11/25 - 12/14 [Archive] - In Session Message Boards

*Onmyknervz*

11-25-2009, 11:04 PM

Oxford University, March 2001 by Michael Jackson

Thank you, thank you dear friends, from the bottom of my heart, for such a loving and spirited welcome, and thank you, Mr President, for your kind invitation to me which I am so honoured to accept. I also want to express a special thanks to you Shmuley, who for 11 years served as Rabbi here at Oxford. You and I have been working so hard to form Heal the Kids, as well as writing our book about childlike qualities, and in all of our efforts you have been such a supportive and loving friend. And I would also like to thank Toba Friedman, our director of operations at Heal the Kids, who is returning tonight to the alma mater where she served as a Marshall scholar, as well as Marilyn Piels, another central member of our Heal the Kids team.
I am humbled to be lecturing in a place that has previously been filled by such notable figures as Mother Theresa, Albert Einstein, Ronald Reagan, Robert Kennedy and Malcolm X. I've even heard that Kermit the Frog has made an appearance here, and I've always felt a kinship with Kermit's message that it's not easy being green. I'm sure he didn't find it any easier being up here than I do!
As I looked around Oxford today, I couldn't help but be aware of the majesty and grandeur of this great institution, not to mention the brilliance of the great and gifted minds that have roamed these streets for centuries. The walls of Oxford have not only housed the greatest philosophical and scientific geniuses - they have also ushered forth some of the most cherished creators of children's literature, from J.R.R. Tolkien to CS Lewis. Today I was allowed to hobble into the dining hall in Christ Church to see Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland immortalised in the stained glass windows. And even one of my own fellow Americans, the beloved Dr Seuss graced these halls and then went on to leave his mark on the imaginations of millions of children throughout the world.
I suppose I should start by listing my qualifications to speak before you this evening. Friends, I do not claim to have the academic expertise of other speakers who have addressed this hall, just as they could lay little claim at being adept at the moonwalk - and you know, Einstein in particular was really TERRIBLE at that.
But I do have a claim to having experienced more places and cultures than most people will ever see. Human knowledge consists not only of libraries of parchment and ink - it is also comprised of the volumes of knowledge that are written on the human heart, chiselled on the human soul, and engraved on the human psyche. And friends, I have encountered so much in this relatively short life of mine that I still cannot believe I am only 42. I often tell Shmuley that in soul years I'm sure that I'm at least 80 - and tonight I even walk like I'm 80! So please harken to my message, because what I have to tell you tonight can bring healing to humanity and healing to our planet.
Through the grace of God, I have been fortunate to have achieved many of my artistic and professional aspirations realised early in my lifetime. But these, friends are accomplishments, and accomplishments alone are not synonymous with who I am. Indeed, the cheery five-year-old who belted out Rockin' Robin and Ben to adoring crowds was not indicative of the boy behind the smile.

*Onmyknervz*

11-25-2009, 11:07 PM

Oxford University, March 2001 by Michael Jackson

Tonight, I come before you less as an icon of pop (whatever that means anyway), and more as an icon of a generation, a generation that no longer knows what it means to be children.
All of us are products of our childhood. But I am the product of a lack of a childhood, an absence of that precious and wondrous age when we frolic playfully without a care in the world, basking in the adoration of parents and relatives, where our biggest concern is studying for that big spelling test come Monday morning.
Those of you who are familiar with the Jackson Five know that I began performing at the tender age of five and that ever since then, I haven't stopped dancing or singing. But while performing and making music undoubtedly remain as some of my greatest joys, when I was young I wanted more than anything else to be a typical little boy. I wanted to build tree houses, have water balloon fights, and play hide and seek with my friends. But fate had it otherwise and all I could do was envy the laughter and playtime that seemed to be going on all around me.
There was no respite from my professional life. But on Sundays I would go Pioneering, the term used for the missionary work that Jehovah's Witnesses do. And it was then that I was able to see the magic of other people's childhood.
Since I was already a celebrity, I would have to don a disguise of fat suit, wig, beard and glasses and we would spend the day in the suburbs of Southern California, going door-to-door or making the rounds of shopping malls, distributing our Watchtower magazine. I loved to set foot in all those regular suburban houses and catch sight of the shag rugs and La-Z-Boy armchairs with kids playing Monopoly and grandmas baby-sitting and all those wonderful, ordinary and starry scenes of everyday life. Many, I know, would argue that these things seem like no big deal. But to me they were mesmerising.
I used to think that I was unique in feeling that I was without a childhood. I believed that indeed there were only a handful with whom I could share those feelings. When I recently met with Shirley Temple Black, the great child star of the 1930s and 40s, we said nothing to each other at first, we simply cried together, for she could share a pain with me that only others like my close friends Elizabeth Taylor and McCauley Culkin know.

*Onmyknervz*

11-25-2009, 11:11 PM

Oxford University, March 2001 by Michael Jackson

I do not tell you this to gain your sympathy but to impress upon you my first important point : It is not just Hollywood child stars that have suffered from a non-existent childhood. Today, it's a universal calamity, a global catastrophe. Childhood has become the great casualty of modern-day living. All around us we are producing scores of kids who have not had the joy, who have not been accorded the right, who have not been allowed the freedom, or knowing what it's like to be a kid.
Today children are constantly encouraged to grow up faster, as if this period known as childhood is a burdensome stage, to be endured and ushered through, as swiftly as possible. And on that subject, I am certainly one of the world's greatest experts.
Ours is a generation that has witnessed the abrogation of the parent-child covenant. Psychologists are publishing libraries of books detailing the destructive effects of denying one's children the unconditional love that is so necessary to the healthy development of their minds and character. And because of all the neglect, too many of our kids have, essentially, to raise themselves. They are growing more distant from their parents, grandparents and other family members, as all around us the indestructible bond that once glued together the generations, unravels.
This violation has bred a new generation, Generation O let us call it, that has now picked up the torch from Generation X. The O stands for a generation that has everything on the outside - wealth, success, fancy clothing and fancy cars, but an aching emptiness on the inside. That cavity in our chests, that barrenness at our core, that void in our centre is the place where the heart once beat and which love once occupied.
And it's not just the kids who are suffering. It's the parents as well. For the more we cultivate little-adults in kids'-bodies, the more removed we ourselves become from our own child-like qualities, and there is so much about being a child that is worth retaining in adult life.
Love, ladies and gentlemen, is the human family's most precious legacy, its richest bequest, its golden inheritance. And it is a treasure that is handed down from one generation to another. Previous ages may not have had the wealth we enjoy. Their houses may have lacked electricity, and they squeezed their many kids into small homes without central heating. But those homes had no darkness, nor were they cold. They were lit bright with the glow of love and they were warmed snugly by the very heat of the human heart. Parents, undistracted by the lust for luxury and status, accorded their children primacy in their lives.
As you all know, our two countries broke from each other over what Thomas Jefferson referred to as "certain inalienable rights". And while we Americans and British might dispute the justice of his claims, what has never been in dispute is that children have certain inalienable rights, and the gradual erosion of those rights has led to scores of children worldwide being denied the joys and security of childhood.
I would therefore like to propose tonight that we install in every home a Children's Universal Bill of Rights, the tenets of which are:
1. The right to be loved without having to earn it
2. The right to be protected, without having to deserve it
3. The right to feel valuable, even if you came into the world with nothing
4. The right to be listened to without having to be interesting
5. The right to be read a bedtime story, without having to compete with the evening news
6. The right to an education without having to dodge bullets at schools
7. The right to be thought of as adorable - (even if you have a face that only a mother could love).
Friends, the foundation of all human knowledge, the beginning of human consciousness, must be that each and every one of us is an object of love. Before you know if you have red hair or brown, before you know if you are black or white, before you know of what religion you are a part, you have to know that you are loved.

*Onmyknervz*

11-25-2009, 11:14 PM

B]Oxford University, March 2001 by Michael Jackson[/B]

About twelve years ago, when I was just about to start my Bad tour, a little boy came with his parents to visit me at home in California. He was dying of cancer and he told me how much he loved my music and me. His parents told me that he wasn't going to live, that any day he could just go, and I said to him: "Look, I am going to be coming to your town in Kansas to open my tour in three months. I want you to come to the show. I am going to give you this jacket that I wore in one of my videos." His eyes lit up and he said: "You are gonna GIVE it to me?" I said "Yeah, but you have to promise that you will wear it to the show." I was trying to make him hold on. I said: "When you come to the show I want to see you in this jacket and in this glove" and I gave him one of my rhinestone gloves - and I never usually give the rhinestone gloves away. And he was just in heaven.
But maybe he was too close to heaven, because when I came to his town, he had already died, and they had buried him in the glove and jacket. He was just 10 years old. God knows, I know, that he tried his best to hold on. But at least when he died, he knew that he was loved, not only by his parents, but even by me, a near stranger, I also loved him. And with all of that love he knew that he didn't come into this world alone, and he certainly didn't leave it alone.
If you enter this world knowing you are loved and you leave this world knowing the same, then everything that happens in between can he dealt with. A professor may degrade you, but you will not feel degraded, a boss may crush you, but you will not be crushed, a corporate gladiator might vanquish you, but you will still triumph. How could any of them truly prevail in pulling you down? For you know that you are an object worthy of love. The rest is just packaging.
But if you don't have that memory of being loved, you are condemned to search the world for something to fill you up. But no matter how much money you make or how famous you become, you will still fell empty. What you are really searching for is unconditional love, unqualified acceptance. And that was the one thing that was denied to you at birth.
Friends, let me paint a picture for you. Here is a typical day in America - six youths under the age of 20 will commit suicide, 12 children under the age of 20 will die from firearms - remember this is a DAY, not a year - 399 kids will be arrested for drug abuse, 1,352 babies will be born to teen mothers. This is happening in one of the richest, most developed countries in the history of the world.
Yes, in my country there is an epidemic of violence that parallels no other industrialised nation. These are the ways young people in America express their hurt and their anger. But don't think that there is not the same pain and anguish among their counterparts in the United Kingdom. Studies in this country show that every single hour, three teenagers in the UK inflict harm upon themselves, often by cutting or burning their bodies or taking an overdose. This is how they have chosen to cope with the pain of neglect and emotional agony.
In Britain, as many as 20% of families will only sit down and have dinner together once a year. Once a year! And what about the time-honoured tradition of reading your kid a bedtime story? Research from the 1980s showed that children who are read to, had far greater literacy and significantly outperformed their peers at school. And yet, less than 33% of British children ages two to eight have a regular bedtime story read to them. You may not think much of that until you take into account that 75% of their parents DID have that bedtime story when they were that age.
Clearly, we do not have to ask ourselves where all of this pain, anger and violent behaviour comes from. It is self-evident that children are thundering against the neglect, quaking against the indifference and crying out just to be noticed. The various child protection agencies in the US say that millions of children are victims of maltreatment in the form of neglect, in the average year. Yes, neglect. In rich homes, privileged homes, wired to the hilt with every electronic gadget. Homes where parents come home, but they're not really home, because their heads are still at the office. And their kids? Well, their kids just make do with whatever emotional crumbs they get. And you don't get much from endless TV, computer games and videos.
These hard, cold numbers which for me, wrench the soul and shake the spirit, should indicate to you why I have devoted so much of my time and resources into making our new Heal the Kids initiative a colossal success.
Our goal is simple - to recreate the parent/child bond, renew its promise and light the way forward for all the beautiful children who are destined one day to walk this earth.
But since this is my first public lecture, and you have so warmly welcomed me into your hearts, I feel that I want to tell you more. We each have our own story, and in that sense statistics can become personal.

*Onmyknervz*

11-25-2009, 11:17 PM

Oxford University, March 2001 by Michael Jackson

But since this is my first public lecture, and you have so warmly welcomed me into your hearts, I feel that I want to tell you more. We each have our own story, and in that sense statistics can become personal.
They say that parenting is like dancing. You take one step, your child takes another. I have discovered that getting parents to re-dedicate themselves to their children is only half the story. The other half is preparing the children to re-accept their parents.
When I was very young I remember that we had this crazy mutt of a dog named "Black Girl," a mix of wolf and retriever. Not only wasn't she much of a guard dog, she was such a scared and nervous thing that it is a wonder she did not pass out every time a truck rumbled by, or a thunderstorm swept through Indiana. My sister Janet and I gave that dog so much love, but we never really won back the sense of trust that had been stolen from her by her previous owner. We knew he used to beat her. We didn't know with what. But whatever it was, it was enough to suck the spirit right out of that dog.
A lot of kids today are hurt puppies who have weaned themselves off the need for love. They couldn't care less about their parents. Left to their own devices, they cherish their independence. They have moved on and have left their parents behind.
Then there are the far worse cases of children who harbour animosity and resentment toward their parents, so that any overture that their parents might undertake would be thrown forcefully back in their face.
Tonight, I don't want any of us to make this mistake. That's why I'm calling upon all the world's children - beginning with all of us here tonight - to forgive our parents, if we felt neglected. Forgive them and teach them how to love again.
You probably weren't surprised to hear that I did not have an idyllic childhood. The strain and tension that exists in my relationship with my own father is well documented. My father is a tough man and he pushed my brothers and me hard, from the earliest age, to be the best performers we could be.
He had great difficulty showing affection. He never really told me he loved me. And he never really complimented me either. If I did a great show, he would tell me it was a good show. And if I did an OK show, he told me it was a lousy show.
He seemed intent, above all else, on making us a commercial success. And at that he was more than adept. My father was a managerial genius and my brothers and I owe our professional success, in no small measure, to the forceful way that he pushed us. He trained me as a showman and under his guidance I couldn't miss a step.
But what I really wanted was a Dad. I wanted a father who showed me love. And my father never did that. He never said I love you while looking me straight in the eye, he never played a game with me. He never gave me a piggyback ride, he never threw a pillow at me, or a water balloon.
But I remember once when I was about four years old, there was a little carnival and he picked me up and put me on a pony. It was a tiny gesture, probably something he forgot five minutes later. But because of that moment I have this special place in my heart for him. Because that's how kids are, the little things mean so much to them and for me, that one moment meant everything. I only experienced it that one time, but it made me feel really good, about him and the world.

