sounds like..

Jason was messing with a child he met at camp?
Are new charges going to be filed with these allegations?

The picture and your review are not clear at all, sorry!!

Kat

[texasgal]

Thank the Living Lord ... I'm just seeing that JY was arrested! It's been a busy week .. with the 14th being my DDs 18th birthday and all .. I'll always remember the day of his arrest now!

Very very very nice....

[jammies]

I had forgotten how MM was trying to get pregnant and hoped it was with JY. How it must have irked them that MY was pregnant.

Makes me sick all over again re-reading the warrants. :cursing:

[janesdeaan]

Hi jammies !

Yea, I know.
With these exchanges, you can almost feel his urgency to 'get rid of' Michelle and Rylan. It is obvious from the timing and number of calls with MM before and after the murder, he was totally obsessed with her.
So much so, it apparently lead to murder.

Wonder how MM is feeling these days ? Guilty that maybe she is a big part of the reason Michelle is dead and Cassidy is motherless ? Or, was she in such envy of Michelle and so sick that she has found a way to clear her conscience ? Oh, forgot she is one of several in this case born without one. My mistake.

[tiny paw-prints]

What clinched it for me was her 'reconnection' with JY December 2007 with >100 text / cell connections. This woman is not right.

I've always kinda wondered, is it possible that MM conceived JY's baby sometime during the month of October?

[annalyzer]

I had forgotten how MM was trying to get pregnant and hoped it was with JY. How it must have irked them that MY was pregnant.

Makes me sick all over again re-reading the warrants. :cursing:

She should hang her head in shame forever. :sneaky:

[jerzeegirl]

Ok, Finally caught up after not finding out this wonderful news till last night. I actually woke up this morning thinking It was a dream. All I can say is, AMEN.

To RPD: You never gave up, you never even knew Michelle but I know she looks down from up in heaven on her family, friends, LE and you for never giving up on her and her baby boy.

I cannot wait for the trial or plea. This needs to come to an end so her family and friends can have closure.

[annalyzer]

Oh I hope he doesn't plea. I want a trial!

[bsatis]

Oh I hope he doesn't plea. I want a trial!

I would love nothing better than to hear all of the evidence and see JY look petrified during a trial...BUT...pleaing makes it a sure thing. I think they have WAY more than enough evidence, but sometimes technicalities or juror misconduct, etc., can lead to non-desirable outcomes.

I am not sure he will plea. He is both a coward and has an invincibility type of complex. The coward in him would plea. The "can't touch me" wouldn't. Just depends on which Jay is sitting in prison.

[janesdeaan]

Oh I hope he doesn't plea. I want a trial!

I don't think he would admit to this in a million years.

[janesdeaan]

What clinched it for me was her 'reconnection' with JY December 2007 with >100 text / cell connections. This woman is not right.

No, she definitely is a compassionless (is that a word) creep. After Michelle had her miscarriages (?), all her close friends had to know how important having another baby was to her, and this one trying to have her own with JY. Sickening. Oh, BTW...I guessed bottom row, far right !

[jerry50]

Oh I hope he doesn't plea. I want a trial!

If he goes plead guilty he is required to stand up in court and describe the murder that he is pleading guilty to.

[jammies]

What clinched it for me was her 'reconnection' with JY December 2007 with >100 text / cell connections. This woman is not right.

Pity her poor children.

[Pomme]

Pity her poor children.

I pity her husband for having to hear/read about/know about her testimony once this goes to trial. All the texts - the talks about getting pregnant - what a nightmare for him. :thumbdown:

Ladies - you don't cheat, and you really don't cheat with your dear friends' husbands!!:angry:

[jammies]

I pity her husband for having to hear/read about/know about her testimony once this goes to trial. All the texts - the talks about getting pregnant - what a nightmare for him. :thumbdown:

Ladies - you don't cheat, and you really don't cheat with your dear friends' husbands!!:angry:


Aren't they still together?

[Pomme]

:confused:

I think Jerry is referring to allocution, RPD, generally required when taking a plea deal imo.

[annalyzer]

I pity her husband for having to hear/read about/know about her testimony once this goes to trial. All the texts - the talks about getting pregnant - what a nightmare for him. :thumbdown:



And she'll have to get up there and tesitfy. :sneaky:

How much you wanna bet she wears a cross around her neck for court. :glare:

[truthserum]

I am so tired of people throwing other "alleged" women under the bus. There is zero evidance that he had had an affair with anyone other than MM, but there is a ton of speculation. Jason loved attention and loved to be around women. Does he have the propensity to cheat? Yes. Still, that does not mean every woman is going to cheat with him. Labeling his friends as lovers is a cheap shot to the women who trusted Jason as a good person. He duped a lot of people, people who thought he could have never murdered his wife. It is not a crime to believe a friend is good.

[frankdrack]

I am so tired of people throwing other "alleged" women under the bus. There is zero evidance that he had had an affair with anyone other than MM, but there is a ton of speculation. Jason loved attention and loved to be around women. Does he have the propensity to cheat? Yes. Still, that does not mean every woman is going to cheat with him. Labeling his friends as lovers is a cheap shot to the women who trusted Jason as a good person. He duped a lot of people, people who thought he could have never murdered his wife. It is not a crime to believe a friend is good.

Did I miss something?

[truthserum]

I am talking about the "camp" relationship.

[Jester]

I am sure you had the best intentions with your summary,Jester, but are you implying that Jason told MM she was worth it, after Michelle died?
That is what it sounds like..

Jason was messing with a child he met at camp?
Are new charges going to be filed with these allegations?

The picture and your review are not clear at all, sorry!!

Kat

One of Jason's adulterous flings was with a woman whom he first met while he was a camp counselor and she was a child.

Jason sent a text message to Michelle Money the morning after the murder saying "I know there is pain in my future, but you are so worth it." The text starts on the bottom of page 5 and continues on page 6 of the affidavit I linked above.

[Jester]

I am so tired of people throwing other "alleged" women under the bus. There is zero evidance that he had had an affair with anyone other than MM, but there is a ton of speculation. Jason loved attention and loved to be around women. Does he have the propensity to cheat? Yes. Still, that does not mean every woman is going to cheat with him. Labeling his friends as lovers is a cheap shot to the women who trusted Jason as a good person. He duped a lot of people, people who thought he could have never murdered his wife. It is not a crime to believe a friend is good.

Are you talking about the woman that stayed with Jason, alone, for days, in the family home while Michelle and Cassidy were out of town? I guess the trial will clarify whether they were sitting around reminiscing about old times when Jason was the camp counselor and she was a child, or whether they were doing something more adult-like. Once this woman realized that she was in a married man's home, if everything was on the up and up, why didn't she leave? Certainly she realized how it would look if she was alone with a married man for days in the family home.

[truthserum]

This woman was not "alone" with Mr. Young the entire time, MY was her friend as well, and spent time with her before traveling to an already planned trip to NY. Are you saying old friends cannot be alone together without having a sexual relationship! Please!

[truthserum]

One of Jason's adulterous flings was with a woman whom he first met while he was a camp counselor and she was a child.

Jason sent a text message to Michelle Money the morning after the murder saying "I know there is pain in my future, but you are so worth it." The text starts on the bottom of page 5 and continues on page 6 of the affidavit I linked above.


The is zero proof of a fling. I think it makes Jason more of a monster to believe he was screwing around with more than just MM and it is easy to go there, like a snowball rolling down the hill, but there is no way CAS was having an affair with Mr. Young. She was in town visiting friends period. Many people were aware of her staying at the Youngs. It was no secret. There was no secret there to be had.

[truthserum]

Are you talking about the woman that stayed with Jason, alone, for days, in the family home while Michelle and Cassidy were out of town? I guess the trial will clarify whether they were sitting around reminiscing about old times when Jason was the camp counselor and she was a child, or whether they were doing something more adult-like. Once this woman realized that she was in a married man's home, if everything was on the up and up, why didn't she leave? Certainly she realized how it would look if she was alone with a married man for days in the family home.


I think the trial would clarify it if it was any importance. The only reason CAS would be called to trial is for an attempt to show, by the defense I might add, that all seemed well between MY & JY prior to the murder. Because JY does not have a private attorney, I do not think they will fork up the $ to fly her across country to testify. The state seems to have a strong case based on factual information, not alleged. Their focus will be on MM. Look, I can see the speculation, given that Jason is a douch, but there is no proof. Do not forget CAS is a person too...what if anything do you know, actually know of her character?

[Cardinal]

The is zero proof of a fling. I think it makes Jason more of a monster to believe he was screwing around with more than just MM and it is easy to go there, like a snowball rolling down the hill, but there is no way CAS was having an affair with Mr. Young. She was in town visiting friends period. Many people were aware of her staying at the Youngs. It was no secret. There was no secret there to be had.

"More of a monster"? I didn't realize there were degrees of monster.

The FACT that Jason was having an affair with his wife's "good" friend/sorority sister/attendant in their wedding is quite enough monster for me.

JMO

[truthserum]

Ok, fair enough.
We do know Michelle was there 'some of the time'.
As you say, she left for NY, leaving the 2 alone for several days.
IMO, a college canoe guide working at a summer camp for young pre-teen girls is not how you develop friendships to rekindle 13 years later.


Where are you getting that the relationship suddenly rekindled? They had an ongoing friendship for 13 years.

[truthserum]

IMO, multiple affairs by Young does not help the state's case.
They need to focus on Ms Money and Ms Money only.
That fact will end up being huge when the motive evidence is introduced.


I totally agree.

[truthserum]

"More of a monster"? I didn't realize there were degrees of monster.

The FACT that Jason was having an affair with his wife's "good" friend/sorority sister/attendant in their wedding is quite enough monster for me.

JMO

Wow, rush to judgement! The fact that he was having an affair with MM makes you believe he and CAS were too? That's weak at best.

[Cardinal]

I think he/she meant 'sleeze ball' :thumbup:

I was thinking "pond scum", but "sleaze ball" works too.

But wasn't there a ski trip to visit CAS after Michelle's death? I seem to recall photos.

I'm not ready to give her a pass.

JMO

[truthserum]

I never said 'relationship' :wink:

I apoligize, I commend you for recognizing it was a friendship. All I'm saying is that there is no reason to think the friendship ever ended and then began again.

[enigma™]

The is zero proof of a fling. I think it makes Jason more of a monster to believe he was screwing around with more than just MM and it is easy to go there, like a snowball rolling down the hill, but there is no way CAS was having an affair with Mr. Young. She was in town visiting friends period. Many people were aware of her staying at the Youngs. It was no secret. There was no secret there to be had.

Bludgeoning his pregnant wife to death does not make him monster enough? (yes, I know he has not been convicted - YET). His affairs, alleged or otherwise, are just icing on his cake of wrongdoing toward his family. Please offer a link to CAS not being involved with the SLAYER, otherwise, allow others to form their own opinions. I do hope you do not know these people personally, it just adds more to the list of people Jason Lynn Young has affected in a negative way. MUO

[truthserum]

I was thinking "pond scum", but "sleaze ball" works too.

But wasn't there a ski trip to visit CAS after Michelle's death? I seem to recall photos.

I'm not ready to give her a pass.

JMO

I am not sure about the ski trip. I know he was in MT and visited CAS and her husband. Remember this is was at a time the investigation was just underway. The Sowerbys, could have been trying to offer support to a long-time friend. I am willing to bet they would not offer that same support now.

[truthserum]

Bludgeoning his pregnant wife to death does not make him monster enough? (yes, I know he has not been convicted - YET). His affairs, alleged or otherwise, are just icing on his cake of wrongdoing toward his family. Please offer a link to CAS not being involved with the SLAYER, otherwise, allow others to form their own opinions. I do hope you do not know these people personally, it just adds more to the list of people Jason Lynn Young has affected in a negative way. MUO

Please offer factual evidence she has!

[Cardinal]

I am not sure about the ski trip. I know he was in MT and visited CAS and her husband. Remember this is was at a time the investigation was just underway. The Sowerbys, could have been trying to offer support to a long-time friend. I am willing to bet they would not offer that same support now.

Really? Then CAS's husband must be very naive, IMO. Maybe something happened, maybe it didn't. But despite the fact that I don't see it myself, Jason seems to have had a (fatal) attraction for some women. So like I said, I'm not willing to give CAS a pass yet.

JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

One of Jason's adulterous flings was with a woman whom he first met while he was a camp counselor and she was a child.

Jason sent a text message to Michelle Money the morning after the murder saying "I know there is pain in my future, but you are so worth it." The text starts on the bottom of page 5 and continues on page 6 of the affidavit I linked above.


That is so untrue :no:

Your entire post is based on misleading and inaccurate information.

The email exchange you are referring to between Jason and MM was dated 10/28/06.

The first call that Jason made on the morning of 11/3/06 was to MM, but there is no record of what was said..

Read the warrant again, Jester.

And,no one here has ever condoned Jason for any of the behavior we read about in the s/w's, but don't make it worse than it actually was.

No one liked the way he talked to Michelle, or Kim, and even his biggest defenders were disgusted with him.....and, we said so.

The man is in jail on charges on first degree murder, isn't that enough?

Now, I am going to try find the relationship Jason supposedly had a minor.

I never heard this before.

