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daniel green
11-17-2009, 01:47 PM
Editor's note: David Frum, resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, was a special assistant to President George W. Bush in 2001-2002. He is the author of six books, including "Comeback: Conservatism That Can Win Again," and the editor of FrumForum.com

(CNN) -- The Republican fratricide in the Nov. 3 special election in upstate New York may prove just an opening round of an even more spectacular bloodbath in Florida in 2010.

In New York, Republican feuding lost the party a seat in the House of Representatives. At stake in Florida is not only a senatorship -- but very possibly Republican hopes for 2012 as well.

The battle in Florida pits Gov. Charlie Crist against former Speaker of the Florida House Marco Rubio. Both men claim to be conservative, pro-life, tax cutters. On the issues, they would seem to agree far more than they disagree.

But on one issue they have disagreed passionately: President Obama's fiscal stimulus. Squeezed by his state's desperate fiscal condition, Crist endorsed and campaigned for the Obama stimulus. Inspired by his conservative ideology, Rubio opposed stimulus.

Now Rubio is the darling of conservatives nationwide. Just this week it was announced that he would give the keynote address at next year's annual Conservative Political Action Conference in Washington. He has been profiled on the cover of National Review, endorsed by the Club for Growth, and feted by radio talk show hosts.

Crist -- who as recently as 2008 topped the libertarian Cato Institute's list of favorite governors -- has been consigned to pariah status. Here's the significance of the Florida contest: Every state except Vermont is legally required to balance its budget.

With revenues collapsing in 2008-2009, every Republican governor in the country eventually accepted federal funds. (The two most vociferous objectors -- Alaska's Sarah Palin and South Carolina's Mark Sanford -- were either physically or mentally checking out of their jobs.)

Are all these Republican leaders, including such outstanding figures as Mitch Daniels of Indiana and Haley Barbour of Mississippi, now disqualified for future races? But if every governor accepted stimulus dollars, few states were as hard hit by the 2008 economic crisis as Florida. State revenues collapsed by 11.5 percent between 2008 and 2009. Constitutionally obliged to balance the budget, Crist raised fees and cigarette taxes -- and still faced a huge budget gap.

Florida is a low-spending state. (New York, with an only slightly larger population, spends nearly twice as much.) Economies are not easily found. Constitutionally obliged to balance his budget, Crist welcomed President Obama's offer of federal stimulus dollars, and campaigned hard for passage of the emergency measure.

The final Obama plan granted Florida more than $15 billion over three years. That money averted radical cuts to schools and Medicaid. It saved the state from furloughing employees and raising taxes even higher. It has paid for emergency employment on roads and water projects. It has extended unemployment benefits for 700,000 Floridians -- and put an extra $25 per week in their relief packets.

Marco Rubio has fiercely denounced Crist's support for the Obama stimulus. His campaign ads show images of Crist and Obama side by side and damn the stimulus as "trillions in reckless spending" and a "terrible threat to a fragile economy."

Rubio's last term in the Florida House ended in January 2009, so he did not share responsibility for the state's fiscal crisis. But when asked by reporters what he would have done differently, Rubio has suggested that he would have refused the federal stimulus dollars and instead cut up to $6 billion out of the $65 billion state budget. When asked where precisely he would have found those savings, Rubio demurred: "I don't have the budget in front of me."

These answers have gained Rubio little traction among Florida voters, where he trails Crist badly in all demographic categories. Rubio even trails Crist by 10 points among Hispanics, despite his Cuban ancestry and fluent Spanish.

But Rubio's message of uncompromising, unremitting opposition to President Obama has won him an enthusiastic following among conservatives nationwide.

Rubio's national base is generating national dollars. Writing on FrumForum.com, the website I edit, Tim Mak reports that Crist has raised less than one-quarter of his money from outside Florida. More than one-third of Rubio's money has come from out of state. Only 13 percent of Crist's out-of-state dollars come from the Washington area, as compared to 22 percent of Rubio's.

The candidate who purports to speak for populist rage in fact turns out to be the candidate of a national political leadership. They used to have a saying in Tammany Hall: "It's better to lose an election than lose control of the party" -- and control of the party is precisely what is at stake in Florida 2010.

But here's the most important unasked question raised by the enthusiasm for Rubio among Washington conservatives: What alternative policy should have been adopted back in the spring, when interest rates had been cut to almost zero and the economy was still collapsing? Are vague bromides about big government anything like an adequate response to the worst economic crisis experienced by any American under age 80?

The great free-market economist Milton Friedman argued that the right policy in the 1930s was a bank rescue -- but the bank bailouts (begun under a Republican president, lest we forget) are even more unpopular among conservatives than Obama's stimulus.

A few days ago, I was talking to a roomful of young conservatives about the crisis. All agreed in denouncing both the bank bailouts done under TARP and the stimulus. I asked: OK fine -- what was the alternative?

There was a short pause, and then somebody laughed: "I guess it's lucky that we weren't in power."