*Onmyknervz*

11-25-2009, 11:19 PM

Oxford University, March 2001 by Michael Jackson

But now I am a father myself, and one day I was thinking about my own children, Prince and Paris and how I wanted them to think of me when they grow up. To be sure, I would like them to remember how I always wanted them with me wherever I went, how I always tried to put them before everything else. But there are also challenges in their lives. Because my kids are stalked by paparazzi, they can't always go to a park or a movie with me.
So what if they grow older and resent me, and how my choices impacted their youth? Why weren't we given an average childhood like all the other kids, they might ask? And at that moment I pray that my children will give me the benefit of the doubt. That they will say to themselves: "Our daddy did the best he could, given the unique circumstances that he faced. He may not have been perfect, but he was a warm and decent man, who tried to give us all the love in the world."
I hope that they will always focus on the positive things, on the sacrifices I willingly made for them, and not criticise the things they had to give up, or the errors I've made, and will certainly continue to make, in raising them. For we have all been someone's child, and we know that despite the very best of plans and efforts, mistakes will always occur. That's just being human.
And when I think about this, of how I hope that my children will not judge me unkindly, and will forgive my shortcomings, I am forced to think of my own father and despite my earlier denials, I am forced to admit that me must have loved me. He did love me, and I know that.
There were little things that showed it. When I was a kid I had a real sweet tooth - we all did. My favourite food was glazed doughnuts and my father knew that. So every few weeks I would come downstairs in the morning and there on the kitchen counter was a bag of glazed doughnuts - no note, no explanation - just the doughnuts. It was like Santa Claus.
Sometimes I would think about staying up late at night, so I could see him leave them there, but just like with Santa Claus, I didn't want to ruin the magic for fear that he would never do it again. My father had to leave them secretly at night, so as no one might catch him with his guard down. He was scared of human emotion, he didn't understand it or know how to deal with it. But he did know doughnuts.
And when I allow the floodgates to open up, there are other memories that come rushing back, memories of other tiny gestures, however imperfect, that showed that he did what he could. So tonight, rather than focusing on what my father didn't do, I want to focus on all the things he did do and on his own personal challenges. I want to stop judging him.
I have started reflecting on the fact that my father grew up in the South, in a very poor family. He came of age during the Depression and his own father, who struggled to feed his children, showed little affection towards his family and raised my father and his siblings with an iron fist. Who could have imagined what it was like to grow up a poor black man in the South, robbed of dignity, bereft of hope, struggling to become a man in a world that saw my father as subordinate. I was the first black artist to be played on MTV and I remember how big a deal it was even then. And that was in the 80s!
My father moved to Indiana and had a large family of his own, working long hours in the steel mills, work that kills the lungs and humbles the spirit, all to support his family. Is it any wonder that he found it difficult to expose his feelings? Is it any mystery that he hardened his heart, that he raised the emotional ramparts? And most of all, is it any wonder why he pushed his sons so hard to succeed as performers, so that they could be saved from what he knew to be a life of indignity and poverty?
I have begun to see that even my father's harshness was a kind of love, an imperfect love, to be sure, but love nonetheless. He pushed me because he loved me. Because he wanted no man ever to look down at his offspring.
And now with time, rather than bitterness, I feel blessing. In the place of anger, I have found absolution. And in the place of revenge I have found reconciliation. And my initial fury has slowly given way to forgiveness.

*Onmyknervz*

11-25-2009, 11:21 PM

Oxford University, March 2001 by Michael Jackson

Almost a decade ago, I founded a charity called Heal the World. The title was something I felt inside me. Little did I know, as Shmuley later pointed out, that those two words form the cornerstone of Old Testament prophecy. Do I really believe that we can heal this world, that is riddled with war and genocide, even today? And do I really think that we can heal our children, the same children who can enter their schools with guns and hatred and shoot down their classmates, like they did at Columbine? Or children who can beat a defenceless toddler to death, like the tragic story of Jamie Bulger? Of course I do, or I wouldn't be here tonight.
But it all begins with forgiveness, because to heal the world, we first have to heal ourselves. And to heal the kids, we first have to heal the child within, each and every one of us. As an adult, and as a parent, I realise that I cannot be a whole human being, nor a parent capable of unconditional love, until I put to rest the ghosts of my own childhood.
And that's what I'm asking all of us to do tonight. Live up to the fifth of the Ten Commandments. Honour your parents by not judging them. Give them the benefit of the doubt.
That is why I want to forgive my father and to stop judging him. I want to forgive my father, because I want a father, and this is the only one that I've got. I want the weight of my past lifted from my shoulders and I want to be free to step into a new relationship with my father, for the rest of my life, unhindered by the goblins of the past.
In a world filled with hate, we must still dare to hope. In a world filled with anger, we must still dare to comfort. In a world filled with despair, we must still dare to dream. And in a world filled with distrust, we must still dare to believe.
To all of you tonight who feel let down by your parents, I ask you to let down your disappointment. To all of you tonight who feel cheated by your fathers or mothers, I ask you not to cheat yourself further. And to all of you who wish to push your parents away, I ask you to extend you hand to them instead. I am asking you, I am asking myself, to give our parents the gift of unconditional love, so that they too may learn how to love from us, their children. So that love will finally be restored to a desolate and lonely world.
Shmuley once mentioned to me an ancient Biblical prophecy which says that a new world and a new time would come, when "the hearts of the parents would be restored through the hearts of their children". My friends, we are that world, we are those children.
Mahatma Gandhi said: "The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong." Tonight, be strong. Beyond being strong, rise to the greatest challenge of all - to restore that broken covenant. We must all overcome whatever crippling effects our childhoods may have had on our lives and in the words of Jesse Jackson, forgive each other, redeem each other and move on.
This call for forgiveness may not result in Oprah moments the world over, with thousands of children making up with their parents, but it will at least be a start, and we'll all be so much happier as a result.
And so ladies and gentlemen, I conclude my remarks tonight with faith, joy and excitement.
From this day forward, may a new song be heard.
Let that new song be the sound of children laughing.
Let that new song be the sound of children playing.
Let that new song be the sound of children singing.
And let that new song be the sound of parents listening.
Together, let us create a symphony of hearts, marvelling at the miracle of our children and basking in the beauty of love.
Let us heal the world and blight its pain.
And may we all make beautiful music together.
God bless you, and I love you.

*Onmyknervz*

11-26-2009, 11:39 AM

I hope Doctor Murray and his family are having a Happy Thanksgiving as well. He has opened his practice again and that is a reason for them to give thanks.

I wonder which wife, mistress, or girlfriend he is having Thanksgiving with.

*Onmyknervz*

11-26-2009, 11:41 AM

I hope the kids aren't having to pay for it.

They don't celebrate Thanksgiving.

*Onmyknervz*

11-26-2009, 12:02 PM

Whoever he wants.

You know... you are free to open a Conrad Murray thread if you want to praise him. I think it's in poor taste to come onto the MJ thread and wish his killer a happy thanksgiving.

imo...of course.

who_is_it

11-26-2009, 02:23 PM

Jermaine: Suicide Proves MJ Didn't Molest

"Jermaine Jackson came out swinging at an event at the Magic Johnson theater in L.A. yesterday, claiming the 1993 molestation accusations against his brother were false ... and the suicide of the accuser's dad proves it.

Jermaine -- who spoke at a Michael Jackson charity event -- said the accuser's dad could not live with a guilty conscience and that's why he killed himself. Jermaine also latched onto Internet rumors that the accuser himself said Jackson didn't touch him.

Michael Jackson settled the '93 case by anteing up $20 million.

FYI -- the MJ stuff happens around 2:15 into the clip."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/11/26/jermaine-jackson-michael-jackson-molestation-suicide-jordan-chandler-evan/

I don't think the way Jermaine spoke out was a smart move. Reasons:

- I don't believe EC committed suicide because of a bad conscience. I think he killed himself because he was lonely (estranged from his son) and because he was ill.

- Jermaine refers to a HOAX. JC never spoke out. Why the heck can't he give FACTUAL INFORMATION about the 1993 allegations which would really PROVE Michael never touched Jordan? There's so much information..., THIS has to be told the public!

Btw, 67% voted the allegations are untrue.

I bet the 67 - 33 result will turn TMZ on to come up with sensational news about the allegations again. I don't have a high opinion about TMZ anymore.

*Onmyknervz*

11-26-2009, 05:26 PM

I think Jermaine should just zip it. Nothing good ever follows when that man opens his mouth. Sheesh.

I kinda agree with you. I also thought he sounded bad when he was accepting Michael's award, and thanked him in his acceptance speech. It was like he forgot that he wasn't winning the award, Michael was.

Happy Thanksgiving SayItAgain!
:loveeyes:

*Onmyknervz*

11-26-2009, 07:14 PM

Michael Jackson - I'll Be There

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE0iDkqIUDQ&feature=related

RootBeer

11-26-2009, 08:01 PM

check your stations, here it is on TVONE, it starts again in a few minutes.

enjoy :thumbup:

RootBeer

11-26-2009, 08:02 PM

I'm wondering how Katherine is balancing the fact her religion doesn't celebrate holidays with the fact Michael and his children, did. :huh:

Very good question.

Firehead11

11-26-2009, 08:09 PM

Very good question.

Do all of the kids follow her religion? I am hoping that Dame Taylor gets involved with a Christmas for them at least.

who_is_it

11-26-2009, 11:22 PM

I think Jermaine should just zip it. Nothing good ever follows when that man opens his mouth. Sheesh.

Absolutely, you're right.

daniel green

11-26-2009, 11:34 PM

Despite promises that Joe Jackson would rarely be involved with Michael's children -- that was part of the agreement that allowed them to live with granny Katherine Jackson -- Prince, Paris and Blanket went to Las Vegas for Thanksgiving, with none other than Joe as chaperone. Also alone for the holiday jaunt were some of Jermaine's kids.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/11/michael-jacksons-kids-spend-thanksgiving-las-vegas-granddad-joe

daniel green

11-27-2009, 12:45 AM

Hmm. Assuming the article is factual ... as I've said (and said and said and said, yawn) ... snipped

There are pictures of them at the link.

*Onmyknervz*

11-27-2009, 01:13 AM

Eat It

How come you're always such a fussy young man
Don't want no Cap'n Crunch, don't want no Raisin Bran
Well don't you know that other kids are starvin' in Japan
So eat it, just eat it

Don't want to argue, I don't want to debate
Don't want to hear about what kinds of foods you hate
You won't get no dessert 'till you clean off you're plate
So eat it

Don't you tell me you're full
Just eat it... eat it
Get yourself an egg and beat it

Have some more chicken
Have some more pie
It doesn't matter
If it's boiled or fried

Just eat it, just eat it
Just eat it, just eat it... Woo!

Your table manners are a crying shame
You're playing with your food, this ain't some kind of game
Now, if you starve to death
You'll just have yourself to blame
So eat it. Just eat it.

You better listen, better do as you're told
You haven't even touched your tuna casserole
You better chow down, or it's gonna get cold
So eat it.

I don't care if you're full
Just eat it... eat it
Open up your mouth and feed it

Have some more yogurt
Have some more Spam
It doesn't matter if it's fresh or canned
Just eat it! Eat it! Eat it! Eat it!
Don't you make me repeat it!

Have a banana, have a whole bunch
It doesn't matter what you had for lunch

Just eat it! Eat it!
Eat it! Eat it!
Eat it! Eat it!
If it's too cold, reheat it

Have a big dinner. Have a light snack
If you don't like it, you can't send it back

Just eat it! Eat it!
Get yourself an egg and beat it!

Have some more chicken. Have some more pie
It doesn't matter if it's boiled or fried

Just eat it! Eat it!
Don't you make me repeat it!

http://www.mtv.com/videos/weird-al-yankovic/111231/eat-it.jhtml

Firehead11

11-27-2009, 09:27 AM

Hmm. Assuming the article is factual ... as I've said (and said and said and said, yawn) ... K and J are still married, and while they may maintain separate households, Joe is still very much a member of the clan, judging from all I've seen.

We know Rebbie lives in Vegas, but somehow, I don't think anyone stands up to Joe, which means no one runs interference when he gets out of line.

Hopefully, he's way (way) past his prime when it comes to trying to create a new Jackson kid dynasty. Yikes.

And where is Jermaine if his kids are in Vegas? :confused:

Hopefully, the children spent time with Rebbie. Maybe she celebrates the holidays.

Cindylee

11-27-2009, 10:43 AM

Maybe Joe thinks if he takes the kids once in awhile, he can get some of that money he is looking for.

Firehead11

11-27-2009, 11:10 AM

Maybe Joe thinks if he takes the kids once in awhile, he can get some of that money he is looking for.

Nah........ He might try using that excuse though........

Firehead11

11-27-2009, 01:23 PM

I doubt that Michael did any improvements to a home that was not his. See how the media can twist things to what they wish to show?

EvilEyeBall

11-27-2009, 01:38 PM

There are pictures of them at the link.

Everytime I see pictures of these children ( exception was the memorial service) they appear to have shopped out of a homeless persons shopping cart! Good Grief! BUY THOSE CHILDREN some decent clothes!!!!!!!!!!

wonder how much money Katherine forked over to Joe for this little excusion?

EvilEyeBall

11-27-2009, 01:40 PM

Hmm. Assuming the article is factual ... as I've said (and said and said and said, yawn) ... K and J are still married, and while they may maintain separate households, Joe is still very much a member of the clan, judging from all I've seen.

We know Rebbie lives in Vegas, but somehow, I don't think anyone stands up to Joe, which means no one runs interference when he gets out of line.

Hopefully, he's way (way) past his prime when it comes to trying to create a new Jackson kid dynasty. Yikes.

And where is Jermaine if his kids are in Vegas? :confused:

Jermaine is probably hard at work planning that "concert" with Larry King's wife! har har har

*Onmyknervz*

11-27-2009, 02:37 PM

Conrad Murray cases monitored

Regarding “Jackson doc returns to clinic here” (Page A1, Monday), some people wonder why Dr. Conrad Murray is free to practice medicine in Texas and have asked the Texas Medical Board if he is currently under investigation. State law prohibits the Texas Medical Board from disclosing whether a doctor is under investigation; only final disciplinary actions taken by the board are made public. Murray, like all Texas doctors, is subject to scrutiny as well as entitled to due process as outlined in the law which the board must follow. Developments and final actions in California and Nevada on both a medical-board and criminal-action basis will be monitored as is the current practice of the board.

Irvin E. Zeitler Jr., D.O., Texas Medical Board president

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/6740710.html

*Onmyknervz*

11-27-2009, 03:07 PM

Routine I would say. imo

I guess as routine as Murray killing his patients.
:scared:

daniel green

11-27-2009, 03:16 PM

snippedBUY THOSE CHILDREN some decent clothes!!!!!!!!!!

wonder how much money Katherine forked over to Joe for this little excusion?

I know. Makes me sad that those children are dressed so poorly. :mad:

Firehead11

11-27-2009, 03:25 PM

*Onmyknervz*

11-27-2009, 03:33 PM

Here we go with the clothes again. Have you people noticed how teenagers dress now a days? At least the boys pants are not down around his knees and paris, pants are not so tight to leave nothing to the imagination.

They are prolly wearing what is comfortable for them and intheir age group. Give it a rest already.

I think I remember a group of comments concerning the pictures of the children all dressed up, saying they were posed and scripted. So.. no matter what the kids wear, someone will be their to pass judgment and criticise. As long as they are comfortable and clean, it really doesn't matter.

imo...of course.

Unperson1984

11-27-2009, 04:19 PM

I guess as routine as Murray killing his patients.
:scared:

So you think he should be punished by not allowing him to work before he has been charged, let alone convicted of a crime?

who_is_it

11-27-2009, 05:30 PM

I actually think the kids' clothes are rather refreshing. I don't like the looks of them, necessarily, because nothing seems to match, lol ... but I much prefer Paris' plain slacks, shirt and flipflops to the provocative way many young girls are dressed these days. I like her little watch and the fact she's always carrying something. She seems like a serious, purposeful little soul -- just my impression of her. :smile:

Another reason I find their attire refreshing is because it proves they aren't into the way they look, to the exclusion of everything else, like many kids today. Back "in the day," most of us at their ages didn't give a hoot what we wore, as long as it was reasonably in style and fit.

In some years they will be billionaires who can buy whatever they want to. No need to worry about the kids imo.

who_is_it

11-27-2009, 05:42 PM

I'm sure that's true, but I think you missed my point. :confused:

No, I got it. You meant, the grandparents should buy them nicer clothes.

I could imagine the kids don't care much about clothes NOW at their age. Remember how Lourdes, Madonna's daughter, looked like 2 years ago... and now she's a hip dressed teenager!

*Onmyknervz*

11-27-2009, 05:43 PM

So you think he should be punished by not allowing him to work before he has been charged, let alone convicted of a crime?

Well...thats a tough question. I do have a problem with a doctor actively practicing medicine while being the main focus of a homicide investigation. But I also think that if there is no case against him that the police should make that known, instead of playing games. I don't think its fair for him, or anyone else. I have a bigger problem, I think, with the idea that a doctor can do what Murray is alleged to have done, and it taking 5 months before any medical board investigation is initiated. It seems like there should be some sort of accoutability, regardless of one's profession. I also think its a joke that the only threat to his license stems from failure to pay child support. It defies common sense... at least to me.

And... I think the church publicity stunt was tasteless, and phony. I also think it isn't so wise to state being broke as the reason to practice medicine, especially when we already know how his financial problems seem to impair his judgment and reasoning abilities to the detriment of his patients. I don't think a doctor should be able to practice without malpractice insurance. I'm not allowed to drive a car without insurance.

And finally, with the doctor being so broke, I'd like to know who is paying for his security detail.

Basically I think the Police and DA should make up their minds, and either charge him or not. I guess he should be able to work, but would prefer that he didn't shove it in our faces by inviting the media.

One last thought.... Michael's career and reputation were ruined by false allegations of crimes, and even his acquittal didn't correct that. But just because the public thinks thats okay, I don't think the way to correct it is to do the same thing to someone else.

imo...of course.

*Onmyknervz*

11-27-2009, 05:49 PM

And I remember a comment about not bringing up Doctor Murray on Jackson's holiday thread, however you were the one who brought him again on the very same thread. Just saying of course.

moo

I think I said it was in poor taste to wish a happy thanksgiving on the MJ thread to the person who killed him. The intent in doing so was obvious.

The holiday is over now, sooo...

Unperson1984

11-27-2009, 06:28 PM

Bolded to address. No, that's not what I meant at all. :confused:

I took it to mean someone needs to teach them how to dress appropriately, and I would agree. MJ had an impeccable sense of style, but his children need to dress a bit more neatly.

IMO

Firehead11

11-27-2009, 06:52 PM

In the older days, people wore clothes that fit and went together. How many of us were told, you don't wear pink with red, plaids with stripes, white shoes or pants after labor day? Now a days, I am a happy camper when a waitress doesn't need two hair nets to serve a dinner or there are no plumbers cracks showing.

:scared:

Firehead11

11-27-2009, 07:10 PM

IMO their hair doesn't look clean to me. I didn't see Blanket there.

Well Sam, frankly, IMO, you seem to find negative in anything Jackson.

Can you name ONE thing that you feel that Jackson or his children have done right?

Firehead11

11-27-2009, 07:11 PM

Well, okay ... apparently the confusion started with me. :blush:

I was just trying to make the point that they don't seem overly concerned about their appearance, which I find refreshing. I guess I prefer their "who cares" look to the provocative, overly contrived ensembles, hair and makeup I see on a lot of kids these days.

But I agree, they don't yet have Michael's sense of style.

(And with any luck, Jermaine's kids will NEVER adopt his sense of style. :scared:)

I knew what you were saying. They certainly do not look like bums but rather comfortable.

*Onmyknervz*

11-27-2009, 07:21 PM

Firehead11

11-27-2009, 07:22 PM

IMO Jackson was a good entertainer. Not the best, but good. His children have done nothing wrong. If someone isn't helping them pick their clothes to wear or teaching them to clean up properly, that's not their fault. Wnere is that GREAT nanny/mom anyway?

jmo of course

Maybe they are being allowed to express themselves in their choice of clothing? They look like well behaved and clean children to me. I will have to look at the picture again and see where their hair looks so dirty. I woulod imagine Nanny Grace is there with them. Now why did you put the nanny/mom part in? Those children know that Grace isn't their mother.

EvilEyeBall

11-27-2009, 07:28 PM

Here we go with the clothes again. Have you people noticed how teenagers dress now a days? At least the boys pants are not down around his knees and paris, pants are not so tight to leave nothing to the imagination.

They are prolly wearing what is comfortable for them and intheir age group. Give it a rest already.

Oh please...I have an 11 year old son. He and his friends neither wear their pants below their butts or skin tight. They dress in style, they match and look like someone loves them. The same can't be said about MJ's children. They always look like they dressed in the dark and just grabbed whatever old thing they found........in that homeless person's shopping cart.

EvilEyeBall

11-27-2009, 07:32 PM

Well Sam, frankly, IMO, you seem to find negative in anything Jackson.

Can you name ONE thing that you feel that Jackson or his children have done right?

I don't think his child have done anything wrong.

I feel their guardian needs to take them shopping and buy some decent clothes. Did you see what Katherine put down for clothing expenses for HERSELF?

Firehead11

11-27-2009, 07:45 PM

The clothing looks fine to me and their hair looks clean.

*Onmyknervz*

11-27-2009, 07:59 PM

MJ had impeccable style? No, I don't think so.

Part of his success was his look. I think in private he just dressed normal. His kids should be able to wear what they want without being picked apart.

imo...of course.

*Onmyknervz*

11-27-2009, 08:41 PM

I think in private he wore his Peter Pan outfit.:biggrin:

imo of course

You also thought the kids hair looked dirty in the pictures.
:rolleyes:

daniel green

11-28-2009, 12:36 AM

I said above they look normal to me. Maybe some are not around children this age? snipped:

I sure am, including my own kids, and I do find it sad that Mrs Jackson is not buying them regular clothes, nice things, that other kids wear and which would make the children more comfortable.

MJ left all that money for his children and Mrs Jackson is getting plenty of money for her own wardrobe. This is nothing against the children in the least.

It is something I would think MJ would have wanted for his children. And certainly wrote a will providing them with enough money to do so.

daniel green

11-28-2009, 12:38 AM

snipped Paris has on an Ed Hardy polo with the "Love Kills" insignia (3 of 4 and Prince has on a wool and leather varsity jacket. Also if you go to Ed Hardy's home page -- LaToya is on it.

You can see the Love Kills insignia better on this backpack:

Exactly, Xenam.

And kids, tweens and teens do not wear Ed Hardy. In fact, other than Jon Gosselin, I don't know anyone who does. :sad:

*Onmyknervz*

11-28-2009, 01:12 AM

I sure am, including my own kids, and I do find it sad that Mrs Jackson is not buying them regular clothes, nice things, that other kids wear and which would make the children more comfortable.

MJ left all that money for his children and Mrs Jackson is getting plenty of money for her own wardrobe. This is nothing against the children in the least.

It is something I would think MJ would have wanted for his children. And certainly wrote a will providing them with enough money to do so.

You really have no idea what clothes have been purchased for the kids. You are passing judgment on issues for which you lack the necessary facts to fairly make a determination. You just assume they are being denied, without any certain knowledge of what the truth is. Maybe they went shopping and this is what the kids picked out. I think they are old enough to not need to be told how to dress. They are grieving, and I sure don't think how they dress is really something they need to deal with now. If members of the public don't like their choice in clothing, thats too bad. Don't look. It's not like they go outside wishing for a photo shoot, they are kids, trying to be kids.

I mean really DanielGreen...how are you in a position to decide what makes them comfortable or not?

Firehead11

11-28-2009, 06:34 AM

who_is_it

11-28-2009, 07:11 AM

ETA: Had to google Jon Gosselin because I had no idea who were you talking about dg. After I looked him up realized he is from that Jon and Kate reality show which I never watched nor did I follow other than tidbits I've seen reported on shows like ET and the name just did not click. He's also 32.

Actually he's kind of old for Ed Hardy since most of the fashion is geared for tweens, teens and early 20's. Not saying anything is wrong with it because I do own two Ed Hardy tees because my daughter bought them for me. :laugh:

Hahaha! I don't know, either, what's behind the daily media presence of Jon Gosselin -- the pics of him and the word "reality show" is just enough for me that no further interest will arise.

I didn't follow what was discussed here about the label Ed Hardy. Just can contribute that Christian Audigier is Michael's friend and fan. There was the rumor they've planned a clothing line. Michael attended Christian Audigier's birthday party. There was another rumor Christian wanted to rent or buy his house (the one where Michael died). Michael had a lot of Ed Hardy clothes which obviously Christian gave to him. I also thought if the black trousers with the crowns which you liked, too, could have been by Ed Hardy.

who_is_it

11-28-2009, 07:30 AM

I think in private he wore his Peter Pan outfit.:biggrin:

imo of course

I've browsed through the items which were auctioned and love love love his old clothes -- specially the jackets.

Michael wasn't as fashionable during his last years.

When watching the movie I thought each time: Why could no one have told him that the jacket he wore when he performed "Human nature" and "Can't stop loving you" looked like ****? Same with the clothes he wore during the soundcheck for "The way you make me feel" (Ed Hardy shirt below black leather jacket). All the other casual clothes he wore during the rehearsals looked very nice imo. He looked extremely young in some of the clothes.

I've watched some old concert and rehearsal clips on youtube. Mike looked younger NOW than 10 years ago. Imo this had to do with clothes but it also seemed he had a lot of confidence in the success of the show. His body language which was insecure during the first rehearsals (orange trousers) improved to a confident aura during the last rehearsals (grey trousers).

To come back to what you wrote what actually should have been a joke: Indeed he's some of Peter Pan because usually older people who try to look young are often ridiculous but Mike succeeded in a way that I sat there with my jaw open.

GentleBreeze

11-28-2009, 10:08 AM

Their father apparently allowed the kids to dress for the occasion.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/SHOWBIZ/06/26/jackson.children.will/art.jackson.kids.courtesy.jpg

http://earsucker.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/new_michael_jackson_family_photo.jpg

What have I missed? What is wrong with the way the children are dressed?

They are individuals not clones and I think it shows they each have the style they like. I think that is absolutely great.

imo

daniel green

11-28-2009, 12:29 PM

?? Wow gotta disagree with you on this. Kids that can afford his clothes absolutely wear them. My children all wore designer clothes and still do. Ed Hardy's clothing line is geared for the very young and he is extremely popular among the young. I don't doubt at all that they are accustomed to wearing them. Ed Hardy was working with MJ too to come up an MJ clothing line.

snipped

I disagree mightely. I know of no kid that age who would be caught dead wearing Ed Hardy. Most kids wear only American Eagle or Hollister, etc.

Ed Hardy is only worn by older guys who think it makes them look young.

*Onmyknervz*

11-28-2009, 12:57 PM

I disagree mightely. I know of no kid that age who would be caught dead wearing Ed Hardy. Most kids wear only American Eagle or Hollister, etc.

Ed Hardy is only worn by older guys who think it makes them look young.

Just because you don't personally know any kids that wear a certain brand of clothing certainly doesn't mean their aren't millions of kids out there who are.

I think here in California, the kids wouldn't be caught dead wearing American Eagle or Hollister. Perhaps its a regional thing.

I'm confident that Ed Hardy clothing wouldn't be a thriving business if Jon Gosselin was the only person wearing the Ed Hardy brand.

imo...of course.

daniel green

11-28-2009, 01:03 PM

I just asked my 14 yr old who says not Hollister or American Eagle now---it's all Urban Outfitters and Forever 21. My 18 yr old said same thing and asked "Ed Hardy, where are they from?" He did add Abrecrombie and Fitch as clothes kids wear. He also added PacSun is big, and he still wears Am Eagles jeans.

*Onmyknervz*

11-28-2009, 01:08 PM

I just asked my 14 yr old who says not Hollister or American Eagle now---it's all Urban Outfitters and Forever 21. My 18 yr old said same thing and asked "Ed Hardy, where are they from?" He did add Abrecrombie and Fitch as clothes kids wear.

Well.. my almost 21 year old daughter just said that if you're rich and superficial ...yeah, you're gonna be wearing that stuff you mention. She has an Ed Hardy lighter. wooohoo

daniel green

11-28-2009, 01:17 PM

Well, we can all argue what our own kids and their friends and their school mates wear, and get nowhere. But if you do a quick google about who wears Ed Hardy, it's pretty clear.

daniel green

11-28-2009, 01:18 PM

Well.. my almost 21 year old daughter just said that if you're rich and superficial ...yeah, you're gonna be wearing that stuff you mention. She has an Ed Hardy lighter. wooohoo

Well, bless her heart, that must be it. My kids are rich and superficial.

*Onmyknervz*

11-28-2009, 01:22 PM

Hey - we are not poor and my kids are not superficial they both have clothing from both. Urban Outfitters has 5 brands IIRC from low to high. Forever21 used to be primarily female but has expanded to include males. I know my daughter shops Forever21 but not my son. It is a chain of boutiques.

Well.. we got a good laugh out of it, but she says she might have been too harsh saying that. Forever21 has moved into all the Mervyn's locations. I hate shopping and would do just about anything to keep from going into one of those stores.

Firehead11

11-28-2009, 01:25 PM

*Onmyknervz*

11-28-2009, 01:26 PM

Well, bless her heart, that must be it. My kids are rich and superficial.

It was posted in fun. I'm sure your kids are fine. But I'll bet if you asked them if they think the Jackson kids look weird or homeless (as another poster suggested) they would say no, they look like normal kids.

*Onmyknervz*

11-28-2009, 01:30 PM

You know, it really doesn't matter what the kids are wearing, they are comfortable and that is all that matters. Just because some posters feel like they are dressing wrong doesn't make it the truth.

The one thing that I agree with Al Sharpton states at the memorial --You Daddy wasn't strange, it was strange what he had to deal with. (Parapharse) and it is really a sad thing to see that his children will be dealing with the same thing.

How sad is that?

I agree. It is unfortunate that they can't go anywhere or do anything without a camera there to take their picture for publication and the masses to spend hours analyzing and criticising. Maybe they are used to it, I don't know.

daniel green

11-28-2009, 01:34 PM

It was posted in fun. I'm sure your kids are fine. But I'll bet if you asked them if they think the Jackson kids look weird or homeless (as another poster suggested) they would say no, they look like normal kids.

They both were in the sunroom eating with my husband, just outside my office and both asked me why I wanted to know. I told them and they both asked to see the picture and both agreed that they hope Mrs Jackson buys them different clothes, especially given the fact that they have a lot of money.

daniel green

11-28-2009, 01:35 PM

My son just told me Ed Hardy is actually on its way out in popularity because too many copycats.

And because it became the clothes worn by "cougars" and dads going through mid-life crises.

Just as with Juicy Couture--faded fast.

*Onmyknervz*

11-28-2009, 01:41 PM

They both were in the sunroom eating with my husband, just outside my office and both asked me why I wanted to know. I told them and they both asked to see the picture and both agreed that they hope Mrs Jackson buys them different clothes, especially given the fact that they have a lot of money.

Well... I don't think all their clothes were lost when their dad died, and they are probably wearing a lot of stuff purchased by their father. I think they are wearing what they have chosen to wear and no one is forcing them to wear or buy things they don't like or want.

*Onmyknervz*

11-28-2009, 01:45 PM

Personally for me I love Ann Taylor. I wear petite and hers just fit me well and I wear Nautica loungewear. LOL :laugh:

I wear t-shirt and jeans, and keds. I used to dress up when I had to for work, but one of the best things about my job now, is no matter how bad I look, there is someone who will look worse than me. haha

Firehead11

11-28-2009, 01:52 PM

*Onmyknervz*

11-28-2009, 02:20 PM

Are you a cleaning lady??

Nah. I work for a IMSA race team and I am the only female there.
:tongue:

*Onmyknervz*

11-28-2009, 02:25 PM

If they want to look like raga muffins in hand me down clothes, so be it. jmo

They are all beautiful children. I love Blanket's long gorgeous hair, and hope he keeps it long. They have a lot to deal with, and they dress fine and appropriate for SoCal/Vegas weather. I doubt they are worrying about mean spirited people who find joy in criticising either themselves or their father.

imo...of course.

*Onmyknervz*

11-28-2009, 02:27 PM

Cool :thumbsup:

I like it a lot.

*Onmyknervz*

11-28-2009, 02:34 PM

Yes, they are beautiful children.

:ohmy: Yes, they are. :thumbup:

EvilEyeBall

11-28-2009, 02:43 PM

I disagree mightely. I know of no kid that age who would be caught dead wearing Ed Hardy. Most kids wear only American Eagle or Hollister, etc.

Ed Hardy is only worn by older guys who think it makes them look young.

I have to agree.

Here it's Abercrombie & Fitch, Hollister, and the hottest & most recent
Aeropostale. BTW I must say I am THRILLED Aeropostale is so hot now.

I also happen to think his children's clothing doesn't fit properly. Prince's shirt is too small, his pants too long ...before Blanket's shoes were too small, his little toes hung over. Paris's shoes were cheap and cheesy. They look unkempt.

When the children were with their dad, even in the "masked days" they were always dressed well.

EvilEyeBall

11-28-2009, 02:45 PM

Yes, they are beautiful children.

Yes, they are.

BTW I was wondering how long it would take for Katherine to cut of Blanket's hair. I am shocked it lasted as long as it did. Katherine and Joe are rather homophobic and hate long hair on boys for that reason. IMO

EvilEyeBall

11-28-2009, 02:54 PM

Abercrombie & Fitch is one my son mentioned but I couldn't spell it. :laugh:

LOL I had to look it up to be sure! LOL

My son and I were at the mall this morning. I was shocked how empty it was. Aeropostale was the only busy store with LINES! Says a lot about the state of the economy! My son found a winter jacket he wants there ...for $50.00 the almost identical jacket at Abercrombie...$200.00!

WHEW! Glad Aeropostale is all the rage!

EvilEyeBall

11-28-2009, 02:55 PM

Abercrombie & Fitch is one my son mentioned but I couldn't spell it. :laugh:

I'm lucky again. My son will be 12 next month but takes an adult small at both stores! WHOOO HOOOO

daniel green

11-28-2009, 03:05 PM

I have to agree.

Here it's Abercrombie & Fitch, Hollister, and the hottest & most recent
Aeropostale. BTW I must say I am THRILLED Aeropostale is so hot now.

I also happen to think his children's clothing doesn't fit properly. Prince's shirt is too small, his pants too long ...before Blanket's shoes were too small, his little toes hung over. Paris's shoes were cheap and cheesy. They look unkempt.

When the children were with their dad, even in the "masked days" they were always dressed well.

I just asked my 14 yr old who says not Hollister or American Eagle now---it's all Urban Outfitters and Forever 21. My 18 yr old said same thing and asked "Ed Hardy, where are they from?" He did add Abrecrombie and Fitch as clothes kids wear. He also added PacSun is big, and he still wears Am Eagles jeans.

My son has worn A&F since he was in 2d grade--remember the zip off shorts/pants? I remember in 2d grade, it was the first time he ever asked for an item of clothing--pointed to what a boy in his class was wearing and said he wanted them. Gosh, he loved those things.

Prince's clothes do look like hand-me-downs. :sad:

.

EvilEyeBall

11-28-2009, 03:06 PM

I know. A&F prices are ridiculous but my son is in college and working too so if that's how he wants to spend HIS money ....... I still give him money for clothing but he knows I refuse to spend $198.00 for a pair of jeans. My money just supplements his. As far as I am concerned he doesn't need any more clothes. He also buys sneakers that matches his tees. He is nuts. I thought women were bad but ........ :ohmy:

LOL Mine is the same way with clothes and his sneakers. My husband teased him and calls him Mr. GQ. He's the only kid I know that buys his own lint brush! roflmao!!! He hates hair and fuzz on his clothes. We have two dogs and two cats...IMO No outfit is complete without a little hair. LOL The only thing he wants for Christmas is clothes! ( As a child and even now I STILL hate getting clothes for a gift)

I don't think I would mind as much, if he would just STOP growing! Clothes bought prior to the start of school almost all need to be replaced by Christmas!

Cindylee

11-28-2009, 03:12 PM

EvilEyeBall

11-28-2009, 03:14 PM

My son has worn A&F since he was in 2d grade--remember the zip off shorts/pants? I remember in 2d grade, it was the first time he ever asked for an item of clothing--pointed to what a boy in his class was wearing and said he wanted them. Gosh, he loved those things.

Prince's clothes do look like hand-me-downs. :sad:

.

I do remember those shorts! My son had the knock offs! lol

Back when my son was little I never shopped at A&F! Didn't start shopping there until he 9 and begged!

I think the children either have zero fashion sense, or Katherine just doesn't bother care or bother taking them shopping.

More times than not I just walk in and buy the whole outfit on the mannequin. So really, in my mind...there is no excuse.

EvilEyeBall

11-28-2009, 03:15 PM

They did have his hair cut?????

Looked that way to me on the radaronline website

Cindylee

11-28-2009, 03:39 PM

Looked that way to me on the radaronline website

If you are talking about the Vegas pics, I only saw Prince and Paris. :confused:

daniel green

11-28-2009, 03:41 PM

Prince's hair looks much shorter. But I have not seen any pics of Blanket.

*Onmyknervz*

11-28-2009, 04:10 PM

Yes, they are.

BTW I was wondering how long it would take for Katherine to cut of Blanket's hair. I am shocked it lasted as long as it did. Katherine and Joe are rather homophobic and hate long hair on boys for that reason. IMO

I don't think Blanket's hair has been cut. And I really am curious how on earth you would know if K & J hate long hair on boys, or why?
Huge :rolleyes:

EvilEyeBall

11-28-2009, 07:40 PM

I don't think Blanket's hair has been cut. And I really am curious how on earth you would know if K & J hate long hair on boys, or why?
Huge :rolleyes:

I'd rather not say

EvilEyeBall

11-28-2009, 07:42 PM

If you are talking about the Vegas pics, I only saw Prince and Paris. :confused:

I can't find the pics I viewed earlier. But Blanket was there as well....along with anther little boy about the same size. They appeared to be goofing around both children were in katate like stances. Unless his hair was pulled back in a pony & braided...it was cut.

*Onmyknervz*

11-28-2009, 07:46 PM

I'd rather not say

Thats understandable.

who_is_it

11-28-2009, 09:22 PM

Could someone let me know: Why did Michael wear tape on his fingers? -- He did in the "This is it" movie. I then remembered he had white tapes on his fingers on older pics, too.

who_is_it

11-28-2009, 09:32 PM

video:
Maybe Michael Jackson with girlfriend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmAzDTKCMiM

Imo it REALLY looks as if there's something going on... I don't what is meant by "maybe": if it's unclear if the person is Michael Jackson or if it's unclear if she could have been his girlfriend.

Cindylee

11-28-2009, 09:44 PM

*Onmyknervz*

11-28-2009, 09:45 PM

Could someone let me know: Why did Michael wear tape on his fingers? -- He did in the "This is it" movie. I then remembered he had white tapes on his fingers on older pics, too.

He wanted his entire audience, no matter where seated to be able to see his fingertips, and the white tape made that possible.

who_is_it

11-28-2009, 09:50 PM

He wanted his entire audience, no matter where seated to be able to see his fingertips, and the white tape made that possible.

But what for? A fashionable gimmick? Or did it fulfill any purpose (for example that he could better hold the mic)?

who_is_it

11-28-2009, 09:52 PM

Yes, how would anyone know that was MJ? Could be anyone with the mask on. :shrug:

The body, the disguise, the bodyguards and the car look Jackson-like imo. But for sure it could have been anyone with a mask who wants to pretend to be Michael Jackson.

*Onmyknervz*

11-30-2009, 12:00 PM

Decision on criminal charges in Michael Jackson case 'months' away

Prosecutors and police investigators don't expect to file charges in connection with Michael Jackson's death before 2010, law enforcement officials told The Times.

The officials said there is such much evidence to review -- some of it complex medical data -- and that they have sought the help of outside medical experts.

A decision on whether to file criminal charges is "months rather than weeks away," one source said.

Dr. Conrad Murray, Jackson's personal physician who provided him with the anesthetic propofol that coroner's officials say killed the pop singer, has been identified as a suspect in a manslaughter investigation in search warrants and remains the focus of the probe.

The investigation has resulted in large quantities of information that need to be carefully reviewed not only by LAPD detectives, but also prosecutors and some outside medical advisers before a final decision is made on how to proceed in the case, according to sources familiar with the investigation. They spoke to The Times on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing.

With no suspects in custody, those familiar with the probe compare the Jackson case to the investigation of music producer Phil Spector, which took more than a year before prosecutors decided to file charges.

Murray has denied repeatedly any wrongdoing and insists he gave then-appropriate medical aid when he found Jackson's distressed and not breathing. His attorney has stressed that Murray is fully cooperating with authorities.

The Los Angeles County district attorney's office already has had Murray's girlfriend Nicole Alvarez testify before a grand jury panel, according to sources.

The Los Angeles County coroner's office determined that Jackson died from "acute propofol intoxication" combined with sedatives and labeled his death a homicide.

The complexity of the medical evidence in the case has lead LAPD Robbery Homicide Division detectives and a prosecutor who is virtually embedded with them to seek several medical opinions in addition to the coroner's officials' on Jackson's death, according to two sources.

Murray, 56, told detectives that he administered the anesthetic propofol and other medications to Jackson before the pop star's death June 25, according to search warrants in the investigation. Five bottles of the anesthetic were purchased in Nevada from Applied Pharmacy by Murray, who had it shipped to California, according to search warrants in the investigation.

Some of those bottles were found in Jackson's rented Holmby Hills mansion, according to search-warrant affidavits. Propofol is usually used in medical settings by anesthesia professionals to make patients unconscious for surgery.

The physician told police Jackson was dependent on propofol to sleep and that he was trying to wean the singer off the drug.

Murray last week went back to work at his Houston medical office.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef012875f14a8b970c-pi

daniel green

11-30-2009, 01:40 PM

[
The complexity of the medical evidence in the case has lead LAPD Robbery Homicide Division detectives and a prosecutor who is virtually embedded with them to seek several medical opinions in addition to the coroner's officials' on Jackson's death, according to two sources.

snipped

Extremely problematic.

*Onmyknervz*

11-30-2009, 02:13 PM

Extremely problematic.

I have yet to hear a single medical opinion that favors Dr. Murray. Have you?

daniel green

11-30-2009, 02:29 PM

I have yet to hear a single medical opinion that favors Dr. Murray. Have you?

That's not the point.

If there is a need for several experts to try to get it past the DA, getting it past a jury is problematic.

Firehead11

11-30-2009, 02:52 PM

I am willing to wait for the DA to gather enough evidence to convict Murray. Meanwhile, I would think that JB is looking into how the doctors contributed to Jacksons addiction.

Firehead11

11-30-2009, 03:05 PM

TMZ has obtained the 911 call made by a photographer who claims some rabid Michael Jackson fans attacked him with a bat earlier this month ... an incident the photog blames on a lawsuit he recently filed against Debbie Rowe.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/11/30/debbie-rowe-photog-911-attacked-with-a-bat/

Isn't that a hoot. Why would any Jackson fan attack a photog because he is suing Debbie Rowe? My opinion.... the photog is using the Jackson connection to further his own fame.... :thumbdown:

who_is_it

12-01-2009, 04:16 PM

Isn't that a hoot. Why would any Jackson fan attack a photog because he is suing Debbie Rowe? My opinion.... the photog is using the Jackson connection to further his own fame.... :thumbdown:

DR is a celeb by former association... but in general I get so angry if I read photogs sue celebs.

If they can't respect that the celebs don't want to be photographed they don't have to wonder about any aggressive reactions.

Britney was sued by a photog because she roll over his foot by car. The idiots should move out of the way..., then this doesn't happen.

Firehead11

12-01-2009, 04:39 PM

DR is a celeb by former association... but in general I get so angry if I read photogs sue celebs.

If they can't respect that the celebs don't want to be photographed they don't have to wonder about any aggressive reactions.

Britney was sued by a photog because she roll over his foot by car. The idiots should move out of the way..., then this doesn't happen.

Did you see where the DVD is going to be released in Jan?

Cindylee

12-01-2009, 05:18 PM

Alleged MJ Lovechild Won't Accept Rejection

Posted Dec 1st 2009 2:47PM by TMZ Staff

Prince Michael Malachi Jet Jackson -- the 24-year-old who claims to be MJ's lovechild -- is going back to court in the hopes of getting a slice of Jacko's fortune, even though he was already rejected by the people who run MJ's estate.

PMMJJ just filed "objections of rejection" paperwork in L.A. County Superior Court, in which he begs a judge to "have determined that he is the biological son of decedent Michael Joseph Jackson ... and gain whatever benefits he is entitled to."

The Jackson estate had rejected PMMJJ's claim back in August, even though he provided a California birth certificate which lists Michael Joseph Jackson as his father.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0YThvFi4l

daniel green

12-01-2009, 06:32 PM

I think it is re: how the diprivan was used and the fact it was being used in the home as well. There is no precedent here which makes it even more difficult. JMO

Yeah, it's a very difficult thing. I agree.

LadyFuzz

12-02-2009, 12:13 PM

In all fairness he should be allowed to take a DNA test. I suppose any name can be placed on a birth certificate provided it is stated at birth. If it turns out it is his son I do hope he gets something out of KJ's 40% and if not then at least he can put it to rest. JMO

He can take a DNA test on his own and submit it to the court can't he? I mean, of course, if he is the biological child of Jackson. I guess the sticking point is he wants the estate to pay for the test since the tests are very expensive. I would also say, maybe he doesn't really want the test and isn't related after all. I personally don't think he is. jmo

daniel green

12-02-2009, 03:17 PM

He can take a DNA test on his own and submit it to the court can't he? snipped

Sure, he could.

SayWhen

12-02-2009, 06:35 PM

Michael's 3 Kids Among Barbara's Most Fascinating People

December 02, 2009

"We’ve just learned of three more people who made this year’s list of Barbara Walters’ Most Fascinating People! And their names are Paris Jackson, Prince Michael Jackson, and Blanket Jackson!

According to ABC, Michael Jackson’s children are on the list, but did not claim the number one spot. Barbara was also unable to interview the three children for the program, but the special will include a profile of the late singer’s children."

http://www.hollyscoop.com/michael-jackson/michaels-3-kids-among-barbaras-most-fascinating-people_22320.aspx

Hooray for Katherine that she didn't allow the interview with the kids. :thumbup:

SayWhen

12-02-2009, 06:38 PM

4 Jackson brothers reunite for A&E miniseries

NEW YORK — As the old saying goes, "If you like this kind of thing, you'll like this."

"Mirroring too many other celeb-reality shows that come pledging a personal glimpse at their subjects, "The Jacksons: A Family Dynasty" is stagey, self-conscious and, most of all, self-serving on the part of its participants."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i9klyzOUTvsucP4KesbDu7P0grbQD9CBDMGO2

Wow. NOT good press! :scared:

I'm so surprised. Not. :rolleyes:

LadyFuzz

12-02-2009, 08:18 PM

Wow. NOT good press! :scared:

I'm so surprised. Not. :rolleyes:

Oh, I guess I missed it. What a shame.:rolleyes:

SayWhen

12-02-2009, 10:50 PM

Oh, I guess I missed it. What a shame.:rolleyes:

It hasn't aired yet. You can still put it on your calendar. :seeya:

HolyMoly

12-03-2009, 11:53 AM

JACKSON BROTHERS DISMISS FAMILY FEUD

JERMAINE JACKSON has dismissed rumours of an ongoing feud between his famous siblings - insisting they have settled their differences since the tragic death of their beloved brother MICHAEL JACKSON.

http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/story/jackson-brothers-dismiss-family-feud_1124517

SayWhen

12-03-2009, 04:07 PM

Jermaine to Tiger - I Got Your Back
http://www.tmz.com/2009/12/03/jermaine-jackson-tiger-woods-affair-tito-video/

While leaving "Today" with brother Tito this morning, Jermaine was asked if Tiger could rebound from his alleged affair. His response: "He didn't do anything."

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

HolyMoly

12-03-2009, 04:16 PM

SayWhen

12-03-2009, 06:36 PM

To a muslim, like Jermaine, I imagine that Tiger is completely within his right to have multiple women.

Just another reason to love old Jermaine. :rolleyes:

who_is_it

12-03-2009, 10:57 PM

He can take a DNA test on his own and submit it to the court can't he? I mean, of course, if he is the biological child of Jackson. I guess the sticking point is he wants the estate to pay for the test since the tests are very expensive. I would also say, maybe he doesn't really want the test and isn't related after all. I personally don't think he is. jmo

No, LadyFuzz, dna tests have become super cheap. In Europe they're meanwhile just about 200 euros. About 10 years ago dna tests ordered by court were about 3000 euros.

daniel green

12-04-2009, 12:25 AM

E! is running an interesting 1-hr show about MJ's last day.

SayWhen

12-04-2009, 06:20 PM

Nah -- nothing to do with being a Muslim. What can we expect from someone who cheated with his own brother's wife. JMO

Yeah, that too. Ick.

HolyMoly

12-06-2009, 12:27 AM

December 04, 2009

Medical board question: Is Jackson doctor threat to patients?

When Dr. Conrad Murray, the Houston cardiologist at the center of the investigation into Michael Jackson's death, resumed seeing patients in Acres Homes last week, the question on many minds was, Should he be able to practice?

More:

http://blogs.chron.com/medblog/archives/2009/12/public_waits_fo.html

who_is_it

12-06-2009, 08:42 PM

Michael Jackson bumps Britney Spears from top Yahoo '09 searches

http://www.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUSTRE5B03OG20091201

Michael Jackson, Facebook Top Google Searches

"(...) The late king of pop, Michael Jackson, unsurprisingly topped the [google search] list, much like Microsoft's Bing results, released earlier this week."

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2356490,00.asp

who_is_it

12-06-2009, 09:02 PM

Eminem Talks “Relapse 2″ and Admits He Relates to Michael Jackson in New Interview

"Eminem also found similarities between the depths of his own addiction and the death of Michael Jackson. Eminem’s reliance on prescription medicine is well-documented throughout Relapse — he blames his Vicodin addiction for his massive weight gain during the hiatus — and says being a celebrity with the amount of fame Jackson had could be fatal. “I definitely can relate, and it’s a shame if he didn’t have anybody there to just say, ‘Michael, you’re an addict, you need help,’” says Em, who famously poked fun of Jackson in his 2004 video for “Just Lose It.” “It’s one of the pitfalls of fame.""

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2009/12/02/eminem-talks-relapse-2-and-admits-he-relates-to-michael-jackson-in-new-interview/

I've only read now about the video in 2004 because back then I wasn't a Michael Jackson yet. Michael Jackson himself called radio stations to say how he appalled he feels.

Eminem is a hypocrite imo. Now he "relates" to Michael, back then he (imo) contributed to his early death by public mockery.

Cindylee

12-06-2009, 09:34 PM

Not really on topic....but I watch The X Factor on the computer, and they had MJ songs this week......and I just love this kid, and this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FpqdqyyNsw

EvilEyeBall

12-07-2009, 12:00 PM

But what for? A fashionable gimmick? Or did it fulfill any purpose (for example that he could better hold the mic)?

I think it was to cover his nail beds...the bleach couldn't reach those.

HolyMoly

12-07-2009, 12:17 PM

I think it was to cover his nail beds...the bleach couldn't reach those.

Actually it was so the entire audience, no matter where seated could see and experience the "glint" of his fingertips. I read that.
:thumbup: <---glint of thumb

HolyMoly

12-07-2009, 12:29 PM

Music supervisor Michael Bearden revealed the reason MJ used to tape his fingertips before concerts. "That was one of the things I asked him," Bearden said. "And he said, 'Because it feels good.' And then when he throws his hand a certain way, the white catches your eye. So if you're doing that" — [shoots his hand into the air, à la MJ] — "automatically, you're gonna look right there. It's just a show thing."

http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1624941/20091027/story.jhtml

EvilEyeBall

12-07-2009, 01:42 PM

Actually it was so the entire audience, no matter where seated could see and experience the "glint" of his fingertips. I read that.
:thumbup: <---glint of thumb

some people will believe anything...eyeroll....

He taped them up for interviews too. He thought his nail beds & dark cuticles looked ugly. imo

HolyMoly

12-07-2009, 01:57 PM

some people will believe anything...eyeroll....

He taped them up for interviews too. He thought his nail beds & dark cuticles looked ugly. imo

So I guess you think because the bleach couldn't reach there is more believable? Or that only 3 of his fingers were affected, and only some of the time?
:rolleyes:

Firehead11

12-07-2009, 01:58 PM

some people will believe anything...eyeroll....

snipped

Some people believe that their opinion is always right even when a link states differently. :confused:

HolyMoly

12-07-2009, 03:33 PM

Not long after Michael Jackson supposedly died from an overdose of propofol in combination with other drugs Teva Pharmaceutical Industries Ltd. recalled batches of propofol (there are specific lot numbers on each bottle of propofol’s label)

http://mike-newsmichaeljackson.blogspot.com/2009/12/propofol-murder-plot-death-hoax-part-2.html

I never heard this before.

SayWhen

12-07-2009, 06:19 PM

Unperson1984

12-07-2009, 10:12 PM

Xenam

12-07-2009, 10:19 PM

Honestly I love that picture. However, I'm probably not looking at it as others may according to that article. Don't know how they can come to the conclusion that all of the children are male either :confused:

I have pictures of the cherub angels but mostly with poems in the center, of course MJ is not in them, but I sincerely like it.

HolyMoly

12-07-2009, 10:23 PM

Interesting painting, I wonder what the others look like.

http://www.popeater.com/2009/12/07/michael-jackson-painting/?icid=main|htmlws-main-n|dl2|link4|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.popeater.com%2F2009%2 F12%2F07%2Fmichael-jackson-painting%2F

From your link:

No matter how the press or fans view the paintings, Halperin says people shouldn't start reaching for analogies with the painting.

"I firmly stand by what I wrote in my bestseller last summer that in no shape or form was Michael a child molester. He was a victim of ruthless attempts to extort him out of the fortune he worked relentlessly over the years to amass," Halperin says about the painting and how some may construe it.

I agree.

HolyMoly

12-07-2009, 10:25 PM

Xenam

12-07-2009, 10:26 PM

Michael Jackson's Personal Artist Shared Pop King's Vision
Painting for Jackson, David Nordahl Discovered the Real Person Behind the Star

Artist David Nordahl

Many canvases encapsulate Jackson's grandiose fantasies and fairy-tale worldview. In a massive triptych, he is crowned and knighted in royal robes. Along the sunlit path in "Field of Dreams," he leads children of all nationalities (plus sister Janet, AIDS activist Ryan White and actor Macaulay Culkin). His firstborn son snoozes on an oversized golden throne in "Prince, The Boy King."

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/story?id=8385630

Xenam

12-07-2009, 10:28 PM

I like it too!

Wish I could afford to buy it !!!

HolyMoly

12-07-2009, 10:57 PM

Unperson1984

12-07-2009, 11:19 PM

Unperson1984

12-07-2009, 11:24 PM

I like it too!

I think having yourself painted as a Devine figure is tasteless, very egoistical and bordering on blasphemous. Especially replacing Jesus Christ with his own likeness.

It's just wrong in my opinion.

HolyMoly

12-07-2009, 11:40 PM

I think having yourself painted as a Devine figure is tasteless, very egoistical and bordering on blasphemous. Especially replacing Jesus Christ with his own likeness.

It's just wrong in my opinion.

I respect your opinion of course, but mine is different. MJ spent his hard earned money on the commission of a painting, not intended for the public. I really don't think Jesus would be offended by it either. I believe MJ was closer to God than most, and was judged by God for all the good he tried to do in the world, rather than his taste in art.

I think the artist got it right with his impression of Michael as a person, as stated in the article.

Unperson1984

12-07-2009, 11:53 PM

I respect your opinion of course, but mine is different. MJ spent his hard earned money on the commission of a painting, not intended for the public. I really don't think Jesus would be offended by it either. I believe MJ was closer to God than most, and was judged by God for all the good he tried to do in the world, rather than his taste in art.

I think the artist got it right with his impression of Michael as a person, as stated in the article.

I would never presume to know what Jesus Christ thinks or be offended by, nor assume someone is closer to God than others may be or how any person will be judged by God.

But's it's certainly you're right to do so if you think it appropriate.

HolyMoly

12-08-2009, 12:06 AM

snipped

But's it's certainly you're right to do so if you think it appropriate.

Thank you, I do.

Cindylee

12-08-2009, 12:26 AM

HolyMoly

12-08-2009, 12:31 AM

I agree with you. The other thing I found odd is that all but one of the cherubs are white, as is MJ. :shrug:

Many canvases encapsulate Jackson's grandiose fantasies and fairy-tale worldview. In a massive triptych, he is crowned and knighted in royal robes. Along the sunlit path in "Field of Dreams," he leads children of all nationalities (plus sister Janet, AIDS activist Ryan White and actor Macaulay Culkin). His firstborn son snoozes on an oversized golden throne in "Prince, The Boy King

Unperson1984

12-08-2009, 01:26 AM

I agree with you. The other thing I found odd is that all but one of the cherubs are white, as is MJ. :shrug:

I think MJ viewed himself as white.

IMO

daniel green

12-08-2009, 01:30 AM

Cindylee

12-08-2009, 01:36 AM

Many canvases encapsulate Jackson's grandiose fantasies and fairy-tale worldview. In a massive triptych, he is crowned and knighted in royal robes. Along the sunlit path in "Field of Dreams," he leads children of all nationalities (plus sister Janet, AIDS activist Ryan White and actor Macaulay Culkin). His firstborn son snoozes on an oversized golden throne in "Prince, The Boy King

Grandiose is a good way to describe MJ. IMO Egotistical is another.

HolyMoly

12-08-2009, 11:03 AM

Grandiose is a good way to describe MJ. IMO Egotistical is another.

Great humanitarian who loved and helped people of ALL color would be another.

And also... the people who knew him described him as humble, kind, and gentle.

The people who rely on tabloids to think for them have never seen him for the man he was.

Cindylee

12-08-2009, 11:14 AM

Great humanitarian who loved and helped people of ALL color would be another.

And also... the people who knew him described him as humble, kind, and gentle.

The people who rely on tabloids to think for them have never seen him for the man he was.

I am relying on the paintings that he had in his home. Being knighted, being portrayed as Jesus, etc., that sort of thing makes me think he thought pretty darn highly of himself. I am not talking about how others saw him. I am talking about how he saw himself.

HolyMoly

12-08-2009, 11:19 AM

I am relying on the paintings that he had in his home. Being knighted, being portrayed as Jesus, etc., that sort of thing makes me think he thought pretty darn highly of himself. I am not talking about how others saw him. I am talking about how he saw himself.

Do you judge everybody based upon the paintings they have in their home?

Cindylee

12-08-2009, 11:52 AM

Do you judge everybody based upon the paintings they have in their home?

Paintings, decor say a lot about a person. I wouldn't say judging, but yes, you can tell what is important to a person, how they feel and think by what is on their walls, in their homes. Unless a decorator comes in with no impute from the home owner, a house tells a story.

HolyMoly

12-08-2009, 12:10 PM

Unperson1984

12-08-2009, 12:55 PM

Paintings, decor say a lot about a person. I wouldn't say judging, but yes, you can tell what is important to a person, how they feel and think by what is on their walls, in their homes. Unless a decorator comes in with no impute from the home owner, a house tells a story.

These are paintings MJ commissioned and they speak volumes about how he viewed himself and how he wanted the public to see him.

True humanitarians are altruistic, not egomaniacs who use good acts to seek public adoration.

IMO

HolyMoly

12-08-2009, 01:10 PM

These are paintings MJ commissioned and they speak volumes about how he viewed himself and how he wanted the public to see him.

True humanitarians are altruistic, not egomaniacs who use good acts to seek public adoration.

IMO

I'd bet that you can't name one tenth of the charities he supported, because he NEVER used his generousity as a means to garner public adoration. Even when the public turned on him, ridiculed him, and berated him, he continued to give and give. He did it from the heart and for no other reason. Even after the barbaric treatment of him, his final message to us was to love each other and to heal the world.

The paintings he commissioned were never intended for public viewing, so your argument is flawed. He was well versed in art, and he loved art. All of us should have the right to enjoy art according to how we see it, and he did just that.

Cindylee

12-08-2009, 01:13 PM

But you have never seen his house. You have seen one painting.
:confused:

I have seen many pictures of MJ collections. And many of his paintings. Many were shown during the Neverland raid.

Cindylee

12-08-2009, 01:16 PM

I'd bet that you can't name one tenth of the charities he supported, because he NEVER used his generousity as a means to garner public adoration. Even when the public turned on him, ridiculed him, and berated him, he continued to give and give. He did it from the heart and for no other reason. Even after the barbaric treatment of him, his final message to us was to love each other and to heal the world.

The paintings he commissioned were never intended for public viewing, so your argument is flawed. He was well versed in art, and he loved art. All of us should have the right to enjoy art according to how we see it, and he did just that.

Whether they were intended for public viewing or not, they say a lot about how he viewed himself, or wished himself to be. IMO

HolyMoly

12-08-2009, 01:21 PM

I have seen many pictures of MJ collections. And many of his paintings. Many were shown during the Neverland raid.

Right... and what was shown, was shown by the media, who has consistently showed him in the worst light possible, and not even close to the truth. He also had beautiful antique furniture, yet not much reporting on that.

Cindylee

12-08-2009, 01:25 PM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/6754566/Michael-Jackson-on-horseback-portrait-sells-at-auction.html

http://shadesofredd.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/mj_sword_quote.jpg

Cindylee

12-08-2009, 01:27 PM

Right... and what was shown, was shown by the media, who has consistently showed him in the worst light possible, and not even close to the truth. He also had beautiful antique furniture, yet not much reporting on that.

Actually I looked through the auction books. He had many beautiful things. It was his commissioned paintings we were discussing.

daniel green

12-08-2009, 01:50 PM

These are paintings MJ commissioned and they speak volumes about how he viewed himself and how he wanted the public to see him.

True humanitarians are altruistic, not egomaniacs who use good acts to seek public adoration.

IMO

No kidding.

Or to get in, of all things, the Guinness Book of Records. :rolleyes:

Those paintings do say a lot about him. Since we saw those from NL, wow.

LadyFuzz

12-08-2009, 02:10 PM

No kidding.

Or to get in, of all things, the Guinness Book of Records. :rolleyes:

Those paintings do say a lot about him. Since we saw those from NL, wow.

Absolutely! That one with the little boy angels flitting about him left me speechless.

who_is_it

12-08-2009, 04:01 PM

These are paintings MJ commissioned and they speak volumes about how he viewed himself and how he wanted the public to see him.

True humanitarians are altruistic, not egomaniacs who use good acts to seek public adoration.

IMO

Didn't follow the whole discussion but I think I know about which picture(s) it is about.

We don't know if ALL the pictures were this way or if they've chosen to publish the picture (of the series with many different pictures) which causes most controversy.

HolyMoly

12-08-2009, 04:06 PM

Absolutely! That one with the little boy angels flitting about him left me speechless.

Art History 101:

The putto (pl. putti) is a figure of a human baby or toddler, almost always male, often naked and having wings, found especially in Italian Renaissance and Baroque art. The figure derives from ancient art but was rediscovered in the early Quattrocento. Strictly, putti are distinct from cherubim, but modern English usage has blurred the distinction, except that in the plural, "the Cherubim" refers to the literal biblical angels, while "cherubs" is used more often to refer to the childlike representations (putti) or in figurative senses.

Putti, cupids, and angels can be found in both religious and secular art from the 1420s in Italy, the turn of the 16th century in the Netherlands and Germany, the Mannerist period and late Renaissance in France, and throughout Baroque ceiling frescoes. So many artists have depicted them that a list would be pointless, but among the best-known are the sculptor Donatello and the painter Raphael. The two relaxed and curious putti who appear at the foot of Raphael's Sistine Madonna are often reproduced.

They also experienced a major revival in the 19th century, where they gamboled through paintings by French academic painters, from Gustave Doré’s illustrations for Orlando Furioso to advertisements.

In the twentieth century, putti appeared in Walt Disney's Fantasia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putto#Where_to_find_putti

HolyMoly

12-08-2009, 04:10 PM

No kidding.

Or to get in, of all things, the Guinness Book of Records. :rolleyes:

Those paintings do say a lot about him. Since we saw those from NL, wow.

Yes, it says that he was a lover of fine art, specifically Renaissance and Baroque. Perhaps he was more cultured than you are accustomed to.

HolyMoly

12-08-2009, 04:35 PM

OMG Hot Flash!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSkQsTZfGS4

Those little clip on fans are on sale at Walgreens in case you are interested.

:wink:

Cindylee

12-08-2009, 05:20 PM

Yes, it says that he was a lover of fine art, specifically Renaissance and Baroque. Perhaps he was more cultured than you are accustomed to.

The fact that he had the artist put MJ himself in the position of Jesus, a King, a knight, Peter Pan, Superhero....just says a lot to me about MJ. He did have many beautiful paintings, but I am talking about the ones he himself commissioned of himself in these roles.

HolyMoly

12-08-2009, 05:39 PM

The fact that he had the artist put MJ himself in the position of Jesus, a King, a knight, Peter Pan, Superhero....just says a lot to me about MJ. He did have many beautiful paintings, but I am talking about the ones he himself commissioned of himself in these roles.

He was a unique individual for sure. But there is much more to Michael the person, than just his taste in art.

who_is_it

12-08-2009, 08:12 PM

The fact that he had the artist put MJ himself in the position of Jesus, a King, a knight, Peter Pan, Superhero....just says a lot to me about MJ. He did have many beautiful paintings, but I am talking about the ones he himself commissioned of himself in these roles.

MJ talked a lot about religion. Maybe his belief was his music fulfills a religious purpose in his life: a message of love in many ways. He tried to unite people, his message of "This is it" was to save the planet.

who_is_it

12-08-2009, 08:18 PM

They all look gender neutral to me.

:shrug:

That's exactly what I thought, too: gender neutral.

who_is_it

12-08-2009, 08:22 PM

I think MJ viewed himself as white.

IMO

No matter what the reason was -- vitiligo or skin bleaching in what some of the posters believe -- MJ had white skin during the last decades of his life. The artist painted his portray how he looked like.

who_is_it

12-08-2009, 08:31 PM

Idealized Jackson portrait sells for 175,000 dollars: gallery

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gH64F6sHAuJRUJiR3g5SCvxx8XLw
copyright AFP

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/slideshow/ALeqM5gH64F6sHAuJRUJiR3g5SCvxx8XLw?index=0&ned=us
painting zoomed

The painting "Equestrian Portrait of King Philip II" which shows MJ on a horseback has been sold to a German collector for US $ 175,000.

HolyMoly

12-08-2009, 09:03 PM

MJ talked a lot about religion. Maybe his belief was his music fulfills a religious purpose in his life: a message of love in many ways. He tried to unite people, his message of "This is it" was to save the planet.

This is a very nice post Who Is It, and I completely agree with you.
:smile:

HolyMoly

12-08-2009, 09:26 PM

I'm watching Larry King and he is interviewing the Jackson brothers. About the private funeral, they say that it will remain private, and not be a part of the new reality show. Also, Joe will not be on the show. And Randy is absent from tonight's LKL and will be absent from the reality show.

Is anybody else watching it?

Firehead11

12-09-2009, 08:48 AM

Xenam

12-09-2009, 12:38 PM

http://www.tmz.com/2009/12/09/michael-jackson-kids-prince-thanksgiving-the-palms-hotel-basketball/

This really bothers me. I find it hard to believe that Michaels kids are into basketball. Is Michael's children now paying for the entertainment of the grandchildren? 25 grand a night?....................running that tab up a little bit? Is someone planning on asking for more money for the support of Michael's children?

I think Branca needs to be giving the family a good talk right about now. Sounds like Joe J all the way. This is just nuts. :cursing:

Firehead11

12-09-2009, 03:09 PM

I think Branca needs to be giving the family a good talk right about now. Sounds like Joe J all the way. This is just nuts. :cursing:

I certainly hope he talks to someone real soon. Looks like Michael's children are going to be used just as their father was. Makes me sick.

HolyMoly

12-09-2009, 03:27 PM

I certainly hope he talks to someone real soon. Looks like Michael's children are going to be used just as their father was. Makes me sick.

If I am remembering correctly, I think they have a court date scheduled for tomorrow.

who_is_it

12-09-2009, 07:24 PM

http://www.tmz.com/2009/12/09/michael-jackson-kids-prince-thanksgiving-the-palms-hotel-basketball/

This really bothers me. I find it hard to believe that Michaels kids are into basketball. Is Michael's children now paying for the entertainment of the grandchildren? 25 grand a night?....................running that tab up a little bit? Is someone planning on asking for more money for the support of Michael's children?

Not sure about it... but I think Mike was into basketball (and if he was the children could have developed an interest, too).

I believe Michael was interested in basketball because of the video "Jam":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QGM-MNhj7c

EvilEyeBall

12-10-2009, 10:45 AM

HolyMoly

12-10-2009, 04:07 PM

Michael Jackson To Get Lifetime Achievement Grammy

December 10, 2009

The Recording Academy will honor a number of artists with Special Merit Awards as part of the upcoming Grammy celebration. This year's Lifetime Achievement Award honorees will be Michael Jackson, Leonard Cohen, Bobby Darin, David "Honeyboy" Edwards, Loretta Lynn, André Previn and Clark Terry. Additionally, this year's Trustees Award honorees are Harold Bradley, Florence Greenberg and Walter C. Miller; and AKG and Thomas Alva Edison are this year's Technical Grammy Award honorees. The Grammys will be handed out on January 31 and will air live on CBS.

http://www.fmqb.com/article.asp?id=1622196

HolyMoly

12-10-2009, 04:44 PM

Unperson1984

12-10-2009, 06:12 PM

What in the hell is the GAL saying about all the money being used? Branca's job is to administer the Estate, but the sole duty of the GAL is to protect the interest of MJ's three children.

:angry:

HolyMoly

12-10-2009, 06:18 PM

Judge Delays Joe Jackson’s Request for Money from Son’s Estate

Michael Jackson’s father will have to wait until next month before a judge decides if he will get a monthly allowance from the pop star’s estate.

Joe Jackson — who was not included in his son’s will — is asking for as much as $20,000 a month.

At a hearing Thursday, Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Mitchell Beckloff delayed arguments until January 28, 2010, because not all of the lawyers involved had been notified.
Beckloff also threw out a petition by a British woman who claims she was married to Michael Jackson when he died and is the mother of his three children.

Beckloff told Nona Paris Lola Jackson — who was on the phone from England — her petition claiming the rights to Jackson’s estate was “replete with deficiencies.”

“You have no evidence you were married to Mr. Jackson,” Beckloff said.

Her legal efforts to claim Jackson’s children as her own began three years ago, but she filed her probate claim soon after his death last summer.

Billie Jean Jackson — another woman claiming to be the mother of Jackson’s children — was also in court, but her long-standing claim was not heard.

The estate executors have not filed any objections to Joe Jackson’s request for a monthly allowance, although lead lawyer Howard Weitzman did not rule out the possibility it would be contested.

http://www.stylemagazine.com/2009/12/judge-delays-joe-jacksons-request-for-money-from-sons-estate/

Firehead11

12-10-2009, 06:41 PM

Judge hears Joe Jackson's request for monthly allowance

A judge could decide Thursday if Michael Jackson's father -- who was not included in the pop star's will -- should get a monthly allowance from his estate.

The lead lawyer for the estate executors has said they would not oppose an allowance for Joe Jackson as long as his wife, who is a beneficiary, agrees.

Katherine Jackson, 79, supports her husband's request for a monthly allowance, her probate lawyer, Adam Streisand, said.

Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Mitchell Beckloff set Thursday morning for a hearing on Joe Jackson's request.

His petition said the 81-year-old patriarch of the Jackson family has been financially dependent on Michael Jackson for years. It estimated his monthly expenses total $15,000.

Jermaine Jackson said it was ridiculous that his father even had to ask.

"That shouldn't even be," Jermaine Jackson told CNN. "The fact is my father is the estate. He created the estate."http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/12/10/jackson.estate/

Maybe we all should write to this judge..... Michael's wishes are being disregarded because some are to damn lazy to work. JJ had a stroke, years ago and by the looks of all of his traveling that stroke hasn't stopped him.

If Jermaine feels this strongly about this maybe he should take his familieS out of the Encino compound, move in with his father and let him support that household instead of Michal's children. This would bring the total up to 100,000 grand a month coming out of the children's inhertience.

That is totally insane (bolded part). Jermaine thinks JJ IS THE ESTATE ? Holy Moly.................By beating Michael? Let JJ's remaining children support his arse and leave the Michale Jackson estate ALONE.

HolyMoly

12-10-2009, 07:20 PM

Who is the GAL?

An attorney assigned to represent the children.

Unperson1984

12-10-2009, 07:23 PM

Who is the GAL?

The Guardian ad Litem appointed by the Court to represent the children in all matters related to MJ's Estate. In this case Attorney Margaret Lodise was appointed.

Unperson1984

12-10-2009, 07:35 PM

Maybe we all should write to this judge..... Michael's wishes are being disregarded because some are to damn lazy to work. JJ had a stroke, years ago and by the looks of all of his traveling that stroke hasn't stopped him.

If Jermaine feels this strongly about this maybe he should take his familieS out of the Encino compound, move in with his father and let him support that household instead of Michal's children. This would bring the total up to 100,000 grand a month coming out of the children's inhertience.

That is totally insane (bolded part). Jermaine thinks JJ IS THE ESTATE ? Holy Moly.................By beating Michael? Let JJ's remaining children support his arse and leave the Michale Jackson estate ALONE.

I agree. Jermaine's statement makes it sound as though the Jackson's consider MJ's Estate as belonging to the entire family, despite the Will.

The GAL should be filing objections to all serious deviations from MJ's expressed wishes and any use of the children's inheritance to support other family members.

Firehead11

12-11-2009, 06:10 AM

Xenam

12-11-2009, 11:10 AM

What in the hell is the GAL saying about all the money being used? Branca's job is to administer the Estate, but the sole duty of the GAL is to protect the interest of MJ's three children.

:angry:

Unp... I am presuming he/she would be at any court hearings re: the estate. Is this correct? Also if that $25,000 for that hotel suite came out of the estate (which I also presume it did) wouldn't Branca have had to approve the expense? How the heck are they getting away with this? MJ apparently knew exactly what he was doing when he charged Branca et al the executors. :confused: and :angry:

Xenam

12-11-2009, 11:12 AM

http://sports.rightpundits.com/?p=3650

Friday, December 11th, 2009 at 1:22 am
Michael Jackson Brothers Tour
By Jen

Michael Jackson brothers are set to tour come 2010. They have announced their plans and the fans seem excited about it! Read more here and check out photos and video!

This is NOT a concert I will be attending. IMO, Michael is the one that made the Jackson5............ I have no interest in seeing the Jackson4.

I so agree. Was only a J5 fan up to the point when MJ left. I also like Janet and have attended one concert of hers in NY about 10 or so years ago. I never managed to get tickets to see MJ. :( JMO

HolyMoly

12-11-2009, 12:32 PM

Unp... I am presuming he/she would be at any court hearings re: the estate. Is this correct? Also if that $25,000 for that hotel suite came out of the estate (which I also presume it did) wouldn't Branca have had to approve the expense? How the heck are they getting away with this? MJ apparently knew exactly what he was doing when he charged Branca et al the executors. :confused: and :angry:

From the article I posted above:

At a hearing Thursday, Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Mitchell Beckloff delayed arguments until January 28, 2010, because not all of the lawyers involved had been notified.

Maybe its the GAL who wasn't notified.

Xenam

12-11-2009, 01:26 PM

Judge hears Joe Jackson's request for monthly allowance

<snip>

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/12/10/jackson.estate/

Thanks HM for the update above :)

Sheesh -- did you read this from your link above: I cannot believe the comments they made about KJ. Apparently she felt the executors should handle the estate but JJ and Jermaine disagree. Unbelievable - freeloaders!! I have no doubt that Janet discussed the estate with her mom. JMO

"Katherine Jackson, who had engaged in a bitter challenge of her own against Branca and McClain, dropped her opposition at a hearing last month. It was a surprise to her husband's lawyer, who was in court to launch Joe Jackson's challenge.

"She has now reneged on her obligation to her family," Oxman told the judge. Oxman said Katherine Jackson's reversal was "one of the most despicable displays" he's ever seen in court.

Oxman accused Katherine Jackson of reaching a secret deal with the men who control their son's estate.

Her lawyer fired back.

"That is not only baseless, but just a product of Mr. Oxman's imagination," Streisand said.

There was no deal and it was a surprise to the estate lawyers, he said."

Cindylee

12-11-2009, 07:14 PM

Thanks HM for the update above :)

Sheesh -- did you read this from your link above: I cannot believe the comments they made about KJ. Apparently she felt the executors should handle the estate but JJ and Jermaine disagree. Unbelievable - freeloaders!! I have no doubt that Janet discussed the estate with her mom. JMO

"Katherine Jackson, who had engaged in a bitter challenge of her own against Branca and McClain, dropped her opposition at a hearing last month. It was a surprise to her husband's lawyer, who was in court to launch Joe Jackson's challenge.

"She has now reneged on her obligation to her family," Oxman told the judge. Oxman said Katherine Jackson's reversal was "one of the most despicable displays" he's ever seen in court.

Oxman accused Katherine Jackson of reaching a secret deal with the men who control their son's estate.

Her lawyer fired back.

"That is not only baseless, but just a product of Mr. Oxman's imagination," Streisand said.

There was no deal and it was a surprise to the estate lawyers, he said."

That Mr. Oxman and JJ are pieces of work. Why don't they read the will. JJ is not in it.

HolyMoly

12-11-2009, 07:29 PM

Wrap Up Urged Of Jackson Funeral Cost Probe

"The Los Angeles City Council is urging the city attorney's office to quickly conclude its investigation into the $3.2 million in costs incurred by the city for the Michael Jackson memorial service."

LAPD should adopt this attitude, so it doesn't look like the city of Los Angeles is more concerned about money rather than the homicide of one of it's residents.

imo...of course.

HolyMoly

12-11-2009, 07:46 PM

HolyMoly

12-11-2009, 08:55 PM

Is your siggy song lyrics?

Yes! Michael Jackson's "Morphine" song.

HolyMoly

12-12-2009, 08:49 PM

Thought it sounded like an ode to drugs.

Perhaps. Or perhaps an ode to unethical doctors who administer and provide drugs for financial gain.

HolyMoly

12-12-2009, 09:44 PM

What's the difference?

In this case the difference is suicide vs. accident vs. homicide.

In general the difference (at least to me) is a drug such as morphine has many benefits in given situations. So morphine, in and of itself, is something good. It (and other drugs) become something bad when its misused, abused...etc.

So the "ode" depending on how you look at it can have different meanings. The words of a doctor who is using his skills administering drugs to heal, or the words of a doctor using his skills administering drugs to kill.

imo...of course.

SayWhen

12-12-2009, 10:20 PM

In this case the difference is suicide vs. accident vs. homicide.

In general the difference (at least to me) is a drug such as morphine has many benefits in given situations. So morphine, in and of itself, is something good. It (and other drugs) become something bad when its misused, abused...etc.

So the "ode" depending on how you look at it can have different meanings. The words of a doctor who is using his skills administering drugs to heal, or the words of a doctor using his skills administering drugs to kill.

imo...of course.

I think you'll be interested in this (it includes the full set of lyrics to the Morphine song, too): http://twistedmysterywriter.com/x_Criminal_02_MichaelJacksonMurder.html. If the link by chance takes you to the main page, just click in until you see the table of contents-looking thing and scroll down to the bottom to get to the link for the MJ page.

Warning to anyone who visits the link: His/her language is rough, so if you click around, be prepared. If you're easily offended, you should probably skip it. :smile:

HolyMoly

12-12-2009, 10:43 PM

Thank you SayWhen!

I think it is interesting, especially how different people can see things completely differently, or even more interesting, is for people to see some things the same, in something they see completely differently.

I knew I had a different idea on things after reading the title:

Deviants and other disfunction

haha- but I read it anyway. :laugh:

HolyMoly

12-12-2009, 11:00 PM

But it's not the words of a dr., it's the words of a singer/drug addict.

Its the words of MJ, who I believe is converying a doctor speaking to his patient right before the doctor brings him under.