I heard there was an ex g/friend he went to camp with and later saw again years later, is this the "child" you are referring to?

This is not very responsible posting if it was..

I am surprised at you, you are actually someone who I enjoyed reading.

Kat

[truthserum]

Indeed there was.
NC WANTED did uncover a trip to Montana the winter of 2008.
We also know from media reports he was dating CAS's sister, LW from Atlanta. This was a relationship that begun the summer of 2007.
Per NC WANTED, they were introduced by CAS.

LW went to camp with her sister. She already knew JY from their childhood, what I'm interested in knowing how that friendship became a dating realaitonship? They did not live in the same town.

[enigma™]

Please offer factual evidence she has!

I have no "factual evidence", I was not there. I asked you to prove she has not, if you cannot, then just say so. MUO

ETA, I shall call it a night, I do not like the way this board is going at the moment.

[Cardinal]

LW went to camp with her sister. She already knew JY from their childhood, what I'm interested in knowing how that friendship became a dating realaitonship? They did not live in the same town.

Jason and MM didn't live in the same town either.

[truthserum]

Have you spoken to Carroll Anne and Joe ?

No, but I don't think it is a far streatch to believe that there opinion of him may have changed these passing years.

[Cardinal]

Cardinal, in my mind, there is NO DOUBT jason Young tried his A game to get CAS to bed down.
I guess we will never know if he actually succeeded . :thumbup:

I think he did too. Seems to be his MO. And no, we'll probably never know. But with everything that IS known, I'm not of a mind to say definitively that nothing happened.

JMO

[truthserum]

Cardinal, in my mind, there is NO DOUBT jason Young tried his A game to get CAS to bed down.
I guess we will never know if he actually succeeded . :thumbup:

Thanks, that's all I'm looking for. I think rushes to judgement make for weak agruments that can be dismissed all to easily in the court room. The fact the the investigation took so long only proves they took their time to make sure they had an air tight case. I think the case of murder will be proven without a doubt.

[Kat4Eagles]

One of Jason's adulterous flings was with a woman whom he first met while he was a camp counselor and she was a child.

Jason sent a text message to Michelle Money the morning after the murder saying "I know there is pain in my future, but you are so worth it." The text starts on the bottom of page 5 and continues on page 6 of the affidavit I linked above.


:read: again.

That email was dated before the murder..

:rolleyes:

Kat

[truthserum]

OMG, I think I may know you after all. :biggrin:

?????did I miss something?

[Kat4Eagles]

I was thinking "pond scum", but "sleaze ball" works too.

But wasn't there a ski trip to visit CAS after Michelle's death? I seem to recall photos.

I'm not ready to give her a pass.

JMO

Yes. the pics from Montana..

Kat

[Cardinal]

Yes. the pics from Montana..

Kat

Exactly. "Friendly" visit? Or something more? Who's to say?

[Kat4Eagles]

LW went to camp with her sister. She already knew JY from their childhood, what I'm interested in knowing how that friendship became a dating realaitonship? They did not live in the same town.


Gosh, all these women wanting to be with Jason, but, no, it can't be.!!

I mean, how could Michelle love him and marry him,and MM want to leave her husband, and have his baby?

And, a girl from camp was still crushing on him years later, and there were just all these women everywhere he went.......

And, they were all pretty, gosh, Jason must not have been all that bad, was he?

:biggrin:

Kat

[truthserum]

What I wonder is how long was JY planning the crime. How does one go about doing that? It boggles my mind!

[Kat4Eagles]

Exactly. "Friendly" visit? Or something more? Who's to say?


In Montana, they were both of age and consenting adults.

I don't much care what he did there.

The post I am referring to is trying to make it look like Jason had relations with a child.

I guess it would be too much to ask for a link though..

Kat

[truthserum]

[QUOTE=Kat4Eagles;13730133]Gosh, all these women wanting to be with Jason, but, no, it can't be.!!

I mean, how could Michelle love him and marry him,and MM want to leave her husband, and have his baby?

And, a girl from camp was still crushing on him years later, and there were just all these women everywhere he went.......

And, they were all pretty, gosh, Jason must not have been all that bad, was he?

:biggrin:

Hey, you know what's wierd....he seemed hyper sexual with woman, but he did do an internet search for gay bars....maybe he had an identity issue that made him act out even more with others?

[Kat4Eagles]

I think he did too. Seems to be his MO. And no, we'll probably never know. But with everything that IS known, I'm not of a mind to say definitively that nothing happened.

JMO

I am not so sure why this matters now.

We already know Jason cheated on Michelle, we already know most of the things he did showed his lack of character, but do you think the DA will add charges of a serial cheater or a camp couselor gone wild?

:rolleyes:

Kat

[Cardinal]

Gosh, all these women wanting to be with Jason, but, no, it can't be.!!

I mean, how could Michelle love him and marry him,and MM want to leave her husband, and have his baby?

And, a girl from camp was still crushing on him years later, and there were just all these women everywhere he went.......

And, they were all pretty, gosh, Jason must not have been all that bad, was he?

:biggrin:

Kat

Beats me, Kat. Like I said, I don't see it myself.

But I'm not convinced that Michelle ever loved him, in the way I know the word. She met a fun guy and got pregnant, and I think, tried to make the best of it.

As for MM, I think the dynamics there are pretty twisted. There has been a lot posted on this board about jealousy of Michelle - maybe the really jealous one has been overlooked?

As for an adolescent crush, I had those too. Looking back now, I can't imagine what I saw in them. But who's to say CAS matured to that extent?

JMO

[truthserum]

In Montana, they were both of age and consenting adults.

I don't much care what he did there.

The post I am referring to is trying to make it look like Jason had relations with a child.

I guess it would be too much to ask for a link though..

Kat


Kat, I think that he/she did not literally mean a child, but was refurring to him as an employee at the camp chasing after his campers....ewwwww

[Cardinal]

I am not so sure why this matters now.

We already know Jason cheated on Michelle, we already know most of the things he did showed his lack of character, but do you think the DA will end charges of a serial cheater or a camp couselor gone wild?

:rolleyes:

Kat

Last time I checked, serial cheating isn't a felony (although I question that).

But I do think it's part of pattern......especially if Michelle knew about it/suspected it.

[Kat4Eagles]

[QUOTE=Kat4Eagles;13730133]Gosh, all these women wanting to be with Jason, but, no, it can't be.!!

I mean, how could Michelle love him and marry him,and MM want to leave her husband, and have his baby?

And, a girl from camp was still crushing on him years later, and there were just all these women everywhere he went.......

And, they were all pretty, gosh, Jason must not have been all that bad, was he?

:biggrin:

Hey, you know what's wierd....he seemed hyper sexual with woman, but he did do an internet search for gay bars....maybe he had an identity issue that made him act out even more with others?


I am not concerned with what he did on his computer either, who knows what kind of sites pop up when you research one thing, and get something else........

Jason was charged w/murder less than 4 days ago, like that is not the worst thing in the world, but let's get more stuff on him, cause if the murder charge does not stick for some reason, we better have some back~up charges.

:rolleyes:

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Last time I checked, serial cheating isn't a felony (although I question that).

But I do think it's part of pattern......especially if Michelle knew about it/suspected it.

Sorry, Card, it is just that there are some posters who really work hard on checking facts and getting things right, before posting them here.

I don't doubt that Jason was one of the worst husbands in the world, and never ever should have got married to Michelle...

I hate what he and MM did to her behind her back..

But, let's stay with the facts as we know them.

For instance, there is NO email that we know of on the day of the murder .

Do you know how powerful that would be to show his state of mind, AFTER the murder.... WOW.

I would like to see a retraction of that statment.

:not holding my breath:

Kat

[truthserum]

[QUOTE=truthserum;13730141]


I am not concerned with what he did on his computer either, who knows what kind of sites pop up when you research one thing, and get something else........

Jason was charged w/murder less than 4 days ago, like that is not the worst thing in the world, but let's get more stuff on him, cause if the murder charge does not stick for some reason, we better have some back~up charges.

:rolleyes:

Kat

There wil be a story told at court. There is pleanty of evidance to show his character and motive true, but more than that I believe the state will have strong physical evidance as well. There is so much that hasn't been made public, but from what I've reasearched there is a long trail to convict him.

[janesdeaan]

Gosh, all these women wanting to be with Jason, but, no, it can't be.!!

I mean, how could Michelle love him and marry him,and MM want to leave her husband, and have his baby?

And, a girl from camp was still crushing on him years later, and there were just all these women everywhere he went.......

And, they were all pretty, gosh, Jason must not have been all that bad, was he?

:biggrin:

Kat

Hunchbacked, Bad BAD teeth, Nose/Chin like the Bad Witch (WofOZ),
Abusive, Adulterer, Drunken Idiot, Perv, Liar and MURDERER
I can't think of one redeeming quality ! YUCK

[Cardinal]

Sorry, Card, it is just that there are some posters who really work hard on checking facts and getting things right, before posting them here.

I don't doubt that Jason was one of the worst husbands in the world, and never ever should have got married to Michelle...

I hate what he and MM did to her behind her back..

But, let's stay with the facts as we know them.

For instance, there is NO email that we know of on the day of the murder .

Do you know how powerful that would be to show his state of mind, AFTER the murder.... WOW.

I would like to see a retraction of that statment.

:not holding my breath:

Kat

Okay, Kat, you've lost me. A retraction of what statement?

And no, there's no email, that we know of, on the day of the murder. It appears Jason spent most of the day in his car.

[Kat4Eagles]

Beats me, Kat. Like I said, I don't see it myself.

But I'm not convinced that Michelle ever loved him, in the way I know the word. She met a fun guy and got pregnant, and I think, tried to make the best of it.

As for MM, I think the dynamics there are pretty twisted. There has been a lot posted on this board about jealousy of Michelle - maybe the really jealous one has been overlooked?

As for an adolescent crush, I had those too. Looking back now, I can't imagine what I saw in them. But who's to say CAS matured to that extent?

JMO

I think Michelle was crazy about him, I don't see her as the type to get married to someone she did not love, just because she was pregnant.

Michelle , from what we know, was probably the most self-efficent and would have done just as well or better as a single Mom.

She had a great job, was pulling in the big bucks, what did she need Jason for?

And, why the heck would she be having another baby with someone she didn't love or plan to stay with??

All JMO

Kat

[Cardinal]

[QUOTE=Kat4Eagles;13730154]

There wil be a story told at court. There is pleanty of evidance to show his character and motive true, but more than that I believe the state will have strong physical evidance as well. There is so much that hasn't been made public, but from what I've reasearched there is a long trail to convict him.

I didn't realize you'd done research. Care to share?

[Cardinal]

I think Michelle was crazy about him, I don't see her as the type to get married to someone she did not love, just because she was pregnant.

Michelle , from what we know, was probably the most self-efficent and would have done just as well or better as a single Mom.

She had a great job, was pulling in the big bucks, what did she need Jason for?

And, why the heck would she be having another baby with someone she didn't love or plan to stay with??

All JMO

Kat

Kat, I don't know about you, but I know far too many women who've gotten pregnant while in a marriage that they knew wasn't right for them. It happens.

I agree with the rest of your post, though. And I've always believed that Michelle came to same conclusion - what did she need Jason for? And I've always believed that's what blew up.

JMO

[truthserum]

[QUOTE=truthserum;13730172]

I didn't realize you'd done research. Care to share?


Well, after reading and re-reading the warrents, new articals, blogs and meeting JY I'm saying the state's case is strong.

[Kat4Eagles]

Okay, Kat, you've lost me. A retraction of what statement?

And no, there's no email, that we know of, on the day of the murder. It appears Jason spent most of the day in his car.


The statement that the email was from the day of the murder, saying that MM was worth it, making it sound she was the sole reason of the murder.

Yep, Jason did a lot of traveling that day....... but eventually he could not pull off the inevitable of having to stop to get the "news" sometime.


Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

[QUOTE=truthserum;13730172]

I didn't realize you'd done research. Care to share?


That wasn't my post!!

Kat

[janesdeaan]

[QUOTE=truthserum;13730172]

I didn't realize you'd done research. Care to share?

Cardinal, I think that post got screwed up when it was quoted, the post was made by truthserum about researching the case.

[Kat4Eagles]

Hunchbacked, Bad BAD teeth, Nose/Chin like the Bad Witch (WofOZ),
Abusive, Adulterer, Drunken Idiot, Perv, Liar and MURDERER
I can't think of one redeeming quality ! YUCK

Okay, then maybe you can explain what the attraction was for Michelle, his wife, and Michelle, his soulmate.

:confused:

Kat

[truthserum]

[QUOTE=Cardinal;13730182]

Cardinal, I think that post got screwed up when it was quoted, the post was made by truthserum about researching the case.

Thanks janes for clearing that up. That message was posted to me about my comment on reasearching the case.

[janesdeaan]

Okay, then maybe you can explain what the attraction was for Michelle, his wife, and Michelle, his soulmate.

:confused:

Kat

Sorry ! No way can I explain or comprehend that one. Not one redeeming quality as I said !

[Kat4Eagles]

[QUOTE=Cardinal;13730182]

Cardinal, I think that post got screwed up when it was quoted, the post was made by truthserum about researching the case.


Thank you.....

I think the quote button messed up.

Kat

[annalyzer]

Gosh, all these women wanting to be with Jason, but, no, it can't be.!!

I mean, how could Michelle love him and marry him,and MM want to leave her husband, and have his baby?

And, a girl from camp was still crushing on him years later, and there were just all these women everywhere he went.......

And, they were all pretty, gosh, Jason must not have been all that bad, was he?

:biggrin:

Kat

Maybe he has big feet. :laugh:

[ann10]

Gosh, all these women wanting to be with Jason, but, no, it can't be.!!

I mean, how could Michelle love him and marry him,and MM want to leave her husband, and have his baby?

And, a girl from camp was still crushing on him years later, and there were just all these women everywhere he went.......

And, they were all pretty, gosh, Jason must not have been all that bad, was he?

:biggrin:

Kat


Lots of desperate women out there.

Thank God this low life is finally behind bars.

[Kat4Eagles]

Sorry ! No way can I explain or comprehend that one. Not one redeeming quality as I said !


Well, it wasn't for money (no pun intended) and it wasn't cause he had

some high powerful job, and it wasn't like he was driving a Lamborgini

<sp> so, what the heck was it?

Had to be something!!

Have you ever looked at pics of Michelle ,(his wife) and really saw how pretty she was?

To me, she is prettier than MM.
Kat

Ps: TO Card,
I know my PM's are filled, can't keep up, please email me instead.

[Kat4Eagles]

Maybe he has big feet. :laugh:


There is not a icon made for this..

:lol:

Kat

[Cardinal]

Cardinal, I think that post got screwed up when it was quoted, the post was made by truthserum about researching the case.

You're right, janesdeaan, thanks. Kat, it looks like the post function has gone hinky again. We have to fix it manually again.

[annalyzer]

You're right, janesdeaan, thanks. Kat, it looks like the post function has gone hinky again. We have to fix it manually again.


It's not the boards fault. It's a poster not correctly quoting a post.

eta: truthserum post #73

[Kat4Eagles]

Lots of desperate women out there.

Thank God this low life is finally behind bars.


Wanna bet we don't see some woman standing by him throughout the trial, if there is one?

Remember Justin Barber?

Kat

[Cardinal]

Maybe he has big feet. :laugh:

LOL Hi, anna. It must be something like that!

[truthserum]

Kat,

When you ask what the attraction was... I agree with you, I think she really loved him. Maybe she saw his faults and did what so many of young loves do, in thinking that she could change him or help him. She stuck by him and loved him and was kind to him. I think she wanted the fairytale and was at the time she started therepy was beining to realize she could not help him to be a better husband, that the one way street she was on wasn't going where she had hoped.

[Cardinal]

Well, it wasn't for money (no pun intended) and it wasn't cause he had

some high powerful job, and it wasn't like he was driving a Lamborgini

<sp> so, what the heck was it?

Had to be something!!

Have you ever looked at pics of Michelle ,(his wife) and really saw how pretty she was?

To me, she is prettier than MM.
Kat

Ps: TO Card,
I know my PM's are filled, can't keep up, please email me instead.

Michelle was entirely more beautiful than MM. And I'm guessing not nearly as susceptible. Hence the problem.


I cleaned up, Kat, and can't find it. Send it to me again, please.

[Kat4Eagles]

Kat, I don't know about you, but I know far too many women who've gotten pregnant while in a marriage that they knew wasn't right for them. It happens.

I agree with the rest of your post, though. And I've always believed that Michelle came to same conclusion - what did she need Jason for? And I've always believed that's what blew up.

JMO

So , why did she stay, and why did she get pregnant again after losing a baby?

Kat

[Cardinal]

Wanna bet we don't see some woman standing by him throughout the trial, if there is one?

Remember Justin Barber?

Kat

I'm not taking that bet.

ETA: Although I do wonder, as someone else suggested (sorry, can't remember who it was) if some pillow talk didn't get him to this point.

[Cardinal]

So , why did she stay, and why did she get pregnant again after losing a baby?

Kat

Because strong, intelligent, capable women don't easily admit they've screwed up?

[Kat4Eagles]

Michelle was entirely more beautiful than MM. And I'm guessing not nearly as susceptible. Hence the problem.


I cleaned up, Kat, and can't find it. Send it to me again, please.


Lol, I got a message saying you sent me one but my PM's are filled.

I know this is not the place for this though!!

Sorry, CW and Board.


Kat

[janesdeaan]

Sorry for O/T but this has made my day ! This guy, Brandon Manai has been found guilty of murdering his wife, by throwing her off a 250 ft. cliff, ALIVE, in Palos Verdes. My oldest daughter worked with this poor woman at Bally's Total Fitness Corporate Offices right up until she was killed. It's been a long time coming, justice for Julie Rosas, finally. :rose:

http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_14019825

[Kat4Eagles]

Because strong, intelligent, capable women don't easily admit they've screwed up?


I would think a stong, intelligent capable woman would be headed straight for the door.

And, think of some of the other stuff in the s/w's that suggested she may have thought he was cheating earlier.

If we could only turn back time, huh?

Kat

[Cardinal]

Do you actually think she 'tried' to get pregnant the very next cycle ?
Sex is sex is sex is sex.
None of us have no idea how much wine she drank that night.

The Male Perspective. LOL But you could be right.

[ann10]

Wanna bet we don't see some woman standing by him throughout the trial, if there is one?

Remember Justin Barber?

Kat

Of course. Mommy will be there everyday defending her son.

Why did she get pregnant a second time with such a loser? Again, even the most successful and beautiful women can be stupid and desperate when it comes to their personal lives.

Can't say I understand it, but I do know that I've seen it more than once.

[Kat4Eagles]

Sorry for O/T but this has made my day ! This guy, Brandon Manai has been found guilty of murdering his wife, by throwing her off a 250 ft. cliff, ALIVE, in Palos Verdes. My oldest daughter worked with this poor woman at Bally's Total Fitness Corporate Offices right up until she was killed. It's been a long time coming, justice for Julie Rosas, finally. :rose:

http://www.newseum.org/todaysfrontpages/pop_up.asp?fpVname=CA_DB&ref_pge=map&tfp_map=USA


JD, what year was this?

Kat

[Cardinal]

Sorry for O/T but this has made my day ! This guy, Brandon Manai has been found guilty of murdering his wife, by throwing her off a 250 ft. cliff, ALIVE, in Palos Verdes. My oldest daughter worked with this poor woman at Bally's Total Fitness Corporate Offices right up until she was killed. It's been a long time coming, justice for Julie Rosas, finally. :rose:

http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_14019825

It just never ends, does it? Breaks my heart.

Sorry for the O/T too, CW. But it all seem part of a horrendous pattern.

[Kat4Eagles]

Of course. Mommy will be there everyday defending her son.

Why did she get pregnant a second time with such a loser? Again, even the most successful and beautiful women can be stupid and desperate when it comes to their personal lives.

Can't say I understand it, but I do know that I've seen it more than once.


I don't know how Pat Young will act, but no one could be worse, IMO, than Carruth's Mom, Theodry..

Jackie P runs a close second.

Kat

[janesdeaan]

JD, what year was this?

Kat

July 2005 !

[enigma™]

I think Michelle was crazy about him, I don't see her as the type to get married to someone she did not love, just because she was pregnant.

Michelle , from what we know, was probably the most self-efficent and would have done just as well or better as a single Mom.

She had a great job, was pulling in the big bucks, what did she need Jason for?

And, why the heck would she be having another baby with someone she didn't love or plan to stay with??

All JMO

Kat

I am glad you added "JMO", because what you think and what is reality are probably two different things. What will you think if you find out that Michelle went to her therapist to get guidance on the best way to back out of her marriage? What will you think if you find out Michelle knew Jason Lynn Young cheated on her with her best friend? What will you think if you find out about abuse? What would you think if you found out she was expectant, not because she wanted to have marital relations, but was forced to have them?

These are all rhetorical questions. I truly do not care what you think. I shall now put you on ignore. MUO

[Kat4Eagles]

July 2005 !

Did you put it in Breaking News?
I am sure other people know of the case.
I am glad you are happy.
The elation of an conviction can do that.

Kat

Now, back on topic before we all get a timeout.
:)

[Kat4Eagles]

I am glad you added "JMO", because what you think and what is reality are probably two different things. What will you think if you find out that Michelle went to her therapist to get guidance on the best way to back out of her marriage? What will you think if you find out Michelle knew Jason Lynn Young cheated on her with her best friend? What will you think if you find out about abuse? What would you think if you found out she was expectant, not because she wanted to have marital relations, but was forced to have them?

These are all rhetorical questions. I truly do not care what you think. I shall now put you on ignore. MUO


And, we were all getting along so good too and having a great discussion..

So, now Michelle was forced to have relations with Jason?
Wow, you guys just keep hitting them out of the ballpark.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I should wait for the legal eagles to show up , but I asked this yesterday, and didn't see an answer?

If the PI or defense is holding something that helps Jason , could they use it now, or do they have to wait until trial?

In other words, when do they have to turn it over to the state and Prosecution..??

The same time the Prosecution hands over their discovery?

TIA

Kat

[enigma™]

And, we were all getting along so good too and having a great discussion..

So, now Michelle was forced to have relations with Jason?
Wow, you guys just keep hitting them out of the ballpark.

Kat

I NEVER said Michelle was forced to have anything. This is why I am putting you on ignore. I posed some scenarios, of which you refuse to accept as possibilities. NOW you are on ignore.

Also stated MUO, and MUO again, and just for CW, MUO. I was not disrupting any "great discussion", just because "you" were the - forget it. I refuse to be drawn in again. MUO. MUO. MUO.

[jerry50]

And, we were all getting along so good too and having a great discussion..

So, now Michelle was forced to have relations with Jason?
Wow, you guys just keep hitting them out of the ballpark.

Kat

Don't forget that she had just lost a baby and her hormones were all screwed up. With that coupled with the emotional loss even JY might have looked good.

[ann10]

I should wait for the legal eagles to show up , but I asked this yesterday, and didn't see an answer?

If the PI or defense is holding something that helps Jason , could they use it now, or do they have to wait until trial?

In other words, when do they have to turn it over to the state and Prosecution..??

The same time the Prosecution hands over their discovery?

TIA

Kat


Help him? Well, I highly doubt that there is such a thing, but yes, they do have the same obligation as the prosecution. If they have something that would help his case, it would be in his best interest for that to be quickly revealed.

The time can vary from state to state but is usually something like 'X amount of days before trial'.

[frankdrack]

I should wait for the legal eagles to show up , but I asked this yesterday, and didn't see an answer?

If the PI or defense is holding something that helps Jason , could they use it now, or do they have to wait until trial?

In other words, when do they have to turn it over to the state and Prosecution..??

The same time the Prosecution hands over their discovery?

TIA

Kat

I am not an attorney but in my view NC has limited reciprocal discovery. Any documents that the defense are planning on using at trial have to be turned over to the State.

Section 4.9 of below document:

http://www.ncids.org/Def%20Manual%20Info/Defender_Manual/DefManChpt04.pdf

[Kat4Eagles]

Don't forget that she had just lost a baby and her hormones were all screwed up. With that coupled with the emotional loss even JY might have looked good.


But, she still got pregnant with the second baby.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Help him? Well, I highly doubt that there is such a thing, but yes, they do have the same obligation as the prosecution. If they have something that would help his case, it would be in his best interest for that to be quickly revealed.

The time can vary from state to state but is usually something like 'X amount of days before trial'.

Thank you.
I get the idea of a mystery witness showing up to solidify the alibi.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I am not an attorney but in my view NC has limited reciprocal discovery. Any documents that the defense are planning on using at trial have to be turned over to the State.

Section 4.9 of below document:

http://www.ncids.org/Def%20Manual%20Info/Defender_Manual/DefManChpt04.pdf

Thank you, too.
So, in other words, pretty much, no smoking guns in either holsters.

Kat

Hey, Frank,
I wonder if there will be any hostile witnesses called?

[Tia]

I should wait for the legal eagles to show up , but I asked this yesterday, and didn't see an answer?

If the PI or defense is holding something that helps Jason , could they use it now, or do they have to wait until trial?

In other words, when do they have to turn it over to the state and Prosecution..??

The same time the Prosecution hands over their discovery?

TIA

Kat

What legal eagles?

TIA

[Jester]

I think the trial would clarify it if it was any importance. The only reason CAS would be called to trial is for an attempt to show, by the defense I might add, that all seemed well between MY & JY prior to the murder. Because JY does not have a private attorney, I do not think they will fork up the $ to fly her across country to testify. The state seems to have a strong case based on factual information, not alleged. Their focus will be on MM. Look, I can see the speculation, given that Jason is a douch, but there is no proof. Do not forget CAS is a person too...what if anything do you know, actually know of her character?

This may come as a surprise to you, but although the majority assumed that Jason and MM were having a romantic relationship early on, a few argued that it was not true; that there was no proof. It wasn't until the release of search warrants, containing text messages, that the debate finally ended.

We can debate the same with CAS. It's quite possible that Jason contacted her years later because she was nothing more than a friend. It's also possible that her name will come up during trial as one more woman that Jason had a fling with during the marriage. I'm willing to wait and see.

[ann10]

If Jason Young was smart he would plead and accept his inevitable fate now rather than later.

No bail. Bad sign.

I remember posting here early on in the case and finally getting disgusted with his rabid, blind supporters. That and the fact that Jason is so disgusting to me that I feel a sense of association with him just from posting here.

Strange, I know. I get the same feeling from the Anthony case. Just such complete trash that I have to look away.

[Details]

I have no "factual evidence", I was not there. I asked you to prove she has not, if you cannot, then just say so. MUO

ETA, I shall call it a night, I do not like the way this board is going at the moment.Proving a negative is NOT POSSIBLE. If I say that George Washington once ate a kitten - then challenge you to prove it is not true - you cannot. There is no way to prove a relationship did NOT happen. And the onus is on the person who is asserting that it did.

Without proof that it did happen - and you say you have none, it's mere speculation - and speculation that may hurt an entirely innocent person! Imagine you are the one accused of this for just a minute - is that really right, that you are told you can only regain your reputation by proving something you can never ever prove?

[jerry50]

But, she still got pregnant with the second baby.

Kat

I'd probably have to blame the wine with that one.

[Details]

Gosh, all these women wanting to be with Jason, but, no, it can't be.!!

I mean, how could Michelle love him and marry him,and MM want to leave her husband, and have his baby?

And, a girl from camp was still crushing on him years later, and there were just all these women everywhere he went.......

And, they were all pretty, gosh, Jason must not have been all that bad, was he?

:biggrin:

KatAmazing what a manipulator can do. I know of one who is fat, balding, unattractive, lazy, out of work - and he somehow manages to get attractive and intelligent women to fall for him enough to support and marry him! One of those is the friend I've spoken of before.

It doesn't mean Jason is not all that bad - it just means he knew how to pull some strings.

[Kat4Eagles]

I'd probably have to blame the wine with that one.


Wine ??,the reason for all 3 pregnancies?

Nahhhhh, not the Michelle we have heard about, the take charge, the planner, organizer, career woman, super Mom and wife.

Nope, she loved Jason and I am sticking to it.

JMO

Kat

[Jester]

:read: again.

That email was dated before the murder..

:rolleyes:

Kat

Thanks, I'll reread the warrant carefully. Obviously, I skimmed and made assumptions.

[frankdrack]

Thank you, too.
So, in other words, pretty much, no smoking guns in either holsters.

Kat

Hey, Frank,
I wonder if there will be any hostile witnesses called?
I imagine that MM would not be happy about being called to testify. Maybe she could do what Roger Skaggs girlfriend did during his trial and disappear.

[jerry50]

Thank you.
I get the idea of a mystery witness showing up to solidify the alibi.

Kat

I don't think the DA would have arrested JY unless they could prove BARD that he left the hotel. I think too that if a mystery witness showed up know that they would be looked upon with skeptism for not coming foward sooner.
With the arrest I think the DA can prove he left the room and they can place him in the room at the time of the murder.
I think that the therapist will reveal the motive and LE has enough evidence for means and opportunity.

[frankdrack]

So the public defenders will get access to the case files.....heard there were 6 banker boxes full.:drool:
Wonder when they will find the time to sit down and review ?
They juggle 200 cases per lawyer, at any one time.

There is no way that they will have that large of a case load with a potential death penalty case.

I bet that right now they are putting together a wish list of logistical needs for the judge to review & rule on. They will get additional support staff. & budget.

[Kat4Eagles]

Thanks, I'll reread the warrant carefully. Obviously, I skimmed and made assumptions.


It's okay, it is just that had their been an email the day OF or AFTER the murder in the s/w, wow.

I don't think many of us would have missed that detail.

Then we would have to figure out when he got computer time and where he had access to use one!!

Kat

[Details]

Thank you.....

I think the quote button messed up.

KatThe quote button isn't messed up - some posts are.

Something to maybe help fix it, as this happens often, and I've been seeing it a lot lately

It's all about the quote tags. In every quoted post, there's an opening quote tag and a closing one. If the closing one gets messed up, you start getting two opening quote tags, and only one closing tag. That's what causes this. To fix it, remove the second opening quote tag, which is bold in this example:

(QUOTE=RealQuotedPosterName;12343345262452)
I quite agree
(QUOTE=PosterName;12343345262452)
Here's what I think....

(/QUOTE) - the slash indicates a closing tag.

I've replaced the square brackets with round ones in this example - but what you'll look for will have the square brackets.

This is how the system figures out where to quote text, make it bold, do fonts, everything - it's worth a little time to look at and understand. It always starts with an opening tag, indicating formatting should start there, and a closing tag, indicating the formatting (quote, bold, etc.) should end at that point. When there are more opening than closing tags, they system has trouble.

[frankdrack]

I don't think the DA would have arrested JY unless they could prove BARD that he left the hotel. I think too that if a mystery witness showed up know that they would be looked upon with skeptism for not coming foward sooner.
With the arrest I think the DA can prove he left the room and they can place him in the room at the time of the murder.
I think that the therapist will reveal the motive and LE has enough evidence for means and opportunity.

I am extremely interested in any undisclosed evidence the state has. It would be great to understand the decision process of going to the GJ at this time.

[Kat4Eagles]

I imagine that MM would not be happy about being called to testify. Maybe she could do what Roger Skaggs girlfriend did during his trial and disappear.



Prosecution Witness List:

MM
Friends and Sorority Sisters
Neighbors
Co~Workers
Family
Hampton Inn Clerk, Manager
Cracker Barrel Server

Therapist, can she be called to the stand?

Her doctor?

The News Carrier

Who else?

Kat

[Details]

I should wait for the legal eagles to show up , but I asked this yesterday, and didn't see an answer?

If the PI or defense is holding something that helps Jason , could they use it now, or do they have to wait until trial?

In other words, when do they have to turn it over to the state and Prosecution..??

The same time the Prosecution hands over their discovery?

TIA

KatThey can of course use anything they have right now, or any number of years ago. The DA doesn't want to go to trial only to lose - if they had actual exculpatory evidence, it'd be an excellent thing to hand over immediately. Unless, of course, they think the DA can find out that the evidence is false given a little time, in which case it'd be a dirty, but not uncommon trick to hold it back until the last possible minute.

[Kat4Eagles]

I am extremely interested in any undisclosed evidence the state has. It would be great to understand the decision process of going to the GJ at this time.


IMO, they got what it is listed in the s/w's/ nothing more, nothing less.

Had there been more, this would have been over long ago.

I guess something could come up, but I doubt it after all this time.


Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

The quote button isn't messed up - some posts are.

Something to maybe help fix it, as this happens often, and I've been seeing it a lot lately

It's all about the quote tags. In every quoted post, there's an opening quote tag and a closing one. If the closing one gets messed up, you start getting two opening quote tags, and only one closing tag. That's what causes this. To fix it, remove the second opening quote tag, which is bold in this example:



I've replaced the square brackets with round ones in this example - but what you'll look for will have the square brackets.

This is how the system figures out where to quote text, make it bold, do fonts, everything - it's worth a little time to look at and understand. It always starts with an opening tag, indicating formatting should start there, and a closing tag, indicating the formatting (quote, bold, etc.) should end at that point. When there are more opening than closing tags, they system has trouble.


Thank you for this.
:)
Kat

[frankdrack]

I agree if it ends up a DP case.
Still, the budget is limited.
I guess you heard there is a major recession and the money in state government is tight :biggrin:

Rattling the DP saber changes everything.

Higher courts don’t take in account the state of the economy when reviewing if defendant received a fair trial…

[Jester]

But, she still got pregnant with the second baby.

Kat

How about this scenario. As a premise, we'll assume the relationship was abusive (testimony of friends, etc), and that abusive relationships include a honeymoon/abuse cycle.

If the car accident was intentional, and the loss was the unborn child and not Michelle, then Jason would move into the honeymoon phase. The abuse cycle included going off the road, the honeymoon cycle included making it up to Michelle. It's unlikely that Michelle thought the accident was intentional, so she would have assumed both she and Jason mourned the loss of the unborn child and wanted to try again.

[frankdrack]

Prosecution Witness List:

MM
Friends and Sorority Sisters
Neighbors
Co~Workers
Family
Hampton Inn Clerk, Manager
Cracker Barrel Server

Therapist, can she be called to the stand?

Her doctor?

The News Carrier

Who else?

Kat

Lots more all of the LE people about collecting evidence, preserving the scene, chain of custody. Forensic people, detective who did interviews, a whole bunch more!

[Details]

Yea, but the NC statutes still pay a private lawyer a measly $85 / hr.Can I get paid $85 an hour please?

[jerry50]

Wine ??,the reason for all 3 pregnancies?

Nahhhhh, not the Michelle we have heard about, the take charge, the planner, organizer, career woman, super Mom and wife.

Nope, she loved Jason and I am sticking to it.

JMO

Kat

I should have placed a funny face after it.

I agree that Michelle was all of those things. Did she start seeing the therapist after the loss of the baby? If the lake story and the river story are true then JY may have changed dramatically when Michelle found out about the second pregnancy. She did love JY but something also changed with her that caused her to seek out the therapist. She had to share something with a person other than her family and friends because it was too big for her to handle alone and she did not want anyone else to know.

[frankdrack]

Yea, but the NC statutes still pay a private lawyer a measly $85 / hr.

Not getting rich at that rate.

[frankdrack]

Well, for capital murder standards, I am told that is not a fair wage.
Most top-gun private lawyers bill 2 to 3 times this amount.

Most of the attorneys that I work with are well over $400/hour.

[Tia]

Not getting rich at that rate.

No kidding. Thats not right, considering they will be defending someones life.

But, I guess you get what you pay for?

[daniel green]

I should wait for the legal eagles to show up , but I asked this yesterday, and didn't see an answer?

If the PI or defense is holding something that helps Jason , could they use it now, or do they have to wait until trial?

In other words, when do they have to turn it over to the state and Prosecution..??

The same time the Prosecution hands over their discovery?

TIA

Kat

Well, one would think his lawyers would share it with the DA so as not to spend months in jail awaiting trial.

[Kat4Eagles]

Lots more all of the LE people about collecting evidence, preserving the scene, chain of custody. Forensic people, detective who did interviews, a whole bunch more!


Oh, yeah, like all the specialists and experts.

Foot doctor expert testimony

Broken Door Handle on the Garage Expert

Unactivated Alarm Expert

Rock in the Door Specialist

Shoe Comparison Expert

Drug Expert on Medicine Dropper

Security Camera Expert @ Hampton

etc.

Kat

Can and will the therapist be called?

[Kat4Eagles]

Well, one would think his lawyers would share it with the DA so as not to spend months in jail awaiting trial.

Yeah, that's true.
Kat

[frankdrack]

Yeah, that's true.
Kat

Unfortunately our system doesn’t work like that. I don’t think that there is any evidence that he could present to the State that would get the DA to dismiss charges. DNA cases can be different.

[dkny]

Wow.

I hear it would run at least 300 hours of trial prep + 175 hours of trial time.
Not to mention experts and investigators.

$200,000 + to hire a good attorney.
No wonder he took the freebie.


I wonder if anyone is going to stick their neck out to do some pro bono work for a suspected wife and baby killer. I doubt it.. JMO

[Tia]

I wonder if anyone is going to stick their neck out to do some pro bono work for a suspected wife and baby killer. I doubt it.. JMO

Doubtful.

I am surprised we haven't seen a Jason is Innocent site pop up yet.

[BiggerRedDog]

Doubtful.
I am surprised we haven't seen a Jason is Innocent site pop up yet.
Give it time, Tia. :smile:
Here's what the S(Peterson)II crew is up to these days:
http://pwc-consulting.blogspot.com/2009_12_13_archive.html

[Details]

Unfortunately our system doesn’t work like that. I don’t think that there is any evidence that he could present to the State that would get the DA to dismiss charges. DNA cases can be different.Nonsense. The DA would drop charges if there was something exculpatory - they don't want to waste their time on a case they cannot win. Present an alibi that is solid and unassailable, present a solid case against an alternate killer that cannot be denied - he'd be out.

A little piece of evidence that doesn't demolish the DA's case - yeah, that wouldn't matter, but if they had anything solid and real, of course the DA would be running away from the case in a heartbeat. They hate losing cases, they like to have a high win record - which means not filing cases unless they're pretty sure they can win.

[Tia]

Give it time, Tia. :smile:
Here's what the S(Peterson)II crew is up to these days:
http://pwc-consulting.blogspot.com/2009_12_13_archive.html


Ah, Marlene.

She secretly hopes that one of these wife killers will marry her.:scared:

[frankdrack]

Nonsense. The DA would drop charges if there was something exculpatory - they don't want to waste their time on a case they cannot win. Present an alibi that is solid and unassailable, present a solid case against an alternate killer that cannot be denied - he'd be out.

A little piece of evidence that doesn't demolish the DA's case - yeah, that wouldn't matter, but if they had anything solid and real, of course the DA would be running away from the case in a heartbeat. They hate losing cases, they like to have a high win record - which means not filing cases unless they're pretty sure they can win.

I disagree.

Without DNA at this point there is no way DA would dismiss if JY presented alternative killer theory.

What alibi unassailable alibi could he present at this point? That he was asleep in hotel room? Even if he presented witnesses that say that they saw him at hotel at 4:00 AM I believe that DA would go to trial and let the jury decide if they were believable.

[reborn]

Give it time, Tia. :smile:
Here's what the S(Peterson)II crew is up to these days:
http://pwc-consulting.blogspot.com/2009_12_13_archive.html


Reddog when you think about it she is right. Maybe the new age of the Internet is to blame. Maybe we just don't trust any one any more and with good cause. I would bet my parents never locked their doors in their life time. I don't think any one knew where the key was. I don't like this new society we live in but its what it is. I personally never knew a husband or wife that ever killed the other one . Did this kind of thing happen 20 years ago? Are there any cases where the killers are over 40. My personal opinion is that parents have made life to easy for their children. Then when they get in the real world they aren't prepared to cope.

[janesdeaan]

Amazing what a manipulator can do. I know of one who is fat, balding, unattractive, lazy, out of work - and he somehow manages to get attractive and intelligent women to fall for him enough to support and marry him! One of those is the friend I've spoken of before.

It doesn't mean Jason is not all that bad - it just means he knew how to pull some strings.

Here's an excerpt from the SW of 2/09, an e-mail discussion of Jason Young from Alan Fisher to Det. Spivey:

Alan Fisher: "He, he has the personality that -- we're convinced he's a chameleon. He is what you want him to be and he's got multiple personalities and he leads you to believe that that's the person he is. The minute he's out of your presence he's a chameleon to someone else."

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/10/4508366/20090210114743620.pdf

[daniel green]

Nonsense. The DA would drop charges if there was something exculpatory - they don't want to waste their time on a case they cannot win. Present an alibi that is solid and unassailable, present a solid case against an alternate killer that cannot be denied - he'd be out.

snipped.

Indeed so, Details.

[janesdeaan]

I am extremely interested in any undisclosed evidence the state has. It would be great to understand the decision process of going to the GJ at this time.

Correct me if I am wrong, Frank, but the other day weren't you the one saying the evidence wasn't going to hold up in a trial ?

[BiggerRedDog]

Reddog when you think about it she is right. Maybe the new age of the Internet is to blame. Maybe we just don't trust any one any more and with good cause. I would bet my parents never locked their doors in their life time. I don't think any one knew where the key was. I don't like this new society we live in but its what it is. I personally never knew a husband or wife that ever killed the other one . Did this kind of thing happen 20 years ago? Are there any cases where the killers are over 40. My personal opinion is that parents have made life to easy for their children. Then when they get in the real world they aren't prepared to cope.
I trust lots of people and don't lock my doors. The BiggerRedDog is on duty! I still believe there is more good than bad in the world, though sometimes it's hard to think that way. I live in a small community which has more than its share of violent crime, including the murder of my adult cousin a few years ago at the hands of three teenage girls. But spousal or partner murder is relatively uncommon here, and is usually spur-of-the-moment and related to binge drug and alcohol use. The murders of women by husbands who want their cake and eat it too is probably not a new phenomenon, but the internet has made access to information (good, bad or indifferent) much easier for those who are interested. Parenting probably plays a role in the sense of entitlement some of these convicted and alleged murderers seem to have, but that's no excuse for the actions of the ones I've followed.

[Stellagant]

Unfortunately our system doesn’t work like that. I don’t think that there is any evidence that he could present to the State that would get the DA to dismiss charges. DNA cases can be different.

If the DA wants him to talk, he'll have to grant him immunity, imo

[Stellagant]

Nonsense. The DA would drop charges if there was something exculpatory - they don't want to waste their time on a case they cannot win. Present an alibi that is solid and unassailable, present a solid case against an alternate killer that cannot be denied - he'd be out.

A little piece of evidence that doesn't demolish the DA's case - yeah, that wouldn't matter, but if they had anything solid and real, of course the DA would be running away from the case in a heartbeat. They hate losing cases, they like to have a high win record - which means not filing cases unless they're pretty sure they can win.

I disagree. DA's are politicians and they worry more about the public's perception of their office. A jury (comprised of registered voters) decides whether they win at trial. When there is a public outcry for an arrest, a DA would be a fool not to get an indictment and place the suspect in jail whether it be for the suspect's own or the public's "protection."

[Stellagant]

I disagree.

Without DNA at this point there is no way DA would dismiss if JY presented alternative killer theory.

What alibi unassailable alibi could he present at this point? That he was asleep in hotel room? Even if he presented witnesses that say that they saw him at hotel at 4:00 AM I believe that DA would go to trial and let the jury decide if they were believable.

I think it all depends on the one key piece of evidence we haven't heard: the TOD. If it at all conflicts, it will be impossible for the DA to explain why and how he was captured on video at the hotel or by cell phone tower nearby the hotel.

[frankdrack]

Correct me if I am wrong, Frank, but the other day weren't you the one saying the evidence wasn't going to hold up in a trial ?

I never said that. I don't know what all of the evidence is. How could I say that it will not hold up?

I have questioned the strength of specific evidence outlined in the search warrants and pointed out that the standard of Probable Cause for a SW is very different that the standard of Reasonable Doubt in a criminal trial.

[frankdrack]

I think it all depends on the one key piece of evidence we haven't heard: the TOD. If it at all conflicts, it will be impossible for the DA to explain why and how he was captured on video at the hotel or by cell phone tower nearby the hotel.

It will be interesting to see what the state says about TOD. Unless I missed it, I don’t think that an estimated TOD has ever been released.

The state will have to release the body temperature data during discovery.

[frankdrack]

A jury (comprised of registered voters) decides whether they win at trial."

In North Carolina the Master Jury List is comprised of registered voters along with licensed drivers. Either one will get you on the list.

[Leanne Weich]

In North Carolina the Master Jury List is comprised of registered voters along with licensed drivers. Either one will get you on the list.

It's so weird to see it is a requirement to be a registered voter because in Australia it is mandatory to be registered and if you don't vote you will be prosecuted.

[Cardinal]

Another Wake County spousal murder case - Patel has been found guilty, and I thought this was interesting:

"Jeff Cutler, Harish Patel's lawyer, didn't offer any evidence during the trial. But he told jurors to be skeptical of the case prosecutors and police presented, which depended heavily on circumstantial evidence such as phone calls, Internet searches, odometer readings of Patel's car and statements Patel made to Cary police after his wife was reported missing."

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/counties/wake_county/story/248097.html

So the Wake County DA's office has just successfully prosecuted a case largely consisting of CE such as phone calls, internet searches, odometer readings.....

Deja vu?

[frankdrack]

Another Wake County spousal murder case - Patel has been found guilty, and I thought this was interesting:

"Jeff Cutler, Harish Patel's lawyer, didn't offer any evidence during the trial. But he told jurors to be skeptical of the case prosecutors and police presented, which depended heavily on circumstantial evidence such as phone calls, Internet searches, odometer readings of Patel's car and statements Patel made to Cary police after his wife was reported missing."

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/counties/wake_county/story/248097.html

So the Wake County DA's office has just successfully prosecuted a case largely consisting of CE such as phone calls, internet searches, odometer readings.....

Deja vu?

I think that the "statements Patel made to Cary police" were very important in the trial.

Who knows what a jury will think of lots of small pieces of CE without conflicting statements from a defendant. It should be interesting.

[Leanne Weich]

Another Wake County spousal murder case - Patel has been found guilty, and I thought this was interesting:

"Jeff Cutler, Harish Patel's lawyer, didn't offer any evidence during the trial. But he told jurors to be skeptical of the case prosecutors and police presented, which depended heavily on circumstantial evidence such as phone calls, Internet searches, odometer readings of Patel's car and statements Patel made to Cary police after his wife was reported missing."

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/counties/wake_county/story/248097.html



So the Wake County DA's office has just successfully prosecuted a case largely consisting of CE such as phone calls, internet searches, odometer readings.....

Deja vu?

I'm really happy that this murdering SOB got LWOP. I'm sure the news of Patel's conviction and sentence has spread throughout the jail. Bet Jason's not feeling so cocky right now.

[reborn]

I've never been called for wake county jury duty.
Maybe my lucky day will be in about 18 months :thumbsup:


I saw another poster say the other day "now back to the jury pool" If you guys are truthful I don't think you will be allowed on the jury> MOO

[frankdrack]

Reckon the defense will ask if I know anything about the case or have an opinion on his guilt or innocence :scared:

Maybe part of the defense team’s standard voir dire questionnaire will be “did you make an appointment to view the autopsy photos?”

[enigma™]

Maybe part of the defense team’s standard voir dire questionnaire will be “did you make an appointment to view the autopsy photos?”

Wow, what a way to get the board going this morning. :thumbdown:

I, for one, appreciate everything that RPD has done to bring information about this case to anyone who was interested. :thumbup:

[frankdrack]

I, for one, appreciate everything that RPD has done to bring information about this case to anyone who was interested. :thumbup:

Me too! His knowledge concerning the case is the best. He has also been a great contributor to the boards.

[Leanne Weich]

Wow, what a way to get the board going this morning. :thumbdown:

I, for one, appreciate everything that RPD has done to bring information about this case to anyone who was interested. :thumbup:

I do too enigma. There's no doubt about it but RPD sure painted a picture (gruesome though it was) of just what Michelle endured. I read autopsy reports as part of my job in the legal profession for 25 years and, to be honest, needed my uncle - a doctor - to paint the picture for me to realistically envisage injuries etc. I knew Michelle's injuries were really bad just from a reading of the AR but didn't realise quite how horrendous until RPD posted about the pictures. That is why I understood when LE said it wad one of the worst crime scenes they'd ever seen

[enigma™]

I do too enigma. There's no doubt about it but RPD sure painted a picture (gruesome though it was) of just what Michelle endured. I read autopsy reports as part of my job in the legal profession for 25 years and, to be honest, needed my uncle - a doctor - to paint the picture for me to realistically envisage injuries etc. I knew Michelle's injuries were really bad just from a reading of the AR but didn't realise quite how horrendous until RPD posted about the pictures. That is why I understood when LE said it wad one of the worst crime scenes they'd ever seen

It sure was an eye opener for me. Poor Michelle.

[enigma™]

Thanks guys.
Frankly, not sure what 'hobby' I can move to next .
3 Years following this case has finally come to a satisfying end.
The Fisher's have Cassidy and can finally find some peace knowing Michelle's killer is behind bars. That's a very good thing.

There is always Raven Aboroa!

When this comes to trial, RPD, what do you believe will be the most compelling evidence? The jury will probably have nightmares after viewing the autopsy photos.

[Cardinal]

I think that the "statements Patel made to Cary police" were very important in the trial.

Who knows what a jury will think of lots of small pieces of CE without conflicting statements from a defendant. It should be interesting.

Having read ahead, I think lots of small pieces of CE, the transcript of Alan Fisher's interview, and those very crime scene photos will resonate with the jury.

JMO

[frankdrack]

Having read ahead, I think lots of small pieces of CE, the transcript of Alan Fisher's interview, and those very crime scene photos will resonate with the jury.

JMO

What do you find incriminating in the Fisher interview?

[janesdeaan]

What do you find incriminating in the Fisher interview?

I'm not Cardinal, but in case you haven't read up on this, here's a link:

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/10/4508366/20090210114743620.pdf

I'd be interested in hearing what you find to be compelling evidence so far ?

[Cardinal]

What do you find incriminating in the Fisher interview?

In particular, the description of Jason's behavior at his home.

[enigma™]

In particular, the description of Jason's behavior at his home.

It is unfortunate that both Michelle and Alan will have to speak from the grave. He had a great deal of insight regarding the "chameleon".

[Cardinal]

It is unfortunate that both Michelle and Alan will have to speak from the grave. He had a great deal of insight regarding the "chameleon".

I agree, he did. His words paint a very clear picture of the Jason he knew, IMO.

[enigma™]

I agree, he did. His words paint a very clear picture of the Jason he knew, IMO.

I found his description of how Jason avoided the room with Michelle's memorial (for lack of a better word) particularly disturbing. Hopefully some of this information will get into the trial. Alan was interviewed by detectives, it was taped, IIRC, so it will not be hearsay evidence.

[5swab5]

I found his description of how Jason avoided the room with Michelle's memorial (for lack of a better word) particularly disturbing. Hopefully some of this information will get into the trial. Alan was interviewed by detectives, it was taped, IIRC, so it will not be hearsay evidence.

I can't remember, did Alan do a deposition...or do we know? Terminally ill parents have done them in other cases. I sure hope so! Would be invaluable at the sentencing hearing. IMO

[enigma™]

I can't remember, did Alan do a deposition...or do we know? Terminally ill parents have done them in other cases. I sure hope so! Would be invaluable at the sentencing hearing. IMO

I do not believe it was a formal deposition, but, if I am wrong I know I will hear otherwise. I need to re-read some of the information. I do not even recall if he talked to detectives in his home, or if he was in NC, and went to LE to be interviewed. It has been a long three years.

ETA: I did find this link.
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/4507783/
Probably what we are looking for is linked in that article.

[enigma™]

From the linked article, it appears that Alan's comments were from Emails and an affidavit. Here is an excerpt:


In an interview with Detective Richard Spivey, Fisher also said that Jason Young's actions during a visit led him to become "much more suspicious" of Young.