That's not much of a motto for a would-be national governing coalition. If all we conservatives have to offer is oppositionism, then opposition is the job we'll be assigned to fill

http://www.cnn.com/2009/OPINION/11/15/frum.gop.florida.crist.rubio.battle/

snookums1
11-17-2009, 01:58 PM
The year 2008 really hit states hard. As the economy collapsed, so did their revenues, making a lot of them face collapse along with the economy. To down Crist for doing something to keep his state afloat is foolhardy. They should be patting him on the back instead.

daniel green
11-17-2009, 04:27 PM
The RW are going to purge themselves into non-viability.

IaNsSyAlNuE
11-17-2009, 04:39 PM
That is one man’s opinion and I guess yours. But the reason I am responding is do we have new rules regarding COPYRIGHT in this forum?

Last I heard it was on paragraph for copyrighted material and ZERO paragraphs for "all rights Reserved"

The OP's article is

© 2009 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.


So have the rules changed or are we to copy and paste the entire article now? :confused:

daniel green
11-17-2009, 04:43 PM
snipped

So have the rules changed or are we to copy and paste the entire article now? :confused:

The rules have always been that since CNN owns this board that we can post anything from them, including a whole piece.

IaNsSyAlNuE
11-17-2009, 04:58 PM
The rules have always been that since CNN owns this board that we can post anything from them, including a whole piece.

Makes no sense, as each owns their own copyrights. CNN, TBS and this board are all copyrighted under individual copyrights. I was not aware that copyrights transfer between at least three separate entities.

ShooFly
11-17-2009, 05:01 PM
After reading that, I wonder why the right worries about whether or not President Obama was respectful of the Chinese president. Seems trying to make their party viable ought to be a priority. Maybe that makes too much sense. That is what they should be dealing with instead of tripping over mole holes. jmo But, as far as I'm concerned, they can stay on their current path.:thumbsup:

daniel green
11-17-2009, 05:56 PM
Makes no sense, as each owns their own copyrights. snipped.

I follow CW's instructions.

fiver
11-17-2009, 06:37 PM
The RW are going to purge themselves into non-viability.
No they're not.

The LW on the other hand are well on their way.

Pat
11-18-2009, 01:47 PM
I have been reading, with much amusement, the opinions surrounding the Crist/Rubio issue being a "moderate" vs "conservative", the stimulus issue, and trying to tie a hug Crist gave the President to his "troubles". The media is having a field day with this, the Talking Heads are blowing steam, but no one has really bothered to ask the Floridians, who are furious at him, exactly what has gotten him in to trouble.

It wasn't the "hug", it wasn't the stimulus money and it isn't the "moderate" vs "conservative" tag everyone is trying to lable as causes.

Fact is, Crist isn't a "moderate Republican". He's a "Professional Politician" and will do what is politically best for Charlie Crist first, and the people of Florida second.

He made promises regarding the tremendous problems Floridians face getting homeowners insurance, said he wouldn't run for the Senate ("committed" to taking care of the State, you know), appointed a stand-in for himself when Mel Martinez quit, (a deal everyone is very well aware of), and has been very busy not trying to fulfill his promises to the voters because he's focused on positioning himself for his Senate run, with an eye on the White House. Pure political machinations.

And I voted for him!! :laugh: But I won't again. :sneaky:

I was new to Florida and didn't really know his history, liked the Dem who was running, but felt he was fiscally too free with money and took too much of a defeatist POV over the insurance problem. So I've watched Crist like a hawk.

Crist believed his own press about his importance when the media was breathlessly waiting to see who he'd endorse for the Republican presidential nomination, and declared him one of the "most important" Republicans with a "national" future. He was hoping whomever he endorsed would nominate him for VP.

He's been positioning himself for that "future" ever since, and Floridians are going to reward his efforts come election time.

I don't know who will win the Senate election...the Dem who wins the primary or Rubio. I just feel pretty darn sure it won't Crist, and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with him being a "moderate".

In my opinion, based on my Floridian viewpoint.

daniel green
11-18-2009, 02:04 PM
Earlier today, we reported that Florida Gov. Charlie Crist would not be attending the Republican Governors Association meeting here. But an RGA official tells First Read that he will be attending the confab, and will arrive here later tonight.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/11/18/2131050.aspx

Pat
11-18-2009, 02:30 PM
I forgot to add that, in true political behavior, when the President last visited Florida, there was a dust up over Crist saying he was "unaware" the President would be in Florida.

Turns out he lied, and the email notifying him turned up and made it into the papers. :laugh: His aide took the fall, was fired/resigned, depending on who you believe, and it is simply another day of bad press for Crist.

As exciting as it would be to paint the Crist/Rubio showdown as an epic struggle between conservatives and moderates that will result in this "bloodbath" that will "tear the party apart", that isn't what this is about.

The press can print what they like to try to convince outsiders this is something it isn't. What it is, is an indictment of a man who ran for governor with a platform of promises on issues important to Floridians, and not only failed to deliver, but used his power as governor to position himself for what he considers bigger and better things in Washington, D.C.

So I'd advise people trying to use this one particular race as an indictment of the Republican party to remember what David Axelrod was saying about the Dem's losses in the recent races in Virginia and New Jersey being an indictment of the present administration ...it ain't what it looks like! :laugh: