Survivors of Suicide, Alcoholism, Addiction, Cancer

[allaboutfair]

I was asked about bringing the "Survivor" threads back and I thought I'd combine them into one. There is strength, I believe, in the healing powers of many.

I have been touched either personally or by stories of suicide, alcoholism, addiction, and cancer. I lost a brother to suicide, had some family members with alcoholism, and have either lost to or have friends and family survive cancer.

I believe the fall/winter weather is sometimes a depressing time for so many. With so many holidays over these months, we may feel the loss of our loved ones more keenly. So I wish you all wellness and healing. Be a survivor.

[tootie]

Winter is very depressing for me. I attribute that to SAD (seasonal affect disorder). Less sun = depressing for me. I have even done tanning (which I don't normally do) in the winter to make up for lack of sun. Has nothing to do with the tan itself just the light that you get from it.

I had a friend who passed away at the age of 38. Inlaws passed away in the winter a few years back. My moms mom committed suicide in the winter a very long time ago. It's hard to face the holidays without loved ones around. I am fortunate I still have my parents but each Christmas I wonder in the back of my head if it will be their last. :sad:

Peace to all who have lost a loved one and the courage to move forward. :rose:

[Jayne]

Ditto on the above posts - to the sentiments, encouragement and understanding. IA that the holiday season is often not so happy for many because of these losses and issues.

I hope others reach out to others to try to make the holidays happier and filled who are alone or struggling with loss, etc.

J

[allaboutfair]

Winter is very depressing for me. I attribute that to SAD (seasonal affect disorder). Less sun = depressing for me. I have even done tanning (which I don't normally do) in the winter to make up for lack of sun. Has nothing to do with the tan itself just the light that you get from it.

I had a friend who passed away at the age of 38. Inlaws passed away in the winter a few years back. My moms mom committed suicide in the winter a very long time ago. It's hard to face the holidays without loved ones around. I am fortunate I still have my parents but each Christmas I wonder in the back of my head if it will be their last. :sad:

Peace to all who have lost a loved one and the courage to move forward. :rose:


Hi, Tootie - I am so sorry to hear of your losses and I can imagine that they probably weigh heavily on you during this time of year. SAD is a very real disease - have you mentioned it to your doctor? I thought there was some sort of medication or something you could do to make up for the chemical change due to lack of sun.

I, too, have been stressing about the aging of my parents and my in-laws. My father was just discharged a week ago, having spent three months in the hospital and rehab starting with a bout of pneumonia. This was out year to spend Thanksgiving with them. We were so thankful to have this time with him as he so nearly died. I have been at there house almost every weekend since he was admitted in August. I am struck hard at how frail he suddenly is. During this time my father-in-law has twice been in the hospital - he is there now. I know the time will come when they will not be with us, but I am grateful for the time they are here.

Embrace this time that you have with your parents, Tootie. Keep building those memories and relive old memories with them. May you have many more wonderful years to celebrate with them!

[allaboutfair]

Ditto on the above posts - to the sentiments, encouragement and understanding. IA that the holiday season is often not so happy for many because of these losses and issues.

I hope others reach out to others to try to make the holidays happier and filled who are alone or struggling with loss, etc.

J


Thanks, Jayne. I have heard from so many that don't look forward to the winter and the holiday season with joy - sometimes just because so many do that they sometimes feel there is something lacking within them - that they're missing something. So, perhaps by all showing support to each other we can fill some of that void.

[AngelWings]

I can't read this type of thread cause they make me cry.

The only reason I following these cases where these little angels are hurt/killed is to make sure justice prevails.

bwt, I have lung cancer but there is nothing to talk about. I'm in remission and am trying to lose weight...bought a "total gym" and almost broke my neck on it. Maybe I should start at page one instead of page 40......:thumbsup:

God Bless ya...I would start on page 40 also....:lol:....

I get teary of these threads too...I have to keep myself focused on all the good that has come to me in my life and not the bad. Winter months, that seemsharder than the rest of the year..but we just need to get up and go...every day!!!

[Jayne]

Holidays were often lonely..even when I had both of my parents when I couldn't afford to drive the 6-7 hours to go visit or have time off of work. Now..with Mom deceased, my Grandma in one state, my Dad still at home..and I and my son 3K miles away. OH..I love my son, so so much...but I miss the surprise or smiles on my parents' faces..when coming home (often I wouldn't tell them..and just show up...because they didn't want me spending the gas or time to get there!). Won't happen again. And, that's rather sad.

What I find is soothing and I love them all year is those little lights, colourful at Christmas, white all year round. (Solvang has lights all year..there is something so soothing and magical about the town). I love Christmas Music, the manger scenes and the church services.

One year, My mother said she was too tired, sick, unhappy, etc. so that she didn't put up the little ceramic tree I'd given her years ago. Afterwards, she put it up in January, when she realized, something about it would have lifted her spirits. I put up those little white lights in her sleeping room..oh, about 3 years ago and told her to just put them on when you're just resting, maybe, like a night light. She liked them. She said they were like Comforting Joyful Tears of Angels.

I hope everyone will find some peace, comfort and joy during this season. Not block out the season and what it means and enjoy it as it fits your style.

jmo

J

[beespence]

Last Tuesday I lost my brother to alcoholism...he lost his battle....a friend who also struggles ...was at her meeting when she received the news....she gave me her sobriety coin ...I placed it in my brothers urn....with the hopes ....that she knows it is there and may give her the strength she needs to heal from this terrible addition....my heart breaks to think of life without him...although I know he suffers no more....RIP Gord :rose:

[Jayne]

Last Tuesday I lost my brother to alcoholism...he lost his battle....a friend who also struggles ...was at her meeting when she received the news....she gave me her sobriety coin ...I placed it in my brothers urn....with the hopes ....that she knows it is there and may give her the strength she needs to heal from this terrible addition....my heart breaks to think of life without him...although I know he suffers no more....RIP Gord :rose:

Oh, bees...condolences to you and your family on the loss of your brother. RIP Gord...

J

[Jayne]

I can't read this type of thread cause they make me cry.

The only reason I following these cases where these little angels are hurt/killed is to make sure justice prevails.

bwt, I have lung cancer but there is nothing to talk about. I'm in remission and am trying to lose weight...bought a "total gym" and almost broke my neck on it. Maybe I should start at page one instead of page 40......:thumbsup:

Oh..you will be in my prayers S & Go...You can beat it, I do believe that. My Dad beat cancer 17 years ago - base of one lung - and it's not come back. I will continue to hope for the best for you that it stays far far away.

enjoy that total gym! (I'd probably break my neck on it, too!)

J

[Valkyrie08]

Hi,
I've never posted on any of the suicide,alcoholism,addiction, and cancer threads before, but tonight I feel like joining in and sharing as well.My aunt on my father's side of the family was diagnosed with breast cancer about a month ago. Fortunately, it was caught early and she had a lumpectomy. She's now undergoing radiation therapy. She does have some weakness, but she's still doing work around the house and is in great spirits.
I also have an uncle on my father's side who is battling lung cancer. He was diagnosed almost two years ago. IIRC, doctors found a tumor in each of his lungs. I honestly didn't think he was going to live more than 6 months. I talked with him on the phone this Thanksgiving weekend, and he was in great spirits. A recent scan of his lungs came out clear. It's too soon to say he's cancer-free, but I'm so happy with how he's doing.

I've also recently learned that I have a family history of alcoholism on my mother's side of the family.

[allaboutfair]

I can't read this type of thread cause they make me cry.

The only reason I following these cases where these little angels are hurt/killed is to make sure justice prevails.

bwt, I have lung cancer but there is nothing to talk about. I'm in remission and am trying to lose weight...bought a "total gym" and almost broke my neck on it. Maybe I should start at page one instead of page 40......:thumbsup:


Silver, welcome! I pray for healing for you that you may continue in remission. That is wonderful news that you're in remission.

[allaboutfair]

God Bless ya...I would start on page 40 also....:lol:....

I get teary of these threads too...I have to keep myself focused on all the good that has come to me in my life and not the bad. Winter months, that seemsharder than the rest of the year..but we just need to get up and go...every day!!!


Hi, AngelWings - I believe there is always good in something. Some how, some way, there is good. I have always been so touched by the caring and kindness that our posters share in support and understanding.

[allaboutfair]

Its very therapeutic for those of us that have gone through this stuff to commiserate, silver n go. If you are happy and have no winter blues, don't read it. It is depressing if it ain't you.
My dad died, of course, last December. Pile one more event on to make winter suck suck suck. I hate winter so much its now extended to the colors of fall- orange, brown, red, because they signal the coming winter. Ugh. Snow is pretty but just on Christmas Eve. My husbands dad died on Dec 23rd. Hes the 2nd husband I have had that has blackness and moodiness around the holidays. So my hubby mopes around. He hates a blinking christmas tree so I am just not putting one up this year. Feels foreign to me, but one less reminder what time of year it is. Not to mention I am broke as a joke from October till February every years, first all kids b'days, then all the grnadkids b'days, then thanskgiving then christmas. The heating bill. The fact that I hate my winter coat which is a 4 yr old (4 yeas since I have had it) hand me down. I just can't find one I like so I have given up looking.
\
Tomorrow night Robbi, her hub,me and my hub are going to a big Christmas/ holiday party in B'More for tranplants and recipients and donors and waiting list people, and their families. I never went to any of the holiday parties at my transplant center. So It should be nice. Whenever that many ppl w/ a common cause like that get together, its really magical.



Oh, Abbie! You must tell us about the party. I'll bet there are many miracles there!

[allaboutfair]

Not offering any advice of your losses at Christmas...but aren't all losses any time hard to take?

I know what you mean about the closeness you feel with your group..I feel that way with the chemo department...

anyway....Love and Joy !



I don't have SAD and am not depressed by the holidays - I love Christmas lights and they fill me with joy. However, I know that there is another side to that. I think some are depressed because we are "supposed to be" happy around the holidays. It is what the media broadcasts. So I believe that because of the media blitz, some people may become more depressed because they feel lacking in some way. The holidays tend to be about family and some people have sad memories about family or are without. I know several people who reach out during that time volunteering at shelters or soup kitchens or partaking some way in reaching out because there are so many people struggling over the holidays. These people that I know are filled with joy in the reaching out and touching human life.

Does that all make sense?

[allaboutfair]

Holidays were often lonely..even when I had both of my parents when I couldn't afford to drive the 6-7 hours to go visit or have time off of work. Now..with Mom deceased, my Grandma in one state, my Dad still at home..and I and my son 3K miles away. OH..I love my son, so so much...but I miss the surprise or smiles on my parents' faces..when coming home (often I wouldn't tell them..and just show up...because they didn't want me spending the gas or time to get there!). Won't happen again. And, that's rather sad.

What I find is soothing and I love them all year is those little lights, colourful at Christmas, white all year round. (Solvang has lights all year..there is something so soothing and magical about the town). I love Christmas Music, the manger scenes and the church services.

One year, My mother said she was too tired, sick, unhappy, etc. so that she didn't put up the little ceramic tree I'd given her years ago. Afterwards, she put it up in January, when she realized, something about it would have lifted her spirits. I put up those little white lights in her sleeping room..oh, about 3 years ago and told her to just put them on when you're just resting, maybe, like a night light. She liked them. She said they were like Comforting Joyful Tears of Angels.

I hope everyone will find some peace, comfort and joy during this season. Not block out the season and what it means and enjoy it as it fits your style.

jmo

J



Oh, Jayne! I have been to Solvang! It is a magical town!

[allaboutfair]

Last Tuesday I lost my brother to alcoholism...he lost his battle....a friend who also struggles ...was at her meeting when she received the news....she gave me her sobriety coin ...I placed it in my brothers urn....with the hopes ....that she knows it is there and may give her the strength she needs to heal from this terrible addition....my heart breaks to think of life without him...although I know he suffers no more....RIP Gord :rose:



Beespence, words can not express my sorrow for you. I know how heavily it must weigh on your heart. I am so sorry. Prayers for healing for you, your family, and your friend. :rose:

[allaboutfair]

Hi,
I've never posted on any of the suicide,alcoholism,addiction, and cancer threads before, but tonight I feel like joining in and sharing as well.My aunt on my father's side of the family was diagnosed with breast cancer about a month ago. Fortunately, it was caught early and she had a lumpectomy. She's now undergoing radiation therapy. She does have some weakness, but she's still doing work around the house and is in great spirits.
I also have an uncle on my father's side who is battling lung cancer. He was diagnosed almost two years ago. IIRC, doctors found a tumor in each of his lungs. I honestly didn't think he was going to live more than 6 months. I talked with him on the phone this Thanksgiving weekend, and he was in great spirits. A recent scan of his lungs came out clear. It's too soon to say he's cancer-free, but I'm so happy with how he's doing.

I've also recently learned that I have a family history of alcoholism on my mother's side of the family.


Valkyrie, I'm glad you decided to post! Prayers that both your aunt and uncle continue to heal! Please keep us posted!

[Pretty Leaf]

Bees, I am so sorry for your loss. Losing a brother no matter what the circumstances is so sad. Thoughts and hugs to you.

There have been so many diagnosis in my world lately

SIL dying of progressive breast cancer..to lung, liver and now bone. She asked if she will be here for January and doc just looked at her, we all know she is on borrowed time, doc actually told her that.. 57 yrs old

Then her husband diagnosed with prostrate cancer. Early stages waiting on surgery but since his wife is dying there is a "do it now while she is living "or wait it out and then it could spread. 59yrs

Best friend mom BC operating on Dec 10 totally mastectomy 82yrs old

Next door neighbour mom BC total mastectomy on Nov 11.. 75 yrs old

Son's best friend, brain cancer 27yrs old


Now today, and this floored me, my old boss. Pancreatic/liver cancer. Sore stomach last week, cancer this week. He is like Santa Clause always chipper and full of the ol Scottish pride. When I got sick he bombarded me with e-mails, some in support but mostly humourous, and some "dirty". Made me smile when I was in a abyss.

He was counting the days, literally, on a calendar to retirement, 19 months away. Now this. I just got the call and when writting out a card for him was shaking and crying. He won't know my writing because I could not steady my hand. 61 yrs old.

What in the world is going on???

[chicken soup]

I'm a new poster. Our winters are notoriously dark and rainy so lots of people, myself include suffer from SAD. Several years ago my husband constructed an lamp using all spectrum light bulbs. It's on the wall next to the chair where I work most of the day. It works like a charm because it mimics the sun. I noticed a similar lamp for sale in out local Costco for about $200. The one my husband made cost about $40. It uses two all spectrum florescent bulbs in an ordinary wall mounted light. I hope it works for you as well as its worked for me

[allaboutfair]

Bees, I am so sorry for your loss. Losing a brother no matter what the circumstances is so sad. Thoughts and hugs to you.

There have been so many diagnosis in my world lately

SIL dying of progressive breast cancer..to lung, liver and now bone. She asked if she will be here for January and doc just looked at her, we all know she is on borrowed time, doc actually told her that.. 57 yrs old

Then her husband diagnosed with prostrate cancer. Early stages waiting on surgery but since his wife is dying there is a "do it now while she is living "or wait it out and then it could spread. 59yrs

Best friend mom BC operating on Dec 10 totally mastectomy 82yrs old

Next door neighbour mom BC total mastectomy on Nov 11.. 75 yrs old

Son's best friend, brain cancer 27yrs old


Now today, and this floored me, my old boss. Pancreatic/liver cancer. Sore stomach last week, cancer this week. He is like Santa Clause always chipper and full of the ol Scottish pride. When I got sick he bombarded me with e-mails, some in support but mostly humourous, and some "dirty". Made me smile when I was in a abyss.

He was counting the days, literally, on a calendar to retirement, 19 months away. Now this. I just got the call and when writting out a card for him was shaking and crying. He won't know my writing because I could not steady my hand. 61 yrs old.

What in the world is going on???



Oh, PL, you are overwhelmed with it. I do feel that there are more and more cases of cancer and it's scary. I also keep wondering if there IS a correlation with how much plastic we are using nowadays. I hear mixed reviews and I think there may be something to it.

Which has nothing to do with the ache we feel and I'm sorry you've been so surrounded by it. :sad:

[allaboutfair]

I'm a new poster. Our winters are notoriously dark and rainy so lots of people, myself include suffer from SAD. Several years ago my husband constructed an lamp using all spectrum light bulbs. It's on the wall next to the chair where I work most of the day. It works like a charm because it mimics the sun. I noticed a similar lamp for sale in out local Costco for about $200. The one my husband made cost about $40. It uses two all spectrum florescent bulbs in an ordinary wall mounted light. I hope it works for you as well as its worked for me



Welcome, Chicken Soup! What good advice and affordable, too! I hope it helps other posters.

[Grins]

It is good to be home with Peace and all my friends.
My experience recovering from depression and alcoholism is that healing and coping are enhanced as we gather and say what is on our hearts. Often, we have no other place to do that.

A friend is born for a time of trouble.
We are friends who accept each other unconditionally.

We cherish you so let all aches of eye and heart perish under the warm welcoming wings of your friends.

[Pretty Leaf]

It is good to be home with Peace and all my friends.
My experience recovering from depression and alcoholism is that healing and coping are enhanced as we gather and say what is on our hearts. Often, we have no other place to do that.

A friend is born for a time of trouble.
We are friends who accept each other unconditionally.

We cherish you so let all aches of eye and heart perish under the warm welcoming wings of your friends.

Hi Grins!!!:wub:

Long time no see, here we grow again. New posters, new stories and old ones relive.

[tootie]

Hi, Tootie - I am so sorry to hear of your losses and I can imagine that they probably weigh heavily on you during this time of year. SAD is a very real disease - have you mentioned it to your doctor? I thought there was some sort of medication or something you could do to make up for the chemical change due to lack of sun.

I, too, have been stressing about the aging of my parents and my in-laws. My father was just discharged a week ago, having spent three months in the hospital and rehab starting with a bout of pneumonia. This was out year to spend Thanksgiving with them. We were so thankful to have this time with him as he so nearly died. I have been at there house almost every weekend since he was admitted in August. I am struck hard at how frail he suddenly is. During this time my father-in-law has twice been in the hospital - he is there now. I know the time will come when they will not be with us, but I am grateful for the time they are here.

Embrace this time that you have with your parents, Tootie. Keep building those memories and relive old memories with them. May you have many more wonderful years to celebrate with them!

I have not mentioned it to the doctor. Also I don't know if there is a medication for SAD or not. I do take an antidepressant but it does not help for the winter blues. From wiki, under treatment the first thing they mention is bright light therapy....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_affective_disorder

There are many different treatments for classic (winter-based) seasonal affective disorder, including bright light therapy, medication, ionized-air administration, cognitive-behavioral therapy and carefully timed supplementation[18] of the hormone melatonin.

I did not know about the melatonin and I do take melatonin to help with sleep. It does state antidepressants as being effective but I don't take fluoxetine and refuse to do so as I have had ill effects on that med years ago. It also mentions Vitamin D. Having worked in a medical office setting and taking blood I can attest to the fact that a lot of peoples V-D level does come back abnormal. I used to take that but haven't in awhile so I may go pick some up.

Jayne you are right when you stated, I hope others reach out to others to try to make the holidays happier and filled who are alone or struggling with loss, etc.

I used to go to the hospitals and visit those in the critical care waiting rooms around the holidays because I knew what it was like to have loved ones in there at this time of year. I really should do that again.

Beespence, I am so sorry to hear about your brother. :rose:

[AngelWings]

Hi Grins!!!:wub:

Long time no see, here we grow again. New posters, new stories and old ones relive.


PL & Grins...2 of my fav's..nice to see you and all our posters again.

bees..sorry about your brother..may he RIP :rose:

Hi fair & tootie..always nice to see you too.

Welcome Valky & chicken soup..so nice to meet you both.

:wub: to y'all!!!!

[Grins]

Hi Grins!!!:wub:

Long time no see, here we grow again. New posters, new stories and old ones relive.

:thumbsup: Hiya Pretty Leaf! Your "here we grow again" is so true.
Hi to AngelWings and all~
Recovery is an ongoing and joyful process. We get better each day as we monitor what we are thinking about. Then take action.

It is helpful to keep a journal. What were your most happy and most disturbing thoughts of the day.
You may be surprised as I was.

[allaboutfair]

It is good to be home with Peace and all my friends.
My experience recovering from depression and alcoholism is that healing and coping are enhanced as we gather and say what is on our hearts. Often, we have no other place to do that.

A friend is born for a time of trouble.
We are friends who accept each other unconditionally.

We cherish you so let all aches of eye and heart perish under the warm welcoming wings of your friends.



There you are, my friend! I thought I was going to have to come fetch you! :wink:

[allaboutfair]

I have not mentioned it to the doctor. Also I don't know if there is a medication for SAD or not. I do take an antidepressant but it does not help for the winter blues. From wiki, under treatment the first thing they mention is bright light therapy....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_affective_disorder

I did not know about the melatonin and I do take melatonin to help with sleep. It does state antidepressants as being effective but I don't take fluoxetine and refuse to do so as I have had ill effects on that med years ago. It also mentions Vitamin D. Having worked in a medical office setting and taking blood I can attest to the fact that a lot of peoples V-D level does come back abnormal. I used to take that but haven't in awhile so I may go pick some up.

Jayne you are right when you stated,

I used to go to the hospitals and visit those in the critical care waiting rooms around the holidays because I knew what it was like to have loved ones in there at this time of year. I really should do that again.

Beespence, I am so sorry to hear about your brother. :rose:



Hi, Tootie - I do hope that you find something that really helps your SAD. It must be very frustrating to live with!

[allaboutfair]

PL & Grins...2 of my fav's..nice to see you and all our posters again.

bees..sorry about your brother..may he RIP :rose:

Hi fair & tootie..always nice to see you too.

Welcome Valky & chicken soup..so nice to meet you both.

:wub: to y'all!!!!



Hiya, Angel!

[StickyBeak]

I just wanted to say Thank You All, I so needed some prospective.
Life is not as bad as it seems when you see what others are dealing with. My thoughts and prayers with you. Thankful to have a place to vent and gain insight. I just cannot put into words just yet, haven't come to my own realization. Going day by day and the grace of God.
Be Well

[tootie]

Holidays were often lonely..even when I had both of my parents when I couldn't afford to drive the 6-7 hours to go visit or have time off of work. Now..with Mom deceased, my Grandma in one state, my Dad still at home..and I and my son 3K miles away. OH..I love my son, so so much...but I miss the surprise or smiles on my parents' faces..when coming home (often I wouldn't tell them..and just show up...because they didn't want me spending the gas or time to get there!). Won't happen again. And, that's rather sad.
What I find is soothing and I love them all year is those little lights, colourful at Christmas, white all year round. (Solvang has lights all year..there is something so soothing and magical about the town). I love Christmas Music, the manger scenes and the church services.

One year, My mother said she was too tired, sick, unhappy, etc. so that she didn't put up the little ceramic tree I'd given her years ago. Afterwards, she put it up in January, when she realized, something about it would have lifted her spirits. I put up those little white lights in her sleeping room..oh, about 3 years ago and told her to just put them on when you're just resting, maybe, like a night light. She liked them. She said they were like Comforting Joyful Tears of Angels.

I hope everyone will find some peace, comfort and joy during this season. Not block out the season and what it means and enjoy it as it fits your style.

jmo

J

Thanks for sharing Jayne. We have one of those ceramic trees that my MIL (now deceased) made. It has all the little lights on it. I'll have to take a picture and let you see it. I bet it is the same kind. Brings back memories for sure. Sorry about your mom and dad. :sad:


Hi, Tootie - I do hope that you find something that really helps your SAD. It must be very frustrating to live with!

Thank you. I've lived with it a long time. I don't seek anything to help with that medicinally speaking. I just live for spring to come which is a sign that I made it through another winter. That and wait to see what Punxsutawney Phil has to say on groundhog day. :laugh:

[allaboutfair]

I just wanted to say Thank You All, I so needed some prospective.
Life is not as bad as it seems when you see what others are dealing with. My thoughts and prayers with you. Thankful to have a place to vent and gain insight. I just cannot put into words just yet, haven't come to my own realization. Going day by day and the grace of God.
Be Well



Whenever you are ready to put things into words, we are here, StickyBeak.

[allaboutfair]

*snipped*

Thank you. I've lived with it a long time. I don't seek anything to help with that medicinally speaking. I just live for spring to come which is a sign that I made it through another winter. That and wait to see what Punxsutawney Phil has to say on groundhog day. :laugh:



Haha, good ol' Punx! I can never remember what it means when he sees his shadow or not!

[Grins]

************
I Melt

Big and strong guy I am
fierce of visage do not mess with me
but when shopping I see a baby
smile
with a proud new Mom
shining out a mile
I melt

Hearing a duet by singers blessed with
voices so sweet my feet enter the
vestibule of Heaven lifting me
to a mystical place
I melt

Recalling my wedding day swept away
by the beauty of my bride my pride
at her side hopes dreams we had
happy and sad
I melt

Knowing that in all my years all my tears
caused and suffered with regrets and joys
no matter what I was loved I had a friend
I mattered to some and lately to more
I melt

When I awake I take a moment to say
Thank You, God
for all you have given me done for me
for loving me when my heart was ice
for knowing the sorrow I felt
and
most of all
for sending your Son to hold me until
I melt~


along with
Grins

***

[Grins]

There is recovery from your addiction

After years of alcoholism and smoking, I have been free of both for thirteen years.

First comes the decision,
then one day at a time.
Get medical supervision as you begin recovery to avoid early problems.

[Hanalei]

I'm a survivor myself from a suicide attempt 15 yrs ago I will never do it again. I've come from a family with depression and drug issues. I lost my younger sister almost 4 yrs ago. She was a addict but she died from a bacteria infection a week after New Years so that week after New Years is always sad. My father,aunt and uncle all died from suicide. I hated my dad so I really not sad about that but I was sad when my aunt took her life. I was 15 at the time when she did it and she was so fun.


I was asked about bringing the "Survivor" threads back and I thought I'd combine them into one. There is strength, I believe, in the healing powers of many.

I have been touched either personally or by stories of suicide, alcoholism, addiction, and cancer. I lost a brother to suicide, had some family members with alcoholism, and have either lost to or have friends and family survive cancer.

I believe the fall/winter weather is sometimes a depressing time for so many. With so many holidays over these months, we may feel the loss of our loved ones more keenly. So I wish you all wellness and healing. Be a survivor.

[Riverwalk!]

For all of you that are struggling with addiction:

Here's a music video from a very, very good friend of mine/my oldest son's.

HE Carries Me by Cory Morrow ..... enjoy. "Sometimes I forget to forgive even me" ........ says a lot doesn't it???????

Turn up your speakers for this Texas guy!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3h9ggiqUYc

Lyrics: http://www.onlylyrics.com/hits.php?grid=8&id=1018273
scroll down to read the lyrics

[allaboutfair]

************
I Melt

Big and strong guy I am
fierce of visage do not mess with me
but when shopping I see a baby
smile
with a proud new Mom
shining out a mile
I melt

Hearing a duet by singers blessed with
voices so sweet my feet enter the
vestibule of Heaven lifting me
to a mystical place
I melt

Recalling my wedding day swept away
by the beauty of my bride my pride
at her side hopes dreams we had
happy and sad
I melt

Knowing that in all my years all my tears
caused and suffered with regrets and joys
no matter what I was loved I had a friend
I mattered to some and lately to more
I melt

When I awake I take a moment to say
Thank You, God
for all you have given me done for me
for loving me when my heart was ice
for knowing the sorrow I felt
and
most of all
for sending your Son to hold me until
I melt~


along with
Grins

***



I love this, Grins!

[allaboutfair]

I'm a survivor myself from a suicide attempt 15 yrs ago I will never do it again. I've come from a family with depression and drug issues. I lost my younger sister almost 4 yrs ago. She was a addict but she died from a bacteria infection a week after New Years so that week after New Years is always sad. My father,aunt and uncle all died from suicide. I hated my dad so I really not sad about that but I was sad when my aunt took her life. I was 15 at the time when she did it and she was so fun.



Hanalei, I am so sorry. You have been surrounded by sadness. I am glad you are a survivor and I hope that you have now broken the legacy and are getting some help to make sure you never get to that place again.

[allaboutfair]

For all of you that are struggling with addiction:

Here's a music video from a very, very good friend of mine/my oldest son's.

HE Carries Me by Cory Morrow ..... enjoy. "Sometimes I forget to forgive even me" ........ says a lot doesn't it???????

Turn up your speakers for this Texas guy!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3h9ggiqUYc

Lyrics: http://www.onlylyrics.com/hits.php?grid=8&id=1018273
scroll down to read the lyrics



Beautiful!

[Hanalei]

Thanks! Yes depression is a very dark place that I never want to visit again. Because of my family's history of it at least I know what I need to do for myself to fight it. I'm fine now and at a better place as long as I stay away from my messed up family. They are not healthy emotionally for me. I care for my mother but she needs to get her life in order for me to have a relationship with her again.


Hanalei, I am so sorry. You have been surrounded by sadness. I am glad you are a survivor and I hope that you have now broken the legacy and are getting some help to make sure you never get to that place again.

[Grins]

Thanks! Yes depression is a very dark place that I never want to visit again. Because of my family's history of it at least I know what I need to do for myself to fight it. I'm fine now and at a better place as long as I stay away from my messed up family. They are not healthy emotionally for me. I care for my mother but she needs to get her life in order for me to have a relationship with her again.Welcome Hanalei~very pretty nic!
Some people are toxic to us and must be simply avoided. They never change and always drag us down. This is widely recognized and often overlooked because a family member is involved.
If family members had the Black Death we would avoid them.Rule #i for me is
Take care of myself.

This site helped me very much and still does.
http://depression.about.com/

Some of the content outlined:
"Browse Topic

* Am I Depressed?
* Who's at Risk?
* Causes of Depression
* Types of Depression
* Treatments for Depression
* Getting Help
* Support Resources
* Coping Skills
* True Stories of Depression
* Suicide and Self-Injury
* Your Rights
* Depression Facts
* FAQs
* Glossary

In Crisis?
Whom to Call If You Are Feeling Suicidal

If you are considering suicide, help is available. In the U.S., call 1-800-784-2433 or 1-800-273-8255. Click for more options.
Read more
Further Reading

* How to Help Someone Who Is Feeling Suicidal
* Suicide Warning Signs
* Suicide Myths Quiz .."

http://depression.about.com/

[Grins]

Toxic Relationships and the Quality of Life

Distinguishing Between Functional and Dysfunctional Relationships

Jan 19, 2009 Nelson Acquilano

"...According to psychologist, Dr. Lillian Glass, author of Toxic People (Simon and Schuster, 1995) a toxic person is "anyone who manages to drag you down, make you feel angry, worn out, deflated, belittled or confused."
Healthy Relationships

Healthy relationships support, encourage, inspire, and help one to improve and develop in a natural and functional manner. Healthy relationships are not just desirable, they are essential to human growth and development - and satisfaction and fulfillment in life. They show kindness, spontaneous warmth and affection, trust, acceptance, understanding and mutual support and encouragement. In healthy relationships, one feels safe, valued and respected.

In contrast to healthy relationships, are the toxic relationships. More often than not, these are emotionally abusive such as mind games and put downs, playing the blame game, instilling guilt, manipulating, or telling jokes which are really disguised humiliation. They tend to drain people of energy and inflict pain...."

http://improving-relationships.suite101.com/article.cfm/toxic_relationships_and_the_quality_of_life

[allaboutfair]

Thanks! Yes depression is a very dark place that I never want to visit again. Because of my family's history of it at least I know what I need to do for myself to fight it. I'm fine now and at a better place as long as I stay away from my messed up family. They are not healthy emotionally for me. I care for my mother but she needs to get her life in order for me to have a relationship with her again.


You have a very healthy outlook on it, Hanalei. It must be hard to stay away from your family, but I'm sure it's necessary for your own survival. Good for you! Healthy is good and we do have to avoid things that make us unhealthy. :thumbup:

[Grins]

This is the key to my recovery from depression and alcoholism.
~~~~~~~
I Learn
Why I Believe, Feel, Think and Behave As I Do
```````````````
Here is a key to my recovering from depression stated in a form of suggested school topics:

Start in School to
Learn how and why we act as we do!

The reason for courses in how to live a healthy life; sources and causes of depression; suicide or violence prevention; and how to handle relationships, is to find the causes and conditions which lead to the behavior.
It should be part of a larger course of study we may call

"My Beliefs Can Help Me Or Kill Me"

In 19 years of schooling, I was never taught why I behave the way I do.

Now I know.
=My beliefs form early and continue
=Beliefs are the Window through which I see me, you and the World
=I see the World not as it is but as I am
=Beliefs control my thinking, feelings and behavior

What is on my Belief Window?
=If I believe my parents did not love me then
= my new belief is that I am inherently unlovable and
I think so, feel so and act so
=that leads to thinking...
=If no one loves me as I am, I must create a "me" who
people will love and respect
=my belief then is that I can create a personality to please and impress the person I am with at the time
=I do not realize that the Beliefs fromed in early childhood will control my Thinking, Feelings and Behavior for my entire life
UNLESS I change the wrong and false Beliefs
by replacing them with True and Healthy Beliefs

We see only the behavior; we need to be taught how to examine our Beliefs and change those which are mistaken, unfounded, unhealthy and not based on fact or reality.

Am I inherently unlovable?
no
Did I believe so"
yes
Did my belief, thinking and feelings lead to my depressed feelings and behavior which led me to form a suicide plan?
yes

Belief>causes>Thinking>causes>Feelings and all cause>>Behavior

Drill it in like multiplication tables from grade 1 through forever~~

What do you all think?

[WillowInFlight]

Grins I saw your name so I had to stop and say HAPPY HOLIDAYS BUDDY!!!! Stay safe my friend!

[allaboutfair]

Good to see you, Willow!

[WillowInFlight]

Good to see you, Willow!

(((((((((PEACE)))))))))) This can be such a tough time of the year, all the demons seem to come out. I'm not letting it get to me this year, I'm kinda taking a vacation from it.
Merry Christmas Peace.

[Grins]

Grins I saw your name so I had to stop and say HAPPY HOLIDAYS BUDDY!!!! Stay safe my friend!Dear friend~Happy Days and Years to you as well~

WillowInFlight
beauty of name and nature
a forever part of
my heart

[Grins]

Applying What I Learned
about my Belief Window

What I do is look at my past unhealthy behavior and trace each aspect back to a wrong or false belief.

So I saw my life-long desire to please everyone and to over-achieve as a result of the wrong belief that love and respect depend on my burning out for others and success in everything I do.
NOW
my belief is:
I am worthy of being loved because I am a person.

period

What a relief; no more solving all the problems I see
it is ok to do things just for
me

Do my best=that is ok=if I fail
that is ok too=
NOW you can criticize me; I will not die from it.....

[Grins]

Thank you Peace
for this thread
may we each have peace and joy
today
knowing we can~

[allaboutfair]

(((((((((PEACE)))))))))) This can be such a tough time of the year, all the demons seem to come out. I'm not letting it get to me this year, I'm kinda taking a vacation from it.
Merry Christmas Peace.



Merry Christmas to you, too, Willow! Remember that you are worth that and more! Don't let the demons in - they're not welcome.

[allaboutfair]

Thank you Peace
for this thread
may we each have peace and joy
today
knowing we can~



Oh, Grins, you are welcome, but I only start the thread. It is our wonderful posters who make it what it is.

[Grins]

Celebrating peace
and
Peace~

The most stunning light displays ever!
Safe and fun site.

CHRISTMAS LIGHTS - CLICK HERE (http://www.funny-potato.com/christmas-lights.html)

Reminds me of me of times when dad drove us around the rich areas to see all the elaborate decorations.

[allaboutfair]

Cool link, Grins.

I hope everyone had a wonderful new year/holiday season. I know the holidays are so tough for so many as can be the weather. Stay strong through it all. It will be a great day!

[Grins]

My recovery road

In a psych hospital I learned that depression is different for each person but some things have been learned over time.
Long term or recurrent depression is a combo of deficiency of brain neurotransmitters and how I think.
How I think begins in my Beliefs; they drive my Feelings and Thinking which drive my Behavior.

hmmmm
=Had I ever wondered what was on my Belief Window, through which I saw me, you and the World?
Newp..so I began,,,
~
Antidepressants restored healthy levels of my brain neurotransmitters which are necessary to allow thoughts to normally pass from one brain cell to another.
In this sense depression is like vitamin deficiency. If lack vitamin B, then taking a supplement restores the balance in my body.

So antidepressant medication restores me to proper brain balance and function.
~
In addition I needed therapy to find out why I thought the way I did and to begin to eliminate and replace the wrong and false Beliefs driving it.

It was work
then began to be fun!

[kapupa]

Well, I'm glad the Holiday season is over, I wish the cold would go with it. I'm still doing the home care/nursing deal with Mom...weakness set in back in October(I think), those dang cigarettes grabbed hold of my addictive personality again. Not happy about that, but my Chantix is on it's way and I'm back doing the phone therapy with the VA. Maybe this time will be permanent.
Back around Christmas, Mom was struggling to stand and do dishes, I nudged her away and said, "You cooked, You don't have to clean!" I was remembering a time back during the heavy drinking between marriages...The first time I heard that.

I had moved a couple miles down a dirt road from my favorite watering hole, The Golden Spur. Frequently at closing time, I'd drag folks home so they wouldn't be driving the highways DWI. Mostly I just wanted to party more. Some folks seemed to never leave. Russell had one of them red, white, and blue Buck Owens guitars. He sort of hung around for maybe a week, he had watched me use my pressure cooker a few times as I was often feedin' a multitude of drunks.

I was outside when I heard the "BOOM!!!" from inside the kitchen...Another drifter, Duane and I ran in and found Russell rolling around the floor moaning in pain. The whole kitchen was covered ceiling to floor with a couple gallons of his special cowboy stew. The hood over the stove was all smashed on one end...Apparently, he hadn't noticed that after the cooker was up to pressure, I would remove it from the burner and run water over it in the sink till all the pressure was gone before opening it. He had stuck a knife in the handle and defeated the locking pin and just opened it up under full pressure! The lid flew up and smashed the hood, the scalding stew covered his face, arms, and chest.

We sat Russell in the recliner and put cold wet towels on his burns, gave him some aspirin and a fresh beer; me, Duane, and my dog got to cleanin' the kitchen. Russell was busy apologizing through the wet towel on his face; Duane, bless his heart, put a reassuring hand on Russell's shoulder and said, "Well, look at it this way...you cooked, you don't have to clean!"

[Grins]

Welcome Home Kapupa! :thumbsup:
We have been spared many times. It is our privilege to help others in the time given us.

How did your recovery begin?

[allaboutfair]

Well, I'm glad the Holiday season is over, I wish the cold would go with it. I'm still doing the home care/nursing deal with Mom...weakness set in back in October(I think), those dang cigarettes grabbed hold of my addictive personality again. Not happy about that, but my Chantix is on it's way and I'm back doing the phone therapy with the VA. Maybe this time will be permanent.
Back around Christmas, Mom was struggling to stand and do dishes, I nudged her away and said, "You cooked, You don't have to clean!" I was remembering a time back during the heavy drinking between marriages...The first time I heard that.

I had moved a couple miles down a dirt road from my favorite watering hole, The Golden Spur. Frequently at closing time, I'd drag folks home so they wouldn't be driving the highways DWI. Mostly I just wanted to party more. Some folks seemed to never leave. Russell had one of them red, white, and blue Buck Owens guitars. He sort of hung around for maybe a week, he had watched me use my pressure cooker a few times as I was often feedin' a multitude of drunks.

I was outside when I heard the "BOOM!!!" from inside the kitchen...Another drifter, Duane and I ran in and found Russell rolling around the floor moaning in pain. The whole kitchen was covered ceiling to floor with a couple gallons of his special cowboy stew. The hood over the stove was all smashed on one end...Apparently, he hadn't noticed that after the cooker was up to pressure, I would remove it from the burner and run water over it in the sink till all the pressure was gone before opening it. He had stuck a knife in the handle and defeated the locking pin and just opened it up under full pressure! The lid flew up and smashed the hood, the scalding stew covered his face, arms, and chest.

We sat Russell in the recliner and put cold wet towels on his burns, gave him some aspirin and a fresh beer; me, Duane, and my dog got to cleanin' the kitchen. Russell was busy apologizing through the wet towel on his face; Duane, bless his heart, put a reassuring hand on Russell's shoulder and said, "Well, look at it this way...you cooked, you don't have to clean!"



Kapupa! Welcome home, my friend! How awesome to see you! I've wondered where you are!

I guess now that story is really funny but it must not have been so funny at the time. Was Russell ultimately okay?

Your poor mom - and poor you taking care of her. You must be so worried. What's going on with her?

[kapupa]

Welcome Home Kapupa! :thumbsup:
We have been spared many times. It is our privilege to help others in the time given us.

How did your recovery begin?

My final recovery from drinking began the moment the officer asked me to step out of the car. I was doing my heal to toe in front of the windows of an open restaurant in Albuquerque. Lots of people watched me fail, cheering and laughing...clapping even. The little bit of jail I got that weekend+ and the month of home detention...the embarrassment of court, six months of weekends picking up trash with convicts on work release...the realization that I was a convict...5000 bucks in fines and fees...loss of license for a year...probation...embarrassment and loss of trust at work, having to be driven around on my jobs.

The absolute fear of going back to jail was enough for me, recovery came out of fear. Of course, it also had the side effect of returning me to my shell of solitude, isolation, ridiculously introverted. Job, home, job, home... With alcohol, I could socialize.

Shortly before and after 9/11, Another demon took me for a ride and I gladly bought the ticket. Crack sort of suddenly appeared. What a roller coaster that was! I made so many friends...

Recovery from crack began about two weeks before I lost my job and crashed my car, the January following 9/11. I came home for lunch and found my "roommate" sitting on my couch staring at the table where my huge TV had been that morning. He said, "I thought maybe you took it to work..." Shortly after that, I had no job, no savings, no car...Somehow, Moms know things. Mom showed up with a truck and a U-haul and said it's time you came home. I didn't put up much of a fight. I've been here ever since.

I have stayed recovered from alcohol since 1994, everything else, January 2002. I'm pretty sure I'm done now.
It's been long enough that I can look back and laugh about some of it.

[kapupa]

Kapupa! Welcome home, my friend! How awesome to see you! I've wondered where you are!

I guess now that story is really funny but it must not have been so funny at the time. Was Russell ultimately okay?

Your poor mom - and poor you taking care of her. You must be so worried. What's going on with her?

Russell's burns were about as bad as a sunburn, he recovered fine. I honestly don't know what eventually happened to him...I had to finally kick Duane out; he had a home, he just liked mine better.

As far as Mom, her knee is at last almost completely healed over. She has had no infections for 3 months, we are cleared for surgery. Tomorrow we go to El Paso to see the experts, figure out the plan for the next operation.

It was Noah that told me to be careful, that it was really easy to forget about time for yourself when you take care of someone else. She was right.

It's nice to be back, you guys feel so nice and cozy.

[Noah]

It was Noah that told me to be careful, that it was really easy to forget about time for yourself when you take care of someone else. She was right.

It's nice to be back, you guys feel so nice and cozy.

Yeah - easy advice to give, but I had to start taking some of my own advice after my hubby's last hospitalization.

Good to see you back, Kapupa! :wub:

[Grins]

It does take some planning I am sure Noah.
Perhaps getting help for a day each week would help. It is right to do and no guilt need be generated.

[allaboutfair]

Russell's burns were about as bad as a sunburn, he recovered fine. I honestly don't know what eventually happened to him...I had to finally kick Duane out; he had a home, he just liked mine better.

As far as Mom, her knee is at last almost completely healed over. She has had no infections for 3 months, we are cleared for surgery. Tomorrow we go to El Paso to see the experts, figure out the plan for the next operation.

It was Noah that told me to be careful, that it was really easy to forget about time for yourself when you take care of someone else. She was right.

It's nice to be back, you guys feel so nice and cozy.



Yes, it's always important to take care of yourself, Kapupa! Like on the airplane - they always tell you to put your own oxygen mask on first. You can't help someone if there's nothing of you to help.

It's good to have you back. Your story of recovery - everyone's story, really - is frightening. Life is fragile. We must embrace each day. I've always said, "There but for the grace of God"

[allaboutfair]

Yeah - easy advice to give, but I had to start taking some of my own advice after my hubby's last hospitalization.

Good to see you back, Kapupa! :wub:



It was good advice to give, Noah! Hope your hubby's okay!

[Noah]

It does take some planning I am sure Noah.
Perhaps getting help for a day each week would help. It is right to do and no guilt need be generated.

Aww...thanks, Grins. :wub:

It was insane around here after his last hospital visit. We had physical, occupational & speech therapists here every single day, except Friday. AND a nurse.

It was wearing me out having all these people in the house, even tho I'm thankful he was able to get home health!

Luckily he's been discharged from all his therapies, so life shall return to "normal".

[Grins]

Balance and Cycles

We know good health depends upon a balance of things in our lives.
My problem was always not noticing that I was getting out of balance.
Thinking all the time of the things I have done wrong and hurt I caused fed depression to the point of suicide.

I am looking for good ideas on,
How to keep a healthy balance in my life and thinking.
~
Great news Noah and best wishes for you and Mr Noah and clan~

[Grins]

12 step programs still work.
Until 75 years ago, no successful addiction program worked for so many. The proof is all around us.
I still recall the then USSR asking us for AA help; a first.

One of the unexpected benefits is a new set of friends and a safe fun place to go.
Fun place? An AA or other 12 step meeting?
Yes!
Come and see~

[Grins]

Grieving with you Aletheia.
My experience with suicidal thinking is that it is an illness. a severe depression which caused me to really believe everyone would be better off if I died.
It was a lie, a product of my brain which was not functioning properly; a chemical imbalance which I now equate with Alzheimers in that I was unable to reason and I was totally disabled mentally. I do not expect one with Alzheimers to act reasonably or with concern for family. So was I that bad even though my external appearance was different; inside I also was gone.

Worst of all, it feeds on itself and I sank deeper in despair each day. I simply was not able to function.
Please consider these things in relation to how you think of her and know that the pain is forever but there are things you can do of a positive nature.

One is to begin to write and tell of the happy memories you have and let us know what she was really like when well.
We want to get to know her and you.
We love you and all who come to share their recoveries.

[Grins]

Understood and rightly so. We are here for fellowship, listening and accepting you just as you are.
A respite too from heartache is healthy. We can smile again without feeling guilty.

[allaboutfair]

I would not call myself a survivor. I do know that I am trying hard to survive through the pain of it all.

I still cannot believe that she took her own life. How does one do that when you have two beautiful children that love you unconditionally?

I know she was hurt, but the pain she has left to those behind is just as
excruciating.

When does it start getting easier?:crying:



Aletheia, my condolences. I'm not sure who you've lost, but obviously someone very close to you.

My brother had two young children when he took his life. He suffered from depression and just felt no hope. I think he believed his children would be better off without him. I think he believed that we'd all get over it. Depression is a disease and it doesn't have rational thought attached to it sometimes. It's going on 22 years and it still hurts. It was my nephews that kept my brother going as long as he did. He loved them with all his heart. It is not about the living - it is about the disease and what they go through. It takes over.

It's different for everyone. And you're right - it hurts. It's a physical and emotional pain. It was over a year for me before I was REALLY able to laugh. I could chuckle and smile and enjoy - but the fog took over a year to begin to lift. I still cry sometimes. I still miss him. Time doesn't heal, but you do begin to learn to live with it.

[allaboutfair]

Understood and rightly so. We are here for fellowship, listening and accepting you just as you are.
A respite too from heartache is healthy. We can smile again without feeling guilty.



Ditto, my friend. We are here for you, Aletheia.

[kapupa]

Balance and Cycles

We know good health depends upon a balance of things in our lives.
My problem was always not noticing that I was getting out of balance.
Thinking all the time of the things I have done wrong and hurt I caused fed depression to the point of suicide.

I am looking for good ideas on,
How to keep a healthy balance in my life and thinking.
~
Great news Noah and best wishes for you and Mr Noah and clan~

From Mr. Miaygi, Karate Kid..."Every ting in life mussa hava balance...". Too bad he followed that up with "wax on, wax off".
I think one of worse things about remembering the past is that it is far too easy to dwell on the bad times. I'm sure it's actually an uncontrollable fail-safe built into all living things to insure preservation of the species; the first time you got burned with fire, you logged it into memory, "fire burns, don't touch".
Sometimes, I don't often share it with others, I can find a few wonderful memories mixed throughout the absolute horror of my seven year marriage to Horetta.
We had a great vacation to all things southern California once. There were some nice camping adventures with friends, we made a lot of money, we raised horses, I built lots of stuff, there was a lot of terrific sex. I had my favorite dog, a black lab named Chris. Granted, the moments of bliss can be completely shadowed by the pain of her cruelty and deceit. I usually share THAT stuff with anyone that wants to hear it, as shown here with my changing the L in her name to an H. She took my dog!!!
I wonder if trying to balance life ongoing and life past might start with first balancing the good past and the rough past, then balance that with your life. I can tell from your words here Grins, you are a terrific soul, you are so much more than any wrong you've done or hurt you caused. I would suspect that the care and love you show here for others has been a part of you your whole life.
Homework assignment: Find a copy of Forrest Gump, watch it. Funny as it is, there are so many good life lessons in there.
Now, I'm gonna build some shelves in the garage...for me, right now, creating something useful is about as good as it gets. It also keeps me busy while the Chantix finishes off the cigarette cravings.

Group hug, big love.

[Grins]

Hi Kapupa my friend :thumbsup:

When I focused on the past I continued in a downward spiral of depression until I was suicidal. My Beliefs were:
=I do not deserve to be happy
=I deserve to die
=I can never forgive others or myself

Soooooo, all my feelings, thinking and behavior led me there.

I changed my Beliefs to:
= where I can make amends, with good advice to guide me, I do it
= forgive everyone in my life for all things without conditions
= forgive myself without conditions
= ask forgiveness from my God and commit my life to Him
= think about today and the future and enjoy it to the full
= try to help others using my terrible experiences and recovery road
= love others and myself, in a healthy way
= continue to recover each day
= have fun, laugh and be silly
= be creative and do things you always wanted to
= enjoy every minute

and I do = without alcohol or cigarettes

We all can do these things.
Congrats on Stop Smoking Success
it all starts with a
decision

[WillowInFlight]

Hi Kapupa my friend :thumbsup:

When I focused on the past I continued in a downward spiral of depression until I was suicidal. My Beliefs were:
=I do not deserve to be happy
=I deserve to die
=I can never forgive others or myself

Soooooo, all my feelings, thinking and behavior led me there.

I changed my Beliefs to:
= where I can make amends, with good advice to guide me, I do it
= forgive everyone in my life for all things without conditions
= forgive myself without conditions
= ask forgiveness from my God and commit my life to Him
= think about today and the future and enjoy it to the full
= try to help others using my terrible experiences and recovery road
= love others and myself, in a healthy way
= continue to recover each day
= have fun, laugh and be silly
= be creative and do things you always wanted to
= enjoy every minute

and I do = without alcohol or cigarettes

We all can do these things.
Congrats on Stop Smoking Success
it all starts with a
decision

Great advice Grins. :wub: The key is though finding someone to trust. My problem is I forgive others before I can forgive myself. I'm a giver, I just need to learn to give to myself, and I'm getting there.

[allaboutfair]

From Mr. Miaygi, Karate Kid..."Every ting in life mussa hava balance...". Too bad he followed that up with "wax on, wax off".
I think one of worse things about remembering the past is that it is far too easy to dwell on the bad times. I'm sure it's actually an uncontrollable fail-safe built into all living things to insure preservation of the species; the first time you got burned with fire, you logged it into memory, "fire burns, don't touch".
Sometimes, I don't often share it with others, I can find a few wonderful memories mixed throughout the absolute horror of my seven year marriage to Horetta.
We had a great vacation to all things southern California once. There were some nice camping adventures with friends, we made a lot of money, we raised horses, I built lots of stuff, there was a lot of terrific sex. I had my favorite dog, a black lab named Chris. Granted, the moments of bliss can be completely shadowed by the pain of her cruelty and deceit. I usually share THAT stuff with anyone that wants to hear it, as shown here with my changing the L in her name to an H. She took my dog!!!
I wonder if trying to balance life ongoing and life past might start with first balancing the good past and the rough past, then balance that with your life. I can tell from your words here Grins, you are a terrific soul, you are so much more than any wrong you've done or hurt you caused. I would suspect that the care and love you show here for others has been a part of you your whole life.
Homework assignment: Find a copy of Forrest Gump, watch it. Funny as it is, there are so many good life lessons in there.
Now, I'm gonna build some shelves in the garage...for me, right now, creating something useful is about as good as it gets. It also keeps me busy while the Chantix finishes off the cigarette cravings.

Group hug, big love.


Hi, Kapupa! I suspect you are right about Grins. There is a basic goodness that comes out with everything he says. The deepness in caring and understanding. He is a good soul.

I also agree with you about Forest Gump. It is a wonderful movie - I've seen it many times. There are wonderful lessons in there. It's just one of those feel-good movies in spite of the sadness.

Good job with the fighting the cigarette addiction! I know it's hard - I used to smoke. Think of all the money alone you'll save. Not to mention your health!

[allaboutfair]

Great advice Grins. :wub: The key is though finding someone to trust. My problem is I forgive others before I can forgive myself. I'm a giver, I just need to learn to give to myself, and I'm getting there.



Isn't that funny, Willow about you giving to others and forgiving others but not yourself. Not funny in a "ha-ha" way, but I guess ironic is the word I'm looking for. I'm not sure. It is so true of so many that they easily forgive others and give to others but they can't turn it within.

[Pretty Leaf]

I have had the problem of forgining others not yourself. But after much therapy I found that those you may want to forgive arn't worth the time of emotional output. Those people may be toxic and you may have to let them go. I know I had to let go of a toxic best friend. I felt better. After almost 2 yrs she called and her son had died at 25. That brought us back together but with distinct boundries. I don't fall for her traps and she knows it now.

As Dr. Phil would say if you only knew how the people you worry about probally don't give you a second thought (paraphrasing)

Heal thyself.it is you that must stay true to yourself.

[Grins]

I have had the problem of forgining others not yourself. But after much therapy I found that those you may want to forgive arn't worth the time of emotional output. Those people may be toxic and you may have to let them go. I know I had to let go of a toxic best friend. I felt better. After almost 2 yrs she called and her son had died at 25. That brought us back together but with distinct boundries. I don't fall for her traps and she knows it now.

As Dr. Phil would say if you only knew how the people you worry about probally don't give you a second thought (paraphrasing)

Heal thyself.it is you that must stay true to yourself.
Pretty Leaf my friend! That is so good I had to repeat it.
Getting away from a 'toxic person' can be accomplished in many kindly ways. I chose to say, "As long as you do and say ________________, this is how I feel: ___________ So I have no choice but to terminate any and all contact with you. If some day you stop that behavior we may again have contact."

A letter may be better. Be specific as to the behavior and make it clear the subject is not open to discussion. This letter is the last contact. Period.

Good to see you again PL.
I was away a while but back now.
O Canada!! :thumbsup:

[Grins]

Great advice Grins. :wub: The key is though finding someone to trust. My problem is I forgive others before I can forgive myself. I'm a giver, I just need to learn to give to myself, and I'm getting there.
Another dear friend! Hey WillowInFlight~[one of my favorite nics] hmmmmm mebbbe I must write a poem...
Just like you, I never forgave myself; I felt and lived guilt; real and false but all guilt and it almost killed me.
Guilt led to a belief that I did not deserve to be happy and deeper down, I did not deserve to live. Those beliefs drove my thinking, feelings and behavior::> to a suicide attempt.
soooooo
I changed those wrong, unhealthy beliefs.
And my thinking, feelings and behavior changed::::> no more suicide attempt.

To forgive me:
Looking in a mirror at my own eyes I said, "I forgive you."

Then tears came
and healing
Grins

[Grins]

Isn't that funny, Willow about you giving to others and forgiving others but not yourself. Not funny in a "ha-ha" way, but I guess ironic is the word I'm looking for. I'm not sure. It is so true of so many that they easily forgive others and give to others but they can't turn it within.*happy dance for my Hero Peace!*
**Goldfish move tank away from my happy dance area**
=oh yeah?
Just because I knocked yer tank over a few times...
hmph...

Ya know, think about how often we burn out taking care of others. We do not take good care of us.
It is time to change. Balance in all things.

We do not have to be perfect. Perhaps we were told, over and over,
"You never measure up. You must try harder. You must be unselfish.
You can do better.
Why aren't you like your sister?"

Evil toxic words that crush the mind, heart ansd spirit.

God says, "You are my masterpieces!"

[Pretty Leaf]

O Canada!! [/COLOR]:thumbsup:

But will you say that during the Olympics:smile:

[Grins]

=ahem=
I will cheer for both sides~

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Pretty Leaf]

Good answer Grins...but we will see the US and Canada in the gold metal game in hockey..

[allaboutfair]

I have had the problem of forgining others not yourself. But after much therapy I found that those you may want to forgive arn't worth the time of emotional output. Those people may be toxic and you may have to let them go. I know I had to let go of a toxic best friend. I felt better. After almost 2 yrs she called and her son had died at 25. That brought us back together but with distinct boundries. I don't fall for her traps and she knows it now.

As Dr. Phil would say if you only knew how the people you worry about probally don't give you a second thought (paraphrasing)

Heal thyself.it is you that must stay true to yourself.



Probably very true, PL - just a difficult concept.

[allaboutfair]

Pretty Leaf my friend! That is so good I had to repeat it.
Getting away from a 'toxic person' can be accomplished in many kindly ways. I chose to say, "As long as you do and say ________________, this is how I feel: ___________ So I have no choice but to terminate any and all contact with you. If some day you stop that behavior we may again have contact."

A letter may be better. Be specific as to the behavior and make it clear the subject is not open to discussion. This letter is the last contact. Period.

Good to see you again PL.
I was away a while but back now.
O Canada!! :thumbsup:

Yes, I have told people that when they do "A", I feel "B" (usually hurt, worthless, degraded, etc.). LOL - sometimes I say that to my hubby! HAHA! But I do remember that we should always focus not so much on what they're doing, but how it makes us feel when they're doing it.

Glad you're back again!

[allaboutfair]

*happy dance for my Hero Peace!*
**Goldfish move tank away from my happy dance area**
=oh yeah?
Just because I knocked yer tank over a few times...
hmph...

Ya know, think about how often we burn out taking care of others. We do not take good care of us.
It is time to change. Balance in all things.

We do not have to be perfect. Perhaps we were told, over and over,
"You never measure up. You must try harder. You must be unselfish.
You can do better.
Why aren't you like your sister?"

Evil toxic words that crush the mind, heart ansd spirit.

God says, "You are my masterpieces!"



((((((((((Grins))))))))))))

[allaboutfair]

snipped to address

Good to see you again PL.
I was away a while but back now.
O Canada!! :thumbsup:

But will you say that during the Olympics:smile:



HAHA - that remains to be seen, right, PL and Grins?!

[WillowInFlight]

Pretty Leaf my friend! That is so good I had to repeat it.
Getting away from a 'toxic person' can be accomplished in many kindly ways. I chose to say, "As long as you do and say ________________, this is how I feel: ___________ So I have no choice but to terminate any and all contact with you. If some day you stop that behavior we may again have contact."

A letter may be better. Be specific as to the behavior and make it clear the subject is not open to discussion. This letter is the last contact. Period.

Good to see you again PL.
I was away a while but back now.
O Canada!! :thumbsup:

That is exactly what I did almost 5 years ago, though I did it face to face. For over 20 years my hub asked why I wouldn't allow myself to be happy? Well for the last five years I have felt like a weight has been lifted off. I have found that inner peace.
My only regret is that I didn't have the guts to break the tie a lot sooner. But I won't dwell on that. And I have no regrets doing what I did.

[Grins]

Yes, I have told people that when they do "A", I feel "B" (usually hurt, worthless, degraded, etc.). LOL - sometimes I say that to my hubby! HAHA! But I do remember that we should always focus not so much on what they're doing, but how it makes us feel when they're doing it.

Glad you're back again!You are doing what I learned in recovery and what is suggested by many therapists.
When I was criticized, I countered with all my good points instead of considering the issues being raised. So nothing was resolved and I harmed my marriage.

By avoiding 'you always' and focus on 'I feel'
you avoid as much as possible blaming and invite understanding of the others feelings.

Good for you Peace!

[allaboutfair]

That is exactly what I did almost 5 years ago, though I did it face to face. For over 20 years my hub asked why I wouldn't allow myself to be happy? Well for the last five years I have felt like a weight has been lifted off. I have found that inner peace.
My only regret is that I didn't have the guts to break the tie a lot sooner. But I won't dwell on that. And I have no regrets doing what I did.



Good job, Willow! You saved yourself and now you are happy and at peace. I know it must have been hard, but you did it!

[allaboutfair]

You are doing what I learned in recovery and what is suggested by many therapists.
When I was criticized, I countered with all my good points instead of considering the issues being raised. So nothing was resolved and I harmed my marriage.

By avoiding 'you always' and focus on 'I feel'
you avoid as much as possible blaming and invite understanding of the others feelings.

Good for you Peace!




HAHA - I'm not 100%, Grins, but I sure try to keep the blame off and focus on my feelings.

[Grins]

Andrea Bocelli
deals with the death of his Father
in his way~

As I listened, I was filled
eyes and heart
so I lift my voice
too~
_______

In Honor of Lady Liberty
and My Father

Andrea my son
playing among the grapevines
of Tuscany
singing to the plump fruit we call
Chianti Bocelli
how sweet the songs
along the rows

If we go to America
my dream is to see
Lady Liberty
sing to her my boy
sing of her love
I shall hear
near or
above

Song SOGNO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ObUoSVX1J0)

[Grins]

Andrea Bocelli's Tribute to his Father is the song Sogno.
It was his dream to see the Statue of Liberty and hear his son sing at the celebration concert.

Here is the English translation of Sogno.

DREAM

Go then, I will wait for you
The flowers in the garden will mark your absence
And rejoice the day of your return
Of my love you are so sure
So sure you can take it with you
Cupped in the hands that you raise to your face
As you still think of me
And if you need to, you can show it to the world
A world that couldn't begin to understand what lives
In an uncaring absent heart
That couldn't begin to understand what a heart can truly feel

This is where I will wait for you
Stealing imaginary kisses as time goes by
Time, time cannot erase the memories and the desire
That you cup in the hands you raise to your face
As you still think of me
Throughout your journey it will lead you back to me
For I'll still be waiting here, dreaming
Dreaming of your unknown whereabouts
Picturing the scene you'll return to, and how you'll return
I dream

This is where I will wait for you
Stealing imaginary kisses as time goes by
Dream
A noise, the wind awakes me
And you're already here

Link (http://www.ildb.info/Andrea+Bocelli-SOGNO,lid160351-a924.html)

[Grins]

One of the best things about sobriety is walking past a bar and being so glad that I do not have to go in and wonder what will happen.
And I don't.
How do you feel?

[allaboutfair]

Tough for me to answer, Grins. I've never had that same pull. I have no trouble walking past bars. I actually hate bars. They smell bad, people tend to act more and more stupid as the night goes on, and generally the smoke's so bad I can't breathe.

[Grins]

Police say most arrests happen in or as a result of bars.
Alcohol steals you; makes you a monster most times.

Challenge:
Ask your family to videotape you drunk or high. Or do it yourself in private.
Watch it and be amazed.
You will prefer you sober and so will everyone.

[Restygirl]

Ahhhhh the road is so very long......

the road getting back to where we need to be is so very much longer than the road we took to get where we are.

GRINS!!!!!!!!!
PEACE!!!!!!!

Love ya both

[RazzyisaFlab]

Ahhhhh the road is so very long......

the road getting back to where we need to be is so very much longer than the road we took to get where we are.

GRINS!!!!!!!!!
PEACE!!!!!!!

Love ya both

Where do I start? I hide things that I won't tell, I keep buried. Some dr. meet me for 5 mis.tell me I'm bi polar, lol that's so not me(if you read any of my posts). I have a dibilataling conditiong but for the the most part in a good mood. I do have meds I take. to ease the pain. Since 97 I stuck it out and still fight with SSD. I fought the pain this long I will the fight them and win, I fight the pain with meds, I fight the goverment with facts.and a lawyer. unforutunity the gov. is SOS(stuck on Stupid and helping every other country) I used to be suidide but not anymore, the damn Gov owes me to much money. I waiting and watching trial's while I wait.:mad::lol:

[Grins]

Ahhhhh the road is so very long......

the road getting back to where we need to be is so very much longer than the road we took to get where we are.

GRINS!!!!!!!!!
PEACE!!!!!!!

Love ya bothRestygirl :thumbsup:

My Friend of Friends

Together we can make it
there is hope I know
as low as I was
I knew
you
cared shared a trust
in God who must love us
a bunch
to reunite us
here
for lunch~


He always
Grins

[Grins]

Where do I start? I hide things that I won't tell, I keep buried. Some dr. meet me for 5 mis.tell me I'm bi polar, lol that's so not me(if you read any of my posts). I have a dibilataling conditiong but for the the most part in a good mood. I do have meds I take. to ease the pain. Since 97 I stuck it out and still fight with SSD. I fought the pain this long I will the fight them and win, I fight the pain with meds, I fight the goverment with facts.and a lawyer. unforutunity the gov. is SOS(stuck on Stupid and helping every other country) I used to be suidide but not anymore, the damn Gov owes me to much money. I waiting and watching trial's while I wait.:mad::lol:Welcome
RazzyisaFlab!!
SSD appeals were won by me so keep fighting.
There is healing and hope for the same reason: a fighting spirit.
Plus surrender.
How can that be?

I decided to be well and work to put into practice all I learned in recovery.

I surrendered the rest to God and asked for healing.

I have my part; God has his.
Together we can achieve anything.
Stay with us and heal with a light heart~

[Grins]

Doing My Work


What do I think about every day?
Every hour
every minute?
At night in bed?

My thoughts used to be mostly about the past and my
hurts given and suffered and my self-condemnation for
harm done to those I loved.
I could not fix it.

As long as all that dominated my thinking I was
depressed and remained depressed.
I pushed down my anger thinking who am I to be angry when I was at fault more than any other?

Recovery for me involved therapy to dig out the boils=lance the boils=of buried rage.

Write out what I always wanted to say to Mom and Dad and ________ and never did=write down what happened to me from day one=to now=that was not my fault and how I felt then and what all that caused me to Believe=which controlled what I Thought, Felt and Did for my lifetime...

then came the storm of words, tears, anger, rage long buried.....then it was over
boils lanced
painful but quite soon
I was better; poison all out; healing began
finally...

within a day
I noticed depression lifted
gone!

A New Day dawns

[Grins]

What Is On MY Belief Window
through which I see me, you and the World~

=there is something really wrong with me;
=my parents do not love me;
therefore I am unlovable;
=I can never measure up;
=I disappoint everyone;
=all the good things will go away;
=all will come crashing down;

=I do not deserve praise;
it makes me uncomfortable;

=everyone will desert me and leave me so
stay away from closeness
and total love or I will be crushed again;

=my acceptance by people depends on my achievements;
=I need to please everyone I am around so I will act like I think they will appreciate and admire;
...and on and on...]

===These Beliefs are wrong or unhealthy and must be removed and replaced by true and healthy Beliefs before Thinking and Feelings and Behavior can change!

It hurts to do it but then heals.

Sooooo I changed what I thought about all day every day
BUT
that can only happen after I change the Beliefs which caused the Thinking, Feelings and Behavior.
All my life, I had tried to change my behavior without changing my unhealthy, wrong Beliefs and it never worked.
Now I know why.
Finally~

[Grins]

New Day:

=made amends where I could
=thoughts are of today; what good can I do today; what fun can I have today?
=I cannot change the past so I will not live in it.
=plan for tomorrrow and make short lists of things I want to do=NOT=a huge list of what I have not done=
prioritize with a system=1 to 10
then rate by priority=1 now to 10 later is ok
NO lists of 100!

One small task at a time; little bites!!
:= ask for help!

Most important:
Look in a mirror and say to yourself: "I forgive you _[name]_____"
"I deserve to have fun and be happy even if things are not ok."
and
"I deserve to live a happy life and I will if I change what is wrong with my current Belief Window."

Try it~

[Restygirl]

GRINS....

Never give up what you're doing.....please.

Some of us learn slow and need a mentor such as you.



It's soooo very very hard Pete

[rainydays]

first i want to say to grins that i love all your posts and think you have an amazing and open heart.

i have posted before on this thread about growing up in an alcoholic home and being abused by my mother but this has become a new thread and so i figured i would post about my experience with suicide and how it has affected my life.

i have been having dreams and flashbacks and maybe i need to share these things so i can move on and get a good night's sleep for once.

when i was 19 i met a man who was 34. he was a very funny person which is what first attracted me to him. i stayed with him for 4 years of complete hell. he beat me numerous times, tried to gouge my eyeballls out, choked me til i passed out, kicked me down the stairs and killed my cat in front of me.

we had a child together and he beat me during pregnancy and continued after our daughter was born. when my daughter was 3 months old, he beat me badly and a neighbour finally callled the cops. he went to jail that night and so i toook the chance to get out and did. my baby and i stayed in a local shelter for abused women and their children.

long story short- he served some time in jail and when he got out he signed away his rights to our daughter and killed himself.

it has been 12 years since he died (our daughter is 13) and i stilll blame myself. no matter how much counselling i have gotten and how many people tried to tell me it wasnt my fault, i have never been able to forgive myself.

he comes to me in my sleep and torments me still to this day. some nights i am afraid to fall asleep and even if i take sleeping pills, i will still be awake all night. i feel like he is haunting me and wont ever stop.

this has been excruciating to live with and i am afraid i will never get over it and move on and be happy.

[Grins]

My friends Restygirl and rainydays and all who come along with us~
[Hi again rainydays; I am so glad to see you again. :thumbsup: ]

What bothered me all my life was that someting was bothering me all my life...

:rolleyes:

...and I did not know what it was....
then
after several 'therapists' did not help me, I was given one in a residential treatment program.
I have described above how I finally faced the people I had buried resentments against and told them off!
Therapist put them one by one in a chair facing me
empty chair
I thought at first this is ridiculous
I could never do that=you see===

I stuff feelings, I deny, I rationalize, I ignore, I withdraw, I get busy, I cement over feelings; I recall saying once, "I never get angry."

59 years worth
and
guess what
those feelings, experiences, memories, reactions, terrors, tears, fears, panics, frustrations and words I wanted to say and scream were still there
poisoning me
works never spoken because
=I was a kid
=I was afraid
=I was a people pleaser
=I was Mr Chameleon
on top of it all, a constant but deep
self-hatred

I could not hit back with words so I did it by deciding, "I will not love you any more." And I didn't.

hoooooboy
when I started on person #1 in the chair
BLLLLLLLammmmmmmBOOOOOM
out it came
yelling, swearing [rare for me], crying, telling how I felt and what was wrong with you that you did not see.....why did you put me through this....and on it went
every event every buried bomb
detonated

and the love too
the good times oh yes
all of it

one more guy=me=I looked in the mirror at my eyes=funny I never did that before=and I said the words,
"God has forgiven you and I forgive you too."

at the end
I was exhausted
but I DID IT!!!!

~see why I call it Boils Bursting?

The very next day, I was free of depression~self-hatred~panic~dreams
~resentments~refusal to forgive~rage~punishing by withdrawing love~
free of that "something wrong"
free of all the ones who hurt me
they will
never never never hurt me again

I am free
I can love you

I love me
for the first time

pretty cool

[Grins]

Meds only=some help
but
Meds and effective therapy=Finally find out the causes and conditions of my problems and now can repair my way of functioning.

[kapupa]

A little while ago, we were talkin' about how you have to allow some time for yourself...even with all this homecarin' for mom. We have an appointment in March to get her leg fixed, finally. I've found that pushing a wheelchair is the hardest part; I'm standing, she's sitting. We spent 6 hours in Walmart the other night, my legs got so tired! It's not her fault, we just don't get out much, she was enjoying being out of the house. I try not to complain to her but I find it's hard on my bladder. It's cold...for some reason a chill makes me have to go. I drive us to town, wait for a handicapped parking spot, park, get out in the rain or snow...get the wheelchair out and unfold it, help mom get in, unfurl her umbrella...I get soaked gettin' to the door. Once inside, we have to head for the pharmacy first because we are always running late. Once she lets them know we're there, I can run to the bathroom! I never danced so much in life.

Taking care of her these last several months has been a blessing for both of us. I know it's sounds like I'm just complaining here, but I am glad I was able and willing to do it for her. But...sometimes it is a test of patience. Like this morning, about an hour ago-I honestly broke my ankle! I was trying to get a quick hike in to take pictures of the dead animals my nasty neighbor is illegally dumping next to our yard. He runs his own butcher shop and brings all the hundreds of pounds of guts home with him. He likes to dump them next to our fence because he knows it bothers me. It stinks something awful! The flies! The environmental department wants the pictures, they are working on it.

So I got all the way back there, just short of a quarter mile, when I slipped into a little ditch. It wasn't too deep, but my foot turned under and I heard the distinct rip/tear of muscle and bone. I thought about trying to go the rest of the way for the picture but decided to hobble back to the house instead. Good thing I did, by the time I got back, my ankle was huge and in serious pain. I couldn't call out for mom to come help, she's still in a wheelchair or on the walker. Besides, she was in the restroom getting cleaned up for a dentist appointment.

We got a hold of my older brother, he came out and picked mom up to get her to the dentist. After the dentist, they're gonna come get me and take me 90 miles to El Paso to the VA emergency room. My usual VA hospital is in Albuquerque 4 hours away. I know at the moment, I find myself waiting for someone else, but finally, I'm gonna have some ME time...

[Pretty Leaf]

:rose:

Oh Kapupa.. what a stressful period in your life. Yes it is time to put your foot up and take a break.

Is there anyone around to take care of youo and mom? Seems like you both need some help now.

prayers for you buddy

PL

[Pretty Leaf]

=I was a people pleaser
=I was Mr Chameleon

snipped most respectively


EXACTLY the words I used when I started my therapy, that was what I was..a chameleon. Always the smile, the helpful hands to others. When staff would come into my office for guidance ect, I would listen and in my head I would be thinking.." you think you have problems"..

Until the day that I was to die, no one expected I was that far into the abyss.

My DH was at work and someone/thing told him to get home NOW. He left work and came home, saw me asked if I wanted some coffee, I said yes so he would leave the bedroom then the attempt. Had he not been home I would have expired.

I am still a chameleon but DH knows most of my "shows" by now and ususally calls me on it before I get to far. I have BP on meds, therapy and will have a major cycle when I get to "high" or very low. Life is not like a box of chocolate's, more like a little stream with rocks jetting out every few feet. Manouvering around them takes some finesse.

[Grins]

Kapupa my friend you have been a Hero to Mom and cared for her. We also need to care for ourselves as you said.The hardest thing is to find a way to do both. Here we need advice of experienced caregivers, family and wise friends.

Prayers for your recovery and Mom's and solutions to all these tough problems. Stay with us and let us know how it goes.

[Grins]

snipped most respectively


EXACTLY the words I used when I started my therapy, that was what I was..a chameleon. Always the smile, the helpful hands to others. When staff would come into my office for guidance ect, I would listen and in my head I would be thinking.." you think you have problems"..

Until the day that I was to die, no one expected I was that far into the abyss.

My DH was at work and someone/thing told him to get home NOW. He left work and came home, saw me asked if I wanted some coffee, I said yes so he would leave the bedroom then the attempt. Had he not been home I would have expired.

I am still a chameleon but DH knows most of my "shows" by now and ususally calls me on it before I get to far. I have BP on meds, therapy and will have a major cycle when I get to "high" or very low. Life is not like a box of chocolate's, more like a little stream with rocks jetting out every few feet. Manouvering around them takes some finesse.Pretty Leaf I am so glad you lived. We love you and care about you and have for a long time.
I think God saved your life as he did mine. We are here to enjoy the gift and give back.
That you are doing and have been...to me and many others.
Wounded healers understand....

[Grins]

My Recovery Journey
[Excuse me if I repeat; it is a defect of character,]
:hammer:
ahhhh I feel better~
----but wait....
_____

Am I Too Hard On Me?

Many of us set the bar at an impossible height so we are sure to fail. We are too hard on us! Would we demand that much of others? No.

It all goes back to what is on your Belief Window and mine.
If I believe I will never measure up, that is how I will Think>Feel and>Behave.
Sooooooo
I change that wrong Belief to:
"I will always do my best. That is all that is asked of me. That is all that I ask of myself."
=====whew
,,,,,,,, now
I go look for other wrong and unhealthy Beliefs and change them.
It is really fun = look at my Unsatisfactory Behavior and trace it back to a bad Belief~~change it and
Satisfactory Behavior will follow~~

[Grins]

Example:
My Belief was
=my achievements will get me love and acceptance.
Wrong!
As a result of that Belief I was devastated by any criticism no matter what. Criticism took my love and acceptance as it stole my achievements, my only hope...

Sooooo
I changed my wrong belief to:
Love and acceptance depends upon the kind of man I am; the content of my character and my love and respect of others and myself.

Now I can take criticism and benefit from it.
My Belief>Feelings>Thinking>Behavior.
No change in Feelings>Thinking>Behavior until I change Beliefs.

I visualize a big Window on my shoulders. All my Beliefs are written on it. I see you, me and the world through my Window. All my life it stays the same until I change,,,

"We see the world, not as it is, but as we are."

[Grins]

The Belief Window is credited to Hyrum W. Smith, of Franklin Planner fame.

It can be seen in his soft cover book "What Matters Most"
especially in Chapter 10.
Take a peek.

[Grins]

first i want to say to grins that i love all your posts and think you have an amazing and open heart.

i have posted before on this thread about growing up in an alcoholic home and being abused by my mother but this has become a new thread and so i figured i would post about my experience with suicide and how it has affected my life.

i have been having dreams and flashbacks and maybe i need to share these things so i can move on and get a good night's sleep for once.

when i was 19 i met a man who was 34. he was a very funny person which is what first attracted me to him. i stayed with him for 4 years of complete hell. he beat me numerous times, tried to gouge my eyeballls out, choked me til i passed out, kicked me down the stairs and killed my cat in front of me.

we had a child together and he beat me during pregnancy and continued after our daughter was born. when my daughter was 3 months old, he beat me badly and a neighbour finally callled the cops. he went to jail that night and so i toook the chance to get out and did. my baby and i stayed in a local shelter for abused women and their children.

long story short- he served some time in jail and when he got out he signed away his rights to our daughter and killed himself.

it has been 12 years since he died (our daughter is 13) and i stilll blame myself. no matter how much counselling i have gotten and how many people tried to tell me it wasnt my fault, i have never been able to forgive myself.

he comes to me in my sleep and torments me still to this day. some nights i am afraid to fall asleep and even if i take sleeping pills, i will still be awake all night. i feel like he is haunting me and wont ever stop.

this has been excruciating to live with and i am afraid i will never get over it and move on and be happy.I grieve with you, Rainydays. Your pain is real and ongoing.
Did talking about it help at all?

I know there is help and hope for you. It begins with changing what you believe as I have done and posted above.

Never did I know that I could change how I felt and thought. I was stuck with it I assumed.
Not so!
If you decide and believe:
=he is dead and cannot harm me any more
[unless I let him]
=God has him now and will inflict upon him what vengeance he deserves.

=I decide now to forgive myself
=I am forgiven
=...I am free
then
Your Thinking>Feelings>and Behavior will change.

It takes time. Say these things to yourself every day.
You will see a change.
You will free yourself.

[Restygirl]

.....it's been 3 years this month that my niece...at 27 yrs old opted to indirectly end her life. My twin is still destroyed over it, though she's moved on somewhat.....she still suffers from the "what if" and "if only" nightmares in the day time. It's so hard to hear and see this in one so close. It did bring us all together as a family after a 10 plus year estrangement......but Id give it all back to not have my twin hurting in this manner.

I dont think a suicide like this can ever be truly dealt with. The pain never goes away......there is never a "closure"...you never get over it....you just get use to it.

My prayers go out to allllllll who suffer this.....the backlash is unending. I wish for alllll who know this pain some peace....some comfort somewhere.

[Grins]

.....it's been 3 years this month that my niece...at 27 yrs old opted to indirectly end her life. My twin is still destroyed over it, though she's moved on somewhat.....she still suffers from the "what if" and "if only" nightmares in the day time. It's so hard to hear and see this in one so close. It did bring us all together as a family after a 10 plus year estrangement......but Id give it all back to not have my twin hurting in this manner.

I dont think a suicide like this can ever be truly dealt with. The pain never goes away......there is never a "closure"...you never get over it....you just get use to it.

My prayers go out to allllllll who suffer this.....the backlash is unending. I wish for alllll who know this pain some peace....some comfort somewhere.Grieving with you, I offer an ear and shoulder.
Loss is bad enough but guilt may be worse.

All I will say is what I experienced in 1996.
I planned my suicide very carefully. Suffering from depression for a long time, my mental faculties were not functioning normally. Everything I considered, I manipulated into confirmation of suicide being best.
Family would be better off.
My pain would stop and I would be better off.
I engineered my eviction so I was 'homeless.'

When police stopped my car and took it for lack of inspection sticker, I thought, "This is final confirmation. Now I have only the clothes I am wearing. God is telling me it is ok to die,"

You see?
No one could have stopped me; no one was at fault; no one did anything to me that caused my death.
I wanted no one to feel guilty over my death. It was best for me!=or so I thought=

This is the working of a mind suffering a fatal illness. This I know. I lived it. I shake my head now that I am healing but that was I back then.

Only a miracle saved me that September 23rd, 1996.
I wish your niece had one too, but God knows her illness and how it robs us of true free will. The illness kills us; we have no free will when depression overwhelms us.

I hope every survivor takes a moment to stand in my shoes that day and try to get a new understanding of the sufferer.

[Poochie Pie]

Grieving with you, I offer an ear and shoulder.
Loss is bad enough but guilt may be worse.

All I will say is what I experienced in 1996.
I planned my suicide very carefully. Suffering from depression for a long time, my mental faculties were not functioning normally. Everything I considered, I manipulated into confirmation of suicide being best.
Family would be better off.
My pain would stop and I would be better off.
I engineered my eviction so I was 'homeless.'

When police stopped my car and took it for lack of inspection sticker, I thought, "This is final confirmation. Now I have only the clothes I am wearing. God is telling me it is ok to die,"

You see?
No one could have stopped me; no one was at fault; no one did anything to me that caused my death.
I wanted no one to feel guilty over my death. It was best for me!=or so I thought=

This is the working of a mind suffering a fatal illness. This I know. I lived it. I shake my head now that I am healing but that was I back then.

Only a miracle saved me that September 23rd, 1996.
I wish your niece had one too, but God knows her illness and how it robs us of true free will. The illness kills us; we have no free will when depression overwhelms us.

I hope every survivor takes a moment to stand in my shoes that day and try to get a new understanding of the sufferer. Grins...!! my Friend.. Everytime I read your story, I just cringe at the thought that this World nearly lost you.... Even though I have never met you, i am so grateful every day that you are still out there..!! Giving us hope... and sharing your struggles with us.... YOU, are magnificent... :wub:

Poochie

[Restygirl]

Poochie.......I couldnt agree more.

GRINS.......friend of friends....you know I love ya big guy.

never change.......never.....well......you know what I mean.

And...I just may need that shoulder big guy......Im working really hard though.

[rainydays]

My friends Restygirl and rainydays and all who come along with us~
[Hi again rainydays; I am so glad to see you again. :thumbsup: ]

What bothered me all my life was that someting was bothering me all my life...

:rolleyes:

...and I did not know what it was....
then
after several 'therapists' did not help me, I was given one in a residential treatment program.
I have described above how I finally faced the people I had buried resentments against and told them off!
Therapist put them one by one in a chair facing me
empty chair
I thought at first this is ridiculous
I could never do that=you see===

I stuff feelings, I deny, I rationalize, I ignore, I withdraw, I get busy, I cement over feelings; I recall saying once, "I never get angry."

59 years worth
and
guess what
those feelings, experiences, memories, reactions, terrors, tears, fears, panics, frustrations and words I wanted to say and scream were still there
poisoning me
works never spoken because
=I was a kid
=I was afraid
=I was a people pleaser
=I was Mr Chameleon
on top of it all, a constant but deep
self-hatred

I could not hit back with words so I did it by deciding, "I will not love you any more." And I didn't.

hoooooboy
when I started on person #1 in the chair
BLLLLLLLammmmmmmBOOOOOM
out it came
yelling, swearing [rare for me], crying, telling how I felt and what was wrong with you that you did not see.....why did you put me through this....and on it went
every event every buried bomb
detonated

and the love too
the good times oh yes
all of it

one more guy=me=I looked in the mirror at my eyes=funny I never did that before=and I said the words,
"God has forgiven you and I forgive you too."

at the end
I was exhausted
but I DID IT!!!!

~see why I call it Boils Bursting?

The very next day, I was free of depression~self-hatred~panic~dreams
~resentments~refusal to forgive~rage~punishing by withdrawing love~
free of that "something wrong"
free of all the ones who hurt me
they will
never never never hurt me again

I am free
I can love you

I love me
for the first time

pretty cool

thanks grins!

i have been in counselling for years for all the traumas in my life. when my daughters father committed suicide i was devestated and attended counselling which helped me deal with the initial shock and grief but the underlying feelings of guilt have never left me.

since his suicide my relationship with my alcoholic abusive mother had to come to a head and i needed to sever that relationship with her. i am now 35 years old and still am traumatized by my upbringing and lack of parenting and never feeling loved. this feeling of not being worthy of love has carried into my adulthood and has affected all my relationships with men too.

for 2 years now i have been attending sexual assualt counselling as well as other individual and group counselling. i also take meds to get through the day and to sleep at night.

i feel hopeless that no matter how much counselling i have gotten and no matter how much i have learned over the years, i cannot shake these issues within myself.

i have not done any empty chair work and maybe that is the key that i am missing but i have written letters at the request of my counsellor. i found that writing the letters and never sending them helped to an extent.

i could go on and on about all the horrible things i have gone through and witnessed but i wont bother at this point. i am still not sleeping at night. i get maybe 2 or 3 hours sleep then i wake up sweating.

i hope one day i can find what you have found and i can move on and be happy. i can only be thankful at this point that i have raised my girls differently than the way i was raised and they are happy children who have never been abused.

thanks for your support grins.

[rainydays]

My friends Restygirl and rainydays and all who come along with us~
[Hi again rainydays; I am so glad to see you again. :thumbsup: ]

What bothered me all my life was that someting was bothering me all my life...

:rolleyes:

...and I did not know what it was....
then
after several 'therapists' did not help me, I was given one in a residential treatment program.
I have described above how I finally faced the people I had buried resentments against and told them off!
Therapist put them one by one in a chair facing me
empty chair
I thought at first this is ridiculous
I could never do that=you see===

I stuff feelings, I deny, I rationalize, I ignore, I withdraw, I get busy, I cement over feelings; I recall saying once, "I never get angry."

59 years worth
and
guess what
those feelings, experiences, memories, reactions, terrors, tears, fears, panics, frustrations and words I wanted to say and scream were still there
poisoning me
works never spoken because
=I was a kid
=I was afraid
=I was a people pleaser
=I was Mr Chameleon
on top of it all, a constant but deep
self-hatred

I could not hit back with words so I did it by deciding, "I will not love you any more." And I didn't.

hoooooboy
when I started on person #1 in the chair
BLLLLLLLammmmmmmBOOOOOM
out it came
yelling, swearing [rare for me], crying, telling how I felt and what was wrong with you that you did not see.....why did you put me through this....and on it went
every event every buried bomb
detonated

and the love too
the good times oh yes
all of it

one more guy=me=I looked in the mirror at my eyes=funny I never did that before=and I said the words,
"God has forgiven you and I forgive you too."

at the end
I was exhausted
but I DID IT!!!!

~see why I call it Boils Bursting?

The very next day, I was free of depression~self-hatred~panic~dreams
~resentments~refusal to forgive~rage~punishing by withdrawing love~
free of that "something wrong"
free of all the ones who hurt me
they will
never never never hurt me again

I am free
I can love you

I love me
for the first time

pretty cool

thanks grins!

i have been in counselling for years for all the traumas in my life. when my daughters father committed suicide i was devestated and attended counselling which helped me deal with the initial shock and grief but the underlying feelings of guilt have never left me.

since his suicide my relationship with my alcoholic abusive mother had to come to a head and i needed to sever that relationship with her. i am now 35 years old and still am traumatized by my upbringing and lack of parenting and never feeling loved. this feeling of not being worthy of love has carried into my adulthood and has affected all my relationships with men too.

for 2 years now i have been attending sexual assualt counselling as well as other individual and group counselling. i also take meds to get through the day and to sleep at night.

i feel hopeless that no matter how much counselling i have gotten and no matter how much i have learned over the years, i cannot shake these issues within myself.

i have not done any empty chair work and maybe that is the key that i am missing but i have written letters at the request of my counsellor. i found that writing the letters and never sending them helped to an extent.

i could go on and on about all the horrible things i have gone through and witnessed but i wont bother at this point. i am still not sleeping at night. i get maybe 2 or 3 hours sleep then i wake up sweating.

i hope one day i can find what you have found and i can move on and be happy. i can only be thankful at this point that i have raised my girls differently than the way i was raised and they are happy children who have never been abused.

thanks for your support grins and all others on this board.

[Grins]

Grins...!! my Friend.. Everytime I read your story, I just cringe at the thought that this World nearly lost you.... Even though I have never met you, i am so grateful every day that you are still out there..!! Giving us hope... and sharing your struggles with us.... YOU, are magnificent... :wub:

PoochiePoochie!!!! :wub: You have been a faithful friend and a key part of my recovery over time. Your support has always been filled with specific encouragement and fun comments which lift my spirits. I appreciate you.

[Grins]

Poochie.......I couldnt agree more.

GRINS.......friend of friends....you know I love ya big guy.

never change.......never.....well......you know what I mean.

And...I just may need that shoulder big guy......Im working really hard though.We go back many years Restygirl and bonds are strong; arms are strong; hope is strong; love is eternal~

I am here for you
always
you know the ways

[Grins]

Rainydays you get a big hug right off

*crunch*
ooops :hat:
I did all those things but the key for me was
[B]to say it; to say what I felt back then and ever since; to say how you hurt me; to say how afraid I was; to say how much I cried; to say how angry I was and am; to say I was not able to hit back but now it is time you heard the truth.....

Only then did it come pouring out.
I had stuffed it all for years.
My hunch is you did too and it has to come OUT!
The empty chair really works but do it with a qualified therapist for your protection.

[Grins]

Eric Clapton
did it! And is doing it...helping others,,,

From his web site:

"...After conquering his heroin addiction in the early 70s, Eric replaced it with an addiction to alcohol. Throughout the remainder of the decade and into the 1980s, his life and work suffered due to his alcoholism. In January 1982, Eric entered the Hazelden Foundation, a rehabilitation facility in the United States. He did backslide but entered rehab a second time a few years later. He has been sober since 1987 through the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. Since that time, Eric has been committed to working with others who suffer from addictions to drugs and alcohol.

In February 1998, Eric announced the opening of Crossroads Centre, a rehabilitation facility for drug and alcohol abuse on the island of Antigua. ,,,"

http://www.ericclapton.com/eric-clapton-biography?page=0%2C3

[CHITCHAT]

I am waiting to hear from my sister-in-law if my brother is going to make it through withdrawls...the hospital doesnt think he will. He fell monday and broke his hip. he has to go thru withdrawing from alcohol before they can operate. they thinks hes done so much damage to his body that he wont make it. We have all tried to talk to him for yrs, now it maybe to late...I asked my hubby to stop his drinking but hes in denile. he says he only drinks beer so he's okay...My bro always drank hard liquir...so sad. such a waste of a life...it makes me soooo sad.

[rainydays]

I am waiting to hear from my sister-in-law if my brother is going to make it through withdrawls...the hospital doesnt think he will. He fell monday and broke his hip. he has to go thru withdrawing from alcohol before they can operate. they thinks hes done so much damage to his body that he wont make it. We have all tried to talk to him for yrs, now it maybe to late...I asked my hubby to stop his drinking but hes in denile. he says he only drinks beer so he's okay...My bro always drank hard liquir...so sad. such a waste of a life...it makes me soooo sad.

chitchat, i hope things work out ok for your brother. please know that you and your family will be in my thoughts and prayers. alcoholism is such a horrible disease and i have watched my mom suffer with it since i was a kid. my step-father died of cirrosis of the liver from drinking. it was the sickest thing i ever had to watch.

please know you are not alone in dealing with this illness of alcoholism.

:rose:

[CHITCHAT]

thanks for the kind words rainy...Both my brothers are alcoholics..I have seen it turn young men into very, very old men...both are sick, but this is my youngest bro. and it came on so quick....even at 58 I think of him as the baby..he is so immature, and just never grew up. my heart has always gone out to him, but I have really pulled away from him these last 2 or 3 yrs...as talking to him made less and less sence. now I keep thinking I just should have keep trying. but I am so busy trying to raise a 15 yr old grandson and my own husband that is an alcoholic...hes not quite at bad as my bros but hes also a diabetic and he looks awful. He is 7yrs younger than I and some people think hes my father...bad eyes and always bumping into things...Im the only one who works. so I have a plate full. but I hate to see my little brother suffer so. I wish I could make hubby see. He just says " ya your brother drank a lot..hard liquor..no beer like me" so he thinks hes safe..hes in de-nyle....they're good at that.

[Pretty Leaf]

Alcoholism took my father's life. He drove drunk...in the 70's when driinking and driving was not unacceptable. People did it. No Designated Drivers, go to a party drink then drive home. Wasn't a blimp on the radar.

Well it was a sigh when he came home without an accident then the nights of hell started. Long story as most who live with alcoholics know all to well.

When I was told he died, of a fall down the stairs at home while drunk the 1st thing that came into my head was "thank God"...our hell on earth was over, and I was Daddy's little girl. I still think to this day 30yrs later how bad it was that that was my 1st thought.

[rainydays]

thanks for the kind words rainy...Both my brothers are alcoholics..I have seen it turn young men into very, very old men...both are sick, but this is my youngest bro. and it came on so quick....even at 58 I think of him as the baby..he is so immature, and just never grew up. my heart has always gone out to him, but I have really pulled away from him these last 2 or 3 yrs...as talking to him made less and less sence. now I keep thinking I just should have keep trying. but I am so busy trying to raise a 15 yr old grandson and my own husband that is an alcoholic...hes not quite at bad as my bros but hes also a diabetic and he looks awful. He is 7yrs younger than I and some people think hes my father...bad eyes and always bumping into things...Im the only one who works. so I have a plate full. but I hate to see my little brother suffer so. I wish I could make hubby see. He just says " ya your brother drank a lot..hard liquor..no beer like me" so he thinks hes safe..hes in de-nyle....they're good at that.

oh the denile runs so deep. my mom always drank beer or wine and she is a horrible drunk. alcohol is alcohol i think. moo

[Grins]

It took a long time to forgive me;
I didn't know that I needed to~

Missing Love

Loving you is easy
him and her as well
love my country all
my family tree
if only I could love
me

years and years of guilt
silt from past floods
angers buried turn against
me puzzling I wondered
why I do not even like
me

Guilt guilt poisons love
kills self-respect I expect
to die of guilt almost did
then

Hands lifted me gave rest
taught me real guilt false guilt
quilt of sins hurts done sadness
what now what now confess
be honest ask forgiveness make
amends do what you can
be satisfied with having done all

now
forgive myself forgive
me
so I can finally be free to
love
me~

Love, Grins

[Restygirl]

ahhhhhh tis a blessing when once we are learned to love ourselves. Sometimes it's hard to even realize that we dont.

Love ya big guy

[Grins]

Hiya Resty,
Guilt has ruined many lives; real guilt and false guilt were bases for my hidden self-hatred.

Is it good for me to ask me:
am I feeling guilty about anything?
A person's death?
A failed marriage?
A lost job?

Failure to be a family clown and stop arguments?
My Dad's drinking to excess?
...
Which are real and which false?
What effect does guilt have on me now?

[CHITCHAT]

went to see my bro in hospital...wow. he didnt look so good...I tried to talk to him but I didnt get much feed back. I sure hope he comes out of this. and can stay sober...but what are the chances? i think slim.

[allaboutfair]

Police say most arrests happen in or as a result of bars.
Alcohol steals you; makes you a monster most times.

Challenge:
Ask your family to videotape you drunk or high. Or do it yourself in private.
Watch it and be amazed.
You will prefer you sober and so will everyone.


You betcha, Grins! I went to Vegas with my husband last week and we went to see a show. We were there with an Aussie couple. As we climbed into our row, the man said something to the couple with us and I only caught his wife shushing him. He kept loudly saying that he meant it as a compliment. I'm not sure what was said and forgot to ask at the end of the performance. During the performance, the man was loud and obnoxious, yelling and cheering loudly so that my ear hurt. He was drinking (it's pretty free there in Vegas). They left early - there was a joke they didn't care for. I was SOOOO glad! I wish he could have been videotaped and watched THAT later!

[allaboutfair]

Ahhhhh the road is so very long......

the road getting back to where we need to be is so very much longer than the road we took to get where we are.

GRINS!!!!!!!!!
PEACE!!!!!!!

Love ya both


Hiya, RestyGirl!!! Love ya back!

[allaboutfair]

Where do I start? I hide things that I won't tell, I keep buried. Some dr. meet me for 5 mis.tell me I'm bi polar, lol that's so not me(if you read any of my posts). I have a dibilataling conditiong but for the the most part in a good mood. I do have meds I take. to ease the pain. Since 97 I stuck it out and still fight with SSD. I fought the pain this long I will the fight them and win, I fight the pain with meds, I fight the goverment with facts.and a lawyer. unforutunity the gov. is SOS(stuck on Stupid and helping every other country) I used to be suidide but not anymore, the damn Gov owes me to much money. I waiting and watching trial's while I wait.:mad::lol:


Wishing you the best, Razzy.

[allaboutfair]

GRINS....

Never give up what you're doing.....please.

Some of us learn slow and need a mentor such as you.



It's soooo very very hard

Grins is definitely a wonderful mentor, Resty! The best!

[allaboutfair]

first i want to say to grins that i love all your posts and think you have an amazing and open heart.

i have posted before on this thread about growing up in an alcoholic home and being abused by my mother but this has become a new thread and so i figured i would post about my experience with suicide and how it has affected my life.

i have been having dreams and flashbacks and maybe i need to share these things so i can move on and get a good night's sleep for once.

when i was 19 i met a man who was 34. he was a very funny person which is what first attracted me to him. i stayed with him for 4 years of complete hell. he beat me numerous times, tried to gouge my eyeballls out, choked me til i passed out, kicked me down the stairs and killed my cat in front of me.

we had a child together and he beat me during pregnancy and continued after our daughter was born. when my daughter was 3 months old, he beat me badly and a neighbour finally callled the cops. he went to jail that night and so i toook the chance to get out and did. my baby and i stayed in a local shelter for abused women and their children.

long story short- he served some time in jail and when he got out he signed away his rights to our daughter and killed himself.

it has been 12 years since he died (our daughter is 13) and i stilll blame myself. no matter how much counselling i have gotten and how many people tried to tell me it wasnt my fault, i have never been able to forgive myself.

he comes to me in my sleep and torments me still to this day. some nights i am afraid to fall asleep and even if i take sleeping pills, i will still be awake all night. i feel like he is haunting me and wont ever stop.

this has been excruciating to live with and i am afraid i will never get over it and move on and be happy.


Rainydays, my first reaction was thank goodness he took his own life because he may have taken yours and/or your daughter's otherwise. I sorry he couldn't get what help he needed, but the important thing is that you got out AND, just as importantly, you got your daughter out. How wonderful that she did not grow up in an atmosphere of abuse.

So, yes, I'm sorry for the demons your husband faced. They were NOT your demons. I would say ask out loud for him to stop and to leave you alone, but I believe it is something you need to let go of. Do you feel, somehow, that you are not deserving of a good life?

[allaboutfair]

*snipped*



I am free
I can love you

I love me
for the first time

pretty cool



Oh, perfect, Grins! And I love YOU!

[allaboutfair]

A little while ago, we were talkin' about how you have to allow some time for yourself...even with all this homecarin' for mom. We have an appointment in March to get her leg fixed, finally. I've found that pushing a wheelchair is the hardest part; I'm standing, she's sitting. We spent 6 hours in Walmart the other night, my legs got so tired! It's not her fault, we just don't get out much, she was enjoying being out of the house. I try not to complain to her but I find it's hard on my bladder. It's cold...for some reason a chill makes me have to go. I drive us to town, wait for a handicapped parking spot, park, get out in the rain or snow...get the wheelchair out and unfold it, help mom get in, unfurl her umbrella...I get soaked gettin' to the door. Once inside, we have to head for the pharmacy first because we are always running late. Once she lets them know we're there, I can run to the bathroom! I never danced so much in life.

Taking care of her these last several months has been a blessing for both of us. I know it's sounds like I'm just complaining here, but I am glad I was able and willing to do it for her. But...sometimes it is a test of patience. Like this morning, about an hour ago-I honestly broke my ankle! I was trying to get a quick hike in to take pictures of the dead animals my nasty neighbor is illegally dumping next to our yard. He runs his own butcher shop and brings all the hundreds of pounds of guts home with him. He likes to dump them next to our fence because he knows it bothers me. It stinks something awful! The flies! The environmental department wants the pictures, they are working on it.

So I got all the way back there, just short of a quarter mile, when I slipped into a little ditch. It wasn't too deep, but my foot turned under and I heard the distinct rip/tear of muscle and bone. I thought about trying to go the rest of the way for the picture but decided to hobble back to the house instead. Good thing I did, by the time I got back, my ankle was huge and in serious pain. I couldn't call out for mom to come help, she's still in a wheelchair or on the walker. Besides, she was in the restroom getting cleaned up for a dentist appointment.

We got a hold of my older brother, he came out and picked mom up to get her to the dentist. After the dentist, they're gonna come get me and take me 90 miles to El Paso to the VA emergency room. My usual VA hospital is in Albuquerque 4 hours away. I know at the moment, I find myself waiting for someone else, but finally, I'm gonna have some ME time...



Oh Kapupa! (((((((((((Hugs))))))))))) I am so, so sorry! That's awful! And not quite the way to get any "me" time. What was the result of all of that? How bad is the break? How long will you be casted? Did your brother take any pictures for you, perchance?

[allaboutfair]

:rose:

Oh Kapupa.. what a stressful period in your life. Yes it is time to put your foot up and take a break.

Is there anyone around to take care of youo and mom? Seems like you both need some help now.

prayers for you buddy

PL



HAHA - he DID take a break! Just not the proper type of break!

[allaboutfair]

snipped most respectively


EXACTLY the words I used when I started my therapy, that was what I was..a chameleon. Always the smile, the helpful hands to others. When staff would come into my office for guidance ect, I would listen and in my head I would be thinking.." you think you have problems"..

Until the day that I was to die, no one expected I was that far into the abyss.

My DH was at work and someone/thing told him to get home NOW. He left work and came home, saw me asked if I wanted some coffee, I said yes so he would leave the bedroom then the attempt. Had he not been home I would have expired.

I am still a chameleon but DH knows most of my "shows" by now and ususally calls me on it before I get to far. I have BP on meds, therapy and will have a major cycle when I get to "high" or very low. Life is not like a box of chocolate's, more like a little stream with rocks jetting out every few feet. Manouvering around them takes some finesse.



And you do maneuver with much finesse, PL! You're a winner!

[allaboutfair]

.....it's been 3 years this month that my niece...at 27 yrs old opted to indirectly end her life. My twin is still destroyed over it, though she's moved on somewhat.....she still suffers from the "what if" and "if only" nightmares in the day time. It's so hard to hear and see this in one so close. It did bring us all together as a family after a 10 plus year estrangement......but Id give it all back to not have my twin hurting in this manner.

I dont think a suicide like this can ever be truly dealt with. The pain never goes away......there is never a "closure"...you never get over it....you just get use to it.

My prayers go out to allllllll who suffer this.....the backlash is unending. I wish for alllll who know this pain some peace....some comfort somewhere.



Resty, my dear friend, it is hard to believe it has been three years already. Seems like a much shorter time. I know you grieve and I send you love and hugs.

[allaboutfair]

thanks grins!

i have been in counselling for years for all the traumas in my life. when my daughters father committed suicide i was devestated and attended counselling which helped me deal with the initial shock and grief but the underlying feelings of guilt have never left me.

since his suicide my relationship with my alcoholic abusive mother had to come to a head and i needed to sever that relationship with her. i am now 35 years old and still am traumatized by my upbringing and lack of parenting and never feeling loved. this feeling of not being worthy of love has carried into my adulthood and has affected all my relationships with men too.

for 2 years now i have been attending sexual assualt counselling as well as other individual and group counselling. i also take meds to get through the day and to sleep at night.

i feel hopeless that no matter how much counselling i have gotten and no matter how much i have learned over the years, i cannot shake these issues within myself.

i have not done any empty chair work and maybe that is the key that i am missing but i have written letters at the request of my counsellor. i found that writing the letters and never sending them helped to an extent.

i could go on and on about all the horrible things i have gone through and witnessed but i wont bother at this point. i am still not sleeping at night. i get maybe 2 or 3 hours sleep then i wake up sweating.

i hope one day i can find what you have found and i can move on and be happy. i can only be thankful at this point that i have raised my girls differently than the way i was raised and they are happy children who have never been abused.

thanks for your support grins.



Rainy, I believe the big problem comes froms forgiving yourself and loving yourself. Perhaps you were brought up to be at fault as, otherwise, your abusive mother may have had to credit herself for being abusive. It was easier for her to believe you deserved it rather than that she just sucks. These are my beliefs. You are to be commended for getting your daughter out of the abusive situation you both were in and also in getting yourself out. It sounds like you've made great strides in removing yourself from these toxic relationships - your mother and your ex. You did not deserve the abuse from your mother or from your ex. Perhaps if you looked in the mirror each morning and say one good thing about yourself each day. Something different each day. You deserve happiness, Rainy.

[allaboutfair]

I am waiting to hear from my sister-in-law if my brother is going to make it through withdrawls...the hospital doesnt think he will. He fell monday and broke his hip. he has to go thru withdrawing from alcohol before they can operate. they thinks hes done so much damage to his body that he wont make it. We have all tried to talk to him for yrs, now it maybe to late...I asked my hubby to stop his drinking but hes in denile. he says he only drinks beer so he's okay...My bro always drank hard liquir...so sad. such a waste of a life...it makes me soooo sad.



Aww, Chitchat, I'm sorry for what you're dealing with. I hope your brother will recover and stay sober. As for your hubby - alcohol is alcohol. Does it affect his personality?

[allaboutfair]

thanks for the kind words rainy...Both my brothers are alcoholics..I have seen it turn young men into very, very old men...both are sick, but this is my youngest bro. and it came on so quick....even at 58 I think of him as the baby..he is so immature, and just never grew up. my heart has always gone out to him, but I have really pulled away from him these last 2 or 3 yrs...as talking to him made less and less sence. now I keep thinking I just should have keep trying. but I am so busy trying to raise a 15 yr old grandson and my own husband that is an alcoholic...hes not quite at bad as my bros but hes also a diabetic and he looks awful. He is 7yrs younger than I and some people think hes my father...bad eyes and always bumping into things...Im the only one who works. so I have a plate full. but I hate to see my little brother suffer so. I wish I could make hubby see. He just says " ya your brother drank a lot..hard liquor..no beer like me" so he thinks hes safe..hes in de-nyle....they're good at that.



Chitchat, put YOUR health first. It sounds like your brother's alcoholism was toxic to you and you had to pull away. That was the right thing for you. Your husband doesn't work? Is that because of his drinking or is he retired? How does all of this alcoholism affect your 15 year old grandson?

[allaboutfair]

Alcoholism took my father's life. He drove drunk...in the 70's when driinking and driving was not unacceptable. People did it. No Designated Drivers, go to a party drink then drive home. Wasn't a blimp on the radar.

Well it was a sigh when he came home without an accident then the nights of hell started. Long story as most who live with alcoholics know all to well.

When I was told he died, of a fall down the stairs at home while drunk the 1st thing that came into my head was "thank God"...our hell on earth was over, and I was Daddy's little girl. I still think to this day 30yrs later how bad it was that that was my 1st thought.


You can love someone but hate the situation, PL. You were glad that the situation had ended. I'm sure you would have taken a sober dad over the hell.

[allaboutfair]

went to see my bro in hospital...wow. he didnt look so good...I tried to talk to him but I didnt get much feed back. I sure hope he comes out of this. and can stay sober...but what are the chances? i think slim.



Not so slim if he gets some help. But it is around him. This may be his wake-up call. Still praying for your brother, Chitchat.




:sad:

[CHITCHAT]

thank you. I am also praying and hopefull.

[Grins]

thank you. I am also praying and hopefull.There is hope CHITCHAT. I was a 'hopeless' alcoholic, 3 relapses, homeless and suicidal.

I got help and have been sober 13 years plus~and I know prayer helped me.
So I pray now and ongoing for your brother to recover and really recover; and suggest AA meetings if and when he is able.
You can take him to an 'open AA meeting."
These are listed in AA Meeting Directory available from AA; look in the phone book.

[Restygirl]

as long as there is life.....there is hope. Never give up...even an Alcoholic or drug addict is a child OF THE MOST HIGH GOD and thereby worth saving. The ol saying hate the sin not the sinner.....

Remember......it is written....

"Where two or more are gathered.............." and surely there are more than two who can agree a life is worth saving.

.......in Jesus name


Im babbling.....I'll go now


lyabg

[allaboutfair]

thank you. I am also praying and hopefull.



Please keep us posted, Chitchat!

[allaboutfair]

as long as there is life.....there is hope. Never give up...even an Alcoholic or drug addict is a child OF THE MOST HIGH GOD and thereby worth saving. The ol saying hate the sin not the sinner.....

Remember......it is written....

"Where two or more are gathered.............." and surely there are more than two who can agree a life is worth saving.

.......in Jesus name


Im babbling.....I'll go now


lyabg


LOL - never do you babble, Restygirl!

[Pretty Leaf]

My son's best friend died of brain cancer last Tuesday after a 5 month battle. He was to be released from hosp on Wed, BBQ (his fav) set for Sat, lapsed into coma on the Tuesday and died that night, funeral was on the Sat at the same tiime the BBQ was to start. When we came out of the fuuneral home 2 fighter jets flew over, like a sign from Shaun.

My former greatest boss died on Sunday after a 6 week battle with pancreatic cancer, diagnosed 2 days after Christmas and died on Valentine's day. Funeral this Sat.

SIL given 3 months in January, metastatic Breast Cancer.

So not so happy times right now, lots of tears.

[CHITCHAT]

oh, Pretty leaf, I'm so sorry to hear what a bad time you are having right now. All this shall pass. It wont be easy. each person brings so much to our lives. but they are all healthy now. And your friend is preparing a big bbq for all his new angel friends in heaven..and you will see them again.

[Sammyboy27]

Hey all.

2010 has been an interesting year so far. I've lost 3 loved ones all within about 3 weeks of one another. My uncle passed from pneumonia that wasn't being treated right, imo... He was a heavy smoker for many years. I guess this winter was just too relentless and the cold temps I'm sure didn't help him in beating the pneumonia. He passed away a few weeks ago. I also think he might have had cancer but, he wouldn't go to the doctor, so it's still kind of unknown. He just didn't look right to me, like he was sick and wasting away... My aunt actually passed away a day later, after a couragous battle with ALS (Lou Gehrig's Disease). It took her life in a little less than a year and a half. Such a terrible disease to watch someone succumb to. These beloved people were actually on opposite sides of my family. Quite a way to start out the year. I grew up with these people and I would consider them my closest uncle and my closest aunt. Both died young. My uncle was only 65 and my aunt was only 51. They were both exceptional people I was lucky to have known and been influenced by. The 3rd person I lost just a few days ago. It was my best friend's grandmother, who was like a grandmother to me. I lost all of my grandparents when I was very young, so she filled the role for me. She was such a beautiful person who never had an ill word to say about anyone. She was full of love and one the best damn cooks I've ever known. She was always very accepting of me and loved me unconditionally. She lived a full 82 years of life but eventually passed away from congestive heart failure. Her last months were painful and very hard on her, which was very difficult to watch her go through. It's hard when someone you love is suffering so much and you just can't help thinking, "why would such a wonderful person get such a raw deal like this?"...

To anyone that's lost a loved one, whether it be from alcoholism, drugs, or some sort of awful disease, I can relate. The feelings of loss and the grief and coping that go along with it are fresh in my mind currently, and that's why I felt like posting....

-Sam

[Grins]

Pretty Leaf and all who are grieving, we grieve with you
and hold you
close to our hearts, every minute, every day.
Know that we are there
and here~

[Grins]

A friend loves at all times
without question;
a friend is born to be there
in a season of trouble.

[allaboutfair]

My son's best friend died of brain cancer last Tuesday after a 5 month battle. He was to be released from hosp on Wed, BBQ (his fav) set for Sat, lapsed into coma on the Tuesday and died that night, funeral was on the Sat at the same tiime the BBQ was to start. When we came out of the fuuneral home 2 fighter jets flew over, like a sign from Shaun.

My former greatest boss died on Sunday after a 6 week battle with pancreatic cancer, diagnosed 2 days after Christmas and died on Valentine's day. Funeral this Sat.

SIL given 3 months in January, metastatic Breast Cancer.

So not so happy times right now, lots of tears.


Sending love and hugs to you, PL. You're in my heart and my prayers are with you. I'm so sorry you've been hit with such sadness.

[allaboutfair]

Hey all.

2010 has been an interesting year so far. I've lost 3 loved ones all within about 3 weeks of one another. My uncle passed from pneumonia that wasn't being treated right, imo... He was a heavy smoker for many years. I guess this winter was just too relentless and the cold temps I'm sure didn't help him in beating the pneumonia. He passed away a few weeks ago. I also think he might have had cancer but, he wouldn't go to the doctor, so it's still kind of unknown. He just didn't look right to me, like he was sick and wasting away... My aunt actually passed away a day later, after a couragous battle with ALS (Lou Gehrig's Disease). It took her life in a little less than a year and a half. Such a terrible disease to watch someone succumb to. These beloved people were actually on opposite sides of my family. Quite a way to start out the year. I grew up with these people and I would consider them my closest uncle and my closest aunt. Both died young. My uncle was only 65 and my aunt was only 51. They were both exceptional people I was lucky to have known and been influenced by. The 3rd person I lost just a few days ago. It was my best friend's grandmother, who was like a grandmother to me. I lost all of my grandparents when I was very young, so she filled the role for me. She was such a beautiful person who never had an ill word to say about anyone. She was full of love and one the best damn cooks I've ever known. She was always very accepting of me and loved me unconditionally. She lived a full 82 years of life but eventually passed away from congestive heart failure. Her last months were painful and very hard on her, which was very difficult to watch her go through. It's hard when someone you love is suffering so much and you just can't help thinking, "why would such a wonderful person get such a raw deal like this?"...

To anyone that's lost a loved one, whether it be from alcoholism, drugs, or some sort of awful disease, I can relate. The feelings of loss and the grief and coping that go along with it are fresh in my mind currently, and that's why I felt like posting....

-Sam



Sam, I'm so sorry for your losses. I know the pain is physical as well as emotional. I wish you strength and comfort as you go through this.

[Grins]

Sam,
Welcome to our recovery family!
Such losses in so short a time is beyond my imagining. Each person carries a special grief I suspect.

How are you dealing with it all?

[Sammyboy27]

Hello there :) Thanks for the welcome. I actually used to post on these boards more frequently a couple years ago, under the name sammyboy22 or 23... I can't exactly remember :)

I guess dealing with losing someone is something I'm becoming more and more used to. Funny thing, but today marks 9 years ago that I lost my mother to cancer. I will say it's still sad and still hurts that I lost her prematurely but, the sting and rawness of it all has disappated to some degree. I will say talking and writing about it help me out. It can be very cathartic to get your thoughts somewhat organized and out of your head. I talk about things a lot more than I used to, so does my family. That is one positive thing that comes out of it all. Also I'm in school to become a nurse at the moment. I've taken lots of classes and learned a lot about death and the whole grieving process, and how necessary it is for people to try to get some kind of closure. I haven't experienced the death of loved one that has been very sudden or related to suicide. I really think I'd have a hard time with that and hope that I will never have to find out what it feels like. Everyone that's lost a loved one to suicide or a sudden situation, my heart truly goes out to you...

As for grieving/coping, for the most part I'm regularly talking about my lost loved ones and trying to stay focused on everything else I have going on in my life... I will say that losing my aunt a few weeks ago has been tough. Her funeral was highly emotional and it is truly hard to say goodbye. She was such a beautiful person and there will never be another person I know who will replace her. She had the most infectious laugh that I can still hear loud and clear. She was always so positive and truly interested in what was going on in your life. She made you feel loved and special whenever you were around her. She worked tirelessly for non-profits throughout her career, even working for the MS Society for many years. That's why it's so hard to understand why someone so genuine and caring could lose her life to such a devastating disease... She really stepped in after my mother passed away and helped my dad and my bros and me "pick up the pieces", as did my uncle who passed. After her funeral me, my dad, my stepmother, and two of my brothers went and had a nice lunch and shared memories of our loved ones who had passed. After lunch we went back to my dad's house and went through old photos and reminisced. It felt really good to do that.

-Sam

[Grins]

Really helpful posts Sam. :thumbsup:
There is so much in there I will read them all again and save.

Especially,
"After her funeral me, my dad, my stepmother, and two of my brothers went and had a nice lunch and shared memories of our loved ones who had passed. After lunch we went back to my dad's house and went through old photos and reminisced. It felt really good to do that."

Positive focus of the good life and happy times brings a needed healing and lifts our hearts.
Well done.
Look forward to more discussions of these vital issues.

[allaboutfair]

Hello there :) Thanks for the welcome. I actually used to post on these boards more frequently a couple years ago, under the name sammyboy22 or 23... I can't exactly remember :)

I guess dealing with losing someone is something I'm becoming more and more used to. Funny thing, but today marks 9 years ago that I lost my mother to cancer. I will say it's still sad and still hurts that I lost her prematurely but, the sting and rawness of it all has disappated to some degree. I will say talking and writing about it help me out. It can be very cathartic to get your thoughts somewhat organized and out of your head. I talk about things a lot more than I used to, so does my family. That is one positive thing that comes out of it all. Also I'm in school to become a nurse at the moment. I've taken lots of classes and learned a lot about death and the whole grieving process, and how necessary it is for people to try to get some kind of closure. I haven't experienced the death of loved one that has been very sudden or related to suicide. I really think I'd have a hard time with that and hope that I will never have to find out what it feels like. Everyone that's lost a loved one to suicide or a sudden situation, my heart truly goes out to you...

As for grieving/coping, for the most part I'm regularly talking about my lost loved ones and trying to stay focused on everything else I have going on in my life... I will say that losing my aunt a few weeks ago has been tough. Her funeral was highly emotional and it is truly hard to say goodbye. She was such a beautiful person and there will never be another person I know who will replace her. She had the most infectious laugh that I can still hear loud and clear. She was always so positive and truly interested in what was going on in your life. She made you feel loved and special whenever you were around her. She worked tirelessly for non-profits throughout her career, even working for the MS Society for many years. That's why it's so hard to understand why someone so genuine and caring could lose her life to such a devastating disease... She really stepped in after my mother passed away and helped my dad and my bros and me "pick up the pieces", as did my uncle who passed. After her funeral me, my dad, my stepmother, and two of my brothers went and had a nice lunch and shared memories of our loved ones who had passed. After lunch we went back to my dad's house and went through old photos and reminisced. It felt really good to do that.

-Sam



Hi, Sam - I think losing someone is difficult no matter the cause. There are different feelings associated with the loss as with anyone. I lost a brother to suicide, I've lost grandparents, aunts, uncles, friends, pets to natural causes. I've been through the murder of a dear friend of my son's. They all hurt. My brother's suicide was devastating in a different way, but we learn to live with them all and they all hurt.

I understood exactly what you meant about the sting and rawness of it dissipating. It is a physical pain as well as an emotional pain when we lose someone we love. I thought you said it so very well.

Talking, too, is how I've learned to cope with it all. I feel it is so important and I'm glad you've come to share your losses with us. I truly believe there is healing in the sharing of our pain. I wish you healing.

[Grins]

A new suicide recovery group has formed here and meets at a hospital with a therapist on hand. I was happy to see it written about in a prominent place in the newspaper.

12 step groups have proven over the last 70 plus years that there is something we cannot explain that is healing in the gathering together of people going through a similar problem.

Whatever you are suffering, look for a local group where you may listen and join in or not as you wish.

United Way, hospital Social Services and blue pages have info.

[allaboutfair]

That's wonderful, Grins. Suicide should not be a hush-hush subject. It needs to be talked about so that others may be helped.

[kapupa]

Has it really been two weeks? It seems like I just broke my ankle yesterday but I've been wearing this dang velcro bootie/cast deal forever! I went to the Emergency room at the Beaumont Army Hospital in El Paso...I wasn't ready for that! The army is a whole lot more military than my usual veteran care at Albuquerque. For starters, they didn't have a Mariachi band in the main waiting room. No big coffee shop, no free popcorn, very few senior volunteers, no 100 year old Nat Geos. Odd, they did have a large collection of china from the Titanic on display. Everyone that worked on me was in uniform, lots of calling me "sir". Very professional, very busy. Everyone that worked on me was also training someone else...Xrays showed I broke my left fibula, just above my ankle. Eight weeks to repair. They fixed me up with a temporary cast and sent me home for two days to let the swelling go down, gave me some oxycotin and crutches and a big lecture on using them.

Two days later I went back, this time to orthopedics. I haven't been yelled at like that since boot camp! "You orders were to stay off of this foot and let the swelling go down! What, did you do, walk here? Don't you know how to use those crutches? Did you not go thru the training course? Look here, there's even gravel all stuck in the bottom of the cast..." I had heard it clicking on their spit and polished floor. "Sorry sir...I'll do better this time." I keep thinkin' "gave me orders?" But, but, I'm a civilian now, I have long hair and everything.

They put me in this big nightmare of a velcro strap,steel braces, and foam Knee-length bootie with a rubber foot pad on it the size of a car battery. If I painted it yellow, it'd look like the boot they clamp on the wheel of an illegally parked car. Itchy, uncomfortable mess. It has to weigh ten pounds, okay, maybe a little less but it's still heavy and at least an inch or two higher than any shoe I have for my other foot. I reckon they mean for me to stay off of it, "here's your prescription", another bottle of oxycotin. I'm expectin' Misty and Ron to knock on my door any minute now.

I go back on the fourth, maybe I'll get a haircut first.

[delsina363]

My best friends son O.D.'d on Monday. He is in critical condition. I believe drugs are the root of all evil!!:sad:

[gino1234]

My best friends son O.D.'d on Monday. He is in critical condition. I believe drugs are the root of all evil!!:sad:
my cousins 28yr. old wife died from a drug over dose she was found by her 12 yr old daughter. The daughter said mommy was black and blue, all the blood settled so her upper boby had no blood so she was black and blue...... Sad No one wins from a drug over dose....

[Sammyboy27]

Drug OD's are so sad. My friend did try (unsuccessfully) to OD a couple times a few years ago... She is in a much better place nowadays and is moving in a much more positive direction with her life. Both times she tried to OD she did it with common OTC medications, not hard illegal drugs. The last time she tried to it was with Tylenol PM. Tylenol toxicity basically kills your liver... After she took all of it she went to sleep for like 14 hours and then woke up really sick and had someone take her to the hospital... I can't believe she survived given the amount she took at one time and the grim state she was in at the hospital (liver failure, talk of needing a transplant, really really bad shape). I told her I didn't think I could take being a close friend in her life with her trying to take her life on an almost annual basis, it was becoming way to much for me to handle... She also had some lifestyle choices going on then that I let her know she would have to change if we were going to continue to be friends. She was drinking very heavily (while on antidepressants), and she had a very very toxic boyfriend she lived with at the time. Now, its been a few years and I'm happy to say that she has completely turned her life around now. She is actually getting married this weekend (totally different guy and I love him) and she has a great job and outlook on life now.

No one wins with suicide. It's just so sad.

-Sam

[Pretty Leaf]

My best friends son O.D.'d on Monday. He is in critical condition. I believe drugs are the root of all evil!!:sad:

My prayers go out to him and his family. There are no words. Hopefully he will be alright and safe.

PL

[Pretty Leaf]

my cousins 28yr. old wife died from a drug over dose she was found by her 12 yr old daughter. The daughter said mommy was black and blue, all the blood settled so her upper boby had no blood so she was black and blue...... Sad No one wins from a drug over dose....

I hope the daughter is receiving some sort of therapy..how horrible it must have been for her and probably effect her for the rest of her life.

Most people who suicide are in such a place of despair they do not think about the end result on family and friends because they at that moment think the world, or their family would be better without. Also that they can no longer live on in this world.

In my attempt I was already very sick and I thought of none of that. It was not that my mind was made up to do it, it was as if was going to brush my teeth, instead I took a bottle of pills.
I wrote letters to my family as if I was writing a Christmas card, all perfectly normal to me. Looking back it seemed like a normal day but my actions that day were not selfish they just were a chain of events.

I know people who have not been to that place may not understand, it is difficult to put in words, but it was like I was a robot. Do this, do that, take some pills...... not easily understood but that's what is was like to me that day.

:rose:

PL

[Grins]

Pretty Leaf, I was just the same as you see upthread.
Depression messes with your head.

In my recovery, help is what I needed as you see.
One is the return to the God of my youth.
Reading this encouraged me:

"Isaiah 40:28-31
(New International Version)

Do you not know?
Have you not heard?
The LORD is the everlasting God,
the Creator of the ends of the earth.
He will not grow tired or weary,
and his understanding no one can fathom.

He gives strength to the weary
and increases the power of the weak.

Even youths grow tired and weary,
and young men stumble and fall;

but those who hope in the LORD
will renew their strength.
They will soar on wings like eagles;
they will run and not grow weary,
they will walk and not be faint."

Link (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+40%3A28-31&version=NIV)

[Grins]

My best friends son O.D.'d on Monday. He is in critical condition. I believe drugs are the root of all evil!!:sad:Delsina, I pray for his recovery and restoration to his real self. Drugs and alcohol steal our true self, our mind and heart.
There is hope. Prayer saved me and I have been alcohol and cigarette free for 13 years; depression treated and healed but it is a continuing process to avoid old bad thinking habits.

[Grins]

my cousins 28yr. old wife died from a drug over dose she was found by her 12 yr old daughter. The daughter said mommy was black and blue, all the blood settled so her upper boby had no blood so she was black and blue...... Sad No one wins from a drug over dose....I grieve with you and the family and friends Gino. My heart goes out to each one.
Help them deal with guilt feelings.

[Grins]

Sam! Another story of HOPE!
Another case that seemed hopeless, turned around and her true self restored and a new adventure is here.

How do you feel now, since you played a major part in her recovery?

What did she do to get help?

[Grins]

LOL Kapupa

Your sense of humor aint busted anyways :thumbsup:
always look forward to yer posts :thumbup:

[Sammyboy27]

Sam! Another story of HOPE!
Another case that seemed hopeless, turned around and her true self restored and a new adventure is here.

How do you feel now, since you played a major part in her recovery?

What did she do to get help?

Hey there Grins :)

My friend ended up hitting rock bottom I suppose. She showed up at work really drunk, lost her job completely and had one of her co workers take her to the hospital... She did a 3 week stay in the psych ward, and then was discharged. She broke up with the toxic boyfriend, moved to California for a few months, came back and ended up getting back together with the love of her life from long ago. That was almost two years ago... She landed a job that she really liked and took care of a lot of old legal stuff she had looming over her...

I think just getting through most of her 20's and maturing some was a key part in her recovery. I think she outgrew a lot of the stuff she was into. She's more focused now on improving her life. I think she understands now that she took many things to the limit and then some, and is luckily still alive and here to tell her story... She is a beautiful person with a great heart and I was her friend when a lot of people judged her and wanted nothing to do with her. I never gave up on her because I saw the potential in her and the type of person she could be when she was sober and "sane"... Although she is ultimately responsible for her behavior, she had many toxic influences over the years that I hold responsible as well...

I'm glad that I'm still in her life and we are so close. She is a great friend and she means a lot to me. Her recovery is ongoing, and recovery means different things to different people I'm sure. Recovery for her means that she has a grip on realilty, is holding down a good job, the guy she is with gets her very well, supports her and doesn't abuse her. It's truly awesome to see her in probably the best place I've ever seen her in, and I've known her for about 10 years.

-Sam

[allaboutfair]

Has it really been two weeks? It seems like I just broke my ankle yesterday but I've been wearing this dang velcro bootie/cast deal forever! I went to the Emergency room at the Beaumont Army Hospital in El Paso...I wasn't ready for that! The army is a whole lot more military than my usual veteran care at Albuquerque. For starters, they didn't have a Mariachi band in the main waiting room. No big coffee shop, no free popcorn, very few senior volunteers, no 100 year old Nat Geos. Odd, they did have a large collection of china from the Titanic on display. Everyone that worked on me was in uniform, lots of calling me "sir". Very professional, very busy. Everyone that worked on me was also training someone else...Xrays showed I broke my left fibula, just above my ankle. Eight weeks to repair. They fixed me up with a temporary cast and sent me home for two days to let the swelling go down, gave me some oxycotin and crutches and a big lecture on using them.

Two days later I went back, this time to orthopedics. I haven't been yelled at like that since boot camp! "You orders were to stay off of this foot and let the swelling go down! What, did you do, walk here? Don't you know how to use those crutches? Did you not go thru the training course? Look here, there's even gravel all stuck in the bottom of the cast..." I had heard it clicking on their spit and polished floor. "Sorry sir...I'll do better this time." I keep thinkin' "gave me orders?" But, but, I'm a civilian now, I have long hair and everything.

They put me in this big nightmare of a velcro strap,steel braces, and foam Knee-length bootie with a rubber foot pad on it the size of a car battery. If I painted it yellow, it'd look like the boot they clamp on the wheel of an illegally parked car. Itchy, uncomfortable mess. It has to weigh ten pounds, okay, maybe a little less but it's still heavy and at least an inch or two higher than any shoe I have for my other foot. I reckon they mean for me to stay off of it, "here's your prescription", another bottle of oxycotin. I'm expectin' Misty and Ron to knock on my door any minute now.

I go back on the fourth, maybe I'll get a haircut first.



Kapupa, my friend, please be careful with that oxycotin! You don't want any set-backs! Is your ankle in a lot of pain? I'm worried about you!

[allaboutfair]

My best friends son O.D.'d on Monday. He is in critical condition. I believe drugs are the root of all evil!!:sad:



Delsina, how is your friend's son? Drugs are the root of all evil when misused. I hope he's healing and can get some much-needed help. Keep us posted.

[allaboutfair]

my cousins 28yr. old wife died from a drug over dose she was found by her 12 yr old daughter. The daughter said mommy was black and blue, all the blood settled so her upper boby had no blood so she was black and blue...... Sad No one wins from a drug over dose....



Oh, Gino! The image that poor child has left with her! When was that? I'm so sorry!

[allaboutfair]

Drug OD's are so sad. My friend did try (unsuccessfully) to OD a couple times a few years ago... She is in a much better place nowadays and is moving in a much more positive direction with her life. Both times she tried to OD she did it with common OTC medications, not hard illegal drugs. The last time she tried to it was with Tylenol PM. Tylenol toxicity basically kills your liver... After she took all of it she went to sleep for like 14 hours and then woke up really sick and had someone take her to the hospital... I can't believe she survived given the amount she took at one time and the grim state she was in at the hospital (liver failure, talk of needing a transplant, really really bad shape). I told her I didn't think I could take being a close friend in her life with her trying to take her life on an almost annual basis, it was becoming way to much for me to handle... She also had some lifestyle choices going on then that I let her know she would have to change if we were going to continue to be friends. She was drinking very heavily (while on antidepressants), and she had a very very toxic boyfriend she lived with at the time. Now, its been a few years and I'm happy to say that she has completely turned her life around now. She is actually getting married this weekend (totally different guy and I love him) and she has a great job and outlook on life now.

No one wins with suicide. It's just so sad.

-Sam



What a wonderful story of love and renewal, Sam. You are a wonderful friend to her. I hope she continues on this track.

[allaboutfair]

I hope the daughter is receiving some sort of therapy..how horrible it must have been for her and probably effect her for the rest of her life.

Most people who suicide are in such a place of despair they do not think about the end result on family and friends because they at that moment think the world, or their family would be better without. Also that they can no longer live on in this world.

In my attempt I was already very sick and I thought of none of that. It was not that my mind was made up to do it, it was as if was going to brush my teeth, instead I took a bottle of pills.
I wrote letters to my family as if I was writing a Christmas card, all perfectly normal to me. Looking back it seemed like a normal day but my actions that day were not selfish they just were a chain of events.

I know people who have not been to that place may not understand, it is difficult to put in words, but it was like I was a robot. Do this, do that, take some pills...... not easily understood but that's what is was like to me that day.

:rose:

PL



My dearest, PL, I am thankful to have you here today and one I call a friend. I hear what you're saying - I saw that in my brother before he took his life.

[allaboutfair]

Hey there Grins :)

My friend ended up hitting rock bottom I suppose. She showed up at work really drunk, lost her job completely and had one of her co workers take her to the hospital... She did a 3 week stay in the psych ward, and then was discharged. She broke up with the toxic boyfriend, moved to California for a few months, came back and ended up getting back together with the love of her life from long ago. That was almost two years ago... She landed a job that she really liked and took care of a lot of old legal stuff she had looming over her...

I think just getting through most of her 20's and maturing some was a key part in her recovery. I think she outgrew a lot of the stuff she was into. She's more focused now on improving her life. I think she understands now that she took many things to the limit and then some, and is luckily still alive and here to tell her story... She is a beautiful person with a great heart and I was her friend when a lot of people judged her and wanted nothing to do with her. I never gave up on her because I saw the potential in her and the type of person she could be when she was sober and "sane"... Although she is ultimately responsible for her behavior, she had many toxic influences over the years that I hold responsible as well...

I'm glad that I'm still in her life and we are so close. She is a great friend and she means a lot to me. Her recovery is ongoing, and recovery means different things to different people I'm sure. Recovery for her means that she has a grip on realilty, is holding down a good job, the guy she is with gets her very well, supports her and doesn't abuse her. It's truly awesome to see her in probably the best place I've ever seen her in, and I've known her for about 10 years.

-Sam



That's awesome, Sam! I think recovery is probably a lifelong process. We are all, perhaps, always in recovery to re-evaluate our lives and stay on track. Best wishes for your friend. I hope her wedding is the most beautiful ever!

[Grins]

Hey there Grins :)

My friend ended up hitting rock bottom I suppose. She showed up at work really drunk, lost her job completely and had one of her co workers take her to the hospital... She did a 3 week stay in the psych ward, and then was discharged. She broke up with the toxic boyfriend, moved to California for a few months, came back and ended up getting back together with the love of her life from long ago. That was almost two years ago... She landed a job that she really liked and took care of a lot of old legal stuff she had looming over her...

I think just getting through most of her 20's and maturing some was a key part in her recovery. I think she outgrew a lot of the stuff she was into. She's more focused now on improving her life. I think she understands now that she took many things to the limit and then some, and is luckily still alive and here to tell her story... She is a beautiful person with a great heart and I was her friend when a lot of people judged her and wanted nothing to do with her. I never gave up on her because I saw the potential in her and the type of person she could be when she was sober and "sane"... Although she is ultimately responsible for her behavior, she had many toxic influences over the years that I hold responsible as well...

I'm glad that I'm still in her life and we are so close. She is a great friend and she means a lot to me. Her recovery is ongoing, and recovery means different things to different people I'm sure. Recovery for her means that she has a grip on realilty, is holding down a good job, the guy she is with gets her very well, supports her and doesn't abuse her. It's truly awesome to see her in probably the best place I've ever seen her in, and I've known her for about 10 years.

-SamHi Sam :thumbsup:
What you have said is so inspiring and encouraging to the addict and their friends and family that I wish that all who are suffering could read it.

You handled your part perfectly and demonstrate the healthy middle ground between the extremes of total rejection and enabling.

Is it ok if I copy and share your story with others?

Bless you for blessing her life.
You are a true friend and a Hero to me and I am sure, to her.

[Grins]

That's awesome, Sam! I think recovery is probably a lifelong process. We are all, perhaps, always in recovery to re-evaluate our lives and stay on track. Best wishes for your friend. I hope her wedding is the most beautiful ever!Well said, Peace! We all need to continually do a "searching and fearless moral inventory." Then make changes...

:thumbup:
After I read Sam's post, I felt like cheering!!

[allaboutfair]

Well said, Peace! We all need to continually do a "searching and fearless moral inventory." Then make changes...

:thumbup:
After I read Sam's post, I felt like cheering!!



Oh, Grins, that's so true! I read Sam's post and thought 'this is a friend who really gets it and is a true friend'. I think we have to preserve ourselves in a friendship and when a friend starts becoming a little toxic, we have to draw the line. Like with our own children and "tough love". We love our children enough to have to be tough and demand their best. For themselves and for us.

[Grins]

Depression and suicide
I appreciate all who post about recent tragic events and the subject of depression.
It is a complex disorder and has many levels. Further complications are self-medication and physical and emotional disorders.

It is important for me to be very sensitive about what I say to a family who lost a loved one to suicide. Help with the entire spectrum is online.
Link (http://www.suicide.org/suicide-survivors.html)

Important and Timely!
A National Institute of Health article provides in part,

"Genetic Variants in Depressed People Raise Suicide Risk

Certain mutations increase the likelihood nearly fivefold, study finds
HealthDay
Monday, February 1, 2010

Researchers have identified five gene variants that raise the risk for suicide attempts in people suffering from depression.

For now, the research provides insight into what goes awry in people who have suicidal tendencies. In the future, researchers hope the findings will translate into effective drug treatments.

"The goal of this kind of research is to find mechanistic targets for new therapies," explained study author Martin A. Kohli, a postdoctoral fellow at the John P. Hussman Institute for Human Genomics at the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine. "It's a hint towards the search for new medications. We think we've discovered a new target for such kind of medication."

Kohli conducted the research while at the Max Planck Institute of Psychiatry in Munich, Germany. The study, published online Feb. 1, will appear in the April print issue of the Archives of General Psychiatry.

According to background information in the paper, 10 million to 20 million suicide attempts occur annually around the world. One million complete the act.

Previous research has indicated that reduced neurotrophic activity may be involved in major depressive disorder and suicidal behavior. Neurotrophins are proteins that keep neurons -- specialized cells in the nervous system -- alive and active.

"There is a lot of data from a lot of different sources that say that something is wrong with the neurotrophin system in people that develop [a tendency toward] suicide," confirmed Keith Young, vice chair of research psychiatry and behavioral science at Texas A&M Health Science Center College of Medicine, in Temple.

The researchers zeroed in on two genes because postmortem brain studies had shown reduced levels of these genes in suicide victims..."

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_94773.html

[Sammyboy27]

Hi Sam :thumbsup:
What you have said is so inspiring and encouraging to the addict and their friends and family that I wish that all who are suffering could read it.

You handled your part perfectly and demonstrate the healthy middle ground between the extremes of total rejection and enabling.

Is it ok if I copy and share your story with others?

Bless you for blessing her life.
You are a true friend and a Hero to me and I am sure, to her.


Hey Grins :)

You can absolutely share this if you like.

Thanks to everyone for reading it. She had an awesome wedding over the weekend and I was very happy to be a part of it. She was beaming with a happiness that has been long deserved. Like I said, she is in a great place that I just knew would come eventually for her. Sometimes you just have to go through the bad to get to the good.

-Sam

[allaboutfair]

Depression and suicide
I appreciate all who post about recent tragic events and the subject of depression.
It is a complex disorder and has many levels. Further complications are self-medication and physical and emotional disorders.

It is important for me to be very sensitive about what I say to a family who lost a loved one to suicide. Help with the entire spectrum is online.
Link (http://www.suicide.org/suicide-survivors.html)

Important and Timely!
A National Institute of Health article provides in part,

"Genetic Variants in Depressed People Raise Suicide Risk

Certain mutations increase the likelihood nearly fivefold, study finds
HealthDay
Monday, February 1, 2010

Researchers have identified five gene variants that raise the risk for suicide attempts in people suffering from depression.

For now, the research provides insight into what goes awry in people who have suicidal tendencies. In the future, researchers hope the findings will translate into effective drug treatments.

"The goal of this kind of research is to find mechanistic targets for new therapies," explained study author Martin A. Kohli, a postdoctoral fellow at the John P. Hussman Institute for Human Genomics at the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine. "It's a hint towards the search for new medications. We think we've discovered a new target for such kind of medication."

Kohli conducted the research while at the Max Planck Institute of Psychiatry in Munich, Germany. The study, published online Feb. 1, will appear in the April print issue of the Archives of General Psychiatry.

According to background information in the paper, 10 million to 20 million suicide attempts occur annually around the world. One million complete the act.

Previous research has indicated that reduced neurotrophic activity may be involved in major depressive disorder and suicidal behavior. Neurotrophins are proteins that keep neurons -- specialized cells in the nervous system -- alive and active.

"There is a lot of data from a lot of different sources that say that something is wrong with the neurotrophin system in people that develop [a tendency toward] suicide," confirmed Keith Young, vice chair of research psychiatry and behavioral science at Texas A&M Health Science Center College of Medicine, in Temple.

The researchers zeroed in on two genes because postmortem brain studies had shown reduced levels of these genes in suicide victims..."

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_94773.html



Well said, Grins and so true! Losing someone is hard enough, but there is something even more tragic about suicide and hurtful that someone would choose to leave. However we may understand on the reality level that it was suicide/depression - maybe not a choice but just an act of desperation - there is the emotional level that still hurts and feels that someone you love left you of their own hand. I feel it is important for comfort to be given to all family and friends in any loss.

[allaboutfair]

Hey Grins :)

You can absolutely share this if you like.

Thanks to everyone for reading it. She had an awesome wedding over the weekend and I was very happy to be a part of it. She was beaming with a happiness that has been long deserved. Like I said, she is in a great place that I just knew would come eventually for her. Sometimes you just have to go through the bad to get to the good.

-Sam



I want to shout out "Woo-hoo"!!!!

[Grins]

Me tooooooooo
WooooooooooooHooooooo

While we are feeling romantic, it is good to look back on fond memories
and it helps me to write about them.

Writing helps with grief too, so try it!``````````

Yearning

Seeing you at the high school dances
a few feet away and a hundred miles
your smiles for your boyfriend
face aglow I know

I shall never forget
how beautiful you are tonight
with a ribbon in your hair

Oh sure we hang out the whole gang
together every one a clown up and down
the main drag driving gas was cheap
we beep at other girls and you smack us
fondly

You laugh at my craziness always
ordering pigs feet at the diner
where we meet and eat

We are good friends and confide
I'd give you advice about problems
with him
yearning to
be him

Over the months and years we did have fun
so I look back seeing it all feeling it all
the ache still there in that corner of my heart
reserved for you

saving the best memory for last

The night we did have one dance
I got to hold you close just once
against my yearning heart
just once
summoning the courage to say

I shall never forget
how beautiful you are tonight
with a ribbon in your hair~


he
Grins

[Grins]

Pride
Stubborn excessive pride

It took a long time for me to admit I was an alcoholic because of pride.
After all, look at what I had achieved in life.
I was a nice guy..
and so on....

What helped was
I am allergic to cinnamon
no matter my achievements
I am allergic to cinnamon

aha
I am allergic to alcohol
no matter.....

[Grins]

An inspiring story; giving to others after heartbreak.

"From tragedy, Steelers' Charlie Batch offers hope
Steelers quarterback lends a hand to kids in memory of slain sister

Sunday, January 03, 2010
By Robert Dvorchak,
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

From a red brick building that once was a funeral home, within sight of the cemetery where his murdered sister is buried, Charlie Batch offers chances for renewal.

While the symbolism may not be as tidy as the mythical phoenix rising from its ashes, it gets to the heart of the Best of the Batch Foundation, which was created out of a personal tragedy to help kids in the place where he grew up.

"Something was taken away that can never be replaced," said the backup quarterback for the Steelers. "There's always a reminder, like something as small as putting an ornament on the Christmas tree, or having to pass her grave every time I drive to my mom's house.

"But I said that if I had the chance, I'd give back to the community. We didn't want any other family to go through what we went through, to be the lead story on the 11 o'clock news. Now we have a purpose."

He never had a chance to say goodbye when his younger sister, Danyl Settles, was killed in the crossfire between warring gangs nearly 14 years ago. But her spirit lives on through a series of programs that serves as an opportunity for the youth of Homestead, West Homestead and Munhall..."

More and a pic at
Link (http://postgazette.com/pg/10003/1025399-55.stm)

[allaboutfair]

Hiya, Grins! Your poems are always so insightful.

I saw that info about Charlie Batch, too. He's a good guy.

[allaboutfair]

Checking in on my friends . . .

[Grins]

12 step groups helped save my life and definitely make it better. Had to laugh when I realized I qualified for
= AA, Alcoholics Anonymous
= ACOA, Adult Children of Alcoholic [and other dysfunctional families
= Al-Anon
so I added
AAA for fun....

======The Big Book od AA is now online!
at
http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_tableofcnt.cfm

==
more on

Welcome to Al-Anon/Alateen
For over 55 years, Al-Anon (which includes Alateen for younger members) has been offering strength and hope for friends and families of problem drinkers.

It is estimated that each alcoholic affects the lives of at least four other people... alcoholism is truly a family disease. No matter what relationship you have with an alcoholic, whether they are still drinking or not, all who have been affected by someone else’s drinking can find solutions that lead to serenity in the Al-Anon/Alateen fellowship.."
http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/english.html
________________.

"Information for the Newcomer to Al-Anon

Welcome to Al-Anon–we know that you will find help and hope in over 24,000 meetings, found in 115 countries. We offer here answers to some of the most frequently asked questions about our fellowship.

* How will Al-Anon help me?
* How do I find a meeting?
* Who are the members of Al-Anon and Alateen?
* Do I have to say anything at a meeting?
* Will anyone say I've been there?
* How much is this going to cost?
* Is this a religious fellowship?
* What is alcoholism?
* Who are alcoholics?
* How do alcoholics affect families and friends?
http://www.al-anon.org/newcomer.html

"Al-Anon Family Groups on the Internet
As the Internet itself has rapidly grown in the past few years, members of Al-Anon Family Groups were included in the millions of people who went "online." Many of those members have naturally gathered themselves together to fellowship and share their experience, strength, and hope.

For many of us in the online community, Al-Anon on the Internet has been a wonderful supplement to our personal journey of recovery -- another tool we have added to help us work the program. But for many others, who were formerly "lone members" or limited by physical disability from attending regular "face-to-face" meetings, Online Al-Anon has been nothing short of a gift from a power greater than ourselves.

While Online Al-Anon should not substitute for person-to-person Al-Anon Family Group membership, due to its limitations in providing true personal contact with others in recovery, Al-Anon on the Internet has many advantages. "Meetings" on the Internet are virtually continuous and are not restricted by geographical differences. It is unfettered by time and space in its efforts to welcome and give comfort to the families of alcoholics.

Al-Anon members have gathered themselves together in many different methods of online fellowship. Following are some examples of how we have joined together online in order to solve our common problems. Click on the links below to learn how they work and how to contact the various groups that are listed as OLA Meetings at Al-Anon's World Service Office:.."

http://www.ola-is.org/

[allaboutfair]

Great links, Grins.

How is everyone today on this first day of spring?

[Silk]

12 step groups helped save my life and definitely make it better. Had to laugh when I realized I qualified for
= AA, Alcoholics Anonymous
= ACOA, Adult Children of Alcoholic [and other dysfunctional families
= Al-Anon
so I added
AAA for fun....

======The Big Book od AA is now online!
at
http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_tableofcnt.cfm

==
more on

Welcome to Al-Anon/Alateen
For over 55 years, Al-Anon (which includes Alateen for younger members) has been offering strength and hope for friends and families of problem drinkers.

It is estimated that each alcoholic affects the lives of at least four other people... alcoholism is truly a family disease. No matter what relationship you have with an alcoholic, whether they are still drinking or not, all who have been affected by someone else’s drinking can find solutions that lead to serenity in the Al-Anon/Alateen fellowship.."
http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/english.html
________________.

"Information for the Newcomer to Al-Anon

Welcome to Al-Anon–we know that you will find help and hope in over 24,000 meetings, found in 115 countries. We offer here answers to some of the most frequently asked questions about our fellowship.

* How will Al-Anon help me?
* How do I find a meeting?
* Who are the members of Al-Anon and Alateen?
* Do I have to say anything at a meeting?
* Will anyone say I've been there?
* How much is this going to cost?
* Is this a religious fellowship?
* What is alcoholism?
* Who are alcoholics?
* How do alcoholics affect families and friends?
http://www.al-anon.org/newcomer.html

"Al-Anon Family Groups on the Internet
As the Internet itself has rapidly grown in the past few years, members of Al-Anon Family Groups were included in the millions of people who went "online." Many of those members have naturally gathered themselves together to fellowship and share their experience, strength, and hope.

For many of us in the online community, Al-Anon on the Internet has been a wonderful supplement to our personal journey of recovery -- another tool we have added to help us work the program. But for many others, who were formerly "lone members" or limited by physical disability from attending regular "face-to-face" meetings, Online Al-Anon has been nothing short of a gift from a power greater than ourselves.

While Online Al-Anon should not substitute for person-to-person Al-Anon Family Group membership, due to its limitations in providing true personal contact with others in recovery, Al-Anon on the Internet has many advantages. "Meetings" on the Internet are virtually continuous and are not restricted by geographical differences. It is unfettered by time and space in its efforts to welcome and give comfort to the families of alcoholics.

Al-Anon members have gathered themselves together in many different methods of online fellowship. Following are some examples of how we have joined together online in order to solve our common problems. Click on the links below to learn how they work and how to contact the various groups that are listed as OLA Meetings at Al-Anon's World Service Office:.."

http://www.ola-is.org/

Wonderful link, Grins...Congratulations!!!:thumbup:

They say if you don't follow the book then it doesn't work to try and just stop drinking. You have to do it all together. A family member believes this...He now has a wonderful family, home and is living the good life...