Fisher said that Jason Young never tried to tell him that he was not involved in his wife's death and that he seemed to be on "top of the world. It was like Michelle was a thing of the past."

The affidavit that supported investigators' request for the search warrant states the visit was in March, but it's unclear how long after the slaying.

[frankdrack]

It is unfortunate that both Michelle and Alan will have to speak from the grave. He had a great deal of insight regarding the "chameleon".

Unless I missed something, I don’t think that Mr. Fisher’s interview will be part of the trial. Since he is dead, I don’t believe that the NC rules of evidence will allow it.

Even if it did I think the defense team would love the section where Mr. Fisher says:
“And that he would do that because he knows – he can be very smart boy and he really can be – there’s a side of him that, some sides of him that I found out after the murder that I never knew existed. I mean David told me a long time ago that he’s not the person that you think that he is. Then – David, Detective David, if you’re listening, you’re a hundred percent, hundred fifty percent right.

Detective David says:
“Well, I need to say that to be right. I just wanted you to understand that there’s other sides of the people.”

I view that as a huge win for the defense. It seems pretty clear that Mr. Fisher liked JY, thought of him as carefree, shoo from the hip type of guy. Sometime after the murder LE convinced him that JY is not who he thinks he is.

I believe that this will fit in nicely with any potential Tunnel vision theory that the defense might introduce.

[5swab5]

June Fisher is still alive and well :wink:

Hi RPD, I would also like to Thank You for all your tireless efforts on the behalf of Michelle & Rylan.

I've just been sitting here thinking, especially in light of the Patel guilty verdict...how MANY inmates Jason will see come and go before his March hearing, let alone before he gets his "day in court". He will be getting an education, that's for sure. Hope he's not counting on any "inside" support for the many months to come.

Before this is all said and done, even Cooper will probably be unceremoniously removed from the jail and transported to Central. I cannot WAIT until the day Jason gets voted OUT! :biggrinjester: MOO

[frankdrack]

I'm not Cardinal, but in case you haven't read up on this, here's a link:

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/10/4508366/20090210114743620.pdf

I'd be interested in hearing what you find to be compelling evidence so far ?

I asked the same question on this board the other night.

At this point I have a real hard time with the phone calls on November 3rd. Why didn’t he answer when his MIL called? Why didn’t he call her back? Why so many calls to his mother’s house? That looks really bad to me and I think that it will look really bad to a jury.

[Cardinal]

Unless I missed something, I don’t think that Mr. Fisher’s interview will be part of the trial. Since he is dead, I don’t believe that the NC rules of evidence will allow it.

Even if it did I think the defense team would love the section where Mr. Fisher says:
“And that he would do that because he knows – he can be very smart boy and he really can be – there’s a side of him that, some sides of him that I found out after the murder that I never knew existed. I mean David told me a long time ago that he’s not the person that you think that he is. Then – David, Detective David, if you’re listening, you’re a hundred percent, hundred fifty percent right.

Detective David says:
“Well, I need to say that to be right. I just wanted you to understand that there’s other sides of the people.”

I view that as a huge win for the defense. It seems pretty clear that Mr. Fisher liked JY, thought of him as carefree, shoo from the hip type of guy. Sometime after the murder LE convinced him that JY is not who he thinks he is.

I believe that this will fit in nicely with any potential Tunnel vision theory that the defense might introduce.

I think if Mr. Fisher gave a deposition, it could be allowed in. The defense could object, but if, as you say, they would view it as a huge win, maybe they wouldn't object. Then the jury could decide.

And if the defense is going to raise the tunnel vision theory, will they not need another viable suspect? And who might that be?

[5swab5]

Unless I missed something, I don’t think that Mr. Fisher’s interview will be part of the trial. Since he is dead, I don’t believe that the NC rules of evidence will allow it.

Even if it did I think the defense team would love the section where Mr. Fisher says:
“And that he would do that because he knows – he can be very smart boy and he really can be – there’s a side of him that, some sides of him that I found out after the murder that I never knew existed. I mean David told me a long time ago that he’s not the person that you think that he is. Then – David, Detective David, if you’re listening, you’re a hundred percent, hundred fifty percent right.

Detective David says:
“Well, I need to say that to be right. I just wanted you to understand that there’s other sides of the people.”

I view that as a huge win for the defense. It seems pretty clear that Mr. Fisher liked JY, thought of him as carefree, shoo from the hip type of guy. Sometime after the murder LE convinced him that JY is not who he thinks he is.

I believe that this will fit in nicely with any potential Tunnel vision theory that the defense might introduce.


I disagree, the VERY last thing a Defense Attorney is going to want a jury to hear...is Alan's interview(s). I firmly believe they will fight tooth and nail to keep them out.

I just pray someone had the foresight to arrange a video deposition. MOO

[frankdrack]

From the linked article, it appears that Alan's comments were from Emails and an affidavit. Here is an excerpt:


[/I]

I believe that the SW has information from emails that were exchanged between Mr. Fisher & JY along with a transcript of a telephone conference between Mr. Fisher & investigators from the Wake County Sherriff’s Department.

[Cardinal]

I believe that the SW has information from emails that were exchanged between Mr. Fisher & JY along with a transcript of a telephone conference between Mr. Fisher & investigators from the Wake County Sherriff’s Department.

According to the SW, the DA visited Mr. Fisher at his (Mr. Fisher's) home.

[frankdrack]

I think if Mr. Fisher gave a deposition, it could be allowed in. The defense could object, but if, as you say, they would view it as a huge win, maybe they wouldn't object. Then the jury could decide.

And if the defense is going to raise the tunnel vision theory, will they not need another viable suspect? And who might that be?

The defense does not need to introduce any other viable subject. They need reasonable doubt. The other subject is Anyone But JY.

[enigma™]

Unless I missed something, I don’t think that Mr. Fisher’s interview will be part of the trial. Since he is dead, I don’t believe that the NC rules of evidence will allow it.

Even if it did I think the defense team would love the section where Mr. Fisher says:
“And that he would do that because he knows – he can be very smart boy and he really can be – there’s a side of him that, some sides of him that I found out after the murder that I never knew existed. I mean David told me a long time ago that he’s not the person that you think that he is. Then – David, Detective David, if you’re listening, you’re a hundred percent, hundred fifty percent right.

Detective David says:
“Well, I need to say that to be right. I just wanted you to understand that there’s other sides of the people.”

I view that as a huge win for the defense. It seems pretty clear that Mr. Fisher liked JY, thought of him as carefree, shoo from the hip type of guy. Sometime after the murder LE convinced him that JY is not who he thinks he is.

I believe that this will fit in nicely with any potential Tunnel vision theory that the defense might introduce.

I do understand what you are trying to convey, from a defense point of view, but I also believe you are wrong. It is my prerogative to believe you are wrong. People evolve, their feelings about others evolve, with or without the aid of someone else. It is my feeling that Alan, upon watching Jason Lynn Young in his home, revised his thinking about his son-in-law. Sad day for Alan, that is for sure, to come to the realization that his beautiful daughter was murdered by this beast*.

*my perception of the SLAYER

[Cardinal]

The defense does not need to introduce any other viable subject. They need reasonable doubt. The other subject is Anyone But JY.

The jury will need another viable suspect. After hearing about the woman Michelle was, after hearing about her precious child and the baby on the way, after seeing the crime scene photos and the autopsy report, they will want someone held accountable. If there's no one else it could have been, I think they will give greater weight to the CE. All My Opinion.

[frankdrack]

According to the SW, the DA visited Mr. Fisher at his (Mr. Fisher's) home.

In the transcript Mr. Fisher referenced that someone from the DA’s office came to his home, and that he told JY about the visit, but he is talking with Wake County LE.

In the transcript he says:

“then David, Detective David, if you’re listening, …”

[frankdrack]

The jury will need another viable suspect. After hearing about the woman Michelle was, after hearing about her precious child and the baby on the way, after seeing the crime scene photos and the autopsy report, they will want someone held accountable. If there's no one else it could have been, I think they will give greater weight to the CE. All My Opinion.

One of the great things about tunnel vision. Can’t you hear the defense team saying: “There could be numerous other people capable of the crime that LE never bothered to investigate because the locked on to the poor innocent husband from the beginning. Do you know how many violent criminals there are on parole in the area?”

[Cardinal]

In the transcript Mr. Fisher referenced that someone from the DA’s office came to his home, and that he told JY about the visit, but he is talking with Wake County LE.

In the transcript he says:

“then David, Detective David, if you’re listening, …”

Yes, he's talking to LE in the SW transcript. But, knowing that Mr. Fisher was terminally ill, do you think the DA went all the way to NJ and didn't get a deposition?

[impartial]

I found his description of how Jason avoided the room with Michelle's memorial (for lack of a better word) particularly disturbing. Hopefully some of this information will get into the trial. Alan was interviewed by detectives, it was taped, IIRC, so it will not be hearsay evidence.


Taped, written, recorded ... any out of court statement offered for the truth of the matter asserted therein is hearsay.

The affidavit won't be admissible because it is hearsay, and does not appear to fall within any of the hearsay exceptions.

Additionally, because Mr. Fisher is no longer alive, and therefore not subject to cross-examination, admitting the tape would also violate the defendant's constitutional right to confront witnesses.

imo

[frankdrack]

I do understand what you are trying to convey, from a defense point of view, but I also believe you are wrong. It is my prerogative to believe you are wrong. People evolve, their feelings about others evolve, with or without the aid of someone else. It is my feeling that Alan, upon watching Jason Lynn Young in his home, revised his thinking about his son-in-law. Sad day for Alan, that is for sure, to come to the realization that his beautiful daughter was murdered by this beast*.

*my perception of the SLAYER

I agree that people can evolve but the transcript shows the detective David sure helped Mr. Fisher in the evolution process.

[frankdrack]

Yes, he's talking to LE in the SW transcript. But, knowing that Mr. Fisher was terminally ill, do you think the DA went all the way to NJ and didn't get a deposition?

No idea. If he did, none of the material was included in SWs.

[Cardinal]

One of the great things about tunnel vision. Can’t you hear the defense team saying: “There could be numerous other people capable of the crime that LE never bothered to investigate because the locked on to the poor innocent husband from the beginning. Do you know how many violent criminals there are on parole in the area?”

Sure I can hear them saying it. And the DA may or may not be able to refute that statement. But do you think the jury will completely disregard all of the CE and all of the witnesses in order to buy it?

[Cardinal]

No idea. If he did, none of the material was included in SWs.

They had more than enough in the emails and interview to establish PC for that warrant. No need to include or even mention a deposition, if one exists.

Spivey made it clear in the WDS that there was additional evidence that had not been made public.

[impartial]

Yes, he's talking to LE in the SW transcript. But, knowing that Mr. Fisher was terminally ill, do you think the DA went all the way to NJ and didn't get a deposition?


Depositions require that notice of the deposition is given to all interested persons/parties, so they may attend the deposition. Depositions are part of the discovery process during the pendancy of the action.

imo

[frankdrack]

Sure I can hear them saying it. And the DA may or may not be able to refute that statement. But do you think the jury will completely disregard all of the CE and all of the witnesses in order to buy it?

I have no idea. That is why I am so interested in what happened in GJ room. Since the last SW LE might have developed a slam dunk case… with video of JY driving his car near home at 4:00 AM. Who knows?

[5swab5]

Taped, written, recorded ... any out of court statement offered for the truth of the matter asserted therein is hearsay.

The affidavit won't be admissible because it is hearsay, and does not appear to fall within any of the hearsay exceptions.

Additionally, because Mr. Fisher is no longer alive, and therefore not subject to cross-examination, admitting the tape would also violate the defendant's constitutional right to confront witnesses.

imo

That's not the way things have been working.

Can't kill someone, fail to find their declaration that you ARE going to kill them and then claim foul...because your Attorney can't cross examine them...see Jensen.

Same thing with the theory that you deserve special treatment because you are an orphan...yet you killed you parents...see Menendez.

MOO

[enigma™]

In the transcript Mr. Fisher referenced that someone from the DA’s office came to his home, and that he told JY about the visit, but he is talking with Wake County LE.

In the transcript he says:

“then David, Detective David, if you’re listening, …”

Also in the transcripts, Jason, the SLAYER, states "I have been advised not to discuss ANYTHING with ANYONE" his caps, his words, his evasion. Wow. One would think he would like to be just a little more gentle with someone that was suffering the loss of his daughter and also looking into the eyes of his own demise. How cruel. I would expect nothing less, though.

[5swab5]

One of the great things about tunnel vision. Can’t you hear the defense team saying: “There could be numerous other people capable of the crime that LE never bothered to investigate because the locked on to the poor innocent husband from the beginning. Do you know how many violent criminals there are on parole in the area?”

:lol: Tunnel Vision after a 3+ year investigation. That won't even make it over the bar. MOO

[impartial]

That's not the way things have been working.

Can't kill someone, fail to find their declaration that you ARE going to kill them and then claim foul...because your Attorney can't cross examine them...see Jensen.

Same thing with the theory that you deserve special treatment because you are an orphan...yet you killed you parents...see Menendez.

MOO\

There has to be an exception to the hearsay rule for an out of court statement to be admissible ... declaration against interest, dying declaration, admission, inconsistent statement, etc.

I am not sure what statements you are referring to with respect to the Menendez case ... the Jensen case, a declaration that you are going to kill someone falls within several exceptions.

imo

[enigma™]

Taped, written, recorded ... any out of court statement offered for the truth of the matter asserted therein is hearsay.

The affidavit won't be admissible because it is hearsay, and does not appear to fall within any of the hearsay exceptions.

Additionally, because Mr. Fisher is no longer alive, and therefore not subject to cross-examination, admitting the tape would also violate the defendant's constitutional right to confront witnesses.

imo

Well, phooey, that sure brought a cloud over some things I had hoped to hear during the trial.

[frankdrack]

Also in the transcripts, Jason, the SLAYER, states "I have been advised not to discuss ANYTHING with ANYONE" his caps, his words, his evasion. Wow. One would think he would like to be just a little more gentle with someone that was suffering the loss of his daughter and also looking into the eyes of his own demise. How cruel. I would expect nothing less, though.

I can’t imagine a jury be shocked that a defendant told someone that "I have been advised not to discuss ANYTHING with ANYONE".

Mr. Fisher also told JY that he couldn’t tell him anything that he and DA discussed. SOP, don’t you think?

[impartial]

Well, phooey, that sure brought a cloud over some things I had hoped to hear during the trial.


Don't lose all hope ... there are ways around the hearsay rule ... but in reading the transcription of the tape, I don't really see how. Others that know the defendant can certainly testify in court about his behavior, though; as long as it is relevant. Relevancy enjoys wide latitude.

imo

[Cardinal]

Don't lose all hope ... there are ways around the hearsay rule ... but in reading the transcription of the tape, I don't really see how. Others that know the defendant can certainly testify in court about his behavior, though; as long as it is relevant. Relevancy enjoys wide latitude.

imo

Well then, as RPD noted earlier, June Fisher is still very much alive. And she was there too.

[Cardinal]

I have no idea. That is why I am so interested in what happened in GJ room. Since the last SW LE might have developed a slam dunk case… with video of JY driving his car near home at 4:00 AM. Who knows?

I think we'd all like to know what happened in the GJ room!

[frankdrack]

I think we'd all like to know what happened in the GJ room!

I would also like to understand the decision process for going to the GJ now. New evidence, thinking that the case wasn’t getting any better, politics? All three, and many more, have been reasons in past cases.

[gooBgone]

I have no idea. That is why I am so interested in what happened in GJ room. Since the last SW LE might have developed a slam dunk case… with video of JY driving his car near home at 4:00 AM. Who knows?

I herd that their was only one witness at the grand jury and he was their for 20 minutes.

[enigma™]

I can’t imagine a jury be shocked that a defendant told someone that "I have been advised not to discuss ANYTHING with ANYONE".

Mr. Fisher also told JY that he couldn’t tell him anything that he and DA discussed. SOP, don’t you think?

Yes, absolutely, but perhaps some of those E-mails will make it into the case. Then, the jury can decide and weigh it for what it is worth. That is my hope.

[enigma™]

Don't lose all hope ... there are ways around the hearsay rule ... but in reading the transcription of the tape, I don't really see how. Others that know the defendant can certainly testify in court about his behavior, though; as long as it is relevant. Relevancy enjoys wide latitude.

imo

I am not losing hope, but realizing what may or may not be admissable is enlightening. Thank you for your informative posts.

[enigma™]

I would also like to understand the decision process for going to the GJ now. New evidence, thinking that the case wasn’t getting any better, politics? All three, and many more, have been reasons in past cases.

In these difficult economic times, it has crossed my mind that someone came forward and tried to claim the reward that was offered by Progress Energy. Does anyone know if that offer still stands?

[impartial]

I herd that their was only one witness at the grand jury and he was their for 20 minutes.


Grand jury proceedings can and do rely on hearsay ... they are hearings for probable cause for an indictment, in probable cause hearings ie preliminary trial to see if there is sufficient evidence to bind the defendant over for trial ... the hearsay rule doesn't apply.

imo

[frankdrack]

Yes, absolutely, but perhaps some of those E-mails will make it into the case. Then, the jury can decide and weigh it for what it is worth. That is my hope.

Remember the SW reflect selected excerpts from a few emails, what LE thought would give them probable cause to get the warrants. We have not heard anything from the defense team yet and I expect that there are many things that they will be eager to reveal.

[enigma™]

Remember the SW reflect selected excerpts from a few emails, what LE thought would give them probable cause to get the warrants. We have not heard anything from the defense team yet and I expect that there are many things that they will be eager to reveal.

I know this, and that the most damaging of verbiage was procured to get the search warrants. All the superfluous words in between will not matter in the big scheme of things. My thoughts.

I do not expect to hear from the defense until trial time, unless they proffer a possible plea request. MUO

[impartial]

I haven't followed this case closely, but from trying to catch up, this is what I have garnered as to why LE was looking at Jason as the suspect:

1. Affair (s).

2. Lawyered up immediately.

3. Domestic abuse ... is this documented anywhere ... or is this from friends, family, etc.

4. The e-bay purse auction was already closed at the time of the email to Meredith. Is this part of the police's suspicions, or is it the posters?

5. Jason's shoe purchase ... bloody footprint matches one of his purchases. Is there something about the size of the footprint and the size that Jason normally wears? I'm clueless as to the blistered foot evidence.

6. Jason's post-murder behavior; not allowing the grandparents alone with his daughter, etc.

7. Adult medication in the daughter's bedroom, with her DNA on the dropper.


Anything else?

TIA

[frankdrack]

I know this, and that the most damaging of verbiage was procured to get the search warrants. All the superfluous words in between will not matter in the big scheme of things.



Are you completely discounting that there may be material favorable to the defense found during discovery?

I expect that there is much more than “superfluous words in between”.

[frankdrack]

I haven't followed this case closely, but from trying to catch up, this is what I have garnered as to why LE was looking at Jason as the suspect:

1. Affair (s).

2. Lawyered up immediately.

3. Domestic abuse ... is this documented anywhere ... or is this from friends, family, etc.

4. The e-bay purse auction was already closed at the time of the email to Meredith. Is this part of the police's suspicions, or is it the posters?

5. Jason's shoe purchase ... bloody footprint matches one of his purchases. Is there something about the size of the footprint and the size that Jason normally wears? I'm clueless as to the blistered foot evidence.

6. Jason's post-murder behavior; not allowing the grandparents alone with his daughter, etc.

7. Adult medication in the daughter's bedroom, with her DNA on the dropper.


Anything else?

TIA

Take a quick look at:

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/10/4508366/20090210114743620.pdf

It outlines many of the issues.

[gooBgone]

Grand jury proceedings can and do rely on hearsay ... they are hearings for probable cause for an indictment, in probable cause hearings ie preliminary trial to see if there is sufficient evidence to bind the defendant over for trial ... the hearsay rule doesn't apply.

imo

impartial, thank you for explainng this. We talk about this case allot where I work. One thing we keep wondering is that other shoe print and how it got on a pillow case. I think he had to go back to the bedroom for some reason and left his real shoe imprint after he thought he was done. I can't imagine any one doing such unspeakeable things to another but Jason don't seem normal to us.

[5swab5]

Grand jury proceedings can and do rely on hearsay ... they are hearings for probable cause for an indictment, in probable cause hearings ie preliminary trial to see if there is sufficient evidence to bind the defendant over for trial ... the hearsay rule doesn't apply.

imo

Be that as it may. I still think it is HIGHLY significant that only ONE investigator testified and the GJ had heard enough 20 minutes into her/his testimony to indict. JMO

[5swab5]

Remember the SW reflect selected excerpts from a few emails, what LE thought would give them probable cause to get the warrants. We have not heard anything from the defense team yet and I expect that there are many things that they will be eager to reveal.

I suspect there ARE many other emails too. I also suspect LE only used the tip of the proverbial iceberg to obtain their SWs. Not to mention those pesky IMs/texts/PMs and phone calls to mom and Michelle Money on that fateful day. MOO

[frankdrack]

Be that as it may. I still think it is HIGHLY significant that only ONE investigator testified and the GJ had heard enough 20 minutes into her/his testimony to indict. JMO

Do you think that it is possible that it was the last of multiple times this case was presented to GJ?

[frankdrack]

I suspect there ARE many other emails too. I also suspect LE only used the tip of the proverbial iceberg to obtain their SWs. Not to mention those pecky IMs/texts/PMs and phone calls to mom and Michelle Money on that fateful day. MOO

I bet that you are correct.

[impartial]

Take a quick look at:

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/10/4508366/20090210114743620.pdf

It outlines many of the issues.


I did read that, and in re-reading it, the e-bay auction is from the investigation.

I'm still clueless about the blistered foot evidence ... indicating that the blisters on his feet could be from wearing too small of shoes. How does this fit in? Is the foot print on the pillow/pillow case smaller than what Jason normally wears in shoe sizes? Is the answer in the SW and I am just missing it?

Thanks for the link, and the response. :thumbup:

[5swab5]

Do you think that it is possible that it was the last of multiple times this case was presented to GJ?

Nope. I think this is the first, last and only time.

[5swab5]

I haven't followed this case closely, but from trying to catch up, this is what I have garnered as to why LE was looking at Jason as the suspect:

1. Affair (s).

2. Lawyered up immediately.

3. Domestic abuse ... is this documented anywhere ... or is this from friends, family, etc.

4. The e-bay purse auction was already closed at the time of the email to Meredith. Is this part of the police's suspicions, or is it the posters?

5. Jason's shoe purchase ... bloody footprint matches one of his purchases. Is there something about the size of the footprint and the size that Jason normally wears? I'm clueless as to the blistered foot evidence.

6. Jason's post-murder behavior; not allowing the grandparents alone with his daughter, etc.

7. Adult medication in the daughter's bedroom, with her DNA on the dropper.


Anything else?

TIA

a) Sending Meredith to the house on a fluke
b) leaving his home a WHOLE day ahead of time for an appointment, that he still managed to be late for
c) ONLY using his "key card" once in the hotel
d) Not eating homemade food with Michelle & her friend, because he wasn't "hungry", but stopping @ a Cracker Barrel just up the road
e) Appearing on camera near an exit door in the hotel within an hour of checking in, and THOSE VERY SAME CLOTHES are never to be seen again
f) witness that sees the house "lit up like a Christmas tree" in the early predawn hours in Enchanted Oaks

g) season ticket holder for NCSU football games, HomeComing Weekend, has out of town guests coming. Decides at the last minute to swing by Brevard to pick up "something". Never calls to cancel those people, but calls mom a zillion times that day.

I could go on and on and ON. I live here and have been following since day ONE.

I'm sure others will add to our lists, but I think you seriously need to read WAY back to get every single nuance. Peace. MOO

[jerry50]

I haven't followed this case closely, but from trying to catch up, this is what I have garnered as to why LE was looking at Jason as the suspect:

1. Affair (s).

2. Lawyered up immediately.

3. Domestic abuse ... is this documented anywhere ... or is this from friends, family, etc.

4. The e-bay purse auction was already closed at the time of the email to Meredith. Is this part of the police's suspicions, or is it the posters?

5. Jason's shoe purchase ... bloody footprint matches one of his purchases. Is there something about the size of the footprint and the size that Jason normally wears? I'm clueless as to the blistered foot evidence.

6. Jason's post-murder behavior; not allowing the grandparents alone with his daughter, etc.

7. Adult medication in the daughter's bedroom, with her DNA on the dropper.


Anything else?

TIA

"Daddy did it".

Post murder behaviour immediately after he heard about the murder and knowing his daughter was left alone to fend for herself: He did not return home immediately. Who is going to wait for all of the relatives to show up so they can only take one car?! An innocent person would have turned around as soon as they heard.

[frankdrack]

I did read that, and in re-reading it, the e-bay auction is from the investigation.

I'm still clueless about the blistered foot evidence ... indicating that the blisters on his feet could be from wearing too small of shoes. How does this fit in? Is the foot print on the pillow/pillow case smaller than what Jason normally wears in shoe sizes? Is the answer in the SW and I am just missing it?

Thanks for the link, and the response. :thumbup:

One of the impressions was made by a “Franklin brand athletic type shoe” the number 10 could be seen in the impression. The other impression was made by a Hushpuppy brand with the same outer sole as the pair that JY purchased at DSW.


I guess the theory is that JY changed into his Franklin size 10 to commit the murder but at some point he reentered the crime scene wearing his size 12 Hushpuppies. The blisters were caused by wearing the too small Franklins during the murder.

[impartial]

a) Sending Meredith to the house on a fluke
b) leaving his home a WHOLE day ahead of time for an appointment, that he still managed to be late for
c) ONLY using his "key card" once in the hotel
d) Not eating homemade food with Michelle & her friend, because he wasn't "hungry", but stopping @ a Cracker Barrel just up the road
e) Appearing on camera near an exit door in the hotel within an hour of checking in, and THOSE VERY SAME CLOTHES are never to be seen again
f) witness that sees the house "lit up like a Christmas tree" in the early predawn hours in Enchanted Oaks

I could go on and on and ON. I live here and have been following since day ONE.

I'm sure others will add to our lists, but I think you seriously need to read WAY back to get every single nuance. Peace. MOO


Thanks!

