grand jury has decided to indict my son; say a prayer for him.

[Bad JuJu]

As some of you know, my son, a former police was accused of "brutality/excessive force" some time ago while on the job. A grand jury was convening in Nov and again this month to decide what was going to happen.
Well, they decided to indict my boy on four counts of malfeasance in office. There were two incidents and three people were indicted. The other two got one count a piece, but my son, the lieutenant wound up with the four because two are because he was the top officer on the shift.
I am beside myself....Please, I don't know what happened to the prayer threads, and maybe I shouldn't even ask, but please say a prayer for him. He is my heart and I can't believe this nightmare.

[Riverwalk!]

I'm so sorry from one mom to another.

Here's the link to our special requests forum

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/forumdisplay.php?f=581

[bearwds]

Clear up for me the process...

After Grand Jury indictment does it immediately get referred to a court date, or referred to DA for charging..??


bear

[Details]

I'm so sorry to hear that. Still - I think he'll be cleared. The grand jury is a low hurdle - it's not that hard to get them to approve a case. In a real court, he'll have his attorney, and his chance to rebut everything. I'm so sorry though - it's going to be so stressful going through this, I'm sure.

[Peeps]

Prayers and good wishes to you and your son, Bad JuJu.

[Bad JuJu]

Clear up for me the process...

After Grand Jury indictment does it immediately get referred to a court date, or referred to DA for charging..??


bear

As I understand it...there will be an arraignment where he will be appointed a lawyer. We don't have money to pay for one. I am praying that at least he gets one who will care about him.

[HolyMoly]

As I understand it...there will be an arraignment where he will be appointed a lawyer. We don't have money to pay for one. I am praying that at least he gets one who will care about him.


I am wondering why the department he worked for isn't providing a lawyer for him. Isn't he charged with activities occuring during the course of duty?

[bearwds]

As I understand it...there will be an arraignment where he will be appointed a lawyer. We don't have money to pay for one. I am praying that at least he gets one who will care about him.

***************************************

Thanks for replying. I somehow thought that having a Grand Jury referral would automatically negate the requirement for a preliminary hearing.

The arraignment, which is next, includes the lawyer you mentioned.

At that time, the DA decides which charges, if any, will be brought.

Deal making and pressure to plead to lesser charges occurs then, and actually all the way to trial.

You mentioned "former" enforcement officer. Has he been placed on administrative leave, or has he left the department..??

Are all the defendants going to be tried together..??

Any chance of a separate deal being cut by one of the defendants..??

Has a civil suit been filed..??

Interesting topic and I hope all works out for your son.


bear

[doctor_J]

I, too, was wondering why you state he is a "former" police officer? Since he is being arraigned on charges of conduct as a police officer, did he resign because of the "excessive force" incident? Seems like with administrative leave he would still be a current police officer,,,,,until such time as he is convicted or acquited. Seems like resigning in the midst of such an complaint would be tantamount to an admission of guilt. Hope not.

Regardless, as a mother, I can't imagine your agony and I have great sympathy for your pain. You said it best, our boys are our heart, and their pain is our pain.

I really hate the idea of any public servant being unjustly charged, if that is the case. They put their life on the line every day. Every one wants one when they need help but so many take them for granted or actively show contempt otherwise.

[warhorse46]

I hate to hear this news, sure hope all works out well for your family in the end.

[peggyleggy]

I agree with you IF he is being unjustly brought up on these charges. Unfortunately, there are many times this kind of abusive, and illegal behavior does go on. That's why we have a judicial system. He will be acquitted if he is "NOT GUILTY" and for his Mother's sake I hope he is NOT GUILTY. I am intrigued by the fact that he is a "former" policeman and would like to know the circumstances leading up to that event. mo

After googling the facts in this story, this is the only case that comes up matching. According to the story the Lt. has resigned his position so I would think he would not be eligible for a company provided attorney.


http://www.dailyworld.com/article/20091209/NEWS01/91209001/1002/Three-Eunice-police-officers-indicted

[AngelWings]

So sorry to hear this news...I will keep you both in my prayers JuJu

[FrankieBones1]

After googling the facts in this story, this is the only case that comes up matching. According to the story the Lt. has resigned his position so I would think he would not be eligible for a company provided attorney.


http://www.dailyworld.com/article/20091209/NEWS01/91209001/1002/Three-Eunice-police-officers-indicted


This story doesn't give a reason for the resignation either.
http://www.dailyworld.com/article/20091210/NEWS01/912100314/-1/NEWSFRONT2#pluckcomments

[Bottrell]

This story gives a little more info.




http://www.thetowntalk.com/article/20091210/NEWS01/91210006/-1/PHOTOGALLERIES/3-Eunice-officers-indicted-for-malfeasance-in-office

This one has a little more info. I guess we will have to see what comes out at a trial.

http://www.eunicetoday.com/content/chief-mum-three-indictments

[Citygirl]

Wow..so many links..thanks everyone..I don't even have to google..

maybe the video from the parkin lot will show the truth of the matter..or maybe the grand jury saw the video and that was part of the evidence they used to find for a "true bill"..

either way, whether he is guilty or innocent..this is a bad time of year to have to be dealin with this, as a momma.

[CelticDawn]

As some of you know, my son, a former police was accused of "brutality/excessive force" some time ago while on the job. A grand jury was convening in Nov and again this month to decide what was going to happen.
Well, they decided to indict my boy on four counts of malfeasance in office. There were two incidents and three people were indicted. The other two got one count a piece, but my son, the lieutenant wound up with the four because two are because he was the top officer on the shift.
I am beside myself....Please, I don't know what happened to the prayer threads, and maybe I shouldn't even ask, but please say a prayer for him. He is my heart and I can't believe this nightmare.



First of all, My prayers and well wishes go out to your son.

I have seen time and time again the accusations made toward those who protect our citizenry daily,...while putting their lives on the line for strangers. There are always those who would attack these brave men and women.


Again, My prayers go out to you, your son, and all Low Enforcement Everywhere.

[Shells2]

I'm sorry you are going through this BadJuJu... Having your heart broken by your son's actions can not be an easy thing to go through. My thoughts are with you and your family. Please keep us posted on the progress...

[Jay]

As I understand it...there will be an arraignment where he will be appointed a lawyer. We don't have money to pay for one. I am praying that at least he gets one who will care about him.

If he is out on bail then the arraignment can come at any time, within the law, after the Preliminary examination, IF probable cause is still found to charge, or was he arraigned to set bail?

I did find this in the Louisiana Code of Criminal Procedure.




Art. 292. Order for preliminary examination before and after indictment

The court, on request of the state or the defendant, shall immediately order a preliminary examination in felony cases unless the defendant has been indicted by a grand jury.

After the defendant has been indicted by a grand jury, the court may rescind its order for a preliminary examination.

An order for a preliminary examination in felony cases may be granted by the court at any time, either on its own motion or on request of the state or of the defendant before or after the defendant has been indicted by a grand jury.

Amended by Acts 1974, Ex.Sess. No. 16, §1, eff. Jan. 1, 1975.


This a little confusing as paragraphs 1 and 3 seem to contradict themselves??

ANY person charged with a criminal offense in this country that is punishable by possible jail time is entitled to a public defender IF indigent. This determination will be made by the court after statements of income, financial resources etc., are filled out and submitted.

However, the federal constitution does NOT mandate a PD be appointed to defend a person, even if indigent, if NO jail time will be sought, even if authorized by statute. LA may or may not adopt the SC's ruling and appoint in all cases where a trial is requested.


I have never heard of, but it does mean it does not exist, a police union paying for a defense for officer's criminally charged. A Civil suit is another matter, as there, unless named in an individual capacity alone, they will be defended by the govt., as they have the deep pockets and are always named as co-defendant's.

[debbadoo]

I'm sorry you are going through this BadJuJu... Having your heart broken by your son's actions can not be an easy thing to go through. My thoughts are with you and your family. Please keep us posted on the progress...

"alleged" actions...nothing has been proven as of yet.....IMO It is too bad that and officer has to even defend himself against such garbage....hoping for the best!

[warhorse46]

If he is out on bail then the arraignment can come at any time, within the law, after the Preliminary examination, IF probable cause is still found to charge, or was he arraigned to set bail?

I did find this in the Louisiana Code of Criminal Procedure.




Art. 292. Order for preliminary examination before and after indictment

The court, on request of the state or the defendant, shall immediately order a preliminary examination in felony cases unless the defendant has been indicted by a grand jury.

After the defendant has been indicted by a grand jury, the court may rescind its order for a preliminary examination.

An order for a preliminary examination in felony cases may be granted by the court at any time, either on its own motion or on request of the state or of the defendant before or after the defendant has been indicted by a grand jury.

Amended by Acts 1974, Ex.Sess. No. 16, §1, eff. Jan. 1, 1975.


This a little confusing as paragraphs 1 and 3 seem to contradict themselves??

ANY person charged with a criminal offense in this country that is punishable by possible jail time is entitled to a public defender IF indigent. This determination will be made by the court after statements of income, financial resources etc., are filled out and submitted.

However, the federal constitution does NOT mandate a PD be appointed to defend a person, even if indigent, if NO jail time will be sought, even if authorized by statute. LA may or may not adopt the SC's ruling and appoint in all cases where a trial is requested.


I have never heard of, but it does mean it does not exist, a police union paying for a defense for officer's criminally charged. A Civil suit is another matter, as there, unless named in an individual capacity alone, they will be defended by the govt., as they have the deep pockets and are always named as co-defendant's.



I have heard of police unions paying for an accused officer's defense in both civil & criminal cases but I don't think it is a common practice.
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2008/12/burge-defense-fop-torture.html

[HolyMoly]

"alleged" actions...nothing has been proven as of yet.....IMO It is too bad that and officer has to even defend himself against such garbage....hoping for the best!


Unfortunately police misconduct is a reality in today's world.

[Shells2]

"alleged" actions...nothing has been proven as of yet.....IMO It is too bad that and officer has to even defend himself against such garbage....hoping for the best!

You are right "alleged" actions..

Police brutality does occur, and that is sad ~ I don't think it is bad that an officer has to defend himself against anything!!! If the people don't trust the police, and they aren't held accountable, then what hope do any of us have? Cases like this restore faith in the police force IMO. It shows us common folk, that IF a complaint is lodged against an officers misconduct, then it will be dealt with. From reading some of the articles posted it sounds like a lot of complaints have been lodged against that police force and nothing has been done about it. ( no idea if Juju's son was involved in any of that - I'm talking in about the force as a whole)

I think 99% of all police are excellent men and women that represent the law with pride and honor - but it's those few that abuse their position that cause so much social damage.

If Juju's son is innocent, then I hope justice prevails and his name is cleared and they can move on from this mess, and the person that made the false claim is held accountable. If he is guilty, then my heart goes out to his family and community, as it will be very tough to cope with. Either way it is a sad situation.

[warhorse46]

Unfortunately police misconduct is a reality in today's world.



While I agree police misconduct is a reality in today's world, I know that false claims of police misconduct is just as big of a problem. This officer has not been convicted of anything yet so I am not going to assume he is guilty of anything.

[HolyMoly]

While I agree police misconduct is a reality in today's world, I know that false claims of police misconduct is just as big of a problem. This officer has not been convicted of anything yet so I am not going to assume he is guilty of anything.


The only thing I am assuming is that this incident has broken his mother's heart. I do hope it all works out for her.

[debbadoo]

Unfortunately police misconduct is a reality in today's world.

So is criminal misconduct....I'd tend to side with the officer over a criminal, but that is just me, I guess. IMO

[Details]

Unfortunately police misconduct is a reality in today's world.False claims are, IMO, far more common - since on one side you have criminals with nothing to lose by a lie, and on the other side you have a police officer with a career and a good record.

One of my favorites was one where a suspect in a holding cell called the officers over to report police brutality, showing how he had all these bruises from the arresting officer. Unfortunately for the suspect - the cell had a camera on it. And the camera had recorded him running himself into the bunk and hitting himself to create the bruises.


One of the reasons I think police should have video and audio recorders on them at all times. Not just to catch the bad cops, but to protect the good ones from false accusations.

[HolyMoly]

False claims are, IMO, far more common - since on one side you have criminals with nothing to lose by a lie, and on the other side you have a police officer with a career and a good record.

One of my favorites was one where a suspect in a holding cell called the officers over to report police brutality, showing how he had all these bruises from the arresting officer. Unfortunately for the suspect - the cell had a camera on it. And the camera had recorded him running himself into the bunk and hitting himself to create the bruises.


One of the reasons I think police should have video and audio recorders on them at all times. Not just to catch the bad cops, but to protect the good ones from false accusations.


I hesitate to respond to your post, but will preface by stating that my response is in no way intended to suggest any wrongdoing on the part of the son of the originating poster.

I am also opposed to any false claims against police officers, but also by police officers. In either case the damage done to the innocent party and their family members is devastation and injury that lasts a lifetime.

It goes both ways:

"October 12, 1996 Javier Francisco Ovando, 19 years old, was walking down the hallway of an apartment building in the Pico-Union when two cops, Rafael Perez and Nino Durden, stopped him. They forced him to his knees, handcuffed him and shot him in the face. Ovando slumped to the floor. The cops took off the handcuffs and planted a rifle in his hands. Ovando lived--but he is paralyzed and will spend the rest of his life in a wheelchair.

The cops claimed that they were in a vacant apartment when Ovando burst in and pointed two guns at them. The police said they fired in self-defense. Based on the cops' shameless lies, Javier Ovando was convicted of attempted murder of a police officer. A judge declared that Ovando showed no remorse for his "premediated crime"--and sentenced the young man to be locked away for 23 years.

Three years later, the truth has come out. Officer Rafael Perez admitted to the truth about the shooting of Javier Ovando and other crimes committed by CRASH cops. His confession was part of a plea bargain in which he admitted to stealing over eight pounds of cocaine from a police evidence locker."

http://rwor.org/a/v21/1020-029/1024/lapd.htm


More on the Rampart scandal:

http://www.justicejournalism.org/pdfs/CoveringPolice.pdf

[ruger]

Thinking of and praying for you all, my friend. :wub:

[ruger]

I hesitate to respond to your post, but will preface by stating that my response is in no way intended to suggest any wrongdoing on the part of the son of the originating poster.

I am also opposed to any false claims against police officers, but also by police officers. In either case the damage done to the innocent party and their family members is devastation and injury that lasts a lifetime.

It goes both ways:

"October 12, 1996 Javier Francisco Ovando, 19 years old, was walking down the hallway of an apartment building in the Pico-Union when two cops, Rafael Perez and Nino Durden, stopped him. They forced him to his knees, handcuffed him and shot him in the face. Ovando slumped to the floor. The cops took off the handcuffs and planted a rifle in his hands. Ovando lived--but he is paralyzed and will spend the rest of his life in a wheelchair.

The cops claimed that they were in a vacant apartment when Ovando burst in and pointed two guns at them. The police said they fired in self-defense. Based on the cops' shameless lies, Javier Ovando was convicted of attempted murder of a police officer. A judge declared that Ovando showed no remorse for his "premediated crime"--and sentenced the young man to be locked away for 23 years.

Three years later, the truth has come out. Officer Rafael Perez admitted to the truth about the shooting of Javier Ovando and other crimes committed by CRASH cops. His confession was part of a plea bargain in which he admitted to stealing over eight pounds of cocaine from a police evidence locker."

http://rwor.org/a/v21/1020-029/1024/lapd.htm


More on the Rampart scandal:

http://www.justicejournalism.org/pdfs/CoveringPolice.pdf

There are good and bad people in every profession. Having been in LE for many, many years ...... it is becoming more and more evident that the street-savvy perps are becoming more vocal in their "brutality" claims ..... and, coming out on top, which perpetuates this behavior. They, by word of mouth, have perfected this and due to "politics" within the system most ALL of the GOOD people in Law Enforcement are just getting the heck out, rather than chance something happening to them as in the case of BadJuJu's son ........ this leaves the "cowboy" cops (as we call them) and THAT is NOT a good thing.

It is becoming like the wild, wild west out on our streets.

I'm not debating, or putting down your post, just stating my opinion & personal experience.

[ruger]

False claims are, IMO, far more common - since on one side you have criminals with nothing to lose by a lie, and on the other side you have a police officer with a career and a good record.

One of my favorites was one where a suspect in a holding cell called the officers over to report police brutality, showing how he had all these bruises from the arresting officer. Unfortunately for the suspect - the cell had a camera on it. And the camera had recorded him running himself into the bunk and hitting himself to create the bruises.


One of the reasons I think police should have video and audio recorders on them at all times. Not just to catch the bad cops, but to protect the good ones from false accusations.

Thank You, Details!

[HolyMoly]

There are good and bad people in every profession. Having been in LE for many, many years ...... it is becoming more and more evident that the street-savvy perps are becoming more vocal in their "brutality" claims ..... and, coming out on top, which perpetuates this behavior. They, by word of mouth, have perfected this and due to "politics" within the system most ALL of the GOOD people in Law Enforcement are just getting the heck out, rather than chance something happening to them as in the case of BadJuJu's son ........ this leaves the "cowboy" cops (as we call them) and THAT is NOT a good thing.

It is becoming like the wild, wild west out on our streets.

I'm not debating, or putting down your post, just stating my opinion & personal experience.

I continue to wish the very best for BadJuJu, however we really don't know what happened in her son's case.

Thank you for a respecful response.

[ruger]

Clear up for me the process...

After Grand Jury indictment does it immediately get referred to a court date, or referred to DA for charging..??


bear

The Indictment (True Bill) returned by the Grand Jury IS the DA's charge. Consequently - he will be Arraigned and the case will proceed as with any other Trial .........

I am feeling so sad for my friend.:sad:

[ruger]

While I agree police misconduct is a reality in today's world, I know that false claims of police misconduct is just as big of a problem. This officer has not been convicted of anything yet so I am not going to assume he is guilty of anything.

And, Thank You, warhorse ....... JuJu and her son need our prayers.

[ruger]

So is criminal misconduct....I'd tend to side with the officer over a criminal, but that is just me, I guess. IMO

:thumbsup:

[ruger]

I continue to wish the very best for BadJuJu, however we really don't know what happened in her son's case.

Thank you for a respecful response.

You're welcome, HolyMoly .... I try very hard to respect all viewpoints.

[Shells2]

.


One of the reasons I think police should have video and audio recorders on them at all times. Not just to catch the bad cops, but to protect the good ones from false accusations.

I think there was video available in this case, if the links are correct. And I agree, video and audio would be a great tool for police.

[Details]

I hesitate to respond to your post, but will preface by stating that my response is in no way intended to suggest any wrongdoing on the part of the son of the originating poster.

I am also opposed to any false claims against police officers, but also by police officers. In either case the damage done to the innocent party and their family members is devastation and injury that lasts a lifetime.

It goes both ways:
...Yep - I do know - when cops are bad, they are really awful, and need to be caught. But on the whole, I think it's more likely to be the criminal lying than the cop.

I trust the justice system to a fair degree, to sort this out. The grand jury went for the charges - but as they say, the grand jury would indict a ham sandwich - that's a pretty low bar. Hopefully the court case will move along well, and the jurors will see whatever the truth is.

[HolyMoly]

Yep - I do know - when cops are bad, they are really awful, and need to be caught. But on the whole, I think it's more likely to be the criminal lying than the cop.

I trust the justice system to a fair degree, to sort this out. The grand jury went for the charges - but as they say, the grand jury would indict a ham sandwich - that's a pretty low bar. Hopefully the court case will move along well, and the jurors will see whatever the truth is.



Well.. there you have it. I agree.
:smile:

[Details]

Well.. there you have it. I agree.
:smile:Hoping for the truth to be out is always an easy thing to agree on. :thumbup:

[doctor_J]

I certainly don't know if Juju's son is quilty of anything at this point. I hope and trust that the truth will come out at trial. Regardless, Juju is doubtless going thru hell and needs all the prayers and good wishes we can send. Her holiday is ruined with worry.

A few things stood out to me in the links. The perpertrator alledging brutality is himself a brute, a thug, a career criminal and a menace to decent society. He ran from the cops and now he's trying to say he feared them. Very, very tired, threadworn excuse. He ran for the same reason all crackhead thieves run--he didn't want to go to jail, detox behind bars, etc. The other thing that stood out was that the "community activists" immediately and loudly threw down the race card. It's Louisiana so the cops MUST be rascist. Nevermind that the criminals being apprehended are actually black and have long violent criminal histories. I never understand that mentality since I know that black folks want to be protected from crime just like anyone else.

Lastly, there was a chase. I have some leniency for cops after a chase. There's a lot a adrenaline and real life threatening danger involved. OFcourse, they cannot be allowed to go "all Rodney King" on anyone, but a lack of gentility is understandable. If a perp is so determined to escape or so out of his mind on drugs as to run from the cops, knowing as they do that this will greatly increase charges, then they are far more likely to shoot or stab or otherwise injure the officer. They should be reminded regularly that they can only use necessary force, regardless of the danger. If they can't handle their emotions, it's not the job for them. I wouldn't want it but I want good people to be doing it.

I'm still disturbed by the son's resignation. One other is on administrative leave and the other is working as a deputy sheriff. I hope he just couldn't take the politics anymore. Seems to me like the perp's injuries were not serious enough to bring criminal charges. Seems like losing his job would cover a lot of punishment, especially since he has many years of hard work invested as a lieutenant. It's very sad in this economy to lose a career. I see this has been going on for nearly a year. What terrible stress for the family. Most likely much more stress than the family of the non-working criminal with no permanent injuries. Bet they're looking forward to a big civil settlement and the criminal won't have to steal again for weeks.

Whether he is innocent (which is my assumption till more is known) or guilty of misconduct, If I could do something supportive for Juju, I would. As the mother of an only son, this story breaks my heart

UGH.

[HolyMoly]

Nice post doctor J. I think all of us, regardless of our various philosophies, offer our support and prayers to JuJu at such a difficult time in her life.

[ruger]

I certainly don't know if Juju's son is quilty of anything at this point. I hope and trust that the truth will come out at trial. Regardless, Juju is doubtless going thru hell and needs all the prayers and good wishes we can send. Her holiday is ruined with worry.

A few things stood out to me in the links. The perpertrator alledging brutality is himself a brute, a thug, a career criminal and a menace to decent society. He ran from the cops and now he's trying to say he feared them. Very, very tired, threadworn excuse. He ran for the same reason all crackhead thieves run--he didn't want to go to jail, detox behind bars, etc. The other thing that stood out was that the "community activists" immediately and loudly threw down the race card. It's Louisiana so the cops MUST be rascist. Nevermind that the criminals being apprehended are actually black and have long violent criminal histories. I never understand that mentality since I know that black folks want to be protected from crime just like anyone else.

Lastly, there was a chase. I have some leniency for cops after a chase. There's a lot a adrenaline and real life threatening danger involved. OFcourse, they cannot be allowed to go "all Rodney King" on anyone, but a lack of gentility is understandable. If a perp is so determined to escape or so out of his mind on drugs as to run from the cops, knowing as they do that this will greatly increase charges, then they are far more likely to shoot or stab or otherwise injure the officer. They should be reminded regularly that they can only use necessary force, regardless of the danger. If they can't handle their emotions, it's not the job for them. I wouldn't want it but I want good people to be doing it.

I'm still disturbed by the son's resignation. One other is on administrative leave and the other is working as a deputy sheriff. I hope he just couldn't take the politics anymore. Seems to me like the perp's injuries were not serious enough to bring criminal charges. Seems like losing his job would cover a lot of punishment, especially since he has many years of hard work invested as a lieutenant. It's very sad in this economy to lose a career. I see this has been going on for nearly a year. What terrible stress for the family. Most likely much more stress than the family of the non-working criminal with no permanent injuries. Bet they're looking forward to a big civil settlement and the criminal won't have to steal again for weeks.

Whether he is innocent (which is my assumption till more is known) or guilty of misconduct, If I could do something supportive for Juju, I would. As the mother of an only son, this story breaks my heart

UGH.

Post of the Day doctor J

You posted exactly what is in my heart, and did so - much better than I.

[MaybytheBay]

Nice post doctor J. I think all of us, regardless of our various philosophies, offer our support and prayers to JuJu at such a difficult time in her life.


Absolutely.

[doctor_J]

Thanks ruger and Holy. I've been very disturbed since Juju first mentioned this story weeks ago.

Regardless of the outcome, 3 NON-FELONIOUS, taxpaying, head of households have their job and reputations at extreme risk due to the actions of a career criminal who contributes nothing useful to society and in fact, is a drain on limited state and federal resources. Three families have their holidays ruined now and possibly for many years to come because One worthless piece of human flotsam decided to break and enter, steal and do drugs. The career criminal mentioned has no history of ever doing an honest day's work but a long history of leaving mayhem in his wake and a long list of victims, not the least of which is the taxpayer.

Did the officers have a lapse of judgment and slug him? Are the officers actually criminal thugs themselves masquerading as peace officers? Are law officers in La. secret hood wearing racists who abuse black people? Or, did a momentary lapse of judgment occur as a result of a prolonged surge of adrenaline and the innate sense of self-preservation?

We'll have to wait and see. For right now, I see a man who has never committed a crime and has spent many years serving and protecting the public and providing for his family who is facing unemployment and ruination due to the actions of a thug who is a parasite on society. The perp is whole. He can continue to use drugs and continue his career in thievery just like nothing happened. No mention of life threatening or permanent injuries. Although I'm sure he'll claim PTSD (once some defense attorney tells him about it) and all sorts of aches and pains and mental disabilities. But three good families are in tatters.

I guess my crime-hatred and disgust for criminals is showing.

Again, UGH.

[Bad JuJu]

***************************************

Thanks for replying. I somehow thought that having a Grand Jury referral would automatically negate the requirement for a preliminary hearing.

The arraignment, which is next, includes the lawyer you mentioned.

At that time, the DA decides which charges, if any, will be brought.

Deal making and pressure to plead to lesser charges occurs then, and actually all the way to trial.

You mentioned "former" enforcement officer. Has he been placed on administrative leave, or has he left the department..??

Are all the defendants going to be tried together..??

Any chance of a separate deal being cut by one of the defendants..??

Has a civil suit been filed..??

Interesting topic and I hope all works out for your son.


bear

Long long story, but my son is a former officer because he resigned after being put on admin leave. Now, when he wrote his letter of resignation, he was careful to say that his resignation was not to be considered or otherwise construed as admission of guilt.
The reason he quit actually was because they had of course taken his patrol car from him at that time, and it was the only means of transportation. So, he resigned and collected his retirement pay, with which he was able to purchase a vehicle for himself.

[Bad JuJu]

I certainly don't know if Juju's son is quilty of anything at this point. I hope and trust that the truth will come out at trial. Regardless, Juju is doubtless going thru hell and needs all the prayers and good wishes we can send. Her holiday is ruined with worry.

A few things stood out to me in the links. The perpertrator alledging brutality is himself a brute, a thug, a career criminal and a menace to decent society. He ran from the cops and now he's trying to say he feared them. Very, very tired, threadworn excuse. He ran for the same reason all crackhead thieves run--he didn't want to go to jail, detox behind bars, etc. The other thing that stood out was that the "community activists" immediately and loudly threw down the race card. It's Louisiana so the cops MUST be rascist. Nevermind that the criminals being apprehended are actually black and have long violent criminal histories. I never understand that mentality since I know that black folks want to be protected from crime just like anyone else.

Lastly, there was a chase. I have some leniency for cops after a chase. There's a lot a adrenaline and real life threatening danger involved. OFcourse, they cannot be allowed to go "all Rodney King" on anyone, but a lack of gentility is understandable. If a perp is so determined to escape or so out of his mind on drugs as to run from the cops, knowing as they do that this will greatly increase charges, then they are far more likely to shoot or stab or otherwise injure the officer. They should be reminded regularly that they can only use necessary force, regardless of the danger. If they can't handle their emotions, it's not the job for them. I wouldn't want it but I want good people to be doing it.

I'm still disturbed by the son's resignation. One other is on administrative leave and the other is working as a deputy sheriff. I hope he just couldn't take the politics anymore. Seems to me like the perp's injuries were not serious enough to bring criminal charges. Seems like losing his job would cover a lot of punishment, especially since he has many years of hard work invested as a lieutenant. It's very sad in this economy to lose a career. I see this has been going on for nearly a year. What terrible stress for the family. Most likely much more stress than the family of the non-working criminal with no permanent injuries. Bet they're looking forward to a big civil settlement and the criminal won't have to steal again for weeks.

Whether he is innocent (which is my assumption till more is known) or guilty of misconduct, If I could do something supportive for Juju, I would. As the mother of an only son, this story breaks my heart

UGH.

God bless you for this post.

[Bad JuJu]

I'm sorry you are going through this BadJuJu... Having your heart broken by your son's actions can not be an easy thing to go through. My thoughts are with you and your family. Please keep us posted on the progress...

Just so you know, my heart is not broken by my son's actions.

[aproudmom]

I will keep you both in my prayers

[FoxySly]

False claims are, IMO, far more common - since on one side you have criminals with nothing to lose by a lie, and on the other side you have a police officer with a career and a good record.

One of my favorites was one where a suspect in a holding cell called the officers over to report police brutality, showing how he had all these bruises from the arresting officer. Unfortunately for the suspect - the cell had a camera on it. And the camera had recorded him running himself into the bunk and hitting himself to create the bruises.


One of the reasons I think police should have video and audio recorders on them at all times. Not just to catch the bad cops, but to protect the good ones from false accusations.

Yup, I've seen a bunch of videos where the perp is banging their heads until bloody on the windows of the cop car or in holding cells ect & then yelling police brutality.

I am very glad LE has cameras now for all innocent ones LE or civilian.

And yup, there are some very bad LE, I just watched a 'Forensic Files' show on a sheriff in Monroe http://www.ergogenics.org/26.html

I always want justice for who ever is innocent.

Juju, of course you don't have to answer but I was wondering if a long time ago you went by hummer?

Hoping for justice,
Sly

~

[Bad JuJu]

Yup, I've seen a bunch of videos where the perp is banging their heads until bloody on the windows of the cop car or in holding cells ect & then yelling police brutality.

I am very glad LE has cameras now for all innocent ones LE or civilian.

And yup, there are some very bad LE, I just watched a 'Forensic Files' show on a sheriff in Monroe http://www.ergogenics.org/26.html

I always want justice for who ever is innocent.

Juju, of course you don't have to answer but I was wondering if a long time ago you went by hummer?

Hoping for justice,
Sly

~

Yes, I was hummie or hummer or hummerisme.
Now, as I understand it, there was a video, but the first word about it was that it was too dark to tell anything. When my son asked to see it, they were not forthcoming.

[FoxySly]

Yes, I was hummie or hummer or hummerisme.
Now, as I understand it, there was a video, but the first word about it was that it was too dark to tell anything. When my son asked to see it, they were not forthcoming.


I've read this thread but I can't remember if he has a lawyer yet. Even if he don't he will & the lawyer will be able to get everything (I hope, I know of sad bad cases where important stuff was hidden).

Years ago I was facing 20 to life on each of 6 charges, & there were 6 other lesser charges. I didn't have a lot of cash money but had property worth a lot but didn't think I should have to use that to pay for trumpet up charges (there are very bad cops in my old hometown) so I was assigned a public defense attorney, this was in Clark Co., NV.

My PD ROCKED it took 13 court dates 12 of which they kept offering me pleas, the last one was to drop all charges if I'd plead guilty to disturbing the peace, shocked still I said no, I told them that I'm ready for trial just as I had to all their other plea deals.
My understanding is even if I took a plea to disturbing the peace it would always show up that I had all these untruthful charges & took a plea.

At the 12th court hearing all charges were dropped never going to trial & Judge Mosley, known as the hanging judge in Nevada, was really upset with them by now.
The 13th court date Judge Mosley ordered the return of my property, a Browning Baby & a pipe.

I can't remember what it is called but everything (discovery evidence IIRC) against the one who is charged HAS TO BE TURNED OVER to their defense. My PD gave me copies of everything he was given which I went through throughly, made notes & such for my PD trying to help all I could.

Also, the county attorney, during the preliminary hearing, was not smart enough (thankfully) to abject when my PD asked if the one I was accused of shooting at had ever been convicted of a felony, I knew about one but found out there were in fact two.
Now we would be able to use that when we went to trial. This guy has a long record.

I had been arrested once years before this & it also concerned this same guy. He cut himself with the machete he had been holding at my throat during a struggle & said I cut the inside of his hand.
And the law states if there are injuries & one accuses the other they go to jail until things are sorted out.
I didn't have to go to court for that one, as it was thrown out, the charge dropped. They are very good sheriffs here in Nye County, actually one of my reasons for moving back.

It's true that justice is not alway rendered, thankfully it finally was in my case but it took a lot & even with a PD it was expensive, plus over two years knowing I could be spending the rest of my life in a cell for something I didn't do always on my mind.
I prayed to/for Justice a lot & never backed down taking a plea to something I was not guilty of just because it would have been easier.

I typed all of this to let you know I do honestly know what it is like to be charged for something when it should have been the other way around. I just lit my Justice candle for your cause. And hope you keep us informed.

Sly

~

[Details]

Public defenders can be quite good. Like anything else, we hear the horror stories of the good ones - just like we hear the horror stories of the bad ones - but by and large, they're the defense attorneys I most respect - they're doing a job, representing everyone, not just those who can pay.

[Bad JuJu]

Nothing new to report...I am here to just ask you to keep praying for my boy. It's gonna be a long hard road.
I hope each and everyone one of you had a sweet Christmas. I know that so many are suffering in so many ways, I almost feel bad asking for prayers for my son, but a mother's heart keeps reaching out ...I ask God's blessing be upon each of you and your families.

[Humdinger]

Nothing new to report...I am here to just ask you to keep praying for my boy. It's gonna be a long hard road.
I hope each and everyone one of you had a sweet Christmas. I know that so many are suffering in so many ways, I almost feel bad asking for prayers for my son, but a mother's heart keeps reaching out ...I ask God's blessing be upon each of you and your families.

I will pray that true justice is found in your son's case, JuJu.

I'm not implying that your son is guilty of a thing, so don't misinterpret, but times like this should also serve everyone who ever blamed, shunned or made mockery of a parent's nightmare when their offspring is either accused, or found guilty of a crime.

Scott Peterson's parents come to mind, in fact.

[Details]

I will pray that true justice is found in your son's case, JuJu.

I'm not implying that your son is guilty of a thing, so don't misinterpret, but times like this should also serve everyone who ever blamed, shunned or made mockery of a parent's nightmare when their offspring is either accused, or found guilty of a crime.

Scott Peterson's parents come to mind, in fact.Unless Bad Juju is busy helping her son flee justice, attacking the victim's family, and trying to claim posessions that are not hers - there is no relation between her and SP's family. Most families get through with some degree of grace - even when they cannot believe their loved one guilty - and they are not attacked, blamed, nor shunned. Just as Bad Juju is not, since she's never given a hint of hoping for anything but justice, nor attacked anyone.

[Humdinger]

Unless Bad Juju is busy helping her son flee justice, attacking the victim's family, and trying to claim posessions that are not hers - there is no relation between her and SP's family. Most families get through with some degree of grace - even when they cannot believe their loved one guilty - and they are not attacked, blamed, nor shunned. Just as Bad Juju is not, since she's never given a hint of hoping for anything but justice, nor attacked anyone.

The "relation between her and SP's family", (or any other mother), is that both are grief-stricken mothers with hearts strongly bonded to, and aching for, their accused child.

I didn't make mention of anything more than that similarity.

The point is, only until one walks in the exact shoes of a grieving, distraught parent can you even begin to experience the heartache that it brings, and until that happens, how quickly we are at times to harshly judge.

[Details]

The "relation between her and SP's family", (or any other mother), is that both are grief-stricken mothers with hearts strongly bonded to, and aching for, their accused child.

I didn't make mention of anything more than that similarity.

The point is, only until one walks in the exact shoes of a grieving, distraught parent can you even begin to experience the heartache that it brings, and until that happens, how quickly we are at times to harshly judge.Which grieving distraught parent - the ones that SP's parents were hurting? That's the ones I feel for - they've lost their child forever.

Sorry - I know I shouldn't reply to this diversion - but there's no resemblance between the overwhelming majority of grieving families who do NOT attack others, attempt to help their child escape justice, and the very, very, very few who do. And BadJuJu is NOT a tool to use to make your point.

[Bad JuJu]

Which grieving distraught parent - the ones that SP's parents were hurting? That's the ones I feel for - they've lost their child forever.

Sorry - I know I shouldn't reply to this diversion - but there's no resemblance between the overwhelming majority of grieving families who do NOT attack others, attempt to help their child escape justice, and the very, very, very few who do. And BadJuJu is NOT a tool to use to make your point.
Thank you Details...you are very gracious.

[Humdinger]

snip

And BadJuJu is NOT a tool to use to make your point.

No one but you is using BadJuJu as a tool, as I have made no mention of detailed similarities other than the obvious fact that she has now found herself to be a grieving, distraught parent with a child accused.

I am not sure why you continue to do so, when I in fact clearly stated the real issue of my post -



The point is, only until one walks in the exact shoes of a grieving, distraught parent can you even begin to experience the heartache that it brings, and until that happens, how quickly we are at times to harshly judge.

[Patriot]

Nothing new to report...I am here to just ask you to keep praying for my boy. It's gonna be a long hard road.
I hope each and everyone one of you had a sweet Christmas. I know that so many are suffering in so many ways, I almost feel bad asking for prayers for my son, but a mother's heart keeps reaching out ...I ask God's blessing be upon each of you and your families.
Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers , Bad JuJu. (hugs)

[Bad JuJu]

I AM grieving and I AM distraught and all I ask is heartfelt prayers for my boy and the entire situation. This has ruined his life. He has never gotten so much as a speeding ticket...ever. In these accusations, there wasn't even blood drawn...nothing but disgruntled people bound and determined to do wrong and cause trouble for those who have tried to uphold the laws of the land for little or no recompense. It's a travesty, and I have absolutely no confidence in this crooked justice system as I have seen the criminals walk away unscathed too many times.

[Bad JuJu]

Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers , Bad JuJu. (hugs)

Thank you Patriot...much appreciated.

[Bad JuJu]

Please have faith BadJuJu. We all are thinking about you, and praying too. God is watching after you and your son.

(((((BadJuJu))))
I'm trying to have faith...I really am. Thank you so much AdverseParty for your kind words.

[2Hope4]

JuJu, I don't even know what to say. I've read your post, and offered up prayers several times. I can't imagine the heartbreak, and how helpless you are feeling right now. As a mother, when something is wrong, we want to make it right, when our child is hurting, we want to make the pain stop, when they scared, we want to comfort and calm them.... and yet, in situations such as this, what we want to do, we can't. I offer up prayers for you as well. I just can't imagine.


Huge huggles! :wub:

[Jayne]

Clear up for me the process...

After Grand Jury indictment does it immediately get referred to a court date, or referred to DA for charging..??


bear

Catching up...from a different state's experience...but where I worked...it went to the DA for charge..and almost immediately to Arraignment. In that state's law..there were very few hours to get it to court..or you lose it. I know.

Don't know the process in this state.

jmo

J

[FoxySly]

~

Has there been any updates?

Sly

~

[grammie/va]

~

Has there been any updates?

Sly

~

I was wondering the same thing, Is there any updates or news to report?

[birdwatch]

I was wondering the same thing, Is there any updates or news to report? Bad Ju Ju hasn't posted anywhere on the board since 1/06. Think it was something we said??? Surely something has happened. Wish we knew. Praying for her and for her son.