~Relax~ This won't hurt you.
Before I put it in, close your eyes and count to ten.
There's no need to dismay. Close your eyes and drift away.

These are the words of a doctor, perhaps seen through the eyes of an addict.

Another song I love is similiar. Pink Floyd's Comfortably Numb

Hello?
Is there anybody in there?
Just nod if you can hear me.
Is there anyone at home?
Come on, now,
I hear you're feeling down.
Well I can ease your pain
Get you on your feet again.
Relax.
I'll need some information first.
Just the basic facts.
Can you show me where it hurts?

There is no pain you are receding
A distant ship, smoke on the horizon.
You are only coming through in waves.
Your lips move but I can't hear what you're saying.
When I was a child I had a fever
My hands felt just like two balloons.
Now I've got that feeling once again
I can't explain you would not understand
This is not how I am.
I have become comfortably numb.

O.K.
Just a little pinprick.
There'll be no more aaaaaaaaah!
But you may feel a little sick.
Can you stand up?
I do believe it's working, good.
That'll keep you going through the show
Come on it's time to go.

There is no pain you are receding
A distant ship, smoke on the horizon.
You are only coming through in waves.
Your lips move but I can't hear what you're saying.
When I was a child
I caught a fleeting glimpse
Out of the corner of my eye.
I turned to look but it was gone
I cannot put my finger on it now
The child is grown,
The dream is gone.
I have become comfortably numb.

According to Rolling Stone the lyrics came from Roger Waters' experience when he was injected with tranquillizers for stomach cramps by a doctor prior to playing a Pink Floyd show in Philadelphia on the band's 1977 tour for the Animals album. "That was the longest two hours of my life," Waters said. "Trying to do a show when you can hardly lift your arm." The experience gave him the idea which became the lyrics to this song.

As with the other songs on The Wall, "Comfortably Numb" tells a portion of a story about Pink, the album's protagonist. This song has to do with Pink's battle to handle the world. He is forced to turn to drugs to cope with his problems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfortably_Numb

I think this song relates to MJ even more than the Morphine song.

who_is_it

12-13-2009, 01:41 AM

http://sports.rightpundits.com/?p=3650

Friday, December 11th, 2009 at 1:22 am
Michael Jackson Brothers Tour
By Jen

Michael Jackson brothers are set to tour come 2010. They have announced their plans and the fans seem excited about it! Read more here and check out photos and video!

This is NOT a concert I will be attending. IMO, Michael is the one that made the Jackson5............ I have no interest in seeing the Jackson4.

I wouldn't attend it, either. Just another jump on the money train...

I don't watch the "Thriller" musical or any other impersonators, either.

I was just interested in Michael Jackson whom I've never seen in concert.

who_is_it

12-13-2009, 01:46 AM

Judge hears Joe Jackson's request for monthly allowance

A judge could decide Thursday if Michael Jackson's father -- who was not included in the pop star's will -- should get a monthly allowance from his estate.

The lead lawyer for the estate executors has said they would not oppose an allowance for Joe Jackson as long as his wife, who is a beneficiary, agrees.

Katherine Jackson, 79, supports her husband's request for a monthly allowance, her probate lawyer, Adam Streisand, said.

Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Mitchell Beckloff set Thursday morning for a hearing on Joe Jackson's request.

His petition said the 81-year-old patriarch of the Jackson family has been financially dependent on Michael Jackson for years. It estimated his monthly expenses total $15,000.

Jermaine Jackson said it was ridiculous that his father even had to ask.

"That shouldn't even be," Jermaine Jackson told CNN. "The fact is my father is the estate. He created the estate."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/12/10/jackson.estate/

Imo it wouldn't matter if Joe gets US $ 15,000 per month. He wasn't included in the will but I think Michael would be okay to give him this comparatively small amount of money, though. Or Katherine should give him some money. He's an old man. Nevertheless I disagree with Jermaine's statement.

Unperson1984

12-13-2009, 09:51 PM

Imo it wouldn't matter if Joe gets US $ 15,000 per month. He wasn't included in the will but I think Michael would be okay to give him this comparatively small amount of money, though. Or Katherine should give him some money. He's an old man. Nevertheless I disagree with Jermaine's statement.

I wouldn't say Joe wasn't included, rather I'd say he was excluded.

If you think it's alright to give him $180k a month, what's the purpose of leaving a will?

:confused:

Firehead11

12-14-2009, 06:42 AM

Imo it wouldn't matter if Joe gets US $ 15,000 per month. He wasn't included in the will but I think Michael would be okay to give him this comparatively small amount of money, though. Or Katherine should give him some money. He's an old man. Nevertheless I disagree with Jermaine's statement.

I am sorry, I do not agree with this. I think that Michael was looking to take care of his mother and the Encino compound. Joe stated that he was being supported through Katherine's money before Michael's death. I think it would be better if his other children supported the man and not the grandchildren.

Unperson1984

12-14-2009, 11:55 AM

I wouldn't say Joe wasn't included, rather I'd say he was excluded.

If you think it's alright to give him $180k a month, what's the purpose of leaving a will?

:confused:

I meant 180k a year.

:blushing:

Firehead11

12-14-2009, 12:46 PM

I meant 180k a year.

:blushing:

And here I thought you were being extremely generous to JJ.

:tongue:

HolyMoly

12-14-2009, 12:53 PM

Firehead11

12-14-2009, 01:04 PM

The law provides for his continued support by Michael's estate. That law does seem to conflict with the will. I believe Michael knew the money he gave to his Mom was being filtered to Joe, and he was okay with that. Hopefully the executors, together with the court, can come up with a solution. Although Michael left Joe out of the will, I don't believe he would wish his father to be destitute.

imo...of course.

I write a will, omitting someone from it, IMO, it means they get nothing from me. It doesn't mean that a court, who knows nothing about the reason why I excluded anyone in that will should have the right to change my final wishes.

What law are you talking about?

HolyMoly

12-14-2009, 01:11 PM

I write a will, omitting someone from it, IMO, it means they get nothing from me. It doesn't mean that a court, who knows nothing about the reason why I excluded anyone in that will should have the right to change my final wishes.

What law are you talking about?

I posted the law a while back. I will have to look for it later. Joe cites it in his papers, and thats why I believe he will get something. I don't necessarily believe he needs as much as he wants though. I'm not even saying I think he should or shouldn't get anything, but I think he will.

Cindylee

12-14-2009, 03:03 PM

I posted the law a while back. I will have to look for it later. Joe cites it in his papers, and thats why I believe he will get something. I don't necessarily believe he needs as much as he wants though. I'm not even saying I think he should or shouldn't get anything, but I think he will.

I think if Kathrine wants to support Joe with the monies she receives, that is her business, but I think the will is clear, Joe was left out.

Unperson1984

12-14-2009, 04:09 PM

HolyMoly

12-14-2009, 04:20 PM

Depends on if MJ gave support to Joe directly.

He didn't pay directly, but I believe in his papers he states that the arrangement to have the money go through Katherine was set up by Michael.

HolyMoly

12-14-2009, 04:21 PM

I think if Kathrine wants to support Joe with the monies she receives, that is her business, but I think the will is clear, Joe was left out.

Here is the applicable code:

PROBATE CODE
SECTION 6540-6545

6540. (a) The following are entitled to such reasonable family
allowance out of the estate as is necessary for their maintenance
according to their circumstances during administration of the estate:

(1) The surviving spouse of the decedent.
(2) Minor children of the decedent.
(3) Adult children of the decedent who are physically or mentally
incapacitated from earning a living and were actually dependent in
whole or in part upon the decedent for support.
(b) The following may be given such reasonable family allowance
out of the estate as the court in its discretion determines is
necessary for their maintenance according to their circumstances
during administration of the estate:
(1) Other adult children of the decedent who were actually
dependent in whole or in part upon the decedent for support.
(2) A parent of the decedent who was actually dependent in whole
or in part upon the decedent for support.
(c) If a person otherwise eligible for family allowance has a
reasonable maintenance from other sources and there are one or more
other persons entitled to a family allowance, the family allowance
shall be granted only to those who do not have a reasonable
maintenance from other sources.

who_is_it

12-14-2009, 06:24 PM

I wouldn't say Joe wasn't included, rather I'd say he was excluded.

If you think it's alright to give him $180k a month, what's the purpose of leaving a will?

:confused:

I didn't follow the discussion of Joe's lawsuit and what he actually demanded; therefore I don't know why you bring up US $ 180 k per month. Is this what he sues / sued for? In the article I've referred to were mentioned expenses of $ 15 k per month. That's not toooo much if you consider the wealth of the family.

who_is_it

12-14-2009, 06:30 PM

I am sorry, I do not agree with this. I think that Michael was looking to take care of his mother and the Encino compound. Joe stated that he was being supported through Katherine's money before Michael's death. I think it would be better if his other children supported the man and not the grandchildren.

You're right, it's actually his other children's duty to support him. Like I replied to the Unperson I don't know for how much he sues or sued. I just wanted to express by my original post that US $ 15,000 (= his expenses) per month wouldn't "ruin" the estate; for Mike's children considering their assets it's maybe like a cent for us.

Unperson1984

12-14-2009, 06:55 PM

Firehead11

12-14-2009, 08:08 PM

You're right, it's actually his other children's duty to support him. Like I replied to the Unperson I don't know for how much he sues or sued. I just wanted to express by my original post that US $ 15,000 (= his expenses) per month wouldn't "ruin" the estate; for Mike's children considering their assets it's maybe like a cent for us.

No it wouldn't ruin their inhertience but when you consider that someone paid 25 grand a night for a private Las Vegas room for Michael's children (basketball, link posted up thread) these amounts add up real fast. If you want to get down to brass tacks, Michael's children are now supporting everyone in the Encino home. It is their 60 grand a month that are paying the bills. Katherine's 20 grand isn't enough, remember she filed for more $$$$.

Do you know what I mean?

Hell look at what they have charged against the estate already. The funeral was estimated to be what amount. I am not talking about the Memorial Service that the city wants major bucks for.

Firehead11

12-14-2009, 08:12 PM

Here is the applicable code:

PROBATE CODE
SECTION 6540-6545

6540. (a) The following are entitled to such reasonable family
allowance out of the estate as is necessary for their maintenance
according to their circumstances during administration of the estate:

(1) The surviving spouse of the decedent.
(2) Minor children of the decedent.
(3) Adult children of the decedent who are physically or mentally
incapacitated from earning a living and were actually dependent in
whole or in part upon the decedent for support.
(b) The following may be given such reasonable family allowance
out of the estate as the court in its discretion determines is
necessary for their maintenance according to their circumstances
during administration of the estate:
(1) Other adult children of the decedent who were actually
dependent in whole or in part upon the decedent for support.
(2) A parent of the decedent who was actually dependent in whole
or in part upon the decedent for support.
(c) If a person otherwise eligible for family allowance has a
reasonable maintenance from other sources and there are one or more
other persons entitled to a family allowance, the family allowance
shall be granted only to those who do not have a reasonable
maintenance from other sources.

Thanks! I certainly hope that if Katherine wants to give him money out of her portion of the estate, she will. JJ was getting money through Katherine while Michael was alive. We do not know if Michael was aware of it or not. I think it is time for the other Jackson kids to step forward and take over paying their own bills and those of their father. Michael at his death, took care of his mother until the day she dies.

HolyMoly

12-14-2009, 10:24 PM

No it wouldn't ruin their inhertience but when you consider that someone paid 25 grand a night for a private Las Vegas room for Michael's children (basketball, link posted up thread) these amounts add up real fast. If you want to get down to brass tacks, Michael's children are now supporting everyone in the Encino home. It is their 60 grand a month that are paying the bills. Katherine's 20 grand isn't enough, remember she filed for more $$$$.

Do you know what I mean?

Hell look at what they have charged against the estate already. The funeral was estimated to be what amount. I am not talking about the Memorial Service that the city wants major bucks for.

I don't think thats exactly accurate. The children's portion of the estate is not being used to support the family. Katherine is beneficiary to 40 % of the estates value, which hasn't been determined or distributed. We don't know how the trust is written, as to how the assets will be distributed. If Katherines share is set up so that she receives the 40 percent outright, then whatever is left after taxes is hers to do with as she pleases, including supporting family members. Most likely its not set up that way, because of the tax implications, and then it is held in trust and distributed by the trustees. Either way, 40 percent of the estates value is significant, and not likely less than the allowance she currently receives. I don't think there is any possibility that the current allowance, or an increased allowance to support Joe, would exceed the value of her 40 percent share.

I found a tax blog which offers an in depth general analysis. Heres a portion of it:

A big deal has been made in the media that Michael Jackson put his mother in as a beneficiary but omitted his father. This is silly. Katherine and Joseph Jackson have been married for over 60 years. Joe Jackson does not technically have a right to his wife’s inheritance. However, in reality, they are a long time married couple who presumably share everything. Giving to his mother is not really leaving his father out in the cold.

In my previous post, I speculated that the published reports stating that Michael Jackson left 40% of his estate to his mother Katherine Jackson, 40% to his children and 20% to charities was not, could not be entirely accurate. Although I have not seen it the Michael Jackson Family Trust document, I am sure of the fact that instead of having the trustee distribute his assets to his mother and his children outright, that instead, the property was kept in trust. The three reasons I set forth were (1) the estate tax, (2) creditor protection, and (3) control.

In this post, I will discuss why anyone who has significant assets should leave their property to their relatives in trust, and the potential tax disaster that awaits them if they do not.

For the sake of simplicity, assume that Michael Jackson had a taxable estate, of two hundred million dollars ($200,000,000) and that he left half to his mother outright and half to be divided among his three children outright. I removed the charity to make the math more simple.

See his example here:

http://www.sofloridaestateplanning.com/articles/michael-jackson/