The e-bay auction closing prior to the e-mail is the evidence attached to sending Meredith to the house on a fluke.

Did Jason not check out of the hotel? They have him on tape near the exit, and if his key card was only used once, then that implies he did not return to his room after he was near the exit. Does the investigation reveal that he did not check out of the hotel the following morning?

His not eating with Michelle and her friend ... what does that signify? He ate up the road, but how does that fit into a murder charge?

Clothes never to be seen again ... not good. Sending Meredith over there, also not good. Circumstantially looks like he didn't want their daughter to have to be there alone with her dead mother for too long ... 1 second is too long in my book.

Sorry to be coming late to the party and asking so many questions ...

imo

[jerry50]

Be that as it may. I still think it is HIGHLY significant that only ONE investigator testified and the GJ had heard enough 20 minutes into her/his testimony to indict. JMO

I totally agree. LE has something in their multitude of evidence that swayed the jury to such a quick resolution. The long wait before the DA presented this to a GJ could easily have been because they were waiting for DNA results that were BARD.

I don't think that the statements from Alan Fisher are going to entered as evidence since he can't be cross examined. The evidence rules that allow testimony from a dead person is when the dead person is the victim.

Plus I don't think that Alan's remarks are going to be necessary for a conviction and aren't worth the time for the DA to fight over.

I think the DA will be using his time to question Pat Young about the phones JY made that morning. She may already have told LE some things about them and she may need to pray that her recollection is 100%. I imagine that she could spend a few hours in the hot seat.

[achristie]

I can’t imagine a jury be shocked that a defendant told someone that "I have been advised not to discuss ANYTHING with ANYONE".

Mr. Fisher also told JY that he couldn’t tell him anything that he and DA discussed. SOP, don’t you think?

You're right. But as a juror I would be more interested in his wimpy explanation about his phone, his Mom's phone, and all the other drivel. Lame excuses. Not taking charge and making things work. Just excuses. He's a coward and his FIL figured it out. Keep in mind, as RPD noted, Mr. Fishers wife, June, is alive and well.
:wink:

[achristie]

Remember the SW reflect selected excerpts from a few emails, what LE thought would give them probable cause to get the warrants. We have not heard anything from the defense team yet and I expect that there are many things that they will be eager to reveal.

The flip side is that they have even worse material that they are holding back. No need to show their hand in advance, right?

[impartial]

One of the impressions was made by a “Franklin brand athletic type shoe” the number 10 could be seen in the impression. The other impression was made by a Hushpuppy brand with the same outer sole as the pair that JY purchased at DSW.


I guess the theory is that JY changed into his Franklin size 10 to commit the murder but at some point he reentered the crime scene wearing his size 12 Hushpuppies. The blisters were caused by wearing the too small Franklins during the murder.


Thank you!

When reading the SW, it was more focused on the hushpuppies, and finding a style that fit that impression. I wonder what size Jason normally wears.

[PrimeSuspect210]

In the state of NC, there are Probable Cause Hearings AND Grand Jury Hearings ... the 2 serve different purposes. Primarily, the difference is that the defense doesn't know about and cannot present their side in a GJ Hearing. In a PC Hearing they can. To me, it's as simple as that.

With that said, I believe Colon Willoughby uses the GJ as a sounding board. We've all heard the indicting of a ham sandwich saying, and I've cursed many a GJ Hearing because the defense doesn't know about it, but I truly do not believe Colon uses GJ as a means to arrest whomever he can.

Bottom line, for me on this case is, Colon could have had the Probable Cause Hearing, but he didn't. Indicates a mostly circumstantial case, to this "innocent until proven guilty" kinda gal. (and in this case, that doesn't make me a happy camper)

[frankdrack]

Thanks!


Clothes never to be seen again ... not good.

imo

RPD also thinks that the clothes are a huge issue but I am not sure. I don’t see a SW for anyplace that JY was living after the murder until Feb of 2008 when LE went to Brevard & Etowah.

How do we know that the clothes are missing?

[frankdrack]

Thank you!

When reading the SW, it was more focused on the hushpuppies, and finding a style that fit that impression. I wonder what size Jason normally wears.

I believe that his normal size is 12.

[gooBgone]

Thanks!

The e-bay auction closing prior to the e-mail is the evidence attached to sending Meredith to the house on a fluke.

Did Jason not check out of the hotel? They have him on tape near the exit, and if his key card was only used once, then that implies he did not return to his room after he was near the exit. Does the investigation reveal that he did not check out of the hotel the following morning?

His not eating with Michelle and her friend ... what does that signify? He ate up the road, but how does that fit into a murder charge?

Clothes never to be seen again ... not good. Sending Meredith over there, also not good. Circumstantially looks like he didn't want their daughter to have to be there alone with her dead mother for too long ... 1 second is too long in my book.

Sorry to be coming late to the party and asking so many questions ...

imo


Jason checked in to the motel and changed his outfit. Does the tape show him leaving with his luggage. Did someone help Jason some where during this. It makes me sick how he did his wife and unborne child in.

[frankdrack]

Frank....it seems the case was basically ready to go after year 2.
WRAL reported the 3rd year delay involved the civil cases and their resolution , plus the fact that Becky Holt (A. DA and lead prosecutor for this case) was 'on loan' to the Feds for a drug task force and did not return until 9/09.

Spivey said this back in 2/09.....the DA obviously decided there was 'nothing else to get' and authorized the indictment for 12-14-09

"When the law enforcement side and the district attorney's side are more satisfied that we've gotten everything we're going to get, I'm sure there'll be an indictment" against Jason Young, Wake County Detective R.C. Spivey III said.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local_state/story/38667.html

Thanks. It sounds like thhey fely that Ms. Holt was a key player.

[5swab5]

One of the impressions was made by a “Franklin brand athletic type shoe” the number 10 could be seen in the impression. The other impression was made by a Hushpuppy brand with the same outer sole as the pair that JY purchased at DSW.


I guess the theory is that JY changed into his Franklin size 10 to commit the murder but at some point he reentered the crime scene wearing his size 12 Hushpuppies. The blisters were caused by wearing the too small Franklins during the murder.


And that very SAME Franklin shoe print is NOT inconsistent (in either the stain or sealer...or stain/sealer combo) impregnated on Michelle & Jason's rear deck. MOO

[impartial]

In the state of NC, there are Probable Cause Hearings AND Grand Jury Hearings ... the 2 serve different purposes. Primarily, the difference is that the defense doesn't know about and cannot present their side in a GJ Hearing. In a PC Hearing they can. To me, it's as simple as that.

With that said, I believe Colon Willoughby uses the GJ as a sounding board. We've all heard the indicting of a ham sandwich saying, and I've cursed many a GJ Hearing because the defense doesn't know about it, but I truly do not believe Colon uses GJ as a means to arrest whomever he can.

Bottom line, for me on this case is, Colon could have had the Probable Cause Hearing, but he didn't. Indicates a mostly circumstantial case, to this "innocent until proven guilty" kinda gal. (and in this case, that doesn't make me a happy camper)


Sometimes the GJ is used when the DA feels the case isn't strong enough to file charges. Politically, it takes the heat off the DA's office if they lose the case, since they weren't the ones to file to begin with. And politically, it helps calm public outcry (if there is one) because there has been an indictment and arrest. You're right about the ham sandwich and the GJ.

imo

[gooBgone]

Frank....it seems the case was basically ready to go after year 2.
WRAL reported the 3rd year delay involved the civil cases and their resolution , plus the fact that Becky Holt (A. DA and lead prosecutor for this case) was 'on loan' to the Feds for a drug task force and did not return until 9/09.

Spivey said this back in 2/09.....the DA obviously decided there was 'nothing else to get' and authorized the indictment for 12-14-09

"When the law enforcement side and the district attorney's side are more satisfied that we've gotten everything we're going to get, I'm sure there'll be an indictment" against Jason Young, Wake County Detective R.C. Spivey III said.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local_state/story/38667.html



This is such a powerful story in your link. I am not sure how to copy and paste but the part of the story how the sister got tonge tied when Michelles little girl asked why God took her mommy so soon is the saddest thing I ever herd. I hope and pray that the pain and suffering isn't for ever.

[5swab5]

RPD also thinks that the clothes are a huge issue but I am not sure. I don’t see a SW for anyplace that JY was living after the murder until Feb of 2008 when LE went to Brevard & Etowah.

How do we know that the clothes are missing?


Pat Young was question extensively when the entourage FINALLY returned to Raleigh. Everything was impounded.

They were in Jason's vehicle, Pat said Jason neither removed or washed anything at her house. HOW, Pray tell does one arrived so dead tired they can't even talk to some friends about a ballgame, change clothes within an hour, arrive late for a meeting the next morning and still have time to lose clothes?

VERY IMPORTANT CLOTHES, I MIGHT ADD!!!!!!!!! Course Jason isn't talking.

I expect his Attorney to say that Jason drove with the windows down and wasn't concerned about litter, it just gave him less laundry to worry about when he got home.

MOO

[frankdrack]

Sometimes the GJ is used when the DA feels the case isn't strong enough to file charges. Politically, it takes the heat off the DA's office if they lose the case, since they weren't the ones to file to begin with. And politically, it helps calm public outcry (if there is one) because there has been an indictment and arrest. You're right about the ham sandwich and the GJ.

imo

What makes this case a little bit different is that you have a defendant that never said a word to LE. He invoked the right to counsel up before they could ask him anything. In fact they included in the SW that he hung-up on them after he told them he wasn’t saying anything until after he spoke to an attorney.

The discrepancies between their statement and subsequent information is what usually trips up defendants. LE points out the discrepancies to the defendant and they revise their story.

[Doorbell]

Unless I missed something, I don’t think that Mr. Fisher’s interview will be part of the trial. Since he is dead, I don’t believe that the NC rules of evidence will allow it.

Even if it did I think the defense team would love the section where Mr. Fisher says:
“And that he would do that because he knows – he can be very smart boy and he really can be – there’s a side of him that, some sides of him that I found out after the murder that I never knew existed. I mean David told me a long time ago that he’s not the person that you think that he is. Then – David, Detective David, if you’re listening, you’re a hundred percent, hundred fifty percent right.

Detective David says:
“Well, I need to say that to be right. I just wanted you to understand that there’s other sides of the people.”

I view that as a huge win for the defense. It seems pretty clear that Mr. Fisher liked JY, thought of him as carefree, shoo from the hip type of guy. Sometime after the murder LE convinced him that JY is not who he thinks he is.

I believe that this will fit in nicely with any potential Tunnel vision theory that the defense might introduce.

Seems to me that Jason was the one who convinced Alan that JY was not the man Alan thought he was, through his actions after Michelle's murder.

[jerzeegirl]

RPD also thinks that the clothes are a huge issue but I am not sure. I don’t see a SW for anyplace that JY was living after the murder until Feb of 2008 when LE went to Brevard & Etowah.

How do we know that the clothes are missing?


I am also a believer that the clothes that he changed into after checking into the hotel are not only missing but very significant. In one of the search warrants it stated that Pat Young said that when JY got out of his car at her house he did not bring anything from the contents of his car except for a jacket slung over his shoulder. Upon JY's arrival back to Raleigh that day, his car was seized and all his luggage and contents of his luggage and car was searched. The tape from the hotel was retrieved the very next day. If that shirt was in there, it would not have been an issue for LE in further SW's.

[5swab5]

AND, perhaps some of the most prophetic words of all.

To Michelle Money: (just days before the slaughter)

I don't know how all this happened, but I know how it will end up..........two broken hearts......but I don't care. I know there is pain in my future, but you are so worth it, even if it's only for a blink in time.

[Cardinal]

Sometimes the GJ is used when the DA feels the case isn't strong enough to file charges. Politically, it takes the heat off the DA's office if they lose the case, since they weren't the ones to file to begin with. And politically, it helps calm public outcry (if there is one) because there has been an indictment and arrest. You're right about the ham sandwich and the GJ.

imo

I'm not aware of the PC hearing being used a great deal in NC. I think the DAs here prefer the GJ because they don't have to "preview" their case for the defense.

[PrimeSuspect210]

Sometimes the GJ is used when the DA feels the case isn't strong enough to file charges. Politically, it takes the heat off the DA's office if they lose the case, since they weren't the ones to file to begin with. And politically, it helps calm public outcry (if there is one) because there has been an indictment and arrest. You're right about the ham sandwich and the GJ.

imo
While I respect your opinion, I also know Colon's history and the way he appears to use the GJ to do his job, which, as I stated, appears to me, to be a sounding board. FTR, Politically, Colon Willoughby has NOTHING to worry about in Wake County, NC, IMO.

[Cardinal]

I am also a believer that the clothes that he changed into after checking into the hotel are not only missing but very significant. In one of the search warrants it stated that Pat Young said that when JY got out of his car at her house he did not bring anything from the contents of his car except for a jacket slung over his shoulder. Upon JY's arrival back to Raleigh that day, his car was seized and all his luggage and contents of his luggage and car was searched. The tape from the hotel was retrieved the very next day. If that shirt was in there, it would not have been an issue for LE in further SW's.

I agree, jerzee. I think the subsequent SWs were to prevent the clothes from magically reappearing in court.