12/1/09 to

[cynical]

Not sure if I can start a new thread, sorry if I was not supposed to.

Is there any news in this case?

When is the next court date for either brother?

[GentleBreeze]

Not sure if I can start a new thread, sorry if I was not supposed to.

Is there any news in this case?

When is the next court date for either brother?

I really don't know. All I know is there is to be hearings in the next few weeks but I haven't heard of a specific date.

imo

[happygert]

Some very interesting news today... Remember sheriff saying all 133 pieces of evidence had been tested? They said they had five people working on this and dna testing was done cause this was those 5 people main priorities?well guess what folks thats not true.

[happygert]

LINCOLN -- A tube of antibiotic ointment, shoes and a tire iron are among the items prosecutors want to submit for DNA testing in the case of two brothers accused of killing five members of the Gee family in September at the family's home in Beason.

In two motions filed in the murder cases against Christopher J. Harris and Jason L. Harris, the state asked permission to move forward with the testing that could consume the items of evidence. A hearing on the motions is scheduled for Thursday.

The Harris brothers, both of Armington, each face more than 50 counts of murder and additional charges of armed robbery, residential burglary and home invasion related to the Sept. 21 discovery of Rick and Ruth Gee and three of their children.

They also are accused of the attempted sexual assault of 16-year-old victim Justina Constant and attempted murder of Tabitha Gee, now 4, who was the sole survivor of the attack.

In all, the state wants to perform testing on more than 25 pieces of evidence.

The motions disclosed that the tire iron -- believed to be the weapon used to bludgeon the family -- was found in a muddy location about a mile from Jason Harris' home in Armington. Stains on a pair of size 11 tennis shoes found in the same location also are among the items of evidence.

A second pair of shoes recovered near the front door of Jason Harris' home also may be tested.

Several pieces of evidence may point to the violent struggle police described early on in their investigation. Fingernail scrapings from the victims, for example, could be linked to defensive struggles.

The state also wants to examine material observed on the outside of a tube of antibiotic ointment found on the dining room table in the home of Nicole Gee, the daughter of Rick Gee who was once married to Chris Harris. The ointment is commonly used to treat scrapes and burns.

Swabs collected from a computer allegedly taken during the incident and swabs from Chris Harris' Ford Ranger pick-up and several locations in the Gee home also are on the evidence list.

Defense attorneys for the brothers have asked that no DNA testing that would consume evidence be performed without their knowledge. An expert for the defense may be on hand for the testing.

In addition to the Harris brothers, two women charged with obstruction of justice area accused of providing a false alibi for Chris Harris. Jennifer Earnest, the girlfriend of Jason Harris, and her mother, Sara Duncan, were released on bond and are staying in Duncan's Sarasota, Fla., home while charges are pending.

[happygert]

Sharing is caring.. wanna share?:biggrin:
Oh, hi gert...

Hi Deannalynn, looks like the good sheriff of logan county was doing a little fibbing.. Just like Chris truck mostly matches the description of the truck that was seen that night. But heck maybe the dna mostly matches too..."shrugging shoulders"....:shrug:

[happygert]

Did they not get dna from 133 items already way back in September?
:confused:

Well they said they did. But not by the looks of the motions if they are asking for these items to be tested now... Umm wonder why they lied about having them back.

[happygert]

what happened and where did this come from?

Oh they reported it in paper today. That the DA's office filed a motion to do some dna testing and they may use all it up. so then defense would have none to test....They hear motion Thursday. There also 25 items they want to test... How can they have these items now to test if before the arrest they were already supposed to be done with there testing?

[happygert]

It also states they want to test finger nail scrappings . Well wouldn't you think if there was a murder and there was scrappings under the victims nail that would be the first thing you check for dna?.

[happygert]

If they did no testing way back then what was the arrests based on. I'm confused but then it's been so long..Do you remember ? help me out here...Someone..:blink:

Well I guess its based on Chris's truck mostly matches the description of the truck that was seen in Beason. After all it is a Ford Ranger..

They sure led everyone to believe they were faster then QUENTICO getting the DNA testing back. Guess they fibbed..

[happygert]

This coming Thursday the 3rd? Who filed the motions? Defense I take it..

DA'S office filed so they could use up whats there to test so if they test it wont be any for defense to test.........ot oh....

[Details]

If they did no testing way back then what was the arrests based on. I'm confused but then it's been so long..Do you remember ? help me out here...Someone..:blink:I don't follow this closely - but this seems like a false dichotomy here.

There's no reason the statements:

We tested 133 items for DNA
Arrests were based on DNA evidence from them
We want to test 25 items for DNA

are necessarily exclusive.


They may have tested the 133 items they could test without any destruction earlier, the arrests were based on that data, and now that they have defense lawyers to talk with, they want to test ANOTHER 25 items in addition - items where the test will unfortunately use up the item in question or the evidence in question.

Like I said - I don't know the case - but it seems like there's an assumption here (that there are only 133 pieces of evidence to be tested) that may not be true.

[Details]

It also states they want to test finger nail scrappings . Well wouldn't you think if there was a murder and there was scrappings under the victims nail that would be the first thing you check for dna?.Did they say victim's nail scrapings? Or is it from the suspects they arrested? Could be from the victims, but a second test as well.

[happygert]

I don't follow this closely - but this seems like a false dichotomy here.

There's no reason the statements:

We tested 133 items for DNA
Arrests were based on DNA evidence from them
We want to test 25 items for DNA

are necessarily exclusive.


They may have tested the 133 items they could test without any destruction earlier, the arrests were based on that data, and now that they have defense lawyers to talk with, they want to test ANOTHER 25 items in addition - items where the test will unfortunately use up the item in question or the evidence in question.

Like I said - I don't know the case - but it seems like there's an assumption here (that there are only 133 pieces of evidence to be tested) that may not be true.

well if its not true they should have not stated that they collected 133 items of evidence and tested them.. So I guess they flat out lied!

They said they based the arrests of the Harris boys on those 133 pieces of evidence that was tested.

So which is did they test those 133 pieces of evidence and get them back faster then QUENTICO or didn't they?

[happygert]

Did they say victim's nail scrapings? Or is it from the suspects they arrested? Could be from the victims, but a second test as well.

From Victims... Wouldnt you think that evdience would be the first you would test? I sure would.. but hey thats Logan County for you

Several pieces of evidence may point to the violent struggle police described early on in their investigation. Fingernail scrapings from the victims, for example, could be linked to defensive struggles.

[happygert]

The defense attorney requested no DNA testing or consumed unless he is present.

This is the first report that was written for the public in weeks. It says a lot.


Yes , and I Think thats a good idea for the defense.

ITA. I think it says a whole lot

[GentleBreeze]

well if its not true they should have not stated that they collected 133 items of evidence and tested them.. So I guess they flat out lied!

They said they based the arrests of the Harris boys on those 133 pieces of evidence that was tested.

So which is did they test those 133 pieces of evidence and get them back faster then QUENTICO or didn't they?

I don't remember it that way. Yes they did collect that many items to test but I never saw where they said they had all the results back right away. They did say from what was tested quickly and sent back quickly led them to make the arrest. Iirc it was a preliminary lab result which Nichols said he was pleased with the results.

They would only needed one or two things back at the time of arrest. Especially if they found a bloody fingerprint or fingerprints inside of the dwelling that belonged to the suspect or some other dna evidence. They sure wouldn't need all 133 pieces to be back to make an arrest.

It was on the ISP website what they did. Do we still have a link to that site?

imo

[Details]

well if its not true they should have not stated that they collected 133 items of evidence and tested them.. So I guess they flat out lied!

They said they based the arrests of the Harris boys on those 133 pieces of evidence that was tested.

So which is did they test those 133 pieces of evidence and get them back faster then QUENTICO or didn't they?You're back into that false dichotomy again.

Here is a very possible scenario, that does not include lies.

They collected 133 items of evidence, and tested them.
Then, they had ANOTHER 25 pieces of evidence (and really, 158 pieces of evidence for a case of this size is still quite small), that also need testing.

See? That's what I'm saying about a false dichotomy. ONLY if you assume there were only 133 pieces of evidence, and that they never ever found any more evidence to test, are they lying.

ETA: And if what GentleBreeze is saying is correct, they may not have even said what you claim they did say.

[GentleBreeze]

The defense attorney requested no DNA testing or consumed unless he is present.

This is the first report that was written for the public in weeks. It says a lot.

Yes that is standard. If the dna sample is small where the testing can use it all up then the defense attorney has a right to be there to witness how it is done. I imagine they will still request things to test. I have seen request for further evidence to be tested.... even right up close to trial time.

I saw a cold case that was solved when they found two drops of the victim's blood on the perps tennis shoe.

[Details]

Yes , and I Think thats a good idea for the defense.

ITA. I think it says a whole lotSays more about defense attorneys, IMO. Anything to impede or delay is fairly SOP.

[happygert]

I don't remember it that way. Yes they did collect that many items to test but I never saw where they said they had all the results back right away. They did say from what was tested quickly and sent back quickly led them to make the arrest. Iirc it was a preliminary lab result which Nichols said he was pleased with the results.

They would only needed one or two things back at the time of arrest. Especially if they found a bloody fingerprint or fingerprints inside of the dwelling that belonged to the suspect or some other dna evidence. They sure wouldn't need all 133 pieces to be back to make an arrest.

It was on the ISP website what they did. Do we still have a link to that site?

imo


Well IMO nicholes led everyone to believe they had all items tested and they all pointed to the Harris boys.... Very odd they didnt test the scrapping under the victims fingernails first. Why would they only need one of two items back? nicholes stated they have 5 people working and the testing around the clock. If they only needed one or two items then why did they need all these people working around the clock.

Whos to say there wasn't more involved in these murders?

Why wasnt the finger nail scrappings from victims been the first items tested?

[happygert]

Says more about defense attorneys, IMO. Anything to impede or delay is fairly SOP.

OH OK blame it on defense when sheriff nicholes already stated based on dna testing that we have done on 133 items we have arrested the Harris boys.. OK blame the defense for the da's office and sheriff lying about what was tested.

[Details]

Well IMO nicholes led everyone to believe they had all items tested and they all pointed to the Harris boys.... Very odd they didnt test the scrapping under the victims fingernails first. Why would they only need one of two items back? nicholes stated they have 5 people working and the testing around the clock. If they only needed one or two items then why did they need all these people working around the clock.

Whos to say there wasn't more involved in these murders?

Why wasnt the finger nail scrappings from victims been the first items tested?We don't know if they were or were not. One possible reason for them not to be tested (IF they were not - which you have not remotely proven - doing more testing is just as possible) would be defense attorney issues, since a sample that small likely would have to be destroyed in testing - it'd be a one time test. No reason to give an appeals issue by doing destructive testing of key evidence.

But we don't know at all that they weren't the first items tested. There are also many varieties of DNA testing that can be done, some more destructive than others, with varying degrees of accuracy. Since even the least accurate will pinpoint a person to within 1 of thousands or more, it's plenty for an arrest.

[GentleBreeze]

Well IMO nicholes led everyone to believe they had all items tested and they all pointed to the Harris boys.... Very odd they didn't test the scrapping under the victims fingernails first. Why would they only need one of two items back? nicholes stated they have 5 people working and the testing around the clock. If they only needed one or two items then why did they need all these people working around the clock.

Whos to say there wasn't more involved in these murders?

Why wasn't the finger nail scrapings from victims been the first items tested?

Well you cant say everyone gert because I never once thought such thing. I knew they did not have all the results back but they had what they needed back in 3-4 days to make the arrest.

I went to the ISP site but I guess they have removed the notice now but Nichols didn't say anything. What was done was put out by the ISP Major Case Squad investigators and what they did and they listed how many forensic scientists they have assigned to the case and how the expediting and cooperation of all law enforcement agencies brought this case to an arrest so that the citizens could feel safe in their community again.

There is much better forensic evidence than fingernail scrapings. Usually they are degraded and many times a dna profile cannot be gleamed from the results.

imo

[Details]

OH OK blame it on defense when sheriff nicholes already stated based on dna testing that we have done on 133 items we have arrested the Harris boys.. OK blame the defense for the da's office and sheriff lying about what was tested.Link?

I've only seen your word for that statement, and others say that statement you claim was made was never made.

Yep, I'll look to the defense, because they've a long history of this type of thing. No one is ever guilty, the testing is always at fault, must be the lab that was sloppy, no matter how much evidence there is. I can be convinced by a rational defense - but a bunch of what ifs, and rumors, and conspiracy theories - I've heard them too many times, in too many cases to remotely buy into it.

[happygert]

We don't know if they were or were not. One possible reason for them not to be tested (IF they were not - which you have not remotely proven - doing more testing is just as possible) would be defense attorney issues, since a sample that small likely would have to be destroyed in testing - it'd be a one time test. No reason to give an appeals issue by doing destructive testing of key evidence.

But we don't know at all that they weren't the first items tested. There are also many varieties of DNA testing that can be done, some more destructive than others, with varying degrees of accuracy. Since even the least accurate will pinpoint a person to within 1 of thousands or more, it's plenty for an arrest.

Well then I guess nicholes SHOULD NOT have said they were and out and out lied about them being tested an being back.

I was wondering how ISP was faster then QUENITCO with its testing... Guess I know how now.

[GentleBreeze]

OH OK blame it on defense when sheriff nicholes already stated based on dna testing that we have done on 133 items we have arrested the Harris boys.. OK blame the defense for the da's office and sheriff lying about what was tested.

Here ya go!


http://www.isp.state.il.us/media/pressdetails.cfm?ID=476

Released: October 13, 2009

Christopher J. Harris, 30, was arrested just after 4:00 p.m., Thursday, October 1, for the murders of five members of the Gee family by a multi-agency task force. Subsequently, three additional arrests have been made in connection to the murders. The task force was comprised of personnel from the Logan County Sheriff's Department, Lincoln Police Department, Illinois State Police (ISP), Logan County State's Attorney's Office, Illinois Attorney General's Office, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
“The arrests in this tragic event were a result of the great police work performed by the members of the task force," said State Police Director Jonathon Monken. “This investigation highlights the resources and expertise the Illinois State Police has to offer during a major incident such as this."

The Illinois State Police was notified of the incident at approximately 4:30 p.m. on Monday, September 21, with Crime Scene Investigators (CSIs) arriving at the Gee residence in Beason at 5:45 p.m. Six CSIs, travelling from as far as Rockford, East Moline, and Charleston, worked more than 138 hours during the initial investigation. The Illinois State Police also provided 17 Special Agents from six of the seven Investigative Zones, five Intelligence Analysts, and four Zone Intelligence Officers. Personnel also travelled from nearly every corner of the state to provide manpower for the task force. Air Operations also assisted by providing aerial photos of the scene.

During the early stages of the investigation, 133 items of evidence were submitted to the ISP Forensic Science Laboratory for analysis. Five Forensic Scientists have been dedicated solely to analyzing items collected from the Beason scene and have been working to provide results on the most probative evidence. ISP Forensic Scientists received the evidence on September 29 and were able to analyze enough evidence in two days resulting in the arrest of Christopher Harris. In order to aid the ongoing investigation, results on the highest priority exhibits continue to be communicated to Investigators as soon as they are available.

The ISP continues to further develop this surge concept for use in significant and/or catastrophic incidents such as this case. Dependent upon case criteria and circumstances, deployment of the Major Case Squad may be implemented anywhere throughout Illinois. Rapid deployment of this team of highly-trained and experienced experts provides the very best opportunity to solving crimes and restoring safety within our communities.

[happygert]

Link?

I've only seen your word for that statement, and others say that statement you claim was made was never made.

Yep, I'll look to the defense, because they've a long history of this type of thing. No one is ever guilty, the testing is always at fault, must be the lab that was sloppy, no matter how much evidence there is. I can be convinced by a rational defense - but a bunch of what ifs, and rumors, and conspiracy theories - I've heard them too many times, in too many cases to remotely buy into it.

OK NO ONES ever guilty... But its a 2 way street no ones ever innocent once the cops and da's have there sites on someone....

[happygert]

Here ya go!


http://www.isp.state.il.us/media/pressdetails.cfm?ID=476

Released: October 13, 2009

Christopher J. Harris, 30, was arrested just after 4:00 p.m., Thursday, October 1, for the murders of five members of the Gee family by a multi-agency task force. Subsequently, three additional arrests have been made in connection to the murders. The task force was comprised of personnel from the Logan County Sheriff's Department, Lincoln Police Department, Illinois State Police (ISP), Logan County State's Attorney's Office, Illinois Attorney General's Office, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
“The arrests in this tragic event were a result of the great police work performed by the members of the task force," said State Police Director Jonathon Monken. “This investigation highlights the resources and expertise the Illinois State Police has to offer during a major incident such as this."

The Illinois State Police was notified of the incident at approximately 4:30 p.m. on Monday, September 21, with Crime Scene Investigators (CSIs) arriving at the Gee residence in Beason at 5:45 p.m. Six CSIs, travelling from as far as Rockford, East Moline, and Charleston, worked more than 138 hours during the initial investigation. The Illinois State Police also provided 17 Special Agents from six of the seven Investigative Zones, five Intelligence Analysts, and four Zone Intelligence Officers. Personnel also travelled from nearly every corner of the state to provide manpower for the task force. Air Operations also assisted by providing aerial photos of the scene.

During the early stages of the investigation, 133 items of evidence were submitted to the ISP Forensic Science Laboratory for analysis. Five Forensic Scientists have been dedicated solely to analyzing items collected from the Beason scene and have been working to provide results on the most probative evidence. ISP Forensic Scientists received the evidence on September 29 and were able to analyze enough evidence in two days resulting in the arrest of Christopher Harris. In order to aid the ongoing investigation, results on the highest priority exhibits continue to be communicated to Investigators as soon as they are available.

The ISP continues to further develop this surge concept for use in significant and/or catastrophic incidents such as this case. Dependent upon case criteria and circumstances, deployment of the Major Case Squad may be implemented anywhere throughout Illinois. Rapid deployment of this team of highly-trained and experienced experts provides the very best opportunity to solving crimes and restoring safety within our communities.

OK enough evidence in 2 days hell they are in wrong state.. they all need to be in VA. If they did just enough evidence then where the evidence from fingernail scrappings?
how long nicholes and hs gang was in ther by them selves with no protective clothing.. I will no believe anything that comes from nicholes .
These tests were already supposed to be done to arrest harris boys oops guess what they want tested hasnt been..

[happygert]

Well you cant say everyone gert because I never once thought such thing. I knew they did not have all the results back but they had what they needed back in 3-4 days to make the arrest.

I went to the ISP site but I guess they have removed the notice now but Nichols didn't say anything. What was done was put out by the ISP Major Case Squad investigators and what they did and they listed how many forensic scientists they have assigned to the case and how the expediting and cooperation of all law enforcement agencies brought this case to an arrest so that the citizens could feel safe in their community again.

There is much better forensic evidence than fingernail scrapings. Usually they are degraded and many times a dna profile cannot be gleamed from the results.

imo
they did say 5......why not do the testing right away on fingernails? Are they afraid it might be someone other then the Harris boys?

[happygert]

So far it is only the tire Iron they recovered from the murders. One perp to hold the victim down and one perp to slaughter them..:huh:

Well have to think about that .. If that happened how was the one holding them down not going to get hit is the fight? I cant see that happneing.

[happygert]

What I'm thinking is way back on or about the 21st of September they arrested Chris Harris. This was based on the testing Nichols speaks of where he says he's pleased with the results. The only thing he could have arrested Chris Harris for was positive finger print ID. Other than that I don't know of any other means since they went straight for Chris at his home. Chris has an arrest sheet prior, so his prints were in the system.
I'm not an expert by no means but it seems reasonable they picked up prints and I'd Chris.
Were they aware that Chris Harris was the ex husband of Nichol and he frequented the Gee's home a lot.
Nichols also indicated (after the initial arrest) that they already knew the motive.
I don't recall their reasoning for picking up his brother Jason.
Does anyone recall the details on that.

they arrested Chris IIRC on the 2nd of Oct. But they were supposed to have already knew it was the Harris boys with in the first 2 days. I'd like to know how that was possible since they were supposed to be still collecting evidence at the scene.

Also they arrested Jason on Obstruction charge and Jennifer on same charges.. Sent arrest warrant to fla for Sara Jennifers mom.
Then while they were in jail they did another search on Jason and Jennifers house. Low and behold this search they hit pay dirt.Found the acer laptop computer and also found weapons.. They everything changes now jason is Charged with the Murders

[happygert]

Everyone all I'm asking is for you to keep an open mind theres things in this case that doesn't sit well.

When you take a look at this case and things that have happened and still happening somethings wrong.

If it is proven that the Harris boys committed this crime I will be the first to admit I was wrong. However right now there is TOO many questions.

Starting with Chris's Truck..wrong color, extended cab, no stacks.
nicholes says it "mostly matches".. To me thats not good enough. The only thing that mostly matches is it's a Ford Ranger.

Why is the inquest being held at the paramedics office instead of the court house? this has never been done before.

Why did they LE not find the computer on first 2 seaches but found it when all were in jail?

Where is any injuries or hair Messing on Chris or Jason? This was a brutal crime scene they could not have walked out without any injuries.

Where's the blood evidence in Chris's truck? Yes they say they have some swabs from his truck but they never said it was blood. This truck should be a bloody mess.

This crime scene was a bloody mess no way could who ever did this walk out without being covered in blood.

I still believe these murders are connected to drugs not a computer or a rape.
theres so many more questions but thats just for starters.

[Amy]

Did they not get dna from 133 items already way back in September?
:confused:

Perhaps these requests are for additional items LE wasn't in possession of when the first 133 items were submitted? I would think they would be gathering evidence all along, when it is found, and submitting the new evidence.

[happygert]

Perhaps these requests are for additional items LE wasn't in possession of when the first 133 items were submitted? I would think they would be gathering evidence all along, when it is found, and submitting the new evidence.

The only problem with that is they did have fingernail scrappings from the victims.

[Amy]

Yes that is standard. If the dna sample is small where the testing can use it all up then the defense attorney has a right to be there to witness how it is done. I imagine they will still request things to test. I have seen request for further evidence to be tested.... even right up close to trial time.

I saw a cold case that was solved when they found two drops of the victim's blood on the perps tennis shoe.

BBM

From what I read and hear, most investigations are ongoing even up to the trial. The state would be interested in any evidence coming in, even if they already have enough to convict. And, right now, they aren't anywhere near conviction, so it does stand to reason that, if new information/evidence showed up, they would want it tested. IMO

[happygert]

While looking at the Lincoln courier to see if there was anything in there about the Gee's I found this article about Dillans dad.
Seems he was arrested again for drugs:
.
The record for Dec 1 Police beat Drug and alcohol arrests * A Logan County deputy arrested Gerald L. Miller, 53, of the 100 block of Webster Drive at 11:12 p.m. Monday at 1550th Street and 500th Avenue on charges of possession of a controlled substance, possession of drug paraphernalia and driving under the influence of drugs.
http://www.lincolncourier.com/archive/x441562476/The-record-for-Dec-1

Tue Dec 1 00:00:00 CST 2009



Seems like there's a whole lot of people who's connected to this case in one way or another has drug convictions. I still believe this case is drug related. JMHO.

[Leanne Weich]

well if its not true they should have not stated that they collected 133 items of evidence and tested them.. So I guess they flat out lied!

They said they based the arrests of the Harris boys on those 133 pieces of evidence that was tested.

So which is did they test those 133 pieces of evidence and get them back faster then QUENTICO or didn't they?

It's likely, imo, that they had 133 pieces of evidence which it was safe to test as there would be sufficient material left for the defense to conduct their own tests should they wish to do so.

However, if they had evidence which would be totally consumed by their testing and, had they gone ahead and tested it, people like you would be saying something was wrong with that too. Let's face it, LE can't win on this one with you. They've done things according to the book with the testing, imo.

[GentleBreeze]

Everyone all I'm asking is for you to keep an open mind theres things in this case that doesn't sit well.

When you take a look at this case and things that have happened and still happening somethings wrong.

If it is proven that the Harris boys committed this crime I will be the first to admit I was wrong. However right now there is TOO many questions.

Starting with Chris's Truck..wrong color, extended cab, no stacks.
nicholes says it "mostly matches".. To me thats not good enough. The only thing that mostly matches is it's a Ford Ranger.

Why is the inquest being held at the paramedics office instead of the court house? this has never been done before.

Why did they LE not find the computer on first 2 seaches but found it when all were in jail?

Where is any injuries or hair Messing on Chris or Jason? This was a brutal crime scene they could not have walked out without any injuries.

Where's the blood evidence in Chris's truck? Yes they say they have some swabs from his truck but they never said it was blood. This truck should be a bloody mess.

This crime scene was a bloody mess no way could who ever did this walk out without being covered in blood.

I still believe these murders are connected to drugs not a computer or a rape.
theres so many more questions but thats just for starters.

And you certainly have a right to believe what you want to Gert.

However I just don't see anything suspicious or abnormal about this case. As I have stated before I wish my state had a Major Case Task Squad like Illinois does when it comes to multiple killings.

In fact IMO, this case seems to be thoroughly investigated and started immediately upon the body discoveries when Sheriff Nichols asked for assistance within minutes from so many other qualified agencies.

I have learned over the years that no one can truly ever say how a suspect will look when they leave a crime scene including how bloody they were or not or if they had injuries or none at all.

We try to rationalize horrid acts that happened and apply our own logic yet none of us were there to know what happened. Others who have committed mass bludgeonings did not have injuries and if blood was found in their vehicle it was minimal. So if they did swab areas in his vehicle they would only do so if the substance appeared to be blood. Of course LE does not do the forensic testing and those results will come from the labs. And the DA would never be foolish enough to put out his results. That will be revealed at trial.

I really don't think the description of the truck is going to be a factor in this case. Imo, when it goes to trial it will be the evidence pointing directly at both suspects and imo they are going to connect the truck to the crimes.

Thinking it is a drug deal still makes no sense imo. Why would the Harris Bros invade someone's home for drugs. Were they that big of drug blown addicts? And if so, why not go when no one was there or just maybe one or two? Why go when they were all home including a sweet precious child named Tabitha who was completely defenseless against these thugs?

We do not know the rhyme or reason YET but imo the law enforcement agencies including the DA does know the connection to the laptop, attempted sexual assault and all that transpired because of wanting to do these things.

These guys were up to no good and imo it didn't have anything to do with drugs unless they were on drugs at the time.

imo

[darcie]

[QUOTE=happygert;13685434]Everyone all I'm asking is for you to keep an open mind theres things in this case that doesn't sit well.

snipped and bolded by me.


I can keep an open mind....can you? I am just kinda curious.

Prosecutors want DNA testing in Beason slayings

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/2A52C2A4AECF6E1E862576800049AC57?OpenDocument

Prosecutors handling the case of two brothers accused of killing five members of a central Illinois family are asking for DNA testing on more than 25 pieces of evidence.
---

It's just my opinion. But I think this is ADDITIONAL testing on new items.

[JoAnn]

they arrested Chris IIRC on the 2nd of Oct. But they were supposed to have already knew it was the Harris boys with in the first 2 days. I'd like to know how that was possible since they were supposed to be still collecting evidence at the scene.

Also they arrested Jason on Obstruction charge and Jennifer on same charges.. Sent arrest warrant to fla for Sara Jennifers mom.
Then while they were in jail they did another search on Jason and Jennifers house. Low and behold this search they hit pay dirt.Found the acer laptop computer and also found weapons.. They everything changes now jason is Charged with the Murders

And??????...I don't see the issue your upset about in the above statment....the laptop could have have been hidden very well...OR Jason or Jennifer could have retrieved it from another hiding place and brought it home AFTER the first time the place was searched, thinking it would be safe since the house had already been searched.

Gert...no one really KNOWS..not you...not me...what happened that night and why the Gee's were murdered. You are basing a lot of your feelings on gut instinct and the belief that Chris could not have done this, since you know him...and because you have had bad experinces with LE in the past..

Most of the posters here have based their thoughts and opinions on what we have read here, and in the news...and are not caught up in the personal atmosphere that you are in. We are looking more at the reported facts...the rumors, the facebook or myspace pages , the tidbits we have learned either from you or from other locals...and each person has formed their own beliefs and thoughts..

Sometimes I have doubts on Chris...but only because the motive was not released..the motive would settle it for most people that were wavering in thought..the motive may change a lot of minds if and when we are allowed to know about it.

Eye witnesses are notorious for having faulty recollections ...and being just plain wrong sometimes. However maybe THERE was a truck with stacks..and maybe it had nothing to do with the crime..just a truck passing thru...that is also a possibility.

The defense wants to know everything there is to know..so they can explain things away...the prosecution wants to keep as much info private as possible so as not to give away their strategy and evidence to the defense. Each side wants the other side to work and find their own evidence or defense without giving any info up easily.

Much will come out in the trial that we are not aware of. If your thoughts are valid...the defense will punch holes in the prosecution side..and give reasonable doubt that Chris and or Jason did it.

[Details]

Based on the way they slaughtered this family one would think they had to have been on drugs. To wipe out a family like this there must have been a lot of raging anger inside the killers. I can't imagine anyone attacking an entire family the way they did without being under the influence of a mind altering drug. But then again, we may be looking at a psychopath. Then again,
what are the chances of two psychopaths together at the same time committing these crimes is beyond my comprehension. I have never heard of it. .....Actually - you have. We all have. Columbine.

And when they looked more into it - it wasn't two psychopaths - it was one, and one who was a perfect follower type.

They may well have been on drugs - many people with mental illnesses or simply huge personality disorders, use drugs. Psychopaths sometimes use them even in a quest to feel something because they're so empty inside.

Whatever it was - we don't get to know everything until the trial - which is as it should be, as it must be. It's not right to contaminate the jury pool, to try the case in the media. The jury should get all of the relevant information in court, not leaks of possibly excluded and possibly false evidence from the media. Of course, such leaks and rumors always exist - but it's right for the prosecution to keep as much as they can under wraps.

[Details]

Everyone all I'm asking is for you to keep an open mind theres things in this case that doesn't sit well.

When you take a look at this case and things that have happened and still happening somethings wrong.

If it is proven that the Harris boys committed this crime I will be the first to admit I was wrong. However right now there is TOO many questions.

Starting with Chris's Truck..wrong color, extended cab, no stacks.
nicholes says it "mostly matches".. To me thats not good enough. The only thing that mostly matches is it's a Ford Ranger.

Why is the inquest being held at the paramedics office instead of the court house? this has never been done before.

Why did they LE not find the computer on first 2 seaches but found it when all were in jail?

Where is any injuries or hair Messing on Chris or Jason? This was a brutal crime scene they could not have walked out without any injuries.

Where's the blood evidence in Chris's truck? Yes they say they have some swabs from his truck but they never said it was blood. This truck should be a bloody mess.

This crime scene was a bloody mess no way could who ever did this walk out without being covered in blood.

I still believe these murders are connected to drugs not a computer or a rape.
theres so many more questions but thats just for starters.I'm always open minded - but I'm not seeing anything but the usual rumors and questions that are there in every case.

Eyewitnesses are frequently - nearly always - a bit off - unless it's someone or something they know well. Memory is a fuzzy thing, and indeed there may have been a different truck, or they may have remembered it a bit wrong - the details match to a good degree, for eyewitness testimony.

Nope, it's not a given, not remotely, that a violent crime like this means defensive wounds on the attackers. Go up against someone swinging a tire iron, and you won't have much of any chance to lay a finger on them - one good hit and you are down and helpless. Same for blood - it doesn't always spray that far, depends on the weapon and the type of hit - a blunt object won't cause a lot of spatter. A quick wash of the hands, and since they weren't sitting in blood, they wouldn't have any on the back sides of their clothing to get on the truck.

The computer - a matter of a warrant, a matter of not thinking it was relevant until further evidence showed it might be - or, a devious possibility - maybe it was being monitored to see what might happen with it - watch their emails and hope something incriminating was sent. But not knowing why doesn't prove anything - merely that we don't know why they didn't opt to pick it up earlier - you don't even know if it WAS there earlier - it could have been being hidden at another house. There are many possibilities - jumping to the conclusion that it indicates something about the police - it suggests a bias to look to only one conclusion.

Keep an open mind to the possibility the police are telling the truth - in your posts, you jump to the conclusion that makes the police a liar - that there are only 133 pieces of evidence, that this statement was a claim they tested all of them, and thus 25 more makes them a liar - you've got one side going there. Look to both sides.

[Silk]

Actually - you have. We all have. Columbine.

And when they looked more into it - it wasn't two psychopaths - it was one, and one who was a perfect follower type.

They may well have been on drugs - many people with mental illnesses or simply huge personality disorders, use drugs. Psychopaths sometimes use them even in a quest to feel something because they're so empty inside.

Whatever it was - we don't get to know everything until the trial - which is as it should be, as it must be. It's not right to contaminate the jury pool, to try the case in the media. The jury should get all of the relevant information in court, not leaks of possibly excluded and possibly false evidence from the media. Of course, such leaks and rumors always exist - but it's right for the prosecution to keep as much as they can under wraps.

I will absolutely agree with you as far as the relevant information in court. However, I was addressing the simplicity of LE being clear on what kind of prints and DNA they are looking for in the 25 Items. Like I said, it would not be tampering with the jury pool if they just came out and said "blood" was found on the Items instead of "smudges, smears and marks.:confused: that would not effect any prospective jury. They are testing. Unless, they can not say it because it's not "blood" smudges, smears or marks.

[GentleBreeze]

Perhaps these requests are for additional items LE wasn't in possession of when the first 133 items were submitted? I would think they would be gathering evidence all along, when it is found, and submitting the new evidence.

I believe you are correct Amy.

Excerpt:

"LINCOLN -- A tube of antibiotic ointment, shoes and a tire iron are among the items prosecutors want to submit for DNA testing in the case of two brothers accused of killing five members of the Gee family in September at the family's home in Beason."

These things had to be things found after the Harris brothers had been arrested because if iirc, at that time they were looking for the long cylindrical weapon used to bludgeon the family.

Seems they think they have found it and that is one thing, among others, they want tested now.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I will absolutely agree with you as far as the relevant information in court. However, I was addressing the simplicity of LE being clear on what kind of prints and DNA they are looking for in the 25 Items. Like I said, it would not be tampering with the jury pool if they just came out and said "blood" was found on the Items instead of "smudges, smears and marks.:confused: that would not effect any prospective jury. They are testing. Unless, they can not say it because it's not "blood" smudges, smears or marks.

I know it seems like it should be but this is the way LE works. Since neither the DAs office nor LE are forensic scientists they never declare anything they see to be "blood."

In fact when we see the same officers testify in court they will not say it was blood. Only the forensic techs or scientists are able to confirm whether something really is blood or not and they will give the results of that when they testify.

So imo it is just protocol.

imo

[Silk]

I know it seems like it should be but this is the way LE works. Since neither the DAs office nor LE are forensic scientists they never declare anything they see to be "blood."

In fact when we see the same officers testify in court they will not say it was blood. Only the forensic techs or scientists are able to confirm whether something really is blood or not and they will give the results of that when they testify.

So imo it is just protocol.

imo

:blushing: OH... Gentle, you are right. Duh!!

By the way, do you guys like my new dress. I didn't get bounced. Just got tired at looking at my real name.:biggrin:

[GentleBreeze]

:blushing: OH... Gentle, you are right. Duh!!

By the way, do you guys like my new dress. I didn't get bounced. Just got tired at looking at my real name.:biggrin:

:biggrin:I do like it. Very nice.

imo

[clueless]

Included is the list of evidence that would be consumed by DA in testing.

Humke attached a list of the samples requiring consumption.

Some of the main items include fingernail scrapings from the victims: Gee, his wife Ruth, Justina Constant, Dillon Constant and Austin Gee.

Other items include:
* One pair of size 11, ‘K-SWISS,’ tennis shoes from a grassy area location past a bridge on McLean Road, one-tenth of a mile south of Hartford Road. This includes swabs collected from the right shoe, along with stains (cuttings and swabs) collected from the left shoe.
* A tire iron found in a muddy location west of the bridge on McLean Road
* Swabs from an Acer laptop computer that reportedly was stolen from the Gee home
* One pair of Reebok shoes recovered from the living room floor by the front door of Jason Harris’ residence north of Armington
* A swab from the inside of a cap off a tube of Bacitracin ointment, which was recovered from the dining room in the residence of Nicole Gee, daughter of Rick Gee. The swab includes material found outside of the tube. According to Walgreen’s Web site, this ointment is used to treat minor cuts and burns.
* Areas collected from inside the primer gray-colored Ford Ranger to include swabs of the interior driver’s side, a swab from the middle floor hump and swabs from the interior wall of the driver’s side extended cab.
* A swab of the USB connector on a wireless mouse receiver found in the master bedroom of the Gee residence
The evidence also includes samples from evidence taken throughout the home, including swabs from the hallway and a linen cloth from the master bedroom. Several swabs of evidence were also taken from the northwest bedroom of the home.
Both Harris brothers are set to appear for a status hearing Thursday at the Logan County Courthouse in front of Circuit Judge Thomas Harris.


From Lincoln Courier....could not get the link to work properly.....

[AmndaRcknwth]

Try this for the "state wants to test evidence":
http://www.lincolncourier.com/news/x441564459/State-wants-to-test-Gee-evidence?popular=true


And the inquest story:
http://www.lincolncourier.com/news/x1682947285/Gee-inquests-to-be-held-Monday?popular=true

Gee inquests to be held Monday

The Logan County Coroner’s Office will hold an inquest into the deaths of five members of the Raymond Gee family at 6 p.m. Monday at the Logan County Paramedics Association building.

The purpose of the inquest, which will be convened by Coroner Bob Thomas, is to reveal the cause of death for each individual. Shortly following the murders, authorities revealed that autopsy results showed the family members died from blunt force trauma to their heads by a tire iron.

Both Harris brothers are set to appear in court for a status hearing on Thursday.

[cynical]

You're back into that false dichotomy again.

Here is a very possible scenario, that does not include lies.

They collected 133 items of evidence, and tested them.
Then, they had ANOTHER 25 pieces of evidence (and really, 158 pieces of evidence for a case of this size is still quite small), that also need testing.

See? That's what I'm saying about a false dichotomy. ONLY if you assume there were only 133 pieces of evidence, and that they never ever found any more evidence to test, are they lying.

ETA: And if what GentleBreeze is saying is correct, they may not have even said what you claim they did say.

Details,
You can try to explain this repeatedly, and you'll keep getting the same reply ..... well Nichols said the truck mostly matches.

Thanks for trying to help a confused one.

[GentleBreeze]

Try this for the "state wants to test evidence":
http://www.lincolncourier.com/news/x441564459/State-wants-to-test-Gee-evidence?popular=true


And the inquest story:
http://www.lincolncourier.com/news/x1682947285/Gee-inquests-to-be-held-Monday?popular=true

Gee inquests to be held Monday

The Logan County Coroner’s Office will hold an inquest into the deaths of five members of the Raymond Gee family at 6 p.m. Monday at the Logan County Paramedics Association building.

The purpose of the inquest, which will be convened by Coroner Bob Thomas, is to reveal the cause of death for each individual. Shortly following the murders, authorities revealed that autopsy results showed the family members died from blunt force trauma to their heads by a tire iron.

Both Harris brothers are set to appear in court for a status hearing on Thursday.



I am not familiar with Illinois inquest but I am a little confused why an inquest has to be held when the ME has already determined that each victim died from blunt force trauma and all deaths of course where homicides.

Does anyone know why this is done when the cause and manner of death has already been determined?

Is it just some type of legal formality?

tia

[GentleBreeze]

I forgot about the Chris Coleman case being in Illinois also.

I searched "Illinois inquest" and this article came up.

Very interesting. Seems there will be a panel of jurors and they will decide if the deaths were homicides.

WATERLOO, IL (KTVI - FOX2now.com) - Seven jurors, two men and five women, listened to how police discovered the bodies of Sheri Coleman and her two sons Gavin and Garett May 5th in Columbia, Illinois. It was part of a Coroner's Inquest and another step in the criminal case against murder suspect Chris Coleman. Originally, the Monroe County Coroner said she was not going to hold an inquest. It's no longer required by the State of Illinois. However, the Coroner, after discussions with police and prosecutors, decided it would add an additional check and balance to the case.

The jurors listened to all the testimony, which took about 15 minutes. Then they deliberated for about half that time. They returned a verdict of Homicide by Ligature Strangulation for all three victims.

[Details]

Very strange.

Why use a bunch of jurors to evaluate a medical question - were they murdered and how? They're supposed to be able to evaluate the evidence? Really? And if we get a few of the wrong people on the jury, and they come up with - "They're not dead, they're still alive right now and sitting in the courtroom with us" - that's the verdict? Makes no sense to me.

[Silk]

Very strange.

Why use a bunch of jurors to evaluate a medical question - were they murdered and how? They're supposed to be able to evaluate the evidence? Really? And if we get a few of the wrong people on the jury, and they come up with - "They're not dead, they're still alive right now and sitting in the courtroom with us" - that's the verdict? Makes no sense to me.

Details, you do have a valid point. Funny but valid.:biggrin:

[Silk]

I forgot about the Chris Coleman case being in Illinois also.

I searched "Illinois inquest" and this article came up.

Very interesting. Seems there will be a panel of jurors and they will decide if the deaths were homicides.

WATERLOO, IL (KTVI - FOX2now.com) - Seven jurors, two men and five women, listened to how police discovered the bodies of Sheri Coleman and her two sons Gavin and Garett May 5th in Columbia, Illinois. It was part of a Coroner's Inquest and another step in the criminal case against murder suspect Chris Coleman. Originally, the Monroe County Coroner said she was not going to hold an inquest. It's no longer required by the State of Illinois. However, the Coroner, after discussions with police and prosecutors, decided it would add an additional check and balance to the case.

The jurors listened to all the testimony, which took about 15 minutes. Then they deliberated for about half that time. They returned a verdict of Homicide by Ligature Strangulation for all three victims.

I would like to know why they are conducting it at a paramedic facility and not in court.:confused:

[GentleBreeze]

Very strange.

Why use a bunch of jurors to evaluate a medical question - were they murdered and how? They're supposed to be able to evaluate the evidence? Really? And if we get a few of the wrong people on the jury, and they come up with - "They're not dead, they're still alive right now and sitting in the courtroom with us" - that's the verdict? Makes no sense to me.

It is strange to me too Details.

I know other states do it as well. I have heard Dr. Wecht talk about them through the years and he has held them. Didn't they have a jury inquest into the death of one of Drew Peterson's wife and that is when they ruled her death accidental years ago? Then the current coroner went back in and did another autopsy on his own years later and deemed it homicide.

But how can anyone believe that anyone was accidentally beaten to death with a tire iron? Just seems a waste of time in this case imo. I guess it is an inquest in secrecy or I wonder if the public is allowed to be there.

imo

[Details]

I would like to know why they are conducting it at a paramedic facility and not in court.:confused:Probably the best spot to be able to show samples, equipment, techniques, etc. to the jurors. Easier to do it there than move things to the courthouse for a show.

[desmom]

I am not familiar with Illinois inquest but I am a little confused why an inquest has to be held when the ME has already determined that each victim died from blunt force trauma and all deaths of course where homicides.

Does anyone know why this is done when the cause and manner of death has already been determined?

Is it just some type of legal formality?

tia

IMO, it is a coroner's inquest and just another formality.

I could not find anything for Logan County. This is from Adams County:
What is a Coroner's Inquest?
http://www.co.adams.il.us/coroner/inquest.htm

A coroner's inquest is open to the public.

[desmom]

Harris case could take three years to go to trial
http://www.sj-r.com/news/x2072231762/Hearing-later-this-month-on-DNA-testing-of-evidence-in-Beason-case

[GentleBreeze]

IMO, it is a coroner's inquest and just another formality.

I could not find anything for Logan County. This is from Adams County:
What is a Coroner's Inquest?
http://www.co.adams.il.us/coroner/inquest.htm

A coroner's inquest is open to the public.


Thank you so much desmom. So I guess the media will be at the inquest too since it is open to the public.

imo

[Silk]

IMO, it is a coroner's inquest and just another formality.

I could not find anything for Logan County. This is from Adams County:
What is a Coroner's Inquest?
http://www.co.adams.il.us/coroner/inquest.htm

A coroner's inquest is open to the public.

Good morning Desmom...
I really appreciate everything you share with us. It seems when we are questioning something up pops your post and link to the immediate question.
Thanks a bunch for the information.
I have to say, THIS IS COOL! Anyone can attend. (Take that Beason) hahaha!! Seriously, we should have something in the newspaper tomorrow. Yippee-Skippy.:thumbsup:

[Silk]

Harris case could take three years to go to trial
http://www.sj-r.com/news/x2072231762/Hearing-later-this-month-on-DNA-testing-of-evidence-in-Beason-case

Looks like Dillon's biological father Gerald Miller is attending all the hearings and court dates and Chris Harris ex wife Nicole Harris is there for all of them too.
They were not specific as to where they are at as far as the defense side of this case or the prosecutors side. All they say is they are there giving each other support.:huh:

[IM4Truth]

Looks like Dillon's biological father Gerald Miller is attending all the hearings and court dates and Chris Harris ex wife Nicole Harris is there for all of them too.
They were not specific as to where they are at as far as the defense side of this case or the prosecutors side. All they say is they are there giving each other support.:huh:

I just don't get how Nicole can sit on the front row in support of her ex-husband with so much damning evidence against him? (except for the truck that mostly matched)

[m3t00]

I just don't get how Nicole can sit on the front row in support of her ex-husband with so much damning evidence against him? (except for the truck that mostly matched)

It didn't say she was supporting her ex. Hard to imagine what she thinks or knows at this point but maybe some reporter will ask her and clue us all in.

Back to lurking... :w00t:

[IM4Truth]

It didn't say she was supporting her ex. Hard to imagine what she thinks or knows at this point but maybe some reporter will ask her and clue us all in.

Back to lurking... :w00t:

Yes, where is Nancy Grace when we really need her? Oh yeah, she is hanging around the Tiger......boring!

[JoAnn]

Yes, where is Nancy Grace when we really need her? Oh yeah, she is hanging around the Tiger......boring!

Like anyone really cares what or who was or wasnt a girlfriend...move on news people..to REAL news.

[JoAnn]

I am not familiar with Illinois inquest but I am a little confused why an inquest has to be held when the ME has already determined that each victim died from blunt force trauma and all deaths of course where homicides.

Does anyone know why this is done when the cause and manner of death has already been determined?

Is it just some type of legal formality?

tia

I think it is just dotting the i's and crossing the t's...covering all possible things that could come up later by the defense to ask for a mistrial...

[Silk]

I think it is just dotting the i's and crossing the t's...covering all possible things that could come up later by the defense to ask for a mistrial...

Hello Joann...
I think you are correct. I can't imagine another reason. What I don't understand and none of us do right now is whether Nicole and Dillon's father are there to support the defense on behalf of the Harris boys or the prosecutors on behalf of the Gee's.
It would appear to me that Dillon's father Gerald Miller would definitely be there on behalf of the prosecutors. Then we have Nicole. That's a really tough call.
It is all so very sad.:sad:

[JoAnn]

Hello Joann...
I think you are correct. I can't imagine another reason. What I don't understand and none of us do right now is whether Nicole and Dillon's father are there to support the defense on behalf of the Harris boys or the prosecutors on behalf of the Gee's.
It would appear to me that Dillon's father Gerald Miller would definitely be there on behalf of the prosecutors. Then we have Nicole. That's a really tough call.
It is all so very sad.:sad:

Can you imagine what Nicole has mentally been thru...the murder of her family..the arrest of her ex, and father of her children..she had so little time to mourn her dad and step mom, siblings lives when she turned to Chris who stood by her side..only to have him arrested for the murders, plus his brother, plus the arrest of Jennifer and her mom.

She had to get thru people that might have thought she was involved..that thought it happened because of her, she had to deal with her love for Chris and her belief that he didnt do it..couldnt have done it...to her appearing before the grand jury..to listening to some of the evidence that has been collected....to being banned from seeing Tabitha...

Her entire life was changed forever by that fateful night and the events that followed. If she were to now believe that Chris could have done it...she also would have to deal with the fact that he lied to her, deceived her and murdered her family..this man that she loved and bore children with.

How much can one person take? I sincerely hope she has had a place to turn to... a counselor or therapist , or other professional to help her put her own life together and to get on and forward with her life.

so which side she is there for? What does she believe in now?
I dont know..maybe both..maybe neither..maybe she is waiting to see how this plays out..or maybe she saw and heard enough to change her beliefs...

so incredibly sad, so many peoples lives touched and changed forever.

[clueless]

Can you imagine what Nicole has mentally been thru...the murder of her family..the arrest of her ex, and father of her children..she had so little time to mourn her dad and step mom, siblings lives when she turned to Chris who stood by her side..only to have him arrested for the murders, plus his brother, plus the arrest of Jennifer and her mom.

She had to get thru people that might have thought she was involved..that thought it happened because of her, she had to deal with her love for Chris and her belief that he didnt do it..couldnt have done it...to her appearing before the grand jury..to listening to some of the evidence that has been collected....to being banned from seeing Tabitha...

Her entire life was changed forever by that fateful night and the events that followed. If she were to now believe that Chris could have done it...she also would have to deal with the fact that he lied to her, deceived her and murdered her family..this man that she loved and bore children with.

How much can one person take? I sincerely hope she has had a place to turn to... a counselor or therapist , or other professional to help her put her own life together and to get on and forward with her life.

so which side she is there for? What does she believe in now?
I dont know..maybe both..maybe neither..maybe she is waiting to see how this plays out..or maybe she saw and heard enough to change her beliefs...

so incredibly sad, so many peoples lives touched and changed forever.

I concur JoAnn. I don't think we can even begin to know or feel what this woman has been thru. I'm sure it still feels surreal to her at times. I know you can take meds to help you sleep, but nightmares hit upon first awakening and realizing it is real. Hopefully she is getting some professional help, along with the stability of remaining family. Her grandmother and mother would be key in helping her stay strong and focused on her children and herself. She must. I hope she will realize it does get better with time and not try to medicate herself for the pain with drugs/alcohol, as this will ONLY make matters worse down the line and obscure any decisions she needs to make and delay the healing that eventually will come. Whatever her judgement is on their innocence or guilt, she must give it over to the pros and God to take care of. My prayers are with her and the family.

[darcie]

Very strange.

Why use a bunch of jurors to evaluate a medical question - were they murdered and how? They're supposed to be able to evaluate the evidence? Really? And if we get a few of the wrong people on the jury, and they come up with - "They're not dead, they're still alive right now and sitting in the courtroom with us" - that's the verdict? Makes no sense to me.

I follow the Chris Coleman case also. At the time of the inquest in that case, Chris Coleman had already been arrested and charged with murder. They then held a Coroner's inquest....after the inquest, it was stated by LE that the inquest was basically held to kinda dot the I's and cross the T's on the case. It was announced after several weeks that Coleman was up for the death penalty and THAT was why they held the inquest.

if i can find the link, I'll post it.

MOO

[darcie]

I just wanted to post the link about the Coleman Coroner's Inquest in case someone wanted to see it.

*snipped and bolded by me*


It was part of a Coroner's Inquest and another step in the criminal case against murder suspect Chris Coleman. Originally, the Monroe County Coroner said she was not going to hold an inquest. It's no longer required by the State of Illinois. However, the Coroner, after discussions with police and prosecutors, decided it would add an additional check and balance to the case.


http://www.fox2now.com/ktvi-coleman-murder-inquest-results-071009,0,177283.story

[desmom]

Gee family inquest sheds no light on murders
http://www.sj-r.com/news/x1682955042/Gee-family-inquest-sheds-no-light-on-murders

Coroner's inquest reveals little about Beason killings
http://www.pantagraph.com/news/local/article_fdf64d58-e3b5-11de-8947-001cc4c002e0.html

[clueless]

Wow! This guy had alot of experience for Lincoln, IL.

http://www.lincolncourier.com/newsnow/x2072237340/Lincoln-police-chief-to-step-down


http://www.cimllp.com/services.htm

[Amy]

Wow! This guy had alot of experience for Lincoln, IL.

http://www.lincolncourier.com/newsnow/x2072237340/Lincoln-police-chief-to-step-down


http://www.cimllp.com/services.htm

He said he was ready to be retired "again." Sounds like the way things happen in many areas, including schools. The chief or the superintendent steps down, moves on, whatever. The city or the school district, when they can't find qualified people will sometimes look to retired folks to fill the position. Sounds like that could be how he came on board.

[clueless]

While I was doing a little research of his experience I found this little tidbit. Maybe this is why HappyGert has a bad taste for LE in Logan Co.?
http://www.pantagraph.com/news/article_bb54bf61-a828-52fb-85e7-947387234ef5.html

[Silk]

Gee family inquest sheds no light on murders
http://www.sj-r.com/news/x1682955042/Gee-family-inquest-sheds-no-light-on-murders

Coroner's inquest reveals little about Beason killings
http://www.pantagraph.com/news/local/article_fdf64d58-e3b5-11de-8947-001cc4c002e0.html


Relatives and friends of the Gee family, hoping for additional information about the deaths of the couple and three of their children, left an inquest disappointed Monday night as authorities cited an ongoing investigation as a reason for keeping a lid on details.
Logan county Sheriff Steve Nichols answered a series of "scripted" questions from coroner Robert Thomas before the inquest jury deliberation about 15 minutes on it's ruling that the deaths were as a result of homicide. The Sheriff said disclosing more could jeopardize an ongoing investigation.

This could mean one or two things about Gerald Miller and Nicole Harris. Did they attend on behalf of the Gee's or were they there on behalf of the Harris boys.
This gives me the impression they were there as relatives and friends of the Gee's. It would at least make sense since it was Gerald's son who was murdered ruthlessly.
Trial may not begin for 3 years? WOW!

[Silk]

While I was doing a little research of his experience I found this little tidbit. Maybe this is why HappyGert has a bad taste for LE in Logan Co.?
http://www.pantagraph.com/news/article_bb54bf61-a828-52fb-85e7-947387234ef5.html

Good thing he quit the police force prior to this arrest and charge. Who knows what he may or may not have done while on the police force up to 2004. Just sayin.

[Amy]

Good thing he quit the police force prior to this arrest and charge. Who knows what he may or may not have done while on the police force up to 2004. Just sayin.


Too bad there was a plea down. 30 years would have been more appropriate. He was sexually abuse as a child does not excuse his behaviour, IMO. And, it has been documented that pedophiles do not respond well to treatment. I sure hope this fellow is an exception, seeing as how he's gonna be out in less than 4 years (counting time served, and does he get a chance for parole which could decrease the time even more.)

[Details]

While I was doing a little research of his experience I found this little tidbit. Maybe this is why HappyGert has a bad taste for LE in Logan Co.?
http://www.pantagraph.com/news/article_bb54bf61-a828-52fb-85e7-947387234ef5.htmlI can't see how. Anyone can be fooled by a pedophile, and they had no record to know what he was. It's not like the police department knew and tried to protect him.

[happygert]

While I was doing a little research of his experience I found this little tidbit. Maybe this is why HappyGert has a bad taste for LE in Logan Co.?
http://www.pantagraph.com/news/article_bb54bf61-a828-52fb-85e7-947387234ef5.html

Heres another one who was a police officer in Lincoln that was busted for selling pot she had over 500 grams and she got 15 years. Her hubby was also arrested and he was a paramedic. I dont think he got prison time. I havent found the article in paper but here is the link to her pic and what prison she is in. (Diane Short)

Doesnt it seem odd to anyone but me that Rick was busted with over 500 grams and for trafficing and did no JAIL time. Basically he was charged with same amount she was.He got probabtion and a fine.

http://www.idoc.state.il.us/

[happygert]

Heres another one who was a police officer in Lincoln that was busted for selling pot she had over 500 grams and she got 15 years. Her hubby was also arrested and he was a paramedic. I dont think he got prison time. I havent found the article in paper but here is the link to her pic and what prison she is in. (Diane Short)

Doesnt it seem odd to anyone but me that Rick was busted with over 500 grams and for trafficing and did no JAIL time. Basically he was charged with same amount she was.He got probabtion and a fine.

http://www.idoc.state.il.us/

Correction she was also charged with meth and controlled substance and no vaild fio card. So She was more then a pot dealer looks like she was dealing in a little bit of everything. so maybe thats why she got so much time.. and rick didnt not. but IMO he should have gotten some time for the large amount he had. it was not for personal use. jmho..

[darcie]

Yeah,I too wish Rick would have gotten jail time, he might be alive today...instead of dead. :sad:

[clueless]

Correction she was also charged with meth and controlled substance and no vaild fio card. So She was more then a pot dealer looks like she was dealing in a little bit of everything. so maybe thats why she got so much time.. and rick didnt not. but IMO he should have gotten some time for the large amount he had. it was not for personal use. jmho..

Here is the info on John and Diana Short and her daugher, Brianna Strohl. Involves pot, meth, and psilocybin:

http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Short_Diana_686123415.aspx

She got 15 yrs, hubby 6, and daughter 180 days and 4 yrs prob. Nice mamma, she coerced her daughter into mfg drugs to pay her bail.

I imagine Rick got off with prob and a hefty fine because this was his first offense. She was in LE, he a paramedic, and they got the daughter involved. Not the brightest light bulb in the room??

MOO: I'd rather see someone sitting in my home smoking a joint, rather than drinking a beer/shot, using hard drugs, or unauthorized or abusing prescription drugs. I've never known a marijuana user to become violent unless they were accompanied by the other. Pot addicting? Absolutely, but so is EVERYTHING and ANYTHING if you let it.

[IlliniFan]

Yeah,I too wish Rick would have gotten jail time, he might be alive today...instead of dead. :sad:


I sort know how you feel. I see his picture or a picture of Ruth or the kids, and I just feel so horrible about what their last minutes of life must have been like. It's all just so sad.

[clueless]

I would like to clarify my position on the LE issue.
I am in total support of the men in blue and always have been. They put their lives on the line at all times for our safety and well being. Sometimes giving the ultimate sacrifice. My reason for bringing this post into view was in answer to MY question of why Gert was so adamant about LE being corrupt in Logan Co. I was wanting to see what was behind it. I knew that we had doubt and questions to Gert for her way of thinking. I don't know these men and if they are still on the force of LPD. However, having said that I cannot find anything on behavior of the Sheriff's department. May be Gert can supply something there if she feels the need to do so. For all intent and purposes this investigation does not look bungled, but managed very well. LE are human, just as we all are and make mistakes. But we hold them in a higher position, rightfully so, and probably our expectations are at that level also.

[Details]

clueless - IIRC - gert has already posted what you were looking for - he knows the accused, doesn't believe them capable of this - IIRC. Am I remembering right - or was that a different poster?

[clueless]

clueless - IIRC - gert has already posted what you were looking for - he knows the accused, doesn't believe them capable of this - IIRC. Am I remembering right - or was that a different poster?

Details, I believe Gert's children and a niece, if I'm correct know Chris. Your correct in her feelings of innocent on his behalf; therefore, her reasons for his charges in this case are because of her lack of faith in LE in this area.
I guess I'm not totally understanding your point that Gert has already posted what I was looking for?...Gert had made previous posts about her lack of faith in the local LE and mentioned numerous cases, but had failed to post any with substantial facts to the errors that had been made. Putting rumor, speculation, and personal feelings aside I wanted verification. So yes, now I can see, and others here also, why she may be feeling some distrust. Hope I answered your question

[GentleBreeze]

I would like to clarify my position on the LE issue.
I am in total support of the men in blue and always have been. They put their lives on the line at all times for our safety and well being. Sometimes giving the ultimate sacrifice. My reason for bringing this post into view was in answer to MY question of why Gert was so adamant about LE being corrupt in Logan Co. I was wanting to see what was behind it. I knew that we had doubt and questions to Gert for her way of thinking. I don't know these men and if they are still on the force of LPD. However, having said that I cannot find anything on behavior of the Sheriff's department. May be Gert can supply something there if she feels the need to do so. For all intent and purposes this investigation does not look bungled, but managed very well. LE are human, just as we all are and make mistakes. But we hold them in a higher position, rightfully so, and probably our expectations are at that level also.

Gert did mention past cases and her unfavorable opinion of them but I have asked her several times were these things done on Sheriff Nichols watch and from what I could ascertain none of them were.

I continue to agree with you and we can't paint LE with a wide brush just because of a very few. I still think Nichols needs to be highly commended on how he has conducted himself and this case. I have been very impressed how readily he reached out for help. As we know some agencies can be very secular and do not want outside assistance. Nichols knew this case was much larger than his force could handle. It shows me he does what is the best interest of the case and it is not all about him and his force.

imo

[JoAnn]

I have avidly followed and posted here since the murders occurred..and I have missed very few if any postings....and what I recall is that most of Gerts distrust of local LE has to do with incidents in the past, some even in her past and with family and or friends that in some instances were victims in which she felt the investigations were bungled or not investigated to the max for various different reasons.

I am sure the past incidents she speaks have influenced her feelings now, plus the fact that she and her family actually know Chris so combining the two together it is understandable how she could arrive at her feelings..I am not saying I agree with her..but that I understand how she can have the feelings she has if that is how she is basing her opinions.

Gert is pretty vocal and very adament in her belief that Chris did not or could not have done it...and in her feelings that the investigation COULD have been bungled.

I see no evidence to indicate that myself, but as I stated above I dont necessarily agree or have the same feelings as Gert. I feel as strongly that the investigation was top notch...as she feels it wasn't or MIGHT not have been.

The easiest thing to do is simply ask Gert herself WHY she feels the way she does...she is not shy and I am sure she will speak up herself when she reads the postings here that are in reference to her.

[clueless]

I have avidly followed and posted here since the murders occurred..and I have missed very few if any postings....and what I recall is that most of Gerts distrust of local LE has to do with incidents in the past, some even in her past and with family and or friends that in some instances were victims in which she felt the investigations were bungled or not investigated to the max for various different reasons.

I am sure the past incidents she speaks have influenced her feelings now, plus the fact that she and her family actually know Chris so combining the two together it is understandable how she could arrive at her feelings..I am not saying I agree with her..but that I understand how she can have the feelings she has if that is how she is basing her opinions.

Gert is pretty vocal and very adament in her belief that Chris did not or could not have done it...and in her feelings that the investigation COULD have been bungled.

I see no evidence to indicate that myself, but as I stated above I dont necessarily agree or have the same feelings as Gert. I feel as strongly that the investigation was top notch...as she feels it wasn't or MIGHT not have been.

The easiest thing to do is simply ask Gert herself WHY she feels the way she does...she is not shy and I am sure she will speak up herself when she reads the postings here that are in reference to her.

JoAnn, I think we know why Gert feels this way, I was trying to take the emotional and personal side away from the incidents she had been posting about. No Gert is not shy, but I think she can get emotional in this case (not blaming you here Gert) as we have seen with our past comments to her trying to make her see our way of things according to the facts. There are alot of reasons why she may feel this way as she if familiar with these people and the town and has access to the "underground" behavior, thinking and attitude that is there. Did not some of us "put Gert off" because of her emotional ties? Did we not become somewhat frustrated with her? Did some of us not even get concerned about her emotional views? I am not condemning Gert, I see how she views the case and am not vilifying her for that. I'm sure she could share alot more with us, but has chosen not to because of the way we have responded previously. We DEMANDED FACTS did we not? She figures why bother...they won't believe me. I was just bringing the facts in the matter to everyone's attention. Gert the floor is yours.....

[Details]

Details, I believe Gert's children and a niece, if I'm correct know Chris. Your correct in her feelings of innocent on his behalf; therefore, her reasons for his charges in this case are because of her lack of faith in LE in this area.
I guess I'm not totally understanding your point that Gert has already posted what I was looking for?...Gert had made previous posts about her lack of faith in the local LE and mentioned numerous cases, but had failed to post any with substantial facts to the errors that had been made. Putting rumor, speculation, and personal feelings aside I wanted verification. So yes, now I can see, and others here also, why she may be feeling some distrust. Hope I answered your questionI'm suggesting that if you know someone, and because you know them, do not believe they can be guilty of what they are accused of - you are naturally going to see the accusers, the investigators, as dirty anytime they find evidence against your friends. After all, what they're finding can't be true, so they must be dirty. That's how I meant that Gert had already posted what you were likely looking for - a reason for them to distrust LE.

Anyone who tells me the sky is green - I'll mistrust them - they're telling me something that I know not to be true.

[happygert]

Gert did mention past cases and her unfavorable opinion of them but I have asked her several times were these things done on Sheriff Nichols watch and from what I could ascertain none of them were.

I continue to agree with you and we can't paint LE with a wide brush just because of a very few. I still think Nichols needs to be highly commended on how he has conducted himself and this case. I have been very impressed how readily he reached out for help. As we know some agencies can be very secular and do not want outside assistance. Nichols knew this case was much larger than his force could handle. It shows me he does what is the best interest of the case and it is not all about him and his force.

imo

Yes he was the sheriff when Brian Bobb was murdered. plenty were involved in that case even had car with Brians blood in it from where they transported his body in she walked!
The Daniels kid gave a statement that he did commit the murder how ever if you commit a murder at the place the body was found you wouldnt need to transport a dead bleeding body in a car.

The Daniels kid is mentally handicapped did not understand .. But hey nichols got his conviction so who cares if others that were involved walked right?

[happygert]

I'm suggesting that if you know someone, and because you know them, do not believe they can be guilty of what they are accused of - you are naturally going to see the accusers, the investigators, as dirty anytime they find evidence against your friends. After all, what they're finding can't be true, so they must be dirty. That's how I meant that Gert had already posted what you were likely looking for - a reason for them to distrust LE.

Anyone who tells me the sky is green - I'll mistrust them - they're telling me something that I know not to be true.


I have my reasons for distrusting LE its not just because i know someone. I knew Steve Hill and considered him a friend but he murdered a young man in cold blood shot him three times and got 6 1/2 years. for premaditated murder..... THAT was WRONG. he was offered a plea for premeditaited murder when he walked out of prison IM sure Trevor son was walking in his first grade class.

So please dont please dont tell me what i know about the LOGAN COUNTY LE to be true or not!.. I really dont care what LE say they have on either one of the harris boys I want to see the facts. If facts prove they committed these awful murders then they get what ever punishment is gave to them period! If they get the DP then they will pay for there crimes with their lives like any other murderer should.

Heres another fact for you Nov 30 gerald miller Dillens dad was stopped for driving under the influence of drugs, drug paraphanillia, controlled substance. running a stop sign and no insurance. guess what to charges disappeared?
But hey i guess theres no funny business in logan county they are on the up and up...yep right when pigs fly.

[happygert]

Gert did mention past cases and her unfavorable opinion of them but I have asked her several times were these things done on Sheriff Nichols watch and from what I could ascertain none of them were.

I continue to agree with you and we can't paint LE with a wide brush just because of a very few. I still think Nichols needs to be highly commended on how he has conducted himself and this case. I have been very impressed how readily he reached out for help. As we know some agencies can be very secular and do not want outside assistance. Nichols knew this case was much larger than his force could handle. It shows me he does what is the best interest of the case and it is not all about him and his force.

imo


Explain to me how geralds charges for controlled substance and drug paraphernalia have mysteriously been dropped? Even before he went to court on these charges? Is this how above board LE work?

[GentleBreeze]

Explain to me how geralds charges for controlled substance and drug paraphernalia have mysteriously been dropped? Even before he went to court on these charges? Is this how above board LE work?

Do you have a link where they have been dropped. I thought they just caught him 10 days ago?

imo

[happygert]

Do you have a link where they have been dropped. I thought they just caught him 10 days ago?

imo

Here check it out for yourself....


http://www.co.logan.il.us/circuit_clerk/

The charges disappeared. 3 charges now. driving under ifluenece of drugs. no insurance ticket and running a stop sign.

explain it please.

[GentleBreeze]

Yes he was the sheriff when Brian Bobb was murdered. plenty were involved in that case even had car with Brians blood in it from where they transported his body in she walked!
The Daniels kid gave a statement that he did commit the murder how ever if you commit a murder at the place the body was found you wouldn't need to transport a dead bleeding body in a car.

The Daniels kid is mentally handicapped did not understand .. But hey nichols got his conviction so who cares if others that were involved walked right?

Police don't get convictions gert. A DA takes the case to court. They are the ones who decide what evidence and statements are entered. They also are the ones who make all decisions on any plea deals and who is charged and who isn't. LE has no authority to make deals whatsoever.

I am sure that Daniel's defense lawyer would have had his client evaluated by a psychiatrist if he felt he was unable to know right from wrong.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Here check it out for yourself....


http://www.co.logan.il.us/circuit_clerk/

The charges disappeared. 3 charges now. driving under influence of drugs. no insurance ticket and running a stop sign.

explain it please.

I don't know. It would be up to the DA if charges were dropped. Or maybe a Judge dismissed them for some reason.

I didn't see the actual arrest record on there. Just an information page.

imo

[happygert]

Police don't get convictions gert. A DA takes the case to court. They are the ones who decide what evidence and statements are entered. They also are the ones who make all decisions on any plea deals and who is charged and who isn't. LE has no authority to make deals whatsoever.

I am sure that Daniel's defense lawyer would have had his client evaluated by a psychiatrist if he felt he was unable to know right from wrong.

imo

LMAO well they have to see the charges dont they? So here we are right back so explain these charges being gone? DA and LE in cahoots.. That would be my guess here what he was arrested for.


http://www.lincolncourier.com/news/police_and_fire/x441562476/The-record-for-Dec-1

The Courier
Tue Dec 01, 2009, 01:02 PM CST

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Print This | ShareThis
Logan County -
Police beat
Drug and alcohol arrests
* A Logan County deputy arrested Gerald L. Miller, 53, of the 100 block of Webster Drive at 11:12 p.m. Monday at 1550th Street and 500th Avenue on charges of possession of a controlled substance, possession of drug paraphernalia and driving under the influence of drugs.


so tell me where did those charges go? where did the tickets go? out the window or maybe in the trash? Did the da office hear him in a court room ? NOPE.. like magic drug chrages disappear with a flip of the wrist just like premeditaited murders get 6 and 1/2 years in jail.

[happygert]

I don't know. It would be up to the DA if charges were dropped. Or maybe a Judge dismissed them for some reason.

I didn't see the actual arrest record on there. Just an information page.

imo

LMAO..No you dont see them they are GONE .. like smoke in a whirl wind. NO court appearence he posted bond before he went in front of JUDGE or SEEN a DA so tell me where did these charges go? who TOSSED the tickets?

[Silk]

LMAO..No you dont see them they are GONE .. like smoke in a whirl wind. NO court appearence he posted bond before he went in front of JUDGE or SEEN a DA so tell me where did these charges go? who TOSSED the tickets?

Does this mean that the arresting officer was told about dropping the said charges. WHO takes care of that. Nichols or just some detective. why would they drop these charges anyway Gert??
Seriously, why would they drop charges from this Gerald Miller..??
Please explain...WHY are they crooked with Gerald Miller...

[happygert]

Does this mean that the arresting officer was told about dropping the said charges. WHO takes care of that. Nichols or just some detective. why would they drop these charges anyway Gert??
Seriously, why would they drop charges from this Gerald Miller..??
Please explain...

Well someone had to be told to toss the tickets. I really cant see an arresting officer writing tickets for possession of a controlled substance and drug paraphernalia just to waste his time writing them. If arresting officer didn't want those charges to be brought he would have never wrote the tickets and arrested him for those in first place.

Well who if not the Judge or DA got rid of these charges? Only leaves one person who's above the deputies imo who got rid of those charges. IMO that would be the good ol up standing sheriff nichols. jmho and lets not forget sheriff nichols sister works in circuit clerks office she does the felony charges.

I wouldn't know why gerald's charges were dropped on the drugs and drug paraphernalia unless they are after bigger fish and he's a small minnow who can lead to bigger ones. Because gerlad as already done time for drugs in the past.JMHO!!

Just like still wanting to know how Rick got off with probation and a fine all the pot he was busted with..

[Silk]

Well someone had to be told to toss the tickets. I really cant see an arresting officer writing tickets for possession of a controlled substance and drug paraphernalia just to waste his time writing them. If arresting officer didn't want those charges to be brought he would have never wrote the tickets and arrested him for those in first place.

Well who if not the Judge or DA got rid of these charges? Only leaves one person who's above the deputies imo who got rid of those charges. IMO that would be the good ol up standing sheriff nichols. jmho

I wouldn't know why gerald's charges were dropped on the drugs and drug paraphernalia unless they are after bigger fish and he's a small minnow who can lead to bigger ones. Because gerlad as already done time for drugs in the past.JMHO!!

Just like still wanting to know how Rick got off with probation and a fine all the pot he was busted with..

If that be the absolute case gert, then I have seen this happen before on the police stories. However, don't they have snitches and can't they see who the snitch is if the drug lords or druggy people see the same thing you are seeing. That would be a dead give away.
If this has been going on for years then why have they NOT made any BIG busts that you can tell us.:confused:

[happygert]

If that be the absolute case gert, then I have seen this happen before on the police stories. However, don't they have snitches and can't they see who the snitch is if the drug lords or druggy people see the same thing you are seeing. That would be a dead give away.
If this has been going on for years then why have they NOT made any BIG busts that you can tell us.:confused:

Yes there has been some big drug busts in the past . Also if they think they no one will ever know who snitched on them i wouldnt be so sure of that. Everyone has the right to confront who accused them. They aslo usually send in who ever's snitching to buy the drugs from them. They usually are around for a while so no one suspects them and then sometimes it takes a year or longer before the make the bust.

But the drugs busts dont have to be local they have many contacts all over. It dont have to be in same town they live in..

So you cant really go by just how many big drug busts were done in that county.

One more thing I'm not so sure when your busted and your attorney files for discovery that the one who snitched is not in those papers.

[Silk]

Yes there has been some big drug busts in the past . Also if they think they no one will ever know who snitched on them i wouldnt be so sure of that. Everyone has the right to confront who accused them. They aslo usually send in who ever's snitching to buy the drugs from them. They usually are around for a while so no one suspects them and then sometimes it takes a year or longer before the make the bust.

But the drugs busts dont have to be local they have many contacts all over. It dont have to be in same town they live in..

So you cant really go by just how many big drug busts were done in that county.

One more thing I'm not so sure when your busted and your attorney files for discovery that the one who snitched is not in those papers.

Gert, if this information is true I need to know why you would consider these authorities crooked. It appears to me (from what you're saying) that they are using these people (Miller) as snitches. What is crooked about this. This seems to be a clear case of the LE and FBI/detectives on the drug force to go after bigger fish and in order to do that they use snitches. What is crooked. please explain. I don't get it. :confused:

[happygert]

Gert, if this information is true I need to know why you would consider these authorities crooked. It appears to me (from what you're saying) that they are using these people (Miller) as snitches. What is crooked about this. This seems to be a clear case of the LE and FBI/detectives on the drug force to go after bigger fish and in order to do that they use snitches. What is crooked. please explain. I don't get it. :confused:

For one Silk, If someone is charged with a crime and those charges are dropped so they can use that person to snitch. But they are breaking the law and still using drugs and know that the LE or The DA's are not going to do anything to them. IMO that is telling the one who keeps getting busted for the drugs and heck possible even selling drugs that the police are not going to do anything to them. So therefore imo when le and da's let the drug user keep right on buy using and selling for them to get info IMO thats a conspiracy. IMO those le and da's are no better then the drug dealer themselves.

OUR LE and DA are suppose to follow the law's not break them. and IMO This is how Rick did no time for his over 500 grams of pot and trafficing. either someone in LE helped him or maybe he was also narcing. and if he was narcing maybe someone found out who narced on them. Those people dont take to knidly to narcs' JMHO

[Silk]

For one Silk, If someone is charged with a crime and those charges are dropped so they can use that person to snitch. But they are breaking the law and still using drugs and know that the LE or The DA's are not going to do anything to them. IMO that is telling the one who keeps getting busted for the drugs and heck possible even selling drugs that the police are not going to do anything to them. So therefore imo when le and da's let the drug user keep right on buy using and selling for them to get info IMO thats a conspiracy. IMO those le and da's are no better then the drug dealer themselves.OUR LE and DA are suppose to follow the law's not break them. and IMO This is how Rick did no time for his over 500 grams of pot and trafficing

What you are saying makes a lot of sense. Is this the reason why you think these vicious murders took place over drugs. IF this is whats going on then it would be a vicious murder over drugs that went haywire. If Rick was selling and being protected then he was ultimately killed over it and LE and the D/A's office should be responsible for their irresponsible actions.
This may not make sense but do you think this is what happened. Jason and Chris slaughter that family over drugs that Rick continued to sell ??

[happygert]

What you are saying makes a lot of sense. Is this the reason why you think these vicious murders took place over drugs. IF this is whats going on then it would be a vicious murder over drugs that went haywire. If Rick was selling and being protected then he was ultimately killed over it and LE and the D/A's office should be responsible for their irresponsible actions.
This may not make sense but do you think this is what happened. Jason and Chris slaughter that family over drugs that Rick continued to sell ??

IMO this was a drug deal gone bad. Either someone was stiffed on they money that was owed or someone may have narc on someone, and they found out. I know for a fact that someone was narced on and when the discovery was got by attorney and the name of the person who narced was on the papers.

IMO there was some reason rick did not get any jail time for all the pot he was busted with. Ricks house was called the drug house. So you can take that for what it's worth. Yes I do believe when you make deals with a drug dealer to snitch on another one that they are putting that person and their families lives in jeopardy. Those people dont care who's there kids or not you're all in danger...jmho

[Silk]

IMO this was a drug deal gone bad. Either someone was stiffed on they money that was owed or someone may have narc on someone, and they found out. I know for a fact that someone was narced on and when the discovery was got by attorney and the name of the person who narced was on the papers.

IMO there was some reason rick did not get any jail time for all the pot he was busted with. Ricks house was called the drug house. So you can take that for what it's worth. Yes I do believe when you make deals with a drug dealer to snitch on another one that they are putting that person and their families lives in jeopardy. Those people dont care who's there kids or not you're all in danger...jmho

Gert, is this the reason why you absolutely believe CHRIS had no part in the slaughtering of the Gee family. Is it because he was not into heavy drugs, it had been years that he was arrested for "pot" and do you believe it is remotely possible that Jason has everything to do with the killings of the entire family.
Scenario~ do you think because they are brothers that Jason went there to collect his money owed to him and Chris was with him and an altercation happened. Then, Jason and Chris walked out and Jason grabbed his tire Iron from his car/truck or a vehicle and went back in there and Chris never went back in.
Why are you so certain that Chris had nothing directly with these murders. (aside of him being passive, quiet and just a well rounded nice guy):sneaky:

[Details]

I don't know. It would be up to the DA if charges were dropped. Or maybe a Judge dismissed them for some reason.

I didn't see the actual arrest record on there. Just an information page.

imoUsually they'd be dropped if the DA decided there wasn't enough evidence to bring to trial, or if there was a plea deal - one way drug charges get dropped is agreeing to turn over information about a drug dealer or other criminals.

The officer writes tickets for whatever he finds - but the DA has to look and decide if it's worth going to trial on - sometimes it's just not enough, or not closely enough linked, or there's a procedural error that a defense attorney will be able to use - charges are dropped all the time.

[happygert]

Gert, is this the reason why you absolutely believe CHRIS had no part in the slaughtering of the Gee family. Is it because he was not into heavy drugs, it had been years that he was arrested for "pot" and do you believe it is remotely possible that Jason has everything to do with the killings of the entire family.
Scenario~ do you think because they are brothers that Jason went there to collect his money owed to him and Chris was with him and an altercation happened. Then, Jason and Chris walked out and Jason grabbed his tire Iron from his car/truck or a vehicle and went back in there and Chris never went back in.
Why are you so certain that Chris had nothing directly with these murders. (aside of him being passive, quiet and just a well rounded nice guy):sneaky:

Yes this is the reason I don't think Chris done this. Yes, It is a possibilty that Jason had a hand in these murders. I don't know if he went to get money or drugs and something got out of hand. I dont know, but IMO if Jason was true to form he does get a little crazy when drinking. Its a very good possibility that Jason went back in the house. Its also a good possibilty that Chris went back in to see what was going on. and Somehow got blood or something on him.

I'm Not 100% sure about anything. But IMO If Jason did commit these murders Chris would not tell.

We also have to remember that there is only one weapon that the LE is testing. What did they do take turns using same weapon? IMO one weapon one person. They arent going to hand off the only weapon when they have 5 people .

[happygert]

Usually they'd be dropped if the DA decided there wasn't enough evidence to bring to trial, or if there was a plea deal - one way drug charges get dropped is agreeing to turn over information about a drug dealer or other criminals.

Yes but he never went in front of da or a judge.

[happygert]

Gert, is this the reason why you absolutely believe CHRIS had no part in the slaughtering of the Gee family. Is it because he was not into heavy drugs, it had been years that he was arrested for "pot" and do you believe it is remotely possible that Jason has everything to do with the killings of the entire family.
Scenario~ do you think because they are brothers that Jason went there to collect his money owed to him and Chris was with him and an altercation happened. Then, Jason and Chris walked out and Jason grabbed his tire Iron from his car/truck or a vehicle and went back in there and Chris never went back in.
Why are you so certain that Chris had nothing directly with these murders. (aside of him being passive, quiet and just a well rounded nice guy):sneaky:

ONE more thing. Chris nor Jason had any marks on them.. There was others who did and they were not questioned. The people who seen them was not questioned either. NO way the people who murdered the gee family walked out with out any marks. nichols telling eveyone to look for scratches hair loss because the put up one hell of a fight. when arrested no marks. Now we know they have finger nail scrapping from under victims nails and one had a clump of hair in his hand.

[Silk]

Yes this is the reason I don't think Chris done this. Yes, It is a possibilty that Jason had a hand in these murders. I don't know if he went to get money or drugs and something got out of hand. I dont know, but IMO if Jason was true to form he does get a little crazy when drinking. Its a very good possibility that Jason went back in the house. Its also a good possibilty that Chris went back in to see what was going on. and Somehow got blood or something on him.

I'm Not 100% sure about anything. But IMO If Jason did commit these murders Chris would not tell.

We also have to remember that there is only one weapon that the LE is testing. What did they do take turns using same weapon? IMO one weapon one person. They arent going to hand off the only weapon when they have 5 people .

BBM

Gert, with all due respect would it be reasonable to know that the law says, if a person does not pull the trigger but they are present when the trigger is pulled then they are just as guilty as if they pulled the trigger themselves.
Do you believe because Chris was with Jason and his DNA is everywhere (possibly) along with Jason's, then he is just as guilty.
Also, it makes sense that since it is assumed that only one weapon was used (Tire Iron) they would not have passed it back and forth. However, who's to say they have not recovered another weapon.

These are questions we may never know but, you would think they would have thrown all of the evidence together at the same time. Like they found the other stuff they discovered in the creek.
(so far, no evidence according to autopsy that anything other than a Tire Iron was used on this family. Correct?

[happygert]

[/B]

BBM

Gert, with all due respect would it be reasonable to know that the law says, if a person does not pull the trigger but they are present when the trigger is pulled then they are just as guilty as if they pulled the trigger themselves.
Do you believe because Chris was with Jason and his DNA is everywhere (possibly) along with Jason's, then he is just as guilty.
Also, it makes sense that since it is assumed that only one weapon was used (Tire Iron) they would not have passed it back and forth. However, who's to say they have not recovered another weapon.

These are questions we may never know but, you would think they would have thrown all of the evidence together at the same time. Like they found the other stuff they discovered in the creek.
(so far, no evidence according to autopsy that anything other than a Tire Iron was used on this family. Correct?

Ok IMO in some instances not all ,they are guilty but they should not be given death penalty for something they did not actually commit. Chris's dna would more likely be all over that house to begin with. He was there. Now if his dna was under the victims nails thats a different story.

Yes you'd think they would have thrown everything away together, and nothing has been mentioned about another weapon at least not yet.

[Silk]

ONE more thing. Chris nor Jason had any marks on them.. There was others who did and they were not questioned. The people who seen them was not questioned either. NO way the people who murdered the gee family walked out with out any marks. nichols telling eveyone to look for scratches hair loss because the put up one hell of a fight. when arrested no marks. Now we know they have finger nail scrapping from under victims nails and one had a clump of hair in his hand.

I don't recall Gert, did they get DNA from the victims nails that match one or both Harris boys. I don't believe we know any of those details yet.
I still don't understand anything about charging them with attempted sexual assault. Have you heard anything about that. Just asking. You don't have to answer if you don't want to.
Attempted sexual assault would be indicated if there was DNA on the 16 year old private area or very near. (sorry for being so personal)

[happygert]

I don't recall Gert, did they get DNA from the victims nails that match one or both Harris boys. I don't believe we know any of those details yet.
I still don't understand anything about charging them with attempted sexual assault. Have you heard anything about that. Just asking. You don't have to answer if you don't want to.


You'd think the dna from under the victims nails would be the first thing that LE would test. But no it hasnt been tested yet. Nor do I IMO it was something they threw in there to outrage the public. BUT the gee's werent murdered for a laptop and to rape justina imo

[Silk]

You'd think the dna from under the victims nails would be the first thing that LE would test. But no it hasnt been tested yet. Nor do I IMO it was something they threw in there to outrage the public. BUT the gee's werent murdered for a laptop and to rape justina imo

I will have to agree with you on this. I do not believe the family was slaughtered just to steal a laptop and attempt a sexual assault on Justina. In fact, if this was the case it would not have been attempted.
However, why take off with the laptop. There must be some connection of some sort with the laptop they confiscated at Jason's house. Why would Jason/Chris make sure they took the laptop.

It is sounding more to me like a drug related killing of this family. :sad:

[happygert]

I will have to agree with you on this. I do not believe the family was slaughtered just to steal a laptop and attempt a sexual assault on Justina. In fact, if this was the case it would not have been attempted.

It is sounding more to me like a drug related killing of this family. :sad:

Exactly! It would have been sexual assault . No attempted.

Yes, IMO it was drug related.

[happygert]

I will have to agree with you on this. I do not believe the family was slaughtered just to steal a laptop and attempt a sexual assault on Justina. In fact, if this was the case it would not have been attempted.
However, why take off with the laptop. There must be some connection of some sort with the laptop they confiscated at Jason's house. Why would Jason/Chris make sure they took the laptop.

It is sounding more to me like a drug related killing of this family. :sad:

Well I'm not so sure they did take off with the laptop.Why wasnt it found way before Jason and Jennifer was arrested? But however when all were in jail the laptop was found. How did the know Ruth was on computer till 1 am, If le didnt have the computer in their possesion way before it was supposed to be found at Jason's a couple weeks later?

[Silk]

Well I'm not so sure they did take off with the laptop.Why wasnt it found way before Jason and Jennifer was arrested? But however when all were in jail the laptop was found. How did the know Ruth was on computer till 1 am, If le didnt have the computer in their possesion way before it was supposed to be found at Jason's a couple weeks later?

I thought she was on the computer til approx. 1 a.m. and she was talking to someone and then everything went dead. At first they didn't know if it was Ruth or Justina but later found out it was Ruth cause the person she had been IM'ing reported it to LE, right?

[happygert]

I thought she was on the computer til approx. 1 a.m. and she was talking to someone and then everything went dead. At first they didn't know if it was Ruth or Justina but later found out it was Ruth cause the person she had been IM'ing reported it to LE, right?

Yes .. you're right so if they didnt have the computer how did they figure out it was Ruth on it? Very interesting isn't it.

[Silk]

Now, I tend to think this was premeditated for the reason that IIRC, Ruth was the only one up at that time. They came into the house only to find Ruth. Then after hearing all the commotion Rick came out of their bedroom and the kids followed behind. This is what I think I recall what may have happened.
If that's the case then both Jason and Chris could not have had the altercation unless it was a lot earlier and then they came back.
what is your thoughts on this...

[happygert]

Now, I tend to think this was premeditated for the reason that IIRC, Ruth was the only one up at that time. They came into the house only to find Ruth. Then after hearing all the commotion Rick came out of their bedroom and the kids followed behind. This is what I think I recall what may have happened.
If that's the case then both Jason and Chris could not have had the altercation unless it was a lot earlier and then they came back.
what is your thoughts on this...

I dont think it was premeditated murders. IMO if they called Rick from the bar in Lawndale imo it was for drugs. And Ruth could have been waiting up for them. Maybe rick was awake watching tv in the bedroom who knows if he was asleep for sure.

[Silk]

I dont think it was premeditated murders. IMO if they called Rick from the bar in Lawndale imo it was for drugs. And Ruth could have been waiting up for them. Maybe rick was awake watching tv in the bedroom who knows if he was asleep for sure.

Do you think they were over there in the day. IIRC, they claim that a dark SUV of some sort was there in the day and the guy had a baby with him and they heard hollering inside the house. Then the person left. Do you think that night they were at the bar and decided to call Rick and ask him for something again and went over there and it all happened after they got there.
That would mean it was not premeditated but, it sure sounds like they went over there with the intentions to hurt him/them.

[happygert]

I found this little tidbit about the Police Chief quitting the force in march. then a comment in paper.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


By Dan Tackett
The Courier
Tue Dec 08, 2009, 06:35 AM CST

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Print This | ShareThis
Lincoln, Ill. -


Lincoln Police Chief Stuart Erlenbush is leaving office March 15.

"I've seen enough," Erlenbush said Monday after a city council meeting. "I'm ready to be retired again."

Erlenbush's letter of resignation was read Monday during a council meeting, but the chief said he had already personally notified Mayor Keith Snyder and the aldermen prior to the meeting.
After Erlenbush's short resignation letter was read, Snyder said he has selected Aldermen Jeff Hoinacki and Marty Neitzel to assist him in a search for a new police chief.


Very Interesting that he's stepping down now after the Gee murders. Wonder what he's seen enough of? Seems to me Nichols was slapping him on the back and saying how well they worked together. No friction there. Well IMO somethings going on that he's seen enough of.

Maybe he seen enough of the way Logan County really works.




loganco4 days agoReport Abuse
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Well I can't say I'm sad that the Chief is stepping down. Can we please bring in a Chief that is going to bring in new ideas and clean up this corrupted police force we call 'LPD'? I know this is Lincoln, we will just promote from within and the new chief will keep the same policies and the same drunken force will be running around like Barney Fife.

[happygert]

Print This | ShareThis
Lincoln, Ill. -
The defense team for Christopher Harris, the man accused of killing five members of the Gee family with his brother Jason Harris, filed three motions in Logan County Court Thursday.

The motions included a petition to seal records, one to prohibit consumption of DNA evidence and preserve DNA evidence for independent testing by the defense, and another request for preservation of evidence at the Gee family residence in Beason.

In the defendant’s motion to seal records, the defense sites that it has only received a portion of the “voluminous” evidence and just a small portion of the expected discovery. The defense asks that all search warrant information remain sealed.

The defense argues that unsealing the motions before full discovery is released will “seriously jeopardize and detrimentally affect the defense’s ability to investigate and interview witnesses … The public release of said information will have a chilling effect upon witnesses and seriously hinder the defense’s ability to locate, interview and obtain truthful, untainted, and uninfluenced information from said potential witnesses.”

Defense attorneys James Ellmore, Patrick Timoney and Matthew J. Maurer argue releasing the search warrant information will jeopardize Harris’ ability to obtain a fair trial. While the defense team recognizes the public’s access to information, they say it is not without limitations.

“The public’s right to access is not absolute and the court has supervisory power over its own records and files and may deny access under appropriate circumstances,” states the motion. “The court must balance the public’s right to access against the defendant’s right to a fair trial and the prejudice that may result to the defendant from the public’s access to the files.”

Don Craven, attorney for the State Journal-Register in Springfield, The Pantagraph of Bloomington and the Decatur Herald and Review has already appealed the state’s motion to keep the warrants sealed. Circuit Judge Thomas Harris cited that the investigation is still ongoing and the search warrants should remain sealed. The defense is asking the court to take into consideration its own investigation.

“Christopher James Harris respectfully requests that the court continue to seal those documents previously ordered sealed herein and seal future search warrant petitions and related documents … until the defense has completed their investigation herein and for such further relief as the court deems just and appropriate.”

In the motion for preservation of evidence at the Gee family residence, the defense notes that no one on Harris’s behalf had an opportunity to view the Gee family residence for the purposes of inspecting, collecting and preserving evidence to adequately defend Harris.

The defense asks the court “enter an order obligating the People to maintain and otherwise adequately preserve the interior, exterior of the Gee family residence, as well as the grounds upon which the residence sits, and for such further relief as justice and equity require.”

In the motion to preserve DNA evidence, the defense mentions a letter from forensic scientist Amanda Humke, who said, “conducting DNA analysis on this evidence will consume (destroy) the samples and prevent further testing.”

The defense states, “the consumption of all DNA evidence requested by the forensic science laboratory will prevent further independent testing by the defense and violate the defendant’s due process rights and right to a fair trial pursuant to the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Illinois.”

In laymen’s terms, the defense wants to make sure it has an equal opportunity to conduct sample tests on all evidence before it is destroyed.

No date has been set to hear the motions, but a status hearing has been set for Christopher Harris on Dec. 22, when these issues will likely be heard.

http://www.lincolncourier.com/news/x819330831/Harris-files-motions-in-Gee-case?popular=true

[IM4Truth]

Yes .. you're right so if they didnt have the computer how did they figure out it was Ruth on it? Very interesting isn't it.

Because the person she had been IM'ing reported it to LE, right? I'm sure once the person on the other end of the IM heard about the deaths, she called LE immediately! I would have anyway!

[IM4Truth]

I would like to clarify my position on the LE issue.
I am in total support of the men in blue and always have been. They put their lives on the line at all times for our safety and well being. Sometimes giving the ultimate sacrifice. My reason for bringing this post into view was in answer to MY question of why Gert was so adamant about LE being corrupt in Logan Co. I was wanting to see what was behind it. I knew that we had doubt and questions to Gert for her way of thinking. I don't know these men and if they are still on the force of LPD. However, having said that I cannot find anything on behavior of the Sheriff's department. May be Gert can supply something there if she feels the need to do so. For all intent and purposes this investigation does not look bungled, but managed very well. LE are human, just as we all are and make mistakes. But we hold them in a higher position, rightfully so, and probably our expectations are at that level also.


Is there a LE anywhere that is not corrupt somewhere?

[GentleBreeze]

I don't think it was premeditated murders. IMO if they called Rick from the bar in Lawndale imo it was for drugs. And Ruth could have been waiting up for them. Maybe rick was awake watching tv in the bedroom who knows if he was asleep for sure.

Legally all of these murders are first degree felony murders because they were done while the perps were in the commission of committing other felonies. In the indictment it said that they "intentionally" did these murders. So I think they have evidence that supports that.

It most assuredly was as premeditated as it could get when they decided that they were going to try and kill everyone in that house and leave no witnesses behind. That is about as cold and calculating as it gets. Plenty of aforethought went into the murderous acts as they killed them one by one.

The forensic crime scene re-constructionists will be able to know which victim was killed first. We have no idea if it was Rick Gee or another defenseless victim.

The very idea that these murders had to do with drugs is appalling if true. To slaughter an entire family including a woman and children and leave a little girl forever changed for life just over drugs???????????????

There is more to this case than just drugs.

imo

[IM4Truth]

I found this little tidbit about the Police Chief quitting the force in march. then a comment in paper.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


By Dan Tackett
The Courier
Tue Dec 08, 2009, 06:35 AM CST

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Print This | ShareThis
Lincoln, Ill. -


Lincoln Police Chief Stuart Erlenbush is leaving office March 15.

"I've seen enough," Erlenbush said Monday after a city council meeting. "I'm ready to be retired again."

Erlenbush's letter of resignation was read Monday during a council meeting, but the chief said he had already personally notified Mayor Keith Snyder and the aldermen prior to the meeting.
After Erlenbush's short resignation letter was read, Snyder said he has selected Aldermen Jeff Hoinacki and Marty Neitzel to assist him in a search for a new police chief.


Very Interesting that he's stepping down now after the Gee murders. Wonder what he's seen enough of? Seems to me Nichols was slapping him on the back and saying how well they worked together. No friction there. Well IMO somethings going on that he's seen enough of.

Maybe he seen enough of the way Logan County really works.




loganco4 days agoReport Abuse
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Well I can't say I'm sad that the Chief is stepping down. Can we please bring in a Chief that is going to bring in new ideas and clean up this corrupted police force we call 'LPD'? I know this is Lincoln, we will just promote from within and the new chief will keep the same policies and the same drunken force will be running around like Barney Fife.

My guess is that he is stepping down because it is his SECOND retirement! The first from the Illinois State Police. Wasn't there an interim after that retirement and when he was hired as Chief of Lincoln PD? What did he do then? Wasn't it some type of auditing of the police departments? I'm not sure on that. Anyway, isn't it time for him to retire? He was there through the Schneider murders and now the Gees, don't you think you would have seen enough by now too?

[IM4Truth]

Do you think they were over there in the day. IIRC, they claim that a dark SUV of some sort was there in the day and the guy had a baby with him and they heard hollering inside the house. Then the person left. Do you think that night they were at the bar and decided to call Rick and ask him for something again and went over there and it all happened after they got there.
That would mean it was not premeditated but, it sure sounds like they went over there with the intentions to hurt him/them.

What about a dark SUV? Where did you read that? I've been out of the loop and missed a lot. Is there a link or was it discussion on the Pantagraph board?

[happygert]

Is there a LE anywhere that is not corrupt somewhere?

So then you agree that logan county is corrupt.

[happygert]

My guess is that he is stepping down because it is his SECOND retirement! The first from the Illinois State Police. Wasn't there an interim after that retirement and when he was hired as Chief of Lincoln PD? What did he do then? Wasn't it some type of auditing of the police departments? I'm not sure on that. Anyway, isn't it time for him to retire? He was there through the Schneider murders and now the Gees, don't you think you would have seen enough by now too?

My guess is he's seen enough corruption in this county. Maybe he thought the second time around it would be different.

[happygert]

Legally all of these murders are first degree felony murders because they were done while the perps were in the commission of committing other felonies. In the indictment it said that they "intentionally" did these murders. So I think they have evidence that supports that.

It most assuredly was as premeditated as it could get when they decided that they were going to try and kill everyone in that house and leave no witnesses behind. That is about as cold and calculating as it gets. Plenty of aforethought went into the murderous acts as they killed them one by one.

The forensic crime scene re-constructionists will be able to know which victim was killed first. We have no idea if it was Rick Gee or another defenseless victim.

The very idea that these murders had to do with drugs is appalling if true. To slaughter an entire family including a woman and children and leave a little girl forever changed for life just over drugs???????????????

There is more to this case than just drugs.

imo

maybe you dont know who was murdered first.

Link please where there is recontructionist.
Link please where it said these murders where premediatated..

[happygert]

Because the person she had been IM'ing reported it to LE, right? I'm sure once the person on the other end of the IM heard about the deaths, she called LE immediately! I would have anyway!

if you say so..

[happygert]

Legally all of these murders are first degree felony murders because they were done while the perps were in the commission of committing other felonies. In the indictment it said that they "intentionally" did these murders. So I think they have evidence that supports that.

It most assuredly was as premeditated as it could get when they decided that they were going to try and kill everyone in that house and leave no witnesses behind. That is about as cold and calculating as it gets. Plenty of aforethought went into the murderous acts as they killed them one by one.

The forensic crime scene re-constructionists will be able to know which victim was killed first. We have no idea if it was Rick Gee or another defenseless victim.

The very idea that these murders had to do with drugs is appalling if true. To slaughter an entire family including a woman and children and leave a little girl forever changed for life just over drugs???????????????

There is more to this case than just drugs.

imo


However appalling it is. When you mess with drugs this stuff happens , To the dealers, snitches ,there family, kids wives, parents, brother and sisters. make no difference who's there. They leave no one. They use your family to make an example out of. If you dont pay up, or you snitch. They come after you. Happens every day.

IMO dealers are appalling and rick should have done jail time for his crime but he didn't. IMO rick put his family in danger when he chose to deal drugs.
IMO he was either narcing on bigger dealers or someone on inside LE helped get him off. you dont just walk with probation and fine when your charged with over 500 grams of pot and a trafficking charge. something smells to high heaven here. JMO

[GentleBreeze]

maybe you don't know who was murdered first.

Link please where there is constructionist.
Link please where it said these murders where premediatated..

I am just giving my opinion gert. No need to get all snarky.

No one invades the home of another wielding a tire iron for a friendly non violent visit.

Since so many agencies were involved in this case imo there were forensic reconstructionist that will tie the overall crime scene together. There are so many ways to actually look at the crime scene and figure out what transpired.

But I should not have used the word "intentionally" the indictments handed down used the word "knowing" the act would cause the deaths of the victims. Now that sounds pretty darn premeditated to me. JMO though.http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/pantagraph.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/f/cc/156/fcc1562c-c415-11de-827f-001cc4c03286.pdf.pdf?_dc=1256770958

I don't know how someone would unintentionally try to murder six people. The law gives no amount of time for the aforethought to be formed for premeditation. If they decided right then and there they were going to murder them all then that is premeditation. One has to have a thought process formed before something is carried out and it is only logical since so many of these victims received the same fate from these thugs that premeditation was most assuredly formed.

IMO

[clueless]

Is there a LE anywhere that is not corrupt somewhere?

Maybe Mayberry. No seriously, the naive side of me wants to believe yes...somewhere. It's just like churches. I use to feel that was a sanctuary, but after all the reports of child abuse, and BTK, etc., I realized they are only microcosms of our society. Good and evil. I don't think I would have what it takes to see what they do everyday. If I watch too much crime TV or even the news sometimes I have to turn it off for a while. These men and women can't do that.

[Silk]

I am just giving my opinion gert. No need to get all snarky.

No one invades the home of another wielding a tire iron for a friendly non violent visit.

Since so many agencies were involved in this case imo there were forensic reconstructionist that will tie the overall crime scene together. There are so many ways to actually look at the crime scene and figure out what transpired.

But I should not have used the word "intentionally" the indictments handed down used the word "knowing" the act would cause the deaths of the victims. Now that sounds pretty darn premeditated to me. JMO though.http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/pantagraph.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/f/cc/156/fcc1562c-c415-11de-827f-001cc4c03286.pdf.pdf?_dc=1256770958

I don't know how someone would unintentionally try to murder six people. The law gives no amount of time for the aforethought to be formed for premeditation. If they decided right then and there they were going to murder them all then that is premeditation. One has to have a thought process formed before something is carried out and it is only logical since so many of these victims received the same fate from these thugs that premeditation was most assuredly formed.

IMO

Good morning Ms. Gentle...
I'm curious. Are you in law enforcement or a D/A..I read a lot of your posts and I'm wondering if I may be correct.:smile:

[JoAnn]

However appalling it is. When you mess with drugs this stuff happens , To the dealers, snitches ,there family, kids wives, parents, brother and sisters. make no difference who's there. They leave no one. They use your family to make an example out of. If you dont pay up, or you snitch. They come after you. Happens every day.

IMO dealers are appalling and rick should have done jail time for his crime but he didn't. IMO rick put his family in danger when he chose to deal drugs.
IMO he was either narcing on bigger dealers or someone on inside LE helped get him off. you dont just walk with probation and fine when your charged with over 500 grams of pot and a trafficking charge. something smells to high heaven here. JMO

IMO I suppose there are tons of reasons a slap on the wrist was handed out to Rick..he could have given them something they wanted..or he could have been an informant...or LE could have had a shakey case to prove..etc etc...so many things..all we can do is guess...how LONG ago was that incident? I mean was it recently or was it years ago?...just curiosity on my part.

[JoAnn]

Maybe Mayberry. No seriously, the naive side of me wants to believe yes...somewhere. It's just like churches. I use to feel that was a sanctuary, but after all the reports of child abuse, and BTK, etc., I realized they are only microcosms of our society. Good and evil. I don't think I would have what it takes to see what they do everyday. If I watch too much crime TV or even the news sometimes I have to turn it off for a while. These men and women can't do that.

I hate it when people generalize to include "everybody"...and yet I know it wasnt really meant as each and every person in LE..but it does "ruffle me feathers a bit" when I read generalized statements like that.

Police officers and firemen put their lives on the line every single moment they are duty..they are called on and expected to perform miracles and are the first to be called when someone needs help and the first to be blamed or criticized when something doesnt turn out to the satisfaction and expectation of the public and yet the people that scream and curse LE the most, are again the first that call LE when they themselves need help.

Do any of you that post here, now what it is like to wear a badge, to walk out into the public and become a savior in one hand...and a target in the other. To search for a lost child, or cover a horrible car accident. Or, each time a traffic stop occurs, there is a tremendous risk as the officer walks up to that car window..each time a police officer knocks on a door to a house...it is not unreasonable to think a shotgun blast could answer the knock. Each time a officer responds to a family disturbance..high risk situation for all involved. So yes I am sure there are BAD LE in any department...that is not unreasonable to think that..but please dont label all Le as being corrupt or bad..those are few and far between but darken the entire profession.

OK I said my piece... my feathers are "unruffled now"..lol

[clueless]

JoAnn, I had a family member in the FD and two of my classmates were in LE. One a Statie and the other a Chief of Police. There have been times in my life when those in blue had been there for me personally and the thanks and gratitude could never be expressed. Yes, I have thought about what their lives must be like, especially the way things are today. My ex when we first met thought about going that route and I remember freaking...didn't know if I wanted that feeling of worrying every moment. And I totally agree with you that the "bad" ones shine a bad light on the rest. Sometimes I wonder did it just go to their heads or was it their way of projecting the stress. A few forget they are serving the public from which they get their pay.

[Details]

Maybe Mayberry. No seriously, the naive side of me wants to believe yes...somewhere. It's just like churches. I use to feel that was a sanctuary, but after all the reports of child abuse, and BTK, etc., I realized they are only microcosms of our society. Good and evil. I don't think I would have what it takes to see what they do everyday. If I watch too much crime TV or even the news sometimes I have to turn it off for a while. These men and women can't do that.LE as a whole isn't corrupt - just as not all teachers are pedophiles, not all priests are dirty, etc. Not even most, not remotely. Nearly all are good people doing the best they can - and there are so many of them that we don't even bother reporting their deeds in the papers.

The bad ones are rare - and prosecuted - and that's how we hear so much about them, and so little about the good ones. But nothing - absolutely nothing - can make any group entirely pure - criminals come in, they speak and look the same as the good guys. It's not really something where you can expect even the best organization in the world to be able to detect the bad guys. They'll show up where they choose to go, and until they do something, they cannot be spotted. Same applies to people - how often do we hear even the closest family of a serial killer, rapist, etc. saying how they'd never think he could kill or hurt anyone?

[clueless]

LE as a whole isn't corrupt - just as not all teachers are pedophiles, not all priests are dirty, etc. Not even most, not remotely. Nearly all are good people doing the best they can - and there are so many of them that we don't even bother reporting their deeds in the papers.

The bad ones are rare - and prosecuted - and that's how we hear so much about them, and so little about the good ones. But nothing - absolutely nothing - can make any group entirely pure - criminals come in, they speak and look the same as the good guys. It's not really something where you can expect even the best organization in the world to be able to detect the bad guys. They'll show up where they choose to go, and until they do something, they cannot be spotted. Same applies to people - how often do we hear even the closest family of a serial killer, rapist, etc. saying how they'd never think he could kill or hurt anyone?

Details, if you are referring to my post, please reread as I did not say all of any group was corrupt, but a reflection of our society which is both good and evil. Not saying evil as in serial killer, but with flaws (doing wrong). I believe most of us were raised to "respect your elders and authority." I was, but I was also told these people are not given the right to bully, intimidate and disrespect me. That goes for teacher, preacher and law officials...and any one else in authority. If we let those few get away with it, then we would all be still speaking with a British accent and little Johnny wouldn't have to feel "embarrassed or belittled" because someone in authority touched his dinky dink. I was given that talk when a third grade teacher slapped me in the face and called me a liar in front of the class for something I did not do. I was crushed. My mother reamed her a good one and had a meeting with the superintendent of the school board. As I said previously, I am behind the men in blue, but I will not let anyone disrespect me or a child just because the person is in authority and thinks they can get away with it. Too many men in uniform have spilled their blood for it to be otherwise.

[GentleBreeze]

However appalling it is. When you mess with drugs this stuff happens , To the dealers, snitches ,there family, kids wives, parents, brother and sisters. make no difference who's there. They leave no one. They use your family to make an example out of. If you don't pay up, or you snitch. They come after you. Happens every day.

IMO dealers are appalling and rick should have done jail time for his crime but he didn't. IMO rick put his family in danger when he chose to deal drugs.
IMO he was either narcing on bigger dealers or someone on inside LE helped get him off. you don't just walk with probation and fine when your charged with over 500 grams of pot and a trafficking charge. something smells to high heaven here. JMO

I am not quite sure what your theory is on the drug angle. Are you saying Rick was snitching on Jason and Chris or the heavy duty drug dealers sent Jason and Chris there to murder them all?

I do agree that we see drug dealers murdering those who may have snitched or shortchanged them on their money for drugs but I cant remember one case where they came inside the home and individually bludgeoned to death all family members. Since you say it happens everyday, do you have a link where drug dealers did their crime using this method? The ones I have read about the victims were either shot execution style or the victims' houses were burned to the ground with the family members inside. Kinda odd to me that a drug dealer would use a tire iron in order to kill an entire family. That is a crime that shows it was up close and very personal imo for the perps. Drug dealers don't seem to be filled with emotions...... that is why most of the time if they murder it is cold and methodical by a large caliber handgun of their choice.

I am not going to berate a dead man. Especially when the drug charge was in the 90s and it is almost 2010. Had Rick been charged with drug trafficking before the one in the 90s? Often if it is a first time for that type of offense the defendant it put on probation.

But in the end, in our country, even if someone was working with LE for whatever reason, no one, not one soul, has a right to invade a private home and viciously try to murder everyone inside.

We will see eventually what the true motives were when the case comes to trial. I still continue to believe that much has been learned once the laptop was found and it will be forensically analyzed by a computer expert.

I think that something is very sinister about this case that is known only to the DA and LE at this time. Something that is going to be appalling and shocking beyond the brutal murders themselves and imo it isn't going to have anything to do with rivalry between drug dealers and snitches.

imo

[IM4Truth]

So then you agree that logan county is corrupt.

Not entirely, no. There are corrupt people everywhere, doesn't matter where you work. I do not think there is anything corrupt about this investigation though.

[IM4Truth]

I am not quite sure what your theory is on the drug angle. Are you saying Rick was snitching on Jason and Chris or the heavy duty drug dealers sent Jason and Chris there to murder them all?

I do agree that we see drug dealers murdering those who may have snitched or shortchanged them on their money for drugs but I cant remember one case where they came inside the home and individually bludgeoned to death all family members. Since you say it happens everyday, do you have a link where drug dealers did their crime using this method? The ones I have read about the victims were either shot execution style or the victims' houses were burned to the ground with the family members inside. Kinda odd to me that a drug dealer would use a tire iron in order to kill an entire family. That is a crime that shows it was up close and very personal imo for the perps. Drug dealers don't seem to be filled with emotions...... that is why most of the time if they murder it is cold and methodical by a large caliber handgun of their choice.

I am not going to berate a dead man. Especially when the drug charge was in the 90s and it is almost 2010. Had Rick been charged with drug trafficking before the one in the 90s? Often if it is a first time for that type of offense the defendant it put on probation.

But in the end, in our country, even if someone was working with LE for whatever reason, no one, not one soul, has a right to invade a private home and viciously try to murder everyone inside.

We will see eventually what the true motives were when the case comes to trial. I still continue to believe that much has been learned once the laptop was found and it will be forensically analyzed by a computer expert.

I think that something is very sinister about this case that is known only to the DA and LE at this time. Something that is going to be appalling and shocking beyond the brutal murders themselves and imo it isn't going to have anything to do with rivalry between drug dealers and snitches.

imo

Very well stated GentleBreeze. As they say "everything will come out in the wash". But when the truth prevails, there will still be those who refuse to believe it.

[IM4Truth]

My guess is he's seen enough corruption in this county. Maybe he thought the second time around it would be different.

If there is so much corruption in the county, why don't you as a citizen gather up all of the information you have and submit it to the ISP or the FBI? Or do you think they are all corrupt too? You could submit it all anonymously; but get all your ducks in a row and document everything that you know. Get an investigation started to clean it all up. Anyway, signing out for a few days. Catch ya all later.

[Silk]

I am not quite sure what your theory is on the drug angle. Are you saying Rick was snitching on Jason and Chris or the heavy duty drug dealers sent Jason and Chris there to murder them all?

I do agree that we see drug dealers murdering those who may have snitched or shortchanged them on their money for drugs but I cant remember one case where they came inside the home and individually bludgeoned to death all family members. Since you say it happens everyday, do you have a link where drug dealers did their crime using this method? The ones I have read about the victims were either shot execution style or the victims' houses were burned to the ground with the family members inside. Kinda odd to me that a drug dealer would use a tire iron in order to kill an entire family. That is a crime that shows it was up close and very personal imo for the perps. Drug dealers don't seem to be filled with emotions...... that is why most of the time if they murder it is cold and methodical by a large caliber handgun of their choice.

I am not going to berate a dead man. Especially when the drug charge was in the 90s and it is almost 2010. Had Rick been charged with drug trafficking before the one in the 90s? Often if it is a first time for that type of offense the defendant it put on probation.

But in the end, in our country, even if someone was working with LE for whatever reason, no one, not one soul, has a right to invade a private home and viciously try to murder everyone inside.

We will see eventually what the true motives were when the case comes to trial. I still continue to believe that much has been learned once the laptop was found and it will be forensically analyzed by a computer expert.

I think that something is very sinister about this case that is known only to the DA and LE at this time. Something that is going to be appalling and shocking beyond the brutal murders themselves and imo it isn't going to have anything to do with rivalry between drug dealers and snitches.

imo

Good post.

[GentleBreeze]

Very well stated GentleBreeze. As they say "everything will come out in the wash". But when the truth prevails, there will still be those who refuse to believe it.

TYVM!

I hope and pray that full justice is done for the entire Gee family and I sincerely believe it will come to pass. Truth will prevail.

To this day I think about these three children who lost their lives and little Tabitha who is forever changed by the evil acts preyed upon her and her family. I think about how they had to be so fearful of what they knew was coming and it haunts me.

Bludgeoning cases are the most brutal imo and this one and the one done in Georgia has greatly affected me. It takes a special type of killer mentality to use this type of method imo.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Good post.

Thank you so much Silk.:smile:

[clueless]

Something went terribly wrong. Chris was just starting to go back to school...things looked fine and then all of a sudden he and his brother are charged with these brutal murders. I think they went over there to get that laptop, weapon(s) in tow to threaten and all hell broke loose. I can't reason the attempted sexual assault on Justina, unless that is part of what's on that computer. However it is tied in, LE must feel they have proof...therefore the charges. Maybe Ruth was IMing someone about it that night and whoever she was conversing with told LE upon hearing of the murders. Hence, the search for the laptop. I keep wondering maybe something was on Justina's cell phone (pics) and she showed some of her classmates. Maybe she told someone at school if Jason and/or Chris had approached her. ... Just because this was only a few weeks after school started. Could be something or nothing at all in that scenario. Did we confirm it was the parents laptop or Justina's? Would Justina be required to take the laptop to school for some reason? I know that Sara's involvement has been explained as far as the charges on her, but I still think it awkward (hinky meter) she being there when all this went down. Just a feeling. Could there have been a compromise of some sort on her behalf? JMO

[clueless]

One other thought. Apparently Jason and Chris were outdoorsman. I wonder if they had guns.... I'm thinking probably. Only two reasons I can think of for them not using those as weapons that night.
1. They did not want the noise.

2. They thought the tire iron would be sufficent for threating to reach their objection.

????

[Silk]

One other thought. Apparently Jason and Chris were outdoorsman. I wonder if they had guns.... I'm thinking probably. Only two reasons I can think of for them not using those as weapons that night.
1. They did not want the noise.

2. They thought the tire iron would be sufficent for threating to reach their objection.

????

I have a few reasons why a rifle or shotgun would not want to be used.

1) Yes, the noise and numerous shots not just a single shot. and...
2) The perp would not want his Rifle/shotgun to be Identified/traced.

3) The perps had no Idea at that moment they were on their way to kill someone until they got there. The tire Iron was the only thing thought of when the time came and perps were going to kill someone. (s)

[clueless]

Snipped from Silk :

I thought she was on the computer til approx. 1 a.m. and she was talking to someone and then everything went dead. At first they didn't know if it was Ruth or Justina but later found out it was Ruth cause the person she had been IM'ing reported it to LE, right?
__________________
Now, I tend to think this was premeditated for the reason that IIRC, Ruth was the only one up at that time. They came into the house only to find Ruth. Then after hearing all the commotion Rick came out of their bedroom and the kids followed behind. This is what I think I recall what may have happened. If that's the case then both Jason and Chris could not have had the altercation unless it was a lot earlier and then they came back.
what is your thoughts on this...

Do you think they were over there in the day. IIRC, they claim that a dark SUV of some sort was there in the day and the guy had a baby with him and they heard hollering inside the house. Then the person left. Do you think that night they were at the bar and decided to call Rick and ask him for something again and went over there and it all happened after they got there.

That would mean it was not premeditated but, it sure sounds like they went over there with the intentions to hurt him/them.
----------------------------------------
I'm thinking these statements are from rumors you have heard? Is that correct for me to assume?

"This is what I think I recall what may have happened. "

"They claim" Is this local townspeople?

Silk--the whole last paragraph....Are you saying or connecting the SUV with one of the brothers? Jason?
Do you have any speculation to who owns the SUV?
I don't believe this vehicle has been mentioned previously.

TIA for your response.

[Silk]

Snipped from Silk :

I thought she was on the computer til approx. 1 a.m. and she was talking to someone and then everything went dead. At first they didn't know if it was Ruth or Justina but later found out it was Ruth cause the person she had been IM'ing reported it to LE, right?
__________________
Now, I tend to think this was premeditated for the reason that IIRC, Ruth was the only one up at that time. They came into the house only to find Ruth. Then after hearing all the commotion Rick came out of their bedroom and the kids followed behind. This is what I think I recall what may have happened. If that's the case then both Jason and Chris could not have had the altercation unless it was a lot earlier and then they came back.
what is your thoughts on this...



Do you think they were over there in the day. IIRC, [B]they claim that a dark SUV of some sort was there in the day and the guy had a baby with him and they heard hollering inside the house. Then the person left. Do you think that night they were at the bar and decided to call Rick and ask him for something again and went over there and it all happened after they got there.

That would mean it was not premeditated but, it sure sounds like they went over there with the intentions to hurt him/them.
----------------------------------------
I'm thinking these statements are from rumors you have heard? Is that correct for me to assume?

"This is what I think I recall what may have happened. "

"They claim" Is this local townspeople?

Silk--the whole last paragraph....Are you saying or connecting the SUV with one of the brothers? Jason?
Do you have any speculation to who owns the SUV?
I don't believe this vehicle has been mentioned previously.

TIA for your response.

Yes clueless. I don't know if I read it in the pantagraph or if I heard first hand. A dark SUV was spotted outside the Gee's house and a guy with a baby came out and got into his car (after hollering was heard) on that same Sunday.
Jason has a dark SUV which was seen on a my space pic in the background and Jason and Jennifer have a small baby.

[JoAnn]

I have a few reasons why a rifle or shotgun would not want to be used.

1) Yes, the noise and numerous shots not just a single shot. and...
2) The perp would not want his Rifle/shotgun to be Identified/traced.

3) The perps had no Idea at that moment they were on their way to kill someone until they got there. The tire Iron was the only thing thought of when the time came and perps were going to kill someone. (s)


I do have thoughts myself that they may not have actually went there intending to massacre everyone...that the choice of weapon was more of a convenience...since it was right there in the vehicle..and that they took it expecting a confrontation or took it to threaten or maybe destroy something..and things went way way wrong...we dont really know if that was the only weapon involved, we only know it was the only weapon we have knowledge of.

If they did indeed go there to get that computer, the tire iron may have been meant as protection for them instead of a weapon..maybe they expected a confrontation and grabbed the tire iron as a last thought before they entered that house...or of course maybe they really did take it planning on killing the entire household...but logic tells me if your planning on killing a entire household, your going to be armed better than a tire iron..or so I would imagine...so something tells me the killings were not the actual motive in them going there that night..that the killings resulted out of WHY they went there and things just went crazy...way way crazy. There is a LOT we don't know..and we may never know everything. I have played it out in my mind so often, and still come up with the above thoughts..subject to change of course if any other info is released to us. It always ends with the same thoughts ...Why why why?

[GentleBreeze]

I do have thoughts myself that they may not have actually went there intending to massacre everyone...that the choice of weapon was more of a convenience...since it was right there in the vehicle..and that they took it expecting a confrontation or took it to threaten or maybe destroy something..and things went way way wrong...we don't really know if that was the only weapon involved, we only know it was the only weapon we have knowledge of.

If they did indeed go there to get that computer, the tire iron may have been meant as protection for them instead of a weapon..maybe they expected a confrontation and grabbed the tire iron as a last thought before they entered that house...or of course maybe they really did take it planning on killing the entire household...but logic tells me if your planning on killing a entire household, your going to be armed better than a tire iron..or so I would imagine...so something tells me the killings were not the actual motive in them going there that night..that the killings resulted out of WHY they went there and things just went crazy...way way crazy. There is a LOT we don't know..and we may never know everything. I have played it out in my mind so often, and still come up with the above thoughts..subject to change of course if any other info is released to us. It always ends with the same thoughts ...Why why why?

Sometimes I think in particular cases the "whys" are even more puzzling than in other cases and even after it goes to trial and the motive theory is known the "whys" remain just as much of a puzzle as when we first wondered. When this case comes to trial I think it will stretch our imaginations to even begin to understand how someone could viciously murder 2 adults, three children and attempt to kill a 3 year old child or why they would do such a horrible thing. Often I find the motive as senseless as the crimes themselves.

I think a tire iron is a very foreboding sinister weapon. The very thought of it being used where bones would be crushed, flesh ripped and death so brutal makes me have chills. I think I would rather be shot or stabbed than be bludgeoned to death by an unrelenting weapon of solid steel. (shiver)

I just do not see the entering of the home with a tire iron in hand as something that was just to scare the occupants inside since everyone of them was attacked with this tire iron as far as we know now. There was a reason they entered that home with that weapon and that they were all attacked by this weapon and it wasn't to call a bluff imo. It would be the perfect weapon for a killer to use as a bludgeoning weapon. I expect grave damage was done by the tip of the tire iron too that has a sharp edge.

Imo they used this weapon because they went in when they thought they were sleeping and vulnerable. If Ruth was still up and on the computer then she certainly could not take the weapon away from either of these two strong young brutes. She may have even had her back to them and never saw them until it was too late. They could have kiled her within seconds of entering.

Murdered Cpl. Maria Lauterbach was struck once in the head with a tire iron and she had a large hole in her skull right above her left ear.

I think they picked this weapon because it was silent but deadly and they knew there would be no way the victims could ever fight back when they had no way to protect themselves from the horrific blows. It would not surprise me if some of the victims did awaken at the moment of attack that they tried to shield themselves and would have broken arms, crushed hands or fingers as the tire iron was wielded.

In other mass murder bludgeoning cases usually the neighbors hear nothing and the position of the victims can be still in the sleeping position even though the perp went room to room murdering them one by one. That shows me that one mighty blow to the skull can render someone either unconscious or near death and dying. There is no time to react but a few moments or so imo because the bludgeoner usually strikes multiple blows to make sure the victim is dead.

So imo they used it because it was silent and deadly.

imo

[Silk]

Sometimes I think in particular cases the "whys" are even more puzzling than in other cases and even after it goes to trial and the motive theory is known the "whys" remain just as much of a puzzle as when we first wondered. When this case comes to trial I think it will stretch our imaginations to even begin to understand how someone could viciously murder 2 adults, three children and attempt to kill a 3 year old child or why they would do such a horrible thing. Often I find the motive as senseless as the crimes themselves.

I think a tire iron is a very foreboding sinister weapon. The very thought of it being used where bones would be crushed, flesh ripped and death so brutal makes me have chills. I think I would rather be shot or stabbed than be bludgeoned to death by an unrelenting weapon of solid steel. (shiver)

I just do not see the entering of the home with a tire iron in hand as something that was just to scare the occupants inside since everyone of them was attacked with this tire iron as far as we know now. There was a reason they entered that home with that weapon and that they were all attacked by this weapon and it wasn't to call a bluff imo. It would be the perfect weapon for a killer to use as a bludgeoning weapon. I expect grave damage was done by the tip of the tire iron too that has a sharp edge.

Imo they used this weapon because they went in when they thought they were sleeping and vulnerable. If Ruth was still up and on the computer then she certainly could not take the weapon away from either of these two strong young brutes. She may have even had her back to them and never saw them until it was too late. They could have kiled her within seconds of entering.

Murdered Cpl. Maria Lauterbach was struck once in the head with a tire iron and she had a large hole in her skull right above her left ear.

I think they picked this weapon because it was silent but deadly and they knew there would be no way the victims could ever fight back when they had no way to protect themselves from the horrific blows. It would not surprise me if some of the victims did awaken at the moment of attack that they tried to shield themselves and would have broken arms, crushed hands or fingers as the tire iron was wielded.

In other mass murder bludgeoning cases usually the neighbors hear nothing and the position of the victims can be still in the sleeping position even though the perp went room to room murdering them one by one. That shows me that one mighty blow to the skull can render someone either unconscious or near death and dying. There is no time to react but a few moments or so imo because the bludgeoner usually strikes multiple blows to make sure the victim is dead.

So imo they used it because it was silent and deadly.

imo

I'm wondering then what kind of a fierce fight took place to save their own life If the perp (s) aimed for their heads first. Once you take a tire Iron like that and with great strength and force you would think the victims would have been knocked unconscious. Then perhaps the horrible sick violence continued to make sure they were all dead. The perp (s) must have thought Tabitha was dead too.
I'm thinking this may be why Sheriff Nichols said they fought back because their was so much blood everywhere and the damage the Tire Iron did to the Gee's. These murders were definitely done with a lot of passion. In addition, I don't recall where we received the information but it was said that Dillon had a fistful of "reddish" hair in his hand.

Also at the inquisition one would think the medical examiner would have had to tell the jury exactly where all the blows were, cuts, defensive wounds and bruises in order for them to determine it was a homicide.
Nichols only said they were able to keep a tight lid on their evidence at the inquisition. I have never attended an inquisition so I don't know how they work.
Wouldn't a medical examiner be able to tell if they were all killed by that one single weapon and wouldn't the medical examiner be able to tell approx. how many perp(s) were present at the time of the murder.

[GentleBreeze]

I'm wondering then what kind of a fierce fight took place to save their own life If the perp (s) aimed for their heads first. Once you take a tire Iron like that and with great strength and force you would think the victims would have been knocked unconscious. Then perhaps the horrible sick violence continued to make sure they were all dead. The perp (s) must have thought Tabitha was dead too.
I'm thinking this may be why Sheriff Nichols said they fought back because their was so much blood everywhere and the damage the Tire Iron did to the Gee's. These murders were definitely done with a lot of passion. In addition, I don't recall where we received the information but it was said that Dillon had a fistful of "reddish" hair in his hand.

Also at the inquisition one would think the medical examiner would have had to tell the jury exactly where all the blows were, cuts, defensive wounds and bruises in order for them to determine it was a homicide.
Nichols only said they were able to keep a tight lid on their evidence at the inquisition. I have never attended an inquisition so I don't know how they work.
Wouldn't a medical examiner be able to tell if they were all killed by that one single weapon and wouldn't the medical examiner be able to tell approx. how many perp(s) were present at the time of the murder.

Hi Silk.

I am not sure there was a fight per se but Nichols said there was a struggle. That could have been from the victims trying to find a place to back up and hide or shield themselves from the blows or running trying to escape only to be caught and drug back. Maybe the victims have severe defensive wounds showing they struggled to live but were not able to protect themselves from the blows.

I do agree with you. This case shows a lot of anger and passion and that is why I think it had nothing at all to do with drugs. This rage was much deeper imo.

The ME would be able to discern if the skull and scalp injuries showed two different weapon patterns or just one consistent with it being a tire iron.

I am not sure the ME could tell if there was more than one perp but they could ascertain if two weapons were used.

But forensic analysis could reveal that I would think. For instance if they found the blood of the victims on the weapon or another bloody object found during the investigation and the fingerprints of both perps were on them. I really think they have found both of their fingerprints inside the Gee home itself and very possibly they are bloody fingerprints belonging to both Jason and Chris.

I am sure when they found the laptop that came from the Gee home they immediately dusted it for prints. Wouldn't surprise me if both men's prints are on it. Imo, there is a very good reason why of all things, they took that laptop.

imo

[IM4Truth]

Yes clueless. I don't know if I read it in the pantagraph or if I heard first hand. A dark SUV was spotted outside the Gee's house and a guy with a baby came out and got into his car (after hollering was heard) on that same Sunday.
Jason has a dark SUV which was seen on a my space pic in the background and Jason and Jennifer have a small baby.

I don't think you read that in the Pantagraph. Evidently a poster on this board told you about it because she told me the same thing and even told me to look at the SUV in some Facebook photos. As far as I know the information about the arguement and the SUV are just rumors.

[Silk]

I don't think you read that in the Pantagraph. Evidently a poster on this board told you about it because she told me the same thing and even told me to look at the SUV in some Facebook photos. As far as I know the information about the arguement and the SUV are just rumors.

NO! No one we know told me about anything. I still maintain I read it somewhere. If it was not on the board or on a link then I'm willing to withdraw the post I laid out prior.

[Amy]

NO! No one we know told me about anything. I still maintain I read it somewhere. If it was not on the board or on a link then I'm willing to withdraw the post I laid out prior.

I don't particularly remember a post about an SUV @ the Gee's (and there were days I didn't get to read, and there were so many posts I didn't get to all of them) but I specifically remember posts from early on where the poster said that people had heard a loud argument from the Gee house, and that a man and little girl left. Now, that post did not mention what vehicle the man and girl left in, but did bring up about the argument. Nor did it identify the man and little girl. I do think there was speculation @ some point, if it could have been Jason and HIS little girl. Mr Gee and Tabitha, I would think, would also fit the description of a man and a little girl. And I would think there are any number of men in Beason who have little girls who could have been the man and little girl observed. Of course, this was information a poster got from someone local and had no identifying info about the man and little girl.

[GentleBreeze]

I don't think you read that in the Pantagraph. Evidently a poster on this board told you about it because she told me the same thing and even told me to look at the SUV in some Facebook photos. As far as I know the information about the argument and the SUV are just rumors.

I agree. A lot of things that have been said by a poster here I have never really seen any verification of it in the print media or the cable channels

I think it is just typical local talk and mostly rumors. We have about 8 murders a year in the county where I live and oh my goodness you wouldn't believe how the gossip goes around and when the trial finally happens most of it was just talk with no substance. lol

When is the next court date for either Jason or Chris? TIA

imo

[JoAnn]

I don't particularly remember a post about an SUV @ the Gee's (and there were days I didn't get to read, and there were so many posts I didn't get to all of them) but I specifically remember posts from early on where the poster said that people had heard a loud argument from the Gee house, and that a man and little girl left. Now, that post did not mention what vehicle the man and girl left in, but did bring up about the argument. Nor did it identify the man and little girl. I do think there was speculation @ some point, if it could have been Jason and HIS little girl. Mr Gee and Tabitha, I would think, would also fit the description of a man and a little girl. And I would think there are any number of men in Beason who have little girls who could have been the man and little girl observed. Of course, this was information a poster got from someone local and had no identifying info about the man and little girl.

Hi Amy...I had read something similar but it came from a local and it was right after the murders...but for me I dont think they specified if it were a toddler, baby, girl or boy..just a young child was what I read or was told to me...dont recall which. I didnt hear about the descrip of the vehicle till a much later date. But did hear there was an argument at the house on sunday afternoon with a subject and young child seen leaving after. As time went on (on the board) I saw that info change a bit and got gender specific and more age specific..so not to sure of anything being valid as far as rumors go....though some panned out to be fairly accurate.

With the tight lid kept on the investigation, it is hard to determine what is accurate and what is just rumor.

I am afraid it is going to be a long long wait till we find out details. So many things to wonder about.

[Silk]

Hi Amy...I had read something similar but it came from a local and it was right after the murders...but for me I dont think they specified if it were a toddler, baby, girl or boy..just a young child was what I read or was told to me...dont recall which. I didnt hear about the descrip of the vehicle till a much later date. But did hear there was an argument at the house on sunday afternoon with a subject and young child seen leaving after. As time went on (on the board) I saw that info change a bit and got gender specific and more age specific..so not to sure of anything being valid as far as rumors go....though some panned out to be fairly accurate.

With the tight lid kept on the investigation, it is hard to determine what is accurate and what is just rumor.

I am afraid it is going to be a long long wait till we find out details. So many things to wonder about.

I have to agree with you Joann. There are many stories out there and I bet that little town is buzzing away about Chris and Jason. I'm sure there are only a handful of people who actually know what took place or they know who did it based on the said rumors.

[JoAnn]

I have to agree with you Joann. There are many stories out there and I bet that little town is buzzing away about Chris and Jason. I'm sure there are only a handful of people who actually know what took place or they know who did it based on the said rumors.

well it sure was locked up tight....and a bit unusual to not have some info leak out from people in the "know"...there are many many people involved in a investigation right down to the person that types up or enters in the police reports to the computer, which is often done by civilians..so i have to say for this to have stayed sewn up so tightly that Nichols, the pros. office and the court system should be commended for keeping the info so guarded, as it should be...but as well all KNOW ..we want details...which we simply are not going to get till trial date.

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.sj-r.com/news/x1903561212/Wrestlers-dedicate-season-to-murder-victim

Wrestlers dedicate season to murder victim

LINCOLN — The Lincoln Junior High School wrestling team was missing one of its leaders as it kicked off its new season Thursday evening.

Dillen Constant, 14, had become a standout last year, nearly qualifying for state and receiving the Most Inspirational Player title from his coaches.

“He soaked up everything we taught him. He was a fast learner. I was looking to good things out of him this season,” coach Alex Dawson said.

But Dillen wouldn’t get the chance to fulfill those hopes. The boy, his mother, Ruth Gee, and three other family members were murdered inside their Beason home in September.

[JoAnn]

http://www.sj-r.com/news/x1903561212/Wrestlers-dedicate-season-to-murder-victim

Wrestlers dedicate season to murder victim

LINCOLN — The Lincoln Junior High School wrestling team was missing one of its leaders as it kicked off its new season Thursday evening.

Dillen Constant, 14, had become a standout last year, nearly qualifying for state and receiving the Most Inspirational Player title from his coaches.

“He soaked up everything we taught him. He was a fast learner. I was looking to good things out of him this season,” coach Alex Dawson said.

But Dillen wouldn’t get the chance to fulfill those hopes. The boy, his mother, Ruth Gee, and three other family members were murdered inside their Beason home in September.

oh that is so sad to read...especially when you recall the comment or post by a family member who had said that Dillan had fought the hardest of any of the victims......possibly his wrestling training may have given that ability.

So little we know about the children..this was sad but good to read that he had excelled and had a time in his life to 'shine" a bit before his light was extinguished.

[desmom]

Chris Harris, accused of killing Gee Family, appears in court
http://www.wandtv.com/global/story.asp?s=11718323

Prosecutors shared hundreds of state police documents, crime scene photos, and lab reports with the defense.

[GentleBreeze]

oh that is so sad to read...especially when you recall the comment or post by a family member who had said that Dillan had fought the hardest of any of the victims......possibly his wrestling training may have given that ability.

So little we know about the children..this was sad but good to read that he had excelled and had a time in his life to 'shine" a bit before his light was extinguished.

All of them seemed to be very well like children in their community.

Yes, so sad to see all of their lives snuffed out so wickedly.

imo

[TobyWong]

Chris Harris, accused of killing Gee Family, appears in court
http://www.wandtv.com/global/story.asp?s=11718323

Prosecutors shared hundreds of state police documents, crime scene photos, and lab reports with the defense.
Thanks for the link. What was the reason for the court apperance? Just to turn over evidence? TIA And why are we not privy to what exactly was turned over?

[darcie]

http://www.pantagraph.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_e1612daa-f01e-11de-a543-001cc4c03286.html

Home where slayings occured visited by defense team.

----

Keeping this family in my prayers----

[Amy]

Good to see a case where prosecution and defense are working together on getting what the defense is wanting. And a defense team that does not have their faces on every tv channel.

Prayers and Merry Christmas to Tabitha and the families.

[clueless]

http://www.pantagraph.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_e1612daa-f01e-11de-a543-001cc4c03286.html

Home where slayings occured visited by defense team.

----

Keeping this family in my prayers----


In attendance at Jason Harris’ hearing was Lincoln attorney Rick Hobler, the court-appointed guardian for Tabitha Gee. Hobler is not connected with either criminal case. He said he could not discuss his role with the Gee case because it involves a juvenile case that is confidential

Who's the juvenile I wonder?

[Amy]

In attendance at Jason Harris’ hearing was Lincoln attorney Rick Hobler, the court-appointed guardian for Tabitha Gee. Hobler is not connected with either criminal case. He said he could not discuss his role with the Gee case because it involves a juvenile case that is confidential

Who's the juvenile I wonder?

Tabitha? I guess anything concerning Tabitha would be considered confidential?

It is worded rather awkwardly. To say he is not connected to either criminal case, but in a round a bout way, he would be, just in the fact that he represents Tabitha, who is connected to the case(s) as a victim.

[clueless]

Tabitha? I guess anything concerning Tabitha would be considered confidential?

It is worded rather awkwardly. To say he is not connected to either criminal case, but in a round a bout way, he would be, just in the fact that he represents Tabitha, who is connected to the case(s) as a victim.

Would they consider Tabitha a juvenile? Or maybe this has to do with Christina? Her boyfriend, that we never knew who it was? Mystifying.

[JoAnn]

Tabitha? I guess anything concerning Tabitha would be considered confidential?

It is worded rather awkwardly. To say he is not connected to either criminal case, but in a round a bout way, he would be, just in the fact that he represents Tabitha, who is connected to the case(s) as a victim.

Well I assume any case involving a juvenile is considered confidential..and we should remember there were more than just Tabitha as a juvinile in that house..three were killed and Tabitha survived.

We don't know if there could have been another case or incident involving one of the four juveniles in the household..total speculation here but I suppose it is possible that any of those four juveniles could have had a pending or ongoing case going on that we dont know about, something prior to all of this..just a thought...and probably not a great theory but this case is so complicated that I wouldnt necessarily be surprised to hear that there could have been something else going on that we have no knowledge of, involving one of the juvenile victims..

[GentleBreeze]

Would they consider Tabitha a juvenile? Or maybe this has to do with Christina? Her boyfriend, that we never knew who it was? Mystifying.

BBM

I believe they would.

Here is the definition of "juvenile" from Dictionary.com

juvenile definition
ju·ve·nile (jo̵̅o̅′və nīl′, -nəl)

adjective

young or youthful
immature or childish
of, characteristic of, or suitable for children or young persons
Geol. emanating from the interior of the earth for the first time: said of gas, water, etc.
Etymology: L juvenilis < juvenis, young

noun

a young person; child or youth
an actor who plays youthful roles

imo

[clueless]

Well I assume any case involving a juvenile is considered confidential..and we should remember there were more than just Tabitha as a juvinile in that house..three were killed and Tabitha survived.

We don't know if there could have been another case or incident involving one of the four juveniles in the household..total speculation here but I suppose it is possible that any of those four juveniles could have had a pending or ongoing case going on that we dont know about, something prior to all of this..just a thought...and probably not a great theory but this case is so complicated that I wouldnt necessarily be surprised to hear that there could have been something else going on that we have no knowledge of, involving one of the juvenile victims..

I'm confused. Are you saying that he may be representing one of the other kids in a case that was going on prior to the incident? Hope you got that.:rolleyes:

[clueless]

JoAnn.
I wonder if has anything to do with the child support issues?

[GentleBreeze]

This is just my thoughts.

I think the family court Judge has assigned him as Tabitha's GAL in the custody/CPS case.

He may be the one that represents Tabitha and what is best for her and where she should live. I.e ..which foster parents and if she will eventually go to live with one of her relatives.

imo

[clueless]

This is just my thoughts.

I think the family court Judge has assigned him as Tabitha's GAL in the custody/CPS case.

He may be the one that represents Tabitha and what is best for her and where she should live. I.e ..which foster parents and if she will eventually go to live with one of her relatives.

imo

Thanks GB. I thought about her over XMas. I wonder if she spent time with relatives? Hope she a great one.

[Amy]

This is just my thoughts.

I think the family court Judge has assigned him as Tabitha's GAL in the custody/CPS case.

He may be the one that represents Tabitha and what is best for her and where she should live. I.e ..which foster parents and if she will eventually go to live with one of her relatives.

imo

That's what I was figuring, too. He represents Tabitha--there will be issues to be resolved about her life.

[JoAnn]

I'm confused. Are you saying that he may be representing one of the other kids in a case that was going on prior to the incident? Hope you got that.:rolleyes:

My whole post was just speculating and rambing thoughts ...that there were more than just Tabitha that was/is a juvenile in the house or connected to the Gee's or the Harris's..and we have no way to know if there could have been other, past or present cases involving any of the children that may have caused him to attend the court session. Most likely he was there because of Tabitha but we should also consider other possibilities...this case has taught me to never close my mind to other possibilities.

So..IMO His appearance doesnt have to indicate he is representing Tabitha but it could also (far fetched thought though) indicate he was there because he might be assigned to any of the juveniles ... and we should remember there are three other juveniles between the two Harris boys. Could there be a issue about one of the Harris boys children and whether they can have visitation with their children?

Just specualtion of course,..but can children be allowed in for visitation privleges in a jail or prison? Anyone know? I would think not..but I dont really know.

Was he at Jasons court apearance..? could it be connected to Jasons child and not be about Tabitha? Could Jason be requesting parental privlieges to see his child???

IMO this case has been very complex and since all we can do is guess, speculate and run theories by each other...I think we should always keep our minds open to new thoughts, even ones that may sound far fetched right now.

[clueless]

My whole post was just speculating and rambing thoughts ...that there were more than just Tabitha that was/is a juvenile in the house or connected to the Gee's or the Harris's..and we have no way to know if there could have been other, past or present cases involving any of the children that may have caused him to attend the court session. Most likely he was there because of Tabitha but we should also consider other possibilities...this case has taught me to never close my mind to other possibilities.

So..IMO His appearance doesnt have to indicate he is representing Tabitha but it could also (far fetched thought though) indicate he was there because he might be assigned to any of the juveniles ... and we should remember there are three other juveniles between the two Harris boys. Could there be a issue about one of the Harris boys children and whether they can have visitation with their children?

Just specualtion of course,..but can children be allowed in for visitation privleges in a jail or prison? Anyone know? I would think not..but I dont really know.

Was he at Jasons court apearance..? could it be connected to Jasons child and not be about Tabitha? Could Jason be requesting parental privlieges to see his child???

IMO this case has been very complex and since all we can do is guess, speculate and run theories by each other...I think we should always keep our minds open to new thoughts, even ones that may sound far fetched right now.

He is the attorney as her legal guardian. And yes I totally agree he could be handling any of the other juveniles also. I guess we'll all learn together on this issue. I wonder if Sara and family got to see the little girl. My memory just keeps getting shorter...quicker...LOL.

[JoAnn]

He is the attorney as her legal guardian. And yes I totally agree he could be handling any of the other juveniles also. I guess we'll all learn together on this issue. I wonder if Sara and family got to see the little girl. My memory just keeps getting shorter...quicker...LOL.

Oh my error here in my thoughts for I didnt realize he had actually been appointed as her guardian...I thought we were trying to figure out his role..guess I better put my READING GLASSES back on when I read the posts here......that was why I went off on speculating why he was there....one of my DUH moments...

[Amy]

I haven't read any laws relating to children visiting their parents in prison. But, in all the cases I have seen and read, they can. It would depend somewhat on who has custody of them--I suppose the person who has custody can go to court to NOT let the child go to see the parent.

One was a FL (I think) policeman or deputy who killed his wife. Her mother has custody of their child (child might be grown now, it was an older case) and when she visits her paternal grandparents, they do take her to prison to see her dad.

I tried to look up about children visiting parents in prison, and found statistics and this and that, but nothing about children not being allowed to see the parent. In fact, it was more about the problems related to the visit--time and money to travel to where the incarcerated parent is.

[smittey]

Hi Everyone!

Been reading here since this whole terrible case started, never joined in because you all pretty much voiced my thoughts and had alot better ideas then I could come up with:blink:.
But I just had to jump in here as if I recall, there is another child we must not forget about and that is the daughter that is a facility. I think she had brain damage from childhood (please correct me if I am wrong).

I had this poor family in my thoughts all through the Holidays and hope they enjoyed them the best they could.

Darla

All my posts are my thoughts and opinions only.

[GentleBreeze]

He is the attorney as her legal guardian. And yes I totally agree he could be handling any of the other juveniles also. I guess we'll all learn together on this issue. I wonder if Sara and family got to see the little girl. My memory just keeps getting shorter...quicker...LOL.

I really believe this is to do with Tabitha solely and maybe her older sister who is in a facility. With him being her/their court appointed guardian all facets that involves her/their life would be of interest to him, imo. He said he is not there in a capacity role regarding the criminal cases. He may have gone to see what evidence the state turned over to the defense and what will be known once it goes to trial when it comes to Tabitha. He may have wanted advance notice of that so that he can try his best to insure that she is protected from it.

The deceased children would not have guardians to represent them and their mother (Ruth) is deceased as well so child support issues she may have had against Gerald Miller, whether it was in arrears then, will most likely never be collected now.

I dont think a guardian would be needed for either Jason or Chris's children since Nicole has custody of their children and didnt the wife of Jason's make bail?

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Hi Everyone!

Been reading here since this whole terrible case started, never joined in because you all pretty much voiced my thoughts and had alot better ideas then I could come up with:blink:.
But I just had to jump in here as if I recall, there is another child we must not forget about and that is the daughter that is a facility. I think she had brain damage from childhood (please correct me if I am wrong).

I had this poor family in my thoughts all through the Holidays and hope they enjoyed them the best they could.

Darla

All my posts are my thoughts and opinions only.


Welcome Smittey!

Yes you are right, we cannot forget the many victims in this case. I know that little girl doesn't know what to think about mommy and daddy never coming back to see her anymore.:sad:

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I haven't read any laws relating to children visiting their parents in prison. But, in all the cases I have seen and read, they can. It would depend somewhat on who has custody of them--I suppose the person who has custody can go to court to NOT let the child go to see the parent.

One was a FL (I think) policeman or deputy who killed his wife. Her mother has custody of their child (child might be grown now, it was an older case) and when she visits her paternal grandparents, they do take her to prison to see her dad.

I tried to look up about children visiting parents in prison, and found statistics and this and that, but nothing about children not being allowed to see the parent. In fact, it was more about the problems related to the visit--time and money to travel to where the incarcerated parent is.

I think all jails allow visits that include children. I see countless cases on tv and they show where the families bring the small children to see whomever is in there. Now if it was a hard core maximum security prison they may have to see them behind plexi-glass or something like that but I wouldnt think so if it is just a jail. Usually the rules arent as strict in a jail anyway. A lot of the time it is at a certain time every week or weekend. They just have to be on the defendant's list imo.

imo

[clueless]

Thanks GB for your insights. Makes total sense to me now. I think Jason's parents have her, or atleast that was the last I have read. I was wondering if the mother may have come up to visit during the holidays or maybe the grandparents took her down to Sarasota. So many little ones affected by this.

[JoAnn]

Please correct me anyone.. I may have some of this wrong and it is just thoughts....but IMO:

This is just a bit of interest and not a major thing....but I think jails and prisons are different...a jail is more of a short term holding facility or for short term imprisonments of less than a year, often you are in a local or county jail until you go to trial or bond out..sometimes you are only in jail for hours...not so in a prison.

A prison is for the long haul and where you would most likely go after the trial and sentencing unless you were released to a halfway house or a work release program.

Sometimes prisons and jails have different rules about things like visitation, how often visits are allowed, who can and can't visit. Even something as simple as making outgoing phone calls, can be different in a jail verses a prison.

Sometimes it is harder to visit a incarcerated person at a local jail than it is in a prison. Jails are set up more for short term stay and not necessarily set up to accommodate visitors..well at least not in the same way a prison is set up.

The Harris boys must be lodged in jails then right now?....not a prison..and if and when they get sentenced...I believe they do not have to be sentenced to a local area prison..they can be sent a considerable distance away, which of course is a major hardship on the families that try to visit inmates. If the prisons in the area are overcrowded..inmates can also be farmed out to other prisons located much further away.

I only bring this up because I see the terms jails and prisons are interchanged a lot ..when in reality there is a lot of difference between the two.

I believe visitation with a minor child may be allowed in a prison...but not necessarily in a jail. The Harris boys of course are not short term stays..their trail is months and months away so it is possible that even though they are charged with horrendous crimes..they are both still fathers and may have requested to see their children..TOTAL GUESS on my part on that issue, but I also suppose that would be news that would be released.

The town I am from, ran a local jail for very short term stays.. a dozen or so cells, most people bonded out over night..a lot of drunk driving and warrant arrests. Big crimes were sent to the county jail which was much much larger and set up for longer stays.

In the local jail since it was such a temperary holding place, there was no visitation allowed because most people were released or bonded out in less than 24 hours...three days was a long stay in our dept. Our town no longer runs its own lockup and all arrests are now taken to the county jail, but I suppose there are still small departments that run their own short term jails...kind of the Andy of Mayberry thing..lol.

[GentleBreeze]

Joann, I really don't know about jails on a personal basis thank goodness or prisons for that matter:laugh: but our local jail does have visiting times for families including young children where they can visit the inmates who are housed there. Our local newspaper has had stories about it before. Some can be there up to two years or more if their trial hasn't commenced yet or they have no bail or cant make bail.

Take NC for instance and the Cesar Laurean murder case. He has been in the Onslow County jail for a year and his trial hasn't even happened yet. The media has mentioned that his wife and little girl have gone to the jail to visit him.

Actually jail life is much better than prison which is much more structured environment with stricter rules. Many times a defendant would rather remain in jail for as long as they can rather than having a trial and if convicted sent on to a maximum security prison.

No doubt if Jason and Chris are convicted they will be housed in a maximum security prison. Probably the largest one in the state of IL. Visits then will be much stricter and I would think if they are both on death row that they will not be able to actually be where they can touch their family members but will converse with them behind a wall of glass and with the use of a telephone.

imo

[clueless]

Joann, I really don't know about jails on a personal basis thank goodness or prisons for that matter:laugh: but our local jail does have visiting times for families including young children where they can visit the inmates who are housed there. Our local newspaper has had stories about it before. Some can be there up to two years or more if their trial hasn't commenced yet or they have no bail or cant make bail.

Take NC for instance and the Cesar Laurean murder case. He has been in the Onslow County jail for a year and his trial hasn't even happened yet. The media has mentioned that his wife and little girl have gone to the jail to visit him.

Actually jail life is much better than prison which is much more structured environment with stricter rules. Many times a defendant would rather remain in jail for as long as they can rather than having a trial and if convicted sent on to a maximum security prison.

No doubt if Jason and Chris are convicted they will be housed in a maximum security prison. Probably the largest one in the state of IL. Visits then will be much stricter and I would think if they are both on death row that they will not be able to actually be where they can touch their family members but will converse with them behind a wall of glass and with the use of a telephone.

imo

There's a federal prison/max security in Marion, downstate. Home of the former John Gotti. I read in the Pantagraph of Bloomington that they are building a new facility or maybe revamping an existing one in nothern Ill. to hold some of the terrorists in Guantanamo (sp?)

[Amy]

Our city/county jail complex allows visitation, I can't remember the hours, but they were pretty much all evening, different on the weekend. There isn't a visitation list, just go if you want to visit the inmate, who either sees ya or declines. It is just phone visitation, @ least for short-term stays. Don't know how the longer term visitation goes. I think I saw some children there.

For my ex bil, in the prison system, you do have to be on a list, and the visitation schedule is more limited. The nearest prison from where we live is over 2 hours away, the others a bit further.

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.wjbc.com/TabId/7865/default.aspx?AID=12068

2009 Top Stories: Beason slayings

[Silk]

http://www.wjbc.com/TabId/7865/default.aspx?AID=12068

2009 Top Stories: Beason slayings

For choosing this as being one of the top stories in 2009 I have a difficult time believing it. We have absolutely no information regarding this murder case except for a few crumbs they have drop off for us to nibble on.
We know someone(s) went in and wiped out a family in Beason, Illinois and they were brutally murdered by a single tire Iron according to the information we have. We know that they have arrested two brothers for doing this. There is no signs for the arrest by the good sheriff besides his word that he is confident they have the right killers. The good Sheriff even says they have a positive motive for the killings. What I don't understand is the charges for attempted sexual assault on the 16 year old girl. If there has ever been a case that is locked up tighter than a drum it has to be this one. Why they are holding this tight to their vest to the point of ridiculous is beyond this poster.
It almost makes me think they have a lot of things to hide.
Of course, that's just my opinion.
God bless the family and the families involved in this murder.
The only thing I can think of is perhaps one brother turned on the other and I don't think that would happen. Just sayin.:sneaky:

[GentleBreeze]

For choosing this as being one of the top stories in 2009 I have a difficult time believing it. We have absolutely no information regarding this murder case except for a few crumbs they have drop off for us to nibble on.
We know someone(s) went in and wiped out a family in Beason, Illinois and they were brutally murdered by a single tire Iron according to the information we have. We know that they have arrested two brothers for doing this. There is no signs for the arrest by the good sheriff besides his word that he is confident they have the right killers. The good Sheriff even says they have a positive motive for the killings. What I don't understand is the charges for attempted sexual assault on the 16 year old girl. If there has ever been a case that is locked up tighter than a drum it has to be this one. Why they are holding this tight to their vest to the point of ridiculous is beyond this poster.
It almost makes me think they have a lot of things to hide.
Of course, that's just my opinion.
God bless the family and the families involved in this murder.
The only thing I can think of is perhaps one brother turned on the other and I don't think that would happen. Just sayin.:sneaky:

Hi Silk!:smile:

I do believe it was one of the top stories in Illinois when it occurred.

I don't find this case any different from the many others that have happened. There will always be a flurry of media coverage and print articles for weeks but then the case goes quiet just like this one.

Unless the crime happens in Florida where they have the Sunshine Law not much is really revealed about any of the evidence.

I think more and more LE and DAs are keeping their evidence close to their vests, especially in death penalty cases and ones as horrific as this one. Even the Harris brothers attorneys does not want any information released for public consumption. That shows me the evidence against both of them is very detrimental to them both.

The DA is very mindful that this is a death penalty case and does not want anything divulged so that the Harris attorneys can file a motion saying that their clients have been unduly prejudiced and cant get a fair trial.

So I would be shocked if they did just dump information out there. That is very risky and really serves no purpose at this time. If known it could taint the potential jury pool and really the evidence should come from the witness stand in a trial rather than from the media before the trial.

imo

[Details]

Stories where we know the killers, the evidence is clean and simple, the motive is known - that won't be a top story. A brutal murder of an entire family, mysterious motives, evidence that is not entirely known and not so simple - yeah, that makes a top story.

It's like a mystery book - a mystery that starts with a husband drawing a gun in a public place, saying, "I've got you now", and killing his wife, will be a VERY short and unread book.

[happygert]

Hi Silk!:smile:

I do believe it was one of the top stories in Illinois when it occurred.

I don't find this case any different from the many others that have happened. There will always be a flurry of media coverage and print articles for weeks but then the case goes quiet just like this one.

Unless the crime happens in Florida where they have the Sunshine Law not much is really revealed about any of the evidence.

I think more and more LE and DAs are keeping their evidence close to their vests, especially in death penalty cases and ones as horrific as this one. Even the Harris brothers attorneys does not want any information released for public consumption. That shows me the evidence against both of them is very detrimental to them both.

The DA is very mindful that this is a death penalty case and does not want anything divulged so that the Harris attorneys can file a motion saying that their clients have been unduly prejudiced and cant get a fair trial.

So I would be shocked if they did just dump information out there. That is very risky and really serves no purpose at this time. If known it could taint the potential jury pool and really the evidence should come from the witness stand in a trial rather than from the media before the trial.

imo

You dont think they info they released about attempted sexual assault on a 16 year old is not to taint a jury pool? I beg to differ with you on that. That is exactly what that info was to do. Do I think the reason the Defense attorneys do not want any info from search warrants released is because what in them yes i do. IMO it was more crap just like the attempted sexual assault.. LMAO these backwoods sheriffs office know just exactly how to get there man even if its not the right one.

NO WAY did 2 people kill 5 people with one tire iron. This whole investigation stinks to high heaven.
IMO this case is NOT about a rape and a laptop computer.

[GentleBreeze]

You don't think they info they released about attempted sexual assault on a 16 year old is not to taint a jury pool? I beg to differ with you on that. That is exactly what that info was to do. Do I think the reason the Defense attorneys do not want any info from search warrants released is because what in them yes i do. IMO it was more crap just like the attempted sexual assault.. LMAO these backwoods sheriffs office know just exactly how to get there man even if its not the right one.

NO WAY did 2 people kill 5 people with one tire iron. This whole investigation stinks to high heaven.
IMO this case is NOT about a rape and a laptop computer.

I am not sure what you mean gert. The charges against any defendants are always released to the public. The Sheriff is not the ones that release any documents. That call is made by the DA and the presiding Judge.:confused: The indictments being known has nothing to do with keeping the evidence close to the vest.

Do you mean you think if someone is charged with rape or attempted sexual assault that should somehow be omitted? You need to go and look at other cases here and each one of them has information on what the defendant(s) have been charged with. Why should this case be any different?

Well I will never say that two people couldn't have done this. We have seen horrible mass killings committed by one person so it is very logical that two people certainly could achieve the same results.

I think it is about a lot of things. Usually family related killings have many facets to it but I do think the attempted rape and laptop is a very big part of it.

The attempted rape charge is just one of the defendants worries. I believe the murders of the Gee family and the attempted murder of Tabitha will be paramount.

imo

[happygert]

I am not sure what you mean gert. The charges against any defendants are always released to the public. The Sheriff is not the ones that release any documents. That call is made by the DA and the presiding Judge.:confused: The indictments being known has nothing to do with keeping the evidence close to the vest.

Do you mean you think if someone is charged with rape or attempted sexual assault that should somehow be omitted? You need to go and look at other cases here and each one of them has information on what the defendant(s) have been charged with. Why should this case be any different?

Well I will never say that two people couldn't have done this. We have seen horrible mass killings committed by one person so it is very logical that two people certainly could achieve the same results.

I think it is about a lot of things. Usually family related killings have many facets to it but I do think the attempted rape and laptop is a very big part of it.

The attempted rape charge is just one of the defendants worries. I believe the murders of the Gee family and the attempted murder of Tabitha will be paramount.

imo

You dont know what I mean? I meant just what I said. NO way was these murders committed because of an attempted sexual assault or a laptop computer. moo...

[Leanne Weich]

You dont know what I mean? I meant just what I said. NO way was these murders committed because of an attempted sexual assault or a laptop computer. moo...

Fortunately, a motive is not needed for a conviction. The attempted sexual assault was probably another crime and not the motive for the murder. If these 2 louts managed to kill 5 people, I wonder what stopped whichever one attempted the s.a. The laptop was probably stolen because it contained information they did not want to be known, imo.

[GentleBreeze]

You don't know what I mean? I meant just what I said. NO way was these murders committed because of an attempted sexual assault or a laptop computer. moo...

Well I do know this unless a person was actually there at the crime scene when these horrible crimes were taking place they cant say that the attempted sexual assault and the stealing of the laptop didn't have anything to do with it.

Motive doesn't even have to be proved but I do think the evidence of the attempted sexual assault and the stealing of the laptop will be entered at trial. It is up to the jury what weight they think it holds.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Fortunately, a motive is not needed for a conviction. The attempted sexual assault was probably another crime and not the motive for the murder. If these 2 louts managed to kill 5 people, I wonder what stopped whichever one attempted the s.a. The laptop was probably stolen because it contained information they did not want to be known, imo.

Exactly, both of these defendants were charged with multiple felonies.

imo

[JoAnn]

You dont think they info they released about attempted sexual assault on a 16 year old is not to taint a jury pool? I beg to differ with you on that. That is exactly what that info was to do. Do I think the reason the Defense attorneys do not want any info from search warrants released is because what in them yes i do. IMO it was more crap just like the attempted sexual assault.. LMAO these backwoods sheriffs office know just exactly how to get there man even if its not the right one.

NO WAY did 2 people kill 5 people with one tire iron. This whole investigation stinks to high heaven.
IMO this case is NOT about a rape and a laptop computer.

IMO: Gert.. I am not positive on this but I don't believe it was ever said by LE that the tire iron was the only weapon. But that it is the only weapon that has been mentioned to US, but there certainly could be more weapons that may not have been found or that they cannot identify. IMO I think the tire iron is mentioned because they (LE) actually had it in their possession.

And I agree with you somewhat, I don't think the the murders were about a rape (attempted sexual attack) and a laptop computer, but I do think the laptop played an important part in the motive of the murders, and that the attempted (not rape) sexual attempt on Justina was something that was part of it..

..and I personally think it may not have been the first time an attempt or a sexual encounter had happened between one of the Harris boys and Justina ..and again in my own opinion, I have thoughts that the computer could contain photos or emails between one or both of them and Justina or links to sites that had info on it that would be hard for the Harris boys to explain away if it was discovered on the Gee's puter, whether it be something as simple as some web cam shots or something more complex, that puter was important to them.

We don't know that the killers if it were to be the Harris boys..were not there earlier in the day, we don't know what set off this rampage, in the past you( Gert) have suggested that dope could be involved..and maybe it is...and if that were to turn out to be an actuality, then maybe one or both of the Harris boys were involved in the (only speculation ) dope in some way..all we can do is speculate.

I don't think nor have I ever thought the actual reason was to go there to have sex with Justina and swipe a puter. But both of those were a part of a bigger picture between Jason and/or Chris and I think it had to do with the life style of the Gee household...and the lifestyle IMO is what has led indirectly or directly to this horrible incident. I am NOT casting stone at the Gees, I am horrified of what happened to them and I hope whoever did this never walks the public streets again EVER.

But..aww Gert dont start in about a tainted jury that hasn't even been selected yet for a trial that hasnt occurred yet...it is certainly ok to support your unwavering feelings and your strong belief in the Harris boy(s) innocence...but please don't even go in that area of a tainted jury of a trial that hasnt even come close to happening yet.

[AmndaRcknwth]

I agree with you JoAnn and GB.

btw, if anyone wants to refresh their memory, or for those new to this case, the photos are archived and updated as often as news comes out.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Gee%20-%20Constant%20Murders/

[IM4Truth]

Just popped in to see if there is anything new and it looks like it is still just the same old arguments. Everyone has their opinion and some may be swayed by other's, some will not. So why keep repeating the same thing over and over again? I'm just chillin' and waitin' for the trial! But some will NEVER believe those two young men did this even if they come right out and plead GUILTY!

[Details]

Fortunately, a motive is not needed for a conviction. The attempted sexual assault was probably another crime and not the motive for the murder. If these 2 louts managed to kill 5 people, I wonder what stopped whichever one attempted the s.a. The laptop was probably stolen because it contained information they did not want to be known, imo.One swing of a tire iron, and whoever is hit is pretty much out of it - 2 people with a weapon and the element of surprise versus 5 people (not all adults) who are home and expecting nothing - I don't have any problem seeing that.

But - when you are attempting a SA - it probably wouldn't take much to spook them into fleeing - something that sounds like a car pulling in, any type of concern that you'll be found out.

[sinagua]

http://www.sj-r.com/news/x532582219/Search-warrant-fight-continues-in-Beason-murder-case

[Silk]

http://www.sj-r.com/news/x532582219/Search-warrant-fight-continues-in-Beason-murder-case

Hmmmm. A search warrant at the post office. :confused: That is weird. (as LKL would say)

[clueless]

Maybe more federal charges, huh?

[Silk]

Maybe more federal charges, huh?

Crossing illegal somethings across state line (thru the mail system)?? That Florida mom Sarah??
It's SARAH right?? The mother of Jennifer? I'm tired and can't get this brain moving.

[GentleBreeze]

Hmmmm. A search warrant at the post office. :confused: That is weird. (as LKL would say)

Hmmm I am wondering if one of the main defendants had mailboxes there were they retrieved their mail. The federal postal inspector would have to sign off on the search warrants for the mailbox to be searched on federal property and probable cause would have had to have been met.

Maybe they had private mailboxes at the PO that no one knew about and the other mail was sent to their regular address where they lived.

I remember Mary Winkler set up a private mailbox at the PO so her husband wouldnt know about her bank dealings.

So if one of these guys set up a private mailbox at the post office rather than getting certain pieces of mail delivered at home where they resided then there is a very good reason for doing that imo.

It will be interesting to see how this ties in with the overall case.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.lincolncourier.com/news/x1672013634/Consumptive-DNA-hearing-continued

Lincoln, Ill. -
Both state prosecutors and defense teams for brothers Christopher and Jason Harris, the two brothers accused of murdering five members of the Gee family in Beason, asked for a second extension Friday for a hearing on consumptive DNA evidence.

“The state has delivered additional items that will allow (the defense) to consult with their experts for progress to be made,” said Assistant Illinois Attorney General Michael Atterberry. “Bottom line – both parties are working diligently.”

[Silk]

Hmmm I am wondering if one of the main defendants had mailboxes there were they retrieved their mail. The federal postal inspector would have to sign off on the search warrants for the mailbox to be searched on federal property and probable cause would have had to have been met.

Maybe they had private mailboxes at the PO that no one knew about and the other mail was sent to their regular address where they lived.

I remember Mary Winkler set up a private mailbox at the PO so her husband wouldnt know about her bank dealings.

So if one of these guys set up a private mailbox at the post office rather than getting certain pieces of mail delivered at home where they resided then there is a very good reason for doing that imo.

It will be interesting to see how this ties in with the overall case.

imo

Hi Gentle...
What we do know is once we get the least bit of information it starts to sink in a little. At least we can come forward with different scenarios, opinions and Idea's. The "postal" search warrant is quite the cherry or one of them.. Can't go too wrong on that one.:glare:

[Silk]

http://www.lincolncourier.com/news/x1672013634/Consumptive-DNA-hearing-continued

Lincoln, Ill. -
Both state prosecutors and defense teams for brothers Christopher and Jason Harris, the two brothers accused of murdering five members of the Gee family in Beason, asked for a second extension Friday for a hearing on consumptive DNA evidence.

“The state has delivered additional items that will allow (the defense) to consult with their experts for progress to be made,” said Assistant Illinois Attorney General Michael Atterberry. “Bottom line – both parties are working diligently.”

Oh boy! Looks like they have something pretty solid and there would not be a reason to say, it's a set up or one or the other or both are taking the heat for safety reasons for their life and family as we have given that possibility. Dunno, I'm really torn on all this when we have zero from the State of Illinois. Gotta trust someone getting all this done. They keep dotting their i's and crossing their T's...

As some have said, tick that tock!! :mellow:

The prosecutors seem to be ALL over this.:scared:

[clueless]

Crossing illegal somethings across state line (thru the mail system)?? That Florida mom Sarah??
It's SARAH right?? The mother of Jennifer? I'm tired and can't get this brain moving.

LOL I know how you feel. I couldn't think of Sara's name or Jennifer's baby's name still.

The only things I can think of re: PO, would be drugs, porn, or some type of fraud or scam that's illegal. Of course, it could be something legal and still "hidden" from someone's eyes. ie: correspondence w/someone or finances.

[clueless]

http://www.lincolncourier.com/news/x1672013634/Consumptive-DNA-hearing-continued

Lincoln, Ill. -
Both state prosecutors and defense teams for brothers Christopher and Jason Harris, the two brothers accused of murdering five members of the Gee family in Beason, asked for a second extension Friday for a hearing on consumptive DNA evidence.

“The state has delivered additional items that will allow (the defense) to consult with their experts for progress to be made,” said Assistant Illinois Attorney General Michael Atterberry. “Bottom line – both parties are working diligently.”

Thanks for the link GB, so the next hearing will be Feb. 11, the original date for the pre-trial.

Looks like most of the consumptive evidence is against Chris.

[clueless]

Crossing illegal somethings across state line (thru the mail system)?? That Florida mom Sarah??
It's SARAH right?? The mother of Jennifer? I'm tired and can't get this brain moving.

I still think it's quite a coincidence that
Sara was there when this all went down.

[GentleBreeze]

Judge to rule on releasing Beason murder documents

1/18/2010 9:50:00 AM
By: Metro News Service

(Lincoln, IL) -- A Logan County judge is expected to rule on whether to overturn a motion that is keeping the public from viewing records related to the investigation of the murder of a Central Illinois family. According to the Lincoln Courier, an attorney representing three Illinois newspapers lobbied in court to release search warrants, affidavits and the names of expects hired to to investigate the deaths of five members of the Gee family, who were brutally murdered in their Beason home in September.

Both prosecutors and defense attorneys for Christopher Harris, the man accused in the killings, argued in court that releasing the documents could potentially prevent the defendant from receiving a fair trial. No time table has been given for Judge Thomas Harris to rule on the matter. Harris was quoted by the paper as calling the situation a "catch- 22."

http://wjbc.com/TabId/7865/default.aspx?AID=12643

[jadensmokes]

Hmmm I am wondering if one of the main defendants had mailboxes there were they retrieved their mail. The federal postal inspector would have to sign off on the search warrants for the mailbox to be searched on federal property and probable cause would have had to have been met.

Maybe they had private mailboxes at the PO that no one knew about and the other mail was sent to their regular address where they lived.

I remember Mary Winkler set up a private mailbox at the PO so her husband wouldnt know about her bank dealings.

So if one of these guys set up a private mailbox at the post office rather than getting certain pieces of mail delivered at home where they resided then there is a very good reason for doing that imo.

It will be interesting to see how this ties in with the overall case.

imo

Just gonna throw this out there...child porn, perhaps?
MOO

[GentleBreeze]

Just gonna throw this out there...child porn, perhaps?
MOO

Now that is a chilling thought jaden or maybe corresponding with someone they shouldn't have been.

I think there will be many surprises in this case when it comes to trial.

imo

[AmndaRcknwth]

I'd have to guess "no" to child porn, because the other arrests would be immediate and they wouldn't be hushed, would they?

I have wondered what could have been on the laptop. It has to be something really important to Jason and/or Chris. I don't think they cared much about stealing a laptop so much as stealing what it contained.

Unless "child porn" would be Justina. The Gee's had a webcam.

I also have a lot of dark thoughts about why Jason and/or Chris would so brutally kill the whole family... and those I won't get into. But it would enrage me as the father of a young daughter, and both Jason and Chris had young daughters.

Too many scenarios with no info about it.

[GentleBreeze]

I'd have to guess "no" to child porn, because the other arrests would be immediate and they wouldn't be hushed, would they?

I have wondered what could have been on the laptop. It has to be something really important to Jason and/or Chris. I don't think they cared much about stealing a laptop so much as stealing what it contained.

Unless "child porn" would be Justina. The Gee's had a webcam.

I also have a lot of dark thoughts about why Jason and/or Chris would so brutally kill the whole family... and those I won't get into. But it would enrage me as the father of a young daughter, and both Jason and Chris had young daughters.

Too many scenarios with no info about it.

Now you have me puzzled Amanda. What would enrage you? Whatever it is... are you saying it would be something rational why they wiped out the entire Gee family including 3 children and attempting to murder a small little girl?:confused:

Imo this case is about the demons that were inside Chris and Jason and has nothing to do with their own daughters. Frankly if they could do this knowing they had children at home shows how little they even thought about their children or families, imo.

I don't think the PO search warrant is about child porn either but I do believe the attempted sexual assault of Justina and the stolen laptop will be prominent evidence in the trial and will be evidence against both brothers.

imo

[clueless]

This was part of my theory when the info re: the laptop came out. I think what Amnda is saying is if someone hurt their child that might make them go bonkos or want to. I don't think Amnda is condoning their actions. Child porn may be involved because of the "Christina factor" (the ASA). So I'm not ruling that out. We have not heard of motive--other than the robbery and ASA. LE is keeping this pretty quite with the sealed warrants. Miller seemed quite appalled after the meeting with the immediate family w/procecutors that day if you recall.

We don't know who's PO box, if any, was the reason for the search. Could be a package that was addressed to someone for pick up.

I think your right, suprises to come at the trial may be an understatement.

[GentleBreeze]

This was part of my theory when the info re: the laptop came out. I think what Amnda is saying is if someone hurt their child that might make them go bonkos or want to. I don't think Amnda is condoning their actions. Child porn may be involved because of the "Christina factor" (the ASA). So I'm not ruling that out. We have not heard of motive--other than the robbery and ASA. LE is keeping this pretty quite with the sealed warrants. Miller seemed quite appalled after the meeting with the immediate family w/prosecutors that day if you recall.

We don't know who's PO box, if any, was the reason for the search. Could be a package that was addressed to someone for pick up.

I think your right, suprises to come at the trial may be an understatement.

Morning.

It would seem to be if child porn was involved they would have been charged with those crimes also don't you think?

If evidence was on the laptop that supported any negativity against the Gees and not the brothers then why remove it from the murder scene after they had killed them? Why not leave it there for the police to find? When murderers take items away from a crime scene it is to protect themselves imo.

If this was done in retaliation then why pick a 16 year old and attempt to sexually assault them and not a younger child closer to their children's ages?

While I know that there has been no information disclosed on motive yet I just do not see these horrible crimes occurring because of these two defendants' children. Unless Chris was enraged that the Gee parents didn't approve of him popping in and out of Nicole and the kids life when he wanted to and made their opinions well known to him and Nicole. I still think it will become known since Nicole wasn't working at that time that the Gee parents had supported her emotionally and financially throughout a lot of the time she was with Chris.

It just seems to me with both defense attorneys wanting to keep a tight lid on what LE/DA has against these two brothers that the evidence is overwhelming and horrific. They have said if this evidence is known it will hurt their clients and prevent them from getting a fair trial. If there was anything that could possibly explain their deeds then I think they would want that out in the public hoping to sway public opinion and the potential jury pool.

And even IF true it does not make rational sense that they would murder defenseless young children and try to murder a little four year old too, imo.

But this is just my opinion.

[Silk]

Morning.

It would seem to be if child porn was involved they would have been charged with those crimes also don't you think?

If evidence was on the laptop that supported any negativity against the Gees and not the brothers then why remove it from the murder scene after they had killed them? Why not leave it there for the police to find? When murderers take items away from a crime scene it is to protect themselves imo.

If this was done in retaliation then why pick a 16 year old and attempt to sexually assault them and not a younger child closer to their children's ages?

While I know that there has been no information disclosed on motive yet I just do not see these horrible crimes occurring because of these two defendants' children. Unless Chris was enraged that the Gee parents didn't approve of him popping in and out of Nicole and the kids life when he wanted to and made their opinions well known to him and Nicole. I still think it will become known since Nicole wasn't working at that time that the Gee parents had supported her emotionally and financially throughout a lot of the time she was with Chris.

It just seems to me with both defense attorneys wanting to keep a tight lid on what LE/DA has against these two brothers that the evidence is overwhelming and horrific. They have said if this evidence is known it will hurt their clients and prevent them from getting a fair trial. If there was anything that could possibly explain their deeds then I think they would want that out in the public hoping to sway public opinion and the potential jury pool.

And even IF true it does not make rational sense that they would murder defenseless young children and try to murder a little four year old too, imo.

But this is just my opinion.

I don't think this murder had anything to do with "child porn" as much as I think something may have been going on with the 16 year old and maybe one of the Harris boys. Being 16 she was still a child and a lot of legal ramifications could have resulted in it if that's what one issue was.
I also think drugs were involved too.
This is just off the cuff but IF Chris Harris was really wanting to get back with Nichol and they had a new baby coming and he was involved with the 16 year old via computer or otherwise, well....there you go.

I still can not understand why they wiped out the entire family unless they were under the influence and felt that they would get caught if they had any witnesses. Drugs and alcohol does make people very crazy...

[Lucy]

This was part of my theory when the info re: the laptop came out. I think what Amnda is saying is if someone hurt their child that might make them go bonkos or want to. I don't think Amnda is condoning their actions. Child porn may be involved because of the "Christina factor" (the ASA). So I'm not ruling that out. We have not heard of motive--other than the robbery and ASA. LE is keeping this pretty quite with the sealed warrants. Miller seemed quite appalled after the meeting with the immediate family w/procecutors that day if you recall.

We don't know who's PO box, if any, was the reason for the search. Could be a package that was addressed to someone for pick up.

I think your right, suprises to come at the trial may be an understatement.


Oh no doubt there will be many surprises in this trial.
Wasn't that they day after he was arrested for driving under influence of drugs, running a stop sign , no insurance ticket. and yes the other 2 that was swept under the rug. possession of a controlled substance and drug paraphernalia.

[happygert]

I don't think this murder had anything to do with "child porn" as much as I think something may have been going on with the 16 year old and maybe one of the Harris boys. Being 16 she was still a child and a lot of legal ramifications could have resulted in it if that's what one issue was.
I also think drugs were involved too.
This is just off the cuff but IF Chris Harris was really wanting to get back with Nichol and they had a new baby coming and he was involved with the 16 year old via computer or otherwise, well....there you go.

I still can not understand why they wiped out the entire family unless they were under the influence and felt that they would get caught if they had any witnesses. Drugs and alcohol does make people very crazy...

I don't think these murders have anything to do with child porn either. Nor a ASA. Nor do I believe they murdered 5 people for a lap top computer.
I believe it was all over drugs. If anyone thinks this does not happen to whole families over drug's they sure dont read the papers much. Or Watch TV.

I agree with you drugs alcohol and money makes them crazy.

There was a reason rick did not do jail time with all the pot he was busted with. Just like gerald miller got 3 years for less pot around the same time. why the difference in sentencing? gerald had between 30 grams but less then 500. rick had over 500 grams and also was charged with trafficking and got probation.

[happygert]

Now you have me puzzled Amanda. What would enrage you? Whatever it is... are you saying it would be something rational why they wiped out the entire Gee family including 3 children and attempting to murder a small little girl?:confused:

Imo this case is about the demons that were inside Chris and Jason and has nothing to do with their own daughters. Frankly if they could do this knowing they had children at home shows how little they even thought about their children or families, imo.

I don't think the PO search warrant is about child porn either but I do believe the attempted sexual assault of Justina and the stolen laptop will be prominent evidence in the trial and will be evidence against both brothers.

imo

IMO it's going to be over drugs not a lap top or a attempted sexual assault. IMO there will be many tesifiying in this case.. and I really dont think it's going to be all good . Just have to wait and see..

[happygert]

Oh no doubt there will be many surprises in this trial.
Wasn't that they day after he was arrested for driving under influence of drugs, running a stop sign , no insurance ticket. and yes the other 2 that was swept under the rug. possession of a controlled substance and drug paraphernalia.

Yes I think it was go to lincoln courier and look in archives IIRC he was arrested either dec 1 or 2 .. right in paper what he was arrested for.. but now the last 2 charges are gone..

[Silk]

I hope all these issues are brought to surface when it comes time to try this case.

Question: Can the Harris boy's attorneys bring these issues up about Gerald Miller and Rick Gee's with the pot busts and the difference in sentencing when they defend these boy's?
If their defense is "set up" why not...:confused:

[clueless]

Yes I think it was go to lincoln courier and look in archives IIRC he was arrested either dec 1 or 2 .. right in paper what he was arrested for.. but now the last 2 charges are gone..

Court was 1/20/10:

http://www.judici.com/courts/cases/case_history.jsp?court=IL054025J&ocl=IL054025J,2009DT134,IL054025JL2009DT134D1

[GentleBreeze]

IMO it's going to be over drugs not a lap top or a attempted sexual assault. IMO there will be many tesifiying in this case.. and I really don't think it's going to be all good . Just have to wait and see..

I am sure it will be a multitude of things including the stealing of the laptop and the sexual assault attempt.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I hope all these issues are brought to surface when it comes time to try this case.

Question: Can the Harris boy's attorneys bring these issues up about Gerald Miller and Rick Gee's with the pot busts and the difference in sentencing when they defend these boy's?
If their defense is "set up" why not...:confused:

What pot busts? Those many years ago? I doubt the Judge will allow that to come in since the victims aren't on trial and it is so long ago I don't see how he would rule it relevant.

How would Miller's recent arrest have anything to do with the murders that happened back months ago?

imo

[Silk]

What pot busts? Those many years ago? I doubt the Judge will allow that to come in since the victims aren't on trial and it is so long ago I don't see how he would rule it relevant.

How would Miller's recent arrest have anything to do with the murders that happened back months ago?

imo

I am in total agreement with that. I am also referring to the most recent "drug bust" with Gerald Miller...I'm just following happygert on this. Do I understand it. No, actually I am trying to . I am also trying to understand why the sexual assault and the laptop keeps coming in to play as if it were a MOTIVE. I do not recall Sheriff Nichols saying that was the motive to these murders. Unless I missed something. What I do understand is Sheriff Nichols said he clearly KNEW what the motive was behind the murders but I'm confused as to IF he said it was the attempted sexual assault and Laptop theft. It keeps being brought up and I may have missed MOTIVE from Sheriff Nichols mouth to our ears.
Help me out here.:huh:

[GentleBreeze]

I am in total agreement with that. I am also referring to the most recent "drug bust" with Gerald Miller...I'm just following happygert on this. Do I understand it. No, actually I am trying to . I am also trying to understand why the sexual assault and the laptop keeps coming in to play as if it were a MOTIVE. I do not recall Sheriff Nichols saying that was the motive to these murders. Unless I missed something. What I do understand is Sheriff Nichols said he clearly KNEW what the motive was behind the murders but I'm confused as to IF he said it was the attempted sexual assault and Laptop theft. It keeps being brought up and I may have missed MOTIVE from Sheriff Nichols mouth to our ears.
Help me out here.:huh:

I don't think the Sheriff has talked either way except he said he knew the motive. The DA in most cases are mum on the motive before trial. It was in some of the media articles though that the laptop and attempted sexual assault was the motive. I can't remember if the ones that printed the articles said they had inside sources or not.

As far as Gerald Miller's recent charges I still don't know how that would be pertinent at all in the trial of the Harris brothers.

Miller probably plead guilty and they may have dropped some of the charges. They were misdemeanor charges weren't they?

Maybe they gave Miller a break because his son had been horribly murdered just months before. I really don't know, but many times in plea deals some of the charges are either dropped or reduced. And 90% of cases are plead down and it never goes to court.

Even if the laptop and attempted sexual assault is not the full motive it will most assuredly will be a major part of the case imo.

imo

[Amy]

I am in total agreement with that. I am also referring to the most recent "drug bust" with Gerald Miller...I'm just following happygert on this. Do I understand it. No, actually I am trying to . I am also trying to understand why the sexual assault and the laptop keeps coming in to play as if it were a MOTIVE. I do not recall Sheriff Nichols saying that was the motive to these murders. Unless I missed something. What I do understand is Sheriff Nichols said he clearly KNEW what the motive was behind the murders but I'm confused as to IF he said it was the attempted sexual assault and Laptop theft. It keeps being brought up and I may have missed MOTIVE from Sheriff Nichols mouth to our ears.
Help me out here.:huh:

I understand the same as you do. Sheriff says he knows the motive, but he has not shared his knowledge w/the public. The only place I saw officially about the laptop and the attempted SA was in the list of charges. Now, I don't know if they are listed in any particular order, but IIRC neither of these charges were @ the top of the list of charges.

[GentleBreeze]

I understand the same as you do. Sheriff says he knows the motive, but he has not shared his knowledge w/the public. The only place I saw officially about the laptop and the attempted SA was in the list of charges. Now, I don't know if they are listed in any particular order, but IIRC neither of these charges were @ the top of the list of charges.

That is true.

It came out in the media.

This is one of the articles among many.

http://news.aol.com/article/police-say-sexual-assault-was-motive-in/742083

Indictments released Wednesday allege two men broke into an Illinois home to rob the family and sexually assault the teenage daughter before killing them. Raymond "Rick" Gee, his wife, Ruth Constant Gee, and three of their children were bludgeoned to death. Another child was severely injured but survived.

The indictments offer the first hints of what prosecutors think took place at the Gee home in the tiny town of Beason, about 35 miles northeast of Springfield.
They say the Harris brothers entered the home armed with a tire iron, intending to sexually assault 16-year-old Justina Constant, Ruth Gee's daughter from a previous relationship.
The brothers also planned to rob the family and took an Acer Aspire laptop computer, the documents say.

[happygert]

Fortunately, a motive is not needed for a conviction. The attempted sexual assault was probably another crime and not the motive for the murder. If these 2 louts managed to kill 5 people, I wonder what stopped whichever one attempted the s.a. The laptop was probably stolen because it contained information they did not want to be known, imo.

Are you so sure these 2 did it? I'm not. There is so much that many dont know. IMO this was over DRUGS!.. Im sure when time comes everyone will find out.

[happygert]

Well I do know this unless a person was actually there at the crime scene when these horrible crimes were taking place they cant say that the attempted sexual assault and the stealing of the laptop didn't have anything to do with it.

Motive doesn't even have to be proved but I do think the evidence of the attempted sexual assault and the stealing of the laptop will be entered at trial. It is up to the jury what weight they think it holds.

imo

Yes it's up to a jury to decide guilt or innocence. And do I really think 2 brothers killed 5 people just for a laptop or a sexual assault..NO not a snowballs chance in hell will I ever believe thats what these murders were over.

Just wait and see. There will be drugs involved in this case. and not just pot..

If you have seen lots of murders then you know very well people who dont pay certain debts or narc on others they dont give a rats azz who's there when they come after you.

Nope this case is over much more then a 3 hundred dollar laptop and a sexual assault....moo.

[happygert]

That is true.

It came out in the media.

This is one of the articles among many.

http://news.aol.com/article/police-say-sexual-assault-was-motive-in/742083

Indictments released Wednesday allege two men broke into an Illinois home to rob the family and sexually assault the teenage daughter before killing them. Raymond "Rick" Gee, his wife, Ruth Constant Gee, and three of their children were bludgeoned to death. Another child was severely injured but survived.

The indictments offer the first hints of what prosecutors think took place at the Gee home in the tiny town of Beason, about 35 miles northeast of Springfield.
They say the Harris brothers entered the home armed with a tire iron, intending to sexually assault 16-year-old Justina Constant, Ruth Gee's daughter from a previous relationship.
The brothers also planned to rob the family and took an Acer Aspire laptop computer, the documents say.

Ok what did the brothers plan to rob them of? Money? a laptop sex with their daughter? rick didnt have a JOB.. he hadnt worked for his stepdad for long time. ruth didnt work either . So what was they going to rob them of? Money? a laptop when they both had computers. or did they kill 5 people just so the could have sex with Justina?

That really sounds stupid.JMHO..
kill 5 people for a laptop and sex?

[GentleBreeze]

Ok what did the brothers plan to rob them of? Money? a laptop sex with their daughter? rick didn't have a JOB.. he hadn't worked for his stepdad for long time. ruth didn't work either . So what was they going to rob them of? Money? a laptop when they both had computers. or did they kill 5 people just so the could have sex with Justina?

That really sounds stupid.JMHO..
kill 5 people for a laptop and sex?

Many crimes are done for stupid reasons.

Well if they both had computers of their own Gert isn't it interesting that they decided to steal this particular laptop? So they really didn't need it if they had one of their own but they did steal it. I believe anytime a known suspect to the family takes items away from the crime scene it is to protect themselves.

JMO

[Silk]

Many crimes are done for stupid reasons.

Well if they both had computers of their own Gert isn't it interesting that they decided to steal this particular laptop? So they really didn't need it if they had one of their own but they did steal it. I believe anytime a known suspect to the family takes items away from the crime scene it is to protect themselves.

JMO

No One killed anyone just for a laptop and sex. I don't know why we keep coming back to this. The bottom line is whatever they were there for and why they killed this family they felt the need to make sure they took the laptop with them for reasons of their own.
It clearly sounds to me that drugs were definitely involved. I think it would be safe to say this family was killed over a DRUG issue and the laptop was taken to protect the perps from someone getting information that would lead to the perps.

[GentleBreeze]

Yes it's up to a jury to decide guilt or innocence. And do I really think 2 brothers killed 5 people just for a laptop or a sexual assault..NO not a snowballs chance in hell will I ever believe thats what these murders were over.

Just wait and see. There will be drugs involved in this case. and not just pot..

If you have seen lots of murders then you know very well people who don't pay certain debts or narc on others they don't give a rats azz who's there when they come after you.

Nope this case is over much more then a 3 hundred dollar laptop and a sexual assault....moo.

You are certainly right. It is for the jury to decide and they will.

Are you saying that Chris and Jason murdered five people because of drugs? Completely wiped out an entire family including youths and forever changed the life of a little girl? How do you think this is going to work in the favor of the defense? Do you really think the jury is going to give them a pass just because drugs may have been involved?

I really don't care about their motives that much. Motives in cases are usually senseless and illogical. What is very important to me is 5 people were brutally killed and I do wholeheartedly believe that the evidence will point to the Harris brothers only. Imo, the DA is going to put the defendants at the crime scene by the introduction of evidence.

So if their motive was drugs they are going to be sent to death row imo. No motive is ever going to outweigh the deaths of young children and the attempted death of another small child imo.

The DA does not have to prove motive and the jury does not have to be unanimous when it comes to what they think the motives were. They each can believe what motive they wish to believe since motive is not a required element that has to be proven anyway.

The DA has to prove three things only.

!. Identify the Victims
2. Deaths were due to homicide
3. Chris and Jason Harris are the ones that killed them beyond a reasonable doubt.

The other charges in the indictment will have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt but just one guilty verdict concerning the murders of the Gee family can put these men on death row because they were in the commission of other felonies when it happened.

LE already has the computer in their possession that was taken from the home of one of the suspects in a search warrant. That alone shows it was stolen from the Gee home and shows the defendants were at the crime scene when the murders happened imo.

imo